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[–]IgnanceIsBliss 29 points 6 months ago
Here is the problem with Tor. It helps with anonymity of traffic, but it doesnt promise privacy. Anonymity is not a substitute for it and can't be used as a means for security. Now, on top of that, there is something to be said about the entire premise of the internet being built on the foundation that two parties know who each other are (or assume to know). That's how the entire protocol works. To formulate a system using that same protocol and then claim that someone cant be identified is a bit of a stretch at best. Moving from strictly theoretical issue to practical ones I'll give tell you a couple things and let you do what you will with that information.
Tor can be used in conjunction with VPN to help parties have a hard time identifying who you are and what you are doing. The two are really accomplishing two separate things and have their own independent issues with each. One note on VPN's: several common VPN standards have already been compromised by the NSA as of a couple years ago (that I currently know of). The NSA also has basically unlimited storage of data, so if they have encrypted data that they don't know how to currently decrypt, they can keep this data for a couple years with the assumption that they will advance in technology enough to allow them to view this data eventually. With criminal cases often taking this long before any decision is reached, and with the exponential model of technology growth, this is a pretty safe assumption.
Tor itself also has several different means of attack against it. Everyone here keeps talking about compromised exit nodes, which is true and probably the most common attack. There are also other attacks as well though, such as attaching tags to packets in order to trace how they are routed. The most common way to get caught however, is through user error and bad opsec. Which, no offense, but if you're asking this question, then you probably already have compromised yourself via this method while being on tor networks if someone had enough reason to look into it. Now above all this, I have personally had confirmation from someone inside the NSA who says they have been able to find people on the Tor network for quite some time now (5 years or so).
Here is the real kicker though, I'm not sure who you are, but honestly, I dont think anyone cares enough about you to find out who you are. It does take a significant amount of time and money to find a person using some of these methods, assuming its just not a compromised node. Unless you are someone they are actually interested in, then no one is going to spend the time and effort to find you. Tor with a VPN would help you when it comes to individual entities (one specific person, maybe a group of people), who dont have the same time, money, manpower, resources etc., as the government. But if you do something big, for which the government has a real reason to find you, then they will. Maybe you can hide for a little while, or it may take a little while for them to pull together an investigation. But they will find you if they care enough.
permalinkpocket
[–]1337Sauron 5 points 6 months ago
I'll add to this, that no software can keep a human safe when he communicates. Your best bet when (I'm assuming you want to do attacks) "hacking" is never talk about it. Never share information, look at Anonymous and opAntiSec. They caught the lead guy Jeremy Hammond not through any networking. Nor did he brag, boast or really talk about it, despite the fact he attacked government sponsored security firms.
They caught him the way they catch seriel killers or dip dealers. They got an informant, and hit up IRC. Now through 5 or so little slip ups on more than one torred out username they were able to connect this event to this account who attended this rally, so did this account who lived here, as did this account that moved here, and we know this account did it, and this other guy on IRC admitted he was the owner of that account.
They did an investigation.
permalinkparentpocket
[–]IgnanceIsBliss 1 point 6 months ago
Yea I agree, most every major case against people which has involved the tor network has been due to poor opsec and user error. This is actually a decent defcon video on the several tor users who were caught. If i remember correctly, every single one is due to the user, whether is be divulging and mixing personal information or just failure to update/install tor correctly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G1LjQSYM5Q
permalinkparentpocket
[–]Thejunky1 1 point 6 months ago
I was literally just reaching into a tab I still had open from an hour ago to paste that here. Lot of really good examples.
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[–]cyril1991 2 points 6 months ago
Important and general point: if someone suspects you of a very specific act (say, selling drugs online on a particular forum), they can match the fact that you are accessing a TOR entry point at the same time your illegal activity is taking place. This can be sufficient to ID you (just because it is improbable that two distinct users are often connected at exactly the same time over several weeks), get a mandate, and access to your computer (preferably when you are using it, so any encryption won't help).
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[–]veemun 8 points 6 months ago
The thing about Tor is you can't trust who is running the exit nodes. So if someone is looking at the traffic coming through their exit node they can get a lot of information. So it's hard to call Tor "safe". Though it's hard to call anything "safe".
permalinkpocket
[–]kroolspaus 0 points 6 months ago
That's why you need to use SSL.
permalinkparentpocket
[–]spacebandido 3 points 6 months ago
question... Is it possible to identify a compromised exit node as a user? Or would you need admin access to the node? Can you even tell which exit node(s) your traffic is using?
permalinkparentpocket
[–]NEXT_VICTIM 2 points 6 months ago
IIRC there was a group that was intentionally leaking info to exit nodes and would try to catch them. If found, tot can blacklist them.
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[–]Will_653241 4 points 6 months ago
Tor is an anonymous browser. Anyone can view data after out of tor network. The "safety" if you want to call it that is that it cannot be linked to you. The only way to trace it to you is if you/your computer screws up and identifies you. You can research all those ways. Or the attacker controls a vast majority of the network(internet back bone) as to be able to trace the traffic using timing. I'm not an expert on it. But that is what i read when everyone was freaking out. Also if an attacker got ahold of one of the tor routing dns servers(don't know the official name but that aptly describes it) then tor is broken.
permalinkpocket
[–]OfficialEzekielcoder 3 points 6 months ago
I dont see why you wouldn't use a VPN when using tor, so if the exit node is compromised, it points back to the VPN location.
permalinkpocket
[–]reoost[S] 1 point 6 months ago
That won't stop the NSA though
permalinkparentpocket
[–]OfficialEzekielcoder 3 points 6 months ago
Well...
If that didnt stop the NSA, how come members of a team like "Lizard Squad"?
You dont want to be using an onshore vpn, (USA, CANADA, MEXICO, FRANCE, UK). you want to use something that is located in a place with low to no hacking laws, Russia, Nigeria, anywhere in Africa, as I said before Russia, Russia, China, maybe South Korea.
Why you may ask. WELL, the NSA can only spy on people in the USA, if you use a offshore VPN, then they cant watch you.
No lie, lots of offshore VPN's I have used, are REALLY fast.
OH may I add. A good thing to remember is, that a FREE VPN (CyberGhost, Betternet, and any others) ARE NOT, sufficient enough to keep you safe. Pay the few dollars it costs to get a offshore, no log, vpn.
Below are a few articles you should read. https://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315/3/ http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/proxies/603314-offshore-vpn-no-logs.html
MAKE SURE, they include these 3 words, No Logs - Offshore
permalinkparentpocket
[–]7ur1n 3 points 6 months ago
The NSA most certainly can break into a VPN off shore or not, find its routing and get the coming IP address. You cannot be 100% safe, but what i'd do is this (this guy ^ is close):
1) Buy a regular, digital ocean-like VPS. Host a small website on it, and then turn it into a forward for an SSH tunnel. Use a live-usb to tunnel in, set the tunnel up as a proxy.
2) While using your tunnel as a proxy, install tor on it, encrypt all outgoing network traffic (you should also do this for step 1). Then "tor" out to 10 or so nodes you have at least done some research on.
3) Get into bitcoins or another crytpo currency, create aone where you link your bank account, and then create another crypto-currency acount you can send funds too.
4) Buy a VPS anonymously through your now tunneled out to VPS to tor stack. Use this VPS completely anonymously through your stack, and set it up as a proxy that tor's out all traffic (again encrypted.)
4) Learn everything you can about OpSec, and espionage in general. Be your own nation, your own army, your own intelligence service. Trust no one and tell no one anything about your self, or what your doing or why. Only give (false, nothing even close to related to your real life) information to "friends" when you need to get answers.
Now, it's gonna be real hard to get caught. But nothing is impossible, the NSA can pretend to be Chinese or Libyan hackers and break into "random" hosts to get information. You piss of the wrong people, and they'll find you.
EDIT^ Remember, the more anonymous VPS's you add to the stack the safer you'll be, but the slower the connection.
permalinkparentpocket
[–]Thejunky1 1 point 6 months ago
I may be out of the loop when it comes to bit coins, but I do believe they are now a FCIC tradable commodity, right up there with oil, grain, gold, silver, and of course cash. Honestly, what has the world come to when we need to launder emoney?
permalinkparentpocket
[–]gachimuchi4 1 point 6 months ago
Is it really possible to have a "no-log" VPN service? How can you be sure they are actually no log?
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[–]7ur1n 1 point 5 months ago
No, thats why you create a "stack" of VPN's, Proxies and TOR. That way they have to keep breaking in or legally obtaining the information. The more nodes you add into your "stack" the less likely it is you will be found.
But always remember, if you piss off the right person with enough money you can be caught. TOR is useful as the connector, if you have a VPS in iceland that you paid for with anonymous bitcoins, used a fake name and only logged in through tor (that you tunneled out into) it's gonna be pretty close to impossible finding you.
The government is more likely to find you by asking for tips and hiring detectives than tracing IP to IP through the TOR network twice.
permalinkparentpocket
[–]Haulie 2 points 6 months ago
TOR is a tool. It does what it does pretty well, but there's a veritable chasm between what it does and what people frequently believe it does.
If you think you can just hop on TOR and fire up your 1337 blackhat skiddie scriptz, there's probably a party van with your name on it.