Ops Meeting 4/2/2015

Alex Rhodes  12:37 PM
Is there an agenda for this meeting. I might not be able to join in. I might be driving as I have to be somewhere
by 7
Lisa Selk  12:38 PM
I believe it's 'mostly' to decide who will be chair...
Robert Davidson  12:39 PM
I am interested to see how the BOD elections turn out personally
Lisa Selk  12:40 PM
yup... I wish someone would have recorded the meeting... oh well... but yeah...
Alex Rhodes  12:51 PM
do we know who would like to be committee chairs? Just Andrew? Allen?
Ed Kim  12:53 PM
Metal shop will not be changing
Pearce Dunlap  12:53 PM
This is ops though
Robert Davidson  12:55 PM
Another FYI I have a Rep coming tonight from Cintas to go over Managed Bathroom Services cost and there
Repair solutions.
http://www.cintas.com/ManagedSolutions/EmergencyRepairGroup/
http://www.cintas.com/facilityservices/RestroomCleaning.aspx
Ed Kim  12:55 PM
Ah that's what you ment
Brandon Green  12:56 PM
Would that include restocking towels etc in rest room?
Robert Davidson  12:56 PM
Yep
Brandon Green  12:56 PM
That sounds awesome
Robert Davidson  12:57 PM
Toilet Paper, Soap, cleaning, Towels urinal cakes, etc
Brooks Scharff  12:57 PM
oh hell yes
Robert Davidson  12:58 PM
I am also thinking it's about time to fire the cleaning crew anyone elses thoughts on them?
it just seems Dusty
Brooks Scharff  12:58 PM
agreed
Alex Rhodes  12:58 PM
cost est.?
Robert Davidson  12:58 PM
Not a clue Should find out tonight
Alex Rhodes  12:58 PM
how often do they come?
Pearce Dunlap  12:58 PM
Meeting starts at 6, you're jumping the scheduled gun
Robert Davidson  12:58 PM
depends on cost
Andrew LeCody  12:58 PM
so this meeting doesn't start until 6pm lol
Robert Davidson  12:59 PM
Sorry!!! My Bad
Another FYI Erin (Insurance) is also coming tonight @ 7
Pearce Dunlap  12:59 PM
But I'd agree. Can the current crew. (Front men's bathroom is terrifying)
Brooks Scharff  12:59 PM
MEETING IS AT 6PM
Andrew LeCody  1:00 PM
lol I'm going to let Brooks keep yelling that until around 6pm
Brooks Scharff  1:00 PM
Nick Sainz  3:08 PM
So I'm confused when is the meeting? Are most of you going to be around the space during the meeting?
Andrew LeCody  3:12 PM
we're doing it via this hangout at 6pm
not everyone can be on site at the same time
Benjamin Groves  5:02 PM
Is there a meeting agenda?
Andrew LeCody  5:25 PM
not really, mostly just chair appointment and general "what's up?"
Benjamin Groves  5:27 PM
okay. I can attend in spirit via this thing  good call
Andrew LeCody  5:28 PM
meeting is via this thing
Brandon Green  5:41 PM
anyone else feel earthquake just now?
Brooks Scharff  5:41 PM
yep
in irving at my apt
Alex Rhodes  5:41 PM
In Addison.
William Petefish  5:42 PM
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us10001t33#general_summary
Alex Rhodes  5:43 PM
I like how it has nearby cities and lists OKC but not Dallas.
William Petefish  5:44 PM
And again. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us10001tg3#general_summary
I love how they are within 1 mile of eachother.
Brandon Green  5:45 PM
ah the 2.7 was from 5am
William Petefish  5:49 PM
If you wanna see a nearrealtime seismic: http://www.geology.smu.edu/dpawww/txar/
and: http://www.geology.smu.edu/dpawww/nvar/
NVAR caught the Earthquake.
Andrew LeCody  5:56 PM
3.3, meh
alright, we'll get the meeting started in a minute
William Petefish  5:57 PM
3.3 is just enough so shake some people up.
Andrew LeCody  6:00 PM
ok guys, time for the meeting
first topic is chair position
is anyone interested in being the chair?
Alex Rhodes  6:01 PM
Did Allen get on?
Brandon Green  6:01 PM
Can I nominate allen? thought he would be able to join this
Andrew LeCody  6:01 PM
Allen hasn't said anything to me
I've invited all the people who requested to attend
Pearce Dunlap  6:01 PM
We can send him an invite if he has an email
Nick Sainz  6:01 PM
allen is here
him and dagerous will be watching with my account
Andrew LeCody  6:02 PM
k
Alex Rhodes  6:03 PM
Does he want to be chair?
Andrew LeCody  6:03 PM
so does who all would like to be chair?
Nick Sainz  6:03 PM
Allan: I would
Alex Rhodes  6:03 PM
So there Andrew and Allen.
Anyone else?
Andrew LeCody  6:03 PM
yeah, I'll stay chair if the committee wants
Benjamin Groves  6:04 PM
That is a question  Andrew LeCody, you wish to bid to continue chair position?
I did not see it explicitly mentioned
ah, there it is
Andrew LeCody  6:05 PM
ok, last call, anyone else?
Nick Sainz  6:06 PM
Allen: and additionally I would add that because of what I feel is public desire for transparency for the Ops
committee, I would offer to run it as a consensus committee. One thing I would really like to do is offer office
hours every saturday at noon
Alex Rhodes  6:06 PM
Man ed by who?
Nick Sainz  6:06 PM
and that way people can bring there suggestions for what is running out and what needs fixing
Andrew LeCody  6:06 PM
why not use the forums, irc or email?
Brooks Scharff  6:06 PM
But also there's a distribution list people use
Nick Sainz  6:06 PM
and then we could do the Sam's Club / Home Depot runs immediately afterwards
Andrew LeCody  6:07 PM
I'm not opposed to the idea, but I don't know who would run it
Nick Sainz  6:07 PM
because we need physical help to do the actual fixing and buying
Pearce Dunlap  6:07 PM
We could use the forums to make a list all week and have a pickup on a specified day
Nick Sainz  6:07 PM
the sam's club's runs are so big now that multiple people are needed to push the carts around
Andrew LeCody  6:07 PM
yeah, I think the forums would reach much more people
Brooks Scharff  6:08 PM
SO I agree that in one way if they came and talked face to face they would be less likely to refuse to assist
Andrew LeCody  6:08 PM
haha true brooks
that might discourage people from asking for things though
Nick Sainz  6:08 PM
I'm offering to run it. I'm offering to hold office hours / an Ops meeting every Saturday at noon
Andrew LeCody  6:08 PM
"shit, if I ask for more paper towels they'll guilt me into helping"
Brandon Green  6:08 PM
doing both forum/email and scheduled time for in person and helping out would be good
Nick Sainz  6:08 PM
we need Sam's club runs every week now
it doesn't work, I've tried
Pearce Dunlap  6:09 PM
I think we should be taking advantage of the sams preshop process. It wouldn't be hard to pay and pack it up
from that
Andrew LeCody  6:09 PM
that was allen saying he was offering?
Alex Rhodes  6:09 PM
I believe that.
Nick Sainz  6:09 PM
people will make request without any shame
Benjamin Groves  6:09 PM
I need to get away from Sam's Club runs, or at least being the point guy
Nick Sainz  6:09 PM
yes, I'm the one typing on Nick
Brooks Scharff  6:09 PM
I have one of the DMS Sams cards if anyone wants another I can get one
Nick Sainz  6:09 PM
Allen: says I should still be adding "Allen" on the front of these
Andrew LeCody  6:10 PM
Allen, are you willing to do so even if the committee chooses a different chair?
Benjamin Groves  6:10 PM
The pickup trucks should alleviate the heavy load constraint, yes?
Nick Sainz  6:11 PM
Allen: I am totally not opposed to there being an online component as well, it would be by consensus
Allen: Ben, the issue now is the carts are too heavy
Allen: the trucks aren't the limiting factor, a truck will hold three cart full and the people in the truck can only push
two carts
Pearce Dunlap  6:12 PM
Not if we make the Sam's employees do it...
Benjamin Groves  6:12 PM
aye, more frequent or more carts
Brooks Scharff  6:12 PM
more frequent would solve that
Brandon Green  6:12 PM
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/smartorder/learnMore.jsp this?
Benjamin Groves  6:13 PM
Pearce has a point  I have been hesitant  The OPs chair can override
Andrew LeCody  6:13 PM
I'm down for Pearce's idea
I think the reason we didn't before, is we were variable in purchases
Pearce Dunlap  6:13 PM
Yes, thanks for the link Brandon
Alex Rhodes  6:14 PM
What are the quick caveats?
Min order?
Andrew LeCody  6:14 PM
no min order
Brandon Green  6:14 PM
interesting, then could come up with a fixed desired inventory and just order based off that
Andrew LeCody  6:14 PM
pickup person doesn't have to have a club card
so we can source volunteers easily
Pearce Dunlap  6:14 PM
It won't restock on something that unexpectedly runs out. Wed have to make a small run
Nick Sainz  6:15 PM
Allen: the issue with auto ordering is that it is harder to dynamically decide what we are short on
Andrew LeCody  6:15 PM
since there's no min, we could have people go whenever for small things
it's not autoorder, you have to build a cart and purchase
then you pick a date and time
Pearce Dunlap  6:15 PM
Smaller more manageable trips for when all the paper towels get incinerated on accident or something
Nick Sainz  6:16 PM
our burn rate on toilet paper and paper towels will unlikely be exactly in proportion of boxes, over time one will pile
up
Andrew LeCody  6:16 PM
I like it, it would reduce the requirements from "someone with a club card, debit card (or enough cash to cover),
car and time" to "someone with a car and time"
Brandon Green  6:16 PM
sounds like an interesting idea to reduce load on ops volunteers, but is probably getting off topic from chair
discussion
Andrew LeCody  6:17 PM
Brandon is right, we're getting a bit off topic
I still have a question for Allen that's unanswered though
Nick Sainz  6:17 PM
Allen: shoot
Andrew LeCody  6:17 PM
Allen, are you willing to do the saturday in person stuff, even if the committee chooses a different chair?
Nick Sainz  6:18 PM
Allen: it's obviously the chairs job to lead the committee, the chair would be the person hold meetings
Allen: I'm volunteering to be that person
Andrew LeCody  6:19 PM
I'm saying would you be willing to lead the sam's runs and solicit member needs on saturdays at a set time?
Brandon Green  6:19 PM
in the hypothetical context of while not being the chair?
Andrew LeCody  6:19 PM
yes
Nick Sainz  6:20 PM
Allen: I would advocate that the chair lead those office hours, having office hours with the not chair doesn't make
very much sense
Andrew LeCody  6:21 PM
why would the chair be required if we were on concensus?
Brooks Scharff  6:21 PM
actually agreed, especially if the person leading the meetings has no authority (not the dictator)
Andrew LeCody  6:21 PM
wouldn't a simple majority of the ops members be sufficient?
Brooks Scharff  6:21 PM
not if we're a dictatorship
Nick Sainz  6:21 PM
Nick: are we in agreement on consent committee?
Benjamin Groves  6:22 PM
will a majority of Ops attend Sat meetings?
Andrew LeCody  6:22 PM
I'm just trying to determine if you participation in ops is contingent on being chair
Brooks Scharff  6:22 PM
I couldn't on Saturdays
Alex Rhodes  6:22 PM
I'm hit or miss on Saturdays.
Brandon Green  6:22 PM
I thought we were discussing reasons why one of two people should be chair over the other
Brooks Scharff  6:23 PM
We ar
Alex Rhodes  6:23 PM
Crazy I Dea. Co chairs?
William Petefish  6:23 PM
May I suggest an alternative, CoChairs?
Benjamin Groves  6:23 PM
I think we are feeling out topics  wait till we get to policing the space for clutter
Nick Sainz  6:23 PM
Allen: my participation in ops has been consistent throughout, I fix the toilets, I make Sam's club runs, I just
fixed the air hose yesterday, I'm not sure my participation in ops is contingent on being a member except I'm a
lifer
Benjamin Groves  6:24 PM
I cannot say I have seen cochairs be effective (in cases of auto and electronics)
Brooks Scharff  6:24 PM
true
oligarchy?
Brandon Green  6:24 PM
A single lead seems better to me
Lisa Selk  6:25 PM
I am (assistant chair or some such thing) for Laser and it works fine for us... william has final say if there's any
question; but, he allows me to make decisions if/when he's not present
William Petefish  6:25 PM
yep... and it works.
Andrew LeCody  6:26 PM
I think a hierarchy makes sense, an even number of people in charge can easily deadlock if they are not in sync
that's the original reason we went with 5 board members instead of an even number
Brooks Scharff  6:27 PM
So really we're back to having a dictatorship but allowing delegation (which is already possible)
Nick Sainz  6:27 PM
Allen: as far as what difference does it make if it is consensus, there is a lot of discontent with Ops right now and
I want to reach out to the membership and really explain to them what goes on, and it will take tons of time, but I
think Ops needs the transparentcy that a public meeting offers, so people can vent if you will, in theory anyone
can veto a decision to buy toilet paper, but I'd be willing to take that to the board on an as needed basis, as far
as what difference would being chair be, it give a little bit more authority to lead, first among equals if you will
Pearce Dunlap  6:29 PM
What's the discontent with ops? If people don't come forward with issues they will never get fixed and people
can't change for the better
Lisa Selk  6:29 PM
the monthly member meetings are the best place for general discussion...
Alex Rhodes  6:30 PM
Don't bring up memento meetings.
Pearce Dunlap  6:30 PM
Members muttering in discontent to themselves can't be heard
Lisa Selk  6:30 PM
and when members find committees they want to be active in, then they join the committee and get in deeper
Alex Rhodes  6:30 PM
Especially in their current state.
Brooks Scharff  6:30 PM
So I'd say let's keep it as a dictatorship... we allow delegation and that's that
Andrew LeCody  6:30 PM
Perhaps maintaining the stock of supplies should be a separate committee?
Brooks Scharff  6:31 PM
automotive seems to like doing it
Alex Rhodes  6:31 PM
I like delegation. So network decisions. The chair can appoint brooks. Brooks has final say up to a certain
dollar amount.
Andrew LeCody  6:31 PM
Alex, that makes sense to me
Brooks Scharff  6:31 PM
yep, agreed
Nick Sainz  6:32 PM
Allen: it is the committee's call on whether to be consensus, I was offering to run it as a consensus to improve
transparentcy
Pearce Dunlap  6:32 PM
allen could cover supply needs
Alex Rhodes  6:32 PM
I feel consensus would slow things down
Pearce Dunlap  6:32 PM
robert already likes to run the air
William Petefish  6:33 PM
... and electrical.
Nick Sainz  6:33 PM
Allen: Ops is an important enough committee that the extra time to run a consensus committee I think is worth
the benefit in member involvement
Allen: so for instance storage, a lot of people seem to be upset about storage, I would be willing to sit down with
each of those people and talk to them about what they think is a reasonable storage policy, with the buy in, they
are less able to criticize what they came up with themselves
Andrew LeCody  6:35 PM
I think most of the ops volunteers are burned out with storage
Brooks Scharff  6:35 PM
So again, delegation? Whoever be head of Ops, delegate Network to Brooks (Example), delegate Storage to
whoever, supplies to whoever etc
Nick Sainz  6:35 PM
ken is joining the meeting
Andrew LeCody  6:35 PM
I'm willing to delegate storage to anyone who wants to take up that task
Nick Sainz  6:35 PM
Otto is also joining
Pearce Dunlap  6:36 PM
id like to see the storage rules respected a bit more is all. there are way too many people squatting on it
Brandon Green  6:36 PM
+1 Pearce
Brooks Scharff  6:36 PM
OK so let's vote on committee chair?
Pearce Dunlap  6:36 PM
i have a topic for that later. lets come back to it
Andrew LeCody  6:36 PM
yeah, we've made the rules very simple to encourage only active projects
Nick Sainz  6:37 PM
Nick: I would like to point Out I have asked for deligation of rights many times and been denied
Andrew LeCody  6:37 PM
yet people still treat the shelves like dead storage
Nick, if you would like to be in charge of storage, it's yours if I stay chair
Brooks Scharff  6:37 PM
No you haven' Nick... I don't see any email about it
ehh regardless, he's saying he will
if he doesn't, we cna always appoint a new chair at any time
Nick Sainz  6:38 PM
Allen: and I am willing to do the foot work and be at the Space to work on enforcement of those rules, I think it is
really important to be at the Space to enforce those rules
Nick: I have asked for access to the server room face to face multiple times and been denied.
Andrew LeCody  6:38 PM
I think a hierarchical model makes a lot of sense
Pearce Dunlap  6:38 PM
we normally go through the stoarage on thursdays after social
Andrew LeCody  6:38 PM
actually that's something else I plan on addressing
server room shouldn't be storage
it should be servers and network gear
I'm thinking we should get some basic lockers and place them in the electrical room, but that's getting offtopic
Brandon Green  6:39 PM
just rename it to 'private storage room', problem solved
Brooks Scharff  6:40 PM
off topic, can we vote?
Andrew LeCody  6:40 PM
yeah, I"m ready to vote, any objections?
Nick Sainz  6:41 PM
Allen: I am totally willing to yield back the Ops chair after six months if Andrew continues to show the
involvement he has shown in the last month, for a committee as important as Ops, I think it is really important to
have multiple people who can jump in and do the job like we have for treasurer right now, there's always the issue
if someone loses interest or gets hit by a bus
Robert Davidson  6:42 PM
Just catching up
Nick Sainz  6:42 PM
Allen: the six month chair rotation is a good idea
Brooks Scharff  6:43 PM
OK... voting time. Do we all agree it's Allen vs Andrew LeCody?
Robert Davidson  6:43 PM
Sure
Andrew LeCody  6:43 PM
Ok, please state who you are voting for and then we'll tally them
William Petefish  6:44 PM
LeCody.
Pearce Dunlap  6:44 PM
andrew l
Robert Davidson  6:44 PM
Lecody
Brandon Green  6:44 PM
Allen
Brooks Scharff  6:44 PM
LeCody
Alex Rhodes  6:44 PM
I vote allen. I'm curious. Plus we can consensus vote him out later if needed.
Nick Sainz  6:45 PM
Nick sAINZ Allen
Benjamin Groves  6:46 PM
LeCody  I have faith in his experience and knowledge of this domain
Brooks Scharff  6:46 PM
So right now I have 6 votes for LECody, 3 for Allen
Nick Sainz  6:46 PM
Lampy  vote for Allen
Alex Rhodes  6:47 PM
Is lamps part of ops?
Brooks Scharff  6:47 PM
I'm not showing Lampy as a member of Operations
Nick Sainz  6:47 PM
Ed kim for allen
Robert Davidson  6:47 PM
NIck your just walking around asking people to vote
Pearce Dunlap  6:47 PM
ed kim is in the chat
Andrew LeCody  6:47 PM
Nick, why would you try to demoralize the volunteers in the committee by trying to stack the votes?
Pearce Dunlap  6:47 PM
why are you voting for him
Brooks Scharff  6:48 PM
please ask ed to use his phone
Benjamin Groves  6:48 PM
I would like to see Allen delegated some more roles as a form of potential "ramping up"
Robert Davidson  6:48 PM
We're is accountability
Benjamin Groves  6:48 PM
not cool Nick
Andrew LeCody  6:49 PM
I have serious concerns about this kind of gerrymandering
Brooks Scharff  6:49 PM
So having ignored nonOps members (per the Wiki page), there's 6 for Andrew LeCody, 3 for Allen
Nick Sainz  6:49 PM
Allen: this is just not true, what's happening is people who couldn't figure out how to join are gathered in a room
trying to participate
Brooks Scharff  6:50 PM
The wiki is very clear on how to join Ops... it says send an email to ops@dms and add your name to members
section of wiki
This is the official Operations and Facilities Committee page, as ratified by the board
Pearce Dunlap  6:50 PM
just like any other comitte and the meeting was on talk
Alex Rhodes  6:51 PM
Is be willing to forgive it if they participated in ops. But what has lamps done?
Andrew LeCody  6:51 PM
I'm very disappointed in the use of these tactics
Nick Sainz  6:51 PM
Allen: as am I
Allen: this meeting was scheduled two days ago, moved multiple times, getting on this talk was a major effort for
me
Brandon Green  6:52 PM
either we say 6 for Lecody is enough of 14 members listed on wiki to count as a win and we all get more
disgruntled about process and lack of transparency, or reschedule for a different time / method
Andrew LeCody  6:52 PM
it was rescheduled, once
Nick Sainz  6:52 PM
Allen: finding out when it was required constant asking
Pearce Dunlap  6:52 PM
and alex was going to meet with you to get you into the chat
Nick Sainz  6:52 PM
Allen: it was posted on the calendar a day before
Andrew LeCody  6:53 PM
and you object now?
right as voting starts?
Brandon Green  6:53 PM
weren't you asking what discontent earlier Pearce?
Andrew LeCody  6:53 PM
not at the start of the meeting, an hour ago
not before then?
it's clear you wished for this to be a circus from the start
Alex Rhodes  6:53 PM
Accusatory.
Nick Sainz  6:54 PM
Allen: by my count it is 7 to 6 in my favor, I vote for Allen
Alex Rhodes  6:54 PM
Simmer all.
Brooks Scharff  6:54 PM
I have pearce, william, robert, brooks, lisa nad ben for lecody, and only brandon alex and nick for allen
Allen, you're technically not a member of Ops, again see the wiki page
Alex Rhodes  6:55 PM
Let Allen vote.
He actually does stuff.
I give that more credence than a wiki entry.
Benjamin Groves  6:55 PM
+1 Alex
Andrew LeCody  6:55 PM
I'm not against letting people join ops and vote
Brooks Scharff  6:55 PM
ok, i added allen voting for allen
Brandon Green  6:55 PM
I added myself to wiki yesterday thinking that might come up in this, dont think it should really mean anything as
in reality wiki doesnt count for much
Alex Rhodes  6:56 PM
But you do stuff too.
Lisa Selk  6:56 PM
my vote: Andrew LeCody
Andrew LeCody  6:56 PM
but the tactics employed today by Nick and Allen is not excellent
Nick Sainz  6:56 PM
Allen: It's a question for the board, regardless, I don't think anyone can clearly say they won,
Pearce Dunlap  6:56 PM
the wiki doesn, true. but just running around the space asking people who they would vote for without having
seen any of this meeting?
William Petefish  6:57 PM
+1 for LeCody and Pearce.
Brooks Scharff  6:57 PM
SO let's take it to the board then. All Ops does is give the recommendation, board can do whatever they want
Lisa Selk  6:58 PM
to be honest, my vote was on the fence...
Andrew has done (and continues to do) a lot for the 'space...
as well as Allen
it's the actions during this chat that helped solidify my vote...
Nick Sainz  6:58 PM
Nick: I love the fact that I'm the member sharing access and I'm getting attacked
Alex Rhodes  6:58 PM
Meh. To that.
Brooks Scharff  6:58 PM
Then make people use their own account, we're happy to add anyone to this chat
William Petefish  6:59 PM
Yes, you shared access, BUT you were allowing people to vote who were not on the committee...
Not cool...
Nick Sainz  6:59 PM
Allen: Otto who is in the background says that he wishes the Ops election could be out in the open and not this
difficult to access talk session
Brandon Green  6:59 PM
is this really the best we can do at recommending a chair? Half online half in person through proxy was not a
sound approach to start with
Brooks Scharff  6:59 PM
Last I saw, Otto was in the arts room... not in the classroom
Otto Wagner joined the conversation
Andrew LeCody  7:00 PM
thank you pearce
Brooks Scharff  7:01 PM
Otto, care to chime in?
Lisa Selk  7:01 PM
it was posted ahead of time how to join...
anyone interested should have been logged into their own account at the time the meeting began
Nick Sainz  7:01 PM
Allen: which is essentially my entire point, my issue is that this is a really closed group, trying to get more people
involved to a committee that is very closed off is entirely fair, and that's what I am trying to do
Lisa Selk  7:02 PM
going around and grabbing people for votes, well into the meeting is what isn't kewl with me..
Google accounts are a dime a dozen...
Nick Sainz  7:02 PM
Allen: I seriously object to Brooks snooping on us through the cameras, I ask that his access be suspended
immediately
Allen: we agreed that that was not an acceptable use of the cameras
Brooks Scharff  7:02 PM
actually it wasn't me
Andrew LeCody  7:03 PM
falsely accusing one of our volunteers and asking for them to be suspended is also not excellent
Lisa Selk  7:03 PM
I will be holding the 3D fab meeting in the same way... because it's easier for members to be available from their
phone/computer from any location, than to require in person presence... (which is how i am forced to miss so
many meetings ... the ones that are not done online... )
Nick Sainz  7:03 PM
Allen: we're not in the classroom, we're in the art room
Allen: Brooks said that last he saw Otto was in the art room
Lisa Selk  7:04 PM
there are no cameras in the classrooms
??
I do believe that there are members there in person who actually SEE who is where.. at least that's what I
understood to be the case
Nick Sainz  7:04 PM
Allen: if brooks popped in I retract my statement and apologize, how did Brooks know that Otto was in the art
room
Andrew LeCody  7:05 PM
this is ridiculous and unproductive
Brandon Green  7:05 PM
+1 Andrew
Andrew LeCody  7:05 PM
another member told me who all was here
Nick Sainz  7:06 PM
Allen: Brooks made a statement that sounded like he was big brothering us
Andrew LeCody  7:06 PM
I'm on site, with another member who I asked to verify people were actually there with you
Robert Davidson  7:06 PM
Well I am here and saw you all
Nick Sainz  7:06 PM
Allen: So Brooks misspoke
Allen: " Last I saw, Otto was in the arts room... not in the classroom "  Brooks
Allen: that's not what Brooks said, he said he saw, how else would he know
Allen: anyone, he didn't say Robert saw, he didn't say Pearce saw, he said "last I saw"
Andrew LeCody  7:09 PM
this doesn't get us anywhere
Brandon Green  7:09 PM
So with an online hangout vote in your favor of questioned validity how would you like to continue this meeting?
Brooks Scharff  7:10 PM
I vote video chat
Andrew LeCody  7:10 PM
it's obvious this meeting will not be productive
Brandon Green  7:10 PM
when is the deadline to recommend a chair to board? the next board meeting?
Andrew LeCody  7:10 PM
yes, by the next meeting
Nick Sainz  7:11 PM
Allen: there is none, the board can choose whoever they like, this is merely a recommendation
Brandon Green  7:11 PM
so we have 16 days to do something else that more people may or may not get on board with
Nick Sainz  7:11 PM
Allen: that's why the debate of who an Ops member is is silly
Andrew LeCody  7:11 PM
the debate isn't who is an ops member, it's why you felt the need to rope people in at the last second
if you truly cared about them being in the meeting, why didn't you try earlier?
why didn't you ask me?
or anyone in ops?
Nick Sainz  7:12 PM
Allen: Ops effects everyone, and that's why I feel like we really need to get a lot more people involved and have
more transparentcy, the lines are drawn, I am happy leaving things where they are
Andrew LeCody  7:12 PM
I agree that we need more volunteers on ops
but your methods are not helpful, they're clearly divisive
Nick Sainz  7:13 PM
Allen: I did, I asked to be informed when Ops would next have a meeting weeks ago
Pearce Dunlap  7:13 PM
but they need to do more than parrot someones vote
Andrew LeCody  7:13 PM
I'm calling an end to this meeting
we'll discuss rescheduling on the forums
Nick Sainz  7:14 PM
Allen: I think the mater is fleshed out, it's a decision for the board
Pearce Dunlap  7:15 PM
i wouldnt be opposed to having an inperson meeting
Andrew LeCody  7:15 PM
Allen, so now the volunteer's opinions don't matter?
Pearce Dunlap  7:15 PM
we just need to talk it out here to get availablity for the people present
Andrew LeCody  7:15 PM
I think an in person meeting is warranted
Nick Sainz  7:15 PM
Allen: how about this Saturday at noon
Andrew LeCody  7:15 PM
a holiday weekend?
Nick Sainz  7:16 PM
Allen: let's do a Sam's club run afterwards
Andrew LeCody  7:16 PM
also, wasn't your initial complaint that it was scheduled two days before
Brandon Green  7:16 PM
could have it at next member meeting and scare away people from ever wanting to come back
Nick Sainz  7:16 PM
Allen: the Saturday after that works too, I will be at both
Pearce Dunlap  7:16 PM
noon probably wont work, one of the main reasons for thei hangout is that some peope dont get out till late
also ill probably sleep past the meeting
Nick Sainz  7:18 PM
frank just walked in and said he wanted to vote allen
Brooks Scharff  7:18 PM
frank is also not a member of ops per the wiki
Nick Sainz  7:18 PM
no prompting at all, we are not going out getting votes
Pearce Dunlap  7:18 PM
neat. next meeting
William Petefish  7:18 PM
Could I request that the next meeting be at the same time 1 week from today?
Pearce Dunlap  7:19 PM
current topic rescheduling for all available people
Nick Sainz  7:19 PM
Allen: Either of the next two Saturday's at noon, be prepared to haul sam's club stuff
Pearce Dunlap  7:19 PM
cant do noon
Brooks Scharff  7:19 PM
yeah I definitely can't either
Nick Sainz  7:20 PM
Allen: that's when the Space is most popular, I don't want to be accused of leaving out volunteers again
Pearce Dunlap  7:20 PM
it will be posted on the calendar and talk
Brooks Scharff  7:20 PM
space is most popular at 6pm on thursday
Pearce Dunlap  7:20 PM
just like you, they had time to see it
Nick Sainz  7:21 PM
Allen: but most people here now aren't members
Lisa Selk  7:21 PM
during the week, I cannot be in person before 10 PM or later (depending if i get stuck on a last minute call)
on the weekend, I usually get up around 4 PM
Pearce Dunlap  7:21 PM
id rather not meet on socail night, we could be giving tours or teaching new members stuff
man my typing sucks
William Petefish  7:22 PM
lol
Nick Sainz  7:22 PM
Allen: y'all realize a Sam's club run and other fixing takes all afternoon?
Allen: it's noon until dinner time
Pearce Dunlap  7:23 PM
we can still go to sams without having the meeting
Lisa Selk  7:23 PM
yeah sams and meeting do not have to be the same day/time
Brandon Green  7:23 PM
The idea that getting people in a room would lead to concensus and harmony seems a bit unrealistic
Nick Sainz  7:28 PM
Allen: I plan to be there if anyone wants to talk to me, we're not going to have an agreed recommendation to the
board, I will say as a closing thought from me, that I felt that the allegation of not being excellent was a pretty
dirty in itself, just by claiming the moral high ground doesn't give you the moral high ground, we tend to all work
alright in person, and it is no secret that I have a strong preference for meetings in person, that's essentially the
thrust of my platform
Lisa Selk  7:30 PM
Allen.. .personally, I appreciate the things you do at the 'Space...
My main complaint is having people join to vote, after the voting has begun.
Like you say, in person we usually all work together for the greater good and that is something I love about the
'space!
Alex Rhodes  7:30 PM
I can't do this weekend.
Nick Sainz  7:31 PM
Allen: any other committee allows walking into the room late, anyone who is interested and walks into the room is
allowed to have a say, it's true of board meetings and member meeting
Allen: I haven't left the art room since this started
Benjamin Groves  7:32 PM
My complaint is not necessarily at Allen. My issue is going and recruiting people mid vote to try and turn the tide
 and by recruiting, I mean influencing their vote  I am under the impression Nick was doing this
William Petefish  7:32 PM
+1 for Ben.
Nick Sainz  7:33 PM
Allen: I can assure you Ben that is not true. He went to get Ken who asked to join when the meeting started,
Electronics had its meeting right before this so he was running late
Benjamin Groves  7:33 PM
then things got ugly
Lisa Selk  7:33 PM
Ben.. that is what I'm saying
'n true people can contribute during meetings..
but people need to be available/present (virtually/in person) for the vote...
Brandon Green  7:33 PM
I will laugh if this devolves into checking can footage
Cam*
Lisa Selk  7:34 PM
at any rate... I'm just grateful we have members who do care and do volunteer..
Nick Sainz  7:34 PM
Allen: not everyone was hovering around the screen the entire time, but I don't think that's the point
Benjamin Groves  7:35 PM
I am out of town, so I am happy to participate online. We need to devise and recognize a tandem system where
we can have remote and immediate access participants.
Lisa Selk  7:35 PM
YES
Nick Sainz  7:35 PM
Allen: was everyone who was able to sign on watching the feed the entire time?
Allen: I saw Robert giving a tour during the voting
Lisa Selk  7:35 PM
i've had the window open the entire time...
on my own account.
Alex Rhodes  7:36 PM
I was able to catch up.
William Petefish  7:36 PM
one tab... on screen... and I read everything.
Lisa Selk  7:36 PM
I think going forward 'electronic' attendance should require each person 'attending' to be on their own account...
William Petefish  7:36 PM
+1 for lisa.
Benjamin Groves  7:36 PM
And Allen, I greatly appreciate your efforts to step up more than you are currently doing at DMS. Unfortunately
(for you), I think that also means getting involved or at least monitoring the Discourse.
Alex Rhodes  7:37 PM
I have read everything.
Lisa Selk  7:37 PM
otherwise, anyone could say.. "oh yeah and amber and jose and rob and uhm.."
y'know
Robert Davidson  7:37 PM
Actually Alan I am
Waiting on you with erin
Nick Sainz  7:37 PM
Allen: everyone was able to go through the feed or get updates from people in the room
Lisa Selk  7:37 PM
btw
I am NOT accusing anyone of making up stuff
Robert Davidson  7:37 PM
In the lecture hall ready
Lisa Selk  7:37 PM
just saying, it leads to that possibility
Nick Sainz  7:39 PM
Allen: I'm going to go meet Robert, I'm always available to talk about this, I do honestly take offence that our
efforts to participate in what I view is a very exclusive forum for a committee that has such broad effect to be
very disturbing. It is for this reason that I think it is so important that Ops have more open meetings.
Alex Rhodes  7:39 PM
The room was not part of this.
Nick Sainz  7:39 PM
signing out.
Alex Rhodes  7:40 PM
Later