Keinecat Drama Thing - Extended Discussion

[1:21 AM] Uschi: @ admins y'all need to chill the fuck out lmao. i can agree. but damn.(edited)
[1:24 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Keine is just tryingto throw Ceej under the bus. While yes he has problems, THAT isn't the issue right now.
[1:24 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Indeed. That's not a discussion to be having where literally everyone can see.
[1:24 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: ^Just thought i'd put that down brb
[1:25 AM] Schrödinger's NinjaSteve: Yo @Keinecat I think you need to calm down just a wee little bit
[1:25 AM] Keinecat: OH right
[1:25 AM] Keinecat: admin chat is visible...
[1:25 AM] Uschi: i think im the only one not telling keine to calm down. i was talking the bleach and nora.
[1:26 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: -slow clap-
[1:27 AM] Uschi: nora i dont think randomly going "meow" in a slightly serious convo is a good idea lmao
[1:31 AM] Keinecat: This is one of the reasons why I was against admin chat visiblity, cause I would've been demoted quietly if no one could see all this, but now people know something in the skype chat
[1:33 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I would hardly call that "quietly", whether we can see it or not.
[1:34 AM] Keksimus Maximus: I'm not sure how I feel about that subject, while yes, I can see how it can cause problems for the person being demoted, but at the same time, such a level of transparency helps to foster trust for the admins amoung the group members, so at this point in time, I'm on the fence in regards to this
[1:35 AM] Uschi: i like the idea of it being visible so i could have more of a voice. but then i remembered that no one cares what i say. 😉
[1:35 AM] Keinecat: Well I would be demoted and no one would see the admin chat so people wouldn't know what was going on, I would've just been demoted and everyone would've just been "Finally he hadn't done anything"
[1:35 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I'm all for the notion of a private admin chat.

It's the #adminlogs channel that I think is important.
[1:36 AM] ExPorygon: i agree with that as well
[1:37 AM] ExPorygon: but that said, we do have a skype chat that things are discussed in. the discord one is supposed to be used for topics that concern the members immediately
[1:37 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Well Keine, the admin chat being visible is net better for the group.
[1:37 AM] Kedata ♧: Seems like a mixed bag of ups and downs. Having an open admin chat.
[1:38 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I have my own opinions on this whole subject.

But given that I run a sister community, I feel obligated to keep it to myself.

Conflict of interest and all that.
[1:39 AM] Keksimus Maximus: Fair enough
[1:39 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I can say this much, though.

I would have thought better of you, Keine, if you had taken this gracefully.
[1:40 AM] Uschi: anyway yeah i agree with what roy's message said(edited)
[1:40 AM] Uschi: just tbh
[1:41 AM] Keinecat: I don't care if I'm being demoted it was coming anyways. I'm just trying to make sure everything will be alright.
[1:41 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Que sera, sera.
[1:42 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: What will be, will be.
[1:53 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Keine...This group isn't as small as it used to be. Yes, being an admin takes time, just as any position of authority.
[1:56 AM] HTFCirno2000: my question is
[1:56 AM] HTFCirno2000: Do people even want me back as an admin come september?(edited)
[1:56 AM] HTFCirno2000: Cause i get the feeling the answer is gonna be a resounding "no"
[1:56 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Why do you say that HTF?..w.
[1:57 AM] Kedata ♧: Well, my gut instinct to that is "Yes."
[1:57 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Don't be so defeatest.
[1:57 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: HTF can't also have a foot fetish! D:
[1:57 AM] Kedata ♧: as in, "Yes, it would nice to see you come back as an admin."
[1:57 AM] HTFCirno2000: xD
[1:57 AM] Kedata ♧: Just gut feelings here
[1:58 AM] HTFCirno2000: Honestly though, i didnt leave because i thought i wasnt good enough here or anything. Mostly something irl related.
[1:58 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: The problems really just stem from squirrely-ness when someone's under duress.
[1:58 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: And yes I'm speaking about you HTF. You need to calm down and not overreact when you do something wrong.
[1:59 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: I mean, it isn't like you perma-banned anyone by mistake, or as a prank.
[1:59 AM] Uschi: shit happens basically
[1:59 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: And you don't abuse your position, from what I can see.
[2:00 AM] HTFCirno2000: None the less, i said temporary step down. I said i would come back in september.
[2:00 AM] ExPorygon: you didnt need to leave the admin chat, you didnt need to demote yourself
[2:01 AM] HTFCirno2000: I did come back as a member now, but thats mosty cause i realized leaving was a mistake
[2:01 AM] HTFCirno2000: @ExPorygon yeah well i did, so that's why im not begging to be an admin again right away.
[2:01 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: -sigh-
[2:02 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Sometimes being admin of a sister community can be a pain.

It restricts my ability to say what's on my mind. = 3=
[2:03 AM] ExPorygon: which one is that?
[2:03 AM] Kedata ♧: WAN
[2:03 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: ^
[2:03 AM] Uschi: Wan.....?
[2:03 AM] ExPorygon: and how does that restrict you?
[2:04 AM] ExPorygon: just curious
[2:04 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Conflict of interest. I operate WAN differently and hold the community to different standards, and I do not wish to apply that judgement to any comments I may have in regards to the way WSW is staffed.
[2:04 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I don't feel that would be kosher.
[2:05 AM] Kedata ♧: WAN is a roleplay group that Kit has had for a while and is the admin of, a sister group and affiliate of the WSW.

...Perhaps, I should let Kit explain this?
[2:05 AM] ExPorygon: very well then, though i dont believe that to be true myself. i'd welcome outside opinions as something else to consider
[2:05 AM] Kedata ♧: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2:05 AM] Uschi: pfft
[2:06 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: -tips slightly to the side and taps chin-

Kedata's pretty much right - the foundation of WAN is oriented around roleplay, but it's also a social group and does place focus on content creation.
[2:06 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: But let's see...
[2:07 AM] Kedata ♧: Different groups have different rules?
[2:08 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Well, something like that. I do believe in WSW's creed, and consider it as being applicable to WAN via affiliation, but... as you may have noticed, WSW has 14 rules... and WAN has 3 with a couple footnote-like addendums.
[2:09 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: This isn't to say that I just let the community do whatever it pleases - I think Kedata can vouch for the fact that for the most part, the community holds itself to a pretty nice standard.
[2:13 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: If I were to operate WAN using a council-based staffing arrangement, not that it currently needs anything of the sort right now, and select the council from WSW staffers and community members...

I would only consider Diz, Spaz, and Drac as candidates.
[2:14 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: But again, that is me applying the standards I would expect for WAN, and is not applicable to WSW as anything more than an opinion.
[2:14 AM] Kedata ♧: Well. WAN has been more or less doing swell. Can't deny the kinks the group has had, but overall, it's been doing well, I would think.
[2:14 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: Wow... that's a pretty high opinion of me...  Thank you.
[2:16 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: You're welcome - though just to put it out there, there would be a lot of questions and hypotheticals thrown in your direction beforehand, and candidacy/nomination doesn't necessarily mean you'd actually get the spot.

Even still, I operate WAN differently from WSW, and as of yet, there hasn't been too much need of additional staffers. We don't exactly have any immigration.
[2:18 AM] Kedata ♧: Just to clarify, what exactly do you mean by "immigration"?
[2:18 AM] HTFCirno2000: > immagration
[2:18 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: An influx of new members, some of whom may become regular members.
[2:18 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: We're not advertising, we're not reaching out for new folks.
[2:19 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: We probably should - but we haven't been.
[2:19 AM] Spaztique: word of mouth is often enough: do good enough, people flock to your group
[2:19 AM] Spaztique: though, I wouldn't neccessarely call it "immigration" as all of the groups share members to a degree or another
[2:19 AM] Spaztique: each group has its own culture, standards, rules, etc.
[2:19 AM] Spaztique: and some people thrive well in some groups compared to others
[2:20 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I'm actually trying to not peel members away from WSW. as a sister group, I'm not wanting WAN to be viewed as competition or anything like that, and it just doesn't feel right to go advertising it here.
[2:20 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I'll mention it, but not spread invite links.
[2:20 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Unless someone asks, that is.
[2:20 AM] Uschi: >culture
[2:21 AM] Spaztique: it's alrighty. technically, no walfas group steals members from eachothers
[2:21 AM] Spaztique: again, it's as easy as just hitting the join button for any group
[2:21 AM] Uschi: culture sounds like a weird term to use
[2:21 AM] Uschi: for that
[2:21 AM] Kedata ♧: Well, people can act differently in different groups, as different groups have different focuses.
[2:21 AM] Kedata ♧: and other things.
[2:22 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I guess to be fair, we're not exactly a walfas group - it's just that most of the current members are from WSW, which is a walfas group.
[2:23 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: So it's two different dishes at the same buffet, rather than two bowls of the same casserole by different chefs.
[2:23 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: WSW is also a touhou group, and touhou features prominently on WAN.
[2:24 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: So think of it as a 'branch' rather than competition.
[2:24 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: That works as well.
[2:25 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Iunno.

If folks want to advertise for WAN and bring over a few folks, I guess there's enough difference now that it wouldn't be much issue.

>tbh, originally, WAN was supposed to adopt and handle all of WSW's roleplaying for the sake of keeping WSW's channel listing tidy and free of growing roleplay needs
[2:27 AM] Kedata ♧: I don't think removing any rp chatrooms in WSW is the best of ideas, considering how active they are :p
[2:27 AM] Kedata ♧: WAN and WSW are seperate groups.
[2:27 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: That wasn't the case back when I made and proposed WAN.
[2:27 AM] Spaztique: there really isn't much competition in the walfas community anyway: all of the groups are on somewhat good terms
[2:28 AM] Kedata ♧: I honestly don't really follow/stay up-to-date with any other walfas groups. Largely because I haven't done a walfas thing in months, perhaps.
[2:28 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Culture is a good term.
[2:28 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Also I know how both Keine and Harbor feel.
[2:29 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Can relate to both =3=
[2:29 AM] Kedata ♧: Harbor? You mean Kit right .w.
[2:29 AM] HTFCirno2000: Kit
[2:29 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Same.

WSW is the only walfas group I "know" - the only other one I know merely by name, and that's WC1/WC2 or whichever one it is.
[2:29 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Hm?
[2:31 AM] Kedata ♧: Hm.
[2:31 AM] Kedata ♧: I've been wondering for a bit. What's the purpose of the no grudge rule?
[2:32 AM] Keinecat: It's so if you get in a fight with someon
[2:32 AM] Spaztique: It was originally implimented as an anti-troll countermeasure, but it's mainly there to keep members from A. Fighting and B. Getting people to join in on fights.
[2:32 AM] Keinecat: You shouldn't hold it against them forever
[2:32 AM] Spaztique: It was implimented at a time when somebody basically regularly pitted people against eachother
[2:33 AM] Spaztique: starting fights among members, getting people to join in on those fights, etc
[2:33 AM] Spaztique: The Anti-Grudge Policy put a stop to that
[2:33 AM] Keinecat: Sometimes disagreements go on, we just hope that it cools down soon
[2:34 AM] Spaztique: in the long run, it also helped with immature members who decided to follow the same idea
[2:34 AM] Keinecat: Humans are human
[2:34 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: To piggyback on what Keine said...
[2:35 AM] Kedata ♧: I wouldn't think it'd be something that needs to be an actual rule, as that implies that you can punish people for having grudges. And, well, you can't force people to like everyone. I wouldn't think you would need to make this a rule that you can punish people over, although I am a newer member. Instead, I would think that, if the case comes up, that you would have to punish people for what they did because they had a grudge, but not punish people for having a grudge alone. Some people can stay civil even with a grudge, and it feels silly if they can technically be punished for a grudge alone if they do not act upon that grudge.

I hope this makes some form of sense.
[2:35 AM] Kedata ♧: I'm kind of just... laying thoughts as they appear.
[2:35 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Frog ninja'd the words right out of my textbox.
[2:35 AM] Spaztique: Being civil and disagreeing with someone is okay
[2:36 AM] Spaztique: Not liking somebody is also something we can't do anything about if you at least promise to stay civil.
[2:36 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: I feel like sharing what I have for the rules in WAN.
[2:36 AM] Spaztique: It's only when you do something that hurts others that we take up arms.
[2:36 AM] Keinecat: I don't mind some people not liking me, I do swear a lot in speech and such. Some people find me annoying. But ah well.
[2:37 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: I kind of feel like I have to play Devil's Advocate sometimes, which is a position I don't like. Moreso because I prefer it when I am standing up for people for like reasons, than having to throw a monkeywrench into a set of gears before someone gets crushed under the weight of a group of emotional people.
[2:37 AM] Keinecat: Dun
[2:37 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: And I feel I have to do this, because it seems like no one else does.
[2:37 AM] Keinecat: I've sometimes backed you up
[2:38 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: You have, but I am talking about more recently.
[2:38 AM] Kedata ♧: Yes, I see that Spaz. I just think it's silly that you can technically punish people over having a grudge if it's a rule (not saying you or any other actually would, mind you.). If somebody can't handle their grudge, then most likely they'll break other rules in the process anyways, so then now I wonder if a no grudge rule still needs to exist as a rule as well, so that sillyness can most definitely not happen from it.
[2:38 AM] Keinecat: Devil's adovcate is an important thing to have
[2:38 AM] Spaztique: pretty much, kedata
[2:38 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: I guess there was an underlying reason I took up the position of chief justice when I was in Job Corps .w.
[2:39 AM] Spaztique: but the rule is there simply because it covers all the other rules
[2:39 AM] Kedata ♧: I would suggest making yourself absolutely clear that you are playing Devil's Advocate, and that you are arguing something that you do not necessarily believe in yourself.
[2:39 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Even after everyone warned me what I had to deal with =3=
[2:39 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Here is what we have for rules in WAN, for reference...
[2:39 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: People already know what I believe in though.
[2:39 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Oh, lovely. No imagesharing in this channel.
[2:39 AM] Spaztique: we could say, "It's against the rules to actively hunt other people, harras people, spam defametory statements, and make others join in on that hunt, spreading lies, rumors, dissent, and causing general havoc in the group," but it's just easier to say, "Don't break the Anti-Grudge Policy."(edited)
[2:39 AM] Kedata ♧: https://gyazo.com/661bdf2c3d02bc9e2cdeb11844a5725d
[2:39 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: And apparently no links either.
[2:40 AM] Kedata ♧: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2:40 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: A wonderfully accomodating discussion channel.
[2:41 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: It was the reason I was trying to get people to pump the breaks when they were discussing Red Imprisoner.
[2:41 AM] Spaztique: funny enough, those look like the rules of an Undertale theory channel I'm trying to start
[2:41 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: But I argued from the heart.
[2:41 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: And tempered myself with reason.
[2:41 AM] Keinecat: When I play devil's adovocate I do it because I don't think someone is getting a fair treatment, I brought up the Flub SDV thing that happened like a year ago cause it had a reason no one knew until I went to him personally, apparently there was a history in his family that caused him to get passionate.
[2:41 AM] Kedata ♧: What was the original reasoning for not having links and imagesharing enabled in this room, again?
[2:42 AM] Keinecat: I do have some thoughts on RED
[2:42 AM] Kedata ♧: I vaguely remember but cannot describe it. (the reasoning for no imagesharing and links that is_(edited)
[2:42 AM] Eleky: Disturbing images I suppose
[2:42 AM] Spaztique: I wasnt here when they made this
[2:42 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Personally, I hate Red's homophobia.
[2:42 AM] Kedata ♧: We don't really have disturbing images here do we?
[2:42 AM] Eleky: I forgot the word
[2:42 AM] Spaztique: I've been on semi-haitus for roughly a year now
[2:42 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: But I don't think it is okay that...
[2:42 AM] Eleky: oh, images that makes people uncomfortable?
[2:42 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Ok, so I'll type it.
Keinecat - Today at 10:50 PM
I always thought of this place as a hobby group
You don't need to put hour and hours unless you just felt like it.
I don't know.

If this is how you feel, fine. Enjoy the group as a MEMBER Because you clearly don't have a mindset needed to be an admin.

As for the rest of the crap you are spewing, if you were really worried about it. You would have brought it up long ago, not right when it could save your own skin. Considering there have been group murmerings of 'Why the hell is he an admin?'

Ceej may be 'harsh' as you said (I say he's doing the job I was doing as part of the team), but someone needs to be able to say 'you're an idiot' when someone is being an idiot.(edited)
You've had time and time again to shape the fuck up.
and you failed it.
again
and again
Now you face the harvest.(edited)
Reap what you sowed.
"More drama going on from personal and multiple parties, but I still wanted to help people, and that's when I started going lone wolf. I didn't see going lone as a bad thing, I just wanted things to be ok.  "

I'mma stop you riight there. You fukin' wot m8? You were told, in no uncertain terms, that that was NOT kosher. Again, and again.

"drama in the skype group, and then I started to feel a bit helpless, and stuck to one on ones. I've never been the most social person, so seeing some of this turned me off, I was just completing voting that had 2/3  votes. "

Voting, doiesn't mean Jack to this shit. You lost your credibility and position. Learn to live with it, I did. As for fealing helpless, you were not helpless, you were useless, which is far worse.
[2:43 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Just because Miki got her feathers ruffled the entire group went into witch hunt modo.
[2:43 AM] Keinecat: Oh ok
[2:43 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: We saw that Roy
[2:43 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: "Sometimes I'd try to defend someone, even if they seem like they should like that whole Flub and SDV thing. I just wanted things to be fair for everyone, even if a majority of people don't like a certain party."

You try and defend the people who you want to defend, so do the rest of us. Frainkly, the fact that you have been on and active more right noiw in the entire time since I stepped down, only makes the damned point more valid.

Stop spouting  more bullshit then that state of Kansis.
Keinecat - Today at 11:29 PM
As we grew, the more I felt one on ones were great. I'm not the most social person, and I always felt like I shouldn't just jump into a circle and just try and help people, some people know this, but it's just a small handful of many people here.

Not being social isn't an excuse. I'm not social, and I managed to do my job as best I could. You were jumping into situations without informing the other admins, or making the situation worse with your actions.

also quick side note on the Deputy admins, I've been seeing good things Type just needs to work on... don't know what to call it... but he's kinda weird with decisions. and Eleky has been great so I'm glad we got them.

Stop changing the subject. This may be a rant, but you need to keep in one topic, or are you trying to make it confusing for all of us?

Ok continuing. I guess drama and social interaction kept me out of just hopping into a room, I would just be queit anyways just listening to others talking or reading all the chats. I've just been watching out in the Admin skype chat for things I can talk about or have an opinion on, I've mostly been an outside source so I had no bias on if this fight is clearly cause of this person.

You appeared once or twice in a blue moon, if the group happened to catch your interest for an hour or so. If they needed an outside opinion, they could ask....anyone of the many, many members who follow the events without getting involved.
[2:43 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Face it, you blew it. Come over to the member club.

Wait, you weren't ever a member even. You have never been anything but an admin here.
So maybe it's well beyond time for you to sit down and shut up.
[2:44 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: good
[2:44 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: You were supposed to
[2:44 AM] Keinecat: I know I'm demoted
[2:45 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Actually read the Rant Kiene, I read yours.
[2:46 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Show me the same respect I gave you.(edited)
[2:47 AM] Keinecat: You try and defend the people who you want to defend, so do the rest of us. Frainkly, the fact that you have been on and active more right noiw in the entire time since I stepped down, only makes the damned point more valid.   You think I've defend people who I'm like best friends with?
[2:48 AM] Keinecat: Also Civil
[2:48 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Nice ad homs Roy.
[2:51 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: No, but you're more likely to defend someone who you're friends with than not. not like everyone doesn't do that, but atleast most will try to defend the people they don't like if they don't think they are wrong.
Dun, go fuck yourself, I ain't talkign to you, and I'm not about to listen to your 'I'm so much smarter than you all because I think I know how to debate when it's convenient.' Please, tell me, where was the calling yourself out when you were doing it in the town haul?(edited)
[2:51 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: and what, pray tell, do you mean by 'Civil'?
[2:51 AM] Keinecat: Hey
[2:51 AM] Keinecat: Don't be an ass to Dun when he's done nothing to you
[2:51 AM] Uschi: roy chill the fuck out lol
[2:51 AM] Keinecat: Your beef is with me
[2:52 AM] Keinecat: Do not bring others into this
[2:52 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: My beef isn't with you Keine...
[2:52 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: I am agreeing with you...
[2:52 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: He's butting into something that isn't his buisiness.
[2:52 AM] Keinecat: He made one comment
[2:52 AM] Kedata ♧: "Dun, go fuck yourself,"

How is that civil jeez.
[2:52 AM] Uschi: this is the extended discussion.
[2:52 AM] JDCarmine: yeah fam take a breather
[2:52 AM] Uschi: you could take this to pm
[2:52 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Oh wait what the fuck
[2:52 AM] Kedata ♧: This is a chatroom that the public can see, you know.
[2:52 AM] AvalonianSky: Okay, I have to agree with everyone else here Roy.
[2:52 AM] Keksimus Maximus: Guys, PM, seriously
[2:52 AM] Uschi: instead, you want to be an asshole like you are to everyone
[2:53 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Fuck my blindness,but fuck you more Roy. You wanna keep the ad homs going then whatever.
[2:53 AM] Keinecat: HEY
[2:53 AM] Kedata ♧: If you want a one-on-one, PMs.
[2:53 AM] Keinecat: NO ONE ATTACK ANYONE
[2:53 AM] Keinecat: KEEP THIS CIVIL
[2:53 AM] AvalonianSky: OKAY, not so much anymore.
[2:53 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: Chill, and discuss.
[2:53 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Chill the hell out people.
[2:53 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: And cut your "straight shooter" bullshit
[2:53 AM] Keinecat: ffs..
[2:53 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: You're acting like I'm foaming out of the mouth.
[2:53 AM] Purple Reimu: Wow... calm down..
[2:53 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: And getting Far off topic.
[2:53 AM] Uschi: "chill the hell out" thats funny coming from you honestly
[2:53 AM] AvalonianSky: This might just be me but you guys are blowing this way out of proportions.(edited)
[2:54 AM] Keinecat: You did just snap at Dun when your beef is with me. I'm fine if you curse at me, call me useless, whatever.
[2:54 AM] Keinecat: Don't attack others but me.
[2:55 AM] Noraneko Sparks: Ok, that's enough, guys
[2:55 AM] Noraneko Sparks: everyoen STOP
[2:55 AM] Keinecat: I would like to have a civil conversation. Stopping now.
[2:55 AM] Noraneko Sparks: What's even the point of this arguement?
[2:55 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: Dun can butt out with the 'I know debate terms', because they are about as accurate as a storm trooper shooting at Han and Luke.

I didn't put it in Pms, as the Admin chat is open to being seen by everyone, so the response should be as well.(edited)
[2:55 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Fuck yourself in the ass Roy.
[2:55 AM] Keinecat: Dun
[2:55 AM] Noraneko Sparks: oi
[2:55 AM] Keinecat: Stop
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: dun
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: no
[2:56 AM] JDCarmine: oi
[2:56 AM] Spaztique: Dun, that was definitely uncalled for
[2:56 AM] Schrödinger's NinjaSteve: jesus christ guys
[2:56 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: wow I look away for half a minute to write a comment about the colour of a 2hu's undergarments and this place explodes
[2:56 AM] AvalonianSky: I don't know what to say anymore
[2:56 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Well his entire attack was uncalled for.
[2:56 AM] Zui Power (TD): Holy god
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: ok
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: Dun
[2:56 AM] Spaztique: Ideally, never stoop below the level you're debating. Ever.
[2:56 AM] Zui Power (TD): All of you calm down
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: I'm sorry
[2:56 AM] Uschi: honestly roy did start it
[2:56 AM] Keinecat: Listen
[2:56 AM] Keksimus Maximus: Attack the argument, never the person
[2:56 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: It doesn't matter who started it
[2:56 AM] Spaztique: And right now, what we got is a limbo contest, so please, let's just all calm down.
[2:56 AM] Zui Power (TD): Like, all of you need to calm the hell down
[2:56 AM] Zui Power (TD): Holy moly
[2:56 AM] Keinecat: I don't need anyone defending me
[2:56 AM] Noraneko Sparks: but this has finally earned you somethign that has been long coming
[2:57 AM] Noraneko Sparks: But I'll save that for PMs
[2:57 AM] Keinecat: this is the reason shit goes bad in this group cause 2 people are in an arguement
[2:57 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: No, Dun, It is called for, as I was there when most of this was happening. I felt I had enough experience on the matter to call out the ammount of Bs that was being spouted.
[2:57 AM] Keinecat: and everyone takes sides
[2:57 AM] Noraneko Sparks: Roy
[2:57 AM] Noraneko Sparks: you too
[2:57 AM] Noraneko Sparks: I was worried you basically act jsut as bad as them
[2:57 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Calling out an ad hom that is clearly an ad hom is not unaccurate Roy. It is in fact, factually accurate.
[2:57 AM] Keksimus Maximus: Not everyone
[2:57 AM] 100% Orange Jet Set: I said what I needed to say
[2:57 AM] Noraneko Sparks: so, this topic is over, since no one can be civil about it
[2:57 AM] Keksimus Maximus: Agreed
[2:58 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: good christ, please be over
[2:58 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Alright.
[2:58 AM] Keinecat: I'm fine with it.
[2:58 AM] Feraligatr: Oh... i was wondering why this wasn't being discussed in #admins
[2:58 AM] Uschi: life is a fuck.
[2:58 AM] Helian Inaba [Drac] 🌻: >Oh... i was wondering why this wasn't being discussed in #admins
Because we have non-admins weighing in voices.(edited)
[2:58 AM] Spaztique: I need to be going to bed soon as it is, so I'd like all parties calmed down before I go.
[2:59 AM] Noraneko Sparks: uschi, not helpign
[2:59 AM] Noraneko Sparks: anyway
[2:59 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Night Spaz
[2:59 AM] The Harbor of Melancholy: Not that it's worth a haypenny, but I've been too busy having a laugh over something to be bothered, so I'm good.

No salt here.
[2:59 AM] Uschi: yes because randomly saying meow in a serious convo was totally helping too
[2:59 AM] Uschi: :3c
[2:59 AM] Keinecat: Uschi
[2:59 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: ngh...
[2:59 AM] AvalonianSky: what the fuck is actually happening now. I literally can't even(edited)
[2:59 AM] Zui Power (TD): CAN WE PLEASE JUS CALM IT DOWN
[2:59 AM] JDCarmine: omg
[3:00 AM] Zui Power (TD): TOO MUCH FIRE BEING SPAT
[3:00 AM] Zui Power (TD): HOLY MOLY
[3:00 AM] Keinecat: Everyone done.
[3:00 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: Really I was just getting something out there, relating to both Kit and Keine.
[3:00 AM] Puddle Formerly Known as Dun: So...Be back in a minute
[3:01 AM] Kedata ♧: I'm just going to quote myself here.

"If you realize you are getting overly heated about a topic, then I would suggest cooling off and hanging around at another chatroom, and perhaps temporarily mute this one as well."

And people aren't debating properly. Also, it's starting to feel pretty nasty in here. At this rate not letting people talk in this room to have everyone cool down may be needed, possibly.
[3:01 AM] Spaztique: Agreed
[3:01 AM] Keinecat: That is good advice
[3:01 AM] Noraneko Sparks: ok, I've muted this channel for now
[3:01 AM] Keinecat: I will say this PLEASE do not jump onto a side if someone gets in an arguement.
[3:01 AM] Noraneko Sparks: I can't change perms for admins sooooo
[3:02 AM] Noraneko Sparks: keine
[3:02 AM] Noraneko Sparks: shush
[3:02 AM] Keinecat: ohshiti'mdemoted
[3:04 AM] Spaztique: Just a reminder to all members: mods aren't the only ones who can prevent drama like this. It's up to the members to not add any fuel to the fire. It's also up to the members to resolve things civilly and in a calm manner. What happened here is NOT how you do it, and it frankly stands against what this group was built on.
[3:05 AM] Spaztique: As I said previously, the one thing that has helped the WSW is that it's a self-sustaining community, and stuff like this doesn't sustain our community, but rusts the gears.
[3:06 AM] Spaztique: It is possible to call people out without being too harsh, which is exactly what I'm doing right now.
[3:06 AM] Spaztique: But there's also a second part to my calling-out on: it's what we can do in response to what was called out.
[3:06 AM] Spaztique: And that is learn a lesson from what happened tonight.
[3:07 AM] Spaztique: If I asked you all, "Did any of that fighting or name-calling above resolve anything?," the answer should be a resounding, "Hell no!"
[3:07 AM] Spaztique: More so, it's a threat to our group integrity. Ideally, the WSW should be a place to come back to to relax and kick back after a long time, not be another source of drama.
[3:07 AM] Spaztique: And it's up to nobody else but the members to keep it that way.
[3:09 AM] Spaztique: I myself am going to try to get on more often and reignite all the leadership stuff I used to do back when the group faced this kinda trouble before, but it'll be up to everyone else to do something on your own to continue strengthening the bonds of this group.
[3:10 AM] Spaztique: It doesn't take a genius to know this place is facing problems, but I plan to do something about it in a non-violent manner. I'm hoping everyone else is with me on this.
[3:36 AM] Spaztique: Going to bed now, but one last note: don't stress over tonight, because this stuff always seems to work itself out eventually. It's not always going to bed sunshine and rainbows, but the sun always comes out after darkest night; heck, even if it's cloudy and rainy, it's better than pure darkness. In the meantime, continue doing what you've all been doing: making comics, videos, playing games, chatting, and so on.
[3:41 AM] DeityDiz93: At one point or another, we had this back in the Raidcall days, but as the group has grown we haven't been teaching enough people the same values that made us so self-sustaining.
[3:42 AM] DeityDiz93: Spaz is correct here in that many, even somewhat the admins on the team now, are not able to self-sustain enough.