[23:42] <Eklektikos> It occurred to me that it could be interesting to make the principle axis of non-mortal conflict be one of law vs. chaos
[23:43] <Eklektikos> with the pantheon being the guardians/functionaries overseeing the orderly continuance of the world along its standard line
[23:43] <Eklektikos> s
[23:44] <Eklektikos> i.e. the sun rising, the seasons changing, the winds blowing, the tides, whatever
[23:44] <Xaila> Eeenteresting
[23:45] <Xaila> I've played around with systems with a sort of similar scale
[23:46] <Eklektikos> and have the outsider types be kind of avatars of entropy and chaos from beyond reality, or something of the sort
[23:47] <Xaila> yeah I've rolled with that before
[23:47] <Xaila> it was kind of at the core of my last failgame
[23:47] <Eklektikos> creatures whose very presence represent a threat to the established order of the world, whether benevolent or malevolent
[23:48] <Xaila> which heavily involved fey and the lines between the real world/notrealworld
[23:48] <Xaila> and the people who wanted to tear it all open and pure chaos and those who wanted to maintain the balance
[23:48] <Eklektikos> (and are also rarely if ever encountered in the world unless summoned by a mortal to grant him/her illicit power)
[23:51] <Eklektikos> The gods themselves wouldn't necessarily be examplars of lawfulness
[23:51] <Xaila> eyah
[23:51] <Xaila> yeah
[23:52] <Eklektikos> i.e. they'd take their duties seriously, but might well feud amongst themselves or favour/bear grudges against particular mortals and so forth
[23:52] <Eklektikos> along the lines of the Greek pantheon, really
[23:54] <Eklektikos> with most of the drama of the epic-er scale drama of the setting involving such feuds and so forth
[23:54] <Xaila> Fun!
[23:54] <Xaila> Maybe.
[23:55] <Eklektikos> Whereas dealings with the avatars of chaos would be much rarer and wholly illicit
[23:55] <Xaila> Even funner!
[23:56] <Eklektikos> i.e. the sort of thing the gods would pt aside their differences to see stamped out
[23:57] <Eklektikos> but potentially granting individuals very great power indeed
[23:58] <Eklektikos> (or if the individual trying to summon and control one fucks it up, potentially releasing a very powerful force for subversion of the ordained order of things into the world)
[23:59] <Xaila> That could prove interesting/possibly viable for a smallish module
[00:00] <Eklektikos> That's my thought, yes
[00:00] <Eklektikos> Order/Chaos has always been by far the more interesting alignment axis, IMO
[00:01] <Eklektikos> because it's the one that relates to the real world far better
[00:06] <Xaila> yes.
[00:07] <Xaila> A bit easier to define
[00:07] <Eklektikos> and less likely to produce absurd fantasy stereotypes
[00:07] <Eklektikos> (or so I hope!)
[00:07] <Xaila> good/evil in DnD seems to do so, yes
[00:08] <Eklektikos> I was also thinking that Proper Monastaries could be cool
[00:10] <Xaila> Interesting thought
[00:12] <Eklektikos> i.e. closed, ritualistic societies dedicated to things like warding off the chaos beings, protecting/keeping some artefact of significance or performing some other function perhaps mandated by a god for some reason
[12:41] <Eklektikos> It also occurred to me
[12:42] <Eklektikos> that perhaps certain magic could be tied to this howling void outside reality in some manner
[12:43] <Eklektikos> negative energy necromancy, for example
[12:43] <Eklektikos> negative energy being entropic by nature
[12:44] <Eklektikos> Which would then make it something illicit and unholy and dangerous (i.e. using too much of it might open a hole in the world through which a chaos avatar could enter)
[12:46] <kthxbye> Conjuring creatures too.
[12:46] <kthxbye> Or psionics!
[12:47] <Eklektikos> Or a certain defined subset of each
[12:48] <kthxbye> Yus
[12:48] <kthxbye> That would also fit with going with the abolishing of the alignment system.
[12:48] <Eklektikos> To a degree, yes
[12:49] <Eklektikos> though this is more of an Order/Chaos oriented setting idea
[12:49] <kthxbye> Yep, but creatures can be all TN (or rather, characters)
[12:50] <Eklektikos> Mm. I've pondered that a bit further
[12:51] <Eklektikos> and it's certainly a possibility for this
[12:51] <Eklektikos> though it would require some messing about with certain classes to make them playable
[12:52] <Eklektikos> Monk, for example
[12:52] <kthxbye> That's not a problem, it's just removing restrictions.
[12:53] <Eklektikos> My other thought was that it might be possible to redo protection from good/evil to fulfil the same function vs Law/Chaos instead
[12:54] <Eklektikos> Since for better or for worse, I do seem to have brought alignment back into things
[12:54] <Eklektikos> just with the emphasis shifted to the more interesting and less cartoonish axis
[12:55] <kthxbye> If we keep creatures native of the Prime TN that would be less of an alignment spell and more of a "plane" thing
[12:56] <Eklektikos> Weeell
[12:56] <kthxbye> It would work only against outsiders, making it much less controversial for players.
[12:56] <Eklektikos> with what I have in mind
[12:56] <Eklektikos> Hrm
[12:56] <Eklektikos> No, actually, I think you're on the money
[12:57] <Eklektikos> the point of these outsiders, incidentally
[12:57] <Eklektikos> would be that they are incredibly rarely encountered to the point of being mythical
[12:58] <Eklektikos> and individually veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery powerful
[12:59] <kthxbye> More or less like proper deities & demon lords?
[12:59] <Eklektikos> i.e the presence of just one of them fully manifest on the prime plane would be a harbinger of apocalypse
[13:01] <Eklektikos> Or at least considered to be so by the mortal population
[13:02] <Eklektikos> In fact...
[13:02] <Eklektikos> hrm.
[13:03] <Eklektikos> world creation myth/setting backdrop idea ahoy
[13:12] <Eklektikos> Ebon is the last world left of what was once a multitude of such worlds. The gods had ruled over this universe for an eternity, until on some far distant world an event occurs that unleashes the howling entropic void from... elsewhere.
[13:16] <Eklektikos> One by one the worlds are rent asunder by, unimaginable horrors, creatures of astounding beauty and everything between. Unable to save their entire domain, the gods retreat to Ebon and create a ritual to be enacted by the turning of the very world itself.
[13:18] <Eklektikos> The rise and fall of the sun and tide, the growth of the corn and the withering of the leaves, all are bound into the great work of the gods, which shields Ebon alone from the forces that have consumed all around it
[13:19] <kthxbye> That would also fit with the escaping to new lands.
[13:20] <Eklektikos> The gods themselves, settled upon their lofty peak / world tree / mystical badger, oversee that all such things continue as they must
[13:20] <kthxbye> Maybe the world is falling, and some minor outsiders are managing to come over. Old lands are ravaged by war, famine & fighting against those.
[13:25] <Eklektikos> and over time, as the beings without have tested the resiliance of Ebon's ward, the gods also found it necessary to guide men to found the great monastaries, whose ritual practices and devotion serve to bolster the will of the gods and lock away artefacts whose power threaten to destabilise the world
[13:26] <Eklektikos> Perversely, I'd prefer not to make the world actually revolve directly around this stuff
[13:26] <Eklektikos> bear with me. ;)
[13:27] <Eklektikos> Actually, to come out of declamatory mode
[13:27] <Eklektikos> this is more an explanation of why the gods are there, doing what they do
[13:29] <Eklektikos> I still think that it will be more interesting to make the bulk of the more epic stories revolve around the feuds of the gods and their favouring and punishing of mortals
[13:30] <Eklektikos> in a sort of Homeric style
[13:33] <Eklektikos> Because frankly, a pantheon of hugely powerful beings who have spent an eternity with a universe's worth of space over which to rule....
[13:33] <Eklektikos> ...are probably going to get pretty stir-crazy when finding themselves all cooped up together on one single world~
[13:35] <Eklektikos> The outsiders should be more the legendary lurking threat
[13:36] <Eklektikos> something that many people perhaps doubt are even real by this point
[13:43] * kthxbye fights with appearance.2da merges
[13:44] <kthxbye> I like the idea~
[13:45] <kthxbye> It allows to both go with very distant outsiders, or a thinner wall between the chaotic plane & the world with consequent low power outsiders coming into the world with the aid of rituals.
[13:45] <kthxbye> (Which would end up with characters being tricked by them to open portals, characters trying to bind them to gain power, etc)
[14:04] <Eklektikos> and an inherent conflict between those who attempt such things and the morality of the world's dominant society