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Apr 4th, 2011
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  1. 2:15:30 PM n0nick: ok, i'll try to go over my questions quickly then
  2. 2:15:49 PM spectie: ok
  3. 2:16:35 PM n0nick: spectie, i changed my application re your comment about frequency lists. i think it'd be better to use just a maltese one, and build the hebrew one according to it
  4. 2:17:00 PM spectie: ok
  5. 2:17:01 PM spectie: cool
  6. 2:17:24 PM n0nick: you might have not noticed in the updated draft
  7. 2:17:35 PM n0nick: but does it sound like a good idea to you?
  8. 2:17:45 PM spectie: yes it does
  9. 2:17:58 PM n0nick: great
  10. 2:18:27 PM n0nick: now, as for parallel corpora - i didn't understand your question about translating the bible into hebrew
  11. 2:19:00 PM gantu: spectie, Could you please repeat about your comments i did not get you.
  12. Thyge left the room (quit: Changing host). (2:19:20 PM)
  13. Thyge [~Thyge@wikipedia/Sir48] entered the room. (2:19:20 PM)
  14. Thyge is now known as Sir48 (2:19:26 PM)
  15. 2:19:26 PM spectie: n0nick, where are you expecting to find a parallel corpus of maltese--hebrew ?
  16. 2:20:03 PM spectie: gantu, if the inflection is on the last word, then you just need to repace ' ' with '<b/>'
  17. 2:20:17 PM n0nick: spectie, i didn't research that part well enough. but as you said the bible could be a good source
  18. 2:20:51 PM gantu: spectie, ok , i see it on dix file
  19. 2:21:24 PM n0nick: spectie, the bible was written in hebrew, so i didn't understand the question about translating to it
  20. 2:21:25 PM spectie: n0nick, and my question was "do they bother to translate the new testament into hebrew"
  21. 2:21:37 PM n0nick: spectie, oh, sure
  22. 2:21:52 PM spectie:
  23. 2:21:57 PM spectie: not all of it was in hebrew right ?
  24. 2:22:02 PM spectie: (i'm not ever so religious, so i could be wrong)
  25. 2:22:14 PM n0nick: well me neither
  26. 2:22:24 PM n0nick: i think it's a mix of languages from that time
  27. 2:22:32 PM n0nick: but all is availabe in hebrew
  28. 2:22:41 PM Sir48: greek, among others
  29. 2:22:45 PM spectie: in any case, even if you have the bible, there will still be a lot of manual work
  30. 2:22:53 PM Sir48: aramitic?
  31. 2:23:07 PM spectie: aramaic
  32. 2:23:14 PM Sir48: thx
  33. 2:23:21 PM gantu: spectie, any changes should i make application page?
  34. 2:23:42 PM spectie: you didn't answer my question
  35. 2:23:52 PM spectie: Part-of-speech could be extracted by using trmorph (open-source Turkish morphological analyser).
  36. 2:23:56 PM spectie: And if the words are ambiguous for stem/POS ? - Francis Tyers
  37. 2:24:38 PM gantu: spectie, really i do not have idea about it.
  38. 2:24:46 PM n0nick: spectie, what kind of manual work
  39. 2:24:52 PM spectie: n0nick, adding dictionary entries
  40. 2:25:16 PM spectie: gantu, then think about it
  41. 2:25:41 PM n0nick: ok so how should i plan this?
  42. 2:26:02 PM spectie: n0nick, basically if you're making the maltese morphological analyser from the frequency list
  43. 2:26:12 PM spectie: you'll also want to be looking at the translations at the same time
  44. 2:26:18 PM spectie: you'll need a translation for every word in the maltese dictionary
  45. 2:26:55 PM n0nick: spectie, how do you usually go about that?
  46. 2:27:03 PM spectie: either you "know"
  47. 2:27:17 PM n0nick: spectie, what is a good size for a frequency list?
  48. 2:27:20 PM spectie: <e><p><l>kultura<s n="n"/><s n="f"/></l><r>תרבות<s n="n"/><s n="f"/></r></p></e>
  49. 2:27:25 PM spectie: if you see 'kultura' in maltese
  50. 2:27:32 PM spectie: i guess you can work out the hebrew translation
  51. 2:27:34 PM spectie:
  52. 2:27:39 PM spectie: or you look it up in a dictionary
  53. 2:28:02 PM n0nick: i understand
  54. 2:28:17 PM n0nick: what in general is a good scope for the dictionaries?
  55. 2:28:37 PM spectie: 4-5k entries
  56. 2:28:48 PM spectie: proper names can be added semi-automatically
  57. 2:29:40 PM spectie: and if you have the bible
  58. 2:29:48 PM spectie: you can tag it
  59. 2:29:49 PM spectie: align it
  60. 2:29:54 PM spectie: and then get a probabilistic list
  61. 2:29:57 PM spectie: and postedit it
  62. 2:30:02 PM spectie: (e.g. read though and fix the bad translations
  63. 2:30:30 PM n0nick: spectie, is this what i called "making bilingual dictionary entries"?
  64. 2:30:36 PM spectie: yeah
  65. 2:31:07 PM n0nick: obviously i can't estimate my rate for this
  66. 2:31:31 PM n0nick: how can i know how much time would 4k entires take me?
  67. GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] entered the room. (2:31:56 PM)
  68. 2:33:23 PM spectie: n0nick, what i suggested to gantu
  69. 2:33:27 PM spectie: was to time yourself for ten minutes
  70. 2:33:30 PM spectie: and see how many you can add
  71. 2:33:32 PM spectie: and extrapolate
  72. 2:34:02 PM n0nick: time myself doing what? i don't have the source materials yet
  73. 2:34:28 PM spectie: get a maltese--english dictionary
  74. 2:34:41 PM spectie: or just do words that are easy
  75. 2:35:05 PM spectie: https://apertium.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/apertium/incubator/apertium-mt-he/dev/mt-he.interwiki.xml
  76. 2:35:15 PM spectie: i generated this from interwiki links mt->he
  77. 2:35:21 PM spectie: i'm doing the same he->mt now
  78. 2:35:31 PM spectie: n0nick, for the first list i just copied the gender from mt->he
  79. 2:35:34 PM spectie: so it is likely wrong
  80. 2:36:07 PM n0nick: spectie, are you sure it's committed? can't see it
  81. 2:36:24 PM spectie:
  82. 2:36:28 PM spectie: yeah, not committed
  83. 2:37:02 PM n0nick: is the reason you asked about the timing because you think the schedule isn't realistic?
  84. 2:37:11 PM spectie: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Maltese_nouns
  85. 2:37:28 PM spectie: you could get some nouns from here too
  86. 2:37:29 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29434 /incubator/apertium-mt-he/dev/mt-he.interwiki.xml: ooops
  87. 2:37:34 PM spectie: most of them have gender on the maltese side
  88. 2:37:42 PM spectie: n0nick, i would like you to be convinced that the schedule is realistic
  89. 2:39:14 PM n0nick: <s n="f"/> means female?
  90. 2:39:39 PM spectie: yeah
  91. 2:39:48 PM n0nick: only one mistake
  92. 2:39:52 PM spectie: cool
  93. krvoje [~krvoje@155-104.dsl.iskon.hr] entered the room. (2:40:47 PM)
  94. 2:40:51 PM n0nick: spectie, i have a problem
  95. 2:41:01 PM spectie: ok
  96. haydarekarrar [~haydareka@leodis-pc249-250.student-halls.leeds.ac.uk] entered the room. (2:41:03 PM)
  97. 2:41:05 PM n0nick: i'm not sure if i'll have enough time to finish with all the requirements
  98. 2:41:10 PM spectie: why ?
  99. 2:41:31 PM n0nick: well i have school and work
  100. 2:41:38 PM n0nick: i can probably fix most of the things
  101. 2:41:48 PM n0nick: regarding documentation in the application
  102. 2:41:49 PM spectie: I am certain I will have more than 35 free hours to develop for Apertium.
  103. 2:42:01 PM n0nick: yes, in the summer
  104. 2:42:02 PM spectie: if you have 30-40 hours/week
  105. 2:42:04 PM spectie: you should be able to do it
  106. 2:42:13 PM spectie: oh
  107. 2:42:14 PM spectie: which requirements ?
  108. 2:42:18 PM n0nick: oh sorry
  109. 2:42:21 PM spectie: you're talking before the application ?
  110. 2:42:24 PM n0nick: i meant now
  111. 2:42:32 PM spectie: ah
  112. 2:42:34 PM spectie: which requirements ?
  113. 2:42:44 PM n0nick: the ones you mention in your comments
  114. 2:42:56 PM n0nick: i understand why they would make my application better
  115. 2:43:02 PM n0nick: and i can fix most things that relate to the text
  116. 2:43:19 PM n0nick: but as for the actual development & prototyping work, i'm not sure
  117. 2:43:55 PM gantu: spectie, http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Lexical_selection_in_target_language
  118. 2:44:08 PM spectie: let me look at my comments
  119. 2:44:12 PM spectie: gantu, no
  120. 2:44:14 PM spectie: gantu, no no no no
  121. 2:44:19 PM spectie: gantu, this is not what i'm talking about
  122. 2:44:28 PM gantu: spectie,
  123. 2:44:34 PM spectie: gantu, i'm talking about ambiguity between stem and pos when you are tagging the stardict dictionray
  124. 2:44:36 PM spectie: *dictionary
  125. 2:44:38 PM spectie: n0nick, let me see
  126. 2:44:45 PM gantu: spectie, i see
  127. 2:46:07 PM spectie: n0nick,
  128. 2:46:07 PM spectie: Could you give more details of what was done with the Hebrew analyser
  129. 2:46:07 PM spectie: generated from Hspell ? E.g. which categories have been generated, how
  130. 2:46:07 PM spectie: many entries, what coverage etc. Also, do you think you will have time
  131. 2:46:07 PM spectie: to add the verbs ?
  132. 2:46:07 PM spectie:
  133. 2:46:09 PM spectie: you can forget about this bit
  134. 2:46:21 PM spectie: if you don't have time
  135. 2:46:25 PM spectie: but, i really think that
  136. 2:46:25 PM spectie: I would be interested in seeing some small evaluation of existing MT
  137. 2:46:25 PM spectie: systems for mt-he (e.g. Google translate) and their strong points and
  138. 2:46:25 PM spectie: weaknesses... How do you think a rule-based system based on Apertium
  139. 2:46:25 PM spectie: might compare ?
  140. 2:46:26 PM spectie:
  141. 2:46:29 PM spectie: would be interesting to comment on
  142. 2:46:39 PM spectie: and shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes
  143. 2:46:52 PM n0nick: okay
  144. 2:47:03 PM spectie: for example:
  145. 2:47:08 PM spectie: Il-Malti huwa l-uniku lsien ta'oriġini semitika li jinkiteb b' ittri Latini.
  146. 2:47:13 PM spectie: מלטזית היא שפה שמית ממוצא רק כי הוא נכתב באותיות לטיניות.
  147. 2:47:14 PM spectie:
  148. 2:47:25 PM n0nick: oh yeah this is bad
  149. 2:47:33 PM n0nick: is this from google?
  150. 2:47:36 PM spectie: yes
  151. 2:47:43 PM spectie: i have a feeling that it is going through english
  152. 2:47:53 PM spectie: the english gloss of the sentence (in case you can't understand the maltese) is:
  153. 2:47:59 PM spectie: The-Maltese is the-only language of origin semitic that is.written in letters latin.
  154. 2:48:04 PM n0nick: yes i remember the sentence from the english wiki
  155. 2:48:10 PM n0nick: the hebrew gloss is
  156. 2:48:35 PM n0nick: The-Maltese is language semitic only because it's-written in-letters latin
  157. 2:49:03 PM spectie: and is "it's-written" grammatical ?
  158. 2:49:07 PM n0nick: no
  159. 2:49:10 PM n0nick: it's the wrong gender
  160. 2:49:25 PM spectie: ok
  161. 2:49:35 PM spectie: do you think you could make a grammatical hebrew sentence
  162. 2:49:37 PM spectie: using rules
  163. 2:49:39 PM spectie: from the maltese sentence ?
  164. 2:50:40 PM spectie: well, first could you give me the "real hebrew"
  165. 2:50:51 PM n0nick: well honestly i have no background to answer this question
  166. 2:51:08 PM spectie: so let's talk about it now
  167. 2:51:20 PM n0nick: מלטזית היא השפה ממוצא שמי היחידה הנכתבת באותיות לטיניות
  168. 2:51:56 PM spectie: mljzit hia hsph mmwca smi hixidh hnktbt bawtiwt ljiniwt
  169. 2:51:57 PM spectie:
  170. 2:51:59 PM spectie: so
  171. 2:52:30 PM gantu: spectie, it means i must deal with transfer rules?
  172. 2:52:30 PM spectie: Maltese is language only semitic ? ? letters latin.
  173. 2:52:35 PM spectie: gantu, no
  174. 2:52:56 PM spectie: gantu, tell you what
  175. 2:53:02 PM spectie: gantu, take ten items from the list
  176. 2:53:03 PM n0nick: spectie, where is this text from?
  177. 2:53:06 PM spectie: gantu, and try and tag with trmorph
  178. 2:53:11 PM spectie: n0nick, which text ?
  179. 2:53:18 PM n0nick: the last translation you posted
  180. 2:53:19 PM spectie: the transliteration ? (http://www.iosart.com/nlp/heb_enc_dec.html)
  181. 2:53:29 PM spectie: i can't read hebrew yet
  182. 2:53:38 PM spectie: so it helps to have the latin letters
  183. 2:53:40 PM n0nick:
  184. 2:53:45 PM spectie: and "Maltese is language only semitic ? ? letters latin."
  185. 2:53:46 PM n0nick: i meant
  186. 2:53:47 PM spectie: this was my gloss
  187. 2:53:56 PM n0nick: oh, where from?
  188. 2:53:57 PM spectie: i don't know what 'hixidh' and 'hnktbt' are
  189. 2:54:01 PM spectie: i made it mysef
  190. 2:54:02 PM spectie: *myself
  191. 2:54:03 PM n0nick: oh cool
  192. 2:54:04 PM n0nick: !
  193. 2:54:07 PM spectie: is it wrong ?
  194. 2:54:09 PM n0nick: sorry, i should have given you a gloss
  195. 2:54:24 PM spectie: it is wrong
  196. 2:54:25 PM spectie: i missed 'the'
  197. 2:54:36 PM n0nick: maltese is the-language of-origin semitic the-only the-written in-letters latin
  198. 2:54:43 PM spectie: aha
  199. 2:54:44 PM spectie: better
  200. 2:54:45 PM spectie: thanks
  201. 2:55:05 PM spectie: The-Maltese is the-only language of origin semitic that is.written in letters latin.
  202. 2:55:43 PM spectie: so there are noun phrase differences
  203. 2:55:44 PM spectie:
  204. 2:56:02 PM spectie: "the-only language of origin semitic" vs. "the-language of-origin semitic the-only"
  205. 2:56:17 PM n0nick: yes
  206. 2:56:28 PM spectie: and there is a difference with definiteness for languages (Maltese vs. "The-Maltese")
  207. 2:56:40 PM spectie: and in the subclause
  208. 2:56:44 PM spectie: i'm not sure what is going on
  209. 2:56:44 PM spectie:
  210. 2:57:00 PM n0nick: well
  211. 2:57:03 PM spectie: let me see
  212. 2:57:05 PM n0nick: that is.written is also valid
  213. 2:57:17 PM CIA-26: hfst: hardwick * r1216 /trunk/hfst3/libhfst/src/ (HfstSymbolDefs.cc HfstSymbolDefs.h): Pass strings to internal representation checking functions by reference
  214. 2:57:30 PM spectie: i'm not sure my analysis of 'jinkiteb' is right
  215. 2:57:52 PM CIA-26: hfst: hardwick * r1217 /trunk/hfst3/libhfst/src/implementations/ConvertTransducerFormat.cc: Use library function to check for epsilon in to_ol
  216. Lom [~Lom@iki.een.bris.ac.uk] entered the room. (3:00:36 PM)
  217. 3:00:51 PM spectie: hmm, maybe it is a different verb
  218. 3:01:08 PM n0nick: different from what?
  219. 3:01:33 PM spectie: perhaps the verb is 'inkiteb' not 'kiteb'
  220. 3:02:52 PM n0nick: my guess is kiteb is 'write', inkiteb 'written'
  221. 3:03:06 PM n0nick: similar to arabic
  222. 3:03:35 PM spectie: 'inkiteb' seems to mean 'inscribe'/'enscribe' too
  223. 3:04:19 PM gantu: spectie, i'v done what you told
  224. 3:04:23 PM spectie: gantu, great
  225. 3:04:29 PM spectie: gantu, did you have any problems ?
  226. 3:04:36 PM spectie: gantu, can you show me on www.pastebin.com how you did it ?
  227. 3:04:42 PM gantu: spectie, sure
  228. 3:05:29 PM gantu: spectie, http://pastebin.com/PCeigqNg
  229. 3:05:33 PM spectie: it would be useful to already have a grammar of maltese
  230. 3:05:54 PM spectie: gantu, ok, do you see the problem ?
  231. 3:06:11 PM gantu: spectie, so it is giving more than one output
  232. 3:06:16 PM spectie: gantu, exactly
  233. 3:06:28 PM spectie: it should give all valid outputs
  234. 3:06:32 PM spectie: gantu, and because you only have a wordlist
  235. 3:06:39 PM spectie: gantu, you don't have any context to choose from
  236. 3:06:46 PM gantu: spectie, you are right
  237. 3:07:05 PM spectie: n0nick, so, perhaps we can leave that one
  238. 3:07:26 PM spectie: n0nick, and you can just think of the rule for the translation of 'uniku'
  239. 3:07:37 PM spectie: n0nick, does "uniku" always go at the end of the NP in hebrew ?
  240. 3:07:50 PM spectie: and are there other adjectives that do that ?
  241. 3:07:57 PM spectie: (or adverbs)
  242. 3:08:06 PM n0nick: specte, what's uniku?
  243. 3:08:15 PM spectie: 'only'
  244. 3:08:16 PM spectie: unique
  245. 3:08:20 PM spectie:
  246. 3:08:24 PM n0nick: oh
  247. 3:08:26 PM spectie: do you speak a romance language ?
  248. 3:08:32 PM n0nick: no
  249. 3:08:49 PM spectie: ok
  250. 3:08:58 PM spectie: so some things might seem clearer to me than to you
  251. 3:09:01 PM gantu: spectie, it means i must provide some context?
  252. 3:09:05 PM spectie: gantu, no
  253. 3:09:10 PM spectie: gantu, it means you have to choose the right analysis
  254. 3:10:15 PM n0nick: spectie, adjectives and averbs are mostly at the end of NP
  255. 3:10:24 PM spectie: ok
  256. 3:10:39 PM spectie: but even skipping over genitives
  257. 3:10:46 PM spectie: "the-only language of origin semitic"
  258. 3:10:46 PM spectie: "the-language of-origin semitic the-only"
  259. 3:10:49 PM spectie:
  260. 3:11:04 PM spectie: i might have expected "the language-only of origin semitic"
  261. 3:11:11 PM spectie: but the 'only gets pushed right to the end
  262. Lom left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (3:12:03 PM)
  263. 3:12:13 PM n0nick: both forms are valid
  264. 3:12:22 PM n0nick: i might have given the wrong form then
  265. 3:12:36 PM spectie: Il-Malti huwa l-uniku lsien ta'oriġini semitika li jinkiteb b' ittri Latini.
  266. 3:12:41 PM spectie: The-Maltese is the-only language of origin semitic that is.written in letters latin.
  267. 3:12:43 PM spectie:
  268. 3:12:45 PM spectie: let's try again
  269. Lom [~Lom@iki.een.bris.ac.uk] entered the room. (3:13:44 PM)
  270. 3:14:17 PM spectie: n0nick, try and make a translation that is as word-for-word as possible while still being proper hebrew
  271. krvoje left the room ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"). (3:14:29 PM)
  272. 3:14:31 PM CIA-26: apertium: n0nick * r29435 /incubator/apertium-mt-he/dev/mt-he.interwiki.xml: fixing errors on hebrew side
  273. 3:14:33 PM CIA-26: apertium: garbine * r29436 /trunk/apertium-eu-eu_bis/ (3 files): Eleka
  274. krvoje [~krvoje@155-104.dsl.iskon.hr] entered the room. (3:15:56 PM)
  275. krvoje left the room (quit: Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/). (3:16:33 PM)
  276. krvoje [~krvoje@155-104.dsl.iskon.hr] entered the room. (3:17:27 PM)
  277. 3:18:12 PM n0nick: Maltese is the-language the-only of-origin semitic that-is-written in-letters latin
  278. 3:18:20 PM spectie: cool
  279. 3:18:30 PM spectie: and in hebrew (+transliteration)
  280. 3:19:35 PM gantu: spectie, i am stuck
  281. 3:19:40 PM spectie: gantu, oh ?
  282. 3:20:05 PM gantu: spectie, about choosing the analysis
  283. 3:20:05 PM n0nick: מלטזית היא השפה היחידה ממוצא שמי שכתובה באותיות לטיניות
  284. 3:21:12 PM spectie: gantu, well, it is difficult to do
  285. 3:21:23 PM spectie: gantu, you basically have to do it manually i think
  286. 3:21:46 PM spectie: gantu, you could write some script that discards analyses which are not valid stems
  287. 3:22:06 PM spectie: gantu, for example if you have a noun, and the analyses are: "noun, 3s" , verb + derivation + personal suffix
  288. 3:22:15 PM spectie: and "noun"
  289. 3:22:26 PM spectie: then you could discard the first two, because they are inflected forms, and not valid stems
  290. 3:22:43 PM spectie: gantu, i guess the stem output by the analyser should also match the surface form
  291. 3:23:32 PM gantu: spectie, so according to stem i can generate from morph generator.
  292. 3:24:23 PM gantu: spectie, i get some idea, let me think on it some.
  293. 3:24:27 PM spectie: ok
  294. 3:25:55 PM gantu: spectie, could you look at this
  295. 3:25:57 PM gantu: Ahmet<np>/Ахмет<np><ant><m>$ ^ders<n><p2s><dat>/сабак<n><p2s><dat>$ ^çalış<v><cv>/иште<v><cv>/оку<v><cv>/аракет кыл<v><cv>$
  296. 3:26:06 PM spectie: yes
  297. 3:26:29 PM gantu: echo "Ahmet dersine çalışıyor." | apertium -d . tr-ky-bil
  298. 3:26:36 PM spectie: i will fix it
  299. 3:26:40 PM gantu: it means Ahmet is studying
  300. 3:28:06 PM spectie: $ echo "Ahmet dersine çalışıyor." | apertium -d . tr-ky-bil
  301. 3:28:06 PM spectie: ^Ahmet<np>/Ахмет<np><ant><m>$ ^ders<n><p2s><dat>/сабак<n><p2s><dat>$ ^çalış<v><cv>/иште<v><cv>$.
  302. 3:28:12 PM spectie: $ echo "Ahmet dersine çalışıyor." | apertium -d . tr-ky
  303. 3:28:12 PM spectie: #Ахмет #сабак #иште.
  304. 3:28:38 PM gantu: nice
  305. 3:28:52 PM spectie: $ echo "Ahmet dersine çalışıyor." | apertium -d . tr-ky-transfer
  306. 3:28:53 PM spectie: ^Ахмет<np><ant><m>$ ^сабак<n><p2s><dat>$ ^иште<v><cv>$.
  307. 3:29:05 PM zfe: that looks "broken turkish"
  308. 3:29:09 PM zfe: if you wanted to mean
  309. 3:29:13 PM zfe: that ahmet is studying
  310. 3:29:21 PM zfe: "ahmet ders calishiyor" is far better
  311. 3:29:26 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29437 /incubator/apertium-tr-ky/ (Makefile lexchoicebil.xsl): update makefile
  312. 3:30:07 PM gantu: spectie, the ky outputs meaning is Ahmet is working on his lesson.
  313. 3:30:12 PM spectie: ok
  314. 3:31:30 PM gantu: trmorph anayzes are çalış<3s><v><t_cont><3s>
  315. 3:31:30 PM gantu: çalış<v><cv>
  316. 3:32:05 PM spectie: ok
  317. 3:32:16 PM spectie: ^Ahmet/Ahmet<np>/Ahmet<np><3s>$ ^dersine/ders<n><p2s><dat>/ders<n><p2s><dat><3s>/ders<n><p3s><dat>/ders<n><p3s><dat><3s>$ ^çalışıyor/çalış<v><cv>/çalış<v><t_cont><3s>$.
  318. 3:32:16 PM spectie:
  319. 3:32:18 PM spectie: here are your analyses
  320. 3:32:26 PM spectie: $ echo "Ahmet dersine çalışıyor." | apertium -d . tr-ky-tagger
  321. 3:32:26 PM spectie: ^Ahmet<np>$ ^ders<n><p2s><dat>$ ^çalış<v><cv>$.
  322. 3:32:26 PM spectie:
  323. 3:32:30 PM spectie: here is what is output from the tagger
  324. 3:32:48 PM spectie: i don't know what 'cv' is
  325. 3:33:06 PM gantu: Converb markers
  326. 3:33:11 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29438 /incubator/apertium-tr-ky/apertium-tr-ky.ky.lexc: add one proper name
  327. 3:33:14 PM gantu: trmorph says
  328. 3:33:22 PM spectie: what is that ?
  329. 3:33:35 PM zfe: converd
  330. 3:33:37 PM zfe: converb marker
  331. 3:33:54 PM gantu: here is the definition form trmorph:
  332. 3:33:55 PM gantu: These makers form subordinating clauses with adverbial function. Most of the suffixes that form converbs can also form other forms of subordination (verbal nouns and participles). Normally, the converbial markers has a restricted context, i.e., they serve as cv only if they are followed by certain morphemes or words (particles). Current version of TRmorph does not fully restrict these.
  333. 3:34:08 PM spectie: ok
  334. 3:34:15 PM spectie: so we can remove them if there is no following word
  335. 3:35:21 PM gantu: so the result is i must write some script which will help user to select correct analyze from trmorph right?
  336. 3:35:28 PM spectie: no
  337. 3:35:44 PM spectie: i write a constraint grammar rule
  338. 3:35:48 PM spectie: gantu, go and install constraint grammar
  339. 3:35:55 PM gantu: it is installed
  340. 3:35:58 PM spectie: gantu, and check out the tr-az language pair
  341. 3:36:02 PM spectie: https://apertium.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/apertium/incubator/apertium-tr-az
  342. 3:36:41 PM spectie: $ ln -s /home/fran/source/apertium/incubator/apertium-tr-az/apertium-tr-az.tr-az.rlx apertium-tr-ky.tr-ky.rlx
  343. 3:38:00 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29439 /incubator/apertium-tr-az/apertium-tr-az.tr-az.rlx: +1 rule
  344. Unhammer [~user@105.79-160-125.customer.lyse.net] entered the room. (3:39:06 PM)
  345. 3:39:20 PM spectie: hey Unhammer
  346. 3:39:32 PM gantu: done
  347. 3:39:33 PM CIA-26: hfst: hardwick * r1218 /trunk/hfst3/ (configure.ac libhfst/src/Makefile.am): Prepare bugfix release 3.0.1
  348. 3:39:41 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29439 /incubator/apertium-tr-az/apertium-tr-az.tr-az.rlx: +1 rule
  349. 3:39:42 PM Unhammer: hi
  350. 3:39:43 PM CIA-26: apertium: spectre360 * r29440 /incubator/apertium-tr-ky/ (modes.xml Makefile): update makefile and modes
  351. 3:39:45 PM Unhammer: net dropping here
  352. 3:39:51 PM spectie: gantu, now svn update
  353. 3:40:28 PM gantu: done
  354. 3:41:06 PM spectie: n0nick, there ?
  355. 3:41:29 PM n0nick: yes
  356. 3:41:39 PM spectie: n0nick, how is it going ?
  357. 3:41:51 PM spectie: i need to go to russian in about 15 mins
  358. 3:41:53 PM spectie: any other questions ?
  359. 3:42:04 PM n0nick: well i'll make the changes we discussed in the document
  360. 3:42:09 PM CIA-26: hfst: hardwick * r1219 /trunk/hfst3/NEWS: 3.0.1 release news
  361. Lom left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (3:42:17 PM)
  362. 3:42:24 PM n0nick: i'll try showcasing results in google translate etc
  363. 3:42:36 PM n0nick: i think i'll be ok, thx
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