[03:37] AA: Do you remember when I said I had a write-up document of all her abilities?
[03:37] GI: I think so?
[03:37] AA: I imagine you now understand that level of foresight, beyond the occassional reference.
[03:37] GI: That would be helpful in this situation
[03:37] AA: Tell me, barring the two misunderstandings, where I crossed the line here.
[03:38] AA: Because I thought I was being overly simplistic and fair with basic physical damages.
[03:38] AA: Not even lethal blows.
[03:38] AA: I /fucking tried/.
[03:38] AA: I told you I would!
[03:38] GI: The regeneration is a bit much.
[03:38] GI: Like, having regeneration at all
[03:38] AA: It's not as fast as they thought though.
[03:38] GI: is very off putting
[03:38] AA: Being off put and being unstoppable are not the same damn thing.
[03:38] GI: She's unphased by lasers and lightning though.
[03:38] AA: They're allowed to be weary.
[03:39] AA: Yes. She's also unphased by a train hitting her right now. It won't make the damage vanish any faster.
[03:39] AA: "Not feeling pain" is not OP.
[03:39] AA: Or is it here?
[03:39] GI: how is she unphased by it
[03:39] GI: yeah, not feeling pain is a Rage thing
[03:39] GI: or a form of Life manipulation
[03:39] GI: editing a beings biology
[03:39] AA: No. Pain is a construct of the mind. A result of nerve endings and electrical stimuli going to and from the brain.
[03:40] AA: I told you yesterday, this is the part where powers and aspects overlap. Where you can hit similar methods from different origins.
[03:40] AA: I /think/.
[03:40] GI: The Mind aspect is related to consciousness and decisions though, not messing with the mind itself
[03:40] AA: I'm not apologizing. :(
[03:40] AA: The Literal Mind should count as well. I've always understood being one with the Mind meant . . .
[03:40] AA: Well, being one with the mind!
[03:40] GI: It's one of the few aspects that I don't think really has a physical manifestation
[03:40] AA: And Witch's change, manipulate.
[03:40] AA: Correct.
[03:41] AA: Mind is not a very physical thing.
[03:41] GI: Nerve endings are
[03:41] AA: But /the/ mind controls several things that are.
[03:41] AA: And those are lead by the brain.
[03:45] GI: I'm having to look up stuff about neurology
[03:46] GI: If she shut down her consciousness she would be able to avoid feeling pain
[03:46] GI: coma patients don't feel pain, this is true
[03:46] AA: She didn't.
[03:46] GI: since they're not there to experience it in the first place
[03:46] AA: Also, so for sending you to google. I will /happily/ explain the sciene behind any power.
[03:46] AA: She just stopped the signals from being sent.
[03:46] AA: She's aware of the pain. She isn't letting herself feel it.
[03:47] -- Alpha [AA] [[ sorry* ]] --
[04:08] AA: Still sure it isn't personal?
[04:08] AA: Because in two days six hours has been devoted to just shitting on me.
[04:08] AA: And I'm pretty fucking sick of it.
[04:09] GI: now it's personal just because he's salty, but we had the same issues in HT, me and him. going back and forth.
[04:09] AA: I believe it.
[04:09] AA: And I don't loathe them for it.
[04:09] GI: i feel like half of this ties into just
[04:09] GI: communication
[04:09] AA: I believe it.
[04:09] AA: But obviously this is just who I am. I haven't exactly changed in the few months you've heard from me.
[04:10] AA: I /STRIVE/ for clarity and speak almost overly denotative because in my youth I was never fucking understood.
[04:10] AA: I always used words wrong.
[04:10] AA: I never made sense or was listened to.
[04:10] GI: the struggle is now the same thing is happening
[04:10] AA: So I bypassed a lot of my problems in a direct manner:
[04:10] AA: Using the fucking English language right.
[04:10] AA: I don't think "above" anyone. These are just my words.
[04:11] GI: i know, i know. and i try to comprehend most of what you're saying, and i do, but. the struggle is going to be people like MB, who have no idea at all.
[04:12] AA: Which I expect. I even mentioned it off-hand earlier about orientation and attacks.
[04:12] AA: I cannot stress enough
[04:12] AA: How much "accomedation" is my sole concern.
[04:33] AA: Here's the thing:
[04:34] AA: FF and MB were ready to hit the OoC because someone hit them with so much as a stabbing finger. Oh no, my completely mundance laser from the average android did nothing in a room where /GODS/ casually exist.
[04:35] AA: If they can't handle that, they sure as shit couldn't handle anything I threw with actual maiming intent.
[04:35] AA: So I need to leave them alone for their own sake.
[04:35] GI: see FF is just trolling
[04:35] AA: I stopped listening honestly.
[04:35] AA: XD
[04:35] GI: he's actually funny
[04:35] GI: when you quit getting offended
[04:35] GI: i'm just like plz
[04:35] AA: Speak for yourself. I found his Steve Irwin line uninspi--
[04:35] AA: I said that.
[04:35] AA: I already said that.
[04:35] AA: Anyway, Fast Forward to that God Tier hunter.
[04:36] GI: he is also
[04:36] GI: a witch of mind
[04:36] GI: :')
[04:36] AA: That's someone I can possibly co-exist with better. For one, they're doing more than just lounging around and eating over small talk.
[04:36] AA: (I remember. I didn't say anything then either)
[04:36] AA: But he also isn't afraid to be involved in a fight without crying for help OoC.
[04:36] AA: I don't want to harass people who aren't ready for darker narratives.
[04:36] AA: I'm not a complete cunt.
[04:36] GI: yeah
[04:37] GI: most people here are i think
[04:37] GI: carebears
[04:37] GI: and casuals
[04:37] GI: me and CR are currently acting out a pirate plot on the side
[04:37] AA: I know. And I didn't bother being a snob and turning my nose up because of that. I planned on seeing them give me some sort of narrative even away from combat.
[04:37] AA: But they /haven't/.
[04:37] AA: So I thought to provoke it. Be the change I wanted to see.
[04:37] AA: Obviously they took exception to that.
[04:37] GI: bruh amara is so passive aggressive and an asshole usually
[04:37] AA: Lessons learned.
[04:38] AA: /OH, I KNOW/.
[04:38] AA: /IT'S VERY FORCED/.
[04:38] AA: She
[04:38] AA: Isn't elsewhere.
[04:38] GI: bitchy women are like everyone's kryptonite
[04:38] GI: idky
[04:38] GI: if you brought in some big asshole dude
[04:38] AA: She saw Seth and casually put someone in a coma just to play a game with him.
[04:38] GI: everyone would be over that
[04:39] AA: I beg to differ, as well. My big asshole dudes are usually more combat centric and IC care about contest and superiority.
[04:39] AA: So they /WOULD/ want to shit on the little guys.
[04:39] AA: And I can only change so much while staying in character, so I didn't bother.
[04:39] GI: well, i mean. if amara came at people more physically. instead of using magic for combat, resort more to physical jabs at first
[04:39] GI: punches and kicks
[04:40] GI: it's easier to escalate it
[04:40] GI: but with her it feels like it goes from nothing to way too much really quickly
[04:40] AA: She was nothing /BUT/ physical today.
[04:40] AA: Stabs and slashing.
[04:40] GI: yeah, but she used magic to mess with her fingers
[04:40] GI: people don't LIKE magic
[04:40] AA: She used magic on her fingers to do it, but all damage was physical. That's not attacking with magic.
[04:40] AA: They can "not like it" all they want.
[04:40] AA: But the difference between a Partizan and her pinky are insignificant in that moment.
[04:41] AA: But you /are/ right.
[04:41] AA: She her default speed setting is clocked above most. She considers that holding back while others call it a nightmare to imagine.
[04:41] AA: It's a testament to her inhumanity.
[04:41] GI: yeah.. but if enough people keep bitching, then eventually i'm going to have to step on some toes which i would like to avoid at most costs
[04:41] AA: She's just recently re-integrated back into society.
[04:42] AA: Oh contraire.
[04:42] GI: i don't want to lose patrons because amara goes straight for the finger punches
[04:42] AA: You should only step in when your order is threatened. And them not liking how I do things is not that.
[04:42] AA: If they want to quit because Amara is in the same room, they're petty.
[04:42] AA: If they want to quit because Amara is targetting them, that's different.
[04:42] AA: Hence my above concern.
[04:43] AA: If I'm not allowed to be here because of magic, no one should have bothered touching a narrative where magic exists.
[04:43] AA: And it /does/ in Homestuck.
[04:43] GI: true, but we all avoid it like the plague
[04:44] GI: because magic is kind of like a cop out. at least god tiers have some limitations with their aspect and class. magic doesn't.
[04:44] GI: people that use magic on this program use tons of variations of magic
[04:44] AA: God Tiers are the least restricted anything on Earth and you know it.
[04:44] GI: instead of just one speciality
[04:44] AA: Magic has variation but it is not without limit.
[04:44] GI: for example
[04:45] GI: Zevian, my violet, was given a book on runes that are embued with magic in them.
[04:45] GI: actually
[04:45] GI: that's a bad example
[04:45] GI: zevian is a knowledge hungry slut and would learn all the magic he could
[04:46] GI: he'll be 1500 sweeps old and be some sort of mage
[04:46] AA: I get what you're saying regardless. Aspect is a singular pool of powers were Magic can influence almost anything if you know what you're doing.
[04:46] AA: However, what you can do with that select pool (which is not shallow by any means) is INFINITELY less policed and visibly showing no draw backs of limited use per day or the like.
[04:46] GI: like, amara can do mind stuff, regen stuff. illusions. like fuck.
[04:46] AA: They are their source, through their own decisions and personality.
[04:47] AA: Mages need energy. Deification. Contracts. Study.
[04:47] AA: And it's still never enough.
[04:47] GI: it's just harder because amara is a very, very. verrrrry deeply developed character.
[04:47] AA: John literally inherited that power.
[04:47] GI: and everyone coming here came on a generally level playing field
[04:47] AA: I GET that it's harder.
[04:47] AA: I'm not even mad.
[04:47] AA: But I am at odds with their expectations.
[04:48] GI: i have so many "normal" characters it's hard, although if you want fighting and stuff, just PM me, so i can dredge out someone like krison or vintox
[04:48] GI: vintox has this whole plot thing going although i don't think amara would be interested in it
[04:48] AA: I don't do one on one's, for one. And two, I said earlier it's not about the fighting.
[04:48] GI: i like planning stuff OOCly to do
[04:48] AA: I'm going to go ahead and elaborate, sense I severely doubt I'll even go back to the narrative:
[04:49] GI: ..... I mean. I guess as the keyholder I could put down a "mission" or something affecting the memo
[04:49] GI: like an asteroid coming towards the planet or
[04:49] GI: some natural disaster
[04:49] AA: Amara was locked away once. Her ego pit her against about 22 different God Tiers, and one of them was a Lord who knew her personally and even built weapons to spite her. She commented on that to Seth if you recall. Point is, when she was in her metaphoric cage she did a lot of thinking.
[04:50] AA: She, as her human embodiment and existence, threw a game guide into her kernselsprite so she actually went through the game with a lot of answers already but she got really existential.
[04:50] AA: Wondered what made the source of the powers, besides primordial embodiment of shit like matter for Space.
[04:50] AA: And then she started scrutinizing the personalities and mindsets you needed to get each specific class and aspect.
[04:51] AA: If you listened to her today, she was spouting off random emotional responses:
[04:51] AA: She was spreading the respective concepts for the Aspects.
[04:51] AA: She's not some Lovecraftian Destroyer. She's emulating the Squiddles who questionably started the campaign that made Alternian.
[04:51] -- Alpha [AA] [ mic drop ] --
[04:51] GI: squidddlessssss
[04:52] GI: she's probably just 20x more developed than any other character that comes in here which is........... idk the word for it
[04:52] AA: Lamentable.
[04:52] AA: But I suppose you see why I took such offense to FF saying I was depriving this woman of development like I didn't know what I was doing.
[04:53] AA: Honest to God, the singular thing that just pissed me off.
[04:53] GI: from an outside source, without knowing she's been played so thoroughly
[04:53] AA: And I didn't even bother to hide it. I dropped every other subject to respond to that.
[04:53] GI: it looks like she's a special snowflake
[04:53] GI: a super OP snowflake
[04:53] AA: /I know/. Which is why I answer all the fucking questions.
[04:53] AA: I thought of /all/ of this already. I know I've said I know we've had this conversation.
[04:53] AA: Hours before I even stepped in for the first time.
[04:53] AA: Because I saw all of this.
[04:53] AA: Because I think.
[04:53] GI: c': yep
[04:54] GI: i saw this coming as well tbh
[04:55] AA: I'm done ranting though. I sound like some baby crying over their "magnum opus" that "the world just isn't ready for". And I'm just not that kind of self centered ego maniac.
[04:55] AA: I just don't want to waste the narrative I've written for them by answering all the bends and twists in the OoC because they're paranoid.
[04:55] AA: Note how her powers don't fall into that list of policed information.
[04:55] AA: (gasp*)
[04:55] GI: it does come across as that. and i understand. like i said, MY issue was communication rather than what specifically she was doing
[04:55] GI: because she seemed unaffected on all fronts
[04:56] AA: I will make a motherfucker use the word "Seemingly" a lot.
[04:56] AA: Yeah.
[04:56] GI: i understand the whole "not feeling pain" thing because zexius goes berserk
[04:56] GI: tunnel vision as fuck
[04:57] AA: Speaking of which, prepare for a text dump.
[04:57] AA: Just say "Stop" for an explanation on any.
[04:57] GI: ok
[04:57] AA: Powers:
[04:57] AA: Evocation Magic
[04:57] AA: Transmutation Magic
[04:57] AA: Enchantment Magic
[04:57] AA: Oculus Magicka
[04:57] AA: Witch of Mind*
[04:58] AA: Telekinesis
[04:58] AA: Concilium
[04:58] AA: Afront Illusion
[04:58] AA: Sensory, Subconscious and Anatomy Manipulation
[04:58] AA: Telepathy
[04:58] AA: Prince of Heart
[04:58] AA: Etherial Afront
[04:59] AA: Etherial Transmutation
[04:59] AA: Etherial Tether
[04:59] AA: Descensum
[04:59] AA: Horror Terror
[04:59] AA: Eldritch Physiology (Transformation)
[04:59] AA: Energy Exacerbation
[04:59] AA: Furthest Ring Comprehension
[04:59] AA: Mental Instability Projection
[04:59] AA: Pyrokinesis
[05:00] AA: Divination
[05:00] AA: Vitalum Vitalis
[05:00] AA: Arcane Deconstruction
[05:00] AA: Dream Bubble Conjuration
[05:00] AA: Occlumency
[05:00] AA: Legilimency
[05:00] AA: Lifeforce Cessation
[05:00] AA: Nervous Sytem Assault
[05:00] AA: Will Impairment
[05:00] AA: Sensory Utilization Backlash (this one is particularly nasty)
[05:00] AA: Necromancy
[05:00] AA: Sense Projection
[05:01] AA: Disguise Spell, Empower Spell, Energy Substituion, Enlarge Spell
[05:01] AA: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Heighten Spell, Maximize Spell, Enhance Spell
[05:01] AA: Intensify Spell, Quicken Spell, Reach Spell, Repeat Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell
[05:02] AA: Subdual Spell (also important, so murder isn't rampant)
[05:02] AA: Widen Spell
[05:03] AA: There. I officially commented at least one once every ability under the bloody sun for her. This hasn't even extended to weapons and personality quirks. She does have weapons. Thankfully, she didn't play with the Alchemiter much because that's one defining difference between her and a variant reality.
[05:03] AA: She focused on powers. They focused on weapons.
[05:04] GI: that......... is pretty much literally everything
[05:04] AA: Not quite. Her physical fortitude is absent. In an anti-magic field, she's only got the God Tier deification on her side and very little physical training.
[05:05] GI: No one here uses magic except for Amara, Seth, and the one demon Ithiel.
[05:05] AA: She used a sword when she was still playing the game, but even with the title "Spell Knight" it was a 70/30 split.
[05:05] GI: Which makes her excessively over powered.
[05:05] AA: And you're right! Which is why /she isn't casting shit like Empowered Thundaga/.
[05:05] GI: Because magic isn't really a prevalent thing in this setting.
[05:05] AA: So I noticed.
[05:05] GI: Right, but the fact she can pull on all of these skills.
[05:05] AA: And won't, as I've said.
[05:05] GI: Even if she's not using them to their fullest extent.
[05:05] AA: Let me tell you:
[05:06] GI: We have a base we use for characters to keep it fair, usually
[05:06] GI: God tier, psionics, and one brand of magic, or magical artifacts.
[05:06] AA: Amara, her base human form fresh from winning the game, fought the Horror Terror that makes up the second half of Amara (they weren't friends, obviously) by swinging at the /Soul/. Not the body.
[05:06] GI: How could she even find the soul.
[05:07] AA: She didn't look for it. She assumed one was tied to the consciousness. And she /could've/ been wrong. If the Horror Terror was like part Lich or something.
[05:07] AA: That's a risk you run being a hero on the front lines.
[05:07] AA: You aren't always right.
[05:08] AA: She hit the White Mage when she was trying to cover the Gunzerker in one fight and got a Knight of Light killed.
[05:08] AA: She isn't infalliable.
[05:08] AA: I'm not infalliable.
[05:08] GI: But anyone not playing with all of those abilities and having knowledge of those abilities
[05:09] GI: if you posted that list to everyone else to know what she has available
[05:09] AA: Is at risk. Like any other person in an adventure. Welcome to the club, I would tell them.
[05:09] GI: You know what reaction you would get
[05:09] AA: And /Hell no/. I know they'd explode. Because they don't think like me.
[05:09] AA: They can't see that and see what's missing.
[05:09] AA: They don't even care.
[05:09] AA: The list alone is an afront to them in several regards.
[05:09] AA: 1. Magic
[05:09] GI: UA has said multiple times Dream Hive operated on the whole
[05:09] AA: 2. A lot
[05:09] GI: "if everyone is OP then no one is OP" front
[05:09] AA: He's . . . not wrong!
[05:10] GI: We do not want OP characters here at all. Even with the potential.
[05:10] AA: There were God Tiers there, but they also never "stopped" playing. They had goals and things that demanded more of them.
[05:10] GI: God tiers are literally it lmao
[05:10] AA: Doing more in life tends to make you . . . well, better than you were.
[05:10] AA: And they can be content to sit on a couch.
[05:10] AA: I won't ever be. As any character.
[05:10] GI: How old is Amara? 10,000 years old?
[05:10] AA: Actually she hasn't broken her thirties, from her perspective.
[05:11] AA: The Horror Terror was named "Endless" though.
[05:11] AA: So . . .
[05:11] AA: She I can say more so.
[05:11] AA: But Amara is an amalgam of those two identities and parades herself as a new person ultimately.
[05:11] AA: So if we wanted to be hyper specific she's not even really more than 12.
[05:11] GI: You know the mixed horror terror stuff is a no, right? they can inhabit the body and possess it, even channel some of their powers through a player. Void players like Krison can be the most powerful and actually manifest Void, but
[05:11] GI: Amara isn't permitted Void abilities
[05:12] AA: She's not a conduit.
[05:12] AA: Ursula, the human, took Endless' Soul to win that fight. She didn't want to kill her. This is where the narrative splits:
[05:12] GI: This is where that narrative will not fit into this one. That's bullshit to me.
[05:13] AA: In what actually happened, Ursula ended up setting her free and even sealing what other powers she had because (hey, look at that) she left the community paranoid and actually lost a few romances. Unfortunately, Endless just came back and then the hero that stopped her was depowered.
[05:13] AA: It
[05:13] AA: It's bullshit to invite another soul into your body and not expect conflict on the internal level?
[05:13] GI: It's bullshit to think you have the ability to rip someone's soul from someone else's body.
[05:13] AA: Heart.
[05:14] GI: A Thief of Heart?
[05:14] AA: Prince. She beat a Prince and took his power.
[05:14] AA: You see a running gag here.
[05:14] GI: You can't take someone's power
[05:14] GI: That is a no
[05:14] GI: and a Prince would destroy the soul, not take it
[05:14] AA: EXACTLY>
[05:14] AA: Which is, and I played this up later with a different narrative.
[05:14] AA: Why she couldn't do anything the same as him.
[05:14] AA: She was a Witch. She still thought like one.
[05:15] GI: But having more than one title's powers isn't something I've heard of any memo permitting
[05:15] AA: She only could take his Understanding.
[05:15] GI: and i won't permit it at all
[05:15] AA: And as a Witch of Mind --
[05:15] GI: which would invalidate anything pertaining to coming from that.
[05:15] AA: So you're telling me someone who can read minds can't take that data and act on it?
[05:15] AA: She didn't literally "pick his aspect up and take it".
[05:15] AA: It's essentially doing that.
[05:15] GI: Prince of Heart powers are supplied by whatever fueling source is from the game.
[05:16] AA: But she can't just overwrite the game's coding and evaluation.
[05:16] AA: /Funny how I mentioned her musing over that later in life/.
[05:16] GI: I noticed.
[05:16] AA: She doesn't have a direct source to his power, you're right.
[05:16] AA: It's why she couldn't keep it up.
[05:16] AA: It's why it didn't keep happening.
[05:16] GI: Using it at all is a thing the Game wouldn't allow.
[05:16] AA: And now you're standing on Head Canon.
[05:17] GI: The same way the Game dictates just and heroic deaths.
[05:17] AA: There is a clause though that amost supports you, almost.
[05:17] AA: About how it's hard for people to understand the aspects that aren't theres, and how there's an intuitive understanding.
[05:18] AA: But remember: she /isn't/ using his Class for one. And the data is plucked from /his/ brain. If she looked up "How to do X", she doesn't have to understand it to the core to do it.
[05:18] AA: It's like looking up the forumla in math but not really having a profound understanding.
[05:18] GI: Stealing souls would in theory be a Thief of Heart thing.
[05:18] AA: It's closer to a Thief mentality, yes. She was accused of being a Theif of Mind several times.
[05:19] AA: But she's manipulated and changed minds more so. She's just not so glasnost about it.
[05:19] AA: It's her thing, and she likes that about herself.
[05:19] GI: She couldn't use powers from an aspect not given to her. That's just. That's like my Space player trying to do Time magic. Unless she mind controlled the Heart player into doing shit FOR her.
[05:19] GI: It's *still* a Thief of Heart thing, where Princes can only destroy their aspect, or destroy through their asepct.
[05:19] GI: aspect*
[05:19] AA: A Space Player could. Remember, power overlap. Execution is important.
[05:20] AA: In fact, a Space player tried that against me.
[05:20] AA: Stopped all atomic progression in a specific area, so nothing moved.
[05:20] GI: A Space player could manipulate mass and gravity to mess with the fabric
[05:20] GI: and all that
[05:20] AA: They went for physics. Like you said.
[05:20] AA: In a much more creative manner.
[05:20] AA: I've been around the block. This is why I said they're so not-policed.
[05:20] AA: It's mind boggling.
[05:21] AA: But you're right. It's essentially closer to a Thief than a Prince, and notice how neither of those are her class and all she's done is change the world around her.
[05:21] AA: Ad infinium.
[05:21] AA: Meeting her /description/.
[05:21] GI: What I'm saying is she couldn't do that though.
[05:22] AA: Show me where impossibility comes from the narrative here. I've given you one citable point of concern and it isn't even damning. In this order:
[05:22] AA: > Read a mind
[05:22] AA: > Remember Something
[05:22] AA: > Try it
[05:22] AA: Sounds pretty Witch of Mind to me.
[05:22] GI: I will counter that, then.
[05:22] GI: A pyrokinetic could not suddenly manipulate water.
[05:23] GI: You can absorb allllll the karate moves you want
[05:23] GI: but if your body can't DO them
[05:23] GI: you can't do them
[05:23] AA: These are two very specific and almost inarguable points. Better.
[05:23] AA: However:
[05:23] AA: Every player of Sburb has an eligability for the aspects. The game evaluates them and merely opens the door.
[05:24] AA: She didn't need to be lead to that catharsis because she read it from someone who already had exposure.
[05:24] AA: MORE OVER
[05:24] AA: She isn't even doing it well, let alone to a full degree.
[05:24] AA: Because she isn't a Prince.
[05:25] GI: What universe does she originate from, anyways?
[05:26] AA: Earth. Stricly Homestuck. Like I said, she wasn't any cameo Cross Over character.
[05:26] AA: But you have to remember the things we read and study she has by proxy. Like your Horcrux question? She knows what they are. She doesn't like the thought of them.
[05:26] AA: She also isn't big on "soul".
[05:26] AA: She's a scientist at heart.
[05:26] GI: Prevalent magic like she's using isn't found in Homestuck at all. :\ Only the horrorterror magics. Unless you can cite otherwise with like, evidence. Before the game.
[05:27] GI: Because here is the issue, magic isn't a thing outside of the game.
[05:27] GI: Lol.
[05:27] GI: at all.
[05:27] AA: The Earth Universe is made by the Alternians. The Alternians have Psionics and Magic due to their playing of the game.
[05:27] AA: So . . . it kind of does.
[05:27] AA: But that was also a huge point of ambiguity in the narrative when the camera was on Rose.
[05:27] AA: They made a lot of jokes about it.
[05:27] GI: They don't have magic at all.
[05:28] GI: And just because trolls have inherent mental abilities doesn't mean humans would of had them, or showed evidence of having them.
[05:28] AA: The Handmaiden used magic. The Ancestors didn't play SBURB.
[05:28] AA: I know what I said.
[05:28] GI: The hand maiden used powers given to her by doc scratch
[05:28] GI: who is a game construct
[05:28] AA: They made magic in SBURB, and then made a universe derivative of their own.
[05:28] AA: It's eclipsing.
[05:29] GI: It's completely different.
[05:29] GI: That magic isn't given to every day people.
[05:29] GI: Or anybody.
[05:29] GI: Humans don't get magic in the comic.
[05:29] GI: Advanced technology maybe
[05:30] PC: >:c pesterchum stop
[05:30] PC: DCing
[05:30] PC: god fucking damn
[05:31] AA: But don't go from "it doesn't exist" to "everyone doesn't have it". Not only is the latter obvious, but kind of downplaying your first line.
[05:31] AA: And this progression just makes it feel like you're looking for implausibility I may have missed so as to tear down a character.
[05:31] PC: No. No, definitely not.
[05:32] PC: If Amara is from a "Homestuck" universe Earth, she can't use magic because that's not a thing given to humans, and it's not manufactured in SBURB except for the instance Rose combined her needles with the book about the Eldritch lords.
[05:32] PC: And so far that is the only sign of "magic" we've really seen
[05:32] PC: besides other game shit
[05:32] PC: but that's given to people like doc scratch
[05:32] AA: That's not written anywhere (the barring of humans from magic), and we can see the birth of such (magic) in the narrative.
[05:33] AA: And the fact that you acknowledge it was manufactured in SBURB supports what I've said.
[05:33] PC: Which of the humans has magic that they're born with?
[05:33] PC: Pyromancy is not something you can manufacture with sburb
[05:33] PC: you can make "magical" artifacts
[05:33] PC: like needles
[05:33] PC: you can't learn skills
[05:33] PC: because there's nowhere to learn these skills at in that universe
[05:33] -- pesterClient308 [PC] ceased pestering Alpha [AA] at 05:33 --
[05:33] -- genocideImminent [GI] began pestering Alpha [AA] at 05:33 --
[05:34] GI: that one client just kept crashing wth
[05:35] GI: But, I have no issues with limited magical artifacts. In fact, Zexius' coat, a game made item, is completely fire proof.
[05:35] AA: Did you see everything I just typed on 749?
[05:35] GI: c': nope. please kill me.
[05:35] AA: Several lines coming, please hold:
[05:35] GI: noproblem
[05:35] AA: You can make literally anything in SBURB. If I took a Pyromancy card from Magic the Gathering and combined it with a glove, I could probably throw fireballs.
[05:35] AA: But that's not my point.
[05:35] AA: This is:
[05:36] AA: HOWEVER the power was given, it existed in a world that passed on it's qualities to the next one: Earth. And it's given in two different ways: Scratch, and the Dancestor's work.
[05:36] AA: Two fold, passed down to this society.
[05:36] AA: And no, none of the kids in the narrative have it.
[05:36] GI: Where does it show that though?
[05:36] AA: Damara. Then the Handmaiden.
[05:36] AA: Damara is the chronological first use of Magic.
[05:36] AA: That /I/ recall.
[05:36] AA: Wait.
[05:37] AA: The older Eridan.
[05:37] AA: He was a wizard too. Based off Harry Potter.
[05:37] GI: I never got far enough to even observe much of anything about Damara, but from what I know, no one was given magical abilities.
[05:37] GI: They were given artifacts.
[05:37] AA: Which doesn't negate my point.
[05:37] GI: Which is 100% a different story
[05:37] AA: See two fold creation and then inheritance.
[05:37] GI: that's 100% different than using magical abilities from like, DnD
[05:37] AA: Listen.
[05:37] GI: If Amara had a pyro glove to throw fireballs, that would be fine
[05:37] GI: and well accepted
[05:38] GI: if she had a cloak of invisibility that would be cool
[05:38] AA: Whether it came from Scratch. Whether it was made in SGRUB, magic was "unlocked" in Beforus. You see that, right?
[05:38] GI: because those can be taken away. it levels the playing field. it makes sense.
[05:38] GI: no
[05:38] GI: it wasn't
[05:38] GI: magic artifacts doesn't mean magic was unlocked
[05:38] AA: Scratch didn't give artifacts. We've seen Handmaiden work without the wands.
[05:38] AA: We've seen Condy steal that power and do it without the wands.
[05:38] GI: She has psionics.
[05:39] GI: The Condy has her tiara
[05:39] AA: We had this conversation.
[05:39] GI: Psionics aren't magic.
[05:39] AA: That tiara had no powers.
[05:39] AA: Handmaiden had magic.
[05:39] AA: The rest was Psionic.
[05:39] GI: I need sauce on that.
[05:39] AA: She took Handmaiden's /JOB/.
[05:39] AA: But okay.
[05:39] AA: I'll get that Tiara source again.
[05:40] GI: More specifically the Handmaiden using magic
[05:40] GI: and not psionics
[05:40] AA: Off memory though: "Condy had time due to physiology to outlive her race and steal their powers". I'll find the quote.
[05:41] AA: Here's the non tiara quote:
[05:41] AA: "The Condesce gradually flooded the world through melting of the ice caps, and somehow brought Carapacians to Earth, likely through the powers of her master. Over time, she also managed to hone the ps
[05:41] AA: ychic skills of certain members of her lost troll society for herself, demonstrating specifically the symbols of Vriska, TavrosSburb Logo, Sollux, and AradiaSburb Logo, which could explain her easy co
[05:41] AA: nquest of Derse in the post-scratch kids session of Sburb. It should especially be noted that she had full control over the God Cat, post-scratch Earth's first guardian, making her especially formidable."
[05:41] GI: can you also link the page
[05:42] AA: The link goes to the page where she's facing Future Dave and Rose. Hang on.
[05:42] AA: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006773
[05:42] AA: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006758
[05:42] AA: It's shown level with the headband, but that glow is very obviously coming off her while the item iteself is lifeless.
[05:43] GI: who was her boss?
[05:43] GI: LE?
[05:43] AA: Note, identical flashing to the Handmaiden which I ---
[05:43] AA: English and by Proxy Scratch.
[05:43] AA: Which you said.
[05:43] GI: Being embued with abilities conditionally from another source doesn't mean you're given with them, or that they'll be passed on.
[05:43] AA: And like /I/ said: regardless of how the magic was earned, the Earth was made by Alternian minds which had both the believe and the utility of magic.
[05:43] AA: Which is HOW it was passed on.
[05:43] AA: That was what I said.
[05:44] AA: Let me reiterate:
[05:44] GI: How does that work?
[05:44] GI: They think about magic and poof they made a world with magic?
[05:44] GI: I'm confused.
[05:44] AA: Or, answer that. Give me a second.
[05:44] AA: But yes.
[05:44] AA: That's a gross simplification.
[05:45] GI: Also if you go based on this, yeah. Trolls are given with a higher mental capacity for psychic abilities, not magic.
[05:45] GI: The HIC was able to unlock her mental potential to use her psychic abilities to the fullest extent
[05:46] GI: That's not magic though.
[05:46] AA: I'm trying to find your source, because I'm planning ahead that you'll want it, but the Ultimate Reward was building a universe how you wanted. I know it's making a universe, but I'm looking for that specific line of text for you.
[05:46] AA: And you're right. Condy stole the Psionics. /AND/ Handmaiden's powers.
[05:46] AA: Hers were magic. Which you said came from Scratch.
[05:46] AA: I know what I said. I'm just defending it now, over and over.
[05:47] GI: If trolls are embued with the physical traits to use these psychic abilities, what makes you think humans got it? That trolls would even want humans to have it.
[05:47] GI: It's definitely not magic.
[05:47] AA: It's not about the psionics.
[05:48] AA: Please stop focusing on the psionics.
[05:48] AA: And no, that's not assured.
[05:48] AA: For one, they were an army of teenagers. Scatter brained teenagers.
[05:48] GI: If they were magic, trolls would have that shit everywhere. But trolls explicitly state all the time that magic isn't real.
[05:48] AA: I don't expect them to pass on every benefit in the world. Their core beliefs and experiences? Much more.
[05:48] AA: And no, that's not true.
[05:49] AA: Like you said "Not everyone has it".
[05:49] AA: Eridan thought he had magic.
[05:49] AA: Karkat did not.
[05:49] GI: Eridan had a science wand. :o
[05:49] AA: You know who sure as shit thought there was Magic? Feferi. After she was shot.
[05:49] AA: That shit gets passed on.
[05:49] GI: Feferi died super hard.
[05:49] AA: Sad but true. But a tangent all the same.
[05:50] AA: I think Rose said the line I'm looking for, which is a godsend for impeachable data, but I need to land on the page.
[05:50] AA: Hang on.
[05:54] AA: Right now I have the commentary towards the freedom to create the new universe and rule it. Though bonus points to the catharsis that no one actually managed to visibly walk through their doors in the story.
[05:54] AA: Technically Hivebent caught up after Time Shenanigans and the 1 Yard.
[05:55] AA: "Skaia (a portmanteau of the words "sky" and "Gaia") is the world that the players of Sburb must build toward in order to win the game. Nanna describes Skaia as a "dormant crucible of unlimited creative potential". It resides at the core of the Incipisphere, sort of like its "sun". "
[05:55] AA: "The Ultimate Reward is what awaits players who have successfully won a session of Sburb. After the necessary actions for winningSburb Logo have been performed, a structure resembling the session's Sb
[05:55] AA: urb logoSburb Logo appears on the victory platform. The structure has a door with a smaller version of the respective Sburb logo on it, with a doorknobSburb Logo resembling a dream bubble, adorned with the same narrow spirograph. The door serves as an entrance into the new universe the players have created, and is apparently unusable if it has been structurally damagedSburb Logo"
[05:55] AA: But like I said:
[05:56] AA: No matter how the magic was acquired, the belief and understanding was founded. And then those very beings made a new world.
[05:56] AA: No, not everyone has it.
[05:56] AA: Not everyone has a gun here in this world either.
[05:56] GI: There's no proof the "belief and understanding" was there.
[05:56] AA: CONDY USED IT
[05:56] AA: HANDMAID USED IT
[05:56] GI: No one understands magic that can't use it.
[05:56] AA: ERIDAN --
[05:56] GI: They were given it.
[05:56] AA: I can't give you ---
[05:56] AA: And they made EARTH
[05:56] AA: I can't ... stress this any further.
[05:57] GI: Eridan never had magic.
[05:57] AA: And you've yet to present a counter to it. You're right, Eridan had Hope.
[05:57] GI: His wand wasn't a Hope wand
[05:57] AA: Still no answer to Condy. Who got it from Handmaid. Who got it from LE/Scratch.
[05:57] AA: I covered my fucking disertation man.
[05:58] GI: Condy was given those powers, not born with them. They weren't inherited. If anything, they're borrowed.
[05:58] AA: Tht
[05:58] AA: Isn't
[05:58] AA: The POINT
[05:58] GI: Same with the Handmaiden.
[05:58] AA: She existed in the world that sculpted the other. These forces have experienced, used, or hit someone with magic.
[05:58] AA: It existed, created given or otherwise.
[05:58] AA: And then SUCH
[05:58] AA: Was passed on.
[05:59] GI: Telekinesis is prevalent in this world, Alpha. I myself have visions through my dreams, am able to manipulate heat through my hands, and use weak telepathy on people to transfer my thoughts to them.
[05:59] GI: That is not magic.
[05:59] AA: For the sake of my patience.
[05:59] AA: Please.
[05:59] AA: PLEASE ignore Psionics.
[06:00] AA: I want you to show me where the Handmaiden isn't using magic. Or where the SBURB generated magic items ceased to be.
[06:00] GI: You're definitely not getting through to me. If there's no proof humans have these abilities I'm not going to be able to justify them having them.
[06:00] GI: Well you see, Amara isn't using Handmaid magic or SBURB items
[06:00] AA: NO, she's using the INHERENT MAGIC PASSED DOWN from worlds WITH MAGIC.
[06:01] GI: Which you are the only one that believes in a thing
[06:01] GI: except maybe UA
[06:01] AA: She doesn't need the same source when the ability, the reality, is given in sheer design.
[06:01] AA: I'm the only one?
[06:01] GI: that i've come across, yes
[06:01] AA: IN CHARACTER several sources call the jury out.
[06:01] AA: I'm just the first one who's had to defend the feasibility with you.
[06:01] AA: All because this world of your hates magic.
[06:01] AA: Which I'm NOT even weaponizing 90% of the time!
[06:01] AA: Do you know how frustrating this is?
[06:02] GI: you do realize this memo was founded on the premise of no magic at all, correct?
[06:02] GI: nothing but god tiers and SBURB items
[06:02] AA: And that's FINE. But you should have stopped me LOOONG ago.
[06:02] AA: More over, and less tangential:
[06:02] GI: i wanted the extent of amara's powers before she even came in, and i kept asking you, what is she. what can she do.
[06:02] AA: The narrative. The magic that countless beings believe and perceive. Unlocked, gifted, or forged.
[06:03] AA: It's there. At least one person in every world has either been gifted or made it.
[06:03] AA: Even if the Horror Terrors are your be all end all of all magic, she /still has that/.
[06:03] AA: And she used Aspect based work to get to everything else before that.
[06:03] AA: Find me someone else with more detailed work.
[06:04] AA: With such a careful balance of personality, power, and plot.
[06:04] AA: Depth.
[06:04] AA: Personality.
[06:04] AA: And you're ready to destroy it all because you can't accept that a world with magic passed on that same utility, JUST AS SPARRINGLY, to the world it designed of it's own faith and volition.
[06:04] AA: This is silly.
[06:05] GI: No. I was going to say, pick a handful of abilities from that list, plus her god tier, and call it a day.
[06:05] GI: SETH is the cap of what I wanted a character's powers to be.
[06:05] GI: He was supposed to be the most powerful being around.