Cloud match up notes

Pick Pit. Gimp him.

Sum up
Patient, walk. Safe pressure & whiff punish. Shield is good.
Dont mess with him in the air but catch his landing.

Stages
Lylat earth picks it
T&C : avoid jugglr
Fd : has trouble landing.
SV : Same than FD but a bit worst.
Worst stages : T&C and Lylat
Grizz : Pick FD, SV. Ban DH, BF, DL.

Reraze : FD > T&C > SV > DL > BF and idk lylat

Informations :
Weight : 100 [17th]
Fall speed : 1,68 [14]
Air Speed : 1.1 [14-19th]
Wall jump.

Neutral
Play patient against him.
Get closer to him and pressure with only safe moves to stop him from charging limit.
Stay at mid range : Dash atk/grab range and outside of his Nair/sideB
Walk lots and be ready to shield at any point.
Play defensive, let him do the first thing and punish his long cooldown.
Stay grounded as he beats me in the air.
Look out for pattern on how they leave limit charge.
He has bad grabs. Use shield a lot at high percents.

If he has limit : - Do not jump (LCS). - Do not spam projectile (LBB) -Use shield a lot, mix up oos options to stop him from grabbing. -Do not need to worry of him running around and stalling.

Cloud patterns
Be wary of Fullhop Double Nair or Fullhop Nair > Action
Look at what they are doing after a jump, they might always do one of those things : Auto cancel Neutral Air / Double Jump Down air

Our options
FH arrows while drifting toward him to stop his limit charge.
Dash only if your punish is guaranteed/middle of a combo.
FSmash outranges all his kit (like his Fsmash and LBS), I can use it to call out an attack. But very risky.
Dair beats his Uair (but the bottom hitbox comes very late so I have to plan ahead).

His options
Dair has only one hitbox and it goes far bellow. If I shield once, it cancels the hitbox early, I can instantly release shield and punish it (Usmash, Grab...).
Late hit of Dair is safe on shield : walk off, turn-around grab/tilt. Uair/USmash/Utilt while beeing diagonally under him. Dash atk, Spaced Fair or FSmash (with PP).
Nair are safe on shield. Go out of their range then punish.
Dsmash : DI down and tech / DI up and jump.
SideB : 1-2 is safe on shield.
1-2-3-4 : Roll in between 1-2 then punish.
Cloud upB is not safe : tech the landing and punish.
Aerials : whiff punish, powershield.
Dair : beat it from the side.
If I get hit by first hit upB, I can ad second hit.
LCS :
Not that safe on shield : Read the counterplay to Limit Cross Slash. And can spotdodge the last hit.

Combos/Kills
DThrow > SideB : true combo at very low percent.


Juggle
Doesn't have any landing option besides down air. We can juggle him well.
Doesnt have any monkey flip escape.
Do not try to challenge him in the air. Only from the sideB if I predict a downB.

Landing
He has a very good advantage state.
Uair : DI away from platforms.
Uair combos into Uair at low percent, don't bother airdodging to not ad into something worst.
Dair, Bair : DI down and away.


Edgeguard
Whenever I can, throw him offstage and pressure him there. Pressure him offstage with aerials and arrows.Try to catch his jump.
Cannot tech while upB'ing.
Regular up B :
Sweetspot :
Go offstage and hit him from the back with FF Fair (long hitbox). Dair is also good, because even if not hit with spyke hitbox, he will be stage spyked.
Overshoot :
He cannot snap the ledge unless sweetspoted, if he goes over the ledge, he cannot snap unless he falls down a certain distance. Perfect shield his hitbox on his way up and down tilt him.
High height :
UpB over stage : beat his descent with Dtilt. Or if very high = jump and downB.
Limit upB :
He can also throw a limit Beam then use regular upB to get back on stage.

M2k's edge guard. :
LB upB : doesn't have an hitbox on half of the rising.
Has limit : he'll most likely try to recover without using UpB, either Double Jumping onstage (with Dair) or to the ledge, or maybe even using the wall jump if on a stage like Duck Hunt.

Recovery
His LCS can cover all ledge options. So mix them up with ledge release arrow and ledge release fakeout regrab the ledge, delay when I get up.
Ledge trump into limit sideB
Some Cloud players will jump off stage and try to intercept your recovery by doing Limit Cross Slash right near the ledge. This is techable. This is annoying as fuck. But it’s techable.

Combo & kill
Throw : DI away.
Downsmash : If anticipate : DI first hit down. Di up and away for second hit to know hit.


Notes
LCS : Limite cross slash
LBB : Limit blade beam

M2k's edge guard: if he is 45° above me and consummed his jump, he only have -attack -airdodge -nothing. If nothing : jump and attack. If ad or attack : jump FF airjump and attack. I am too close for him to react.
Edge guarding Cloud : stay at a range where he cannot react to dj fair/bair and drift to stay at same range. He must guess at what timing I will hit him, he cannot be proactive bc he cannot dj downward but I can dj upward.
Zero uses this tactic.


Can spotdodge out of Cloud's sideB if on my shield : to input spotdodge roughly after you see the third hit of Cross Slash hit. I should spotdodge the fifth hit. Can punish with a Dsmash.
Rolling his LCS : Wait for the third cross slash then roll. After awhile it becomes second nature
Prefer spotdodge.