Narratology talk

[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara nods... And pats Okuu. "How so?"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I feel happy. Untroubled. Successful."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Like I can actually smile involuntarily."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "You are tried, go to bed. Just kidding :D"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Heh."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "But it's nice that games can bring people happiness."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I had a long talk with my mom after I finished the game. She talked about how stupid people were to want to ban violent video games when they're reading Lord of the Flies in middle school."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Inasmuch that old Tragedy of the Greeks, movies and books, and manga and anime brings flows of different emotion and enriches our life, game is of a similar medium."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara nods!
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods.
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Personally I have been impacted by many more video games than I have movies."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "I ... Really think of game as sometimes an engineering project, but most often I think of the design of game in a narratory direction."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "I took a class on studying narration and one of the heavy topic was Game as Narration Device."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Nay, rather, the prof was cool enough to dive right into ludologist debate between narration and gameplay."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "When half of the class doesn't really play games."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Nice."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Mmm, it's one of the few mind-changing classes I've took in my university life."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I'm hoping the university I transfer to next semester will give me similar opportunities."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "... That combined with old gamer spirit guides me in a strange direction..."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara asks, "Oh, you are transferring?"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I really want to get into game design as a career. But not just making games, making stories."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Yeah, I'm transferring to Rice University."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara asks, "Who is to say that they are not one and the same?"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Honestly, you'll enjoy Hamlet on the Holodeck."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Well, there are games like, say, Super Mario Galaxy, and then there are games like Demon's Souls and Silent Hill."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "And, don't be afraid to branch out from your major. I took a few humanity classes as well as design, English, and the like."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "The games I've been impacted by have been in the latter category."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Super Mario Bros tells of a story. The story may be simple, but each asethetic of the stage design tells and hints at things and deeper meaning."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "The castle in 1-2, after you finish 1-1, etc."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "True, I suppose."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "The only Mario game I have really loved for the story was Super Mario RPG."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Rather, that's still stretching it a bit. Some games are more of a focus on gameplay rather than stories."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Yeah, that's what I mean. I'd like to focus more on the narrative than the gameplay."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Of course, a perfect balance is the best outcome, but a focus is good."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara grins.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Well, to each their own balance point."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara sighs at average MMO players due to storyline being set aside for purpose of character growth, a struggle between mechanic and storytelling that mechanics has been winning due to human nature.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "I am hoping that the more next-gen online game(s) would steer away from it."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It's hard to have MMOs with as in-depth and striking storylines as single-player games, in my experience."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "It's one reason that I am looking forward toward Guild Wars 2, and seeing how they would use gameplay mechanic to tell a story, instead of making an incomplete mesh like most other online games."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara nods at Utsuho.
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It certainly isn't impossible, just difficult. The nature of MMOs isn't made to easily coexist with an evolving, deep storyline."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara notes that for her player, GW2's design concepts are actually old ideas already. "I just can't predict future in more than a few steps. Seeing how far GW2 wants to take the genre is already my limit."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Rather than evolving and deep, seek engaging and immersion from players."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "It's usually easier to do, I think."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Those elements are... Doable in an online game, but realize that having people chatting about Touhou in guild channel can somewhat break away from both story involvement and immersion. :D"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Yeah."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Rather, by not being alone, MMO introduce a social value that changes the dynamic of gameplay."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara realize it's 4 AM, and I am speaking of digested information from my entire univesity learning + personal experience. Huh.
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "6 AM here."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I looked outside my window and laughed when I realized this was the first time ever where I stayed up playing games until morning and my mother knew about it."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara grins.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "There's nothing wrong with that. It's like staying up watching movies with family members."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "True."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Same thing, actually."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Games have received a bad vibe for several reasons. One of which is actually the same as other mediums of work such as movies and books - immersion."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "When novels first came out people trashed them to hell, you know."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara nods.
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It's the case with any new form of media, really. In the first few years it'll be looked down on, then after a few decades it'll be like nobody's business."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "I wonder, what'll come after games."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "And what our generation  will reject."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji shrugs. "Who knows?"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I'm going to do my best to avoid it, though."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara asks, "Oh?"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Immediately rejecting whatever comes next, I mean."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji likes to be open-minded.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Ohhh. Well, of course. Hopefully a new era with explosion of information would educate us enough."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "And that our society and general values as humanity as a whole can evolve fast enough to catch up, heh."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet exclaims, "We'll reject new music!"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "And also probably like...virtual reality or something"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "VR's application to game would be scarily accepted by a huge chunk of people."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Them kids and their virtual reality."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji exclaims, "Back in my day, we played games on flat screens!"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Really, VR adaptation to modern society is interesting taking a roothold."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji exclaims, "From across the room!"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "... Back in my days, I roll dices and write down numbers."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "That too."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara Stone Age dice.
[Public] Chronicler Phantom exclaims, "Back in my day the virtual reality was my /brain/!"
[Public] Chronicler Phantom caneshake
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara pokes Phantom in the eyes.
[Public] Chronicler Phantom falls off a cliff
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara exclaims, "And my fingers the input for your output!"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It's funny because input is usually called male and output is usually called female and you're an umbrella."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "..."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara blushes.
[Public] Chronicler Phantom climbs up to the edge of the cliff. "Admit it! You've got a crush!"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "... Regardless, it's nice to see people like you. Even if our specifics probably won't resonate, I am glad to know another that shares the core value in regard of gaming."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I share the same sentiments."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "What core value is that? I missed most of that convo"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara also crushes Phantom. "Yep, got it."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "And too  sleepy to backscroll"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Storytelling."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "At least that's what I think it was."
[Public] Chronicler Phantom krsh
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Ah. Yeah I like good stories in my games too but..."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "That's a bit general, it's something deeper and more specific, a non-measurable values about the philosophy that guides a person."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Problem is plots get recycled"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I think I'm getting jaded :<"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I'm not interested in nearly as many games anymore"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I'm very selective of the games I play."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "In traditional fairy tales, in accordance of an article I've read,"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "There are 16 reoccuring general plot devices."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I mostly play plotless multiplayer/puzzle games/Dwarf Fortess now or some specific games liek the Witcher 2 and I'm waiting on Deus Ex 3"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "All fairy tales are consists part of a whole from them."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Homeric hymns and the like are not from one single person, and the performance of bard is actually base on a few other things and never the same each time."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I want to say I miss the plots of old games but really it's not that the plots are worse now, just that they're so...predictable for me, now."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Homeric hymns and the performance of bards are what games seek to acheive from an idealist of our type's point of view."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "It's like, I played uhh...Front Mission Evolved."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "In that realize that plotis..."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "And I called exactly what would happen to each character the first time they show up"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Honestly, though, despite basic plots getting recycled, it's what you do with that basic plot that counts."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Because everything is so archetypical now :<"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "*archetypal"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Plot is a narrative of events, the emphasis falling on causality."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Good games will think of the concept they're using and try to see it in a new light."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "E. M. Forster, Aspects of the Novel."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Heavy Rain had a decent plot"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I liked it."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I think Demon's Souls did its plot fantastically."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "The plot itself was simple. It was the little things you read and pick up as you go along."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I never got very far in Demon's Souls. It's unintuitiveness annoyed me"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It's my favorite game in history."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Which is why I'm so excited for Dark Souls."
[Public] Mighty and Terrible Beleth asks, "Is that the sequel?"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Spiritual sequel. Completely new plot and world, similar concepts."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Ah. I hope they explain some of thos econcepts better this time round :P"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji asks, "Like what, out of curiosity?"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Ahem. "Games are limited to very rigid plotlines because they do not have an abstract representation of the story structure that would allow them to distinguish between a particular intantion and a generic morpheme. - -  A morphlological appraoch would require more ambitious programming but would offer much greater plot variation...""
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Maybe it was just because I read all the little notes and descriptions for everything I found and saw in the game, but I thought it was very expansive."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I don't know, I don't think that game storylines have to be any more rigid than those of books or movies."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "The world tendency and stuff"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "That is, in my own intrepretation to the book in my lap, games are limited in storyline in comparison to the form of performance that bards of old times and on-the-spot dungeon masters, due to the ridigity of program."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "None of that was explained in game. Mechanics wise"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Oh, that stuff."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "But that may be of good rather than bad."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Yeah, I used the Demon's Souls Wiki for that kind of thing."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods to Kogasa. "Possibly."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "The clsoest thing to that is open world games Kogasa"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "And they generally just lack plot"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara shakes head, you are missing the point, of course.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Rather than that, the thing that is missing is the human touch in storytelling. Which is obvious."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Games require either a rigid storyline, or a storyteller."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "I mean, for the story to be good."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Yeah I understood I was just saying the closest thing to a morphological plot is open world"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Which is basically no plot"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I didn't say that was a GOOD morphological plot x3"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara shakes, bardic tales of old are morphological in that they are consists of about 16 different elements with 6 being set in stone (See hero's journey for template, and aforementioned Vladimir.. P.)
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet asks, "Oh where it changes with the teller you mean?"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet asks, "So like for every play through the plot would be differnet I guess?"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "That would be hard :O."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Which would mean that in each telling of each segment of Odyssey from Homer to another one would be base on other "variables" present. In the weather, the crowd, the "player" themselves sometimes."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "(As an example.)"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I think there have been a few games that have tried to do that."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Or something like that."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara nods!
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "But most have... failed, sadly. ._."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Dragon Age Origins has a different initial plot based on background choice and such"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "It's not an easy thing to do."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "But nothing like a full different plot"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "I guess they do those games where you've got morality choices that split it but again, it's not really the same"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Not at all. Players are forced at chokepoints to make choices, and some things will Always Happen No Helping It."
[Public] Watermelon Ninja Suika Ibuki curls around Remilia.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Yeah that's what I mean"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "It's not really the same~"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji reminded of InFamous.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet hugs Suika.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Or Star Wars : KotOR or anything with a good/evil system"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "You'd need one that's basically got a GM"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Who just adjusts your plot as you go along and swaps story segments in and out"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "So each plathrough is differnet"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Which would be HAAAARD"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "This is, of course, taking game to a theoretical next level, in terms of storytelling."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Again, you'd essentially have to make the gmae like 6 times over."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I'd love to be able to do that one day, though."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "So, loooots of work."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Yeah it would be pretty cool x3"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Requirement would be a robust, comprehensive AI, which is impossible until technological advancement in... Well, CompSci."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I think I might make that my life goal. I can certainly dedicate myself enough to it."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Do it up~"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Or, someone insane enough to ded- yeahh."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "You have to let me help though XD"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I am certainly insane enough."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "Yeah, I'm not sure I could do it entirely alone."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Let me not convince you of that, because that next step is not for you to take alone,"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "But rather for the entire world to take."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "And it's only -ONE- theoretical direction."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji nods.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara... now pushes glasses up, this all being 5 years of education + digestion, and only a small part of it.
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "And this can't be put on my portfolio or anything to help me land a job in appopriate job field. Fun. :D"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji patpat
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara sighs, all there is to do is to hide and weave concepts in games, and slowly worm the way, and hope my voice will be heard, if I "shout" loud enough.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "You just gotta be a successful indie developer Kogasa :D"
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet exclaims, "You can do it!"
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "I was gonna say."
[Public] Black Bird of Chernobyl Utsuho Reiuji says, "That's still a viable option."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Well, "ludology" vs. "narratology", this round, we are leaning toward Narratology."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "But let us never forget the Ludology aspect of the balance."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet asks, "Ludology?"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Study of Games."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "Ludology versus Narratology refers to a about 2 - 3 decade old debate between mechanics game designer and storyteller game designer."
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Ah"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_studies#Humanities"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara temple rubs, for remembering the content of the link off-hand.
[Public] The Scarlet Devil Remilia Scarlet says, "Silly Moegasa"
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "You'll see that the book I've been re-reading, Hamlet on the Holodeck, being mentioned as a book in the list. It actually takes a fairly neutral view on the debate between the two sides, as far as I find, with a bit of favoring to Narratology."
[Public] Urameshiya! Kogasa Tatara says, "... *cracks knuckle* That was a fun debate, all in all."