[18:06:02] %Deathikyu: To many, Greece is the mother of democracy
[18:06:05] %Deathikyu: and in many ways that is right
[18:06:16] %Deathikyu: but Greece is also the origin of a far more important aspect of modern day life
[18:06:19] %Deathikyu: and that is economy
[18:06:34] %Deathikyu: For one, the word economy comes for the greek Oikonomia
[18:06:41] %Deathikyu: So let's begin by checking what that means
[18:06:50] %Deathikyu: Oiko(s) nomia
[18:07:22] %Deathikyu: now, in general, can anyone "guess" what oikonomia means
[18:07:37] %Deathikyu: just based of what the word looks like/reminds you of/anything really
[18:07:52] @A Phantom: ~~yogurt based economy~~
[18:08:06] %Deathikyu: p ants
[18:08:10] @A Phantom: what does it mean
[18:08:12] %Deathikyu: seriuz guezzes only pls
[18:08:20] %Deathikyu: Well
[18:08:42] %Deathikyu: Oikonomia comes from the term "Oikos" which means family, and nomia, management-ish. The term means "the management of the family"
[18:08:52] %Deathikyu: Which might seem weird
[18:09:04] %Deathikyu: because economy and "management of the family" are not exactly things you'd compare
[18:09:14] %Deathikyu: Which is where the first important point in this lecture will go
[18:09:25] %Deathikyu: The specific term "Oikonomia/Economy" in Greece
[18:09:50] %Deathikyu: .link http://classics.oxfordre.com/fileasset/Map%201%20FINAL%20aegean.jpg
[18:09:51] |html|<div class="infobox"><a href="http://classics.oxfordre.com/fileasset/Map%201%20FINAL%20aegean.jpg"><img src="http://classics.oxfordre.com/fileasset/Map%201%20FINAL%20aegean.jpg" width="400" height="240"/></a></div>
[18:09:58] %Deathikyu: If you look at this map you get a feel for the Aegean world
[18:10:07] %Deathikyu: You'll notice a lot of it is focused on islands or the peloponesos
[18:10:19] %Deathikyu: In general these lands aren't the best for produce
[18:10:38] %Deathikyu: and trade-wise they are legit horrible as moving or navigating roads (or building roads) in them is terribly hard
[18:11:00] %Deathikyu: Which means/meant that the Greeks had to make do with what the ycould, which is where the idea of a city state comes in play
[18:11:13] %Deathikyu: these cities had to fend for themselves largely, and that is why they became as independent as they were
[18:11:20] |tournament|battleend|Lycanium Z|Kilima|loss|0,2|success|battle-gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-828118341
[18:11:28] %Deathikyu: Part of this independence meant the people that lived in the city had to contribute to the city
[18:11:40] %Deathikyu: as there was no such thing as "buying" things from a market if another villager didn't produce something
[18:11:50] |tournament|battlestart|Kilima|Lycanium Z|battle-gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-828120985
[18:11:52] *Kid A: /announce Watch the finals of the tournament! <<battle-gen7superstaffbrosbrawl-828120985>>
[18:11:55] %Deathikyu: oh shut up
[18:12:04] %Deathikyu: Of course, most people realize that they didn't have chinese porcelain in their stores
[18:12:13] %Deathikyu: but for the Greeks it went further than that
[18:12:28] %Deathikyu: they had "nothing" not produced in their own polis (term for a city state, refers to the city + people)
[18:12:38] %Deathikyu: Of course some of these cities traded
[18:12:46] %Deathikyu: and later ship trade would become very popular and thrive
[18:12:58] %Deathikyu: But the fundamental focus of these cities laid in the cities themselves
[18:13:05] %Deathikyu: So how did the inner economy work
[18:13:19] %Deathikyu: In general there are 3 levels of influence
[18:13:33] %Deathikyu: Sacred (Religious) - Public - Private
[18:14:07] %Deathikyu: The Sacred Level held control of sacred land, temples, and usually small pieces of land to serve for the temple and priests. They generally did little beyond that, though sometimes managed loan services (later on)
[18:14:23] %Deathikyu: The public level, which includes the government atg the time, was basically "the people"
[18:14:34] %Deathikyu: everything that happened happened in the public level usually
[18:14:43] %Deathikyu: Lumber mills, Quarries, Metal Quarries, Gold mines
[18:14:47] %Deathikyu: all of those belonged to the city
[18:15:09] %Deathikyu: Much like today, the city would then hire a man to "work" for them and exploit these mines
[18:15:14] %Deathikyu: which is the private level
[18:15:29] %Deathikyu: This is basically subcontracting like we know it nowadays
[18:15:38] %Deathikyu: which is a first point of similarity between modern and old economy
[18:15:57] %Deathikyu: I'll spare you the details on each exploit, but in general Greeks did not use money
[18:16:07] %Deathikyu: They had silver, and this silver was melted into (for example) rods
[18:16:13] %Deathikyu: where the rods were the valuable you traded with
[18:16:51] %Deathikyu: The coins (Drachmae) were actually only brought into practise around 480BC
[18:16:59] %Deathikyu: And with them came the banking system
[18:17:17] %Deathikyu: Loans, paper money (as in, a note with a valuable amount on it)
[18:17:28] @A Phantom: (ignore this and continue paying attention to the lecture)
[18:17:30] @A Phantom: fuck
[18:17:33] @A Phantom: moving on
[18:17:35] %Deathikyu: l;ol
[18:17:45] %Deathikyu: Now, you might be wondering why the greek world wasn't more united them
[18:17:50] %Deathikyu: after all they had the inner workings down
[18:17:54] %Deathikyu: and there was trade
[18:17:56] %Deathikyu: the longer the more
[18:18:04] %Deathikyu: So in theory you'd expect the cities to be in good contact
[18:18:16] %Deathikyu: However, the Greek world was plagued by 3 things
[18:18:30] %Deathikyu: 1. Banditry: Bandits were a massive issue in Greece and constantly plagued the roads and trade routes
[18:18:44] %Deathikyu: 2. Pirates: Shocker, piratry was legal in Greece.
[18:19:10] %Deathikyu: now, legal is a loose word. Technically it was allowed to attack other cities' ships and take the cargo for yourself
[18:19:26] %Deathikyu: where each polis (city) only protected their own ships
[18:19:51] %Deathikyu: and where a major "right" within a city (privilege) was to be granted safety of passage - no pirate may take your cargo in Athenian waters, for example

[18:20:09] %Deathikyu: The concept if foreign to us - but basically you could take everything you wanted if it wasn't from an athenian ship.
[18:20:20] %Deathikyu: This of course did not build trust between cities
[18:20:21] %Deathikyu: but the
[18:20:25] %Deathikyu: 3rd issue was much bigger:
[18:20:25] %Deathikyu: war
[18:20:33] %Deathikyu: Greek cities were constantly at war with each other
[18:20:38] %Deathikyu: seldomly knowing a moment of peace
[18:20:46] %Deathikyu: The main issue was the Persian threat from the east
[18:21:02] %Deathikyu: And of course the issues climaxed in the Peloponesian war
[18:21:14] %Deathikyu: Where Spartan soldiers dispatched to Athens to help against the Persians, only to be turned away
[18:21:27] %Deathikyu: common say is that the shame was so big that Sparta refused to let it slide
[18:21:48] %Deathikyu: Even after the war, these cities were rivals, they hated each other often
[18:22:10] EspeonxSyvelon: Hi.What's up?
[18:22:27] %Deathikyu: And as such when the Delian league under Athens rose, it wasn't a trade union like you might think

[18:22:43] (Deathikyu notes: can someone make him be quiet)
[18:22:54] %Deathikyu: it was Athens dominating a market and telling effectively everyone to either join and pay a certain amount of money for the support of the league
[18:22:58] %Deathikyu: or to be an enemy of the league
[18:23:05] %Deathikyu: it was far from a friendly union

[18:23:33] %Deathikyu: This latter factor and the factor of war is why the Greek World never united economically and never managed to became a full fledged trade union

[18:23:46] %Deathikyu: The first time trade in Greece actually flourished beyond the current levels
[18:24:01] %Deathikyu: was when Alexander the Great conquered all of it and united it under the Corinthian league
[18:24:16] %Deathikyu: (except for Sparta, which lost a war against Thebes and faded into irrelevance)
[18:24:36] %Deathikyu: United under Alexander, the city states remained independent but didn't wage war
[18:24:46] %Deathikyu: and as such they traded with each other (except sparta) more
[18:25:11] %Deathikyu: After the fall of the Macedonian kingdom/Corinthian League, The romans came along, and the Greek city states never regained their independence as before
[18:25:28] %Deathikyu: which ended the grand cities and their self-dependent oikonomia
[18:25:32] %Deathikyu: in favor of the roman system
[18:25:45] %Deathikyu: To draw a parallel to modern dayu
[18:25:59] %Deathikyu: the greek system can be seen as a base of capitalism, but it's a very weak connection
[18:26:30] %Deathikyu: the Greeks had a system that worked on small scale because they had small populace, a large pool of workers, and some luck at times
[18:26:43] %Deathikyu: The fact it looks a bit like capitalism is, in most ways, coincidence.
[18:26:54] %Deathikyu: And with that the lecture is over, I hope you learned something.