Peace and War - Manipulation after first ban on KHV

Friday, 8 February 2013

[20:19:30] Ross: out of the blue i know but i have questions
[20:20:11] Makaze: Shoot.
[20:22:07] Ross: why do you still skulk on KHV? Would've thought knowing your track history of banning that you usually jump to another ship
[20:22:44] Makaze: KHV is the best forum I have been on in a long time.
[20:24:19] Ross: so...  why not look for another like it?
[20:24:42] Makaze: Because there isn't one.
[20:27:27] Ross: that's a bit final
[20:30:18] Ross: Just not healthy imo
[20:30:38] Ross: you'd get much more from actually being in a proper forum you can post
[20:31:11] Makaze: I agree.
[20:31:55] Makaze: I have been around the block many times.
[20:32:15] Makaze: KHV has had just the right collection of people.
[20:32:43] Makaze: I may be able to find individuals like some individuals on KHV, but not the same mix.
[20:33:39] Makaze: My track history of banning rarely coincides with my track history of sites I like.
[20:34:13] Makaze: Most sites I have liked have died out with time, I was not banned.
[20:34:21] Makaze: I do not skulk them because they do not exist.
[20:35:40] Ross: It's like your swigging down your favourite drink, now that's it dried up, you're still trying to pour the contents of the glass out in anyway you can, trying to get what ever morsels are left, getting no joy from them
[20:36:10] Ross: I saw your staff app, you listed about 7 bans I believe over the years
[20:36:18] Makaze: Yes.
[20:36:32] Makaze: Only one of them was from a site I enjoyed.
[20:36:57] Makaze: Like KHV, I was a member there for two years and got banned despite having broken no rules.
[20:37:42] Makaze: It took me a very long time to get over it.
[20:37:51] Makaze: KHV was the replacement.
[20:38:40] Makaze: I have a question for you.
[20:38:55] Makaze: Why did you approach me to ask this?
[20:39:23] Ross: oy vey
[20:39:32] Ross: Because I know you're not letting go
[20:40:00] Ross: and I wondered if you were both aware and wanting to keep a grip on the site
[20:40:13] Makaze: Aware of what?
[20:40:41] Ross: aware that you're still holding on, desperate for it
[20:41:03] Makaze: You did not wonder, you passed judgment on my answer. You were not curious, you wanted to convince me that I should leave altogether.
[20:41:12] Ross: You could've been delusional and not realised that you're doing it but you are
[20:41:47] Ross: ulterior motive perhaps, but that's more of an afterthought to mo
[20:42:01] Ross: *me
[20:42:17] Ross: I wanted to know if you were aware of your situation
[20:42:18] Ross: you are
[20:42:23] Ross: so that's it
[20:42:27] Makaze: If you are concerned about my health then perhaps you should work to get me unbanned.
[20:42:58] Ross: Why would i work for you when you're not working for yourself?
[20:43:10] Makaze: Because you are concerned?
[20:44:35] Ross: I would help you if you helped yourself first
[20:44:45] Ross: my concern
[20:44:47] Makaze: I do not believe that.
[20:45:11] Makaze: I believe you would vote against me if I made an appeal at the nine month mark.
[20:45:46] Ross: if you had changed maybe I would
[20:45:56] Ross: but you're still same
[20:46:15] Makaze: Would vote against?
[20:46:33] Ross: If you had changed I might have voted for you back
[20:46:44] Ross: doubt my vote would've made a difference though
[20:46:49] Makaze: You are not helping your case.
[20:47:00] Ross: why?
[20:47:31] Makaze: How*
[20:50:16] Makaze: Your reason for approaching me and asking these questions was not because you are concerned. You have implied that your reasons for wanting me banned relate to my personality and not to the charges in question. You dislike me aside from the charges against me. Furthermore you acknowledge that I have a deep attachment to the site, so you see that I mean no ill will towards the site. You, as an individual, want me gone. You would use the premise of my health as an excuse.
[20:53:10] Makaze: Your reasons for keeping me banned are not reason enough to ban me in the first place.
[20:54:07] Makaze: Your personal preference would make your vote, and it would be against me.
[20:55:08] Makaze: I do not appreciate your abuse of power and bias in this area and I certainly feel no air of concern about you.
[20:55:31] Ross: You are so blind it's amazing
[20:56:32] Makaze: Your arrogance knows few bounds. You would make such a blanket insult without countering any specific point.
[20:57:57] Ross: Makaze, you don' care about my argument, you'll dismiss it as you have always done. You've literally dismissed every statement I said
[20:58:14] Ross: Your argument is ludicrous and flase
[20:58:20] Ross: *false
[20:58:24] Makaze: You are not being specific.
[20:59:04] Ross: I really don't care enough to get into specific with you, you nit pick way too much, you can never look at a broader picture
[20:59:40] Makaze: You could say these things without changing a word no matter what we were discussing or what I said in response.
[21:00:56] Makaze: It is hard to take you seriously when nothing you say has a specific application. 'Your argument is' What is my argument? Which part? 'dismissed every statement I said' What were your statements? Where did I dismiss them?
[21:01:36] Ross: You address my statements and then ask what statements of mine i'm referring to?
[21:01:52] Makaze: Addressing them is the opposite of dismissing them.
[21:02:50] Ross: Look, all I was trying to do was stop a little bit of pain, bit of mine, bit of yours, bit of KHVs
[21:03:08] Ross: you're stagnant, again
[21:03:10] Ross: move on
[21:03:12] Makaze: KHVs?
[21:03:18] Ross: members
[21:03:41] Makaze: How does this pain them?
[21:04:57] Ross: You're still manipulating many members on there, manipulation in your way is a sort of pain, whether immediate or delayed
[21:05:20] Makaze: Who are you thinking of?
[21:06:39] Ross: You know who, you're just wondering how many of them i know
[21:07:01] Makaze: No, I'm wondering how many of them I know.
[21:07:27] Makaze: I don't manipulate people intentionally.
[21:08:32] Ross: I think you've proven you're not delusional, so you obviously understand that you do
[21:08:53] Makaze: I do manipulate others, but I don't always realize it.
[21:09:15] Ross: it may be your actions are so instinctive it goes by you
[21:09:20] Makaze: Don't know my own strength, as they say.
[21:09:35] Ross: weakness i would say
[21:09:49] Makaze: It's an ability.
[21:10:28] Makaze: Can you answer now? I'm curious.
[21:11:14] Makaze: [9:09:15 PM] Ross: it may be your actions are so instinctive it goes by you
[21:11:19] Makaze: Sidenote this is correct.
[21:11:29] Makaze: I only recognize it in retrospect.
[21:11:49] Ross: You're trying to manipulate right now
[21:12:53] Ross: you're trying to get an upper hand by making me tell you who i know you're manipulating, giving you the chance to follow up and defend your actions
[21:13:20] Makaze: Not at all, I don't have a reason to defend these particular actions.
[21:13:36] Makaze: I might ask you what you thought I was doing if I were confused by one of them.
[21:13:57] Makaze: If it's someone I think I respect for instance.
[21:14:56] Makaze: Manipulation doesn't carry such a negative connotation for me as it does for you, I think.
[21:15:05] Makaze: No matter what I say, it affects those who hear it.
[21:15:13] Makaze: Everyone manipulates others, knowingly or not.
[21:15:39] Makaze: I don't see a reason to defend myself when I probably don't see it as negative.
[21:15:52] Makaze: I'll just be aware of myself if you tell me your thoughts.
[21:17:37] Ross: You're a fish in a pool of water. Why can you not find the stream?
[21:17:59] Makaze: What is the stream a metaphor for?
[21:18:42] Ross: Life
[21:19:12] Ross: Some symbol of movement from your current state
[21:19:21] Makaze: What is life a metaphor for?
[21:19:31] Ross: Being better
[21:20:22] Makaze: Why do you keep claiming that I am unchanging?
[21:20:36] Ross: Because you are
[21:20:47] Ross: You're the same person who joined the forum years ago
[21:20:57] Makaze: I have changed quite a lot since then, actually...
[21:21:10] Ross: You have the same views, the same self assertion, the selfishness
[21:21:24] Makaze: Incorrect on all three.
[21:21:46] Ross: You're the same person, deeper then that stuff
[21:21:58] Ross: At your core you've just not changed
[21:22:15] Makaze: Why do you say so?
[21:23:29] Ross: You act the same, are the same, say the same, talk the same
[21:24:00] Ross: You don't want to leave KHV when it clearly is moving
[21:24:11] Ross: It's moving but you're not
[21:24:12] Makaze: Wrong on all but the second, the second one is a restatement of the premise
[21:24:55] Ross: You literally have not changed.... These statements disregarding my views is just one of many reasons why I believe you're the same
[21:25:01] Ross: You've been doing it for years
[21:27:57] Makaze: I'm not disregarding them, I keep logs and can search through KHV as well, or on FB, et cetera. I am very different from who I was when I joined KHV.
[21:29:08] Ross: If it wasn't for the evidence of the attempt to hack, you definitely would've been banned on your behaviour towards others
[21:29:39] Makaze: There we go.
[21:31:15] Ross: You believe it's some how abusing power that your attitude towards members was hurtful and something not to be addressed?
[21:31:39] Ross: Because your default for everything is some hierarchy you seem to hold
[21:32:27] Makaze: I believe that I did not deserve a ban based on my behavior.
[21:33:03] Ross: You didn't get a ban for that.
[21:33:25] Ross: But honestly, you are faultless when it comes to your behaviour
[21:33:34] Makaze: What?
[21:33:43] Ross: Sarcasm
[21:34:07] Makaze: I did not bear ill will towards any members, even those I challenged, I wished to help. That became apparent when I corrected people like Vivi for calling other members worthless and wishing they would just leave.
[21:35:29] Ross: ... Seriously.... I can't believe no one has punched you in real life for talking...
[21:35:31] Makaze: My behavior has not been the best on all occasions, but I have not been so terrible as to warrant a ban.
[21:35:46] Ross: You didn't get banned for that.
[21:35:58] Makaze: I know.
[21:36:20] Makaze: I am addressing your claim that I would have been banned based on it.
[21:37:15] Ross: You do realise that other members disliked your aggressive and derogatory behaviour right?
[21:37:25] Makaze: Some of them, yeah.
[21:37:56] Ross: And yet you see no fault in yourself
[21:40:09] Makaze: I hold no ill will, so I can only view their distaste as a misunderstanding or dislike for conflict itself.
[21:40:59] Ross: You hold a very childish view of the world
[21:42:14] Makaze: Your tendency to insult has gotten stronger.
[21:43:22] Ross: Your tendency to dismiss statements made against you without an iota of consideration is stronger.
[21:43:58] Makaze: ? I considered it, it was an insult.
[21:44:14] Makaze: There was no other way to take it.
[21:44:31] Makaze: If I wanted to analyze the meaning, I could take from it that you dislike children as well as me.
[21:45:10] Ross: Oy vey, such a narrow view
[21:45:19] Ross: Insults come from observations
[21:45:33] Makaze: Then state your observations.
[21:45:35] Ross: It's not random, it's select, unique to you
[21:45:47] Ross: I did, you have a childish view
[21:45:48] Makaze: Without specifics, it is random.
[21:46:11] Makaze: You could say that to anyone whose view you disliked.
[21:46:23] Makaze: And it would have the same effectiveness.
[21:46:47] Ross: You have no self conceived faults, you believe no one understands or can understand you, you're better than others
[21:46:55] Ross: That's all child like
[21:46:59] Ross: Teenage like even
[21:47:13] Makaze: I don't believe those things.
[21:47:46] Makaze: I believe that people who think I hold ill will misunderstand me.
[21:47:50] Makaze: That isn't everyone.
[21:47:59] Makaze: And I think they can understand me, so I try to explain.
[21:48:57] Makaze: I also believe that I could be worse than them or wrong on the issue, so I will discuss it ad infinitum until I understand them and they understand me, and we both know where each other stand.
[21:49:46] Ross: All murderers, rapists, committers of genocide are just misunderstood
[21:50:06] Makaze: They are misunderstood, but that isn't all they are.
[21:52:43] Ross: You focus a lot on a perceived hierarchy.
[21:53:34] Makaze: Aside from the validity of that claim, why do you bring that up?
[21:53:59] Ross: Because you keep bringing it up
[21:54:01] Makaze: Does it hold relevance to anything else we have spoken on?
[21:54:20] Ross: You keep caring where you stand or where others stand to you
[21:54:29] Ross: Like it makes a difference
[21:54:45] Makaze: Give an example/scenario?
[21:55:20] Ross: I also believe that I could be worse than them or wrong on the issue, so I will discuss it ad infinitum until I understand them and they understand me, and we both know where each other stand.
[21:55:53] Makaze: Ah, I think you percieved the hierarchy there.
[21:56:18] Makaze: If we come to an understanding like I meant there, it would mean that we were on completely different paths and thus could not agree.
[21:56:33] Makaze: i.e. we want different things
[21:56:59] Makaze: I can't be better than someone who wants different things than me.
[21:57:52] Ross: That's a way of avoidance then
[21:58:05] Makaze: What do you mean?
[21:59:58] Ross: Psychology mumbo jumbo. You won't agree with it.
[22:00:32] Makaze: Seems to me there are only two options.
[22:01:17] Makaze: Analyze your position relative to a hierarchy, or see each person as on their own path, which is neither better nor worse than your own.
[22:01:25] Makaze: If I do the former, you criticize that on its own merit.
[22:01:35] Makaze: If I do the latter, I am avoiding.
[22:01:57] Ross: Suppose so
[22:02:12] Ross: Anyway it's 3 in the morning and I am tired
[22:02:18] Makaze: Good night.
[22:02:22] Ross: Have a pleasant sleep
[22:02:23] Makaze: Thank you for the log.
[22:02:45] Ross: The log of what?
[22:03:05] Makaze: This conversation.
[22:04:22] Ross: You offer nothing but pain. You offer manipulation for your own gain. You are the fat of the pork. The America of manipulation. Truly you are their child.
[22:06:27] Makaze: Wow.
[22:06:31] Makaze: That is quite an insult.