englanddg repeated whataboutism

englanddg
Damn, this channel shrunk.
15:47 englanddg
Good evening were, lednerk.
englanddg
reppy
englanddg
fiery
englanddg
Howdy howdy.
15:48 englanddg
Oh, I dunno.  I haven't been lurking IRC for a while.  Came on tonight just to see who was still around.  I popped in and it's dead over there.
englanddg
The impeachment is...amusing.  Dunno if it will go anywhere.  It does make for good election fodder though.  I'm frankly shocked Pelosi actually passed it to the Senate.  Giving Trump a "vindicated" stamp before the election is bad tactics.
dez- has joined ([email protected])
englanddg
But, then again, she handled the town halls for ACA, so, she's not great at tactics....
Sooner
englanddg back just in time for impeachment trial
englanddg
Do I know you by a different nick Sooner?
Sooner
no
englanddg
Ok, cool.  Well, nice to meet you then!
Sooner
I've been here for years
infspire
englanddg: Do you support Donald Trump?
Sooner
wtf
englanddg
So have I.  Since 2008 even.  But, I don't remember you.  Sorry my memory fails.
Sooner
not good
englanddg
No.  It isn't.  Happens with age though.
englanddg
infspire - I'm a libertarian / conservative, if one must apply a label.  Not quite sipping the ancap tea...but close.  "support" Trump is a bit much.  I don't think he's amazing, but I did support and vote for him in 2016.
englanddg
A 'radical'?
infspire
I see.
englanddg
Dude, I can't shred the waves like that.
infspire
How do you feel about him reaching out to allied nations for personal gain at the expense of our shared national security?
englanddg
I don't think much of it.
infspire
Interesting.
Sooner
so Hillary doing the same would be a-ok
Sooner
or Obama
infspire
englanddg: Do you agree with the Department of Defense that Russia is an adversary of the United States?
infspire
Specifically, I'm citing the 4+2 top-level military doctrine that explicitly names Russia as one of the primary adversaries of the United States.
englanddg
I didn't bang the "Hillary Benghazi" drum, so, no, I don't care.  Greased palms and back end deals are normal.  It doesn't surprise me when it becomes public.  Though, that could be because I worked in politics just long enough to know that I didn't want to work in politics.
infspire
Perhaps it is the 4+1 model -- I believe Mattis called it the 4+2 model in his confirmation hearings.
infspire
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2017/02/24/joint-chiefs-chairman-dunford-transnational-threats/
infspire
In his conversation with Brookings Senior Fellow Michael O’Hanlon, co-director of the Center for 21st Century Security and Intelligence, General Dunford described the “4 + 1 framework” that guides not only prioritization of countries and groups (e.g., Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, and transnational violent extremism), but also the kinds of capabilities and flexibilities the U.S. needs to prepare for challenge
infspire
s this century. Watch:
Sooner
Benghazi wasn't a "back end deal"
englanddg
Meh, Meuller is yesterdays nothing burger.  I don't trust Russia, I also don't trust China, or really any foreign power.  Nor should they trust us, implicitly.
infspire
englanddg: Nobody mentioned Mueller.
englanddg
OldSch00l did.
englanddg
And my response was to him.
infspire
I asked you if you agree with DoD threat assessment that labels Russia as an adversary of the United States.
Sooner
so you don't care that Russia hacked our election?
englanddg
"hacked our election"...pfft.
Sooner
so they didn't?
infspire
Sooner: You're asking questions easy for him to evade.
infspire
Notice how he avoids addressing my question.
OldSch00l
Russia didn't compromise the actual voting machines
OldSch00l
and they will use that as a deflection
OldSch00l
academicall
infspire
Because it's designed to allow no wiggle room.
OldSch00l
y
Sooner
they hacked the DNC
infspire initiates a time for englanddg
Sooner
not voting machines
infspire
timer*
englanddg
infspire - I most certainly do agree, and agreed all along, that Russia is not to be trusted.
infspire
Are they are our adversary?
Sooner
they had millions of social media bots spreading falsehoods
infspire
As the Department of Defense asserts?
Sooner
and they'll do it again
englanddg
Adversary, yes.  But, so are many countries.  Antagonist?  No.  I don't think they are that.
infspire
I didn't ask you about "many countries".
OldSch00l
do you disagree with the now Commander in Chief refusing to even name or acknowledge the known perpetrator of these attacks because they happened to benefit him personally?
infspire
englanddg: Was Russia's invasion of Ukraine and their ongoing war in Ukraine illegal?
englanddg
I can't speak to international law, but their actions in Ukraine and Georgia were and are disturbing.
englanddg
I said it then (akin to the "bear awaking").
infspire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
englanddg
I'm a child of the cold war, I don't trust Russia at all.  But, I also don't trust our European allies who seem intent on diminishing their own reliance upon Russian O&G rather than any principals.
infspire
Ukraine and many world leaders condemned the annexation and consider it to be a violation of international law and Russian-signed agreements safeguarding the territorial integrity of Ukraine, including the Belavezha Accords establishing the Commonwealth of Independent States in 1991, the Helsinki Accords, the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994 and the Treaty on friendship, cooperation and partnership be
infspire
tween the Russian Federation and Ukraine.[46][47] It led to the other members of the then G8 suspending Russia from the group,[48] then introducing the first round of sanctions against the country.
OldSch00l
and assassinating people on the soil of our closest ally with exotic radioactive isotopes and chemical weapons?
infspire
The United Nations General Assembly also rejected the vote and annexation, adopting a non-binding resolution affirming the "territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders".[49][50] The UN resolution also "underscores that the referendum having no validity, cannot form the basis for any alteration of the status of [Crimea]" and calls upon all States and international organizations not to
infspire
recognize or to imply the recognition of Russia's annexation.[50] In 2016, UN General Assembly reaffirmed non-recognition of the annexation and condemned "the temporary occupation of part of the territory of Ukraine—the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol".[51][52]
infspire
englanddg: I didn't ask you about other countries.
englanddg
In any case, all of this is old news.
infspire
Irrelevant.
englanddg
And, what has come of it will come.
infspire
History is important.
infspire
englanddg: Do you know the two conditions under international law when war is legal?
englanddg
I know.  I own that domain, actually.
infspire
UNSC authorization and self-defense.
infspire
Neither of those necessary pre-conditions are met.
englanddg
whyhistoryisimportant.com  Never did shit with it.  And, GoDaddy is pissing at me that I need to pay them again for it, and I'm debating it.
infspire
Therefore, yes, their invasion, annexation, and continued occupation is illegal.
infspire
englanddg: What geopolitical policy led Putin to conduct this illegal attack?
infspire
(There are many videos of him telling us his geopolitical strategy.)
englanddg
infspire - A better question is, who complained outside of strongly worded letters?
infspire
Relevance is not detected.
englanddg
Sure as hell wasn't the Obama administration.
infspire
englanddg: Putin has stated that he considers the collapse of the Soviet Union to be the worst event of the 20th century.
englanddg
They've controlled Crimea for a long time now.
infspire
englanddg: Putin has stated he wishes to reconstitute the Soviet Union.
infspire
englanddg: I put you on ignore for two weeks for repeated whataboutism.
infspire
Thank you.