Nixon Buzhardt Haig Talk Huston Plan May 16 1973

Introduction and majority of transcript are from Abuse of Power by Stanley Kutler.

On the eve of the Senate hearings, the sense of crisis heightens. The President hears that the Huston Plan never was operative.

This video will be a supplement to a future essay on Watergate.

Audio file is at nixonlibrary.gov (from 3:08 to 25:46):
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/forresearchers/find/tapes/tape920/920-013a.mp3

Clip with audio and accompanying transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAdaVJF2sOE

MAY 16, 1973: THE PRESIDENT, HAIG, AND BUZHARDT, 8:45-9:33 P.M., OVAL OFFICE
On the eve of the Senate hearings, the sense of crisis heightens. The President hears that the Huston Plan never was operative.

3:08 on the tape

PRESIDENT NIXON: We have to realize they're not after Bob or John or Henry or Haig or Ziegler. They're after the President. Shit. That's what it's all about. You know that. Huh?...They want to destroy us.

HAIG: Yeah. What they're hung up on. They're really in a dilemma up there. They want to get you and yet they don't. And that's tough for them, too.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Maybe.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Maybe you're right. It'd be as well to have...that the president ordered taps on his own aides.

HAIG: You see that's what I'm told is on its way right now, passing it on.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Which is not really what happened.

HAIG: No. Some of it happened. Some of those things, J. Edgar Hoover...he did his own tapping...probably because he had that file book thing. Some of it came from Henry [Kissinger].

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know. Hell of a lot came from Henry.

PRESIDENT NIXON: And I didn't approve of those. The only one I said was...Kraft [Joseph Kraft, columnist] one time, he had a document, I said Goddamn, let's find out who the sonofabitch is.

HAIG: I'll tell you, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference...it's always going to be presented in the context of...decisions were made, based on who had access, had reason to...that involved, within the context of a leak.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yup.

HAIG: That situation coincided with past record...no question about it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Henry's got to clear himself up with this leak thing when he gets back, though. He's gotta step up one day.

HAIG: Well, meanwhile he asked the White House, I better cancel my trip, step up.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Bullshit.

HAIG: I said no.

PRESIDENT NIXON: -that'd get them obsessed with a Washington story, which is not that big...he must stay on his trip, come back...right?

HAIG: If he's still around.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Why wouldn't he be still around?

PRESIDENT NIXON: You know, it's ridiculous that the President of the United States has to spend his time for the last—almost two months—worried about this horse's ass crap. Unbelievable. Come in. Hi, Fred.

BUZHARDT: Yes, sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I hope you got something to eat.

BUZHARDT: Not yet, sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Get something at the mess.

BUZHARDT: I'll get something. It's confirming out very well.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Really? What the hell are the notes?

BUZHARDT: There are no documents. Apparently, Huston was wrong. There was no document turning it on in the first place.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What is this document you've got in the file there?

BUZHARDT: That was from Haldeman telling Huston that the answer was yes. You had made the decision.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Nonono. What about the forty-two page note?

BUZHARDT: Well, that is the statement that presents the picture and the recommendation. There was no action memorandum, though, to tell the people to go into business.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see. . . .

BUZHARDT: Whatsoever. They've all checked. Checked memories of people. He did it by telephone calls.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who'd he-

BUZHARDT: Huston. Huston apparently.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh yeah?

BUZHARDT: The procedure to turn it on, is not prescribed in Haldeman's memorandum. He said, "Instead of using the procedure you suggested, use the one I explained to you. If this doesn't work, come back." Well, that was obviously to call them to tell them to go.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right. I don't want to piss on Haldeman, you understand. Go ahead.

BUZHARDT: That's not...it was, subsequently, they were told no go. They all got the message.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Wait a minute. Was there a no go order?

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. We've got people who remember the no go order.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who?

BUZHARDT: We've got [Assistant to the Director of the FBI] Bill Sullivan...uh, and we'll get the details from him. I just had a lengthy conversation with [him]. [Deputy Director of the NSA] Lou Tordella got the message it was off.

PRESIDENT NIXON: From Haldeman?

BUZHARDT: No sir, none of them got it from Haldeman.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, who gave the order?

BUZHARDT: Huston gave it to Sullivan. And Sullivan called everybody else.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see.

BUZHARDT: And said, no, we're out of business. Huston, I mean, Sullivan was furious. They had convinced Hoover to go with it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah.

BUZHARDT: They had a two and a half hour meeting. They had a decision. They signed off, they sent it in to you, unanimous recommendation. You approved it. It was unanimous. No dissents.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know.

BUZHARDT: Then what I'm told is that [J. Edgar Hoover's deputy, Clyde] Tolson found out about it and got to Hoover.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Clyde Tolson; right?

BUZHARDT: Clyde Tolson. Said this will ruin your image. Hoover then took his copy, footnoted it, screamed at Mitchell, got the issue raised. I think he may even have seen you. They're under the impression he did.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think he did. Yeah.

BUZHARDT: And you suspended the operation. That's the word they used. You suspended it out.

PRESIDENT NIXON: When?

BUZHARDT: It was within two days of it being issued to the best of their recollection.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Jesus Christ. [Laughs.]

BUZHARDT: It just took Hoover a reaction time. Tolson got to him. He came right back. Sullivan thinks he has notes that will give us the precise times. But the whole thing was suspended immediately.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Before he went-

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. Before anybody made the first move.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who else, beside Sullivan-

BUZHARDT: Sullivan- Tordella got the word, and DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency] got the word. They had a little talk...fellows said, get the word, within two days, no go.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Through Huston?

BUZHARDT: Yes. Well, Huston went to Sullivan, Sullivan called the rest of them. Sullivan was ascribed with this operation. He actually wrote that report.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Will Sullivan so state, that he said no go?

BUZHARDT: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Will he stand up for us?

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. I believe he will.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Very important now.

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. And we've got other witnesses that Sullivan called. And Sullivan was furious.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Furious?

BUZHARDT: Oh, he was mad as a wet hen.

(natsec redacted)

BUZHARDT: He finally got Noel Gayler [head of the NSA] up to speed, convinced Noel Gayler, and that's when they raised the thing with Hoover. And they went round and round, Hoover wouldn't go. So they called everybody in, and that's when they came to see Huston-

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's right, Huston-

BUZHARDT: -a fight, and it was fine with Huston, and it went through, but it was no go.

PRESIDENT NIXON: But I assigned Huston, and then Haldeman says "Go," and in two days it was turned off?

BUZHARDT: Within two days they told me, in two days, about two days, it was turned on. Now, Lou Tordella remembers, because he was called by Bill Sullivan, and said, okay, we got the green light. It's finally go. He said, go to work, make a list, it'll take us some time to re-assemble the access to do this, because they had dispersed the type of people to do this operation.

BUZHARDT: And so, Tordella said OK. I'll start work on the list, of targets, but I'm not going to send to you until you get the access in place and are ready to go, because I don't want you to have an outdated list. Well, before they ever assembled the access, or anything, back came...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sullivan.

BUZHARDT: ...and said it's all been suspended. Lou's got notes-

PRESIDENT NIXON: All in order.

BUZHARDT: But they're notes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (unintelligible) notes?

BUZHARDT: Yes, Lou Tordella's got a note of everything. He's in the business of taking everything, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (Unintelligible.)

PRESIDENT NIXON: Then what happened?

BUZHARDT: It never got on. Now the history goes on from there. The question was raised subsequently, once or twice, it never went anywhere. I mean, to show it wasn't going on, they actually made the pitch again, here and now.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah.

BUZHARDT: They never really got a bite on it. And they could never quite get a handle on it, till Pat Gray was appointed [acting director of the FBI].

PRESIDENT NIXON: Shit.

BUZHARDT: No, we didn't have a problem on it, but we came close.  We came close.

BUZHARDT: Pat went out to visit NSA, took four of his assistants with him. And he told Lou Tordella, I understand we used to do some things for you that were very helpful. Lou said yes, that's true. I understand we've cut them off. He said, I'd like to know why the hell they were never go? Well, Lou didn't know all the guys sat around the table...he said, well, maybe some of your own people can tell you. But Lou finally told him. He said, I understand Tolson got to Hoover, and convinced him to scream, because it would hurt his image. One of the guys at the table verified it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know.

BUZHARDT: So then, Pat said, I damn well think we better turn it back- We'll review the situation, weigh the risks, the advantages, see what's what. They started that process, Pat was putting it back together the access, and-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sullivan told you this.

BUZHARDT: Tordella told me this.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh, Tordella. Thank God he's around.

BUZHARDT: And then, they thought Pat was going to run with it. It went about six weeks, Pat tried to re-assemble the access. Because it was real rusty now, since '67, and then, I forgot what it was that happened, that turned off the whole damn thing, but something happened with respect to Pat's appointment or approval or something of this type, and it was all dead.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (Unintelligible.) What is the situation...that they did burglarize?

BUZHARDT: No burglarizing.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Then what in the hell does Dean think, Dean must be relying on something he got in March of '72, he didn't know what the hell he had.

BUZHARDT: You see, all that Dean's documents show is that there was an affirmative decision. By virtue of a memo from Haldeman to Huston. That's all he did.

PRESIDENT NIXON: How do we handle the fact that it was turned off?

BUZHARDT: We tell bluntly, it was turned off, it was never done.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Forty eight hour period.

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. We'll have to check these logs and get the precise times, with the secretary...but we can do that. We'll get that, right down, I've told them to go back on his notes, I want precision-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Get the notes. Get it within a matter of hours, or days. I don't care if it's forty eight days, just that it was turned off. And nothing was done?

BUZHARDT: Nothing was done.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Just contingency plans for such approved...I didn't approve the goddamn policy, I didn't approve a burglary of this or that, you know what I mean?

BUZHARDT: I understand.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Didn't I?

BUZHARDT: No sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sure.

BUZHARDT: And I talk to Bob again...and...Bob doesn't remember...

HAIG: We're talking about things that were done in nineteen sixty-

BUZHARDT: Seven.

HAIG: Nineteen sixty-seven.

BUZHARDT: They were done up until 1967.

(Haig laughs)

PRESIDENT NIXON: The question was, whether we should re-do the things that were done in '67.

BUZHARDT: That is correct. We had warnings from them in that document that wasn't previously known.

HAIG: (Unintelligible.)

BUZHARDT: Well, it was most not recently - not as recently as '67. And that was a black bag job. On internal security targets. Now, we both know how that system worked.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That wasn't done when we were in.

BUZHARDT: No sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Thank god.

BUZHARDT: It was not done then. But we both know how that system worked.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know how.

BUZHARDT: In the early days, Hoover participated.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yup.

BUZHARDT: In the later days, I know, just from dealing with the-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Thank god you're here...what we have to do here, see, our game plan changes a bit, doesn't it?

BUZHARDT: In some respects, but not many, I think...I agree thoroughly that we've got to let Ervin leak this thing. I've already had some elements, that are already putting it out.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Have you? Like what?

BUZHARDT: Let me think of a name. The guy at justice today that I called...they've got complete records.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Mardian should be good for this.

BUZHARDT: I talked to Mardian. Bernie Welles. Bernie Welles actually headed up that committee when he wrote his first paper through his last paper. His paper was on the-

PRESIDENT NIXON: (unintelligible) That was a later effort, after it was turned off.

BUZHARDT: That one wasn't a successive effort, it was something entirely different. And it was clean...But Bernie Welles phoned me this afternoon, he had a phone call, after several other inquiries around town that make it very clear that they have an inkling of this...I think we want to let them get out on a limb.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. I don't think we should move first.

BUZHARDT: No sir. I agree.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Why should we move first, Al?

BUZHARDT: I think it's important, if we make a move, you're going to use...national security grounds as a justification, for not releasing this document. For the damage it would do. You were protecting them. And this is the reason you're worried about the CIA-

PRESIDENT NIXON: And then what? Here is a document of an operation that was never implemented.

BUZHARDT: But since your argument is on national security grounds, you sure don't want to be the one that exposes the operation.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know.

BUZHARDT: Let them do it. They'll do it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. My point is, we gotta get across very fast the fact that, it was never implemented. That this was basically a policy paper that was-

BUZHARDT: But I think we have to let them get out on a limb a little bit before- We have to be prepared.

PRESIDENT NIXON: We must volunteer all this information.

BUZHARDT: That's right.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Do you think they realize it was turned off and we don't know?

BUZHARDT: No sir. I don't think they realize. And I think, quite frankly, we're gonna have a hard time making it stick.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. That it was turned off.

BUZHARDT: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I suppose you're right.

BUZHARDT: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You said Tordella will be a pretty good witness?

BUZHARDT: Tordella will be a good witness. I think we'll be able to get witnesses out of-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, I don't think we'll have a hard time, if we just stay and speak right to it, firm and hard. We've done this before.

BUZHARDT: Right.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Course we'll have a hard time...but it's true.

HAIG: Sure. That's right. And if there was no evidence of any activity, then it wasn't true.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Has he been able to produce any evidence? Go ahead, be honest. As far as you know.

BUZHARDT: As far as I know, they've been unable to turn up...Jim Schlesinger [James Schlesinger, head of the CIA] is going through over there with a fine tooth comb to make sure they weren't involved.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, we'll see. Dean, curiously enough, probably doesn't know it was turned off. He probably only learned about it till March.

BUZHARDT: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I don't think he really knew about it. You know what I mean?

BUZHARDT: Right. (Unintelligible.)

PRESIDENT NIXON: Maybe.

HAIG: Course, where are we?

PRESIDENT NIXON: They didn't realize the importance till this year.

BUZHARDT: That's probably true.

PRESIDENT NIXON: So what's your plan then? Get to Buchanan's door, write something up?

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. I think as soon as we can get all the facts nailed down...then we start writing.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right. So and so, "For security reasons, because of this and that, the plan submitted to the President...was submitted, prove or disprove..."

BUZHARDT: You wanna lay out that it came to you with a unanimous recommendation.

PRESIDENT NIXON: "And the unanimous recommendation was dissolved, in two days, because of the recommendation of J. Edgar Hoover, the President disapproved." And put Mitchell in it too. Let him get credit for this. That it was disapproved. And it was not implemented. Period. That's what I think I'd like. Stand hard and firm on that. Let 'em squeal. They think they have more here than they have.

BUZHARDT: That's true.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think.

BUZHARDT: Well, from all the evidence we have at this point, I'm sure they think that they have more. Especially Petersen [Henry Petersen, Assistant Attorney General]. I really think Senator Ervin is sitting like the cat that swallowed the canary.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Thinks he's got a lot?

BUZHARDT: Oh, he thinks he's got-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Do we have to show it was turned off? Do you think that would be a good idea?

BUZHARDT: I'm sure they will tell him...I'm not sure they would believe us if we-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Is labor pushing us?

BUZHARDT: I don't think they'd believe us.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Lay back...

HAIG: I think let the bastards show their hand.

PRESIDENT NIXON: It shows the total irresponsibility of this committee. They could have found out that it was an operation, they were unanimously recommended, it was approved, it intimidated J. Edgar Hoover's disapproval - and the Attorney General's disapproval, give credit, it was not put into effect. Period. Doesn't that read the line, give us forty eight hours, seventy two hours, whatever it is.

HAIG: A unanimous recommendation from responsible intelligence personnel to return to practices-

PRESIDENT NIXON: -that were initiated in '67.

HAIG: By the then Attorney General.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Now who are our witnesses? Tortello would be a good witness.

BUZHARDT: Yeah. Tordella.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Tordella.

BUZHARDT: Sullivan.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sullivan.

BUZHARDT: Pat Gray was in office.

HAIG: Pat Carter [CIA Deputy Director Marshall "Pat" Carter].

BUZHARDT: Pat Carter. Nope. Carter won't know about this plan because he wasn't in it. Gayler will know.

HAIG: Bennett [Donald Bennett, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency].

BUZHARDT: Don Bennett, yeah.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (Unintelligible) They all got a telephone call from Sullivan. But Sullivan-

BUZHARDT: Yes sir. He [Sullivan] should make our best witness.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He'll do it?

BUZHARDT: He'll do it. And somebody in the agency [CIA], that we haven't located yet.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What?

BUZHARDT: Someone in the agency, we don't know who Bill Sullivan called in the agency to talk to.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sullivan turned it off with great, shall we say, disappointment, right?

BUZHARDT: Yes sir.

UNKNOWN: (Unintelligible.)

PRESIDENT NIXON: No, thank you.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Excellent job of sleuthing.

BUZHARDT: It's not really sleuthing, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh, you better put on that, uh, Mardian, what do you suggest, Buchanan and, get me, well...

BUZHARDT: I wanna get all my facts recorded, precisely. I don't want to bring them into-

HAIG: -bring in Bennett and Gayler in. Get a direct interview with them, what do you think?

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sure. Gayler's out (unintelligible), of course.

BUZHARDT: Well, Bennett's in Korea...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Bennett's in Korea.

BUZHARDT: ...they come home every so often.

PRESIDENT PRESIDENT NIXON: I think so. Let's get it nailed down. Let's knock the shit out of this one. Knock the ball right out of the park. See, this is not related any more, Fred. It isn't related to the Krogh operation. It isn't related to the other things. This is a totally different thing. Which is very important for us to bear in mind. You don't want to be unaware of everything else these bastards did.

BUZHARDT: That's true.

PRESIDENT PRESIDENT NIXON: Thank God.

end: 25:45