Smogon Election Town Hall

BPGXMG - Today at 10:20 PM
@Ditto @shubaka17 what are your views on Ubers as a tier?
My name is Ban Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Marshadow Gengar for a reason
We have AG if we really want a no-bans tier
shubaka17 - Today at 10:25 PM
the only problem with that is then that AG has no clauses either
I think that Ubers won't have a suspect or council in the traditional sense, since Ubers is intended to be over powered
BPGXMG - Today at 10:25 PM
But it's a tier now
shubaka17 - Today at 10:25 PM
but it should still be afforded the same policies that other tiers have, like clauses and representation in tournaments
BPGXMG - Today at 10:25 PM
And when there are mons that blatantly invalidate playstyles - Marshadow with HO - then something needs to be done
If the goal is to maintain some sort of competitive edge, then letting Marshadow in particular is just contradictory to that
And besides
The clauses are unnecessary because the goal is to allow the use of whatever you want - ag does that better because it still has competitive edge
So why can't we have a tier where we can use these godmons but still have balance?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:28 PM
In addition, the current council has a lot of issues
The tier leaders literally rigged a suspect
Nothing was done about it
shubaka17 - Today at 10:29 PM
I'm looking into the pokemon you pointed out to me, Pdon, Marshadow, Xerneas, Gengar
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:29 PM
youre not looking into the bigger menace than Pdon
Bdon
Bastiodon is tearing up the metagame rn
what are you gonna do bout that
BPGXMG - Today at 10:29 PM
@shubaka17 of those marshadow is the biggest problem
And still
Ubers is a tier now
Not a banlist
And therefore we should be allowed to have bans and suspects without TLs rigging it
@shubaka17 can you answer that?
shubaka17 - Today at 10:34 PM
i'm trying to find the previous ban/suspect that TLs rigged
BPGXMG - Today at 10:34 PM
The Gengar-Mega one
where ppl wanted it gone but they decided to keep it anyways
Unless you change your stance on that, I'm gonna have to go for Team Purple
Ditto - Today at 10:35 PM
I will say that 100% behind Ubers banning pokemon. It's a tier now, so we should try to bring balance to it. However, I am not informed enough to say what should be banned. That should be up to the people who play the tier
BPGXMG - Today at 10:35 PM
I'm definitely Team Purple now
Well, more questions Ig
shubaka17 - Today at 10:35 PM
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sleeptrap-is-now-banned-from-sm-ubers.3588403/
?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:35 PM
Yeah uh-huh that wasn't a suspect
Gengar-Mega suspect was just rigged
shubaka17 - Today at 10:36 PM
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sleeptrapping-in-sm-ubers-a-proposal.3587879/
it seems like Gengar-Mega was never on the block?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:36 PM
gen 6
lmao
@shubaka17 @Ditto what are your opinions on trapping abilities?
shubaka17 - Today at 10:37 PM
Trapping abilities are uncompetetive in my opinion
they allow for a pokemon to switch into one that it counters, and make sure that there's no escape, essentially ensuring that you can do nothing about it
in addition, it's just frustrating to play against. If i'm scarf'd into TBolt, arenatrap is unfun for the next five turns before dugtrio can actually kill my pokemon
Ditto - Today at 10:38 PM
I do like the direction that Gamefreak is going with Trapping abilities in nerfing them, the only problem is that we as a site have no power over in-game mechanics. I would love for a world where there was reliable counterplay to trapping, but there just isn't at the moment.
shubaka17 - Today at 10:39 PM
However, to draw this back to Ubers if i may?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:39 PM
Alright
shubaka17 - Today at 10:39 PM
Gengar-Mega is incredibly frail, and has some rather poor defensive typings considering the tier
and it no longer has Levitate when switching in, so an erstwhile EQ can still destroy it
and while i haven't playtested this, can't you switch out from the Gengar before it mega-evos to prevent getting trapped?
sure Gengar-Mega is a good revenge killer, but that's not much different from EKiller Arceus, or a setup pokemon
BPGXMG - Today at 10:41 PM
OK I'm beginning tot hink you haven't played ubers at all lmao
shubaka17 - Today at 10:41 PM
i've literally just gotten into it this past week
i'm still playing noobs on the ladder
BPGXMG - Today at 10:42 PM
As p much everyone in the community agrees, losing levitate didn't do that much to hrut it
In addition, it gets the switch in opportunities it needs when a teammate dies, or just good play lmao
Then after that you're losing a mon
Ditto - Today at 10:42 PM
I don't think it matters whether shub or myself have played Ubers specifically. Suspects will change, what is more important is our stances on the way that suspecting happens
shubaka17 - Today at 10:42 PM
again, can't you switch out before it mega-evo's?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:43 PM
then you mega then and hit the switch in hard, or double out and gain a shit ton of momentum
@shubaka17
Gengar is the lesat of the issues in my name tbh
but it's still a huge one
shubaka17 - Today at 10:44 PM
you were talking about Marshadow, yes
looking at its dex entry, it does seem incredibly borked
BPGXMG - Today at 10:45 PM
It absolutely invalidates any HO style in the metagame
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:45 PM
i just wanna say
marshadow's brief stint in ou
was hilarious
BPGXMG - Today at 10:45 PM
^^^^
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:45 PM
it wasnt balanced but
it was
hilarious
BPGXMG - Today at 10:45 PM
But it's stayed too long in Ubers now
It's time it went
It invalidates HO on its own
SW
Psyspam
all gone due to it
Now the tier is just stall
that's unhealthy af
@shubaka17 defend marshadow, go ahead
shubaka17 - Today at 10:46 PM
I'm not going to
it's incredibly powerful
the only reason it has to stay in Ubers is if they ban Marshadium Z
but it'll still be a powerful ghost type
BPGXMG - Today at 10:46 PM
No even then it needs to go
If anything
Banning Marsh Z would make things worse
as that's the only set that does jack shit to stall
Yeah it's clear you know nothing about ubers at all lmao
About UU, my true main
What are your opinions on weavile @shubaka17 @Dittod(edited)
Do you think it should be banned?
shubaka17 - Today at 10:47 PM
this is a tier i haven't been in since Gen 5
so I'm incredibly out of the loop
Ditto - Today at 10:48 PM
I am not informed enough on UU to make a compitant comment. My question to you is, do you think there is something currently wrong with the way we go about banning pokemon now or just certain pokemon that are still in these metagames?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:48 PM
Both
shubaka17 - Today at 10:48 PM
back then,, it was really freaking good, but defeated by a decent priority/even SR
BPGXMG - Today at 10:49 PM
well if you at least aren't claiming things that aren't true, then I can get over your lack of experience with uu
but your comments regarding Ubers are incredibly concerning
@shubaka17 @Ditto Would you be open to banning Pdon, Kyogre (not just primal), Xerneas, Marshadow, Gengar-Mega and Ghostceus from Ubers?
Ditto - Today at 10:51 PM
@BPGXMG What do you think Smogon could do to fix our suspect testing?
shubaka17 - Today at 10:51 PM
call me inexperienced, call me dumb, go for it
don't call me a liar though
BPGXMG - Today at 10:51 PM
@Ditto I don't know tbh, but there's a huge circlejerk mentality with it all
@shubaka17 it's not that
it's that
it loks as though you're contradicting the community consensus that's been made by the vast majority of super experienced players. I"m not as experienced as them myself but by playing on the ladder I was able to figure it out. IDK why you digress. Gengar-Mega isn't that hard to get into play and once it's in it will murder shit. IMO it's overrated but Shadow Tag itself is uncompetitive imo. Marshadow invalidates HO. You know what Pdon and Xerneas do.
Ditto - Today at 10:52 PM
I would definitely not ban them all at once. I do think we need to go through proper testing with them. But if through that, all of them were banned I would be a bit upset, but would support the decisions.
BPGXMG - Today at 10:52 PM
Not all at once, no
shubaka17 - Today at 10:52 PM
I don't even know what HO is
BPGXMG - Today at 10:53 PM
Hyper Offense
Granny Pie - Today at 10:53 PM
Hyper offense
BPGXMG - Today at 10:53 PM
yeah, that's a p common term for a common playstyle... (insert thot/ho joke here)
viper - Today at 10:53 PM
I think as a person who plays ubers pdon and xern ban are only things to be considered
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:53 PM
HO is what your mother is
oooooooooooooooo
BPGXMG - Today at 10:54 PM
Rude
@viper why so?
Marshadow literally invalidates HO
viper - Today at 10:54 PM
That dont mean anythkng
Tho
When you consider banning mons
If a style is ban thats how the meta works for that set time
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:55 PM
why is ho even rewarding anyway
you just hope for a good matchup
Ditto - Today at 10:55 PM
Does anyone have any other questions? About policies or maybe even my new proposed tournament?
viper - Today at 10:55 PM
Marsh is only  very good vs marsh
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:55 PM
and just attack
BPGXMG - Today at 10:55 PM
A tier should allow for each playstyle to thrive
viper - Today at 10:55 PM
Ditto how will you handle the pu communit ly
BPGXMG - Today at 10:55 PM
Marshadow promotes a stally meta
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:55 PM
thats not true at all
shubaka17 - Today at 10:55 PM
Ditto, i have a question for your proposed tournament
viper - Today at 10:55 PM
They have just been removed from grand slam
And arent a core metagame
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:55 PM
some metas cant support every kind of team playstyle and thats ok
BPGXMG - Today at 10:56 PM
Yeah guys, would you make PU a core metagame again? And would you make ZU official
shubaka17 - Today at 10:56 PM
how would you make a Battle Frontier format work, when we don't even have enough volunteers for C&C?
BPGXMG - Today at 10:56 PM
@DaLetterEl the thing is though, it causes the meta to shift aroudn stall single-handedly
That's not healthy
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:56 PM
im not saying stall is healthy
shubaka17 - Today at 10:56 PM
I would make PU a core metagame, in part due to favoritism (it's one of my favorite tiers) and ZU isn't a tier i have ever heard of, i swear you make these things up
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:56 PM
im saying that an argument based solely around inclusion of HO isnt a good reason to ban or not ban
BPGXMG - Today at 10:56 PM
@shubaka17 it's not a made up thing, they have an official discord but they operate onsmaller side servers
@DaLetterEl it's also how marshadow promotes a stally meta
shubaka17 - Today at 10:57 PM
what does the Z even stand for?
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:57 PM
zumb
a
Ditto - Today at 10:57 PM
shub, that is a horrible line to draw. That's like saying "How would you propose going about the NFL when we don't have enough scientists?" C&C and Tournaments have no real correlation
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:57 PM
no idk
ive never heard of this
viper - Today at 10:57 PM
Ditto
Ditto - Today at 10:57 PM
They draw completely different people
viper - Today at 10:57 PM
Can you answer my pu question
Ditto - Today at 10:57 PM
Sorry, I was asked 2 questions at once
viper - Today at 10:57 PM
All good
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:58 PM
i like how two people who play more mafia than pokemon got made the presidential candidates and now have to answer all these pokemon questions
it's super popcorn
BPGXMG - Today at 10:58 PM
IKR
Especially when @shubaka17 can't refute my marshadow points
Granny Pie - Today at 10:58 PM
I disagree.  There are going to be S-Ranked mons in every single metagame.  They shape and define play by existing, just like Landorus in OU.
I agree with  @BPGXMG in the statement that Ubers might benefit from suspect testing, but I would personally not vote any of these mons off, as a player since Gen 4.
Marshadow does not invalidate HO.  It has counters, and ways to play around it.  Just as many mons now carry HP Ice to hit Lando in OU, I personally have seen several things rise in usage, especially the use of Choice Scarf to combat Marshadow.
Marshadow invalidates nothing, and if it promotes a stall-y meta, so be it.  The metagame adapts, just as it has for 15 years.
BPGXMG - Today at 10:58 PM
lmao
wait
shubaka17 - Today at 10:58 PM
that's because i literally haven't played against a Marshadow in my entire Ubers week
BPGXMG - Today at 10:59 PM
that
shubaka17 - Today at 10:59 PM
also, say hello to @Granny Pie , my Vice Presidential Candidate
BPGXMG - Today at 10:59 PM
is concerning
What
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:59 PM
g r a n n y
BPGXMG - Today at 10:59 PM
I'm stuck as a fucking independent becuase ppl aren't changing my role to Purple team
Granny Pie - Today at 10:59 PM
:wave:
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:59 PM
green ticket has gotten strong af
viper - Today at 10:59 PM
Shub what is your policy on tournament band
BPGXMG - Today at 10:59 PM
I'd be the most vocal VP option Purple has
viper - Today at 10:59 PM
Bans
How severe of a punishment does ghosting get
Or leaking
DaLetterEl - Today at 10:59 PM
bpg you arent an o f f i c i a l purple team member
there was
a signup period
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:00 PM
all you can do now
BPGXMG - Today at 11:00 PM
Becuse @DTC refuses to change my role hmph
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:00 PM
is vote a color
Ditto - Today at 11:00 PM
As for PU, I do think there is still a stigma behind it for most players. It's seen as a OM to some. I think keeping it as part of the Official Circuit would be good, but maybe Grand Slam isn't the best fit for them at the moment. One problem we have is a huge influx of metagames, especially with people trying to keep older generations alive.
It dilutes the tournament relativity and representation
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:00 PM
u rite there are
so many metas
shubaka17 - Today at 11:00 PM
Tournament bans are up to the will of Tournament Officials. in Official Tournaments, the tournament should keep with the Official Ban tier throughout, and keep the ban list from the start of the tournament, even if there is a suspect test in the middle of it
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:00 PM
ngl
its super overwhelming being me and being like
viper - Today at 11:00 PM
I mean player band shub
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:01 PM
half interested in playing mons again
viper - Today at 11:01 PM
Like if some1 ghosts or leaks
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:01 PM
but having no idea
what tier to play
Granny Pie - Today at 11:01 PM
I'm sorry that we disagree,  @BPGXMG.  But such disagreements are what suspect testing is for.
Let us look past our ideas of the metagame, and work towards building a better way to shape it, in whatever image the community may desire.
viper - Today at 11:01 PM
Do you leave that to the tds?
BPGXMG - Today at 11:01 PM
@shubaka17 @Ditto what is your opinion on old gen restrospective bans (like banning snorlax in GSC)
DaLetterEl - Today at 11:01 PM
and having people in every ear saying their meta best meta
shubaka17 - Today at 11:01 PM
that's disciplinary action on the part of the moderators
BPGXMG - Today at 11:01 PM
@Granny Pie is the hero of the ppl
I'm still voting for team purple
but Granny Pie coulld def change my mind
shubaka17 - Today at 11:02 PM
Old Tiers should be allowed to evolve even after they are closed. Playstyles evolve, and so should bans in response to that
DTC - Today at 11:02 PM
hey i gotta go
BPGXMG - Today at 11:02 PM
Green team just gets better and better
Ditto - Today at 11:02 PM
@BPGXMG I don't think that old gens are necessarily perfect in their current state and if we want to keep playing them in current official tournaments, they should be treated the same way as any other official metagame
DTC - Today at 11:02 PM
but someone post a pastebin of this in the thread please
shubaka17 - Today at 11:02 PM
you got it