Christian discussion points

My name is mdthr/Muddaththir ; I converted/reverted to Islam about 7 years ago, along with my girlfriend (we went on to marry). We live in Central Florida, USA 😄
I'm not telling you this so that you have to divulge anything, I just wanted you to know who it is that you're talking to
My parents met @ church and got married after a few weeks of dating. I'm the youngest of 3, we were raised Christian, in Christian private schools etc.
did stuff like summer school at church, and stuff like Royal Rangers
ultimately I became a nihilist. both my brother and I were atheists. I hid it from my family until I became Muslim 😛
obviously I stopped being a nihilist when I became a Muslim
I never knew anything about Islam or met a Muslim until college, lol
I'm hoping to understand your knowledge of the Bible & Christianity. What do you think a Jew would answer (filling in the blanks) for these two?
1) "The Lord, Our God, is –."
2) "There is no remission of sins without – – – –."

I'll do the first one, since it's well known: "The Lord, Our God, is One."
mdthr — 10/28/2022 7:23 PM
I spotted a hijabi at college & kinda chased her down (not quick, just followed after her) and asked here where do I go to talk to people lol
mdthr — 10/28/2022 7:24 PM
Yes, the understanding of the Torah is that "There is no remission of sins without repentance of the sinner."
that is, "Repentance atones for all sins."

Micah 7:19
He shall again have compassion on us; He will subdue and tread underfoot our wickedness [destroying sin’s power]. Yes, You will cast all our sins Into the depths of the sea.
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We have the same essential teaching in Islam; that teaching is known colloquially as "Original Forgiveness".
All sins are branches of a tree. What tree is this? It is known as "Shirk", or "polytheism".

So, we who want to be pious and successful, want to uproot this tree & wipe away its remnants, its branches.
What removes the branches (sins)? Seeking forgiveness.
What removes the roots (shirk)? Pure monotheism (known as 'Tawhid'); wherein religion is made sincerely for God Almighty alone.

This was the lesson given to Adam and Eve.
Adam was intended to be placed on earth as successive authority prior to his creation. Laid out for humanity was an admonition against the Adversary and against the worst of sins & what leads to sinning – shirk – and they were bestowed Original Forgiveness (the mistake of eating from a tree was simply a mistake — which they repented for, and were forgiven), an understanding of repentance & a clear path to guidance for guaranteed success in this life and in the eternal hereafter.
We die because life & death were created as a test for us — our eternal abode is in the Hereafter, wherein we will be among those that either fill Paradise or fill the Hellfire.
We were meant for somewhere else, just as Adam and Eve were meant to learn about repentance and meant to receive guidance.

Our dying is not a purposeless happening, or consequence outside of our control — but intended with great purpose, and each is held accountable according to their own deeds.
[Qur'an 7:19-23]
 ˹God Almighty said,˺ "And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zâlimûn (unjust and wrong-doers)."
  Then Shaitân (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save that you should become angels or become of the immortals."
  And he [Shaitân (Satan)] swore by God Almighty to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."
  So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitân (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"
They replied, “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, we will certainly be losers.”

God Almighty will forgive every sin, but the sin that will enter one into Hellfire eternally if they die upon it (without repenting for it) is polytheism / shirk.
I know said you are looking to learn about Islam, but here's the thing about that: So am I.

Seeking knowledge is an obligation upon every Muslim; young & old, married & unmarried, illiterate & scholar — from the cradle, to the grave.

If you want to know the truth, act by the truth, and stay upon the truth — it is in complete and voluntary submission to the source of supreme guidance: God Almighty, the One Who everything is in need of, but Who is free of needs; Who is not a reality to be explained, but the explanation of reality.

God Almighty did not abandon us or leave us neglected; He sent us Guidance and Revelation and His Prophet ﷺ. We will never attain all that there is to know about His Religion, and to become Muslim does not require except a small amount of understanding.
The Religion itself is easy, and faith is based on knowledge & certainty.

To sum up, our Religion, Islam, is the Religion of purity and cleanliness;
the Religion of the best standards of behaviour and the noblest of manners.
Islam stresses and clarifies whatever issues believers may need, and whatever principles that may rectify their lives.

There is nothing that benefits unless it is stated, stressed and enjoined in Islam;
so praise be to God for all His graces.
There is nothing that harms unless it is stated, forbidden and warned against in Islam;
so be mindful of Him and do not transgress.
There is nothing that remains to bring you closer to Paradise, and further you from the Hellfire, but that is made clear in Islam;
so know well that there is none worthy of worship except God.

We invoke God the Most High, to make us steadfast in establishing and observing this great religion,
grasping its rulings, abiding by its teachings, faithfully, sincerely and devoutly; so that God may accept our good deeds.
mdthr — 10/28/2022 7:35 PM
They handled it well, but they mostly don't want anything to do with it and don't want to talk to me about Islam.
But I've had other friends who their families have accepted Islam shortly after them.
Given that you understand God's Forgiveness is made directly available from Him, and that He forgives all sins, this puts me into a bit of a predicament regarding your Christian belief that I wanted to ask about.
How is it that we should reject the forgiveness that the Mighty Forgiver makes directly available to us, and instead, begin to accept the idea that He is in need of a sacrifice to forgive us?
Do you not see this as a blatantly failed attempt at providing a solution to a problem which does not exist?
Then why should anyone need the Messiah tortured & crucified for them ? How is it that you would invite to that which we have no knowledge of, while we know the Mighty Forgiver ?
Consider that "god" means "an object of worship"; this is the understanding of the Arabic word "ilaha"; and so our foundation in Islam begins with "la ilaha ill'Allah"; that "there is none worthy of worship except Allah".

"Allah" having meaning of "the only One deserving of worship"
The description of polytheism, given by God Almighty, includes the worship of the Messiah, especially that of the Trinitarian varieties.
That is because a Trinitarian worships many things other than God.
Polytheism, especially such as Trinitarianism, is a cruel and deceptive tactic to distract from love, hope and fear of the incomparable, Eternal Creator.
Monotheism is utmost as it offers to us ONE OBJECT of worship, of supreme adoration and love, hope & fear; One Originator, the Source of Good and Peace, in Whom all powers and affections are directed; making religion SOLELY unto Whom Whose Nature pervades our thoughts and actions.
Is it possible to not be distracted from Him when dividing your worship? Such as to the Messiah?
Consider how often you think of, or even so far have mentioned, the Holy Spirit
Apprehension towards distraction from the worship of Him is part of true piety; should you not withhold from that division & give the Jealous Almighty His due—total, complete, undivided portion— of your submission unto Him?


There is certainly no need for the Messiah to be crucified or killed for our sins. Indeed, the Almighty honoured His beloved Servant, the Son of Mary; the Messiah was not killed nor was he crucified, but God Almighty raised him up alive to Himself.
Well so then, how is it that you as a Christian have accepted saying that "the Son is God" and "the Spirit is God"?
By that I mean:
1) what justification do you have for affirming these propositions, and
2) what do you mean when you say "is God"? I am not talking about "God", but I am talking about "is".
What do you mean by this word "is"?
In English, we have two basic types of "is". The "is of predication" and the "is of identity".
Which "is" is it?
As I understand, it is either the first "is" or the second "is"; if neither, then you're just affirming a word that has no rationally conceivable or communicable identity for its meaning, and at that point, I really have no idea what it is that you're trying to say.
Not to be crude, but it would have as much meaning that you would decide to attribute to the statement "the Son fkjsndgkfjns God" or the statement "the Spirit jdnskljgns God"
😬
the "is of identity" is like what is used when we say something like
"Bruce Wayne is Batman"
it's reflexive to both
meaning "Batman is Bruce Wayne"
the "is of predication" is not reflexive to both; meaning, "Nathaniel is handsome" does not apply as "handsome is Nathaniel" (that everything meant by "handsome" means "Nathaniel")
the reason that this is a problem for you, is that this is a heresy known as the heresy of modalism
like how Clark Kent takes his glasses off and becomes Superman
modalism believes God "switches modes" between the persons of the Trinity
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Coherent? Sure, it's the most coherent of the choices if you're insisting on affirming the Trinity
but it's still a heresy
meaning, most Christians would say that you are not a Christian.
Well, in Islam, we affirm of God Almighty what He affirms of Himself and what His Prophet ﷺ affirms of Him. He did not leave us confused on these matters, especially not on what is critical and essential for our salvation and eternal reckoning.
The simplest affirmation of "God is One." is just that. You can't have "Three" too.
The only scriptural mention of the Trinity is in the final revelation: the Holy Qur'an. Therein, God Almighty warns Christians to desist from this, to not say it, as it is their own invention.
We know about the Messiah by a clear revelation from God Almighty.
Consider how it is that you would have a reliable source of information about Noah, or Abraham, peace and blessings be upon them, if you were alive in the time of Moses and following him.
The best and most reliable source of information about those previous Messengers at that time would be from God Almighty's revelation to you then: the Torah revealed to the Prophet Moses, peace and blessings be upon him.
Today, God Almighty calls us to the final revelation, which is sent unto all humankind. As such, it is preserved by Him; word for word, letter for letter, to the very style and rhythm and accentuation of the pronunciation during recitation.
That revelation is the Qur'an, given to the final Prophet, Muhammad ﷺ. The Messiah prophecised of the Spirit of Truth to guide us into all truth, Muhammad ﷺ , as another Comforter to come after him.
As such, the best evidence and best proofs for the life and mission of all of the previous messengers, including the Messiah, is in the life of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ and the Revelation that God Almighty sent down to him.
So, if you believe God is One, JUST ONE, like described in the Bible and described in the Qur'an — that there is nothing like unto Him and He is not like unto anything, He has no equal, no comparison, no partners, no spouse, no roommates, no cousins, no sisters or brothers
then that is the same belief of all of the Messengers that God Almighty sent. That is the Muslim belief.
To every nation He sent warners, teaching the same essential message:
[7:59] “O my people! Worship God. You have no other god but Him.”
It's that simple.
That is the very essence of Islam, the meaning of "Islam" being "complete submission to the Will of God Almighty"
that means with the heart, with the mind & intellect, with the limbs and speech; faith, in Islam, is an expression of the entire being.
Faith in Islam is not a blind belief without rationality; rather, its reality entails sincere affirmation of that rationality and basis from which belief springs forth.
As an ideal of revelation, certainty of faith does not arise as an expression of the whole individual except with voluntary submission, and the necessity of its reasoning & intellect in the attaining of understanding.
Such faith is without doubt, and with no intellectual justification in abandoning; we are faced with the choice of surrendering to the Truth, or being in denial of the empirically evident.
Truly, God Almighty says in [Qur’ān 47:14]:
     “Can those ˹believers˺ who stand on clear proof from their Lord be like those whose evil deeds are made appealing to them and ˹only˺ follow their desires?”