Liquid`Drone

The main problem is that they're not allowing match picking at the moment. I think once they do, random isn't gonna be a big thing anymore. Also, the disadvantage from having to learn every matchup is genuinely bigger than the advantage you get from randoming.


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Espers

Some people are already talking about this, but race-picking has always been a part of BW and with the new ladder it's not a thing anymore. Historically mirrors have always been the least liked/played matchups.

What do you think of implementing an option to choose another mu rather than the mirror? I personally would enjoy ladder so much more if I could just play TvZ rather than ZvZ.

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Playa

Please, god. But with all of the bugs they have... I always assume it's impossible to program anything.

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Lopata

it is pretty frustrating to play so many zvz's and give so many freewins after 15 years of tvz'ing...

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Avi-love

I think the best solution would be to have a chosen main race, and then have the option to choose a different race for the mirror. That way, if you are matched against a random, your "main race" is picked, and there won't be any conflict (although this way you can technically still get a mirror when you play against random, it is still infinitely better than the system currently in place).

The lack of MU picking and the removal of the 2 minute leave rule are to me personally the biggest issues currently in sc:r. (Currently, if you get matched against someone with severe lag, you are forced to play them, which is a complete pain in the ass).

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ROOTFayth

I think they should allow people to pick a race and then pick a different race for the mirror match up of said race, would be great, I personally play PvP but It's quite a bit more boring than TvP or ZvP

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onlystar

this please..

if would encounter mirrors mu in 1v1 i will quit that game when it starts i do not wish to play mirror and nobody can force me to do so..

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CruiseR

i'm with race pickers here. I played BW for very long and I was Terran with PvT.
Right now I played like 15 ladder games, and on my current MMR I am beating P's and Z's with ease, while getting destroyed in TvT - a matchup which I tried to learn dozens of times in BW primetime, unsuccessfully. Not fun.

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FyRe_DragOn

Ive always played ZvP PvZ PvT, now I cant play zvp anymore, which is incidentally my favorite matchup. The ladder isnt an accurate portrayal of skill If i have to play an off matchup, I would really like it if this could be changed. Its not that I hate pvp or mirrors, I just like zvp a lot more and am a lot better at it.

My suggestion is that we should be able to select from our matchups as we currently do from maps, vetoing ones that we dont want to play until there are 3 left. When searching for opponents it would prioritize these matchups as it does maps, and you should also be able to select if you want this to be a hard veto, and same with the maps but thats another discussion. If im up against another racepicker with similar matchups, it will randomize ZvP or PvZ. If im up against someone who selected for example TvT, PvP and ZvZ, then I just wont be matched against them, same situation as if they had picked all the maps that I have vetoed.

Also, Im glad blizzard got rid of the leaving b4 2mins = no loss thing. People who proxy or 4pool and then leave when it gets scouted before 2mins are pathetic, as are people who will just quit if they get an unfavorable matchup or opponent.

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EndingLife

I'm with Dragon here. I also play ZvP instead of PvP about half of the time. I play for fun and playing PvP every time I play against a Protoss player isn't fun for me.

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Morbidius

I dodge most of my TvTs but in the end all it does is make me stomp worse zergs and protosses, not fun for anyone.

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rauk

i support racepicking mirrors on ladder, it's what every ladder system for the last 20 years of bw has let you do and i don't see any compelling reason to change it now

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arb

I'd say let you maybe decide your matchups but you can only change one, so TvZ TvP PvT or whatever.
Only been one well known player who played ZvP TvZ PvT anyway im pretty sure

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ortseam

1. No one is discussing not playing against a race, just being able to avoid the mirror. E.g. You will still play against zerg, but play Terran yourself, instead your "main" Z race. Still playing against all 3 races.

2. In the case of two racepickers of the same race , coinflip would be a good solution. Both players won't mind playing either side of the matchup anyway. There won't be that many cases though, and even if there were, players would get each race around 50% of the time making it fair for everyone

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Avi-love

Savior played TvZ vs Gorush in MSL, and no foreign tournament has ever disallowed racepicking, people are just making stuff up, unfortunately.

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RowdierBob

I think it does. There is a strong culture of race picking in the BW community that dates back to the very early days. It's an important part of the game for many people that now won't be available in the new ladder.

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Liquid Jinro

>> can you show me any pro foreign or korean who racepicked anything other than mirror? maybe testie and some random pros in 1999?

Very easy - PJ until he went to SKT and switched to P only... can't quite recall if he played PvT PvP TvZ or PvT ZvP TvZ?
Protoss players picking TvZ or ZvP were not that rare at all... I think Trek also did something like that.

That being said, it should definitely be allowed. There is no reasonable argument for why it would be difficult to have a

PvZ, PvT, PvR, TvP

 matchup selection option, and anytime you run into matchup conflict you default both to their vs random race. There's nothing preventing you from picking TvZ over ZvZ in most tournaments, so why it's somehow less 'pure' is beyond me

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GTR

Other racepickers from the top of my head: Slayer, ggon, Infinity.

Also KeSPA had a rule where if you wanted to change race for a match you had to give a weeks notice (Savior vs Gorush in 2007)

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Carnations

Team coaches banned it. You could still race pick but had to give notice of one week prior to your games.

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elKa-ThE-FeArEd

Wait they removed the 2min rule??
I agree totally with switching race, nothings more boring than mirror mu's.
If they won't add any option to switch race i will just stick to random i guess

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FlashFTW

There is literally no argument to say why Race picking cannot be implemented. It was there for iccup and fish which most of us have played already. "forcing someone to learn the mirror" is a shitty argument. Someone doesn't want to learn the mirror, that's their choice. In tournaments, unless the rules are banning race picking, people can choose their race in a custom lobby.

As for laddering concerns, it literally would not lengthen ladder queues at all. Say I have TvP/Z and PvT. Someone else has PvT/Z and TvP. Great, our main races are Terran and Protoss respectively, I would be T, they would be P. Simple.

What if two TvZ/P and PvT players were matched with each other? Who would play Terran and who would play Protoss, seeing as how both are Terran mains with Protoss race picked? 50/50 coin flip. The system checks who race picked what, sees that their mains are both Terran and both opt for the PvT pick, and flips a coin to see who ladders as the Terran and Protoss. Simple, literally .1 second of computer computation to make the decision and place each as their respective race.

To those people who will complain they won't play anymore mirrors and that mirrors are their best matchup, bro, what percentage of players actually dodge the mirror by race picking? Well under 50%. Considering the poll on page one, if we go by those statistics, 1/6 players race pick. That's hardly that many players who you can't play a mirror with.

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LRM)TechnicS

I just want to have the option to play pvz or tvz ranked games when I want to. I spent quite some time pvping to get a pvz and it seems not worth the 'trade-off'. Also random/playing random is completely fine.

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quirinus

Yeah, I enjoy TvZ more too, that's another reason. I know you can minimize the bo randomness in ZvZ with micro and other things (I was exaggerating a bit on purpose, Baku ), but I just don't like my game to depend completely on micro and 1 timing allin.

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Incomplete..ReV

I have to say I agree with the people who wants to avoid mirrors. Even though I personally don't feel a need for it at all, there's no going around that it was a part of BW throughout pretty much all history. The solution suggested in here seems quite clever. Might be a bit hard for Blizzard to actually make happen, but it sounds quite neat if it was possible.

It's not just about the MMR - or even at all, for that matter. There's the balance between the joy of improving, and the joy of the match ups. And there's no going around that the mirrors are by far the most boring ones.

There truly is no good reason to prevent people from choosing match ups/dodging mirrors. The only problem as far as I can see, is whether or not the game get's enough recources/attention from Blizzard to actually implement it.

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Liquid Jinro

I very strongly think you should be able to race pick completely freely. The game is balanced enough that there's not much of a competitive advantage to doing that (realistically there's none because you have to play several different races), and in nearly 20 years of BW the people who've race picked are far outnumbered by those who did not.