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  1. Never tell your password to anyone.
  2. Friday, October 05, 2012
  3. 5:04 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: im here
  4. 5:04 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: hello
  5. 5:04 PM - Tyrant Mouf: hi
  6. 5:05 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: ok so i guess i will start.
  7. 5:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: sure
  8. 5:05 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i don't think there is any room for argument that tyrant and i do the absolute most on the site
  9. 5:05 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the mod logs alone prove that.
  10. 5:06 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: but even with as much as we do
  11. 5:06 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: this site is slowly falling appart.
  12. 5:06 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: every other admin has done almost no work in over a week
  13. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: 2 meetings were scheduled this week
  14. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: both were missed by people without warning or communication of any sort
  15. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we even discussed site communication at the meeting
  16. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which i spoke individually to all admins who missed the meeting
  17. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: made sure they were caught up on what happened at that meeting
  18. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: everyone agreed they were caught up and read the logs
  19. 5:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and yet
  20. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the second meeting was missed by everyone
  21. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: despite me pming every person individually
  22. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and them telling me they would be there
  23. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no one posted their logo top 5 like was requested in the meeting post
  24. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: nothing.
  25. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: this site has 0 communication
  26. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: period
  27. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we have tried to fix it
  28. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we have talked about it in meetings
  29. 5:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and nothing gets fixed or gets done.
  30. 5:09 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: so frankly the only solution tyrant and i can see to this
  31. 5:09 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: is either we get more solo decisionmaking power
  32. 5:09 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: so we dont have to keep asking all the admins for permission to do the things we need to do
  33. 5:09 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: since no one shows up for the discussions we pre plan to try to get answers
  34. 5:09 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: or we will both be taking our leave from the site
  35. 5:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Indeed.
  36. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: this has reached a level of frustration that is absolutely unacceptable and neither of us can deal with it any more.
  37. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we discuss almost everything with each other anyways
  38. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we work together very well
  39. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: but trying to round everyone up
  40. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to vote on every decision
  41. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and no one showing up
  42. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: just delays our progress
  43. 5:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: for absolurely no reason.
  44. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: BUT
  45. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we do not believe
  46. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: every admin
  47. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: deserves the same solo decisionmaking power
  48. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we dont think its something that should go to all admins accross the board
  49. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: only ones that have proven their worth
  50. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: like he and i have.
  51. 5:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you can deal with that by either making us head admins
  52. 5:12 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: or having a meeting and announcing we will be granted that power
  53. 5:12 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i dont know how you prefer to do it
  54. 5:12 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: but it needs to happen and it needs to happen asap.
  55. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok, first of all, define decision making power
  56. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause you all got ur decision making power already
  57. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: leon
  58. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we had to have a meeting
  59. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to decide
  60. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but tell me exactly what ur looking for
  61. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to delete 2 trash subforums
  62. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which were obviously stupid
  63. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: lol dana
  64. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we had to have a 15 minute discussion about it
  65. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that shouldnt need to happen.
  66. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u dont need a meeting for that
  67. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we also have to run all our decisions
  68. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: about the mods
  69. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: by all the other admins
  70. 5:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which is stupid
  71. 5:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: when i saw the logs, i thought it was stupid
  72. 5:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because the other admin know nothing about it
  73. 5:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: they dont read the rules me and tyrant stay up until 3 am to make
  74. 5:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: they dont have any experience with the mods
  75. 5:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: only decision about the mod is how many we are adding
  76. 5:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and who they are.
  77. 5:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: not really
  78. 5:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and who to fire and who to hire.
  79. 5:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats up to you
  80. 5:14 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Not so.
  81. 5:15 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You said yourself when I was trying to hire mods that it was your decision.
  82. 5:15 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: also the whole choco firing thing
  83. 5:15 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i didnt said a word about the 2 trial mods, and when i talked to you thought empathy had the same hours as ari and all of us, then i figured out that he actually had the perfect hours for us
  84. 5:16 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: honestly, it was stupid we even had to discuss that with aces to be honest
  85. 5:16 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: he had no idea what was going on
  86. 5:16 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: choco firing was literally YOUR (both of you) decision
  87. 5:16 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the entire situation had to be brought to his attention
  88. 5:16 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no
  89. 5:16 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i just said... ok
  90. 5:16 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it included aces!
  91. 5:16 PM - Tyrant Mouf: When I picked the trial mods, you approached me yourself Leon
  92. 5:16 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: aces?... aces said the same i said
  93. 5:16 PM - Tyrant Mouf: after you returned from your trip
  94. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: To ask me why I went ahead
  95. 5:17 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ya, i did, cause you guys were adding ppl like crazy tyrant
  96. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: and picked mods without letting you know
  97. 5:17 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and we needed to discuss how many ppl we needed to ad
  98. 5:17 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: add
  99. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We added 2 people Leon
  100. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: 2 people
  101. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: The plans were different, yes
  102. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: but aat the end of the day
  103. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: it would be 3 people picked
  104. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: then I had it lowered to two
  105. 5:17 PM - Tyrant Mouf: per your request
  106. 5:18 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ya
  107. 5:18 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: number of mods added
  108. 5:18 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: only that
  109. 5:18 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: if we are the ones who have to do all the work leon
  110. 5:18 PM - Tyrant Mouf: But you didn't come to me to hear the original plan first
  111. 5:18 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: shouldnt we be the ones who decide
  112. 5:18 PM - Tyrant Mouf: you heard it elsewhere
  113. 5:18 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how much help we need?
  114. 5:18 PM - Tyrant Mouf: without asking me what it was
  115. 5:18 PM - Tyrant Mouf: even though I created the plan with aces
  116. 5:18 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: at the end of the day should that not be our decision?
  117. 5:19 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: let me answer one question and them move to the other one
  118. 5:19 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: tyrant first
  119. 5:19 PM - Tyrant Mouf: The plan was to go over the apps, sort it down to 5 trial mods, and from those 5, 3 are chosen perma
  120. 5:19 PM - Tyrant Mouf: This was before the change you requested
  121. 5:19 PM - Tyrant Mouf: when you came to me though, you had already heard the plan who knows where
  122. 5:19 PM - Tyrant Mouf: and assumed we were hiring 5 mods
  123. 5:20 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: when you guys did that, we had a complete chaos going on... we needed to discuss how many mods we are getting, and also we needed the list i made, we cant just add more ppl into the bucket
  124. 5:20 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so yeah, i approached you and told you that u needed to discuss that with me
  125. 5:21 PM - Tyrant Mouf: I tried to, but you were on vacation remember?
  126. 5:21 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and you still need, if you gonna add another trial mod, i wouldnt care
  127. 5:21 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: BUT
  128. 5:21 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: if u wanna add another MOD
  129. 5:21 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ya
  130. 5:21 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u need to ask me
  131. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: ok
  132. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: so that takes us to my question
  133. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: why should we need to ask you
  134. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: tyrant and i are the only ones
  135. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: who are modding the site
  136. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we do all the work
  137. 5:21 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: scarness never touches his sections
  138. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: aces barely had time this week to touch any of his
  139. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: why would that decision be anyone but mine and tyrants
  140. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: if we know how muchindividual work it akes
  141. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and therefore how much help is needed.
  142. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: why would that decision be in your hands if you do absolurely no moderating
  143. 5:22 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and therefore have no idea how much is actually needed to run the site efficiently
  144. 5:23 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it is already our responsibility to supervise them and train them.
  145. 5:23 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You're the owner and all, but you haven't taken the time to meet the mods, interview them, go through each section of the app with them
  146. 5:23 PM - Tyrant Mouf: get proofs
  147. 5:23 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how can we do that properly without the authority to hire and fire them as well as needed.
  148. 5:23 PM - Tyrant Mouf: this is the kind of work wuvs and I do regularly
  149. 5:23 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: by regularly he means at minimum daily. if not hourly he and i speak
  150. 5:24 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and communicate
  151. 5:24 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: about anything and everything that we see that needs fixing
  152. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We literally spent hours on end creating the rules and responsibilities, going over them with each other, suggesting edits, implementing changes
  153. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: then once posted
  154. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: gathering feedback from mods
  155. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: and making changes even after
  156. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We do that Leon
  157. 5:24 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Not you.
  158. 5:24 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: literally
  159. 5:24 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we stayed up until 3 am
  160. 5:24 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: making the rules
  161. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: editing them writing and rewriting
  162. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: then
  163. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we gave it to the mods
  164. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: made sure they read them
  165. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: got their feedback
  166. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: discussed that feedback with each other
  167. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: then reread and edited.
  168. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and re sent it to the mods
  169. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: for more feedback
  170. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that all happened
  171. 5:25 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: within a 24 hour window
  172. 5:25 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i know, u linked me those rules dana
  173. 5:25 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: let me finish with your questions
  174. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: everyone has their jobs dana, right now we need the mods to start working, so you guys can stick to your job only... both of you already have enough decision power, i cant see the problem here... you can hire and fire ppl like i already told you, but about how many ppl we are adding, well, thats another story
  175. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: we agreed 2 ppl
  176. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: if u wanna get both of them fired
  177. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: do it
  178. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and get another 2
  179. 5:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: sure
  180. 5:28 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but the number of mods, is something WE need to discuss
  181. 5:28 PM - Tyrant Mouf: This isn't what we understood though Leon. From what we got from you
  182. 5:28 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Aces and I were under the impression you made the final say.
  183. 5:28 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: as was i
  184. 5:28 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: about the number... yes
  185. 5:28 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Or at the very least that it should be run by everyone
  186. 5:28 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that we had to run these decisions by you.
  187. 5:28 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and get your ok
  188. 5:28 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: before making them
  189. 5:28 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: not really,
  190. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that is what you told all of us.
  191. 5:29 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i literally laughed when i saw the logs about the prefix thing LOOL
  192. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the convo about choco
  193. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: with aces
  194. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: took 20 minutes
  195. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: a convo
  196. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that should never needed to include him
  197. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because he had 0 idea what was going on
  198. 5:29 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: nah
  199. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we should not have had to contact him about that
  200. 5:29 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: or scarness
  201. 5:29 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: how much time took that convo with me dana?
  202. 5:29 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 1 min?
  203. 5:30 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: maybe 2
  204. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it shouldnt need to be had with you leon.
  205. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: if tyrant and i are the ones with all the information
  206. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it shouldnt even need to be discussed with you
  207. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we should tell you our decision
  208. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to keep you in the loop
  209. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and thats it
  210. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we shouldnt need to ask permission to do it
  211. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that is the difference.
  212. 5:30 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats what im trying to tell you... if u come to me, and all i say its ok...
  213. 5:30 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats stupid
  214. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: yeah it is stupid.
  215. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you trust us to make the decisions
  216. 5:31 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we should tell you our decision
  217. 5:30 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to keep you in the loop
  218. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: but we still need to ask permission
  219. 5:31 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: basically
  220. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: tot ake actions
  221. 5:31 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: that was the convo with choco
  222. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: on that decision we make
  223. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the number of mods we decide we need
  224. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: is the exact same thing.
  225. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it should be in our hands to decide
  226. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are the ones
  227. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: most aware
  228. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: of what this site needs
  229. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: in terms of people working
  230. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and how many mods we need.
  231. 5:31 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: so the logic is the same.
  232. 5:32 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: sorry dana, those things would need to be discussed
  233. 5:32 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: then give us a reason why,
  234. 5:32 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you have no idea what it takes to mod this site
  235. 5:32 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because you dont do it
  236. 5:32 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: why would you need to be included in that discussion
  237. 5:32 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: if you dont have the information you need to be in that discussion?
  238. 5:33 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause im basically the head admin and owner dana
  239. 5:33 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i need to make those decisions
  240. 5:33 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you dont need to make those decisions, you need to be aware of those decisions.
  241. 5:33 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: making those decisions is why you both are here discussing with me instead of asking gae or scarness stupid things
  242. 5:33 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: same as the choco firing
  243. 5:34 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we arent talking about admins. we are talking about mods.
  244. 5:34 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Why Leon? Have we not proven time and again we can handle those types of decisions?
  245. 5:34 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ya i know dana
  246. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: If it's about feeling like you're the head guy and owner
  247. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We get it
  248. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: you have that title
  249. 5:35 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: yes tyrant... but as you can see, every other admins wanted you both demoted, and MY decision was NO
  250. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: you started the site
  251. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: everyone knows it
  252. 5:35 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats what im trying to say
  253. 5:35 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i dont make bad decisions at all
  254. 5:35 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: maybe some mistakes
  255. 5:35 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but not that big
  256. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: but you aren't involved in the required topics to feel the need to be involved.
  257. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Period.
  258. 5:35 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: exactly
  259. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We know it best cause we do it every single day.
  260. 5:35 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Don't get me wrong
  261. 5:36 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Not trying to offend you in any way
  262. 5:36 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Just stating simple facts
  263. 5:36 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
  264. 5:36 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: lets put it this way
  265. 5:36 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you want me to take care of applications and training the new mods?
  266. 5:36 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause i basically trained both of you
  267. 5:36 PM - Tyrant Mouf: As far as every other admin wanting us demoted
  268. 5:36 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Look at them now
  269. 5:36 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Sitting back and relaxing
  270. 5:36 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no you didnt leon.
  271. 5:36 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cmon dana
  272. 5:37 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You know who trained me?
  273. 5:37 PM - Tyrant Mouf: All those forums years ago train me
  274. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: years of modding sites
  275. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and running teams
  276. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: a decade of experience in this
  277. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: trained me.
  278. 5:37 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok, well
  279. 5:37 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you want me to take care of those?
  280. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no we dont.
  281. 5:37 PM - Tyrant Mouf: I can easily tell every member that breaks a rule to "Eat a fat dick." and ban them and call them "N00bz lozrs haters" and all that.
  282. 5:37 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
  283. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are not asking for less responsibility
  284. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are asking for more.
  285. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: more decision making
  286. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because we deserve it
  287. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: but more importantly
  288. 5:37 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we need it.
  289. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it is essential
  290. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to us doing what this site needs
  291. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: to get back on track
  292. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we need to have the ability to pick up more mods if we need to
  293. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because we feel it is necessary
  294. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because no one
  295. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and i do mean no one
  296. 5:38 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you already have more than enough dana, of ALL the things you both are complaining about, the only one who you cant do is decide numbers of mods added
  297. 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: knows more about what this site needs in terms of staff and hours put in than me and tyrant
  298. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: It's not specifically about numbers Leon
  299. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: This is all going way over your head
  300. 5:39 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5:38 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we need to have the ability to pick up more mods if we need to
  301. 5:39 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: numbers of mods to me
  302. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: It's about the fact that we want that same trust to make those types of decisions because we have earned them time and again.
  303. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Even something like number of mods.
  304. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: If we decide we need more mods, we get more mods.
  305. 5:39 PM - Tyrant Mouf: That simple.
  306. 5:40 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We know the community back to front by now as far as the site goes.
  307. 5:40 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Cause we're doing this every day.
  308. 5:40 PM - Tyrant Mouf: So we deserve that decision making power.
  309. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i went away on a business trip
  310. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and i was STILL modding the site
  311. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: while i was away
  312. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i went on vacation for a week
  313. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and i was still checking in on the site.
  314. 5:40 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and doing my part
  315. 5:41 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: less frequently than when i am home, but still doing it.
  316. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: like i already told 1000 times, im making the big decisions on the site, you both has enough decision power, and like i just demonstrate, you both thought u had less deicision somehow
  317. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: im very flexible with both of you when it comes to big decisions
  318. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and i think u both know that
  319. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so again
  320. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i dont see a problem here
  321. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: maybe some lack of communication
  322. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause like i said
  323. 5:42 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you both thought that u had less decision power
  324. 5:43 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we will get to lack of communication eventually
  325. 5:43 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: not going to have that conversation if we havent come to a decision on whether or not we are staying
  326. 5:43 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because you have in no way convinced me that we dont deserve that right and that decision making
  327. 5:43 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you havent given us a rational reason against it
  328. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you just repeat that you want that decision making power
  329. 5:44 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: well dana, if u both wanna leave cause u cant decide by yourself how many mods we are getting, or another owner/head admin decisions
  330. 5:44 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: its ur call dana
  331. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which is the dumbest thing i have heard since we have proven over and over again that me and tyrant know the most about it
  332. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: omg you are still stuck on the number of mods.
  333. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: leon
  334. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are communicating a concern to you
  335. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we gave you one example
  336. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: of how to fix that concern
  337. 5:44 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you are stuck on the example
  338. 5:45 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and not focused on the major issue
  339. 5:45 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which is our concern
  340. 5:45 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: dana
  341. 5:45 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ur not understanding
  342. 5:45 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i already prooved that the only thing of ALL you are complaining about
  343. 5:45 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: yes
  344. 5:45 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: that u cant do
  345. 5:45 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: is THAT example
  346. 5:46 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and u are basically telling me that ur leaving
  347. 5:46 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so tell me
  348. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no leon
  349. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you are not listening
  350. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you don't want to understand
  351. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: so you arent listening.
  352. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: give me
  353. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: 1 good reason
  354. 5:46 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that me and tyrant shouldnt have full decision making power
  355. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: when it comes to mods and community managers
  356. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that includes but is not limited to
  357. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: number of mods at any given time on the site.
  358. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which are mods and which are community managers
  359. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: promoting and demoting within those 2 staff groups
  360. 5:47 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: assigning their roles on the site
  361. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and any and all other decisions that have to do with how this site is moderated and run
  362. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: since it has been proven beyond any argument to the contrary
  363. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: that the only 2 people
  364. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: qualified to make those decisions
  365. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: are me and tyrant
  366. 5:48 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: big decisions are made by me dana, you already have enough decision power
  367. 5:48 PM - Tyrant Mouf: See Leon
  368. 5:48 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: give me more examples of decisions you would want to make
  369. 5:48 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: see.
  370. 5:48 PM - Tyrant Mouf: The problem is
  371. 5:49 PM - Tyrant Mouf: you're downsizing our problem because you're sticking to the statement that you are the boss and you make those calls
  372. 5:49 PM - Tyrant Mouf: even after we have presented you with proof and examples of things we need
  373. 5:49 PM - Tyrant Mouf: EXAMPLES
  374. 5:49 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: let me also highlight NEED
  375. 5:49 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok look
  376. 5:49 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: stop
  377. 5:49 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: one person, only
  378. 5:50 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: answer this
  379. 5:50 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: examples of decisions you NEED to make
  380. 5:50 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5 of them
  381. 5:50 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: sure
  382. 5:50 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how many mods
  383. 5:50 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: who are mods who are community managers
  384. 5:50 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what subforums each mod is responsible for
  385. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how many warning points are the threshold for a ban
  386. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which mods need to be hired and fired
  387. 5:51 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: done?
  388. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no i have plenty
  389. 5:51 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
  390. 5:51 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: sure
  391. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you asked for 5
  392. 5:51 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: better
  393. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: want more?
  394. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: who should be allowed to handle site reports
  395. 5:51 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: who should be allowed to ban
  396. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how long people should be banned for
  397. 5:52 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: as far as it goes seems like you were doing something else and not listening to me
  398. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: which mods are trustworthy enough to middleman
  399. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how mods should be trained
  400. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what the ruled of modding are
  401. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what the responsibilities of each mod are
  402. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what breaches of responsibilities are fireable offences
  403. 5:52 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what counts as habitual failure to complete tasks
  404. 5:53 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: how many hours a mod is required to work a day
  405. 5:53 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok, so now im sure that u didnt read what i said above
  406. 5:53 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: 6:20 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: examples of decisions you NEED to make
  407. 6:20 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5 of them
  408. 5:53 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you asked for 5
  409. 5:53 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i gave you them
  410. 5:53 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you said done?
  411. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i said nope, got plenty
  412. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause ur listing stuff where you have ALL decision power
  413. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and continued
  414. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: see
  415. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: the only one is... how many mods
  416. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: now i know YOU are not listening
  417. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because the first thing i listed
  418. 5:54 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Leon
  419. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we have no decision over.
  420. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause ur listing stuff where you have ALL decision power
  421. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and continued
  422. 5:54 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: see
  423. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: the only one is... how many mods
  424. .0
  425. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: let me write the next time dana
  426. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats a problem
  427. 5:54 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u need to let ppl write
  428. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so u can read
  429. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 5:53 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok, so now im sure that u didnt read what i said above
  430. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and with this
  431. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i mean
  432. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: when i said that you can fire and hire ppl
  433. 5:55 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: that u could get choco fired without me
  434. 5:56 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: listing those things let me know that u are not listening
  435. 5:56 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you can keep with the list
  436. 5:56 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and im pretty sure it would be the same
  437. 5:56 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: listing things where u already have 100% deciision power
  438. 5:56 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: only one with trouble is the numbers of mod
  439. 5:57 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: what brings me again to the question... this is all about that?
  440. 5:57 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: is that why ur leaving?
  441. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: as i have already discussed
  442. 5:57 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: cause everything else is already clear
  443. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: the fact that we had to ask your permission about the choco firing
  444. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: and the fact that we had to have ameeting and ask everyones permission
  445. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: about the choco firing
  446. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: means that this decision IS NOT mine and tyrants
  447. 5:57 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: it means it is EVERYONES decision
  448. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
  449. 5:58 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: can we consider that understood now?
  450. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: look
  451. 5:58 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: or do i need to make it more clear?
  452. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: this is what i think about that move dana
  453. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i mean
  454. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: the choco firing move
  455. 5:58 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: when u made a meeting for that
  456. 5:59 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 1. Aces... aces responsability on the site is limited, i know the decisions that aces can handle, and firing someone is something that i wouldnt ask for him
  457. 5:59 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so asking him was kind of stupid
  458. 6:00 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We listed the responsibilities cause you asked us to. That's besides the major issue though Leon. I'll make it plain as day for you. It is NOT about the number of mods Leon. Even if it wasn't the number of mods and instead was some other decision, the main issue does not change. That issue is the fact that we do all the work on this site and we simply want more decision making power because we deserve it. We don't want to have to run anything by anyone because no one else has to. Even you. We'd run it all by you because you are the owner and still our boss, but that doesn't mean you dictate the decisions, because you wouldn't be able to. Because you do not do the work we do. You don't know the terrain like we do so to speak. This is the problem. You are further making it more severe by downsizing our issue and sticking to an example we made. However, we could have made the example anything else. It is merely an example. So please stick with the main point.
  459. 6:00 PM - Tyrant Mouf: It is not us saying that you do not do enough work.
  460. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: It's us saying that you can't make those decisions because you do not do that specific work we do.
  461. 6:01 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok tyrant... thats why im asking, if its such a BIG problem, then i can take care of that if u want
  462. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Therefore the decision should lie with the ones who do that work.
  463. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Us.
  464. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Not you.
  465. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We would let you know of our decision of course.
  466. 6:01 PM - Tyrant Mouf: But the decision would already be made.
  467. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: let me finish the choco firing thing
  468. 6:02 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You're free to throw in some input, but the decision should still be in our ballpark.
  469. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and ill answer ur question
  470. 6:02 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Sure go ahead.
  471. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so well... 2. i wasnt there and even if i was there, i would say just... ok
  472. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so basically
  473. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: that decision is YOURS
  474. 6:02 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and im telling you right now
  475. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: those deicisions are YOURS
  476. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so... problem here?
  477. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: lack of communication
  478. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u didnt know that u could make that decision
  479. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: now
  480. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: tyrant
  481. 6:03 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: again
  482. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: your decision power is pretty big, and it gonna stay like that, maybe now that u understand that u have 100% deicison power on 99% of the list you gave me its gonna be better
  483. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but decision power of you and dana, is staying the same
  484. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: just understand that u are listing stuff where u already have 100% decision power
  485. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and thats my decision
  486. 6:06 PM - Tyrant Mouf: No Leon, it isn't about the specific decision. The fact is that you are denying us decision making power on something that makes no sense to deny it on
  487. 6:06 PM - Tyrant Mouf: and you list no reason for doing so.
  488. 6:06 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: tyrant
  489. 6:06 PM - Tyrant Mouf: What good does that do us Leon?
  490. 6:06 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: you guys have enough decision power
  491. 6:06 PM - Tyrant Mouf: None. It makes our job take longer, thus making our job harder because other things pend as well
  492. 6:06 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: is not
  493. 6:07 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Okay leon
  494. 6:07 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Tell me why you won't let us have as much decision making power as we need?
  495. 6:07 PM - Tyrant Mouf: PleasE?
  496. 6:07 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Please*
  497. 6:07 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: both of you came here asking for decision power on stuff where you already had 100%
  498. 6:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: no we didnt. we established we dont have 100%
  499. 6:07 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: already have the decision making power u need
  500. 6:07 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: maybe more
  501. 6:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: remember
  502. 6:07 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: cant choose how many mods = not 100%
  503. 6:08 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you said that yourself.
  504. 6:08 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i mean 100% decision power on THOSE stuff
  505. 6:08 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: means that u can totally fire a mod
  506. 6:08 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: not 100% of the list
  507. 6:08 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: its obvious dana
  508. 6:08 PM - Tyrant Mouf: And to reiterate, it isn't about not being able to do that specific thing, it's about the fact that this specific thing is being denied to us EVEN THOUGH we deal with that kind of thing firsthand
  509. 6:08 PM - Tyrant Mouf: in other words placing an obstacle and giving no reason at all so far as to why
  510. 6:09 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: like i said, i can take care of that if you guys think that u are too limited to run that
  511. 6:09 PM - Tyrant Mouf: How?
  512. 6:09 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: thats actually my question... how do you think ur too limited
  513. 6:09 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Would you let us have the final word on that?
  514. 6:09 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: no
  515. 6:09 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i mean
  516. 6:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: That's where the problem is.
  517. 6:10 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: i can take care of that job, if u think ur too limited to run that
  518. 6:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: thats the problem right there. that this needs to be explained to you
  519. 6:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: means that the decision
  520. 6:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: But Leon
  521. 6:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: should be in our hands and not yours
  522. 6:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You can't
  523. 6:10 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: why i cant?
  524. 6:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: In order to make that decision you have to do the tasks we do
  525. 6:10 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: exactly
  526. 6:10 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and u think i cant?
  527. 6:10 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You have to see the situation first hand
  528. 6:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we arent saying you cant
  529. 6:10 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: so?
  530. 6:10 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are saying youy DONT
  531. 6:11 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We're saying you don't.
  532. 6:11 PM - Tyrant Mouf: We do.
  533. 6:11 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ya, cause i gave you guys that job
  534. 6:11 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Which is why we should be able to handle it.
  535. 6:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: EXACTLY
  536. 6:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you gave us the job
  537. 6:11 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and u CAN handle it
  538. 6:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: if you wanted these decisions
  539. 6:11 PM - Tyrant Mouf: It's EXACTLY why we should handle it Leon.
  540. 6:11 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you should have done the job yourself!
  541. 6:11 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You just said why yourself.
  542. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
  543. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: look
  544. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: again
  545. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: read
  546. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: your decision power is pretty big, and it gonna stay like that, maybe now that u understand that u have 100% deicison power on 99% of the list you gave me its gonna be better
  547. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but decision power of you and dana, is staying the same
  548. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: just understand that u are listing stuff where u already have 100% decision power
  549. 6:05 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and thats my decision
  550. 6:12 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: done
  551. 6:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: if u want less reponsabilities, let me know and ill handle that
  552. 6:13 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Well Leon
  553. 6:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: Ok then leon.
  554. 6:13 PM - Tyrant Mouf: You clearly have stated your case
  555. 6:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: we are done too then
  556. 6:13 PM - Tyrant Mouf: So have we
  557. 6:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: but dana, you know that i didnt wanted you to MOD
  558. 6:13 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and u asked for it
  559. 6:13 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Our decision is made as well as yours.
  560. 6:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i suggest you ask your steamrep friends
  561. 6:13 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: what their advice is on what to do
  562. 6:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: when your 2 only hardworking staff members leave.
  563. 6:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: because that is what is happening right now.
  564. 6:14 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Goodbye Leon.
  565. 6:14 PM - Tyrant Mouf: Have a pleasant day.
  566. 6:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: you have put your foot down and so have we.
  567. 6:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: good luck with the site.
  568. Tyrant Mouf left chat.
  569. 6:14 PM - wuvs [dota2traders.com]: i honestly hope it works out for you.
  570. 6:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: and u call me childish dana?
  571. 6:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: anyway
  572. 6:14 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: dont worry
  573. 6:15 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ill be always here for you as a friend
  574. 6:15 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: whenever u want
  575. 6:25 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: dana
  576. 6:26 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: are u there?
  577. 6:26 PM - wuvs: yes.
  578. 6:26 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: what you wanna do then?
  579. 6:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u wanna delete me or something as well?
  580. 6:27 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: u wanna make a post on the site?
  581. 6:27 PM - wuvs: tyrant and i have made a post on the site already
  582. 6:28 PM - Leon [dota2traders.com]: ok
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