Ken VS Wolf

Ken started off with a strong argument, but really hurt his chance of winning in the second response. Drizzt OOT, Wolf wins.

Guy VS Andrew

Andrew wins. He beat Guy in Melee.

Talv VS Coco

To win, Saw Paing must land the Hammer of Burma; his striking is vague and at one point it was argued that he has piercing because he cut Rei's face with his elbow, but that got abandoned pretty quick. A lot of things are working against him here: Gaolang is familiar with Saw Paing, Gaolang has very explicit speed scaling as opposed to Saw Paing's extremely vague speed scaling, and Gaolang is skilled enough to force the Fang to fight with boxing- something that Coco never actually rebuted, even though you aren't really supposed to throw headbutts in boxing. On the other hand, Gaolang seems to have the ball in his court the whole time. He knows not to get hit by the Hammer, probably knows how to counter the Hammer if Rei can figure it out, he has very clear speed and strength, and will not aim for Saw Paing's skeleton-y parts. Talv gets the win- which, by scaling, makes him a better debater than Guy.

Corv VS TooAmasian

I didn't factor this into my judgement, but I felt weird about Corv using my and Iri's opinion on his calc to act like we had accepted it as an immutable fact not to be changed for ever. If someone offers a convincing rebuttal, I would be willing to change my mind on it.

Speaking of speed, it was pretty arrogant to act like TooAma could never win the antifeat argument when Buffy clearly moves slow all the time. Corv didn't even try to counter Buffy's antifeats, just going "well you have antifeats too". The difference is that GA has a lot more speed feats at this level than Buffy.

Corv had difficulty countering the piercing argument against GA, arguing that his arrows were weak rather than Buffy was strong. If a wooden spear can pierce her, then any arrow will pierce her, let alone ones that go through rock and metal. There was also the issue of Green Arrow's trick arrows, most of which went uncontested by Corv. Corv argued that he would always open with a normal arrow, then argued that he could accidentally pick the wrong arrow. Once he shoots the initial arrow, he will engage in melee, and despite being less skilled in martial arts, Buffy only appears to grapple if her opponent grapples, which it doesn't seem like GA does. GA has the potential to win or at least survive the initial incursion, in which case he could either continue or use more of his arrows, which Buffy would have a difficult time dealing with.

This really ended up making the fight sound more one-sided than it was. Corv did well in certain parts of the debate, such as how he laid out the argument for GA's in character behavior. However, in terms of the stats as presented, it seems like the in-character behavior didn't benefit Buffy enough. TooAmasian wins.

Embrace VS Kirb

OOT Response

Cosmo is out of tier. Kirbin got insanely greedy trying to argue that Cosmo has reaction times 2-11x better than the tiersetter. He tried to argue that it didn’t matter if they had no movement speed, but as I read Kirbin's argument, the baton dodge was in the context of Cosmo being able to dodge attacks and get behind the attacker in the instant of the attack, not just seeing the attack. He tried to scale to Akoya’s bullet dodge and even conceded that this was 24 times better than the tiersetter, saying a 20 ms difference “isn’t a lot” in a tier where a couple ms can make all the difference in speed. Also he never even touched the points about having attacks which bypass durability, being a master-level grappler against an opponent who specializes in a grappling art, and being able to outpredict his opponent, which I kinda thought would be a little pertinent.

Overall

This fight really ended up being about Cosmo's speed. This makes sense, given that the engagement will essentially be settled in one shot- either Kanade's swords slice off Cosmo's head, or Cosmo grapples Kanade and chokes her because she doesn't have any "choking durability" (???). Embrace started off strong with the 31 m/s calc, but then Kirbin countered with the expertly executed Kirb-posting strat where he argues a character as over tier in nearly every way except for one stat he intentionally leaves vague. Unfortunately for Kirbin, that was the striking/movement speed that ended up being really important. The foresight, the striking, the irresistable grappling and durability, everything went out the window when Kirbin said that Cosmo couldn't dodge an attack moving at 31 m/s, almost exactly the speed that Kanade's sword swings at. Embrace made some mistakes too (some arguments I thought were essentially based on speculating with no evidence, like "Cosmo COULD try to use striking" or "Howling COULD be high frequency"), but the fact that as-argued he will get hit by the sword and has no piercing durability is really hard to ignore. Embrace wins.