Authoritarianism v. Principled Dissent

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+SmartSuicide
Does this room support mocking?
I was mocked recently and it made me want to explode.
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+SmartSuicide
I thought, Here's this guy, sharing his viewpoints -- and they differ from mine!
+ForexTradr
mocked for wot
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+SmartSuicide
That's when I knew that I had made an enemy for life.
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+SmartSuicide
ForexTradr: for having a different life arc.
ForexTradr: do you agree that if somebody has a different view than us, they're mocking us?
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+ForexTradr
no
disagree
everyone is entitled to own views
+SmartSuicide
But what if they don't respect us and they inform us they don't respect us?
Isn't that mocking?!
+ForexTradr
well
depends
dont take it personal
EricofAZ excited about ur new president tomoro?
+LittleWing`
EricofAZ: What if he used the nickname SuicideIsPainless?
If that isn't acceptable, how about 'ThemeFromMash'
+SmartSuicide
It hurts me when people have nicknames that aren't what I would pick for myself.
+LittleWing`
EricofAZ: they are the same
+SmartSuicide
I mean, how dare they pick the names that are right for them and their life arc -- I am the determiner of morality, just as the New Testament teaches us.
+SmartSuicide
I spend a lot of my time worrying about how the teachings of Christ relate to the nicknames people pick in chatrooms I visit.
I just feel like it's one of the more important things we should be doing as Christians.
+Shaw
SmartSuicide, show me in the New Testament where it says we determine morality.
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+SmartSuicide
Shaw: it doesn't.
It specifically says to not worry about the morality of others.
And to focus on our own behavior.
+Shaw
Ah, so you admit you're a liar.  Got it.
Okay, you can go away now.
+SmartSuicide
This doesn't prevent most contemporary Christians from being the arbiter of morality.
Ignoring Shaw!*@*
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+karstensrage
fake news
+SmartSuicide
karstensrage: do you support democracy?
+karstensrage
no
+SmartSuicide
What type of governmental system would you like to exist?
+karstensrage
well maybe
but i dont think we have democracy
+SmartSuicide
I no longer support democracy with uniform voting.
+karstensrage
one that is not controlled by corporations and the rich
+SmartSuicide
I can imagine a democracy that is not controlled by corporations and the rich.
Would you support that?
+karstensrage
SmartSuicide, change your nick as EricofAZ has nicely asked
ill keep talking to you after
+SmartSuicide
karstensrage: EricofAZ cannot manage his own emotions, and so he tries to manage other people.
+karstensrage
SmartSuicide, just do it
+SmartSuicide
I refuse to help grow such a cognitive pattern that is harmful to EricofAZ, and all those around EricofAZ.
karstensrage: how does EricofAZ's preferences affect you in this conversation?
+karstensrage
i like EricofAZ
and i think its distracting
+SmartSuicide
Am I responsible for EricofAZ's behavior?
+karstensrage
you are responsible for how you comport yourself
+SmartSuicide
Agreed.
So far you've mentioned you are distracted.
+Gryfin
I like the form of the govt in the Bahama. NO taxes on individuals, its all funded on taxes of Business. It's majority rule
+SmartSuicide
Presumably by EricofAZ frequently telling me to change my name.
+karstensrage
he asked nicely, please
+SmartSuicide
Does that fall under the domain of how I comport myself?
+karstensrage
yes
+SmartSuicide
That seems untenable.
karstensrage: EricofAZ is a zero-tolerance thinker.
Do you see that?
+karstensrage
you dont understand that he has to manage the entire channel
+SmartSuicide
He sees the word suicide and thinks it's a 'bad' word.
+karstensrage
nicks and things people say can have a larger effect on the channel
+SmartSuicide
And so my nickname, with the inclusion of 'smart', because some kind of bad, mocking name.
For unclear reasons, he personalizes this as an insult.
+Gryfin
SmartSuicide:  Why not just change it, it's Depressing
+karstensrage
no
+SmartSuicide
Then, my refusal to modify my preferences to his preferences is taken as a further insult.
+karstensrage
you are making it personal, and you are not able to see outside your own box
+SmartSuicide
He internalizes it as his being a bad operator.
And so he has to increase his aggression in order to reassert that he is, in fact, a good operator.
ⓘ buddhist is now known as buddhist-afk
+SmartSuicide
And you wish to support this behavior?
+karstensrage
i understand the difficultly of being an op
+SmartSuicide
karstensrage: do you think it might be relevant what 'SmartSuicide' means to me?
+karstensrage
no
Ignoring karstensrage!*@*
+SmartSuicide
I put you on ignore, karstensrage.
Your level of authoritarianism became intolerable for me.
I encourage you to continue your cognitive style, while learning from others, as I can manage my emotions and I don't need to manage your behavior.
+Gryfin
SmartSuicide: I see it as him simply wanting you to change it because its not in keeping with the room
+SmartSuicide
Gryfin: do you agree the meaning of 'SmartSuicide' is not singular?
Just as the meaning of any piece of art is not singular?
That is, different people who see the same piece of art can have vastly different experiences.
Further, the meaning of the composer might differ dramatically from the meaning received by the receivers.
So, it appears that EricofAZ interprets this name as 'bad' or 'negative'.
This is not the only meaning.
Are you interested in what the composer of this name meant to convey?
+Gryfin
SmartSuicide: However in this room, it seems to me that its taken in light of the nature of the room' why not just change it?
+SmartSuicide
Gryfin: Because of a set of values which I can articulate.
1 - Self ownership
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SmartSuicide
2 - There is not a singular, fixed meaning for any symbol or collection of symbols.
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+SmartSuicide
3 - Authoritarianism is bad, even when it's done in a otherwise less significant chatroom.
4 - Allowing dumb people dictate to smart people is a sin in the intellectual's worldview.
5 - It helps cultivate the understanding that there is substantial difference among human beings.
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+Gryfin
SmartSuicide: That seems like simple verbage' change you nick and move on...best idea
+SmartSuicide
6 - Practice in exercising reasonable behavior, even when we feel annoyed, is one of the more useful life skills - practicing in a non-stressful chatroom is useful.
+HempFandango
EricofAZ, I don't think he's trolling, I just think he's autistic
+SmartSuicide
Gryfin: You have exhausted your argumentation.
Gryfin: Your thesis is rejected.
Gryfin: I would like to bring your attention to something.
About 120 seconds ago you shared with me that I should change my nick. Then, you asked me why I wouldn't?
You probably guessed I wouldn't be able to say too much in response.
Then, my brain rapid-fired six pretty key values that are at the center of Western secularism.
Then, you had an emotion that followed that perception -- you understood you were talking to somebody considerably smarter than you.
+Gryfin
SmartSuicide: Acutally I have more, you are in a room where they decide what the rules are. You dont get a vote
+SmartSuicide
Then, your brain created a defense mechanism response that I'm being ornery, and you reiterated your thesis.
Here's what I encourage you to do: focus on that emotion right after that perception.
Because you lost mindfulness in that moment and allowed yourself to not grow.
Ignoring Gryfin!*@*
+SmartSuicide
Gryfin: I already communicated I don't care about authoritarianism. That you would repeat this argument shows you have run out of tools.
Gryfin: My heroes are MLK, Tank Man, and monks who set themselves on fire to protest the Vietnam War.
They refused to bow to authoritarianism in much more difficult situations than this.
There is zero chance I will yield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFSZ5kVTlIA
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