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- [2016-06-28 10:57:48 PM] Feedback: ACTIVATE IT
- [2016-06-28 11:01:20 PM] *** King Lear added Gannon Murphy, Duke Silver, HT☆Rock, Myuer ***
- [2016-06-28 11:01:22 PM] *** King Lear added Gannon Murphy, Duke Silver, HT☆Rock, Myuer ***
- [2016-06-28 11:01:34 PM] King Lear: Fuck it Myuer doesn't get a choice.
- [2016-06-28 11:01:55 PM] King Lear: Also I don't have BGP on Skype.
- [2016-06-28 11:02:06 PM] Feedback: I'm sure someone here's gotta have him
- [2016-06-28 11:02:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: BGP has wrong opinions anyway
- [2016-06-28 11:02:16 PM] Feedback: oh well
- [2016-06-28 11:03:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I just say vanilla 1.04 77/88/99?
- [2016-06-28 11:03:16 PM] King Lear: Anyway welcome to the circus of rules. Where I pass responsibility onto people who aren't me.
- [2016-06-28 11:05:57 PM] King Lear: I mean Carma the Moeshit Cup's rules looked pretty shit.
- [2016-06-28 11:06:18 PM] King Lear: I think 1.04 vanilla is a solid choice but can we do better than solid?
- [2016-06-28 11:06:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean 81/90/99 is either an improvement or nothing at all
- [2016-06-28 11:07:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: except that it gets rid of two dubses
- [2016-06-28 11:10:14 PM] King Lear: I think adding everyone when they're asleep was a bad choice. Also >no DF.
- [2016-06-28 11:10:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: what
- [2016-06-28 11:10:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: why >no DF
- [2016-06-28 11:10:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: pes 14 1.12
- [2016-06-28 11:10:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-06-28 11:10:47 PM] Feedback: ^
- [2016-06-28 11:10:57 PM] King Lear: I was trying to figure out how permissions worked and SOMEONE decided to add DF for a laugh.
- [2016-06-28 11:11:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
- [2016-06-28 11:11:17 PM] Feedback: [conspiracies intensify]
- [2016-06-28 11:11:51 PM] King Lear: You know who you are.
- [2016-06-28 11:12:13 PM] Feedback: I'm Feedback.
- [2016-06-28 11:12:15 PM] Feedback: I knew that.
- [2016-06-28 11:12:21 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm memeback
- [2016-06-28 11:12:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: I know that
- [2016-06-28 11:14:32 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I suggest moving up the height brackets 5cm
- [2016-06-28 11:14:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: the max is 210
- [2016-06-28 11:14:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: but out brackets go up to 205
- [2016-06-28 11:15:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: can I suggest removing height brackets
- [2016-06-28 11:15:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: or that
- [2016-06-28 11:15:43 PM] Feedback: I'd actually be open to removing the points-for-height nerf
- [2016-06-28 11:15:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: or reducing it, yeah
- [2016-06-28 11:15:58 PM] Feedback: considering it was only implemented after Boris' kneejerk reaction to Tom /wg/ after Autumn 14
- [2016-06-28 11:15:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: like a 2-1-0
- [2016-06-28 11:16:14 PM] King Lear: So go back to the old heights?
- [2016-06-28 11:16:25 PM] Feedback: The height rules we had post summer 13 were fine imo
- [2016-06-28 11:16:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: well we fixed the problem with Autumn '14 /b/ and /wg/ by getting rid of the 25 card limit
- [2016-06-28 11:16:35 PM] Smugleaf: aeiou?
- [2016-06-28 11:16:37 PM] King Lear: I do miss seeing 205 strikers like Bert just tower over the little defenders.
- [2016-06-28 11:17:00 PM] Smugleaf: There was some talk about changing the height rules actually
- [2016-06-28 11:17:06 PM] Smugleaf: Something Tony first suggested
- [2016-06-28 11:17:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: Autumn '14 /wg/ if you're remember had a 165cm player with reduced stats
- [2016-06-28 11:17:11 PM] Smugleaf: No one likes their manlets
- [2016-06-28 11:17:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: and then Boris shat on them all cup for never playing him
- [2016-06-28 11:17:29 PM] Smugleaf: We should remove the first 2 height brackets and move it to 175-179
- [2016-06-28 11:17:38 PM] King Lear: Tony brought it up way back then didn't in Winter and well Spring was something else from him.
- [2016-06-28 11:17:40 PM] Feedback: wasn't that originally given as some manner of nerf?
- [2016-06-28 11:17:40 PM] Smugleaf: And yeah, bring back the 205 dudes
- [2016-06-28 11:17:49 PM] Feedback: I remember /wg/ having to start that manlet for one game
- [2016-06-28 11:17:56 PM] Feedback: and eventually subbing him off
- [2016-06-28 11:18:02 PM] Smugleaf: Yeah he was 155
- [2016-06-28 11:18:07 PM] King Lear: Also Smugleaf do you have BGP on Skype?
- [2016-06-28 11:18:10 PM] Smugleaf: no lol
- [2016-06-28 11:18:19 PM] Feedback: does -anyone- have BGP here?
- [2016-06-28 11:18:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: I would be down to have like a tit-for-tat system, where every player in a bracket above the default bracket has to have a counterpart the same number of brackets below
- [2016-06-28 11:18:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: or something
- [2016-06-28 11:18:34 PM] Feedback: I don't hate it.
- [2016-06-28 11:18:59 PM] King Lear: However I do not want to just do something because "eh what could go wrong".
- [2016-06-28 11:19:18 PM] Smugleaf: I think Tony's reasoning was to see more players getting playtime
- [2016-06-28 11:19:28 PM] Smugleaf: As some managers literally don't play players that are 165
- [2016-06-28 11:19:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: it would be fun to see Boris' salt when he fires up the first day of summer and every team is all 210cm players
- [2016-06-28 11:19:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: :^ )
- [2016-06-28 11:19:54 PM] Feedback: I'll be honest, I completely forget my player heights after shooting out the export
- [2016-06-28 11:19:56 PM] Smugleaf: I myself chose a tiebreaker in a /gd/ poll because I simply didn't want 165 Minimalism as a medal
- [2016-06-28 11:20:07 PM] Feedback: it's never made a big enough difference for me to give a shit
- [2016-06-28 11:20:28 PM] Smugleaf: I try and play the taller players if they have the right conditioning
- [2016-06-28 11:20:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: I always make Yee the manlet and sit him out as much as possible just because I can easily remember that Yee is tiny
- [2016-06-28 11:20:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: which sucks because I like Yee but I'd forget if it was someone else
- [2016-06-28 11:20:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: he plays a vital role on the team that way
- [2016-06-28 11:42:29 PM] *** King Lear added Denkocchi ***
- [2016-06-28 11:42:37 PM] King Lear: What's the worst that could happen.
- [2016-06-28 11:42:47 PM] Denkocchi: hi dragonfag puppet here
- [2016-06-28 11:42:55 PM] Denkocchi: oh wait Smugleaf is already here
- [2016-06-28 11:43:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: did you just say we shouldn't do that, Lear
- [2016-06-28 11:43:15 PM] Denkocchi: it was joke
- [2016-06-28 11:43:21 PM] Feedback: the only joke is this
- [2016-06-28 11:43:23 PM] *** Feedback unzips dick ***
- [2016-06-28 11:43:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: nice meme you got there
- [2016-06-28 11:43:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: I hope you have a liscence
- [2016-06-28 11:43:48 PM] King Lear: Meme about DF all you want, just know he's not actually going to be added.
- [2016-06-28 11:43:52 PM] Feedback: because it's me it can't be a meme
- [2016-06-28 11:43:58 PM] Feedback: it's in the constitution somewhere
- [2016-06-28 11:43:59 PM] Denkocchi: anyway let's get this out of the way now
- [2016-06-28 11:44:01 PM] Denkocchi: ahem
- [2016-06-28 11:44:01 PM] Smugleaf: But I'm right here
- [2016-06-28 11:44:08 PM] Denkocchi: harlock
- [2016-06-28 11:44:12 PM] *** King Lear added Collie Bro ***
- [2016-06-28 11:44:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: no
- [2016-06-28 11:44:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I make a petition to only have Pot 1 managers in here :^ )
- [2016-06-28 11:44:40 PM] Denkocchi: hey way to let moeshit into the /ag/L btw collie
- [2016-06-28 11:44:44 PM] Denkocchi: you ruined it
- [2016-06-28 11:44:51 PM] King Lear: omg I'm so drunk right now.
- [2016-06-28 11:45:02 PM] Collie Bro: clearly, I was let in :^ )
- [2016-06-28 11:45:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: if only because I don't want to share tictacal jeans with potential groupmates
- Smugleaf
- [2016-06-28 11:45:25 PM] King Lear: Seriously though, I do want a semblance of good ideas from you.
- [2016-06-28 11:45:31 PM] Feedback: [June 28, 2016 11:45 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< if only because I don't want to share tictacal jeans with potential groupmatesI will find you in the knockouts once again and destroy you.
- [2016-06-28 11:45:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: ay mang
- [2016-06-28 11:45:42 PM] Denkocchi: well my "genuine good idea" is being put on display next week
- [2016-06-28 11:45:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'll 2-2 you again I swer
- [2016-06-28 11:45:51 PM] Denkocchi: when it all crashes and burns I can leave
- [2016-06-28 11:45:53 PM] Denkocchi: although
- [2016-06-28 11:45:53 PM] Feedback: We're off to a cracker of a start here at the rules dome
- [2016-06-28 11:45:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: and then win on pens
- [2016-06-28 11:46:01 PM] Denkocchi: vanilla 95/88/80 is good too
- [2016-06-28 11:46:04 PM] Denkocchi: imotbh
- [2016-06-28 11:46:10 PM] King Lear: Which patch?
- [2016-06-28 11:46:13 PM] Denkocchi: 1.04
- [2016-06-28 11:46:18 PM] Collie Bro: I've found 1.04 to be best
- [2016-06-28 11:46:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: Lear am I still admin
- [2016-06-28 11:46:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: Myuer was saying something about HeavenlyPond saying something about raising Form on nonmedals
- [2016-06-28 11:46:27 PM] Collie Bro: no harlock pls thnkz
- [2016-06-28 11:46:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll kick everyone not in pot 1
- [2016-06-28 11:46:41 PM] Collie Bro: I'll kick you again jb
- [2016-06-28 11:46:46 PM] Collie Bro: fite me
- [2016-06-28 11:46:49 PM] HT☆Rock: carma you ain't got shit
- [2016-06-28 11:46:52 PM] Feedback: in the dark?
- [2016-06-28 11:46:56 PM] HT☆Rock: yo momma ain't got shit
- [2016-06-28 11:47:01 PM] HT☆Rock: yo daddy ain't got shit
- [2016-06-28 11:47:02 PM] Denkocchi: I'm the new /w/ manager btw so you can kick me :~)
- [2016-06-28 11:47:14 PM] HT☆Rock: but the height rules are fine the way they are
- [2016-06-28 11:47:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: hey don't talk shit about my mom or my mom's new boyfriend
- [2016-06-28 11:47:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh wait you said my dad
- [2016-06-28 11:47:34 PM] Denkocchi: [June 28, 2016 11:46 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< Myuer was saying something about HeavenlyPond saying something about raising Form on nonmedalsform 8
- [2016-06-28 11:47:37 PM] HT☆Rock: They're not even really a sizable nerf in the vanilla ruleset
- [2016-06-28 11:47:38 PM] Denkocchi: on keepers at least
- [2016-06-28 11:47:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: mywifesson is my favorite Iceland player
- [2016-06-28 11:47:47 PM] HT☆Rock: In the new setup, it hasn't been tested
- [2016-06-28 11:48:05 PM] Denkocchi: and where was this huge anti-harlock gang when I hopped on IRC last week
- [2016-06-28 11:48:13 PM] Denkocchi: lit only Twain said no
- [2016-06-28 11:48:21 PM] Feedback: probably 4ccg tbh
- [2016-06-28 11:48:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: I don't want Harlock
- [2016-06-28 11:48:30 PM] Collie Bro: I've been against harlock ever since I tested it desu
- [2016-06-28 11:48:44 PM] Denkocchi: if the issue is ratings that already has a patch
- [2016-06-28 11:48:44 PM] King Lear: Were you testing it on 1.04?
- [2016-06-28 11:49:13 PM] Collie Bro: I tested it on the original, didn't like it, and haven't put harlock back on since
- [2016-06-28 11:49:25 PM] HT☆Rock: That ain't helpful fam
- [2016-06-28 11:49:33 PM] Denkocchi: 1.03 and 1.04 harlock are very very different
- [2016-06-28 11:49:38 PM] HT☆Rock: ^
- [2016-06-28 11:49:38 PM] Feedback: ^
- [2016-06-28 11:49:43 PM] Denkocchi: based harlock not putting a changelog
- [2016-06-28 11:49:52 PM] HT☆Rock: let me finish elfgaming and I'll drop some knowledge
- [2016-06-28 11:49:52 PM] Denkocchi: luv u bby
- [2016-06-28 11:49:59 PM] Collie Bro: Fine, I guess I'll actually test stuff then
- [2016-06-28 11:50:02 PM] Denkocchi: sure I need to keep packing anyway
- [2016-06-28 11:50:02 PM] Collie Bro: jeez
- [2016-06-28 11:50:06 PM] Denkocchi: brb
- [2016-06-28 11:50:42 PM] Collie Bro: but just confirming, is MOTM still fucked?
- [2016-06-28 11:51:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: we can just make Rigtor do MotM
- [2016-06-28 11:51:11 PM] King Lear: There's a patch for it.
- [2016-06-28 11:51:29 PM] Collie Bro: oh and is there a way to easily take harlock on and off so I can test quicker
- [2016-06-28 11:51:29 PM] Denkocchi: Tomato and Tenko patched it up
- [2016-06-28 11:51:34 PM] Collie Bro: nice
- [2016-06-28 11:51:41 PM] Feedback: [June 28, 2016 11:51 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< we can just make Rigtor do MotMif cup results go against the teams he likes he stops watching, so he's not all that reliable (^^^^^^^^^^^^:
- [2016-06-28 11:51:41 PM] Denkocchi: I have backups of vanilla 1.03 and vanilla 1.04
- [2016-06-28 11:51:43 PM] Denkocchi: in rars
- [2016-06-28 11:51:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: kek Feedy
- [2016-06-28 11:52:42 PM] Collie Bro: Well I gtg, I'll do tests tomorrow and see if I like this new harlock better than the old one
- [2016-06-28 11:53:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: I still don't want Harlock
- [2016-06-28 11:53:36 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck what you want
- [2016-06-28 11:53:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: I still want 1.12
- [2016-06-28 11:53:46 PM] Feedback: ^
- [2016-06-28 11:53:47 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck what you want too
- [2016-06-28 11:54:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: P E S 1 3 B O Y S
- [2016-06-28 11:54:04 PM] King Lear: I truly added the Cup's finest didn't I.
- [2016-06-28 11:54:10 PM] Feedback: I mean you did
- [2016-06-28 11:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: at first
- [2016-06-28 11:54:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: plus smulel
- [2016-06-28 11:54:24 PM] Feedback: We're just letting the memes out before we get to work (^:
- [2016-06-28 11:54:29 PM] Denkocchi: yep don't worry I'm here
- [2016-06-28 11:55:03 PM] King Lear: Like, I am trusting you guys to at least try.
- [2016-06-28 11:55:27 PM] Denkocchi: I have been trying too much
- [2016-06-28 11:55:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: And I am trusting in Jesus Christ
- [2016-06-28 11:55:38 PM] HT☆Rock: I already put in the work
- [2016-06-28 11:55:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: we'll see who gets farther~~~
- [2016-06-28 11:55:54 PM] HT☆Rock: and am in an invitational to do more
- [2016-06-28 11:56:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: anyways I actually don't mind 1.04 that much
- [2016-06-28 11:56:10 PM] HT☆Rock: so if you need more data or whatver, I can provide it
- [2016-06-28 11:56:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: 4-3-3winslol is the future of football
- [2016-06-28 11:56:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: but three six fun is
- [2016-06-28 11:57:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: #bringback13
- [2016-06-28 11:57:08 PM] Denkocchi: 3-5-2 new meta
- [2016-06-29 12:02:46 AM] Smugleaf: Yo Johnny
- [2016-06-29 12:02:49 AM] Smugleaf: Activate it
- [2016-06-29 12:03:19 AM] Feedback: activate this
- [2016-06-29 12:03:31 AM | Edited 12:03:43 AM] Feedback: <Feedback> !roll 1d100 activate this
- <buttbot> Feedback rolls 100
- <buttbot> Check 'em
- [2016-06-29 12:03:48 AM] JohnnyBravo: [June 29, 2016 12:02 AM] Smugleaf:
- <<< Yo Johnny
- Activate it
- [2016-06-29 12:03:52 AM] *** JohnnyBravo removed Denkocchi from this conversation. ***
- [2016-06-29 12:04:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: so who is denkocchi again
- [2016-06-29 12:04:35 AM] Feedback: Norml
- [2016-06-29 12:04:36 AM] JohnnyBravo: norml
- [2016-06-29 12:04:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: oh
- [2016-06-29 12:04:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: shoulda known
- [2016-06-29 12:04:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: the purpose of this was to be a manager group
- [2016-06-29 12:04:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: people who test and shit
- [2016-06-29 12:05:11 AM] Smugleaf: People who know how PES works
- [2016-06-29 12:05:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: also he's a bit of a shitposting magnet
- [2016-06-29 12:05:26 AM] Smugleaf: Not people who get sacked and banned from a team for losing 6-1 and ragequitting
- [2016-06-29 12:05:32 AM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
- [2016-06-29 12:05:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: well
- [2016-06-29 12:05:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: JB you saw our height abuse match
- [2016-06-29 12:06:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes perfect let's do it
- [2016-06-29 12:06:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: it was ideal
- [2016-06-29 12:06:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's do that for all teams
- [2016-06-29 12:06:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: better yet
- [2016-06-29 12:06:22 AM] Feedback: Have everyone be giants?
- [2016-06-29 12:06:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's get rid of the height rules
- [2016-06-29 12:06:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: and not tell anyone
- [2016-06-29 12:06:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: >boris opens pes on day one
- >210cm /wg/ vs 210cm /mu/
- [2016-06-29 12:06:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: >faints
- [2016-06-29 12:06:57 AM] Gannon Murphy: kek
- [2016-06-29 12:07:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: that would be
- the best thing ever
- [2016-06-29 12:07:37 AM] Feedback: I would do everything in my power to bring back Snorlax from the dead to have him guest manage that one
- [2016-06-29 12:07:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: I would do... no wait Tom's dead
- [2016-06-29 12:08:00 AM] Feedback: Well
- [2016-06-29 12:08:05 AM] Feedback: with that attitude he's dead
- [2016-06-29 12:08:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: who killed Tom
- [2016-06-29 12:08:21 AM] Feedback: I don't know
- [2016-06-29 12:08:27 AM] King Lear: happy birthday motherfuckerHe's not that dead.
- [2016-06-29 12:08:29 AM] Gannon Murphy: I heard he died in Socchi
- [2016-06-29 12:08:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah he's not actually that dead
- [2016-06-29 12:09:14 AM] King Lear: It turns out our friend here is only mostly dead.
- [2016-06-29 12:11:18 AM] Feedback: My name is Inigo /mu/toya, you rigged my cup, prepare to be relegated.
- [2016-06-29 12:12:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: ok so the other two names floated for this were bgp and cemedy
- [2016-06-29 12:12:41 AM] Feedback: BGP we'd add if anyone had his fucking Skype
- [2016-06-29 12:12:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: does anyone have the latter's skype because apparently nobody has bgp and someone will have to pm him
- [2016-06-29 12:12:50 AM] Feedback: and I don't know if lear's gotten in touch with cemedy
- [2016-06-29 12:13:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: and if anyone has any other names for here let me or lear know
- [2016-06-29 12:13:38 AM] King Lear: Yeah I've sent a request to BGP on Skype and once he accepts I'll add him.
- [2016-06-29 12:13:46 AM] King Lear: I've already gotten the okay from him.
- [2016-06-29 12:13:55 AM] Feedback: oh
- [2016-06-29 12:14:10 AM] King Lear: And Cemedy likes to only be reachable by IRC and I haven't seen him on.
- [2016-06-29 12:14:42 AM] Feedback: alright then, I typically see him on IRC when he's on
- [2016-06-29 12:14:47 AM] Feedback: so if you're not around, I'll ask him
- [2016-06-29 12:15:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: do people actually r8 cemedy
- [2016-06-29 12:15:34 AM] Feedback: I do tbh
- [2016-06-29 12:15:38 AM] JohnnyBravo: sure
- [2016-06-29 12:15:53 AM] Feedback: he's won a (babby) cup and built some strong teams over the past year
- [2016-06-29 12:16:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: huh, he's just been "that guy who accidentally PES15's first cup" to me
- [2016-06-29 12:16:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: won spring
- 9-pointed summer
- dissected /vr/ in winter and had a very strong team to test against
- [2016-06-29 12:16:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmmm
- [2016-06-29 12:16:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: didn't know that :^)
- [2016-06-29 12:17:25 AM] JohnnyBravo: I mean once I beat it I -beat- it
- [2016-06-29 12:17:38 AM] JohnnyBravo: but 3-5-2 vs 4-4-2 was problematic initially
- [2016-06-29 12:17:49 AM] Gannon Murphy: tell me about it
- [2016-06-29 12:57:37 AM] HT☆Rock: if actually being a good manager meant anything, carma, feedback and I wouldn't be here (^:
- [2016-06-29 12:57:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: >Feedback
- [2016-06-29 12:57:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: m8
- [2016-06-29 12:59:04 AM] Smugleaf: Duke has the least losses but the worst winrate here
- [2016-06-29 12:59:12 AM] Smugleaf: Is he the best or the worst manager?
- [2016-06-29 12:59:14 AM] Smugleaf: dun dun dun
- [2016-06-29 12:59:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: who has the most losses
- [2016-06-29 12:59:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: feedback has the most wins of any active manager, I think we did this in irc once
- [2016-06-29 12:59:36 AM] Smugleaf: Probably HT, or Lear
- [2016-06-29 12:59:42 AM] Smugleaf: HT's been here for a while
- [2016-06-29 12:59:46 AM] Smugleaf: Lear just sucked :^]
- [2016-06-29 1:00:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: :^)
- [2016-06-29 1:00:24 AM] Smugleaf: So uh
- [2016-06-29 1:00:25 AM] King Lear: 6 losses in Cup matches.
- [2016-06-29 1:00:27 AM] Smugleaf: PES16
- [2016-06-29 1:00:30 AM] Smugleaf: How do we fix it
- [2016-06-29 1:00:40 AM] King Lear: Switch to Fifa.
- [2016-06-29 1:00:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: getting rid of height rules
- [2016-06-29 1:01:00 AM] Smugleaf: I'm all for changing height rules
- [2016-06-29 1:01:12 AM] Smugleaf: But that won't solve the blatant issue we have
- [2016-06-29 1:01:18 AM] Smugleaf: Of 2manygoalz
- [2016-06-29 1:01:58 AM] *** Feedback added Background Pony ***
- [2016-06-29 1:02:05 AM] Feedback: alright, gang's all here I think
- [2016-06-29 1:02:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: neat
- [2016-06-29 1:02:21 AM] HT☆Rock: [June 29, 2016 12:57 AM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< >Feedback
- m8Sarg does all the work (^:
- [2016-06-29 1:02:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: bueno
- [2016-06-29 1:02:32 AM] Feedback: eh, not really
- [2016-06-29 1:02:34 AM] Background Pony: Good morning
- [2016-06-29 1:02:34 AM] King Lear: Oh swell someone did have him.
- [2016-06-29 1:02:40 AM] Smugleaf: Hullo
- [2016-06-29 1:02:48 AM] HT☆Rock: ponies reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
- [2016-06-29 1:02:50 AM | Edited 1:02:57 AM] King Lear: Goddamn it is morning in Europe.
- [2016-06-29 1:02:50 AM] HT☆Rock: etc
- [2016-06-29 1:02:58 AM] Smugleaf: It's 6AM where I am
- [2016-06-29 1:02:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: It's 10PM here
- [2016-06-29 1:03:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: midnight
- [2016-06-29 1:03:08 AM] King Lear: 1 AM.
- [2016-06-29 1:03:29 AM] HT☆Rock: [June 29, 2016 1:01 AM] Smugleaf:
- <<< But that won't solve the blatant issue we have
- Of 2manygoalzto be perfectly honest, a lot of this is because most motherfuckers have no idea how to defend or even set up defensive sliders
- [2016-06-29 1:03:43 AM] HT☆Rock: especially in the VGL
- [2016-06-29 1:03:46 AM] Smugleaf: I dunno man
- [2016-06-29 1:03:58 AM] Smugleaf: Like, I've been testing out a fair bit on 1.04
- [2016-06-29 1:04:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: smulel
- [2016-06-29 1:04:11 AM] Smugleaf: And no matter the defensive sliders, or formation
- [2016-06-29 1:04:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: -you- have no idea how to set up defensive sliders either (^:
- [2016-06-29 1:04:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: I don't mind vanilla 1.04 too much tbh
- [2016-06-29 1:04:26 AM] Smugleaf: Playing counter vs counter has never resulted in a clean sheet on my machine
- [2016-06-29 1:04:32 AM] Smugleaf: Lowest I've had is 1-1
- [2016-06-29 1:04:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: I've had low scoring games
- [2016-06-29 1:04:49 AM] Smugleaf: And counter is a very popular slider to use
- [2016-06-29 1:04:57 AM] HT☆Rock: ALL
- [2016-06-29 1:04:58 AM] HT☆Rock: OUT
- [2016-06-29 1:05:00 AM] HT☆Rock: DEFENSE
- [2016-06-29 1:05:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: counter is overwhelmingly favored
- [2016-06-29 1:05:07 AM] Smugleaf: The only time I've had a clean sheet was when I was hosting the VGL
- [2016-06-29 1:05:16 AM] Background Pony: We played our cup on 1.04, and the only crazy scorelines we got were when two offensive teams were playing eachother with offensive tactics.
- [2016-06-29 1:05:17 AM] Smugleaf: And it was /ffg/ on slurp vs a shit /mhg/
- [2016-06-29 1:05:35 AM] Smugleaf: When I play two good teams (ie /gd/ vs teams of my choosing), never a clean sheet
- [2016-06-29 1:05:41 AM] Smugleaf: Always get clusterfucks
- [2016-06-29 1:05:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: stop doing many/many it fucks pes
- [2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] Smugleaf: I'm currently on medium/medium
- [2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] HT☆Rock: Unless it's possession lol
- [2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: ban many/many tbh
- [2016-06-29 1:06:05 AM] Smugleaf: But that's the thing
- [2016-06-29 1:06:06 AM] Background Pony: I get that when I play vs /gd/ as well. Kerning always scores, no matter what.
- [2016-06-29 1:06:14 AM] Smugleaf: You can't tell managers what to not play
- [2016-06-29 1:06:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: oh certainly
- [2016-06-29 1:06:23 AM] Smugleaf: PES16 is just pretty much damn broken
- [2016-06-29 1:06:31 AM] Smugleaf: Or at least under our current ruleset
- [2016-06-29 1:06:31 AM] HT☆Rock: You also can't tell managers to get fuckin' gud
- [2016-06-29 1:06:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know about broken
- [2016-06-29 1:06:45 AM] Smugleaf: And quite frankly, I haven't got a scooby how to fix it
- [2016-06-29 1:06:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: it's very heavily dependent on the teams
- [2016-06-29 1:06:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: moreso than previous versions
- [2016-06-29 1:06:53 AM] HT☆Rock: so in order to counteract that, a gold stat nerf seems the easiest fix
- [2016-06-29 1:07:05 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah well Johnny, that's the thing
- [2016-06-29 1:07:15 AM] HT☆Rock: and a buff to bronzes
- [2016-06-29 1:07:21 AM] Smugleaf: Even the best two teams can result in goalfests
- [2016-06-29 1:07:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck nerfing golds
- [2016-06-29 1:07:24 AM | Edited 1:07:24 AM] Smugleaf: It's the counter slider
- [2016-06-29 1:07:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: there's more variability in scorelines depending on the setups
- [2016-06-29 1:07:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: that ruins the point
- [2016-06-29 1:07:30 AM] Smugleaf: It's too offensive?
- [2016-06-29 1:07:32 AM] Smugleaf: idk
- [2016-06-29 1:07:42 AM] Smugleaf: But counter just causes shit to break imo
- [2016-06-29 1:07:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: people run really bad flp though
- [2016-06-29 1:07:48 AM] JohnnyBravo: zero vertical compactness
- [2016-06-29 1:07:52 AM] Background Pony: The issue I have with nerfs is when you fix the game so offensive teams/tactics get normal scorelines, you screw over every other team. You basically force everyone to go /m/ or bust
- [2016-06-29 1:07:52 AM] HT☆Rock: carma eat a dick
- [2016-06-29 1:08:04 AM] HT☆Rock: Not when you buff silvers and bronzes
- [2016-06-29 1:08:15 AM] HT☆Rock: or hell, not when you keep silvers the same and buff bronzes
- [2016-06-29 1:08:26 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah I've never been in favour of nerfs
- [2016-06-29 1:08:38 AM] HT☆Rock: has anyone besides me and nomo and the horsefucker actually *run* tests wtih the stat nerfs?
- [2016-06-29 1:08:41 AM] Smugleaf: >AI is crap
- >let's lower them
- >that'll make it better
- >???
- [2016-06-29 1:08:47 AM] HT☆Rock: just a question
- [2016-06-29 1:08:55 AM] JohnnyBravo: well nerfs target other things than general AI
- [2016-06-29 1:08:58 AM] Gannon Murphy: what smuggles said
- [2016-06-29 1:08:59 AM] JohnnyBravo: I did nerf tests on 1.03
- [2016-06-29 1:09:07 AM] Smugleaf: I haven't
- [2016-06-29 1:09:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: I disliked it on 1.03
- [2016-06-29 1:09:17 AM] Smugleaf: I just test 77/88/99 on vanilla 1.04
- [2016-06-29 1:09:23 AM] Smugleaf: I was preparing for Summer
- [2016-06-29 1:09:31 AM] Background Pony: Stat compression is a very delicate thing. When we tried this in winter, it was really easy to go too far and create boring pinball games where no one ever got dispossessed/intercepted except in the enemy box area.
- [2016-06-29 1:09:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: the reasonable thing to do would be leave it as-is on 1.04
- [2016-06-29 1:09:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: can we agree that same ruleset 1.04 is the "safe" option here?
- [2016-06-29 1:10:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: if we want to be absolute madmen we can look at other things
- [2016-06-29 1:10:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: and that anything else is going to have to beat that fairly well
- [2016-06-29 1:10:15 AM] Background Pony: [June 29, 2016 1:09 AM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< can we agree that same ruleset 1.04 is the "safe" option here?Agreed.
- [2016-06-29 1:10:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-06-29 1:10:30 AM] Feedback: It's a solid enough base to start on
- [2016-06-29 1:13:26 AM] Background Pony: Apparently PES17 is a lot slower paced. So if we manage to move over to that game, we won't have to worry about toomanygoals anymore.
- [2016-06-29 1:13:39 AM] Background Pony: But it will have it's own problems, I'm sure
- [2016-06-29 1:13:43 AM] Gannon Murphy: ohgod I hope they don't have that DRM shit
- [2016-06-29 1:13:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: what'sitcalled
- [2016-06-29 1:14:04 AM] Background Pony: denuvo?
- [2016-06-29 1:14:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-06-29 1:14:24 AM] Gannon Murphy: PES17 sounds promising tbh
- [2016-06-29 1:14:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: but we've still got two more on 16
- [2016-06-29 1:15:06 AM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 12:08 AM
- > I did nerf tests on 1.03
- Nigger this is 1.04
- [2016-06-29 1:15:42 AM] Background Pony: But as for PES16. Is "toomanygoals" actually a big problem for the viewerbase?
- [2016-06-29 1:15:50 AM] JohnnyBravo: I know ht
- [2016-06-29 1:15:57 AM] HT☆Rock: Look, we need to have some sort of actual testing protocol for this version
- [2016-06-29 1:15:59 AM] JohnnyBravo: That's why I qualified my statemwnt
- [2016-06-29 1:16:21 AM] HT☆Rock: Which means we need to decide what to test for this version.
- [2016-06-29 1:16:35 AM] HT☆Rock: Fuck what you think about 1.03
- [2016-06-29 1:16:56 AM] JohnnyBravo: Literally not the point
- [2016-06-29 1:17:03 AM] HT☆Rock: So the first order of business is: harlock or no harlock
- [2016-06-29 1:17:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'd prefer it if we didn't
- [2016-06-29 1:17:33 AM] HT☆Rock: It's influencing the discussion in the face of actual data, so it kinda is, JB
- [2016-06-29 1:17:34 AM] Feedback: [June 29, 2016 1:15 AM] Background Pony:
- <<< But as for PES16. Is "toomanygoals" actually a big problem for the viewerbase?I don't think it would be for the average 4cc viewer, that having been said I feel matchdays have been somewhat longer just because there's a lot more goals.
- [2016-06-29 1:17:42 AM] Feedback: which might be a detriment to most of the viewers
- [2016-06-29 1:17:57 AM] Background Pony: That's true. There's a lot of replay and goalhorn.
- [2016-06-29 1:18:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: too much replay and goalhorn
- [2016-06-29 1:18:12 AM] HT☆Rock: I say we test vanilla, since the AGL is Harlock confirmed
- [2016-06-29 1:18:16 AM] HT☆Rock: Personally
- [2016-06-29 1:18:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: esp for a commentator like boris who feels obliged to be hype about every goal
- [2016-06-29 1:18:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: We were talking about what stat nerfs generally do
- [2016-06-29 1:18:47 AM] Background Pony: Are we talking about another test cup?
- [2016-06-29 1:19:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: If there was an agreed upon stat set to test in vanilla 1.04 I think that would be a good course of action
- [2016-06-29 1:20:13 AM] Background Pony: wasnt the moeshit cup tested on 1.04 + stat compression?
- [2016-06-29 1:20:32 AM] HT☆Rock: 90/85/80, which I said was shit before it happened
- [2016-06-29 1:20:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: moeshit was fucking 80/85/90
- [2016-06-29 1:20:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: golds should stay 99
- [2016-06-29 1:21:00 AM] HT☆Rock: But sillius is a cocksleeve for Myuer, so that did nothing
- [2016-06-29 1:21:05 AM] Feedback: It also ran 1.04+Harlock
- [2016-06-29 1:21:07 AM] HT☆Rock: Why, carma?
- [2016-06-29 1:21:13 AM] Background Pony: bad results are still results.
- [2016-06-29 1:21:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: there's no reason to make worse the only players who don't fuck everything up regularly
- [2016-06-29 1:21:25 AM] King Lear: HT reminder that Myuer is in this chat.
- [2016-06-29 1:21:37 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't give a damn
- [2016-06-29 1:21:40 AM] King Lear: Just making sure.
- [2016-06-29 1:21:46 AM] Feedback: he's presumably a big boy, he can handle the banter
- [2016-06-29 1:22:11 AM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 12:21 AM
- > there's no reason to make worse the only players who don't fuck everything up regularly
- Which is why silvers get a boost or stay the same, as well as bronzes getting a boost
- [2016-06-29 1:22:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: fine
- [2016-06-29 1:22:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: but don't touch golds
- [2016-06-29 1:22:28 AM] HT☆Rock: And a 95 player is still really good
- [2016-06-29 1:22:33 AM] HT☆Rock: Better than good
- [2016-06-29 1:22:52 AM] HT☆Rock: Do you actually have a legit reason for this?
- [2016-06-29 1:23:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: it would be a disservice to the fans
- [2016-06-29 1:23:36 AM] HT☆Rock: Like look: the problem is there are too many goals
- [2016-06-29 1:23:45 AM] HT☆Rock: There are several ways to solve this
- [2016-06-29 1:23:50 AM] Background Pony: bent had an argument for this a while ago, saying nerfs can never make AI better. It can only make AI worse.
- [2016-06-29 1:24:03 AM] Gannon Murphy: basically
- [2016-06-29 1:24:06 AM] Background Pony: so nerfing golds may fix somethings, but it will also make overall play look worse.
- [2016-06-29 1:24:09 AM] JohnnyBravo: Was it a "disservice" when you ran 94 overall Bateman then
- [2016-06-29 1:24:13 AM] HT☆Rock: Did bent have data for this
- [2016-06-29 1:24:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: no because PEs15 was a laugh
- [2016-06-29 1:24:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: and anybody could score
- [2016-06-29 1:24:39 AM | Edited 1:25:45 AM] HT☆Rock: For FUCK'S SAKE I ran a week plus of tests on this before this scheme was even hatched
- [2016-06-29 1:25:11 AM] HT☆Rock: Harlock, vanilla, nerfs, no nerfs, 90 golds 95 golds
- [2016-06-29 1:25:13 AM] Background Pony: Hmm, we may have had some tests on that in winter (nerfed golds), but I'm not sure. I've nothing on paper anyway.
- [2016-06-29 1:25:17 AM] HT☆Rock: You want it I got it
- [2016-06-29 1:25:22 AM] HT☆Rock: Very recently
- [2016-06-29 1:25:32 AM] HT☆Rock: Like post /vg/L recent
- [2016-06-29 1:26:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'm most interested in vanilla 95 golds out of all the nerf options
- [2016-06-29 1:27:08 AM] HT☆Rock: Okay cool
- [2016-06-29 1:27:19 AM] HT☆Rock: I can give you data and impressions on that
- [2016-06-29 1:27:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: Doesn't mean I want nerfs (leaning towards no) but that seems best at a glance
- [2016-06-29 1:27:32 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'll run some games on that tomorrow
- [2016-06-29 1:27:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: Give me your doc and I'll use the same teams
- [2016-06-29 1:28:28 AM] Background Pony: What I believe is the biggest problem causing "too many goals" is how easy throughball assists are.
- [2016-06-29 1:28:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: they're not easy, they're random
- [2016-06-29 1:28:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: they juts happen
- [2016-06-29 1:28:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: just
- [2016-06-29 1:29:03 AM] Background Pony: well jeah, that too, but PES16 defense just can't handle them
- [2016-06-29 1:29:59 AM | Edited 1:30:07 AM] Background Pony: goals just come out of nowhere because of that. Instead of good passing build up, a DMF/CMF will just boot the ball up over the defense to a goalpoacher, and it's almost guaranteed a goal.
- [2016-06-29 1:31:09 AM] Background Pony: I've also no idea how to change that. PES16 AI is just retarded when it comes to that.
- [2016-06-29 1:31:24 AM] Gannon Murphy: there are things you can do as a manager to mitigate that
- [2016-06-29 1:32:47 AM] Background Pony: mitigate it, but never fix it. Out of possession tactics don't apply when you have the ball. Your defenders will happily move up all the way to the mid line if you have the ball long enough.
- [2016-06-29 1:34:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: shouldn't they?
- [2016-06-29 1:35:23 AM] Background Pony: Yes, but with PES16's AI it's just a recipe for disaster.
- [2016-06-29 1:41:17 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pJTQH/35b6805369.txt
- This is the preliminary style test for 80/90/95 Vanilla. I couldn't test more because /ag/L stuff
- [2016-06-29 1:42:05 AM] HT☆Rock: I ran a full 16 team setup for Moeshit rules
- [2016-06-29 1:48:32 AM] Background Pony: I haven't tested form 8 on keepers. Does it improve them?
- [2016-06-29 1:49:10 AM] HT☆Rock: It improves their arrow roll, but that's about it
- [2016-06-29 1:49:22 AM] HT☆Rock: The stat bump is more important I believe
- [2016-06-29 1:49:47 AM] Background Pony: Form on keepers was always a bit of a mystery stat. When combined stats were still a thing, keepers had a consistency stat, and only form affected it.
- [2016-06-29 1:49:59 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't know the guts like that
- [2016-06-29 1:50:07 AM] HT☆Rock: I just know what I can see, sadly
- [2016-06-29 1:50:46 AM] Background Pony: I wish PES had better documentation. But I guess these arcade sports games are just too normie and no one gives a fuck.
- [2016-06-29 1:50:57 AM] HT☆Rock: They used to until Jenkey died
- [2016-06-29 1:51:08 AM] HT☆Rock: PES2014 killed off a lot of the fanbase
- [2016-06-29 1:51:30 AM | Edited 1:51:35 AM] HT☆Rock: The rigged wiki is basically the place to go for player style info now
- [2016-06-29 1:51:32 AM] HT☆Rock: which is kek
- [2016-06-29 1:51:43 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah lel
- [2016-06-29 1:51:51 AM] HT☆Rock: we're third on google and everything
- [2016-06-29 1:51:59 AM] Background Pony: jeah, I noticed that too. You search for any kind of info on PES, implyingrigged is always at the top.
- [2016-06-29 1:52:08 AM] HT☆Rock: we are king autists
- [2016-06-29 1:52:20 AM] HT☆Rock: (and a lot of the documentation is video stuff now)
- [2016-06-29 1:53:41 AM] HT☆Rock: But honestly, what I'm thinking is this: we have data on 80/85/90 (Moeshit Cup). We're going to have some data on 80/88/95 (/ag/L). We have data on 77/88/99 (/vg/L)
- [2016-06-29 1:54:03 AM] HT☆Rock: So from there, we see that Moeshit is too slurpy and /vg/L is too goal-filled
- [2016-06-29 1:54:09 AM] Background Pony: /mlp/ league is also 77/88/99
- [2016-06-29 1:54:15 AM] HT☆Rock: Ah
- [2016-06-29 1:54:23 AM] Background Pony: on 1.04 vanilla
- [2016-06-29 1:54:30 AM] HT☆Rock: Is there a variety of tactics in the horsefucking league?
- [2016-06-29 1:54:37 AM] HT☆Rock: slider and formation wise?
- [2016-06-29 1:54:49 AM] Background Pony: yes, we intentionally took all different formations.
- [2016-06-29 1:55:29 AM] Background Pony: It's sort of designed as a way to pick the /mlp/ formation for summer. We also repeat the whole thing a dozen times, even if we only streamed it once.
- [2016-06-29 1:55:48 AM] Background Pony: but were obviously waiting until the rules are decided before we run the rest.
- [2016-06-29 1:56:33 AM] HT☆Rock: So the horsefucker league shows that sane games can be played on the classic settings...if the team designers are of similar minds
- [2016-06-29 1:56:47 AM] HT☆Rock: Where the /vg/L was a gigantic clusterfuck...due to people not knowing PES
- [2016-06-29 1:56:52 AM] HT☆Rock: or probably how to breathe
- [2016-06-29 1:57:09 AM] Background Pony: like I said, we still got some insane scorelines, but it was when offensive teams played offensive teams with offensive tactics
- [2016-06-29 1:57:27 AM] HT☆Rock: so the trick here would be to make something on vanilla rules with different thought processes going into them
- [2016-06-29 1:57:51 AM] Background Pony: fix the people, not the rules, heh
- [2016-06-29 1:57:53 AM] HT☆Rock: Which would mean a test cup involving the people in here, most likely
- [2016-06-29 1:58:40 AM] King Lear: Something though is that we didn't get this discrepancy between "good" and "bad" teams' results to the extent we're seeing with 16.
- [2016-06-29 1:58:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah because 16 doesn't hold your hand
- [2016-06-29 1:59:00 AM] HT☆Rock: ^
- [2016-06-29 1:59:10 AM] HT☆Rock: There's no defensive cover like 15's two banks of four
- [2016-06-29 1:59:15 AM] HT☆Rock: (fuck you lear (envy) )
- [2016-06-29 1:59:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: you couldn't go full retard without being twinky or SDA before 16
- [2016-06-29 1:59:28 AM] Background Pony: well there is, if you run a 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 formation
- [2016-06-29 1:59:51 AM | Edited 2:00:30 AM] HT☆Rock: True, but not every formation collapses into a 4-4-2/5-3-2 out of possession
- [2016-06-29 2:00:23 AM] King Lear: (fuck you lear (envy) )(get fucked)
- Yeah the flat lines are gone with 16.
- [2016-06-29 2:00:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: flat lines aren't gone
- [2016-06-29 2:00:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: they're just flat lines in your formation
- [2016-06-29 2:01:02 AM] HT☆Rock: yes, carma
- [2016-06-29 2:01:08 AM] HT☆Rock: please pay attention
- [2016-06-29 2:01:21 AM] Background Pony: I do agree that shit teams get exposed in PES16. We completely misjudged what kind of formations we'd be seeing in the meta, and as a result we really struggled to get out of our group in Winter.
- [2016-06-29 2:01:27 AM] HT☆Rock: every team doesn't immediately, regardless of your tactics or formation, collapse
- [2016-06-29 2:01:35 AM] HT☆Rock: like they did in non-fluid 15
- [2016-06-29 2:01:45 AM] HT☆Rock: You can still set them up to defend in two banks of four
- [2016-06-29 2:01:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: well yeah
- [2016-06-29 2:01:51 AM] HT☆Rock: That's just not the default
- [2016-06-29 2:02:22 AM] HT☆Rock: It is true that really fucking bad teams get exposed, regardless of ruleset
- [2016-06-29 2:02:44 AM] HT☆Rock: /h/ just got eaten alive in pretty much every format
- [2016-06-29 2:04:14 AM] HT☆Rock: also, /out/ tended to fold like a card table against stiff competition
- [2016-06-29 2:06:09 AM] Background Pony: I think /out/ was one of the more fun formations.
- [2016-06-29 2:06:28 AM] Background Pony: But I hate silver wingers so much.
- [2016-06-29 2:06:32 AM] HT☆Rock: I was running their default sliders and players on Preset 2
- [2016-06-29 2:06:58 AM] HT☆Rock: Jack decided he was fucking Noah on the bench with two of every kind of central midfielder
- [2016-06-29 2:07:05 AM] HT☆Rock: so I might have picked wrong
- [2016-06-29 2:07:52 AM] Background Pony: seemd to me like he just picked a classic 4-4-2, so probably a destroyer DMF and a box to box CMF
- [2016-06-29 2:09:16 AM] HT☆Rock: I'll have to check what he started with
- [2016-06-29 2:09:26 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pJV5d/b4cac6eee7.png
- [2016-06-29 2:09:30 AM] HT☆Rock: because that seems like what it should be but that doesn't mean it is
- [2016-06-29 2:11:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: BGP does tha spreadsheet have every Winter team?
- [2016-06-29 2:11:14 AM] King Lear: Odd that his players have outside footing.
- [2016-06-29 2:11:34 AM] Background Pony: no, only the top 8 and the formation they played on the final day.
- [2016-06-29 2:11:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: ah
- [2016-06-29 2:11:48 AM] Smugleaf: >LMF and RMF have the same footing
- [2016-06-29 2:11:50 AM] Smugleaf: Huh
- [2016-06-29 2:11:53 AM] Background Pony: for testing purposes.
- [2016-06-29 2:12:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: on my current build the LWF and RWF are both left footed
- [2016-06-29 2:12:13 AM] HT☆Rock: yeah, Knife Thread and Innawoods are the middle two on my end
- [2016-06-29 2:12:23 AM] Smugleaf: But why
- [2016-06-29 2:12:30 AM] HT☆Rock: One crosser, one finisher
- [2016-06-29 2:12:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-06-29 2:12:52 AM] Background Pony: crossing seems a lot more frequent in 1.04
- [2016-06-29 2:13:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's definitely less bad
- [2016-06-29 2:13:04 AM] Gannon Murphy: I think
- [2016-06-29 2:13:08 AM] Background Pony: but that might be confirmation bias
- [2016-06-29 2:13:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: at least there's less switching sides and losing the ball
- [2016-06-29 2:13:19 AM] HT☆Rock: lol yeah
- [2016-06-29 2:13:46 AM] Background Pony: the long crosses to the other flank are so infuriating
- [2016-06-29 2:13:57 AM] HT☆Rock: So I've got shit set for the /ag/L; is there anything in particular you'd like for me to test on a different save?
- [2016-06-29 2:13:57 AM] Background Pony: it almost always results in a loss of possession
- [2016-06-29 2:14:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: what gets me is when the wingers switch sides
- [2016-06-29 2:14:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: like nigga get back to your position you daft cunt
- [2016-06-29 2:14:52 AM] Background Pony: I haven't really seen that, but I generally dislike wingers anyway
- [2016-06-29 2:15:27 AM] King Lear: the long crosses to the other flank are so infuriatingGenerally this is only when the players have no passing options on their side, usually from decent pressure from what I've seen. Though long ball and high support range seem to make players favour it over risky passes. But this is just from casual observation.
- [2016-06-29 2:16:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: well obviously there's slider changes you can make to mitigate it, like most things
- [2016-06-29 2:17:16 AM] HT☆Rock: position switching is supposed to fuck with marking and allow two-footed players to both pass and score
- [2016-06-29 2:18:02 AM] King Lear: no, only the top 8 and the formation they played on the final day.Did you do that for Spring as well? Like I didn't even put that much organization into Spring /w/.
- [2016-06-29 2:18:02 AM] HT☆Rock: now whether it does that...
- [2016-06-29 2:18:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: it doesn't
- [2016-06-29 2:20:05 AM] Background Pony: I haven't done it for spring, no.
- [2016-06-29 2:20:26 AM] King Lear: Honestly people are more likely to run things more like Spring than Winter.
- [2016-06-29 2:20:41 AM] Background Pony: hmm, I'm not sure.
- [2016-06-29 2:20:42 AM] Smugleaf: This Summer is the first time I've really tested pre-cup
- [2016-06-29 2:20:52 AM] Background Pony: If they do, /fit/ is going to have a field day
- [2016-06-29 2:21:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: I can tell you right now that /fit/ will be really very good in Summer
- [2016-06-29 2:21:28 AM] HT☆Rock: everybody wants to be a /m/echa
- [2016-06-29 2:21:31 AM] Background Pony: I feel like super offensive formations fall apart when they hit defensive ones. They just hit a brick wall.
- [2016-06-29 2:21:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: nah /m/'s toast
- [2016-06-29 2:21:45 AM] HT☆Rock: or will default to 4-4-2 diamond
- [2016-06-29 2:22:21 AM] King Lear: Maybe it just turns into a cyclical meta waxing and waning between /m/ and /fit/ type formations.
- [2016-06-29 2:22:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: it won't be
- [2016-06-29 2:22:41 AM] Background Pony: we asked tony to make a formation for the /mlp/ cup, and he made an incredibly slurpy 5-4-1 formation that just grinded its way to the top on draws.
- [2016-06-29 2:23:19 AM] King Lear: A 5-4-1 diamond?
- [2016-06-29 2:23:23 AM] HT☆Rock: well the 4-3-3 and the 4-4-2 diamond are good ass formations
- [2016-06-29 2:23:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: the 4-3-3 is immensely modable
- [2016-06-29 2:24:34 AM] HT☆Rock: The narrow 4-4-2 is decently moddable too
- [2016-06-29 2:25:03 AM] Background Pony: 4-4-2 is the most balanced, I think. With subs you can turn it into pretty much anything.
- [2016-06-29 2:25:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: modularity in 4CC-rules PES is overrated
- [2016-06-29 2:25:57 AM] Gannon Murphy: >he says as he considers seriously not having CB subs
- [2016-06-29 2:26:12 AM] HT☆Rock: quiet you
- [2016-06-29 2:28:01 AM] King Lear: modularity in 4CC-rules PES is overratedI feel the same. My philosophy in general is that it's better to force your opponent to break your gameplan than to try and disrupt theirs. Since you can then focus on making something strong while they have to try and do much more. And if you're wrong at trying to counter it's much worse.
- [2016-06-29 2:28:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-06-29 2:28:32 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's a meta-mindgame that doesn't really exist outside the game theory of it
- [2016-06-29 2:29:00 AM | Edited 2:29:23 AM] HT☆Rock: but if your side isn't strong or simple to figure out, you're fucked
- [2016-06-29 2:29:54 AM] HT☆Rock: that's basically half the reason /fit/ murdered its way through Winter KOs
- [2016-06-29 2:29:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: then git gud
- [2016-06-29 2:30:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah because there were two good teams in Winter
- [2016-06-29 2:30:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: ./fit/ and /u/
- [2016-06-29 2:30:49 AM] Background Pony: I would argue that /gd/ should've made it a lot further
- [2016-06-29 2:31:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: ./gd/;s a buncha fuckin bullshit man
- [2016-06-29 2:31:05 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck them
- [2016-06-29 2:31:07 AM] King Lear: I think the semis as about as close as you can get.
- [2016-06-29 2:31:10 AM] Smugleaf: hon hon
- [2016-06-29 2:31:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: and fuck their stupid fucking meme magic
- [2016-06-29 2:32:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: //rant
- [2016-06-29 2:34:51 AM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 1:30 AM
- > yeah because there were two good teams in Winter
- HT☆Rock - Today 1:26 AM
- > quiet you
- [2016-06-29 4:48:00 AM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 1:21 AM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< But sillius is a cocksleeve for Myuer, so that did nothingnice meme
- [2016-06-29 4:49:36 AM] Myuer: Well, I noticed now the post on the general, I read now all the 500+ messages, so I'd give what I think in general.
- [2016-06-29 5:08:53 AM] Myuer: I'd be totally up for the 95 golds, actually. When I saw the moeshit cup and partecipated into that, I only liked the buff that the nomedals had actually. It seemed that nomedals were more able to stop more the golds thanks to this compression stats. The problem with our "stats ruleset" are the 99 players, which are totally godlike. (Which if you ask me, completely something that has sense, after all we are abusing a player with max stats aganist players with 77 stats in it.)
- Also about Harlock. For those who are wondering, it does indeed change stuff in the game. I looked into the code, I'd say the most noticeable stuff that I saw are those:
- 1) Makes reaction times go like crazy.
- 2) Changes Injury valuables with meaning that injuries could happen more, but at the same time he removed part of the original code (I still don't get this.)
- 3) GK animations are faster.
- About the AGLeague. I didn't agree about form 8, because it would mean that most of the players on the pitch would be always with good conditions, but at the same time as I said. I'd be totally up to see what happens with 95 golds. But I heard already some reports, well remind that those are first handed from me. Till the 5th july I have university exams, but after that I can go full testing mode for you if you want. As I was saying. The reports for now for the 95 golds are "With a sensible defense they can be stopped, but the defence usually swarm and takes it away.", kinda nothing new from what we knew. But those are reports with agleague settings so with harlock. I'd like to see 95 golds in vanilla 1.04.
- About the same ruleset, I don't know. Would be the safest bet, but I think you'd make people angry if we keep the same ruleset again.
- [2016-06-29 5:09:01 AM] Myuer: sorry for the wall of text
- [2016-06-29 5:10:35 AM] Myuer: Also, I'd like to remind that in some roles in PES16, nomedal players with 77 stats perform well. The midfield ones the most.
- [2016-06-29 6:08:00 AM] Myuer: Oh yeah, about PES17. A lot of people compared it to PES14.
- [2016-06-29 6:16:03 AM] Myuer: ah yeah, I forgot another thing about harlock
- [2016-06-29 6:16:31 AM] Myuer: pass completation is decreased, now matches will finish with most likely between 75-80% pass completation
- [2016-06-29 8:35:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: more pass completion is good because you force teams to work it in rather than ebin long counters
- [2016-06-29 8:36:40 AM] JohnnyBravo: I've always tried to pick styles that go against what most play. If you're playing the same thing as everyone else the margins of your team being better disappear quickly.
- [2016-06-29 8:40:52 AM] Myuer: Well in defence of that, there is still the possibility that the tacts/sliders weren't good enough, but I noticed that usually most of the matches ended with a max of 80-85% pass completation
- [2016-06-29 8:52:28 AM] Myuer: Also another thing, 2 positions registered were never ever considered?
- [2016-06-29 3:31:42 PM] HT☆Rock: It's been something on the fringes for two years and never implemented
- [2016-06-29 3:35:25 PM] HT☆Rock: Ebin long balls are also a well established tactic against possession and midfield heavy teams
- [2016-06-29 3:35:43 PM] HT☆Rock: The problem is when the fuckers never get stopped
- [2016-06-29 11:10:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT I'm setting up some teams for 80/90/95, should I do form 8 keepers you think
- [2016-06-29 11:11:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: may as well since that's the ruleset you used
- [2016-06-29 11:11:52 PM] Duke Silver: imo (which means nothing) I think Form 8 keepers is actually a change that matters
- [2016-06-29 11:12:05 PM] Duke Silver: That's a test cup where the ONLY difference was Form 8 keepers
- [2016-06-29 11:12:18 PM] HT☆Rock: Within one Standard Deviation, fam
- [2016-06-29 11:12:20 PM] Duke Silver: And all-green conditions - as I understand, Form also affects condition
- [2016-06-29 11:12:26 PM] HT☆Rock: that's not a meaningful difference
- [2016-06-29 11:12:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah that's statistically insignificant
- [2016-06-29 11:12:43 PM | Edited 11:12:46 PM] HT☆Rock: sounds good, JB
- [2016-06-29 11:13:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: we've always treated form like a purely condition influencing stat duke
- [2016-06-29 11:13:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: I understand there may be other mechanics but that's the primary thing looked at with it
- [2016-06-29 11:14:19 PM] Duke Silver: Sure. I'm just here to give you the data that I have.
- [2016-06-29 11:21:46 PM] Duke Silver: So, what are our goals here? What do you guys feel is important from what we end up with? A certain number of Goals per game, shots per game, On Target shots per goal?
- [2016-06-29 11:22:10 PM] Duke Silver: I mean there are like 15 different statistics that are going to be relevant to how 'exciting' a game is
- [2016-06-29 11:24:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: /fit/ and /m/ - cup winners, one defensive one offensive
- /trv/ - a very offensive team, promoted
- /o/ - possession based team, promoted
- /b/ - relegated 4-4-2
- /po/ - 1 striker, aborted
- [2016-06-29 11:24:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: thoughts?
- [2016-06-29 11:25:06 PM] Duke Silver: For a variety of teams? It seems fair. I've been doing Top 8 Winter / Top 8 Spring. Are you looking for a certain number of games?
- [2016-06-29 11:25:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd rather not just use top teams for this
- [2016-06-29 11:25:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: maybe /a/ for a shit 4-4-2 instead of /b/'s 4 cb's
- [2016-06-29 11:26:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: maybe use group 3rd place Spring teams and Pot 2 summer teams
- [2016-06-29 11:26:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: so you've got "almost good"
- [2016-06-29 11:26:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: or like top four from each of those groups, then top four in Spring and Winter
- [2016-06-29 11:36:53 PM] Duke Silver: So, how important is it that we're testing with the same teams and the same sample size? Because if it is at all, >we should probably get a consensus on that pretty quickly.
- [2016-06-29 11:37:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was figuring I should do different teams than HT to see a greater variety
- [2016-06-29 11:37:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: testing for consistency is less useful than that imo
- [2016-06-29 11:41:51 PM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 11:24 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< /fit/ and /m/ - cup winners, one defensive one offensive
- /trv/ - a very offensive team, promoted
- /o/ - possession based team, promoted
- /b/ - relegated 4-4-2
- /po/ - 1 striker, aborted
- thoughts?seems good to me
- [2016-06-29 11:42:11 PM] Myuer: there is a fluid formation to put there too?
- [2016-06-29 11:42:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: revised
- winter knockouts: /fit/, /tv/, /s/
- spring knockouts: /trv/, /wg/, /lit/
- neither: /po/, /b/
- [2016-06-29 11:42:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: more variety
- [2016-06-29 11:42:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sounds good
- [2016-06-29 11:42:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh I can add like /mu/ but they're the mother of all outliers
- [2016-06-29 11:42:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: >/mu/
- [2016-06-29 11:42:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: IT
- [2016-06-29 11:42:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: JUST
- [2016-06-29 11:42:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: WORLS
- [2016-06-29 11:42:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: WORKS
- [2016-06-29 11:43:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
- [2016-06-29 11:43:29 PM] Myuer: we know carma, but I thought that adding a fluid in a test cup would be good, no team in fetus and babbies ran fluid right?
- [2016-06-29 11:43:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: don't think so
- [2016-06-29 11:43:57 PM] Myuer: Ah yeah /v/, but it is like taking /u/ with different sliders
- [2016-06-29 11:44:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: /vr/ but it's not in the default
- [2016-06-29 11:44:26 PM] King Lear: There were other babby teams that used it at some point though, I seem to recall seeing it a bit.
- [2016-06-29 11:44:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: /jp/
- [2016-06-29 11:44:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: /a/ and /c/ did what /u/ did but sucked at it
- [2016-06-29 11:44:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: (the whole 4-1-3-2/4-3-1-2 shift)
- [2016-06-29 11:45:04 PM] Myuer: Never checked thier fluid, inb4 they copied the one on the wiki
- [2016-06-29 11:46:22 PM] Myuer: well, it's not a must adding a fluid in any case, I was only suggesting
- [2016-06-29 11:46:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think it's a big enough of a difference to matter in this context
- [2016-06-29 11:47:07 PM] Myuer: yup
- [2016-06-29 11:47:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-06-29 11:52:56 PM] Myuer: Gannon Murphy = Carma'
- [2016-06-29 11:52:57 PM] Myuer: ?*
- [2016-06-29 11:54:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-06-29 11:56:24 PM] King Lear: Carma has the raddest name, like, ever.
- [2016-06-29 11:56:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: for a potato nigger
- [2016-06-30 5:18:20 AM | Edited 5:19:09 AM] Background Pony: What's a specific rulechange people want to see tested? I'll run it on the FT2 /mlp/ cup thing, so we can compare stats between that and vanilla 1.04
- [2016-06-30 9:55:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: do you want to try 80/90/95 too bgp? that would make 19 total teams tested on it if you have those 6.
- [2016-06-30 9:55:57 AM] Background Pony: sure
- [2016-06-30 9:56:33 AM] Background Pony: together with patch 1.04 and no other patches/buffs, right?
- [2016-06-30 9:57:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: Yeah vanilla 1.04
- [2016-06-30 9:58:13 AM] JohnnyBravo: Oh and form 8 keepers too because ht did that
- [2016-06-30 10:16:45 AM] Myuer: results so far JB?
- [2016-06-30 10:17:05 AM] JohnnyBravo: I made a lot of the teams last night
- [2016-06-30 10:17:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: I have work today and then I'll get started
- [2016-06-30 10:17:18 AM] Myuer: I'll do something next week, till the 5th of july I'm pretty busy
- [2016-06-30 10:17:30 AM] Myuer: (damn university)
- [2016-06-30 10:17:38 AM] Background Pony: expect stats from me in a few days. I want to make sure I can watch the games as well, so I can see what the changes do to gameplay.
- [2016-06-30 10:17:53 AM] Background Pony: Not just run the games in the background and compile stats.
- [2016-06-30 10:18:02 AM] JohnnyBravo: mhm, same
- [2016-06-30 10:18:32 AM] Myuer: kinda normal to do I'd say
- [2016-06-30 10:19:16 AM] Myuer: I can't do much for now because I better study for those 2 exams.
- [2016-06-30 10:19:23 AM] Background Pony: during normal testing you repeat the same game over and over, so I just watch two or three, and then run the rest in the background while I do other things
- [2016-06-30 11:27:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pMbDz/583d38aec6.jpg
- [2016-06-30 11:27:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: good job, good effort
- [2016-06-30 11:38:51 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm)
- [2016-06-30 11:39:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pMbKw/b460470999.jpg this was a fucking awful game to watch
- [2016-06-30 11:39:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: (shrug)
- [2016-06-30 11:39:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
- [2016-06-30 11:39:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: what's that emote
- [2016-06-30 11:40:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm not skype literate enough sometimes D:
- [2016-06-30 11:41:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's this one
- [2016-06-30 11:41:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: (klopp)
- [2016-06-30 11:41:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
- [2016-06-30 11:44:36 PM] Collie Bro: >flopp
- [2016-07-01 1:08:52 AM | Removed 1:09:20 AM] Background Pony: This message has been removed.
- [2016-07-01 1:09:12 AM | Edited 1:09:49 AM] Background Pony: wrong chat, was supposed to go in Overwatch
- [2016-07-01 1:10:03 AM] Collie Bro: >BGP
- [2016-07-01 1:10:11 AM] HT☆Rock: "overwatch"
- [2016-07-01 1:10:31 AM] Collie Bro: so now we have undermeme and overmeme, what's next?
- [2016-07-01 1:11:01 AM] Background Pony: inbetweenwatch?
- [2016-07-01 1:11:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: inbetwmeme
- [2016-07-01 1:52:14 AM] King Lear: Nomo wants to know what height abuse should be for /vg/L.
- [2016-07-01 1:52:53 AM] Collie Bro: Let's just keep it as is
- [2016-07-01 1:53:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: I would suggest just moving the height brackets up 5cm
- [2016-07-01 1:53:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: just to try something new
- [2016-07-01 1:53:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: so 170-210cm instead of 165-205
- [2016-07-01 1:53:30 AM] Collie Bro: I'm fine with that too actually
- [2016-07-01 1:54:05 AM] Smugleaf: [July 1, 2016 1:53 AM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< so 170-210cm instead of 165-205175 is better
- [2016-07-01 1:54:08 AM] Background Pony: does that actually make a difference? It'll be the same, except players will all be slightly larger
- [2016-07-01 1:54:27 AM] Smugleaf: I don't think it's a gameplay thing, but more a flexibility thing
- [2016-07-01 1:54:37 AM] Smugleaf: I recall Tony was trying to get it changed to this
- [2016-07-01 1:54:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: I have a few sneaking suspicions
- [2016-07-01 1:54:56 AM] Smugleaf: Because a lot of managers will refuse to play their manlets and those players won't get gametime
- [2016-07-01 1:55:01 AM] Smugleaf: Which is a bit shit
- [2016-07-01 1:55:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-01 1:55:19 AM] Smugleaf: I think people were thinking about going through with it, then lol /out/ happened
- [2016-07-01 1:55:26 AM] Smugleaf: 3rd place with a 165 manlet gold
- [2016-07-01 1:55:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: again, I have some suspicions
- [2016-07-01 1:56:16 AM] Background Pony: that was a fox in the box, though. They dont have to be big, they just have to be in the right place at the right time.
- [2016-07-01 1:56:29 AM] Smugleaf: 175-179: 6 Players
- 180-184: 7 Players
- 185-189: 6 Players
- [2016-07-01 1:56:37 AM] Smugleaf: I think it's nice and well rounded anyway
- [2016-07-01 1:56:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I wouldn't mind that
- [2016-07-01 1:56:50 AM] Background Pony: jeah, I remember tony mentioning something like that
- [2016-07-01 1:57:00 AM] King Lear: Let's kill the manletiest manlet.
- [2016-07-01 1:57:23 AM] Background Pony: what if people want manlets because of "reasons"?
- [2016-07-01 1:57:32 AM] Smugleaf: [July 1, 2016 1:57 AM] King Lear:
- <<< Let's kill the manletiest manlet.>1 player
- [2016-07-01 1:57:36 AM] Smugleaf: That's a bit pointless
- [2016-07-01 1:57:44 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's just bump the bottom slot up to 175cm, and remove the bottom limit on that bracket
- [2016-07-01 1:57:45 AM] Smugleaf: I'd move up the bottom three
- [2016-07-01 1:58:23 AM] Smugleaf: and remove the bottom limit on that bracket?
- [2016-07-01 1:58:49 AM] Background Pony: [July 1, 2016 1:56 AM] Smugleaf:
- <<< 175-179: 6 Players
- 180-184: 7 Players
- 185-189: 6 Playerswhat about the remaining four? Do they get rolled into the 185-189 bracket if a team doesnt height abuse (same as now)?
- [2016-07-01 1:58:59 AM] Smugleaf: Oh wait
- [2016-07-01 1:59:12 AM] Smugleaf: It's 185-189: 10 Players
- [2016-07-01 1:59:13 AM] Smugleaf: derp
- [2016-07-01 1:59:20 AM] Smugleaf: I've got height abuse on the mind
- [2016-07-01 1:59:50 AM] Smugleaf: It's 6 if you run height abuse, with 190-194: 2, 195-199: 1, 200-205: 1
- [2016-07-01 2:00:16 AM] Background Pony: removing the bottom limit on manlets with a default of 175 seems fine to me, but it shouldnt give extra height that you can spend on other players, for obvious reasons
- [2016-07-01 2:00:30 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah
- [2016-07-01 2:01:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: like this yeah? http://puu.sh/pMjdJ/7658109eb1.png
- [2016-07-01 2:01:44 AM] Background Pony: you will probably see a lot less perma bench players
- [2016-07-01 2:02:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: or do you want to eliminate both bottom brackets?
- [2016-07-01 2:03:49 AM] Gannon Murphy: http://puu.sh/pMjjR/075b76c63f.png how about this
- [2016-07-01 2:04:04 AM] Smugleaf: I was just about to say
- [2016-07-01 2:04:08 AM] Smugleaf: That one is better
- [2016-07-01 2:05:00 AM] Smugleaf: I'd say, for the overall height limit, the bottom bracket has no rules and does not affect the others
- [2016-07-01 2:05:00 AM] Background Pony: yes, but I would stress that the default height for that bracket is 175, and reducing height below it will not give you bonus height to spend on other players
- [2016-07-01 2:05:16 AM] Smugleaf: So you can have all players on 155 or 179 if you please
- [2016-07-01 2:05:31 AM] Smugleaf: And like BGP says, it doesn't give you more or less bonus height for the other brackets
- [2016-07-01 2:05:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: it shouldn't matter that much
- [2016-07-01 2:05:36 AM] Smugleaf: Which stay the same as current
- [2016-07-01 2:05:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: because of the limits on the other two brackets
- [2016-07-01 2:05:41 AM] Smugleaf: It would matter tbh
- [2016-07-01 2:05:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: well
- [2016-07-01 2:06:10 AM] Smugleaf: So we'd need to make a ruling like I just said, otherwise teams could save up to 20 height bonus on each manlet player
- [2016-07-01 2:06:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: it should be allotted as if they're default 170cm
- [2016-07-01 2:06:17 AM] Smugleaf: And make our situation even worse
- [2016-07-01 2:06:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: we have a cumulative height rule for that reason
- [2016-07-01 2:06:27 AM] Background Pony: you could have a couple perma benchers at 155 and use their missing height to make every other player as tall as possible
- [2016-07-01 2:06:36 AM] Smugleaf: ^
- [2016-07-01 2:06:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: well if that's your will then so be it
- [2016-07-01 2:06:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's not the most appealing option
- [2016-07-01 2:06:52 AM] Smugleaf: I would still stick to what I said
- [2016-07-01 2:07:18 AM] Smugleaf: Two different ruling for the 155-179 and 180-205 bracket split
- [2016-07-01 2:07:30 AM] Smugleaf: 180-205 brackets stick to the current rules
- [2016-07-01 2:07:41 AM] Smugleaf: 155-179 are free to do whatever
- [2016-07-01 2:08:48 AM | Edited 2:09:03 AM] Background Pony: basically you have to avoid changing things in a way that might be cheeseable, or you risk turning the cup into "whichever teams figures out how to cheese it first, wins"
- [2016-07-01 2:09:05 AM] HT☆Rock: like every system change cup
- [2016-07-01 2:09:23 AM] Background Pony: I assume that's why the rules haven't changed in such a long time
- [2016-07-01 2:09:51 AM] HT☆Rock: But on height abuse: you could just get rid of the free floating extra CM if you're shifting levels up or you could have the height shifts only activate within each bracket
- [2016-07-01 2:10:06 AM] HT☆Rock: So you can't make supermanlets to make other dudes gigantic
- [2016-07-01 2:10:43 AM] Background Pony: just getting rid of the 165 and 170 bracket, rolling the three players into 175 seems like a good idea, though, and it should result in more meme diversity on the pitch
- [2016-07-01 2:10:55 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm down with that
- [2016-07-01 2:11:01 AM] HT☆Rock: just go five 175s
- [2016-07-01 2:11:03 AM] Smugleaf: tbh I just prefer having a simple 175-179 bracket rather than the 155
- [2016-07-01 2:11:09 AM] HT☆Rock: or is it six?
- [2016-07-01 2:11:09 AM] Background Pony: with an 'aesthetic pardon' for teams who want ultra manlets, for whatever reason
- [2016-07-01 2:11:11 AM] Smugleaf: 6
- [2016-07-01 2:11:54 AM] HT☆Rock: the aesthetic pardon can be baked in with the in-bracket height allocation
- [2016-07-01 2:12:15 AM] HT☆Rock: so for instance, you have 6 179 and under players
- [2016-07-01 2:12:23 AM] HT☆Rock: They start at 175
- [2016-07-01 2:12:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: why can't we just have the total height limit again
- [2016-07-01 2:12:43 AM] HT☆Rock: Shut up I'm explaining things
- [2016-07-01 2:13:15 AM] HT☆Rock: And because the total height limit is pretty much just there because reasons
- [2016-07-01 2:13:21 AM] HT☆Rock: with the brackets and all
- [2016-07-01 2:14:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean in order to have 10 189cm players, you get 25cm to play with to begin with, so that's 6 of them plus 1cm on a seventh, so you have three manlets get shortened by 3, 4, and 4 cm respectively to 166 and 167cm
- [2016-07-01 2:14:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: or you can average them to 175, where they all stay about 170
- [2016-07-01 2:14:46 AM] Background Pony: total height would change to 4180
- [2016-07-01 2:15:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: here's my tentative suggestion http://puu.sh/pMjNd/650850aaea.png
- [2016-07-01 2:15:48 AM | Edited 2:16:01 AM] Background Pony: (6 x 175 + 7 x 180 + 10 x 185) + 20 bonus cm = 4180
- [2016-07-01 2:15:56 AM] Gannon Murphy: I udes 170
- [2016-07-01 2:15:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: used*
- [2016-07-01 2:17:57 AM] HT☆Rock: Yeah, outside of the 175 bracket, there's not really enough flow space to do my idea
- [2016-07-01 2:18:00 AM] HT☆Rock: thinking about it
- [2016-07-01 2:18:11 AM] HT☆Rock: Especially on green heights
- [2016-07-01 2:19:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: unless we want to add a cap back in at the bottom
- [2016-07-01 2:19:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean min/maxing is something people have done since the beginning of time
- [2016-07-01 2:20:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: you'd be hard pressed to get rid of it without saying "your golds will be 205cm, and 200cm, your silvers will be 195cm
- [2016-07-01 2:20:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: etc
- [2016-07-01 2:21:37 AM] HT☆Rock: honestly, the nerf itself does a good job at preventing people from doing that
- [2016-07-01 2:21:43 AM] HT☆Rock: It's a mental deterrent
- [2016-07-01 2:21:56 AM] HT☆Rock: at least in the current system
- [2016-07-01 2:22:33 AM] Gannon Murphy: personally I don't see any reason why a manager would throw away a player for a few extra centimeters of height somewhere else
- [2016-07-01 2:22:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: and I'm a "starters or bust" kinda manager
- [2016-07-01 2:24:04 AM] King Lear: I believe it was Winter 15 /ck/ that ran height abuse for one player than kept the other three permanently on the bench. They made top 4.
- [2016-07-01 2:24:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah well there's options
- [2016-07-01 2:26:00 AM] King Lear: Options are a good thing.
- [2016-07-01 2:26:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: precisely
- [2016-07-01 2:27:20 AM] Smugleaf: You know it's funny we're talking about this all
- [2016-07-01 2:27:27 AM] Smugleaf: Because I just exported my /4ccg/ export
- [2016-07-01 2:27:36 AM] Smugleaf: And I have a 165 player I plan on never using
- [2016-07-01 2:27:44 AM] Smugleaf: And I made him 165 so I don't have to use him
- [2016-07-01 2:27:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: always
- [2016-07-01 2:27:53 AM] Smugleaf: Because >MayDave
- [2016-07-01 2:29:12 AM] Background Pony: what are the current stat penalties on height abuse players?
- [2016-07-01 2:29:36 AM] Smugleaf: -3, -4, -5
- [2016-07-01 2:31:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'd be down to bump that up to -2, -3. -4
- [2016-07-01 2:31:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: just because there's only ever a few teams in a cup using it
- [2016-07-01 2:31:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: so incentivizing it a little more would be nice
- [2016-07-01 2:31:30 AM] Smugleaf: I'd prefer that
- [2016-07-01 2:31:38 AM] Smugleaf: But mostly because it calms my autism :^]
- [2016-07-01 2:31:52 AM] Smugleaf: Seriously, it always bugged me that it was 74, 84, 94
- [2016-07-01 2:31:58 AM] Smugleaf: Instead of 75, 85, 95
- [2016-07-01 2:32:04 AM] Smugleaf: 5 is a more even number
- [2016-07-01 2:32:05 AM] Smugleaf: reeeee
- [2016-07-01 2:32:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-07-01 2:32:16 AM] King Lear: The thing is are they running it because it's not worth it or because nobody's found what breaks it?
- [2016-07-01 2:32:23 AM] HT☆Rock: Second
- [2016-07-01 2:32:25 AM] Smugleaf: Anyway, going below the 5 did deter me too
- [2016-07-01 2:32:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: what breaks it?
- [2016-07-01 2:32:31 AM] Smugleaf: Because it seemed like a lot
- [2016-07-01 2:32:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: people don't use it because Boris is the only person who believes in height abuse still
- [2016-07-01 2:32:47 AM] King Lear: Like some people will never run it because there's a huge mental block against lowering your stats.
- [2016-07-01 2:32:53 AM] HT☆Rock: It's called "very large gold striker, fuck the rest"
- [2016-07-01 2:33:00 AM] HT☆Rock: (fuck you erf snek)
- [2016-07-01 2:33:12 AM] HT☆Rock: But yes, the main thing is a mental deterrent
- [2016-07-01 2:33:26 AM] HT☆Rock: dropping five is more scary than actually running a gold that is down five
- [2016-07-01 2:34:01 AM] King Lear: If you keep tipping the scales towards height abuse then at some point the people who do run it will crack a cup in half.
- [2016-07-01 2:34:09 AM] Smugleaf: VERY large striker scoring at incredible hihg height
- [2016-07-01 2:37:16 AM] King Lear: Heavenly_Pond - Today at 2:32 AM
- Height abuse is a crutch
- /an/ will never succumb to it
- Point about it being a mental block right here.
- [2016-07-01 2:37:41 AM | Edited 2:38:21 AM] Smugleaf: Didn't /tf2g/ come last in the VGL
- [2016-07-01 2:38:10 AM] King Lear: There's a reason we got the other /an/ manager in here.
- [2016-07-01 2:38:25 AM] Smugleaf: :^]
- [2016-07-01 2:38:45 AM] Background Pony: hang on, autism incoming
- [2016-07-01 2:38:52 AM] Background Pony: what do you guys think about this:
- [2016-07-01 2:38:53 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pMkKx/86f0fc3d3e.png
- [2016-07-01 2:39:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
- [2016-07-01 2:39:26 AM] Background Pony: the "- to all stats" thing is placeholder
- [2016-07-01 2:39:52 AM] Smugleaf: I like the idea but >-6 is enough to deter anyone
- [2016-07-01 2:40:00 AM] Smugleaf: But yeah, that's pretty cool
- [2016-07-01 2:40:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-01 2:40:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: -5 deters most people
- [2016-07-01 2:40:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: -6 would deter everyone
- [2016-07-01 2:40:54 AM] Smugleaf: I've always wanted the top bracket to be more flexible
- [2016-07-01 2:40:58 AM] Smugleaf: I miss the old tall dudes
- [2016-07-01 2:41:13 AM] Smugleaf: But would never use it because I'd have to sacrifice 4 players to nerfs
- [2016-07-01 2:41:49 AM] Smugleaf: But I guess that could be 'abuseble' if I was allowed to make only one player 205 and the rest sub 189
- [2016-07-01 2:44:48 AM] Background Pony: I personally haven't really messed with height abuse, but I know some teams like their tall keepers. Thing is, if you want to reduce manlet perma benchers, you should also look at the height abuse rules, because AFAIK all teams that used it turned their 190cm players into benchwarmers
- [2016-07-01 2:45:12 AM] Smugleaf: Yep
- [2016-07-01 2:45:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: in PES15 I used 194cm Keepers
- [2016-07-01 2:45:23 AM] Smugleaf: That's actually another thing I have planned
- [2016-07-01 2:45:29 AM] Smugleaf: I have 3 GKs on /4ccg/
- [2016-07-01 2:45:32 AM] Smugleaf: 205, 190, 190
- [2016-07-01 2:45:38 AM] Smugleaf: Guess which ones aren't getting played
- [2016-07-01 2:45:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm dropping the third GK because he literally never plays
- [2016-07-01 2:46:06 AM] Smugleaf: I think BGP is on the right tracks with different height systems
- [2016-07-01 2:46:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: I ran 194,194,180 in 15
- [2016-07-01 2:46:22 AM] Smugleaf: The problem with height abuse is that not everyone wants all four players to be tall/nerfed
- [2016-07-01 2:46:41 AM] Smugleaf: Most are happy with a tall striker and GK
- [2016-07-01 2:46:46 AM] Smugleaf: And the other two can fuck off
- [2016-07-01 2:46:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: how about we just get rid of the red/green shit and just do bottom to top no nerfs
- [2016-07-01 2:46:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: go back to before the split
- [2016-07-01 2:47:18 AM] Smugleaf: If only
- [2016-07-01 2:47:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: well why not?
- [2016-07-01 2:47:32 AM] Smugleaf: We'd go back to square one
- [2016-07-01 2:47:35 AM] Background Pony: what with how common lofted throughballs are, allowing people to use apehoop gold medal strikers again would probably not be a good idea
- [2016-07-01 2:47:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmm, yeah I guess
- [2016-07-01 2:47:46 AM] Smugleaf: The reason for the Green/Red was because Tom/CP
- [2016-07-01 2:47:52 AM] Smugleaf: They just used tall players
- [2016-07-01 2:48:13 AM] Smugleaf: Which is why I want to cut down the gap by as much as possible
- [2016-07-01 2:48:17 AM] Smugleaf: So it doesn't matter too much
- [2016-07-01 2:48:27 AM] Smugleaf: Because people still play tall players over 165, etc
- [2016-07-01 2:48:38 AM] Smugleaf: whereas 175 isn't too bad in the end
- [2016-07-01 2:48:44 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-01 2:49:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: what if we did height by position
- [2016-07-01 2:49:24 AM] Background Pony: 175~179 is a good bracket. Anything lower and the player just become too undependable.
- [2016-07-01 2:49:33 AM] Smugleaf: mmhmm
- [2016-07-01 2:49:39 AM] Background Pony: which is why rolling those brackets into 175 is a good idea
- [2016-07-01 2:49:57 AM] Smugleaf: 165-174 always made me go 'urgh, which players do I not want to play'
- [2016-07-01 2:49:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: like all the CFs on a team get a height, all the Wingers/SSs get the same height, all the AMFs get the same height, CMFs, DMFs, Fullbacks, CBs, Keepers
- [2016-07-01 2:50:24 AM] Background Pony: I think that's too autistic, and impossible to balance well with the little time we have
- [2016-07-01 2:50:37 AM] Smugleaf: wew
- [2016-07-01 2:50:42 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah that's a bit extreme
- [2016-07-01 2:51:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: like this, but you can mix around the heights however you like http://puu.sh/pMlgt/966b1484b9.png
- [2016-07-01 2:51:53 AM] Gannon Murphy: so that all the players in each position are the same hiehgt, and all the positions are different heights
- [2016-07-01 2:52:19 AM] Background Pony: >205cm CFs vs 175 cm CBs
- [2016-07-01 2:52:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: no I'm saying them anagers choose
- [2016-07-01 2:52:31 AM] Smugleaf: >CB 175
- [2016-07-01 2:52:33 AM] Smugleaf: what
- [2016-07-01 2:52:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: say they want 205cm goalies, and 170cm DMFs or somthine
- [2016-07-01 2:52:48 AM] Smugleaf: Also no, that would never work
- [2016-07-01 2:52:55 AM] Smugleaf: Because you tend to only have one CF
- [2016-07-01 2:53:00 AM] Smugleaf: But like, 5 CBs at least
- [2016-07-01 2:53:07 AM] Smugleaf: And you could have 5 205 players
- [2016-07-01 2:53:12 AM] Smugleaf: If I'm understanding this right
- [2016-07-01 2:53:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-01 2:53:36 AM] Smugleaf: I tend to set out my heights like that to be fair
- [2016-07-01 2:53:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: it'd have to be simplified though, because some teams don't play every position
- [2016-07-01 2:53:48 AM] Smugleaf: But it wouldn't work that way
- [2016-07-01 2:53:56 AM] Gannon Murphy: so like, idk, forwards, mids, defenders or something
- [2016-07-01 2:53:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: eugh nvm
- [2016-07-01 2:56:53 AM] King Lear: You'd have to ban OOP players as well.
- [2016-07-01 2:56:58 AM] King Lear: It'd be a mess.
- [2016-07-01 2:57:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah the more I think about it the worse it gets
- [2016-07-01 3:39:15 AM] Smugleaf: >10 games vs /block/ the past day (including the one on stream)
- >10-0-0 record
- >change /4ccg/ stats to 8 form on everyone because that's apparently an /ag/L thing
- >lose 4-0 and all but two players got a 5.5
- [2016-07-01 3:39:21 AM] Smugleaf: Does form change behaviour?
- [2016-07-01 3:39:54 AM] Smugleaf: I noticed that the players considerably changed behaviour and kept trying to skill past the other team rather than passing like they were before
- [2016-07-01 3:40:45 AM] Smugleaf: It's almost as if they were more confident than before, but sucked ass and kept getting caught out
- [2016-07-01 3:41:31 AM] HT☆Rock: Form nebulously changes performance
- [2016-07-01 3:41:45 AM] HT☆Rock: but I'd test that more to make sure it's not a black swan event
- [2016-07-01 3:46:05 AM] Smugleaf: All I know about form is that it changes the consistency of conditions
- [2016-07-01 3:46:09 AM] Smugleaf: Or at least it did
- [2016-07-01 3:48:10 AM] HT☆Rock: conditions change performance
- [2016-07-01 3:48:32 AM] Smugleaf: I test on all green
- [2016-07-01 3:52:41 AM] Smugleaf: http://puu.sh/pMnMB/b1bb5bb354.png
- [2016-07-01 3:52:42 AM] Smugleaf: Hmm
- [2016-07-01 3:52:55 AM] Smugleaf: The 77s are getting overly confident and just shooting when they shouldn't
- [2016-07-01 3:53:00 AM] Smugleaf: Hence the amount of saves
- [2016-07-01 3:53:24 AM] Smugleaf: /block/ are still on 4
- [2016-07-01 3:56:45 AM] Smugleaf: >CB heads it into his own net
- [2016-07-01 3:56:46 AM] Smugleaf: ???
- [2016-07-01 4:57:58 AM] Myuer: so apparently
- [2016-07-01 4:58:14 AM] Myuer: I am the only one ok with the current height bracket rules, right?
- [2016-07-01 5:09:20 AM] Smugleaf: It's fine gameplay wise
- [2016-07-01 5:09:56 AM] Smugleaf: But it leaves a lot of perma bench players which is eh
- [2016-07-01 5:10:26 AM] Smugleaf: /u/ most recently did it with their GKs
- [2016-07-01 5:13:49 AM] Myuer: well madokami was with height abuse as well
- [2016-07-01 5:14:19 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah, that's our point
- [2016-07-01 5:14:35 AM] Smugleaf: Height abuse led to neglected players
- [2016-07-01 5:14:40 AM] Myuer: Also hardly there is a reason to sub out the GK, at least imo
- [2016-07-01 5:14:51 AM] Smugleaf: Precisely
- [2016-07-01 5:14:57 AM] Myuer: You have one extra in the bench only in the most rare cases
- [2016-07-01 5:15:30 AM] Smugleaf: I was going to do it with /gd/
- [2016-07-01 5:15:46 AM] Smugleaf: But didn't like the nerfs
- [2016-07-01 5:15:48 AM] Myuer: this is why Madokami gets never subbed out
- [2016-07-01 5:16:00 AM] Myuer: even with purple the player plays
- [2016-07-01 5:16:10 AM] Myuer: (also for memes, but whatever)
- [2016-07-01 5:16:34 AM] Myuer: infact I never get why some teams has 3 gk
- [2016-07-01 5:16:43 AM] Smugleaf: Neither
- [2016-07-01 5:17:02 AM] Smugleaf: /4ccg/ has it for a name theme
- [2016-07-01 5:17:19 AM] Smugleaf: They are all circlejerks
- [2016-07-01 5:17:39 AM] Smugleaf: But I wouldn't do it in a cup
- [2016-07-01 5:18:39 AM] Myuer: infact I recall in winter we played a match with Madokami in purple condition
- [2016-07-01 5:18:46 AM] Myuer: it was the QF or the semifinal probably
- [2016-07-01 5:21:49 AM] Myuer: as long that the 4/4 foot weak accuracy is reserved for one bracket, you can change stuff around with it
- [2016-07-02 1:15:37 PM] Background Pony: Here are the tests I've ran (compared to the original FT2 on vanilla 1.04):
- [2016-07-02 1:15:39 PM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pNQOQ/fe9a7bfa3e.png
- [2016-07-02 1:16:55 PM] Background Pony: Overall I'd say I'm not a big fan. The amount of shots has been greatly reduced, but the amount of goals has stayed about the same.
- [2016-07-02 1:17:24 PM] Background Pony: There are less saves, but this is because there were less shots, and defenders blocked more shots as well.
- [2016-07-02 1:17:52 PM] Background Pony: defenders on average do their jobs better, but this also means goals tend to be very samey.
- [2016-07-02 1:18:54 PM] Background Pony: There were zero headers, or goals scored from corners. Lofted crosses were not dangerous at all.
- [2016-07-02 1:19:28 PM] Background Pony: On the plus side, the effectiveness from lofted throughballs was reduced by a lot as well.
- [2016-07-02 1:19:57 PM] Background Pony: Especially the very long 'hail mary' lofted throughballs
- [2016-07-02 1:21:41 PM] Background Pony: Goals result from good passing play in/around the box, short, low throughpasses and the occasional blooter from the edge of the box.
- [2016-07-02 1:22:07 PM] Background Pony: but as I said, no headers, no acrobatic goals or amazing volleys.
- [2016-07-02 1:22:37 PM | Edited 1:22:51 PM] Background Pony: nerfing golds didn't really reduce their accuracy, but it reduced their style
- [2016-07-02 2:59:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: what formations were the teams in these tests?
- [2016-07-02 3:00:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: becase "Goals result from good passing play in/around the box" is just 4-3-3winslol
- [2016-07-02 3:00:56 PM] Myuer: Also the GK efficiency was worse
- [2016-07-02 3:01:04 PM] Gannon Murphy: so if that's the kind of play that wins games with this setup, then that just biases the game more toward 4-3-3
- [2016-07-02 3:26:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 12:18 PM
- > There were zero headers, or goals scored from corners. Lofted crosses were not dangerous at all.
- Here I question your card setup/corner takers, as this didn't come up in my tests at all
- [2016-07-02 3:30:07 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 12:22 PM
- > but as I said, no headers, no acrobatic goals or amazing volleys.
- Again, card setup. Did any of your golds have Heel Trick/Acrobatic Finishing/Heading, because those actually matter worth a damn in 95/90/80
- [2016-07-02 3:31:11 PM | Edited 3:31:59 PM] HT☆Rock: GK Efficiency got worse as they faced fewer, but more accurate shots, Myuer
- [2016-07-02 3:32:09 PM] Myuer: ???
- [2016-07-02 3:32:14 PM] Myuer: ah ok
- [2016-07-02 3:32:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: we don't want to reduce shots though
- [2016-07-02 3:32:18 PM] Myuer: now I saw the edit
- [2016-07-02 3:32:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: we want to reduce goals/shots
- [2016-07-02 3:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 2:32 PM
- > we want to reduce goals
- There we go
- [2016-07-02 3:33:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Not at the expense of quality we dont
- [2016-07-02 3:36:11 PM] HT☆Rock: Again, card choice
- [2016-07-02 3:36:36 PM] HT☆Rock: I don't know what happy bullshit the horsefuckers are running, so it's hard to use them as a control
- [2016-07-02 3:36:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: also I'd like to point out that the goals per game in both of those series of tests is significantly lower than we've seen in Spring and VGL
- [2016-07-02 3:37:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: which is to say retarded formations will always have more goals
- [2016-07-02 3:37:46 PM] HT☆Rock: But, going off the data: the least prolific team in the horsefucker league on vanilla got more prolific, at the expense of several more prolific vanilla teams having drastically reduced GF
- [2016-07-02 3:38:30 PM] HT☆Rock: /cdf/ scored almost half the goals they did in vanilla
- [2016-07-02 3:38:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: My stat nerf cup is ongoing but ive written a good bit. I'll see what the rest of the games are like.
- [2016-07-02 3:39:34 PM] HT☆Rock: /egg/, /wdb/ and /pnk/ got better goals wise, the others got worse
- [2016-07-02 6:03:10 PM] Background Pony: [July 2, 2016 2:59 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< what formations were the teams in these tests?a variety of 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 3-4-3, and a 5-4-1
- [2016-07-02 6:03:34 PM] Background Pony: Im not going to give away the exact formations and/or cards, for obvious reasons.
- [2016-07-02 6:03:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: of course, but you would say they're all functional at defense, yes?
- [2016-07-02 6:04:12 PM] HT☆Rock: well we can't use those as anything but broad data points then
- [2016-07-02 6:04:14 PM] Background Pony: There's variety in there, though. There are teams using acrobatic finishing, and teams that set up players for crosses.
- [2016-07-02 6:04:41 PM] HT☆Rock: because we don't know if you just suck at tactics or if the card setups are optimal or anything
- [2016-07-02 6:04:52 PM] HT☆Rock: this is why I suggested using already established teams
- [2016-07-02 6:05:08 PM] HT☆Rock: in the previous cups
- [2016-07-02 6:05:18 PM] Background Pony: our whole point was variety, because FT1 had basically just a bunch of 3-5-2s and a wide 4-2-2-2, and the wide 4-2-2-2 rekt all of them, but then did terrible in the cup because there were no "3-5-2"s
- [2016-07-02 6:05:52 PM] Background Pony: I think our past performance should be enough of an indicator that we do not suck at tactics, but whatever
- [2016-07-02 6:06:18 PM] HT☆Rock: >winter
- [2016-07-02 6:06:19 PM] HT☆Rock: (chuckle)
- [2016-07-02 6:06:43 PM] HT☆Rock: but it's a change in system, a change in stats, and /mlp/ didn't really light the world on fire fam
- [2016-07-02 6:07:00 PM] Background Pony: meme all you want, I think we did well enough given the circumstances
- [2016-07-02 6:07:03 PM] HT☆Rock: Regardless of how good a manager you think you are, it's more useful to have known properties amongst the entire group
- [2016-07-02 6:07:17 PM] Background Pony: winter was basically damage control every single game
- [2016-07-02 6:07:21 PM] HT☆Rock: and the known properties are those who succeeded very well in the previous two 4CC cups
- [2016-07-02 6:07:45 PM] HT☆Rock: Or the ones who sucked out loud
- [2016-07-02 6:07:57 PM] Background Pony: youre not going to know what teams will be playing in summer either
- [2016-07-02 6:09:28 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose is to use teams that did well previously to see how the stat changes affect teams we know how they should and did play
- [2016-07-02 6:10:09 PM] HT☆Rock: And then you compare them to teams that sucked to see if the changes make them better or worse in comparison, for the sake of measuring parity
- [2016-07-02 6:10:31 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose is to have the previous teams' tactics as a control
- [2016-07-02 6:10:40 PM | Edited 6:10:43 PM] HT☆Rock: and the dependent variable is the ruleset change
- [2016-07-02 6:10:44 PM] Background Pony: no, the purpose is to provide data that gives you an idea what the difference is between vanilla 1.04 and the proposed rules
- [2016-07-02 6:10:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^'
- [2016-07-02 6:10:54 PM] Background Pony: I gave you data, and now youre moving goalposts
- [2016-07-02 6:11:09 PM] HT☆Rock: I accepted the data you horsefucking bastard
- [2016-07-02 6:11:25 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm saying we should also test with teams we all know how they work
- [2016-07-02 6:11:35 PM] HT☆Rock: because you're saving muh super sekrit tictacs
- [2016-07-02 6:11:39 PM] HT☆Rock: you cocksucker
- [2016-07-02 6:11:54 PM] HT☆Rock: The data points are sound
- [2016-07-02 6:11:56 PM] HT☆Rock: the numbers work
- [2016-07-02 6:12:28 PM] HT☆Rock: your impressions aren't useful because we have no idea what your horsefucker teams look like outside of basic formation numbers
- [2016-07-02 6:13:13 PM] Background Pony: youre doing that with the /ag/ league, arent you
- [2016-07-02 6:13:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes, but not everyone is watching the /ag/ league
- [2016-07-02 6:13:51 PM] Background Pony: that's not my problem
- [2016-07-02 6:13:57 PM] HT☆Rock: and the /ag/ league is 1.04 harlock
- [2016-07-02 6:14:14 PM] HT☆Rock: we need 1.04 vanilla with the stat compression as well
- [2016-07-02 6:14:20 PM] HT☆Rock: which I think JB is doing
- [2016-07-02 6:14:48 PM] Background Pony: then I don't see what the big issue is
- [2016-07-02 6:17:13 PM | Edited 6:17:23 PM] Background Pony: my impressions stand based on what I've seen so far in the FT2 cup I tested. If JB sees something different in his tests, then we can debate about why that is or could be.
- [2016-07-02 6:17:18 PM] HT☆Rock: The issue is that your value judgments are useless in the face of the rest of us having incomplete information of the teams used or their basic sliders
- [2016-07-02 6:17:41 PM] HT☆Rock: The /ag/L you can download the teams and see what dumb bullshit they run
- [2016-07-02 6:18:08 PM] HT☆Rock: The standard 4CC teams you can download and watch klaxa VODs to see how they should play
- [2016-07-02 6:18:13 PM] HT☆Rock: The horsefucker cup...
- [2016-07-02 6:18:19 PM] HT☆Rock: You see where this is going, right?
- [2016-07-02 6:20:37 PM] Background Pony: I get your point. I disagree with your opinion that my views have no value because you can't scrutinize the teams I used to produce the games.
- [2016-07-02 6:21:12 PM] HT☆Rock: Your data is useful, though
- [2016-07-02 6:23:04 PM] HT☆Rock: but views that cannot be confirmed or denied by others due to hidden information aren't helpful in a group setting
- [2016-07-02 6:23:49 PM] HT☆Rock: Which is why I stress using previous teams, so we don't run into the exact problem we're having now
- [2016-07-03 2:10:55 PM] Myuer: so ugh
- [2016-07-03 2:11:21 PM] Myuer: the impression so far of the agleague is kinda bad, I don't see noticeable changes
- [2016-07-03 2:27:20 PM] Myuer: lel the benches on agleague
- [2016-07-03 2:27:22 PM] Myuer: my sides
- [2016-07-03 2:27:55 PM] Duke Silver: Was there a single Purple player in the first two matches, even on the bench?
- [2016-07-03 2:28:33 PM] Myuer: Anyway.
- [2016-07-03 2:29:09 PM] Myuer: I didn't see anything revolutionary or something noteceable as changes.
- [2016-07-03 2:36:14 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 1:27 PM
- > Was there a single Purple player in the first two matches, even on the bench?
- BXB Masa RX was purple
- [2016-07-03 2:36:53 PM] HT☆Rock: Saves are up like whoa and efficiency is slightly down
- [2016-07-03 2:37:17 PM] HT☆Rock: But there's still goofy bullshit because meme teams playing other meme teams
- [2016-07-03 2:37:19 PM] Duke Silver: /Seinfeld/ and /Ireland/ were both using Height Abuse keepers, I don't know about the second match
- [2016-07-03 2:37:40 PM] HT☆Rock: /aus/'s everything was fucked
- [2016-07-03 2:37:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Golds nerfed to 91, bronzes on 77
- [2016-07-03 2:37:56 PM] Myuer: Weren't we supposed to take this seriously as meter? lel
- [2016-07-03 2:38:23 PM] HT☆Rock: Well nobody did here when we said we were
- [2016-07-03 2:38:23 PM] Duke Silver: /Seinfeld/ was serious, maybe a little experimental but not a meme formation
- [2016-07-03 2:38:27 PM] HT☆Rock: So nobody did
- [2016-07-03 2:38:51 PM] HT☆Rock: All the formations are legit except /hsrpg/ because doogie is retarded
- [2016-07-03 2:39:02 PM] Duke Silver: Which is why I think I agree with HT that "Teams that we know did well in official PES 16 cups" should be the baseline
- [2016-07-03 2:39:07 PM] HT☆Rock: But nobody's trying to win or some shit
- [2016-07-03 2:39:36 PM] King Lear: And I can assure you that SDA has made an export that is inline with what he considers legit.
- [2016-07-03 2:39:50 PM] Myuer: I agree with that too Duke Silver, but then what is the point of all of this? The wiki description was literally a lie?
- [2016-07-03 2:40:05 PM] HT☆Rock: Do you have the 'tism?
- [2016-07-03 2:40:13 PM] Myuer: Nope just asking
- [2016-07-03 2:40:20 PM] Myuer: Like a normal human being.
- [2016-07-03 2:40:41 PM] King Lear: The tactics I submitted are legit.
- [2016-07-03 2:40:47 PM] HT☆Rock: People are running what they think is good in a stat compression harlock competition
- [2016-07-03 2:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: You just have people like >SDA
- [2016-07-03 2:41:10 PM] HT☆Rock: And experimental tactics
- [2016-07-03 2:41:35 PM] Duke Silver: We just can't go into the end of the week with an excuse to disallow "This test" or "That test". Because they're meme tactics, or because we can't see the tactics that each team is running because they're private, or whatever other excuse we end up with
- [2016-07-03 2:41:35 PM] HT☆Rock: And a lot of teams playing heavy offense because that's what's meme good
- [2016-07-03 2:42:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Also it's been two fucking matches Myuer, damn
- [2016-07-03 2:42:22 PM] Myuer: Damn. Do you know something called first impression?
- [2016-07-03 2:42:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: imo the best point of reference for the agl is the vgl
- [2016-07-03 2:42:37 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 1:39 PM
- > Which is why I think I agree with HT that "Teams that we know did well in official PES 16 cups" should be the baseline
- Which is why I said it
- [2016-07-03 2:43:01 PM] HT☆Rock: Myuer - Today 1:42 PM
- > Damn. Do you know something called first impression?
- Do you know something called "wait and see", fam?
- [2016-07-03 2:43:01 PM] Myuer: [July 3, 2016 2:42 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< imo the best point of reference for the agl is the vglI agree with this as well
- [2016-07-03 2:43:17 PM] HT☆Rock: If you're going to do this right, you need a body of evidence
- [2016-07-03 2:43:28 PM] HT☆Rock: Two games is not a body of evidence
- [2016-07-03 2:43:38 PM] Myuer: This is why it's called "first impression" fam
- [2016-07-03 2:43:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Fucking hell, at least attempt some scientific rigor here
- [2016-07-03 2:44:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Fuck your first impression
- [2016-07-03 2:44:14 PM] Myuer: "Fuck your argument" ok
- [2016-07-03 2:44:33 PM] Myuer: It's only first impression. So far I didn't notice any changes.
- [2016-07-03 2:44:42 PM] Myuer: Then if in the future I'm wrong, I'll be only happy.
- [2016-07-03 2:44:59 PM] HT☆Rock: Just watch the rest of the damn games
- [2016-07-03 2:45:19 PM] Myuer: I don't have a time machine to tell you how it is in the end, that's all. I'm judging what I saw so far.
- [2016-07-03 2:47:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: lear what's the deadline for this chat to make a decision
- [2016-07-03 2:47:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: the 9th right?
- [2016-07-03 2:55:20 PM] King Lear: 9th.
- [2016-07-03 3:07:25 PM] HT☆Rock: The 9th
- [2016-07-03 3:07:31 PM] HT☆Rock: Are you shitting me fam
- [2016-07-03 3:07:50 PM] Myuer: the 9th there is the new rules announcement
- [2016-07-03 3:08:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Fuck
- [2016-07-03 3:08:15 PM] HT☆Rock: JB, how's your test cup coming
- [2016-07-03 3:08:25 PM] Myuer: Infact if we don't manage in time, I'd suggest to move it at least for the 10th
- [2016-07-03 3:08:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: through two rounds of groups
- [2016-07-03 3:08:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: 4 games plus >knockouts to go
- [2016-07-03 3:09:20 PM] HT☆Rock: AGL stat compression on vanilla, right?
- [2016-07-03 3:09:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
- [2016-07-03 3:10:00 PM] HT☆Rock: Which teams, so I can run concurrently with you
- [2016-07-03 3:10:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: I doubt we'll get the same results since I have them on custom slider sets
- [2016-07-03 3:10:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: later tonight I can get you those though
- [2016-07-03 3:10:29 PM] HT☆Rock: Thanks fam
- [2016-07-03 3:10:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Actually, just puush me your edit.bin
- [2016-07-03 3:11:09 PM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< winter knockouts: /fit/, /tv/, /s/
- spring knockouts: /trv/, /wg/, /lit/
- neither: /po/, /b/
- [2016-07-03 3:11:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Remove your sooper sekrit /fit/ tictacs first (^:
- [2016-07-03 3:11:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm on my phone
- [2016-07-03 3:11:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: so tonight
- [2016-07-03 3:11:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Cool, because I have to be somewhere soonish
- [2016-07-03 3:12:03 PM] HT☆Rock: And will be back at night
- [2016-07-03 3:12:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: and yeah I have a test cup's worth of custom teams on there so I may just write it out
- [2016-07-03 7:54:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
- [2016-07-03 8:49:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Gracias
- [2016-07-04 4:10:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Here's my test cup on 80/90/95 and a rather lengthy writeup on it https://puu.sh/pQi5I/caa8ec594b.txt
- [2016-07-04 4:20:17 PM] Background Pony: What exactly is /trv/ball?
- [2016-07-04 4:20:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: just a name I gave to 4-3-3 hyper offense no midfield
- [2016-07-04 4:20:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: /m/ kind of run it
- [2016-07-04 4:20:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: /r9k/ ran it
- [2016-07-04 4:21:27 PM] Background Pony: ahh, jeah I would say /m/ has been kind of the posterchild for that kind of play since forever
- [2016-07-04 4:22:59 PM] Background Pony: in my experience sheer offense can get you out of groups easily, but you eventually have a game where your offense is just sleepy, and you egt detroyed because lolnodefense
- [2016-07-04 4:23:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I prefer balanced play to those kinds of setups, but the current format does make it possible to win big a lot with a very attacking 4-3-3 just because 3 medal strikers vs 77s
- [2016-07-04 4:23:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: and yeah you often do run into that one game where your offense just doesn't show up
- [2016-07-04 4:25:59 PM] Background Pony: I'll probably run a FT2 test on 99/90/81, to see how that does
- [2016-07-04 4:26:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: something like that seemed to be a logical next step to look into after looking at this
- [2016-07-04 4:27:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: did you see a lot of similar stuff to what I wrote about in your test cup?
- [2016-07-04 4:27:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: or were there any significant variations
- [2016-07-04 4:27:31 PM] Background Pony: in my experience I saw a lot less succesful lofted through passes
- [2016-07-04 4:28:01 PM] Background Pony: they tended to be low, played into channels
- [2016-07-04 4:28:35 PM] Background Pony: I saw no headers at all. No direct goals from crosses or corners.
- [2016-07-04 4:28:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: chipping it over the backline was common in certain games and nonexistent in others
- [2016-07-04 4:28:57 PM] Background Pony: even by teams with first time shot and/or acrobatic finishing
- [2016-07-04 4:29:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: crossing seemed greatly reduced both in rate and effectiveness
- [2016-07-04 4:29:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I remember like one corner goal
- [2016-07-04 4:29:48 PM] Background Pony: I assume the defense just deals better with crosses at 80 stats
- [2016-07-04 4:29:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably
- [2016-07-04 4:30:23 PM] Background Pony: maybe unnerfed golds can get enough height or space, though
- [2016-07-04 4:31:20 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 3:10 PM
- > Here's my test cup on 80/90/95 and a rather lengthy writeup on it https://puu.sh/pQi5I/caa8ec594b.txt
- Good shit GOOD SHIT (ok) (cwl)
- [2016-07-04 4:32:17 PM] Background Pony: as for the rest, (defensive) passing was definitely improved, like you said, and I felt that the number of 'unfair' games was increased. Where a keeper performance basically caused a team to win, eventhough they had a worse performance in every other aspect.
- [2016-07-04 4:32:34 PM] HT☆Rock: But now that we have confirmation on the unsexy gold play, I'm willing to dick around with golds being 99 again
- [2016-07-04 4:33:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't think 95 golds accomplished the reduced finishing that nerfing golds were looking for. Lowered goal rates came from better defense more than missing open shots.
- [2016-07-04 4:33:47 PM] Background Pony: I had one game of questionable momentum, where a team with a lousy first half performance came back from 0 - 3 behind to a 3 - 3 draw in the second half
- [2016-07-04 4:34:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't see any gigantic shifts, that was nice
- [2016-07-04 4:34:31 PM] Background Pony: but there were not many shots in that game, so that makes it hard to judge if it really was momentum, or whether it was just a low shots game diceroll
- [2016-07-04 4:35:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: I talk about this in there, but I think that offensive structures of some of these teams were unsuited for this format but work in 77/88/99
- [2016-07-04 4:35:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: /s/ and /fit/ put up great shot numbers
- [2016-07-04 4:36:35 PM] Background Pony: shots in the tests I ran were reduced by like, 30% or so. Which I really didn't like.
- [2016-07-04 4:36:55 PM] Background Pony: Especially when the amount of goals stays relatively the same.
- [2016-07-04 4:37:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh I'd certainly say that shots were reduced, I just think the format has enough potential for that to go up
- [2016-07-04 4:37:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: and my goal totals went down to a good amount
- [2016-07-04 4:37:51 PM] Background Pony: there might be a degree of PES randomness involved, since shotcount differs so much between repeat games
- [2016-07-04 4:38:42 PM | Edited 4:38:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah this definitely encourages more randomness, especially with those 1-5, 1-4 games that had similar shotcounts for each team
- [2016-07-04 4:39:15 PM] Background Pony: I liked the PES15 statistics a lot more, when you had more shots but less goals
- [2016-07-04 4:40:00 PM] Smugleaf: Can we remove /s/
- [2016-07-04 4:40:24 PM | Edited 4:40:34 PM] HT☆Rock: After we remove /mlp/ ^: )
- [2016-07-04 4:40:25 PM] Background Pony: I do feel like PES16 sometimes feels like it has a goal-quota, where less shots mean the strikers become more accurate/keepers become dumber, in order to guarantee goals, but that is most likely just confirmation bias
- [2016-07-04 4:40:29 PM | Edited 4:40:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT can you run your version of this with 99 golds
- [2016-07-04 4:40:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Certainly
- [2016-07-04 4:41:44 PM] Background Pony: how was your test cup on saves?
- [2016-07-04 4:42:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: About the same
- [2016-07-04 4:42:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: Keepers were better but faced higher quality shots
- [2016-07-04 4:42:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Also, a specific thing to watch for here would be conversions from width: headers, lofted/drilled crosses, corners, etc.
- [2016-07-04 4:42:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Right?
- [2016-07-04 4:42:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: CBs were much better at getting in the way of shots
- [2016-07-04 4:43:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure, that's why I took screenshots of final stats
- [2016-07-04 4:43:13 PM] HT☆Rock: That was the main thing I noticed on my end too: the last line was worlds better on closing down
- [2016-07-04 4:43:57 PM] Background Pony: keeper ratio (saves vs. shots on target) actually went down for me.
- [2016-07-04 4:44:10 PM] Background Pony: presumably because of better CBs
- [2016-07-04 4:46:07 PM] HT☆Rock: That seems logical, yeah
- [2016-07-04 4:47:24 PM] HT☆Rock: With more eyes on the prize, I'm thinking the path of least resistance would be just a bronze buff to 80
- [2016-07-04 4:54:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: what is everyone's opinion of the /ag/l so far (mostly HT since he's the only one watching afaik)
- [2016-07-04 4:54:49 PM] King Lear: I'm watching but I don't count.
- [2016-07-04 4:55:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure you do
- [2016-07-04 4:55:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: in the end you're the only one who does (^:
- [2016-07-04 4:56:37 PM] King Lear: I like it but I'm not sure what to make of it because some teams are spiking the averages with horrid formations. Definitely less muh mentum and stuff, non-medals seem to be in a better place but I want to see what happens with them as strikers on a not shit team.
- [2016-07-04 4:57:03 PM] King Lear: Case in point: /hsrpg/
- [2016-07-04 5:09:32 PM] HT☆Rock: General consensus from the like three people watching it is the games are exciting and feel less bullshit: good seeming teams do alright, bad seeming teams get scraped, and the 5-6 goal a side game is a rarer thing
- [2016-07-04 5:10:13 PM] HT☆Rock: The final 16 should make a good base to make decisions on for a more solid test cup
- [2016-07-04 5:10:35 PM] HT☆Rock: It's basically the /vg/l but with daddy's cummies and less insanity
- [2016-07-04 5:15:03 PM] HT☆Rock: I have no idea what the fuck doogie was doing here though
- [2016-07-04 5:15:06 PM] HT☆Rock: outside of being doogie
- [2016-07-04 5:17:37 PM] King Lear: Considering these are two 3-3-4s this match is low scoring. Must be because they're both set up like ass on top of it all.
- [2016-07-04 5:19:08 PM] HT☆Rock: yeah
- [2016-07-04 5:54:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: I ran 99/90/81 in 1.03 and I liked it well enough. 1.04 is an improvement so there's no reason to say it wouldn't be at least a minor improvement there too.
- [2016-07-04 5:55:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: One thing I don't like about 95/90/80 is that it's a 5 point jump from silver to gold but a 10 point one from bronze to silver
- [2016-07-04 5:55:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'd like to maintain that dynamic, personally
- [2016-07-04 6:26:59 PM | Edited 6:27:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Chance has singlehandedly fucked this whole agl
- [2016-07-04 6:27:07 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to nuke Canada
- [2016-07-04 6:27:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
- [2016-07-04 6:34:13 PM] King Lear: Just hit the Maritimes. Nothing of value will be lost.
- [2016-07-04 6:34:25 PM] King Lear: If you're lucky you'll take out Quebec too.
- [2016-07-04 6:54:48 PM] Myuer: Idk, JB. Putting back golds at 99 with keeping silvers and bronze at 90/80 dosen't sound that good idea for me
- [2016-07-04 6:55:18 PM] Myuer: At this rate, just stay with the normal stats as always
- [2016-07-04 6:55:31 PM] HT☆Rock: have you done any testing?
- [2016-07-04 6:56:33 PM] Myuer: with 99/88/77 yes, with moeshit settings too. Never tried this 95-90-80, I'm just reading what he did write.
- [2016-07-04 6:59:03 PM] Myuer: and from what he wrote, seems that 95-90-80 is a very good option
- [2016-07-04 7:05:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know if I'd call my conclusion "very good" tbh
- [2016-07-04 7:06:42 PM] Duke Silver: What are you looking to see from 99/90/80 that you didn't see from 95/90/80 though? I'd be happy to run through something similar tonight, or something else if you've got any hunches
- [2016-07-04 7:06:50 PM] Duke Silver: Not like I've got anything going on tonight, already did my America
- [2016-07-04 7:07:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: More inspiration and variance in offensive play
- [2016-07-04 7:07:23 PM] Myuer: Well, about the CB being better with the slightly buff I noticed it even in the moeshit settings, they were blocking more, and stopping the action from being made. The same thing happened in agleague from the bit that I saw.
- [2016-07-04 7:11:36 PM] HT☆Rock: First matchday down, moving into the second
- [2016-07-04 7:54:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Apropos of nothing, you got /lit/'s sliders wrong JB
- [2016-07-04 7:54:50 PM] HT☆Rock: which is surprising since San Man posted them in /ag/ multiple times
- [2016-07-04 7:56:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't read /ag/ unless I'm pinged
- [2016-07-04 8:03:03 PM] King Lear: Wasn't it that he was going to play possession but every time he tested he just decided counter was the better option?
- [2016-07-05 12:09:49 AM] HT☆Rock: No
- [2016-07-05 12:09:55 AM] HT☆Rock: he played possession against /cm/
- [2016-07-05 12:10:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: hehe
- [2016-07-05 12:10:02 AM] HT☆Rock: almost done with the cup boyes
- [2016-07-05 12:10:13 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 12:10 AM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< hehet
- [2016-07-05 12:10:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: srsly tho who gives a shit what Marino actually ran, /lit/ wasn't even that good
- [2016-07-05 12:10:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: ya pretty much
- [2016-07-05 12:10:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm sure JB's sliders were perfectly adequate if not better than what Marino ran
- [2016-07-05 12:10:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: I dunno /lit/ kinda sucked in this
- [2016-07-05 12:11:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: because /lit/ was an entirely underwhelming team
- [2016-07-05 12:11:05 AM] HT☆Rock: carma if I wanted your opinion I would rape it out of you
- [2016-07-05 12:11:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's not rape if I enjoy it
- [2016-07-05 12:11:16 AM] HT☆Rock: they're in the finals of my test cup currently
- [2016-07-05 12:11:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: faggot
- [2016-07-05 12:11:28 AM] JohnnyBravo: what's the actual set out of curiosity
- [2016-07-05 12:11:35 AM] HT☆Rock: There were several
- [2016-07-05 12:11:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: true for most teams
- [2016-07-05 12:11:51 AM] Gannon Murphy: also >having one set of sliders
- t. smulel
- [2016-07-05 12:12:28 AM | Edited 12:13:41 AM] HT☆Rock: The one I'm using is c/s/c/m/4/few f/w/a/3/6/medium
- [2016-07-05 12:13:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: >few
- well that would fix them conceding like crazy I guess
- [2016-07-05 1:59:58 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pQN6m/2bac3d57e2.txt
- the damn'd deed is done
- [2016-07-05 4:38:20 AM] Background Pony: >Fouls are definitely called more, some games turned into Pro Evolution Offsides.
- [2016-07-05 4:38:42 AM] Background Pony: I had a red card in one of my tests, but the team still won with one man down, so I counted the result anyway
- [2016-07-05 4:38:51 AM] Background Pony: normally I start over
- [2016-07-05 8:36:38 AM] Myuer: but 99 Golds can just ignore the CBs if they're big enough.
- [2016-07-05 8:36:40 AM] Myuer: this is bad
- [2016-07-05 8:41:25 AM] Background Pony: Im running a 81/90/99 cup at the moment and holy shit is it slurpy
- [2016-07-05 8:41:48 AM] Background Pony: four games in, Ive got three 1-1 draws and one 2-1
- [2016-07-05 8:42:08 AM] Background Pony: fifth game's looking like it'll end in a 1-1 draw as well
- [2016-07-05 8:42:35 AM] Myuer: well this makes question which sliders are you running
- [2016-07-05 8:43:50 AM] Background Pony: each team running their own tactics that people tested for and worked well. Like I said, a variation of counter/short and possession/short tactics, generally with slightly deeper defensive lines and higher compactness. Nothing revolutionary.
- [2016-07-05 9:08:42 AM] Background Pony: and now I have a game with two goals in the first 5 minutes
- [2016-07-05 9:13:22 AM] Background Pony: haha, a defender just nutmegged a gold striker
- [2016-07-05 9:20:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: so golds being restored made them get on the end of more throughballs, yay (dull)
- [2016-07-05 9:20:51 AM] Background Pony: no, I think the problems is actually the bronze players
- [2016-07-05 9:20:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think saying that 6/8 teams on c/s/c isn't representative of the tactics in play in the cup though
- [2016-07-05 9:20:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: also /fit/ actually playing like I drew it up, wew
- [2016-07-05 9:21:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: in winter every team but /out/ sold out against througballs and we played through the fullbacks
- [2016-07-05 9:21:39 AM] Background Pony: I'd say the variation between counter and posession is pretty much 50/50
- [2016-07-05 9:22:53 AM] Background Pony: but what I'm seeing in this test cup is that 81 bronze players in 1.04 are just too good
- [2016-07-05 9:22:55 AM] JohnnyBravo: /fit/: both /u/: counter /out/: counter /mu/: both /s4s/: counter /gd/: counter /s/: both /an/: counter
- /m/: counter /vr/: both /r9k/: counter /v/: poss
- [2016-07-05 9:24:31 AM] JohnnyBravo: also ht /s/ play really well on my system for some reason which is why I picked them and they went to ET in the final. Either way I was aiming to have both a broad representation and have a few more on the average side of things because if I ran a test cup with nothing but top teams you'd leave yourself open to weaker teams blowing the format wide open.
- [2016-07-05 9:25:25 AM] JohnnyBravo: I agree that boosted nonmedals are too good offensively with 99 golds based on what I'm seeing here. It kinda confirms my suspicions that stats scale non-linearly. Perhaps defense-specific boosts to bronzes a la the old prowess method?
- [2016-07-05 9:26:49 AM] Background Pony: a boost from 80 to 81 for instance is by definition larger than for instance from 95 to 96
- [2016-07-05 9:27:50 AM] Background Pony: eight games in I'm looking at this:
- [2016-07-05 9:27:51 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pR4M3/770d24bf83.png
- [2016-07-05 9:29:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: HT's cup has some good scorelines, the issue is just how much you harm how the game looks to get there
- [2016-07-05 9:29:23 AM] Background Pony: jeah, that's the main issue
- [2016-07-05 9:29:41 AM] Background Pony: these game scorelines might look okay to some people, but holy shit the games are so slurpy
- [2016-07-05 9:31:50 AM] Background Pony: I do think 99 golds is a must, though. There may have been less goals, but the goals do look a lot better and varied than 95 golds medal goals.
- [2016-07-05 9:32:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: especially if every goal is just going to be a gigantic counterattack/throughball
- [2016-07-05 9:32:06 AM] Background Pony: more volleys, etc. Still no headers/corner goals, though
- [2016-07-05 9:32:18 AM] JohnnyBravo: I think 95 helps but that we can achieve similar results without leaving 99s
- [2016-07-05 9:32:36 AM] JohnnyBravo: I just wonder how drastic it would have to get
- [2016-07-05 9:32:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: maybe even a changed medal system, I dunno
- [2016-07-05 9:36:59 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 9:27 AM] Background Pony:
- <<< man I love those scorelines if you ask me
- [2016-07-05 9:37:16 AM] Background Pony: the games are boring as fuck
- [2016-07-05 9:37:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: but it's really not about the scorelines, it's about how you get there
- [2016-07-05 9:37:54 AM] Myuer: Well, since I can't see those teams in action (the ones of Background Pony) I'm judging from the only stats that he can post here
- [2016-07-05 9:38:18 AM] Myuer: Maybe it's uncommon here, but I'd be totally fine with games finishing 1-0, 1-1. 2-2. 3-2, 2-1
- [2016-07-05 9:38:19 AM] Myuer: etc
- [2016-07-05 9:38:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: what ruleset is this, 81/90/99 right
- [2016-07-05 9:38:52 AM] Myuer: Ofc, you need to get them exiting
- [2016-07-05 9:39:27 AM] Background Pony: jeah, its 81/90/99
- [2016-07-05 9:39:38 AM] Background Pony: 8 form keepers, orange conditions, no subs
- [2016-07-05 9:39:44 AM] Myuer: btw since I'm free from all exams, if you want I can run things too
- [2016-07-05 9:42:03 AM] Myuer: Give me instructions in case and I'll do that
- [2016-07-05 9:42:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'm just trying to think of where we want to go from here
- [2016-07-05 9:42:56 AM] Myuer: The fact is, we have testings with 80-90-95, 80-90-99
- [2016-07-05 9:43:06 AM] Myuer: and now BGP is running with 81-90-99 right?
- [2016-07-05 9:43:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes, which isn't very much of a departure from the latter but good confirmation that we probably shouldn't use that system
- [2016-07-05 9:43:56 AM] Myuer: The problem is that we have around 4 days to settle this
- [2016-07-05 9:43:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: there's also the possibility of harlock
- [2016-07-05 9:44:00 AM] Background Pony: maybe do some tests with defensive buffs for bronze medals?
- [2016-07-05 9:44:10 AM] Myuer: buff more nomedals?
- [2016-07-05 9:44:11 AM] JohnnyBravo: kind of what I was thinking
- [2016-07-05 9:44:18 AM] Myuer: or only defense players?
- [2016-07-05 9:44:26 AM] JohnnyBravo: all nonmedals
- [2016-07-05 9:44:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: you can't do position specific without unbalancing the game
- [2016-07-05 9:45:01 AM] Background Pony: 77 stats, but increased goalkeeping, defensive prowess and ball winning? No idea how big the buffs should be, though
- [2016-07-05 9:45:06 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 9:43 AM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< there's also the possibility of harlockYeah, with harlock we have the bunch of agleague and moeshit basically, but those 2 were completely on different stats compressions
- [2016-07-05 9:45:44 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't particularly like the idea of 90-85-80; seems very extreme
- [2016-07-05 9:46:17 AM] Myuer: From the bit that I had to do, I kinda liked it, but I'd buffed slightly the golds
- [2016-07-05 9:46:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: also I don't know about ball winning, that's already decent
- [2016-07-05 9:47:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: what about 82 in def prow, ball winning, body balance, goalkeeping, catching, clearing, reflexes, coverage
- [2016-07-05 9:48:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: the latter two seem promising as far as defensive positioning being a big issue
- [2016-07-05 9:48:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: or even a more substantial buff like 85
- [2016-07-05 9:49:05 AM] Background Pony: I dont know what stats apply to defenders, but at 81 stats these defenders are already super competent
- [2016-07-05 9:49:31 AM] Background Pony: so 85 is going to make them ridiculous
- [2016-07-05 9:49:40 AM] JohnnyBravo: seems reasonable
- [2016-07-05 9:50:32 AM] Myuer: From what I saw even with all 80 in the stats they seemed competent enough
- [2016-07-05 9:51:21 AM] Myuer: Stopped more the action from being created, sweeped more the ball etc
- [2016-07-05 2:42:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 8:32 AM
- > more volleys, etc. Still no headers/corner goals, though
- Dude I had several of each running 99/90/80, Moeshit and AGL style. What is happening to your pes
- [2016-07-05 2:42:37 PM] HT☆Rock: The sexiest Moeshit goal I had was a cheeky Yoko back heel off of a corner
- [2016-07-05 2:46:19 PM] Background Pony: Ive had a couple of header goals since, and some indirect goals from corners
- [2016-07-05 2:47:23 PM] Background Pony: I'm working on compiling the stats right now
- [2016-07-05 2:51:24 PM] HT☆Rock: With a greater body of knowledge, I'm kind of sold on one of three options: 99/88/80 Harlock, 95/90/80 Vanilla or AGL rules in either system
- [2016-07-05 2:51:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Harlock creates more solid defense, but also gives golds more creativity
- [2016-07-05 2:52:17 PM] Myuer: AGL rules with dropping form 8 on all players
- [2016-07-05 2:52:42 PM] Myuer: and keeping it to the keepers
- [2016-07-05 2:52:55 PM | Edited 2:53:26 PM] HT☆Rock: Slightly nerfing golds and slightly bumping silvers on vanilla brings things to reasonable-ish levels
- [2016-07-05 2:54:06 PM] HT☆Rock: What Myuer says works too
- [2016-07-05 2:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: would that involve harlock
- [2016-07-05 2:54:31 PM] Myuer: Tbh HT, I'd drop form 8 on all players in any case.
- [2016-07-05 2:54:34 PM] HT☆Rock: AGL rules could go either way tbdesu
- [2016-07-05 2:54:37 PM] Myuer: And keep it only on keepers.
- [2016-07-05 2:54:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: I agree about form
- [2016-07-05 2:54:58 PM] HT☆Rock: I personally liked AGL rules on vanilla better in my preliminary tests
- [2016-07-05 2:55:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm inclined to favor an official konami patch over a fan one
- [2016-07-05 2:55:43 PM] Myuer: ^
- [2016-07-05 2:55:44 PM] Duke Silver: Also agreed on Form - the "Form 8 on everyone" piece kind of makes it so that 165s and 170s are just genuinely NEVER EVER used
- [2016-07-05 2:55:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: especially one with very little documentation
- [2016-07-05 2:58:19 PM] Myuer: You can look into the codes and compare them, but you'd have to do a lot of guessing
- [2016-07-05 3:02:17 PM] Background Pony: here's my data from the latest batch of tests:
- [2016-07-05 3:02:18 PM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pRmAK/8d448b2f0c.png
- [2016-07-05 3:02:33 PM] Background Pony: the amount of goals scored dropped by a lot. There were a lot of slurpy games.
- [2016-07-05 3:02:42 PM] Duke Silver: >3.133 Wew
- [2016-07-05 3:02:43 PM] Background Pony: Saves increased a lot too.
- [2016-07-05 3:03:12 PM] Background Pony: Im not sure if its PES randomness, or whether the small increase made such a huge difference
- [2016-07-05 3:04:35 PM] Duke Silver: Could be the teams as well - my first test cup using the top 8 Winter / top 8 Spring had 5.28 and I think around ~47% keeper efficiency, using the same rule set you listed on the first group of tests
- [2016-07-05 3:04:42 PM] Background Pony: stylish goals returned, but with so few goals per game, it still felt underwhelming
- [2016-07-05 3:04:48 PM] Duke Silver: So those teams with the same stats averaged a goal per game higher
- [2016-07-05 3:06:44 PM] Background Pony: If I had to make a choice, I would personally go with vanilla 1.04. I'm not sure what people are going to do for summer, but I feel that if you start "nerfing" the game on account of super offensive teams, you are going to make the games that don't have these offensive teams in them incredibly shit to watch.
- [2016-07-05 3:07:15 PM] Myuer: That's a good guessing, but I think that anyway people will try some super offensive tacts
- [2016-07-05 3:07:38 PM] Myuer: But, in most part I agree with you
- [2016-07-05 3:09:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88/(77 with defensive boosts)
- [2016-07-05 3:09:16 PM] Background Pony: maybe look into a keeper buff, like upping goalkeeping etc to 81, but Im unsure how useful that will be with 77 defenders. There's a pretty big relationship between the two.
- [2016-07-05 3:09:55 PM] Duke Silver: Which Defensive boosts were you looking at, and how far? Defensive Prowess, Body Balance, the (4?) GK ones?
- [2016-07-05 3:09:59 PM] HT☆Rock: 77 defenders are booty
- [2016-07-05 3:10:11 PM] HT☆Rock: Plain and simple
- [2016-07-05 3:10:12 PM] Myuer: tbf we should just put 80 no medals to avoid some exports clusterfucks
- [2016-07-05 3:10:25 PM] Background Pony: that's not what I was doing. I think someone else was going to test that.
- [2016-07-05 3:11:21 PM] Background Pony: 77 defenders in 1.04 dont seem all that shit to me. They seemed competent in the FT2, and in the tests I did for that cup.
- [2016-07-05 3:12:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: but 80/90/99 seemed outright worse than 80/90/95, no?
- [2016-07-05 3:12:40 PM] Background Pony: I dont know what /m/, or /trv/, or other offensive teams do, but I think you have to be careful that you dont force everyone to play like them, simply because when you nerf everything it becomes the only viable way to play
- [2016-07-05 3:13:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: if anything nerfs make teams like that worse
- [2016-07-05 3:13:09 PM] Background Pony: I've no idea what happened in these tests. Maybe PES was just having one of those days.
- [2016-07-05 3:13:28 PM] Background Pony: Otherwise buffing non-medals from 80 to 81 has a ridiculous effect
- [2016-07-05 3:13:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's probably the differences in teams
- [2016-07-05 3:13:51 PM] HT☆Rock: I did notice outside of the ass whoopings, scorelines were down slightly
- [2016-07-05 3:14:00 PM] Background Pony: I ran all those tests with the same setting (http://puu.sh/pRmAK/8d448b2f0c.png)
- [2016-07-05 3:14:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Seemed like a "pass the ball to Tucker" sort of thing
- [2016-07-05 3:14:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: ah right, you meant comparing within yours
- [2016-07-05 3:14:32 PM] Background Pony: ass whoopings will always happen, I think. Same with kickoff abuse.
- [2016-07-05 3:14:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Combined with 1.04 Harlock generating more shots
- [2016-07-05 3:14:37 PM] Background Pony: PES16 AI is just fucked
- [2016-07-05 3:14:41 PM] HT☆Rock: Yeah
- [2016-07-05 3:14:50 PM] Myuer: Well, we can't do much for that
- [2016-07-05 3:14:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: kickoff abuse seemed down w/ 95 golds
- [2016-07-05 3:15:05 PM] HT☆Rock: We just need to mitigate what we can and accept what we can't
- [2016-07-05 3:15:12 PM] Myuer: Exactly
- [2016-07-05 3:15:32 PM] Background Pony: it still happened for me. I didnt really keep track how often it happened, though. Probably less often than with 99 golds.
- [2016-07-05 3:15:42 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:14 PM
- > kickoff abuse seemed down w/ 95 golds
- As you say this, my /ag/L team lit up durgen's team pretty much entirely on Kekoff goals
- [2016-07-05 3:15:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: let's just use pes 2014 1.12 and call it a day
- [2016-07-05 3:15:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: As you say this, my /ag/L team lit up durgen's team pretty much entirely on Kekoff goalson a different patch
- [2016-07-05 3:15:56 PM] Background Pony: But the lack of style and variety in goals just isnt worth nerfing golds, I think.
- [2016-07-05 3:15:58 PM] HT☆Rock: PES 15 when?
- [2016-07-05 3:16:07 PM] Myuer: PES6 when.
- [2016-07-05 3:16:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: pes 15 with mandatory fluid
- [2016-07-05 3:16:41 PM] Myuer: Jokes aside, let's just cross fingers for PES17.
- [2016-07-05 3:16:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 2:15 PM
- > But the lack of style and variety in goals just isnt worth nerfing golds, I think.
- I would really like to see you run a test cup using the teams JB set up instead of the horsefucker test teams
- [2016-07-05 3:17:11 PM] HT☆Rock: And see if the lack of class is still there
- [2016-07-05 3:17:25 PM] Background Pony: wouldnt it be easier to just ask JB?
- [2016-07-05 3:17:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think there's enough class with 99s to make that a worthwhile argument
- [2016-07-05 3:17:42 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:12 PM
- > but 80/90/99 seemed outright worse than 80/90/95, no?
- On vanilla, yeah
- [2016-07-05 3:18:06 PM] HT☆Rock: Harlock strikers are classy af
- [2016-07-05 4:34:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 9:25 AM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< Perhaps defense-specific boosts to bronzes a la the old prowess method?I'd be hella up for that. I also agree with BGP that 99 golds are pretty much essential. 96 at the lowest.
- [2016-07-05 4:38:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: I think with defense specific buffs we need to be very careful, though, to prevent what we've been getting where attacks only come over the top because the attackers can't find any other possible attacking route.
- I think ball winning is an obvious one, defensive prowess might be too OP if we're not careful, however. Speed and jump we could try if we really want to maybe lower the throughballs a bit
- [2016-07-05 4:58:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: http://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35306
- [2016-07-05 4:58:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: so keeping is the last five stats
- [2016-07-05 4:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: >Defensive Prowess:
- The ability of defending by predicting the pattern of play.
- [2016-07-05 4:58:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: this is probably the most important one
- [2016-07-05 5:01:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: also some of these are more useful than others
- [2016-07-05 5:01:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: for example I recall someone (bent?) testing body balance and finding it mostly useless
- [2016-07-05 5:02:15 PM] HT☆Rock: In 14 we bumped Defensive Prowess to 88 for bronzes
- [2016-07-05 5:02:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: that's the kind of change I'm thinking of really
- [2016-07-05 5:02:32 PM] HT☆Rock: I was a part of that tester corps
- [2016-07-05 5:02:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: and as you said it's not without precedent
- [2016-07-05 5:03:28 PM | Edited 5:03:45 PM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 3:34 PM
- > I also agree with BGP that 99 golds are pretty much essential. 96 at the lowest.
- I keep telling you this is meaningless or actively detrimental
- [2016-07-05 5:04:13 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless we go Harlock and/or buff D.Prowess
- [2016-07-05 5:04:31 PM] Background Pony: I might do another test run with 77/88/99, but 88 def prowess on bronze players
- [2016-07-05 5:04:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: didn't you say 88 would be too extreme
- [2016-07-05 5:04:47 PM] Background Pony: tomorrow
- [2016-07-05 5:05:15 PM] Background Pony: I dont know how much def prowess affects the AI
- [2016-07-05 5:05:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: you try that and I'll try boosting to 82 perhaps to see how it looks at different levels
- [2016-07-05 5:05:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: also maybe do the same for keepers
- [2016-07-05 5:05:58 PM] Background Pony: let me check how a 81 stat defender is globally rated vs a defender with 77 stats but 88 def prowess
- [2016-07-05 5:07:20 PM] Background Pony: 81 stat defenders have a global rating of 84
- [2016-07-05 5:07:31 PM] Background Pony: 80 stat = global rating of 82
- [2016-07-05 5:08:03 PM | Edited 5:08:11 PM] Background Pony: 77 stat but 88 def prowess CB = 81 global rating
- [2016-07-05 5:08:09 PM | Removed 5:08:18 PM] Background Pony: This message has been removed.
- [2016-07-05 5:08:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: I think 88 even for specific stats would be too much
- [2016-07-05 5:08:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: but I wonder how the dynamic of 77 in offensive stats works there
- [2016-07-05 5:08:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably more long pass attempts when they get marked out close up
- [2016-07-05 5:08:42 PM] HT☆Rock: 88 D.Prowess is like world class defense
- [2016-07-05 5:09:22 PM | Edited 5:09:34 PM] Background Pony: give me a value for def prowess and I will run a series of tests tomorrow
- [2016-07-05 5:09:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: hmm
- [2016-07-05 5:09:56 PM] HT☆Rock: And the better the D, the harder it is for bronzes to thread through, which means more punt and pray I reckon
- [2016-07-05 5:10:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah we want to avoid that
- [2016-07-05 5:10:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: try 80?
- [2016-07-05 5:10:31 PM] HT☆Rock: 80 or 85
- [2016-07-05 5:10:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: I recall you saying you liked vanilla 1.04 77/88/99 so let's try the conservative boost first
- [2016-07-05 5:10:49 PM] HT☆Rock: So 80
- [2016-07-05 5:10:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
- [2016-07-05 5:11:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll run some on that too. Probably not a whole cup but 3 or 4 to get a feel for it.
- [2016-07-05 5:12:53 PM] HT☆Rock: Basically the balancing act we have to pull here is individual medal skill vs. team defensive capabilities
- [2016-07-05 5:13:11 PM] Background Pony: 77 stats + (75~77 def prowess) = 78 rating
- [2016-07-05 5:14:09 PM] HT☆Rock: Because on one hand we have "muh golds", on the other we're here to mitigate 11 goal games standard, and on the third hand we don't want semen slurping
- [2016-07-05 5:14:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm looking over the /ag/L page and wondering why there are such large score discrepancies. Some groups are great and others are (rofl) . Too early to make a final call on that setup I suppose.
- [2016-07-05 5:14:23 PM] Background Pony: 77 stats + (78~81 def prowess) = 79 rating
- [2016-07-05 5:14:48 PM] HT☆Rock: Group H is a bunch of meme loving fucks and >PAVAL
- [2016-07-05 5:14:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know how much stock I'd put into in-game ratings
- [2016-07-05 5:15:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: especially if we're thinking that stats don't scale linearly those groupings seem large
- [2016-07-05 5:15:23 PM] Background Pony: basically the global rating goes up by 1 for every three/four points of def prowess
- [2016-07-05 5:15:46 PM] Background Pony: jeah, it probably doesnt really mean anything
- [2016-07-05 5:16:06 PM] Background Pony: like the team defense/midfield/offense ratings
- [2016-07-05 5:16:41 PM] Background Pony: just a random value based on other stats that doesnt really do anything itself
- [2016-07-05 5:17:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: almost certainly a weighted average of some sort
- [2016-07-05 5:17:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: drawing from values relevant to the position based on how much konami thinks each stat matters for said position
- [2016-07-05 5:18:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: so defprow increases could increase the ingame stat more for blue (backline) players more than midfielders but do the same exact thing on the pitch
- [2016-07-05 5:20:13 PM] Background Pony: I will do some games with 88 def prowess as well, just so I can tell if it changes the AI by a lot
- [2016-07-05 5:20:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: sounds good
- [2016-07-05 6:52:18 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147367921/4ccg-hr-edition#p147560774
- [2016-07-05 6:54:08 PM] HT☆Rock: >Our latest Harlock endeavors have been a failure
- [2016-07-05 6:54:14 PM] HT☆Rock: Who's this faggot?
- [2016-07-05 6:54:41 PM] King Lear: That would be the /r9k/ manager.
- [2016-07-05 6:54:41 PM] Background Pony: that sounds like what we wanted to test with a defensive prowess buff, pretty much
- [2016-07-05 6:55:19 PM] Background Pony: "Defenders are set to detect threats from literally everywhere and respond immediately."
- [2016-07-05 6:56:21 PM] HT☆Rock: Hacking in defensive omnipresence and omniscience with what, five days to test?
- [2016-07-05 6:56:30 PM] HT☆Rock: Surely nothing can go wrong (drunk)
- [2016-07-05 7:01:58 PM] HT☆Rock: >it's in Japanese
- [2016-07-05 7:02:01 PM] HT☆Rock: help
- [2016-07-05 7:02:20 PM] HT☆Rock: But I can read Japanese, so I can try to figure out what the documentation says
- [2016-07-05 7:12:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: So defensive prowess does exactly what I suspected it does. Cool. If the website Johnny linked is right, I might suggest an attacking prowess buff to be honest. In particular the "fast reactions to loose balls" part interests me.
- One nerf for golds (or perhaps all players) we could look at is nerfing finishing. If that really does only change the success ration, and not any actual AI decision-making, it might help with the ridiculous goals per game averages while not making the gameplay uglier.
- [2016-07-05 7:13:32 PM] Background Pony: hmm, I dont think that sounds like a good idea
- [2016-07-05 7:13:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: If you nerf finishing you should offset it somehow to prevent extremely low scorelines
- [2016-07-05 7:13:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm not saying a big nerf
- [2016-07-05 7:14:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: just down to 95, 85, and 75 or something
- [2016-07-05 7:14:28 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 already nerfs strikers/finishing by a fair margin, IMO
- [2016-07-05 7:14:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: It does yes
- [2016-07-05 7:15:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: >tfw we need Goldtiger to save us
- [2016-07-05 7:16:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: I do really like the idea of making our own patch though
- [2016-07-05 7:16:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: Soryuu is a nip, and some of the /ag/ people speak moon
- [2016-07-05 7:16:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh I forgot about that red button flip mokey
- [2016-07-05 7:17:26 PM] Background Pony: I think a 4cc fanpatch is a good idea, but you need a ton of time to finetune it, as it sounds like it would be super easy to completely break the AI if you dont exactly know what youre doing
- [2016-07-05 7:17:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-05 7:17:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: Certainly not an option for summer, yeah
- [2016-07-05 7:17:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: but if we can get good, verified working translations then we can tear into it
- [2016-07-05 7:18:06 PM] Background Pony: like, it would be something to work on the moment PES17 becomes available for cup purposes
- [2016-07-05 7:18:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-05 7:18:51 PM] Background Pony: so you have several months to finetune it
- [2016-07-05 7:18:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: I think we should shoot to have one for Autumn though
- [2016-07-05 7:19:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: as a working proof of concept for PES17
- [2016-07-05 7:19:46 PM] Background Pony: but still then, I think youre going to end up with the same problem we'll probably end up with here, and that's that we all kind of have a different view on what kind of games we want to see
- [2016-07-05 7:20:27 PM] Background Pony: the best we can do is some kind of compromise
- [2016-07-05 7:29:36 PM] King Lear: MarcoZ - Today at 7:29 PM
- I made pes crash
- Good sign, good sign.
- [2016-07-05 7:29:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
- [2016-07-05 7:49:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: lear you should do a fake announcement that we're doing 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:49:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: >fake
- [2016-07-05 7:50:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: Lear you should announce that we are doing 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:50:00 PM] King Lear: >fake
- [2016-07-05 7:50:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: ok I concur and so does feedback that's 3/9 good enough let's do it
- [2016-07-05 7:50:26 PM] King Lear: You're right Carma. It isn't fair that the managers here get a headstart on Summer's rules.
- [2016-07-05 7:50:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: I don't have PES installed right now
- [2016-07-05 7:50:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: so it's not unfair
- [2016-07-05 7:50:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: but it would be more fair to go to 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:51:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm stealing the /po/ magic box
- [2016-07-05 7:51:19 PM | Edited 7:52:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm going to run a mirror trogdor
- [2016-07-05 7:51:20 PM] King Lear: Well Carma I was referring to the fact that since we know we're on 1.12 sitting on it is rude.
- [2016-07-05 7:51:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh right of course
- [2016-07-05 7:51:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh right
- [2016-07-05 7:51:36 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to run /pol/
- [2016-07-05 7:51:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: >every team is gigantic S shapes
- [2016-07-05 7:51:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm running sexcopter 3-6-1
- [2016-07-05 7:51:55 PM] HT☆Rock: Windmills of love and tolerance
- [2016-07-05 7:52:07 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm running the Kageyama lightning bolt
- [2016-07-05 7:52:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm running the mcbox
- [2016-07-05 7:53:10 PM] Background Pony: I'm running away as fast as I can
- [2016-07-05 7:53:36 PM] HT☆Rock: And I ran
- [2016-07-05 7:53:39 PM] HT☆Rock: I ran so far away
- [2016-07-05 7:53:41 PM] HT☆Rock: I just ran
- [2016-07-05 7:53:45 PM] HT☆Rock: I ran all night and day
- [2016-07-05 7:53:48 PM] HT☆Rock: (couldn't get away)
- [2016-07-05 7:54:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm taking ht's memeing as acceptance and smulel would say yes so that's a 5/9 majority for 1.12 glad we could come to such a clean decision with days to go good job everyone
- [2016-07-05 7:54:25 PM] HT☆Rock: my memeing is not acceptance
- [2016-07-05 7:54:29 PM] HT☆Rock: quite the opposite
- [2016-07-05 7:54:32 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:54:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: I ran all night and day
- I ran from Harambe
- Who couldn't get away
- [2016-07-05 7:54:40 PM] HT☆Rock: It's literally why I'm an alcoholic now
- [2016-07-05 7:54:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: you've literally never conceded on that patch though
- [2016-07-05 7:54:53 PM] HT☆Rock: PTSD from Group /b/an/e/
- [2016-07-05 7:55:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: sou straight up told me he rolled d20s for the final game and won 2-0 to go through
- [2016-07-05 7:55:26 PM] HT☆Rock: which is why I drink
- [2016-07-05 7:56:46 PM] King Lear: fuck 1.12Since I have decided you are tsundere I am taking this as a vote in favour.
- [2016-07-05 7:56:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
- [2016-07-05 7:57:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: (clap)
- [2016-07-05 7:57:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: (mm)
- [2016-07-05 7:57:44 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 5, 2016 7:56 PM] King Lear:
- <<< Since I have decided you are tsundere I am taking this as a vote in favour.*bites thumb*
- [2016-07-05 7:57:56 PM] HT☆Rock: no but seriously, I don't want to go to 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:58:10 PM] King Lear: So in favour:
- Me
- Carma
- JB
- HT
- Feedback
- Smugleaf
- Tim
- Against:
- Literally no-one
- Abstaining:
- BGP
- [2016-07-05 7:58:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 7:57 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< no but seriously, I[July 5, 2016 7:57 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< want to go to 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:58:17 PM] HT☆Rock: I abstain
- [2016-07-05 7:58:20 PM] HT☆Rock: I ABSTAIN
- [2016-07-05 7:58:38 PM] Smugleaf: 1.12 on PES16?
- [2016-07-05 7:58:41 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- [July 5, 2016 7:58 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< I ABSTAIN...from not wanting to go to 1.12
- [2016-07-05 7:58:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: on pes 14, smulel
- [2016-07-05 7:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: you're just in time for the big decision
- [2016-07-05 7:58:52 PM] Smugleaf: Now see
- [2016-07-05 7:58:57 PM] Smugleaf: This is exactly why I'm here
- [2016-07-05 7:59:05 PM] Smugleaf: I'm just the aesthetics council rep
- [2016-07-05 7:59:12 PM] Smugleaf: And my duty is to say
- [2016-07-05 7:59:17 PM] Smugleaf: fukyou
- [2016-07-05 7:59:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: and 1.12 had great aesthetics just look at all those old anime faces weren't those great
- [2016-07-05 7:59:29 PM] Smugleaf: We're not going back off PES16
- [2016-07-05 7:59:30 PM] Smugleaf: :P
- [2016-07-05 7:59:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: then we need a fan patch to make 1.12 happen in PES16
- [2016-07-05 7:59:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: there is
- [2016-07-05 7:59:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's called yair
- [2016-07-05 7:59:57 PM] Smugleaf: yairanaika
- [2016-07-05 8:00:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: gold defender confirmed
- [2016-07-05 8:00:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: why haven't we made the change then
- [2016-07-05 8:00:18 PM] HT☆Rock: TRIGGERED
- [2016-07-05 8:00:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I'M TRIGGERED
- [2016-07-05 8:00:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: vanilla yairpatch plus 88 def prow how perfect
- [2016-07-05 8:00:25 PM] Background Pony: tuck me in, let me die
- [2016-07-05 8:00:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: this sounds glorious
- [2016-07-05 8:00:52 PM] Feedback: if the cup's gonna die, you might as well go out screaming
- [2016-07-05 8:01:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: you may as well go out memeing
- [2016-07-05 8:01:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: >screaming
- [2016-07-05 8:01:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: you mean slurping
- [2016-07-05 8:01:23 PM] Smugleaf: scremeing
- [2016-07-05 8:01:32 PM] Smugleaf: It's like screaming and memeing combined
- [2016-07-05 8:01:34 PM | Edited 8:01:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
- [2016-07-05 8:01:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: when the meme so supreme you let out a scream
- [2016-07-05 8:01:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
- [2016-07-05 8:02:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: smulel honestly you could just reinstall all those lod's and we go to 15 hahaha right
- [2016-07-05 8:02:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: r-right?
- [2016-07-05 8:08:52 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147367921/4ccg-hr-edition#p147568370
- [2016-07-05 8:09:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: (chuckle)
- [2016-07-05 8:09:46 PM] HT☆Rock: you cheeky sonuvabitch
- [2016-07-05 8:10:08 PM | Edited 8:10:23 PM] King Lear: I think the write-up is convincing enough.
- [2016-07-05 8:10:35 PM] Smugleaf: [July 5, 2016 8:02 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< smulel honestly you could just reinstall all those lod's and we go to 15 hahaha rightmemes aside, LODs need to be hand made and are separate from the usual model
- [2016-07-05 8:10:44 PM] Smugleaf: So every model in the cup would be broken
- [2016-07-05 8:10:45 PM] Smugleaf: So no
- [2016-07-05 8:11:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: >lists 11 votes
- >10 people in here
- [2016-07-05 8:11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: aw sonovabitch torres got a vote
- [2016-07-05 8:11:51 PM] King Lear: I counted Tim as a vote in favour.
- [2016-07-05 8:12:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh right of course how could I forget
- [2016-07-05 8:12:14 PM] King Lear: I mean we are searching for his gold.
- [2016-07-05 8:12:21 PM] King Lear: I took this as a sign we found it.
- [2016-07-05 8:12:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: >/mu/ won gold on 1.12
- >the search for 1.12
- !!
- [2016-07-05 8:13:21 PM] King Lear: How deep does the rabbit hole go?
- [2016-07-05 8:14:30 PM] Smugleaf: I've had enough of this, I'm telling the real rules council that you guys are trying to ruin the cup with 1.12
- [2016-07-05 8:14:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: >the real rules council
- [2016-07-05 8:14:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: come fight me in the dark
- [2016-07-05 8:15:24 PM] Smugleaf: [July 5, 2016 8:14 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< >the real rules councilYeah it's the /mlp/ one
- [2016-07-05 8:15:29 PM] Smugleaf: We run this shit :^]
- [2016-07-05 8:15:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: >not even using the horse smiley
- [2016-07-05 8:15:52 PM | Edited 8:15:54 PM] King Lear: Oh I assumed you meant you were going to PM Durgen.
- [2016-07-05 8:16:15 PM] Smugleaf: >implying Dr"Rainbow"BorisG isn't still the commish
- [2016-07-05 8:17:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: >open /f/ to alter def prow to test
- >multiple medals have fucked prowess
- [2016-07-05 8:20:18 PM] HT☆Rock: /f/ is one of two or three teams that remembers we can actually fuck with prowesses
- [2016-07-05 8:20:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah but lowering it has no benefit, you just rig yourself
- [2016-07-05 8:21:15 PM] HT☆Rock: something something lowering defensive prowess on gold strikers makes them stay up something
- [2016-07-05 8:21:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: another thing: in NGE when you alter a stat there's a second column of stats that get altered based on your changes. Upping def prow only ups the "covering" combined ability http://puu.sh/pRGsB/6b58811490.png
- [2016-07-05 8:21:34 PM] HT☆Rock: do not doubt the drug-influenced brilliance of sou
- [2016-07-05 8:21:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: actually no not only that
- [2016-07-05 8:21:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: it affects intercepting as well
- [2016-07-05 8:21:59 PM] Smugleaf: RigIt has a function that set all stats at 77/88/99
- [2016-07-05 8:22:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: but +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 covering
- [2016-07-05 8:22:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: just something I'm noticing
- [2016-07-05 8:22:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: something something lowering defensive prowess on gold strikers makes them stay up somethingthis was thought at one point but I thought people figured out that it's just their abilities and not their tendencies
- [2016-07-05 8:25:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] Smugleaf:
- <<< RigIt has a function that set all stats at 77/88/99Yeah but it leaves the prowesses because you're allowed to leave those lower
- [2016-07-05 8:26:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: >using the editor that nerfs your team if it's not /mlp/
- t. paranoia
- [2016-07-05 8:26:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< but +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 coveringSo what do we do to improve intercepting? That's the one that's more appealing to improve, right?
- [2016-07-05 8:26:45 PM] King Lear: Is that the most recent version you're using? I brought that up to Bent and he said he'd change it. Might not have gotten around to it though.
- [2016-07-05 8:27:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: ohI haven't installed a new rigit since 0.3 or whatever
- [2016-07-05 8:27:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: intercepting is more greatly affected by the "ball winning" stat than the def prow stat
- [2016-07-05 8:27:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: hmm
- [2016-07-05 8:27:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: but ball winning sucks, doesn't it?
- [2016-07-05 8:28:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: it has the 4/3 ratio of defprow to covering
- [2016-07-05 8:28:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't even know if these combined abilities actually mean anything in-game
- [2016-07-05 8:28:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-05 8:28:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: at worst though they're more insight into what stats change though
- [2016-07-05 8:30:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: so if def prow increases don't have the extent of an effect we'd like, ball winning would likely be the next stat to consider
- [2016-07-05 8:30:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah.
- [2016-07-05 8:31:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: speed and explosiveness might help but they'd also improve offensive ability so
- [2016-07-05 8:31:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: playing around with different numbers confirms that it's a bell curve stat scale
- changing stats has a greater effect in the high 70s
- [2016-07-05 8:31:57 PM] Collie Bro: shit I forgot I was part of this
- [2016-07-05 8:32:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: so we should try like 80 def prow/ball winning?
- [2016-07-05 8:32:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: 80 or 81 was what we were discussing, yeah
- [2016-07-05 8:32:40 PM] King Lear: It's okay Collie we love you even though you voted against the new rules change.
- [2016-07-05 8:33:10 PM] Collie Bro: So... when I see "you are loved"... anon is telling the truth??
- [2016-07-05 8:33:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
- [2016-07-05 8:33:34 PM] Collie Bro: Also yeah I'm totally fine with PES14 1.12, as long as that pastebin wasn't a total ruse
- [2016-07-05 8:33:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: these seem to be averaged too
- [2016-07-05 8:34:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: Smugleaf is insisting on PES15 still
- [2016-07-05 8:34:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: if you put def prow to 99 but leave everything else at 77 you'll get 84 and 94 in the affected stats
- [2016-07-05 8:34:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: for some reason
- [2016-07-05 8:34:10 PM] King Lear: Another vote in favour.
- [2016-07-05 8:34:19 PM] Collie Bro: tbh I really want to go back to PES15 and would vote for that
- [2016-07-05 8:34:30 PM] Collie Bro: but I understand wanting to keep things fresh
- [2016-07-05 8:35:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: from what I understand
- [2016-07-05 8:35:02 PM] Collie Bro: I just wish I could've been in an elite PES15 cup so I could win it :^ )
- [2016-07-05 8:35:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we kill smulel
- [2016-07-05 8:35:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: we can go back to pes 15
- [2016-07-05 8:35:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: >Uncucking Tony
- [2016-07-05 8:35:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: are you sure about that
- [2016-07-05 8:35:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: no like actually murder him and make someone willing to do the bitchwork of lod's again aesco head
- [2016-07-05 8:39:22 PM] HT☆Rock: Make Tenko do it
- [2016-07-05 8:39:29 PM] HT☆Rock: so he doesn't eat a bullet or rape a child or something
- [2016-07-05 8:41:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: by elimination (setting various things to 99 until the combined ability is 99):
- -affects "Intercepting": explosive power, defprow, ball winning
- -affects "Covering": speed, defprow
- [2016-07-05 8:41:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: and then there's several stats for speed and strength, particularly in the air
- [2016-07-05 8:42:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean if we want to reduce overhead throughball mania
- [2016-07-05 8:42:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: we could try explosive power
- [2016-07-05 8:42:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: explosive power has a very low multiplier but affects many stats
- [2016-07-05 8:43:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd rather not touch it before other things
- [2016-07-05 8:43:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah. I'm just thinking as a way to help them get out in front of the strikers after they mounumentallly fuck up an offside trap
- [2016-07-05 8:43:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pRHDx/f7756de589.png
- [2016-07-05 8:43:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: here's the effect of 99 exp power and 77 everything else
- [2016-07-05 8:48:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: wew
- [2016-07-05 8:48:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: >improves penalties
- [2016-07-05 8:48:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: what the fuck
- [2016-07-05 8:48:57 PM | Edited 8:48:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
- [2016-07-05 8:49:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: runs in place
- [2016-07-05 8:49:30 PM] Collie Bro: We need to mod in the Zaza penalty
- [2016-07-05 8:49:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh god
- [2016-07-05 8:49:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: yes
- [2016-07-05 8:49:43 PM | Edited 8:49:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: lmao
- [2016-07-05 9:12:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: >first game on 81 defprow is 2-1 and features a backheel and a bicycle kicked corner volley
- [2016-07-05 9:12:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: all of my (mm)
- [2016-07-05 9:13:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
- [2016-07-05 9:13:37 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 8:12 PM
- > >first game on 81 defprow is 2-1 and features a backheel and a bicycle kicked corner volley
- What medal statline?
- [2016-07-05 9:14:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88
- [2016-07-05 9:14:45 PM] HT☆Rock: Ah
- [2016-07-05 9:15:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: certainly keep 99s if we're doing a specific boost imo
- [2016-07-05 9:15:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: if it stays like that, I'll happily throw my hat in behind it
- [2016-07-05 9:25:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: carma what did you do to bateman to make him a setpiece wizard
- [2016-07-05 9:25:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: what
- [2016-07-05 9:26:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: he's scored off direct and indirect freekicks in this game
- [2016-07-05 9:26:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah he does that
- [2016-07-05 9:26:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: beautiful stuff
- [2016-07-05 9:26:32 PM | Edited 9:26:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: no idea how though
- [2016-07-05 9:26:42 PM] HT☆Rock: Meme magic
- [2016-07-05 9:29:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Isn't Bateman height abuse?
- [2016-07-05 9:29:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
- [2016-07-05 9:29:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: he was in 15
- [2016-07-05 9:31:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pRK9n/dc217ca35c.jpg
- [2016-07-05 9:31:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: n e v e r e v e r
- [2016-07-05 9:31:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: goddamnit
- [2016-07-05 9:49:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: lads
- [2016-07-05 9:49:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: why are we going to 1.12 when we could go to PES13 and get rid of height rules
- [2016-07-05 9:50:35 PM] Feedback: why not both
- [2016-07-05 9:50:42 PM] Feedback: group stages, PES13 w/o heights
- [2016-07-05 9:50:46 PM] Feedback: knockouts, PES14 1.12
- [2016-07-05 9:52:03 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 5, 2016 9:31 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< n e v e r e v e rlaughinggoldenman.png
- [2016-07-06 6:38:38 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 7:01 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< >it's in JapaneseThe vanilla code too is in japanese.
- [2016-07-06 6:39:05 AM] Myuer: I'd avoid buffing some abilities only for one motive, exports clusterfucks
- [2016-07-06 6:43:49 AM] Myuer: I'd be totally up for 80-90-95, seems the most reasonable choice
- [2016-07-06 6:46:14 AM] Myuer: We should reserve the fanpatch option if PES17 will have denuvo.
- [2016-07-06 6:48:21 AM] Background Pony: I disagree. 80/90/95 isn't very fun to watch.
- [2016-07-06 9:44:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSgM4/de2afac0f9.txt here's what I did last night
- [2016-07-06 9:45:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: 80/90/95 isn't very fun to watchtrue, imo it sacrifices too much gameplay to get its' results
- [2016-07-06 9:46:37 AM] JohnnyBravo: I really like the def prowess bump games I watched
- [2016-07-06 9:47:06 AM] Duke Silver: Some of those games (The s4s-f one especially) look like defenders did a good job of getting in front of shots
- [2016-07-06 9:47:18 AM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88/77 on 1.04 was already the most entertaining option, and the def prowess bumps seemed to improve defense without making everything murderball and keeping scorelines reasonable but fun
- [2016-07-06 9:47:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: yeah you could definitely see the increased coverage
- [2016-07-06 9:47:47 AM] JohnnyBravo: I wouldn't touch keepers on this as they seemed about right. I got a 7 save game.
- [2016-07-06 9:48:06 AM] Duke Silver: Were keepers still Form 4 on this?
- [2016-07-06 9:48:23 AM] JohnnyBravo: defenders are much better at blocking, closing down in the final third, and forcing weaker shots
- [2016-07-06 9:48:27 AM | Edited 9:48:26 AM] JohnnyBravo: I believe these keepers were form 4
- [2016-07-06 9:49:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: just checked and they were
- [2016-07-06 9:49:48 AM] Duke Silver: So just to confirm (Sorry, brain not working right this morning) There's NO other stat compression here? Just the defensive prowess bumps?
- [2016-07-06 9:50:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: pass completion was better than in the other games I watched (namely compared to 80/90/95)
- [2016-07-06 9:50:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes
- [2016-07-06 9:50:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: this is standard ruleset with defprow 81
- [2016-07-06 9:50:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: that's why I used 4 new teams to save time lel
- [2016-07-06 9:51:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: the lob attempts when there aren't any other options still exist, but they aren't as common and are cut out far more often. Defenders also got seemingly better at playing offsides
- [2016-07-06 9:52:40 AM] Duke Silver: And this would only affect bronze players, no bump to defensive prowess on silvers?
- [2016-07-06 9:53:12 AM] JohnnyBravo: correct
- [2016-07-06 9:53:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: didn't touch medals
- [2016-07-06 10:29:54 AM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 9:44 AM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< https://puu.sh/pSgM4/de2afac0f9.txt here's what I did last nightseems good
- [2016-07-06 10:32:58 AM] Myuer: but let me get this straight, you put that ability on all no medals or only defenders?
- [2016-07-06 10:33:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: all nonmedals
- [2016-07-06 10:33:20 AM] Duke Silver: I think we were pretty against position-specific buffs
- [2016-07-06 10:33:26 AM] Myuer: so everyone had 81 in def and 80 in covering
- [2016-07-06 10:33:30 AM] JohnnyBravo: so /gd/ had it on >>>/r/ for instance
- [2016-07-06 10:33:33 AM] Myuer: since if you buff that, it buffs covering too
- [2016-07-06 10:33:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: 81 in defprow makes covering go up, yes
- [2016-07-06 10:34:30 AM] Myuer: buffs a little too interception if I remember correctly
- [2016-07-06 10:34:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 covering
- [2016-07-06 10:35:30 AM] Myuer: so for having 80 in interception you need like 85 in defensive prowess
- [2016-07-06 10:36:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: sure, but these boosts felt plenty sufficient. 85 defprow probably gets too slurpy.
- [2016-07-06 10:37:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: defprow has a very low multiplier as far as impacting intercepting
- [2016-07-06 10:37:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: speed and ball winning have greater effects
- [2016-07-06 10:38:22 AM] Myuer: well if you want I can run some testings
- [2016-07-06 10:38:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: can you try 80 in both defprow and ball winning
- I want to see if ball winning boosts make it too much murderball
- [2016-07-06 10:39:00 AM] Myuer: k
- [2016-07-06 10:39:27 AM] Myuer: I see which teams to pick up
- [2016-07-06 10:39:50 AM] JohnnyBravo: because I feel 77 is a nicely comfortable tackling level, but I just want to see 80
- [2016-07-06 10:40:07 AM] Myuer: how many matches and how many teams?
- [2016-07-06 10:40:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: 1.04 fixed a lot of the tackling spaghetti 1.03 had
- [2016-07-06 10:40:12 AM] JohnnyBravo: you decide
- [2016-07-06 10:40:44 AM] Myuer: I see if I recover winter /u/ somewhere and take other teams from winter and spring
- [2016-07-06 10:41:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: why remake (assuming you've made new tictacs) /u/ when you could just grab /v/ (^:
- [2016-07-06 10:41:24 AM] Myuer: Yeah, I could take /v/ infact
- [2016-07-06 10:42:03 AM] Myuer: 81 in both abilites?
- [2016-07-06 10:42:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: 80
- [2016-07-06 10:42:33 AM] Myuer: k
- [2016-07-06 11:30:22 AM] Myuer: /out/, /r9k/ and /v/ taken. I miss only one team to decide
- [2016-07-06 11:31:07 AM] Myuer: I'll take /s/
- [2016-07-06 11:33:47 AM] Myuer: do I put form 8 for keepers too
- [2016-07-06 11:33:49 AM] Myuer: or leave it to 4?
- [2016-07-06 11:34:23 AM] JohnnyBravo: may as well do 4 for consistency. mono-orange conditions so it doesn't matter much though
- [2016-07-06 11:34:28 AM] Myuer: k
- [2016-07-06 12:07:13 PM] Myuer: first game on, first impression is that the 77 players are def more on spot
- [2016-07-06 12:07:33 PM] Myuer: not even slurpy match
- [2016-07-06 12:18:01 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSonS/c80942c56b.jpg wew
- [2016-07-06 12:18:38 PM] Duke Silver: Five shots on target, six saves, no goals. wew.
- [2016-07-06 12:20:05 PM] Myuer: throughballs still happens, but defense and gk are a bit more on spot
- [2016-07-06 12:20:41 PM] Myuer: that game was very fun to watch tbh
- [2016-07-06 12:21:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: I like where we're going with this
- [2016-07-06 12:21:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: single-stat boosts sound much more entertaining to me
- [2016-07-06 12:27:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, because I do like the play on 77/88/99
- [2016-07-06 12:27:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: me too
- [2016-07-06 12:27:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we can make it a bit better at defense while keeping that base idea that would be ideal
- [2016-07-06 12:27:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's just a little exaggerated in places
- [2016-07-06 12:29:31 PM] Myuer: but 2many goals 2 matches in and 11 goals in total
- [2016-07-06 12:34:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: on what you're testing?
- [2016-07-06 12:34:37 PM] Myuer: 77(with 80 in def prow and winning ball)/88/99
- [2016-07-06 12:35:03 PM | Edited 12:35:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, you're saying those settings are scoring a lot?
- [2016-07-06 12:35:04 PM] Myuer: doing 3rd match now, almost done
- [2016-07-06 12:35:10 PM] Myuer: /r9k/ v /out/
- http://puu.sh/pSonS/c80942c56b.jpg
- 5-0
- 9(8) - 7(5)
- 6 saves - 3 saves
- 78% - 82%
- /v/ v /s/
- http://puu.sh/pSpbG/5c7a1cf477.jpg
- 4-2
- 5(4) - 8(4)
- 3 saves - 0 saves
- 89% - 85%
- [2016-07-06 12:35:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: ball winning also affects physical strength
- [2016-07-06 12:35:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: those don't look -bad-, just a little high scoring
- [2016-07-06 12:35:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: >(8)
- [2016-07-06 12:35:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: goddamnit skype
- [2016-07-06 12:35:52 PM] Myuer: it's 8 carma
- [2016-07-06 12:35:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: I know
- [2016-07-06 12:36:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: I know it's a small sample but I had 4 or less in every game but 1 on 81 defprow
- [2016-07-06 12:36:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: maybe not touch ball winning then
- [2016-07-06 12:36:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: not like tackling was the issue, it was always more about positioning
- [2016-07-06 12:37:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-06 12:39:39 PM] Myuer: well a lot of throughballs are stopped
- [2016-07-06 12:40:33 PM] Myuer: Also every game was very fun to watch
- [2016-07-06 1:08:45 PM] Myuer: done
- [2016-07-06 1:08:53 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSrmD/dd203030c9.txt
- [2016-07-06 1:09:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: I miss the days of 90% pass completion
- [2016-07-06 1:09:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: I had 90% a few times on my settings
- [2016-07-06 1:09:42 PM] Myuer: 5,75 saves per match
- [2016-07-06 1:09:45 PM] Myuer: I mean
- [2016-07-06 1:09:46 PM] Myuer: in average*
- [2016-07-06 1:09:48 PM | Edited 1:09:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: you just have to work for it
- [2016-07-06 1:10:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: so looking at this my inclination is to leave ball winning alone if we can
- [2016-07-06 1:10:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: and to try like 83 defprow maybe so we can compare to 81
- [2016-07-06 1:10:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: yaeh me too tbh
- [2016-07-06 1:10:56 PM] Myuer: 83 def prow and 77 winning ball?
- [2016-07-06 1:11:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
- [2016-07-06 1:11:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: same teams for comparison I suppose
- [2016-07-06 1:12:32 PM] Myuer: k I'm going to modify that
- [2016-07-06 1:13:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: /out/ really sucked in that lel
- [2016-07-06 1:13:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: did you have them on preset 2?
- [2016-07-06 1:13:20 PM] Myuer: yeah
- [2016-07-06 1:13:24 PM] Myuer: yup
- [2016-07-06 1:13:36 PM] Myuer: /s/
- c/s/c/m/5/medium
- f/m/a/4/7/medium
- /r9k/
- Preset 1 fluid on
- C, S, C, Maintain, 3, Many
- Flp, mid, agg, 3, 7, medium
- /out/
- Preset 2
- Counter - Short - Centre - Maintain - 3 - Medium
- FLP - Middle - Aggressive - 3 - 9 - Many
- /v/
- Counter - Short - Centre - Maintain - 7 - Medium
- FLP - Middle - Aggressive - 2 - 9 - Many
- [2016-07-06 1:13:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: huh
- [2016-07-06 1:16:12 PM] Myuer: did I do something wrong?
- [2016-07-06 1:17:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: No
- [2016-07-06 1:17:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: You forgot the /out/ meme magic I guess (^:
- [2016-07-06 1:23:44 PM] Myuer: ok put 83
- [2016-07-06 1:23:56 PM] Myuer: Those will come a bit later, sadly I have other stuff to do as well
- [2016-07-06 1:25:04 PM] Myuer: Hope it won't be a problem
- [2016-07-06 3:14:15 PM] Myuer: ok resuming now
- [2016-07-06 3:23:04 PM] Myuer: I love how with 83 there is a lot of fight for the ball.
- [2016-07-06 3:23:18 PM] Myuer: Defenders are more able to steal the ball from golds
- [2016-07-06 3:46:29 PM] Myuer: le12goalmatchhasarrived http://puu.sh/pSBor/5b1ba1cc74.jpg
- [2016-07-06 3:47:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: lol /out/
- [2016-07-06 3:49:21 PM] Collie Bro: I think part of the problem is literally every shot is on target most games
- [2016-07-06 3:49:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't have that myself
- [2016-07-06 3:50:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: that said we could look into lowering finishing
- [2016-07-06 3:50:12 PM] Collie Bro: ^
- [2016-07-06 3:50:20 PM] Myuer: well running last match
- [2016-07-06 3:50:24 PM] Myuer: aside from that 4-8
- [2016-07-06 3:50:36 PM] Myuer: The other 2 were a bit resonable
- [2016-07-06 3:50:41 PM] Myuer: /r9k/ v /out/
- http://puu.sh/pStFg/5bc868f802.jpg
- 3-2
- 11(7) - 6(5)
- 82% - 74%
- 4 saves - 2 saves
- /v/ v /s/
- http://puu.sh/pSAn5/35f33569c3.jpg
- 1-3
- 5(4) - 9(7)
- 77% - 83%
- 4 saves - 3 saves
- [2016-07-06 3:51:16 PM] Background Pony: Loadsegoals games are going to happen regardless. Trying to compensate against that will just make regular matches shit.
- [2016-07-06 3:51:39 PM] Background Pony: that's been the general trend I've noticed the past week or so
- [2016-07-06 3:51:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: there are quite a few saves in this even with a good proportion of shots being on target
- [2016-07-06 3:52:08 PM] Myuer: for now out of 3 matches
- [2016-07-06 3:52:11 PM] Myuer: I have 20 saves in total
- [2016-07-06 3:52:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: bgp have you ran any games with boosted defprow yet
- [2016-07-06 3:52:47 PM] Background Pony: no, I havent yet. I had no time today and I like to do all the games in one sitting.
- [2016-07-06 3:52:59 PM] Myuer: also def prow with 83, makes no medal more on spot
- [2016-07-06 3:53:01 PM] Background Pony: what values did you want me to test again?
- [2016-07-06 3:53:07 PM] Myuer: I saw gold lose the ball more from golds
- [2016-07-06 3:53:12 PM] Myuer: through balls being stopped
- [2016-07-06 3:53:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: also keep in mind that a) games with both managers testing are often lower scoring b) boris' pc for whatever reason seems different
- [2016-07-06 3:53:28 PM] Myuer: and more fight for the ball
- [2016-07-06 3:53:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh bgp try anywhere from 80 to 85 that you think would work
- [2016-07-06 3:53:41 PM] Myuer: I'd try 85 tbh
- [2016-07-06 3:53:47 PM] Myuer: or 84 at least
- [2016-07-06 3:53:58 PM] Background Pony: I think that when people test lots, they try to play safe, which means more defense/less goals.
- [2016-07-06 3:54:14 PM] Background Pony: only def prowess?
- [2016-07-06 3:54:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah unless you can think of another stat to try
- [2016-07-06 3:54:28 PM] Myuer: on the side of the matches, I'd say that all the match were fun to watch
- [2016-07-06 3:54:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't really feel like boosting ball winning would do a whole lot toward what we're looking for
- [2016-07-06 3:54:58 PM] Myuer: Def prow is definitely working
- [2016-07-06 3:55:02 PM] Myuer: but still golds manage a way to escape
- [2016-07-06 3:55:06 PM] Background Pony: that's good news
- [2016-07-06 3:55:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: that's good
- [2016-07-06 3:55:19 PM] Background Pony: golds will always find a way to escape. That's why they're golds.
- [2016-07-06 3:55:20 PM] Myuer: I mean, they are able to steal the ball from golds now
- [2016-07-06 3:55:26 PM] Myuer: but golds still finds a way
- [2016-07-06 3:55:31 PM] Myuer: find*
- [2016-07-06 3:56:00 PM] Myuer: They are more reactive, throughballs still happen mind this, but most of the time they are stopped
- [2016-07-06 3:56:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: try 85 defprow / 80 ballwinning maybe or is that too extreme
- [2016-07-06 3:56:18 PM] Myuer: if throughballs win it's because gold find the way
- [2016-07-06 3:56:59 PM] Myuer: I think my pes decided to do high scoring matches welp
- [2016-07-06 3:57:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: could be the teams I suppose
- [2016-07-06 3:57:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: /out/ are a sieve oftentimes and /r9k/ are very offensive
- [2016-07-06 3:57:30 PM] Myuer: r9k v s for now it's 4-3 ht
- [2016-07-06 4:07:01 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSCOu/4b58882c7f.txt wewlad that average goals
- [2016-07-06 4:15:47 PM] Myuer: well, the fact is we have little time to figure out what to do
- [2016-07-06 4:19:41 PM] Myuer: last matches were wewlad with those teams
- [2016-07-06 6:16:11 PM | Edited 6:20:25 PM] HT☆Rock: So D.Prowess doesn't seem to actually stop scorelines being run up like a dirty whore, which is the only reason we're actually here
- [2016-07-06 6:16:21 PM] HT☆Rock: while still 77s
- [2016-07-06 6:18:03 PM] HT☆Rock: unless a team goes full keeperbabby
- [2016-07-06 6:18:54 PM] HT☆Rock: It's also clear that high scoring games are considered more exciting
- [2016-07-06 6:22:19 PM] HT☆Rock: Because JB's sample size last night, compared to just vanilla settings, seem to have done jack and shit
- [2016-07-06 6:22:46 PM] HT☆Rock: And if that's considered good and exciting, why the fuck did we even bother testing anything?
- [2016-07-06 6:22:53 PM] Collie Bro: You seem to spend a lot of time thinking of JB's sample size
- [2016-07-06 6:23:02 PM] HT☆Rock: I like thinking of sizes
- [2016-07-06 6:23:05 PM] HT☆Rock: cock size
- [2016-07-06 6:23:07 PM] HT☆Rock: sample size
- [2016-07-06 6:23:09 PM] Collie Bro: :^ )
- [2016-07-06 6:23:14 PM] HT☆Rock: size of your mouth so I can fuck it
- [2016-07-06 6:23:40 PM] Collie Bro: but yeah I don't know whether we should fuck with individual stats
- [2016-07-06 6:23:52 PM] Collie Bro: unless we're almost unanimous about it
- [2016-07-06 6:33:46 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 6:22 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< And if that's considered good and exciting, why the fuck did we even bother testing anything?Not talking about goals
- [2016-07-06 6:34:06 PM] Myuer: Both teams fought a lot for conquering the ball, that's what made the match exiting.
- [2016-07-06 6:34:15 PM] Myuer: exciting*
- [2016-07-06 6:34:29 PM] Collie Bro: well fuck i get that just by turning on default 16
- [2016-07-06 6:34:38 PM] Collie Bro: maybe we should just do that then
- [2016-07-06 6:35:00 PM] Myuer: well, I never noticed the defender going to stop balls, or being able to steal the ball from golds
- [2016-07-06 6:35:07 PM] Myuer: going to cover more etc
- [2016-07-06 6:35:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: I saw clear improvement when I upped dprow
- [2016-07-06 6:36:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: And yes there will still be high scoring matches but that's what you get in 16
- [2016-07-06 6:36:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: You can't aim to control outliers because then the average game becomes boring
- [2016-07-06 6:36:42 PM] Myuer: They are definitely improvements with dprow being buffed
- [2016-07-06 6:38:28 PM] Myuer: Even with nerfing the golds we would get high scoring matches
- [2016-07-06 6:38:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: have we tried 88 def prow?
- [2016-07-06 6:38:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: just to see how far that goes
- [2016-07-06 6:38:43 PM] Myuer: wew lad no
- [2016-07-06 6:38:47 PM] Myuer: I didn't try it
- [2016-07-06 6:38:50 PM] Collie Bro: that might be a bit much don't you think
- [2016-07-06 6:39:01 PM] Collie Bro: but hey, why not if yall have time
- [2016-07-06 6:39:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: you don't know how far is too far until you've tried it~
- [2016-07-06 6:39:15 PM] Myuer: I agree with carma actually
- [2016-07-06 6:39:31 PM] Myuer: would be interesting to see that stats being that high and see what happens
- [2016-07-06 6:43:20 PM] Feedback: I've got free time, so I can probably do some tests on it.
- [2016-07-06 7:10:09 PM] Feedback: http://puu.sh/pSOBo/d1b08eb64f.jpg
- wew this first match
- [2016-07-06 7:10:43 PM] Collie Bro: this is going to be quite the ride for you
- [2016-07-06 7:10:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
- [2016-07-06 7:13:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: Well keepers sure are fine (^:
- [2016-07-06 7:14:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm going to look at a finishing nerf once I can in an hour or so
- [2016-07-06 7:14:43 PM] Collie Bro: I can help with that one
- [2016-07-06 7:14:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: Because a 20 shot game is perfect tbh
- [2016-07-06 7:14:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's pes 15 levels
- [2016-07-06 7:14:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-06 7:15:06 PM] Collie Bro: Pretty much
- [2016-07-06 7:15:19 PM | Edited 7:15:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just not having 15 of those be on target would go a long way
- [2016-07-06 7:15:40 PM] Collie Bro: so, what are you thinking? -5 finishing, or more?
- [2016-07-06 7:16:03 PM] Collie Bro: probably more tbh
- [2016-07-06 7:16:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: Scaled by medal like height abuse
- [2016-07-06 7:16:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-07-06 7:16:15 PM] Collie Bro: sure
- [2016-07-06 7:16:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: 5/4/3 or 4/3/2?
- [2016-07-06 7:16:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: -5, -4, -3/2 is probably a good place to start
- [2016-07-06 7:16:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'll test -7,-5,-3
- [2016-07-06 7:16:45 PM] Collie Bro: see if it's too far
- [2016-07-06 7:16:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok why not
- [2016-07-06 7:17:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Do it with nothing else changed first
- [2016-07-06 7:17:09 PM] Collie Bro: alright
- [2016-07-06 7:17:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: And I'll test that plus defprow
- [2016-07-06 7:17:26 PM] Collie Bro: on just 1.04?
- [2016-07-06 7:17:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yes, regular ruleset otherwise
- [2016-07-06 7:17:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: We want to see the effect of only nerfing finishing
- [2016-07-06 7:18:01 PM] Collie Bro: Alright, give me time to get some teams setup, I don't have the latest pastebin
- [2016-07-06 7:18:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: One variable basically
- [2016-07-06 7:21:38 PM] Collie Bro: hey, is there a blanket tactic I can use instead of the default mindgame sliders? Or should I go back to the archives and figure out what they use
- [2016-07-06 7:22:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: I suppose you could use the teams/sliders myuer posted a bit back
- [2016-07-06 7:22:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Or the ones I had
- [2016-07-06 7:22:46 PM] Feedback: oh fuck me, my controller disconnected in the beginning of a test
- [2016-07-06 7:23:12 PM] Collie Bro: k
- [2016-07-06 7:23:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: Feedback - Today 6:22 PM
- > oh fuck me, my controller disconnected in the beginning of a test
- paval pls
- [2016-07-06 7:23:49 PM] Feedback: I ought to take offense to that (^:
- [2016-07-06 7:24:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: wait what happens when a controller dcs
- [2016-07-06 7:24:14 PM] Feedback: coach mode for that team automatically goes off
- [2016-07-06 7:24:28 PM] Feedback: and you have to restart the match
- [2016-07-06 7:24:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: ew
- [2016-07-06 7:24:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sucks
- [2016-07-06 7:34:11 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 6:36 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< You can't aim to control outliers because then the average game becomes boring>half your four games
- >outliers
- fam...
- [2016-07-06 7:34:30 PM] Collie Bro: are there any teams I should include in this test or can I just pick whatever
- [2016-07-06 7:35:09 PM] HT☆Rock: And all of this dicking with single stats is already done with the systems we tested first
- [2016-07-06 7:35:47 PM] HT☆Rock: And a nebulous "golds aren't as fancy" complaint is causing us to chase our tails
- [2016-07-06 7:35:57 PM] Collie Bro: we haven't really tested lowering finishing yet, ht
- [2016-07-06 7:36:03 PM] Collie Bro: I think we should give it a go
- [2016-07-06 7:36:16 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes we did: the ding to finishing was a part of nerfing golds to 95
- [2016-07-06 7:36:22 PM] HT☆Rock: By default
- [2016-07-06 7:36:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Nerfing finishing will just cause golds to whiff maybe one more shot out of 10
- [2016-07-06 7:36:55 PM] Background Pony: This cup is for viewers. Most viewers don't give a shit about high score lines.
- [2016-07-06 7:37:02 PM] HT☆Rock: Then why the fuck are we here?
- [2016-07-06 7:37:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: fancy golds is a fundamental tenet of the 4cc system
- [2016-07-06 7:37:28 PM] Background Pony: To see if we can reduce the high score lines while not making the game boring.
- [2016-07-06 7:37:29 PM] Collie Bro: they do if it causes us to play hours of goalhorn/replays and thus run 10-hour cup days
- [2016-07-06 7:37:30 PM] HT☆Rock: Don't give me that "muh scorelines" shit when the reason this circlejerk exists is because of "muh scorelines"
- [2016-07-06 7:38:18 PM] HT☆Rock: fancy golds is a fundamental tenet of the 4cc systemgood golds are a fundamental tenet of the 4cc system. fanciness comes from cards we don't have the space to put on said golds
- [2016-07-06 7:38:37 PM] HT☆Rock: Like the movement and the skill trick cards very few people use
- [2016-07-06 7:38:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah cause they don't fuckin work
- [2016-07-06 7:38:56 PM] Background Pony: my original issue with PES16 was that there were high score lines, but many of the goals were caused by defensive spaghetti, and golds just running people over in the box and scoring.
- [2016-07-06 7:38:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's not our fault
- [2016-07-06 7:39:02 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 has fixed a lot of that.
- [2016-07-06 7:39:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: was VGL on 1.04?
- [2016-07-06 7:39:27 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 7:38 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< yeah cause they don't fuckin workMazing, Trickster, Speeding Bullet, CB&T, Scissors Feint, Heel Trick
- [2016-07-06 7:39:37 PM] HT☆Rock: VGL was on 1.04 vanilla, yes
- [2016-07-06 7:39:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: those first three are used all the time shut up
- [2016-07-06 7:39:52 PM] Background Pony: so now the goal is to try and see if we can reduce the scores without making the games boring to watch.
- [2016-07-06 7:40:21 PM] Collie Bro: I kinda like Heel Trick too, but I gave my AMFs Low Punt so what do I know
- [2016-07-06 7:40:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: Heel trick is popular too
- [2016-07-06 7:40:29 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 7:39 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< those first three are used all the time shut upI am literally the only motherfucker who put Trickster on their strikers
- [2016-07-06 7:40:39 PM] HT☆Rock: The most used is Speeding Bullet
- [2016-07-06 7:40:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: uhh no?
- [2016-07-06 7:40:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm like 90% positive I've had trickster on medals before
- [2016-07-06 7:41:20 PM] Background Pony: I'm pretty sure /fit/ and /out/ also had a trickster striker, but I'd have to check and I dont see the point of it
- [2016-07-06 7:41:23 PM] HT☆Rock: And I'm 90% positive you're full of shit and used Mazing Run or Speeding Bullet in 16
- [2016-07-06 7:41:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: mmm I'm pretty sure Keksandra was a Trickster
- [2016-07-06 7:41:44 PM] Feedback: I'm pretty sure I've had trickster on one of my golds this winter, and both of them were strikers
- [2016-07-06 7:42:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I think Ride mighta been
- [2016-07-06 7:43:12 PM] Background Pony: jeff mangum, smokey the bear and london had trickster in winter
- [2016-07-06 7:43:31 PM] HT☆Rock: I stand corrected, then
- [2016-07-06 7:44:16 PM] Background Pony: ultimately, I'd rather change too little than too much.
- [2016-07-06 7:44:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: me too
- [2016-07-06 7:45:23 PM] Background Pony: I'll run those tests with def prowess tomorrow, so I can compare to the tests without and have a rough idea how much it affects the overall game stats
- [2016-07-06 7:45:27 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose of this group is to make a noticeable change in scorelines
- [2016-07-06 7:45:43 PM] HT☆Rock: It doesn't matter if you think defenders look sharper if the scorelines are still vanilla high
- [2016-07-06 7:45:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: The purpose of this group is to improve the gameplay
- [2016-07-06 7:46:04 PM] HT☆Rock: If we were cool with how things were, then we'd just roll 99/88/77 1.04
- [2016-07-06 7:46:15 PM] HT☆Rock: That's not what Lear signed me up for
- [2016-07-06 7:46:22 PM] Background Pony: I'd be fine with that, personally. But whatever.
- [2016-07-06 7:46:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: if the only way we can reduce scorelines is by making the game play like shit, then we're stuck with high scorelines
- [2016-07-06 7:46:45 PM] Collie Bro: And I would like finishing not to be exceedingly high
- [2016-07-06 7:46:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's not an 'at all costs' kinda thing
- [2016-07-06 7:46:54 PM] Collie Bro: the result, not the stat, that is
- [2016-07-06 7:47:32 PM] HT☆Rock: The game does not play like shit with the sweeping changes made
- [2016-07-06 7:47:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: sez u
- [2016-07-06 7:47:51 PM] HT☆Rock: you are literally complaining about something that is prevalent in PES16 in general: lolthroughballs
- [2016-07-06 7:48:08 PM] HT☆Rock: nigger I am one of two people actually testing each system with real 4CC teams
- [2016-07-06 7:48:14 PM] HT☆Rock: the fuck have you done?
- [2016-07-06 7:48:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm perfectly ok with vanilla 99/88/77 1.04, personally.
- [2016-07-06 7:48:44 PM] HT☆Rock: If you want classy golds, you would run Moeshit, which tanks scorelines like whoa
- [2016-07-06 7:48:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: The game plays like shit on 80 nonmedals and is worse than vanilla with 95 golds
- [2016-07-06 7:49:12 PM] HT☆Rock: The game plays like shit on 99 golds and 80 nonmedals
- [2016-07-06 7:49:21 PM] Collie Bro: The game plays like shit
- [2016-07-06 7:49:29 PM] Background Pony: What JB said. The tests I ran on 80/90/95 and 81/90/99 didnt look particularly entertaining
- [2016-07-06 7:49:33 PM] HT☆Rock: Where the fuck are you getting the game is worse than vanilla with 95 golds from?
- [2016-07-06 7:49:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I really think if you selectively nerf finishing it can be better on vanilla
- [2016-07-06 7:49:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: The cup I did?
- [2016-07-06 7:49:48 PM] HT☆Rock: At this point the whole endeavor was pointless
- [2016-07-06 7:49:49 PM] Collie Bro: ^
- [2016-07-06 7:49:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: It was boring to watch
- [2016-07-06 7:49:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: if you feel that way, then leave
- [2016-07-06 7:49:59 PM] HT☆Rock: You fucks want vanilla
- [2016-07-06 7:50:08 PM] HT☆Rock: You first, cocksucker
- [2016-07-06 7:50:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: The tests I did last night? Really entertaining
- [2016-07-06 7:50:19 PM] HT☆Rock: which was vanilla
- [2016-07-06 7:50:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: Plus defprow
- [2016-07-06 7:50:26 PM] HT☆Rock: with a D.Pro bump
- [2016-07-06 7:50:31 PM] HT☆Rock: and the same scorelines
- [2016-07-06 7:50:56 PM] HT☆Rock: So we should just run 1.04 vanilla
- [2016-07-06 7:51:02 PM | Edited 7:51:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: Who cares about scorelines? /4ccg/ autists who think that's the only thing that matters?
- [2016-07-06 7:51:17 PM] HT☆Rock: What part of THAT'S THE REASON WE"RE HERE do you not understand?
- [2016-07-06 7:51:22 PM] HT☆Rock: You fucking fraud
- [2016-07-06 7:51:27 PM] Feedback: [July 6, 2016 7:51 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< Who cares about scorelines? /4ccg/ autistic who think that's the only thing that matters?the problem with high scorelines imo is just that it makes gamedays too long
- [2016-07-06 7:51:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: It's not the only reason
- [2016-07-06 7:51:31 PM] Background Pony: I said from the start that I was fine with vanilla 1.04. But that doesnt mean I'm not open for other possibilities/ideas. Just that I dont want to panic and change shit for the sake of changing shit.
- [2016-07-06 7:51:41 PM] Feedback: which in turn is taxing on the streamers/viewers etc
- [2016-07-06 7:51:48 PM] HT☆Rock: If the scorelines were fine, we wouldn't have this council and I wouldn't have wasted three weeks on a wild goose chase
- [2016-07-06 7:51:50 PM] Collie Bro: THANK YOU feedback
- [2016-07-06 7:52:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: I agree scorelines are too high
- [2016-07-06 7:52:11 PM] HT☆Rock: And the games you like have super high scorelines
- [2016-07-06 7:52:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: But I'd rather leave them there than make games boring
- [2016-07-06 7:52:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: scorelines are going to be lower in summer than they were in spring because of the nature of the elite/babby cup system
- [2016-07-06 7:52:29 PM] Collie Bro: Three goals in a game is not fucking boring
- [2016-07-06 7:52:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yeah look at winter vs spring
- [2016-07-06 7:52:37 PM] HT☆Rock: Bullshit they will, carma
- [2016-07-06 7:52:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: It's about how you get there
- [2016-07-06 7:52:43 PM] Background Pony: skip the last (slowmo) part of the replay, then.
- [2016-07-06 7:52:44 PM] Feedback: question is, will the viewers think the games are boring?
- [2016-07-06 7:52:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: Not "look we got X goals isn't this great"
- [2016-07-06 7:52:59 PM] HT☆Rock: High offense wins 16 unless you are running a possession game like /po/ in JB's cup or /e/ in mine
- [2016-07-06 7:53:25 PM] HT☆Rock: The most throughball happy teams consistently do well
- [2016-07-06 7:53:29 PM] Background Pony: I think teams like /fit/ would like a word with that
- [2016-07-06 7:53:49 PM] Background Pony: in my experience defensive teams just eat super offensive teams for breakfast
- [2016-07-06 7:53:55 PM] HT☆Rock: Nigger /fit/ ran C/S/C/Many with med defense IN JB'S OWN TEST CUP
- [2016-07-06 7:53:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: Our best games in winter came on possession
- [2016-07-06 7:54:06 PM] HT☆Rock: pay attention to the fucking data we're given
- [2016-07-06 7:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: I just put us on our cup final tactics because that's what I had on hand
- [2016-07-06 7:54:26 PM] HT☆Rock: and it consistently destroyed
- [2016-07-06 7:54:29 PM] Collie Bro: Good balanced teams > offensive teams > mediocre balanced teams
- [2016-07-06 7:54:32 PM] HT☆Rock: I wonder if there's a fucking correlation?
- [2016-07-06 7:54:33 PM] Collie Bro: can we agree on this?
- [2016-07-06 7:54:36 PM] Background Pony: /fit/ runs three DMF's. I'd hardly call that offensive.
- [2016-07-06 7:54:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: Counter was used in the final to look to exploit /u/'s fluid shifts
- [2016-07-06 7:54:53 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm talking about your fucking test cup
- [2016-07-06 7:54:57 PM] Background Pony: Whatever, this discussion got super toxic. I'll be back tomorrow when I got time to test.
- [2016-07-06 7:54:58 PM] HT☆Rock: the one we're using to test things now
- [2016-07-06 7:55:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure
- [2016-07-06 7:55:16 PM] Collie Bro: I'm going to take the time to set up my tests
- [2016-07-06 7:55:16 PM] HT☆Rock: where /fit/ ran super offensive and cleaned up
- [2016-07-06 7:55:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'll probably start tomorrow or later
- [2016-07-06 7:55:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok let's reassess what we want to do next: selective finishing nerf, right?
- [2016-07-06 7:55:47 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes
- [2016-07-06 7:55:47 PM] Collie Bro: right
- [2016-07-06 7:55:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok
- [2016-07-06 7:55:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yes
- [2016-07-06 7:56:35 PM] HT☆Rock: If goals per game, after a full test cup with that finishing nerf, are still >5, I want you all to suck my cock
- [2016-07-06 7:57:02 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm starting the test cup tonight
- [2016-07-06 7:57:18 PM] Collie Bro: what are you going to test?
- [2016-07-06 7:57:23 PM] Collie Bro: -3 -4 -5?
- [2016-07-06 7:57:31 PM] HT☆Rock: yep
- [2016-07-06 7:57:54 PM] HT☆Rock: unless there's a different system people want to use
- [2016-07-06 7:58:05 PM] Collie Bro: I'm testing -3 -5 -7 to see if it's too far
- [2016-07-06 7:58:31 PM] HT☆Rock: honestly I'm leery at nerfing finishing on 77s
- [2016-07-06 7:58:32 PM] Collie Bro: 30+ games sound reasonable?
- [2016-07-06 7:58:39 PM] HT☆Rock: they're already kind of ass
- [2016-07-06 7:58:57 PM] HT☆Rock: Full 8 man cup, with two legs for every KO game
- [2016-07-06 7:59:16 PM] HT☆Rock: to prevent outliers but still provide solid data points
- [2016-07-06 7:59:23 PM] HT☆Rock: use JB's sliders and teams as controls
- [2016-07-06 7:59:25 PM] Collie Bro: Well maybe a third guy can test -0 -3 -4 or something
- [2016-07-06 7:59:35 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll test 0 3 4
- [2016-07-06 7:59:39 PM] Collie Bro: great
- [2016-07-06 8:01:46 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 7:41 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< And I'm 90% positive you're full of shit and used Mazing Run or Speeding Bullet in 16r9k has incisive run on a silver, I'm sure of that
- [2016-07-06 8:02:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: whoever posted that pastebin kinda shared carma's real name kek
- [2016-07-06 8:02:26 PM] Background Pony: you can get away with not using any of the COM playstyle cards whatsoever
- [2016-07-06 8:02:41 PM] HT☆Rock: but muh pretty golds
- [2016-07-06 8:06:06 PM] Myuer: With def prowness being up I saw more fight for the ball in general, I didn't see the "I wait and see what happens" from the defenders btw
- [2016-07-06 8:06:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: which is a good thing
- [2016-07-06 8:06:27 PM] Myuer: The only motive I'm aganist this is because would bring some export fuckery
- [2016-07-06 8:06:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's what AATF is for
- [2016-07-06 8:06:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: aatf can be reprogrammed for virtually any ruleset iirc
- [2016-07-06 8:07:05 PM] Myuer: if that's true, would be gud
- [2016-07-06 8:07:21 PM] Smugleaf: We should just give everyone a stat limit and they can distribute it freely :^]
- [2016-07-06 8:07:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: wew
- [2016-07-06 8:08:01 PM] Myuer: Also, I'm a person that like low scorelines more than high ones, but maybe that's just me.
- [2016-07-06 8:08:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: I do too
- [2016-07-06 8:08:19 PM] Myuer: I'd be even ok with matches being only 2-1. 1-1, 3-2, 1-0, 2-0 etc
- [2016-07-06 8:08:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: but it's unreasonable to expect that from any ruleset in PES16
- [2016-07-06 8:08:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: without destroying the level of play we expect
- [2016-07-06 8:08:40 PM] Myuer: Even with moeshit settings you'd get high scorelines with the right tacts, to be honest.
- [2016-07-06 8:08:42 PM] HT☆Rock: Is the finishing nerf with or without the bronze d.pro buff?
- [2016-07-06 8:08:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: without
- [2016-07-06 8:08:54 PM] HT☆Rock: good
- [2016-07-06 8:09:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was going to try it with, and collie was going to try it without
- [2016-07-06 8:09:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: so we can see both
- [2016-07-06 8:09:18 PM] Feedback: I'm gonna do it with as well
- [2016-07-06 8:09:18 PM] HT☆Rock: I've already set without and am running 0 3 4 finishing nerf
- [2016-07-06 8:10:21 PM] Collie Bro: oh, and are we just going to ignore the stats already nerfed for height abuse or what?
- [2016-07-06 8:10:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: look for in particular if a lower finishing makes strikers take shots from worse positions or with less setup
- [2016-07-06 8:10:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: what heightabuse team is used?
- [2016-07-06 8:10:53 PM] Collie Bro: /u/
- [2016-07-06 8:10:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: because if we can make that happen, then adding the def prow buff will almost certainly improve scorelines
- [2016-07-06 8:11:08 PM] Myuer: /u/ has only madokami with height abuse, strikers are fine
- [2016-07-06 8:11:31 PM] Collie Bro: Alright
- [2016-07-06 8:12:01 PM] Collie Bro: but since i brought it up, are we just going to nerf height abuse strikers further?
- [2016-07-06 8:12:27 PM | Edited 8:12:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's to be decided later imo
- [2016-07-06 8:12:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: we could revisit that if this works
- [2016-07-06 8:12:44 PM] Collie Bro: k, I'll just nerf everything for now
- [2016-07-06 8:13:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: maybe play a non-height abuse team for testing purposes
- [2016-07-06 8:15:22 PM] Myuer: well if you are afraid about madokami just sub in spitting distance
- [2016-07-06 8:16:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: for keepers it's no big deal
- [2016-07-06 8:17:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: the keeping stats are the only ones that matter and those are untouched
- [2016-07-06 8:17:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: I thought you meant you had a team with a gold height abuse striker
- [2016-07-06 8:17:40 PM] Myuer: nah, no one of my teams had that
- [2016-07-06 8:31:17 PM] Background Pony: I'm pretty sure winter /vp/ had height abuse strikers, if you need one of those teams
- [2016-07-06 8:31:47 PM] HT☆Rock: Instead of asking what kind of bitchmade tumblr fuckface uses the term "toxic conversation", I want to know what is considered stylish from golds to specifically look out for
- [2016-07-06 8:33:22 PM] Background Pony: the fuck is your problem
- [2016-07-06 8:34:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: jesus fucking christ
- [2016-07-06 8:35:42 PM] Smugleaf: What have I just dropped in to
- [2016-07-06 8:36:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: ht calm it the hell down
- Myuer
- [2016-07-06 8:36:36 PM] Myuer: something like him
- [2016-07-06 8:36:42 PM] Myuer: [muffled tsuu in the distance]
- [2016-07-06 8:36:42 PM] Smugleaf: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
- [2016-07-06 8:37:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 6, 2016 8:31 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< what is considered stylish from golds to specifically look out forMostly tax evasion, with a little bit of autism on the side
- [2016-07-06 8:43:43 PM] HT☆Rock: >missi
- >being worthy of gold
- [2016-07-06 8:43:45 PM] HT☆Rock: (shake)
- [2016-07-06 8:44:09 PM | Edited 8:44:17 PM] HT☆Rock: and I've been elbow deep in autism that has been mostly ignored for almost a month
- [2016-07-06 8:44:13 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck you telling me to calm down
- [2016-07-06 8:44:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: calm down m8
- [2016-07-06 8:44:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: please elaborate on what we've ignored
- [2016-07-06 8:44:45 PM] HT☆Rock: The entire /ag/L's scorelines
- [2016-07-06 8:44:58 PM] Myuer: which isn't a thing of last month
- [2016-07-06 8:45:00 PM] Myuer: but of last week
- [2016-07-06 8:45:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-07-06 8:45:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: the /ag/L started what, three days ago?
- [2016-07-06 8:45:22 PM] HT☆Rock: The /ag/L statlines are ones I said to work on
- [2016-07-06 8:45:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: and we've definitely talked about it in here
- [2016-07-06 8:45:32 PM] HT☆Rock: once
- [2016-07-06 8:45:41 PM] HT☆Rock: Check the scorelines now
- [2016-07-06 8:45:44 PM] HT☆Rock: check the games
- [2016-07-06 8:45:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Shit works
- [2016-07-06 8:45:58 PM] HT☆Rock: even with retard formations
- [2016-07-06 8:45:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: I've been told harlock is a bit of a spaghetti factory
- [2016-07-06 8:46:09 PM] HT☆Rock: >been told
- [2016-07-06 8:46:17 PM] HT☆Rock: this is my fucking problem
- [2016-07-06 8:46:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: obviously that's no real conclusion
- [2016-07-06 8:46:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: just an input
- [2016-07-06 8:46:41 PM] HT☆Rock: we don't have time for just inputs
- [2016-07-06 8:46:48 PM] HT☆Rock: we have two-three days
- [2016-07-06 8:46:57 PM] Myuer: Open Agleague page, 5-2, 4-4,1-1,1-1.1-4.4-2.0-3.4-3,1-0,2-1.2-3.1-1.3-2.4-2
- [2016-07-06 8:47:30 PM] Myuer: those are last results, I don't see anything revolutionary from the scorelines alone, I see that high scorelines still happens
- [2016-07-06 8:48:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: I simply don't know enough about how it plays
- [2016-07-06 8:48:09 PM] HT☆Rock: As opposed to the scorelines posted on vanilla with D.Pro boosts?
- [2016-07-06 8:48:15 PM | Edited 8:48:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll watch some vod's tonight
- [2016-07-06 8:48:16 PM] HT☆Rock: I DO GODDAMNIT
- [2016-07-06 8:48:24 PM] HT☆Rock: THAT"S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME
- [2016-07-06 8:48:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: you're one person
- [2016-07-06 8:48:30 PM] Smugleaf: I'm sure glad I don't have to actually do anything
- [2016-07-06 8:48:38 PM] *** JohnnyBravo removed Smugleaf from this conversation. ***
- [2016-07-06 8:48:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: (^:
- [2016-07-06 8:48:39 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm the ONLY person who seems to have done things in the system
- [2016-07-06 8:48:42 PM] *** JohnnyBravo added Smugleaf ***
- [2016-07-06 8:48:47 PM] Myuer: I think you need only to calm down.
- [2016-07-06 8:48:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: what I'm saying is
- [2016-07-06 8:49:04 PM] Smugleaf: I'm just here to remind you that we're not using PES15's pitch anymore
- [2016-07-06 8:49:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: we need more people to look at it, myself included
- [2016-07-06 8:49:13 PM] HT☆Rock: Then fucking look at it
- [2016-07-06 8:49:13 PM] Background Pony: [July 6, 2016 8:48 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< I'm the ONLY person who seems to have done things in the system(you)
- [2016-07-06 8:49:24 PM] Myuer: I think that everyone here agreeded to be more inclined to a official patch
- [2016-07-06 8:49:32 PM] HT☆Rock: BGP I'm going to fuck you
- [2016-07-06 8:49:32 PM] Myuer: instead of a fanmade one, remember this?
- [2016-07-06 8:49:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes we did discuss that
- [2016-07-06 8:51:58 PM] Myuer: 62 goals in 10 matches, 6,2 average on 2nd day of agleague
- [2016-07-06 8:52:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://www.strawpoll.me/10684868
- [2016-07-06 8:52:17 PM] Smugleaf: [July 6, 2016 8:51 PM] Myuer:
- <<< 62 goals in 10 matcheslmfao
- [2016-07-06 8:52:35 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to kill Chance
- [2016-07-06 8:52:40 PM] Myuer: I didn't count
- [2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] HT☆Rock: and the entire /jp/ management team
- [2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] Smugleaf: I'll abstain from voting for now because I don't know enough about nerfing
- [2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] Myuer: Chance match.
- [2016-07-06 8:52:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: there's some teams that are retardedly slurpy too in /ag/L
- [2016-07-06 8:52:50 PM] Myuer: I only counted the 2nd match days.
- [2016-07-06 8:52:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: like QD's 3-6-1
- [2016-07-06 8:52:56 PM] Myuer: For the groups.
- [2016-07-06 8:53:03 PM] Smugleaf: Didn't it lose 3-0
- [2016-07-06 8:53:08 PM] Myuer: 62 goals for 2nd day of agleague.
- [2016-07-06 8:53:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: and a 1-1
- [2016-07-06 8:53:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
- [2016-07-06 8:53:20 PM] Myuer: in 10 matches
- [2016-07-06 8:53:20 PM] Smugleaf: QD pls
- [2016-07-06 8:53:27 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 8:52 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< and the entire /jp/ management team[July 6, 2016 8:52 PM] Myuer:
- <<< I only counted the 2nd match days.
- [2016-07-06 8:53:50 PM] Smugleaf: Wait I thought you were in the /jp/ management
- [2016-07-06 8:53:51 PM] Myuer: Isn't chance team /drw/?
- [2016-07-06 8:53:55 PM] Myuer: Or something like that?
- [2016-07-06 8:53:57 PM] Smugleaf: What the hell team do you manage
- [2016-07-06 8:54:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: now this is shitposting
- [2016-07-06 8:54:06 PM] Myuer: or the chingchong name
- [2016-07-06 8:54:19 PM] Myuer: Anyway, you can do that yourself
- [2016-07-06 8:54:35 PM] Myuer: 62 goals in 10 matches for 2nd day of any Group, it makes 6,2 average
- [2016-07-06 8:55:00 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 8:53 PM] Smugleaf:
- <<< Wait I thought you were in the /jp/ managementdude what?
- [2016-07-06 8:55:09 PM] Myuer: he is from /e/ smugleaf
- [2016-07-06 8:55:14 PM] HT☆Rock: I talk to the /jp/ guys, but I have nothing to do with them tactically
- [2016-07-06 8:55:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: weeb teams are all the same anyway :~)
- [2016-07-06 8:56:22 PM] Background Pony: I think the FT2 was more legit than /ag/ league, for the simple reason that we actually tested and put all serious formations against eachother. Unfortunately because I don't want to give away /mlp/ summer info I can't disclose formations/tactics, so I get that people don't value it highly.
- [2016-07-06 8:56:48 PM] Myuer: though it's still useful data, I think that everyone agreeded on that too.
- [2016-07-06 8:57:21 PM] Background Pony: I think it's useful in that you can compare between different datasets to see how it affects games
- [2016-07-06 8:57:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: I certainly think the streamed ft2 is more reflective of summer than vgl
- that said /mlp/ are on the conservative side of teams
- [2016-07-06 8:58:06 PM] Background Pony: that too
- [2016-07-06 8:58:40 PM] Smugleaf: I think
- [2016-07-06 8:58:45 PM] Smugleaf: PES is just broken
- [2016-07-06 8:58:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: PES 13 beckons, lads
- [2016-07-06 8:58:57 PM] Smugleaf: Abandon hope
- [2016-07-06 8:59:11 PM] Myuer: Everyone thinks that
- [2016-07-06 8:59:26 PM] Myuer: The fact is, Harlock is basically a diceroll
- [2016-07-06 8:59:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: is there still no 1.06 crack?
- [2016-07-06 8:59:30 PM] Myuer: between
- [2016-07-06 8:59:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: reminder that smulel is the reason we're stuck on 16 :~)
- [2016-07-06 8:59:36 PM] Myuer: having a slurpy fest
- [2016-07-06 8:59:45 PM] Myuer: and a old fashioned goalfest
- [2016-07-06 8:59:57 PM] Collie Bro: Just about to start testing, could I see the johnnybravo test format?
- [2016-07-06 9:00:00 PM] Background Pony: PES16 is a godsend for aesthetics guys, and that's it
- [2016-07-06 9:00:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: 16 certainly has a greater variation in goal totals than other versions
- [2016-07-06 9:00:08 PM] Collie Bro: So i don't do it stupidly and get shit data
- [2016-07-06 9:00:10 PM] Myuer: I think /ag/League prooves this by looking at the scorelines
- [2016-07-06 9:00:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: same version can get 0-0 and 6-5
- [2016-07-06 9:00:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhh hang on a moment collie
- [2016-07-06 9:00:54 PM] Myuer: [July 3, 2016 7:54 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< HT https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
- [2016-07-06 9:00:57 PM] Myuer: wasn't this?
- [2016-07-06 9:01:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
- [2016-07-06 9:01:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: ty
- [2016-07-06 9:01:07 PM] Myuer: np
- [2016-07-06 9:01:09 PM] Collie Bro: alright
- [2016-07-06 9:01:13 PM] Collie Bro: /u/
- /s/
- /vr/
- /lit/
- /tg/
- /k/
- /toy/
- /fa/
- [2016-07-06 9:01:19 PM] Collie Bro: I chose these teams
- [2016-07-06 9:01:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: mono orange no subs
- [2016-07-06 9:01:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: reasonable sliders
- [2016-07-06 9:01:29 PM] Myuer: If you have /u/ from the wiki page
- [2016-07-06 9:01:37 PM] Myuer: you have to adjust the entire fluid
- [2016-07-06 9:01:43 PM] Myuer: because the fluid is all mindgames
- [2016-07-06 9:01:51 PM] Collie Bro: I have the spring cup edit bin
- [2016-07-06 9:02:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: the exact sliders don't particularly matter as long as they're within reason unless we're doing direct comparisons
- [2016-07-06 9:02:22 PM] Collie Bro: and trust me myuer, we've got your fluid settings on file :^ )
- [2016-07-06 9:02:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: which I don't think you are here, there's too much in play
- [2016-07-06 9:02:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: the whole /u/ setup got shown on stream multiple times
- [2016-07-06 9:02:41 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 9:02 PM] Collie Bro:
- <<< and trust me myuer, we've got your fluid settings on file :^ )Oh i know that well. After all we got spoiled aganist /d/
- [2016-07-06 9:02:54 PM] Myuer: THANKS RETORT
- [2016-07-06 9:03:09 PM] Collie Bro: didn't help us enough though i guess
- [2016-07-06 9:03:26 PM] Collie Bro: anyway gonna test and shit
- [2016-07-06 9:03:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: I knew a bit about /u/ from summer but that helped ;)
- [2016-07-06 9:03:44 PM] Myuer: heh
- [2016-07-06 9:05:05 PM] Myuer: Btw I counted bad, it's 14 matches with 62 goals, so 4,42 average
- [2016-07-06 9:05:43 PM] Myuer: with 2 matches still missing to be played
- [2016-07-06 9:05:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: not that tactics really mattered once everyone was dead and we threw p3
- [2016-07-06 9:06:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: but the first 90 was top
- [2016-07-06 9:06:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: off to watch /ag/L vod's
- [2016-07-06 9:06:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: what's a good game to watch
- [2016-07-06 9:06:40 PM] Myuer: I got told
- [2016-07-06 9:06:44 PM] Myuer: that the kanker one is good
- [2016-07-06 9:08:43 PM] Myuer: not that tactics really mattered once everyone was dead and we threw p3
- but the first 90 was topThe problem of that final, we didn't try to park the bus and also we still think that having PFOL as Creative Playmaker was a mistake
- [2016-07-06 9:09:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: poacher/cp is top tho
- [2016-07-06 9:09:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: what did you think, fox/poacher?
- [2016-07-06 9:10:01 PM] HT☆Rock: it was TB on both
- [2016-07-06 9:10:13 PM] Myuer: Homu being a Fox was in consideration
- [2016-07-06 9:10:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: nah poacher was great with your counter game
- [2016-07-06 9:11:10 PM] Myuer: Now for summer, we'll see what to do
- [2016-07-06 9:11:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: three six FUN
- [2016-07-06 9:11:44 PM] Myuer: 2-3-5
- [2016-07-06 9:11:47 PM] HT☆Rock: also watch a /kanker/ match, /t&w/ - /rags/, /dg/ - /aus/, /l/ - /toon/
- [2016-07-06 9:11:57 PM] Feedback: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 conga line
- [2016-07-06 9:12:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: consummate v's
- [2016-07-06 10:00:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSXVj/2f802ea1f1.webm lmao
- [2016-07-06 10:03:46 PM] HT☆Rock: This has happened twice in the current test cup I'm doing
- [2016-07-06 10:03:51 PM] HT☆Rock: >piz
- [2016-07-06 10:04:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Why PES and not sweet death
- [2016-07-06 10:04:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm so tired of watching matches
- [2016-07-06 10:04:29 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck this game
- [2016-07-06 10:04:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: same
- [2016-07-06 10:05:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: no matter what we decide someone will be upset anyway
- [2016-07-06 10:05:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSYcp/e2ebc51649.jpg
- [2016-07-06 10:05:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: FEEDBACK YOU MEME LOVING FUCK
- [2016-07-06 10:09:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: why does dtroit sound like he's putting on an accent
- [2016-07-06 10:15:26 PM] King Lear: https://puu.sh/pSYcp/e2ebc51649.jpgdidn't the real Trogdor have a flat backline bar an elevated RB?
- [2016-07-06 10:15:43 PM] Feedback: Yes, but it was 4CBs
- [2016-07-06 10:15:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: I could swer the real trogdor had only one fullback tbh
- [2016-07-06 10:15:50 PM] Feedback: no fullbacks
- [2016-07-06 10:15:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh, weird
- [2016-07-06 10:16:24 PM] Feedback: also, a DMF instead of a CMF
- [2016-07-06 10:17:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: so it could have been a 4-4-diamond-2, but instead was that brilliantly retarded monster
- [2016-07-06 10:34:08 PM] HT☆Rock: It's Trogdor 2.0
- [2016-07-06 10:35:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: Trog 2: Trog Harder
- [2016-07-06 11:49:31 PM] HT☆Rock: I have officially tested for this bullshit more than I've ever tested for my own team
- [2016-07-06 11:54:08 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147624261#p147668037
- Whichever one of you this is I am not pleased. Posting part of our discussions will only stir shit up and you should know better than to throw fuel on the fire for the sake of seeing flames. I am fine with people posting their test results publicly and would even encourage doing so but this is different than that. I will also note that the timezone that is implied by the timestamps does not match that which any of you reside in so the person that did this was very likely attempting to cover their tracks. I am not going to start a witch hunt on this matter but please be aware of how I feel about this.
- [2016-07-06 11:57:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: Lear that time zone is US Pacific
- [2016-07-06 11:57:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: I.e. me, except I wouldn't put my fucking real name on 4ccg
- [2016-07-06 11:58:14 PM] King Lear: Aren't you in mountain time?
- [2016-07-06 11:58:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah I moved to Navada
- [2016-07-06 11:58:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: Nevada*
- [2016-07-06 11:59:46 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm Central
- [2016-07-06 11:59:54 PM] HT☆Rock: [it ain't me playing]
- [2016-07-07 12:00:46 AM] King Lear: I'm not looking for a witch hunt, no need for anyone to defend themselves.
- [2016-07-07 12:01:03 AM] HT☆Rock: Well someone decided to be a cunt
- [2016-07-07 12:21:50 AM] HT☆Rock: >almost done with group stages
- [2016-07-07 12:21:52 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck me in
- [2016-07-07 12:21:53 AM] HT☆Rock: let me die
- [2016-07-07 12:56:44 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pT6vC/f411c9476f.txt
- [2016-07-07 12:58:19 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm done
- [2016-07-07 12:58:23 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm just fucking done
- [2016-07-07 1:22:16 AM] Collie Bro: I'm 1/3 done with my tests and I'm getting pretty much the same as HT, marginal improvement of the amount of shots that go in and fuck all else
- [2016-07-07 1:23:10 AM] Collie Bro: What I'd like to try out now is -7/-5/0 with DProw buffs, maybe that'll solve everything
- [2016-07-07 1:32:15 AM] Collie Bro: http://www.mediafire.com/download/r3senpu3gi7lh0b/753.docx because I don't have puush
- [2016-07-07 3:31:06 AM] Myuer: I just woke up and saw the post
- [2016-07-07 3:31:12 AM] Myuer: on the thread
- [2016-07-07 3:31:18 AM] Myuer: Who the heck did it?
- [2016-07-07 3:39:55 AM] Smugleaf: I blame carma, he's big enough of a meme to try to ironically dox himself :^]
- [2016-07-07 3:40:45 AM] Smugleaf: But I have no idea, the timestamps were about 7 hours behind /my time/
- [2016-07-07 3:45:28 AM] Myuer: I don't know even how to check the timestamps on 4chan if you ask me
- [2016-07-07 3:50:40 AM] Smugleaf: They are in the pastebin silly sausage
- [2016-07-07 3:51:26 AM] Myuer: >3:36 PM
- [2016-07-07 3:51:41 AM] Myuer: Here it was around midnight
- [2016-07-07 3:51:43 AM] Smugleaf: If you copy and paste a message in Skype, it will create a timestamp from when they posted, with your local time innit
- [2016-07-07 3:51:50 AM] Myuer: 0:36
- [2016-07-07 6:04:26 AM] Background Pony: I'm running a testcup with 88 def prowess on non-medals, to see what the effect is, and the main effect seems to be that defenders etc are better at blocking shots in the box. They put themselves between strikers and the goal more effectively.
- [2016-07-07 6:05:18 AM] Background Pony: so you have the same amount of shots as vanilla, but more wide or blocked shots.
- [2016-07-07 6:05:43 AM] Background Pony: Im only a few games in, though.
- [2016-07-07 6:07:31 AM] Background Pony: for some reason theyre absolutely retarded at handling lofted passes, though
- [2016-07-07 6:52:23 AM] Background Pony: Im also getting throughballs for days. Not sure why. Perhaps because defenders try to cover more and dont seem to anticipate runs as much.
- [2016-07-07 10:00:25 AM] Background Pony: here's the tests I ran with 88 def prowess on non medals (bottom right):
- [2016-07-07 10:00:26 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pTssv/b8bd8859e9.png
- [2016-07-07 10:03:07 AM] Background Pony: in effect, the results seem similar to 80/90/95, but at the same time the defenders also seem far less capable. This means golds do more impressive things.
- [2016-07-07 10:05:05 AM] Background Pony: downside is that throughballs come very easily. Also, the defensive prowess buff might strengthen midfield murderball teams disproportionally (DMFs/destroyer CMFs).
- [2016-07-07 10:05:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: So if we go that route I assume you'd recommend an amount lower than 88
- [2016-07-07 10:06:17 AM] Background Pony: I dunno, I think that value is fine, because it didnt buff CBs nearly as much as I thought it would
- [2016-07-07 10:09:09 AM] JohnnyBravo: what's your opinion about the types of teams that won on each one
- [2016-07-07 10:09:22 AM] Background Pony: there were several extremely slurpy games, and also some massive blowout games
- [2016-07-07 10:09:34 AM] JohnnyBravo: for example the default rules one was won by a 5-4-1; were the winners on other setups more balanced?
- [2016-07-07 10:10:22 AM] Background Pony: 80/90/95 benefits tiki taka teams.
- [2016-07-07 10:10:59 AM] Background Pony: 81/90/99 felt like it benefitted whoever's defense was having a better day
- [2016-07-07 10:11:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: I agree, you need that to break through the more condensed midfield otherwise you just have to go over the top and pray
- [2016-07-07 10:11:15 AM | Edited 10:11:32 AM] Background Pony: 77/88/99 benefits defensive midfield teams (with 88 def prowess on non medals)
- [2016-07-07 10:12:39 AM] Background Pony: we should ask ourselves what people want to see, and decide based on that
- [2016-07-07 10:12:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: yeah that's why I asked
- [2016-07-07 10:13:07 AM] JohnnyBravo: if you assume people will find close-ish to the optimal style
- [2016-07-07 10:13:31 AM] Background Pony: not what people in /4ccg/ want, because I think what /4ccg/ wants and what /4ccg/ needs are not the same thing
- [2016-07-07 10:35:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: so basically
- [2016-07-07 10:35:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: FUCK pes16
- [2016-07-07 10:43:12 AM] Background Pony: pretty much
- [2016-07-07 11:10:19 AM] Collie Bro: I would go for the lower right tbh
- [2016-07-07 12:23:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 7, 2016 10:35 AM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< FUCK pes16I think that's the one thing we all agree on
- [2016-07-07 12:31:29 PM] Collie Bro: why pes16 and not fifa
- [2016-07-07 12:31:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: why pes16 and not pes13
- [2016-07-07 12:31:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: why pes16 and not suicide
- [2016-07-07 12:31:56 PM] Duke Silver: ^ my vote
- [2016-07-07 12:31:57 PM] Collie Bro: why pes16 and not Football Manager
- [2016-07-07 12:32:17 PM] Feedback: why
- [2016-07-07 12:32:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: why.jpg
- [2016-07-07 12:32:40 PM] Collie Bro: y'know I'd actually like to try that out sometime, if it's possible to get multiplayer on FM
- [2016-07-07 2:05:30 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 12:32 PM] Collie Bro:
- <<< y'know I'd actually like to try that out sometime, if it's possible to get multiplayer on FMYeah, with little fractions per match, not very fun to watch
- [2016-07-07 2:06:14 PM] Collie Bro: not for an actual cup ofc, but for a memevitational I'd enjoy it
- [2016-07-07 2:06:23 PM] Collie Bro: it'd be better than OSM at any rate
- [2016-07-07 2:06:24 PM] Myuer: Oh, for that I'd be up.
- [2016-07-07 2:53:22 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 9:35 AM
- > FUCK pes16
- Yo KONAMI how u want your game, fam?
- J U S T
- [2016-07-07 2:53:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: hey ht wanna 0-0 and cuck durgen (^:
- [2016-07-07 2:55:03 PM] HT☆Rock: lel
- [2016-07-07 4:53:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I say, if the sweet release of death isn't an option, we buff keepers to 80 and just sit on that
- [2016-07-07 4:53:51 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless people are cool with D.Pro 80 on bronzes
- [2016-07-07 4:54:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm down for dpro at like 80-81
- [2016-07-07 4:54:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: or more
- [2016-07-07 4:54:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: idc
- [2016-07-07 4:56:28 PM] HT☆Rock: 88 might be too high, crunching the numbers on the horsefucker cup
- [2016-07-07 4:56:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: I imagine 84 is as high as we could reasonably go
- [2016-07-07 4:57:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: I thought keepers were fine with dprow but I don't mind if they get boosted a bit too
- [2016-07-07 4:57:40 PM] Background Pony: You should try a few games on 88.
- [2016-07-07 4:57:51 PM] Background Pony: I didnt get the feeling that it was too high.
- [2016-07-07 4:58:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: Having it too high might lead to the throughball spam though
- [2016-07-07 4:58:18 PM | Edited 4:58:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean for sentimental and dubs reasons I'd love to go to 88, but like
- [2016-07-07 4:58:27 PM] Background Pony: jeah, I dont know what's up with that.
- [2016-07-07 4:58:33 PM] Background Pony: the throughball spam, I mean.
- [2016-07-07 4:58:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: Could be -too- good at coverage meaning only throughballs go off
- [2016-07-07 4:59:07 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 3:58 PM
- > Having it too high might lead to the throughball spam though
- Throughball spam is a problem with PES 16 in general, from my research
- [2016-07-07 4:59:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
- [2016-07-07 5:00:37 PM] Myuer: oh wait, in my tests I buffed the keepers too with def prow
- [2016-07-07 5:00:57 PM] HT☆Rock: So I'm thinking if the last line of defense (the keeper) is stronger, we can still have 99 golds pissing on the back line but not have the keepers literally do nothing half the time
- [2016-07-07 5:01:18 PM] HT☆Rock: Which is what I found on Finish nerf 99/88/77
- [2016-07-07 5:01:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd be cool with 82 defprow and keeping stats
- [2016-07-07 5:01:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: ie a moderate boost
- [2016-07-07 5:01:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sounds nice
- [2016-07-07 5:02:17 PM] HT☆Rock: Keepers tho
- [2016-07-07 5:03:05 PM] Myuer: In my tests with the def prow improved
- [2016-07-07 5:03:15 PM] Myuer: I put that stat buffed for keepers too
- [2016-07-07 5:03:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: should we talk about height rules too
- [2016-07-07 5:03:42 PM] Background Pony: same. I buffed all non-medals, keepers included.
- [2016-07-07 5:03:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: No time for heights imo
- [2016-07-07 5:04:18 PM] Myuer: well we still have like 24-30 hours
- [2016-07-07 5:04:21 PM] Background Pony: I think the one manlet height bracket is a good idea (all 175cm)
- [2016-07-07 5:04:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean I'm ok with the current rules
- [2016-07-07 5:04:30 PM] HT☆Rock: I like that rule too
- [2016-07-07 5:04:31 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure that's easy
- [2016-07-07 5:04:36 PM] HT☆Rock: The 175 bracket
- [2016-07-07 5:04:43 PM] Background Pony: 175 x 6 / 180 x 7 / 185 x 10
- [2016-07-07 5:04:47 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:04 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< I mean I'm ok with the current rulessame
- [2016-07-07 5:04:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: No more 165 cm fucks
- [2016-07-07 5:05:11 PM] Background Pony: for aesthetics reasons people can make players shorter if they want, but any player shorter than 175 will still count as 175cm tall
- [2016-07-07 5:05:30 PM] HT☆Rock: I still would like a test with keeper stats (Keeping, Reflexes, One on One, imgay) equal to what we decide for D.Pro
- [2016-07-07 5:05:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Because those seem to be the keeper equivalent
- [2016-07-07 5:05:53 PM] Myuer: If you have time run it
- [2016-07-07 5:06:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: if anything
- let's just move the 165cm player into the 170cm bracket
- [2016-07-07 5:06:06 PM] Myuer: Or someone else from here
- [2016-07-07 5:06:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: so that managers are less inclined to remember "oh that's my manlet, I won't play him" because they'll have three now
- [2016-07-07 5:06:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just do all 175
- [2016-07-07 5:08:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm ok with that too I guess. As a manager I like that, but as a fan I like the variety
- [2016-07-07 5:08:15 PM] Myuer: >not wanting to play manlets
- [2016-07-07 5:08:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: they never learn
- [2016-07-07 5:09:47 PM] Duke Silver: Just to confirm this stat set, since I can test it tonight and tomorrow
- [2016-07-07 5:09:55 PM] Duke Silver: Defensive Prowess on Bronze players to 82
- [2016-07-07 5:10:04 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:05 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< I still would like a test with keeper stats (Keeping, Reflexes, One on One, imgay) equal to what we decide for D.Pro
- [2016-07-07 5:10:09 PM] Duke Silver: Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82 as well?
- [2016-07-07 5:10:14 PM] JohnnyBravo: imgay
- [2016-07-07 5:10:23 PM] Duke Silver: obviously but still that look good?
- [2016-07-07 5:10:35 PM] Myuer: Do that Duke Silver, for Keepers, just to see what happens
- [2016-07-07 5:10:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 7, 2016 5:05 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< imgay
- [2016-07-07 5:10:48 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
- [2016-07-07 5:11:10 PM] Duke Silver: Learning a lot today tbh
- [2016-07-07 5:11:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: You know what I learned today?
- sick bassline
- [2016-07-07 5:11:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
- [2016-07-07 5:12:05 PM] Duke Silver: I learned that it is possible for your anus to clench halfway up your abdomen
- [2016-07-07 5:12:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: wat
- [2016-07-07 5:12:19 PM] Myuer: ok
- [2016-07-07 5:12:25 PM] Myuer: I don't care, just run those tests
- [2016-07-07 5:13:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: Gannon Murphy - Today 4:12 PM
- > wat
- /seinfeld/ advanced on 90+5
- [2016-07-07 5:13:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
- [2016-07-07 5:13:23 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 4:10 PM
- > Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82 as well?
- Yeah
- [2016-07-07 5:13:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: sounds like a certain smulel I know
- [2016-07-07 5:14:13 PM] Duke Silver: Any form changes in this test set? GKs or All Bronze to 8?
- [2016-07-07 5:14:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Nah
- [2016-07-07 5:14:42 PM] Myuer: Form 8 is shit
- [2016-07-07 5:14:45 PM] Duke Silver: kk
- [2016-07-07 5:19:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Form 8 gets us all greens p.much
- [2016-07-07 5:19:48 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless RNGEEZUS hates you
- [2016-07-07 5:19:59 PM] Background Pony: jeah, higher form = more likely to be green
- [2016-07-07 5:20:02 PM] HT☆Rock: rip daigo
- [2016-07-07 5:20:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: Someone told me sexcopter used to run like form 2 and roll for more variance
- [2016-07-07 5:24:07 PM] Background Pony: low form = bigger varience, slightly more likely to be blue or purple
- [2016-07-07 5:24:27 PM] Background Pony: high form = bigger chance to be green, slightly more likely to be orange or red
- [2016-07-07 5:24:40 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:20 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< rip daigoheh
- [2016-07-07 5:24:57 PM] Background Pony: according to form tests I ran back for PES14. Trying to find the data, but its buried deep.
- [2016-07-07 6:48:59 PM] Collie Bro: ask the nsa for it, they probably have it somewhere
- [2016-07-07 10:32:23 PM] Duke Silver: Can someone give me an excuse to throw these results out? Because we're at 7.33 Goals per game after 6
- [2016-07-07 10:32:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: are they at least good goals
- [2016-07-07 10:32:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: and not throughballs
- [2016-07-07 10:33:16 PM] Duke Silver: Hold on, I've been counting them. There have been some awesome goals, but some meh ones
- [2016-07-07 10:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 9:32 PM
- > Can someone give me an excuse to throw these results out? Because we're at 7.33 Goals per game after 6
- What teams
- [2016-07-07 10:33:35 PM] Duke Silver: /fit/ - /trv/ - /tv/ - /b/ using JB's puush
- [2016-07-07 10:33:43 PM] Duke Silver: Haven't done the other 4's group yet
- [2016-07-07 10:35:12 PM] Feedback: I'm actually just about to finish up my test cup on 88 def. prow and -5/-4/-3 to finishing.
- [2016-07-07 10:35:30 PM] Duke Silver: Looks like 7 total throughball goals in those 6 games, and 5 Offsides on a throughball attempt
- [2016-07-07 10:35:42 PM] Duke Silver: So (maybe) defenders are better about waiting to chase them?
- [2016-07-07 10:36:37 PM] Feedback: Goals aren't down by any means, most of them (and most scoring chances for that matter) have come off throughballs, and the games themselves just aren't that fun to watch with the exception of a few minor details I haven't seen on previous rulesets
- [2016-07-07 10:37:04 PM] Duke Silver: (Objectively) these games have actually been a lot of fun to watch
- [2016-07-07 10:37:18 PM] Feedback: Mine haven't :/
- [2016-07-07 10:37:36 PM] Feedback: (doesn't help that a good amount were blowouts)
- [2016-07-07 10:37:46 PM] Duke Silver: Forwards seem to be a lot more willing to play the extra pass - /fit/ had a goal against /trv/ with 6 passes in the box that were delicious
- [2016-07-07 10:38:13 PM] Duke Silver: Unfortunately it was the first goal in a 4-2 game and it got kind of drowned out with the rest of them
- [2016-07-07 10:38:33 PM] Feedback: I've had not really had that variety
- [2016-07-07 10:38:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: Duke what are you running again?
- [2016-07-07 10:38:53 PM] Feedback: though I have noticed on this setting that crosses have seemed more viable
- [2016-07-07 10:39:04 PM] Duke Silver: - 1.04 Vanilla, All Orange Conditions
- - Regular 77/88/99 GGSS Medal System
- - Defensive Prowess for Bronze Players to 82
- - Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82
- - Using Teams/Tactics from https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
- [2016-07-07 10:39:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok
- [2016-07-07 10:39:14 PM] Feedback: and rebounds off the keepers tend to end up somewhere that other forwards can reach
- [2016-07-07 10:40:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: Getting real tired of your "no changes work" shit, pes16
- [2016-07-07 10:40:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: >buffed keepers and defending >7 goals per game
- [2016-07-07 10:40:50 PM] Duke Silver: I don't care what anyone else says, I'm convinced that PES 16 uses some kind of RNG entropy that makes my computer dump out LOADSAGOALS
- [2016-07-07 10:41:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: RNG is probably location based
- [2016-07-07 10:41:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: :^)
- [2016-07-07 10:41:52 PM] Collie Bro: it runs on atmospheric memes
- [2016-07-07 10:41:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: >improve defense
- >more goals
- help
- [2016-07-07 10:42:29 PM] Feedback: My test cup final is going to penalties between /fit/ and /tv/
- [2016-07-07 10:42:45 PM] Duke Silver: I'm just going to boost a bunch of offensive stats so I can have a 2.5 Goals/Game Test Cup
- [2016-07-07 10:42:50 PM] Duke Silver: Because that's how it owrks
- [2016-07-07 10:42:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: (It ain't me starts playing)
- [2016-07-07 10:42:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: let's just go all-99s
- [2016-07-07 10:43:09 PM] Collie Bro: all 40s
- [2016-07-07 10:43:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: unlimited cards, unlimited heights
- [2016-07-07 10:43:47 PM] Feedback: "As the rules council, we've decided the best step forward is for there to be no rules. The cup is over. Goodbye."
- [2016-07-07 10:44:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: Remember how final bosses conceded twice on two separate occasions (cwl)
- [2016-07-07 10:44:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
- [2016-07-07 10:47:43 PM] Duke Silver: Oh, the answer was to just tell you guys about the LODSOFGOALS games, because that one was a 4(3) 1-2 4(2)
- [2016-07-07 10:47:44 PM] Duke Silver: Ok
- [2016-07-07 10:51:19 PM] HT☆Rock: come sweet death
- [2016-07-07 10:51:20 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm)
- [2016-07-07 10:53:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: http://pastebin.com/BbRCbCDv should I leak to /4ccg/? :^D
- [2016-07-07 10:54:03 PM] HT☆Rock: i will leak in ur bum
- [2016-07-07 10:54:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: hot
- [2016-07-07 11:00:50 PM] Collie Bro: we can leak that we're testing all 66 players because "we have to stop goals at all costs" :^ )
- [2016-07-07 11:01:33 PM] HT☆Rock: we can leak deez nuts
- [2016-07-08 1:28:36 AM] King Lear: low form = bigger varience, slightly more likely to be blue or purple
- high form = bigger chance to be green, slightly more likely to be orange or redI ran form tests in PES 15 and this is what I saw.
- [July 7, 2016 10:44 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< Remember how final bosses conceded twice on two separate occasions (cwl)/wu/ lads.
- [2016-07-08 1:29:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: Lear can I leak that pastebin
- [2016-07-08 1:30:00 AM] King Lear: Do you honestly think that will end well?
- [2016-07-08 1:30:02 AM] Collie Bro: every day is a living hell that I can never escape no matter how many tests I run
- [2016-07-08 1:30:07 AM] Collie Bro: you can leak that
- [2016-07-08 1:30:15 AM] Duke Silver: help 3 of the 4 knockout games in these test cups have gone to extra time
- [2016-07-08 1:30:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean there will be at least one kek to be had
- [2016-07-08 1:30:24 AM] Duke Silver: (Or this 4th one is at least probably GOING to et)
- [2016-07-08 1:30:34 AM] Duke Silver: PES knows I want to go to bed and is just fucking with me
- [2016-07-08 1:30:49 AM] King Lear: Then go ahead.
- [2016-07-08 1:34:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: I wonder if it's too obvious a shitpost
- [2016-07-08 1:35:29 AM] Collie Bro: do you put a lot of care and attention into your shitposts or is it usually a spontaneous thing?
- Gannon Murphy
- [2016-07-08 1:36:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm really good at shitposting
- [2016-07-08 1:40:21 AM] King Lear: You should be ashamed.
- [2016-07-08 1:41:10 AM] Collie Bro: Impressive
- [2016-07-08 1:41:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: I don't do it as often as you might think
- [2016-07-08 1:41:22 AM] HT☆Rock: once is too much
- [2016-07-08 1:41:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's just every once in a while I go fucking ham
- [2016-07-08 1:41:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: like, once every coupla months
- [2016-07-08 1:42:09 AM] King Lear: You should still feel ashamed.
- [2016-07-08 1:42:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's only /4ccg/
- [2016-07-08 1:42:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: turning a dumpster fire into a bigger dumpster fire is no big deal
- [2016-07-08 1:42:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: I love burning garbage
- [2016-07-08 1:42:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: so does Feedy
- [2016-07-08 1:42:59 AM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 1:42 AM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< it's only /4ccg/I said, this morning before >rags lost.
- [2016-07-08 1:43:50 AM] King Lear: Be the change you want to see in the world.
- [2016-07-08 1:43:51 AM] Collie Bro: [July 8, 2016 1:42 AM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< I love burning garbageSo does Feedback but I guess that's a different meaning of burn
- [2016-07-08 1:44:43 AM] HT☆Rock: (chuckle)
- [2016-07-08 1:44:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: hehe
- [2016-07-08 1:44:57 AM] HT☆Rock: >I spent a day not testing
- [2016-07-08 1:44:58 AM] Feedback: People still burn CDs?
- [2016-07-08 1:45:03 AM] HT☆Rock: I feel so much better
- [2016-07-08 1:47:50 AM] Duke Silver: It's funny you say that, because I spent a day testing and I feel so much worse http://puu.sh/pUj4L/5d67c44dae.txt
- [2016-07-08 1:47:55 AM] Duke Silver: - Goals Per Game: 6.19
- - Shots Per Game (Overall(On Target)): 17.38(13)
- - Saves Per Game: 6.31
- [2016-07-08 1:47:58 AM] Duke Silver: What the fuck is wrong with my PES
- [2016-07-08 1:48:13 AM] Collie Bro: does it have 16 at the end?
- [2016-07-08 1:48:14 AM] Gannon Murphy: >6.19
- [2016-07-08 1:48:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
- that
- [2016-07-08 1:48:59 AM] HT☆Rock: BOOYAKA BOOYAKA
- [2016-07-08 1:49:01 AM] HT☆Rock: FUCK THIS GAME
- [2016-07-08 1:49:06 AM] Duke Silver: DEFENSIVE
- [2016-07-08 1:49:07 AM] Duke Silver: BOOSTS
- [2016-07-08 1:49:50 AM] Collie Bro: can I leak this
- [2016-07-08 1:50:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: I gotchu pham
- [2016-07-08 1:50:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: hold on
- [2016-07-08 1:50:16 AM] Duke Silver: Not until I check those Puush .jpgs and make sure I didn't screencap Chrome
- [2016-07-08 1:50:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: nah pham I'm gonna make it nice and sterile
- [2016-07-08 1:51:08 AM] Duke Silver: Can we just go full 1984 and unthink this shit
- [2016-07-08 1:51:13 AM] Duke Silver: Tell everyone Spring had 8 goals per game
- [2016-07-08 1:51:19 AM] HT☆Rock: /lit/ 7(4) 2-9 16(11) /wg/
- H E L P
- [2016-07-08 1:51:22 AM] Duke Silver: And that we're going to make everything better and lower it to ~6
- [2016-07-08 1:51:35 AM] Collie Bro: We were always at war with FIFA
- [2016-07-08 1:51:35 AM] Feedback: We have always been on PES14 1.12.
- [2016-07-08 1:51:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: kek
- [2016-07-08 1:53:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: casual reminder that fewer than 6 goals in a game is a slurper
- [2016-07-08 1:53:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: more goals = more hype
- [2016-07-08 1:53:52 AM] Duke Silver: The worst part is that most of these games were actually pretty fun to watch (unless /wg/ or /po/ were playing sorry not sorry)
- [2016-07-08 1:54:43 AM] Collie Bro: Real talk for a second, if we could find a way to cut out those overly long replays of corners/failed shots I would be sort of fine with the amount of goals
- [2016-07-08 1:55:24 AM] Duke Silver: I mean you could just press start to skip them, we don't need to save every "Look at this striker looking frustrated!" replay
- [2016-07-08 1:55:39 AM] HT☆Rock: this game makes me want to die
- [2016-07-08 1:55:53 AM] Collie Bro: the thing is streamers usually don't bother to
- [2016-07-08 1:56:00 AM] Duke Silver: Also who said I liked 6.19 goals per game
- [2016-07-08 1:56:34 AM] Collie Bro: Anonymous No. 147795826
- [2016-07-08 1:56:41 AM] Collie Bro: Can't imagine who that might be
- [2016-07-08 1:56:42 AM] King Lear: Money on Carma or Collie.
- [2016-07-08 1:56:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: it probably wasn't collie
- [2016-07-08 1:57:03 AM] Gannon Murphy: jussayin
- [2016-07-08 1:57:18 AM] Collie Bro: It was Duke and he's just an ebin rusemaster
- [2016-07-08 1:57:42 AM] Duke Silver: Frustrating stats TBH. SO many more shots on target when compared to the vanilla stuff I was testing, it makes the better play completely worthless :/
- [2016-07-08 1:57:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: was it too much or a stroke of genius to call this council "#toplads"
- [2016-07-08 1:57:50 AM] HT☆Rock: Did anyone besides me run 99/88/80?
- [2016-07-08 1:58:26 AM] Collie Bro: If I'm a top lad, god help this community
- [2016-07-08 1:58:33 AM] King Lear: Slightly more serious is there a way to get everyone to post all of their test cup results so I can compile them?
- [2016-07-08 1:58:45 AM] Collie Bro: yeah hang on fam
- [2016-07-08 1:58:51 AM] Collie Bro: half a test cup coming up
- [2016-07-08 1:59:04 AM] HT☆Rock: You want a single doc, Lear?
- [2016-07-08 1:59:07 AM] Collie Bro: [July 7, 2016 1:32 AM] Collie Bro:
- <<< http://www.mediafire.com/download/r3senpu3gi7lh0b/753.docx
- [2016-07-08 1:59:57 AM] Feedback: I'm gonna head off to bed for now, but I'll do a writeup of my test cup and give it to you in the morning.
- [2016-07-08 1:59:57 AM] Duke Silver: The Puush I just put out, then the other things that I tried are in this zip
- [2016-07-08 1:59:58 AM] Duke Silver: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hXLVMLsRLhTmo1YlBIUEhLVlE
- [2016-07-08 2:00:23 AM] Duke Silver: Those are just Form 8 Keepers, then a 95/86/77 Stat compression (Weird I know but it was 3 weeks ago before we had discussed them
- [2016-07-08 2:00:47 AM] King Lear: I'm just going to put every link I see from now on into a pastebin for easy access.
- [2016-07-08 2:01:06 AM] Collie Bro: Will it be released once we decide on the rules?
- [2016-07-08 2:01:26 AM] King Lear: We can release it before but yeah this'll all get put out there.
- [2016-07-08 2:01:35 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck us in
- [2016-07-08 2:01:37 AM] HT☆Rock: let us die
- [2016-07-08 2:01:47 AM] Collie Bro: Great, at least they'll know we did something
- [2016-07-08 2:01:49 AM] Duke Silver: Seems like there should be at least some communication with the bigger community - a couple of people were asking in /4ccg/ earlier if there was going to be another 'rules summit' stream
- [2016-07-08 2:02:08 AM] Collie Bro: that was fun, we should do another at some point
- [2016-07-08 2:02:09 AM] HT☆Rock: Do we have time and a streamer for that?
- [2016-07-08 2:02:18 AM] Collie Bro: maybe before autumn, not now tho
- [2016-07-08 2:02:32 AM | Edited 2:02:42 AM] HT☆Rock: we could probably put in some space for it in the /ag/L if /c/rispy's internet doesn't expode again
- [2016-07-08 2:02:32 AM] King Lear: Time? no. Streamer? I can stream.
- [2016-07-08 2:03:09 AM] Duke Silver: Oh I'm sure the Pastebin will just lead to (smh anime grill pic) >They ran this many test matches >This is the best shit they could come up with >#toplads
- [2016-07-08 2:03:17 AM] HT☆Rock: Well yeah
- [2016-07-08 2:03:23 AM] HT☆Rock: because /4ccg/ is shit
- [2016-07-08 2:03:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: [11:01:26 PM] King Lear: It looks like /wg/ is improved under these settings. I approve.
- [2016-07-08 2:03:38 AM] Collie Bro: M E R C
- [2016-07-08 2:03:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: does this sound enough like Lear
- [2016-07-08 2:04:01 AM] Feedback: friendly reminder to keep in mind that /4ccg/'s opinions in no way represent that of the viewerbase at large
- [2016-07-08 2:04:01 AM] Duke Silver: Real Talk /wg/ was genuinely miserable to watch in that test cup
- [2016-07-08 2:04:26 AM] Duke Silver: Like shit midfield, lethargic defense, somehow made it to knockouts behind FC Cunt Destroyer
- [2016-07-08 2:04:28 AM] Collie Bro: I'm sure /4ccg/ will be calm and understanding and thank us for all our harpffffhahaha
- [2016-07-08 2:07:54 AM] King Lear: These settings seem to somehow make /wg/ git gud. Coincidentally, I think I know what our settings should be.
- [2016-07-08 2:08:19 AM] Duke Silver: Well now you can just take a screenshot.
- [2016-07-08 2:08:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: ooh that does sound nice
- [2016-07-08 2:08:45 AM] King Lear: http://pastebin.com/CDNsDQMw Did I miss anything?
- [2016-07-08 2:11:16 AM] Collie Bro: can't really tell just by looking at this
- [2016-07-08 2:11:31 AM] Collie Bro: maybe mark it with the user and what they were testing?
- [2016-07-08 2:12:26 AM] HT☆Rock: Add our suicide pact to it
- [2016-07-08 2:18:05 AM] King Lear: I just control+f'd for puu.sh and grabbed everything I saw. If I missed anything I'll just make another.
- [2016-07-08 2:24:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: I appreciate the memes in the thread right now
- [2016-07-08 2:24:33 AM] Gannon Murphy: I think we've accomplished all that we can
- that is, making a new temporary meme in lieu of actually fixing PES
- [2016-07-08 4:50:02 AM] Myuer: So basically we are back at the point of start?
- [2016-07-08 4:53:09 AM] King Lear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvc7ql44T2A
- [2016-07-08 5:16:37 AM] Myuer: I take it as a yes.
- [2016-07-08 5:17:49 AM] Myuer: The problem is that Tomorrow there is the deadline
- [2016-07-08 10:01:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 1:57 AM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< Did anyone besides me run 99/88/80?no because you said it was awful
- [2016-07-08 3:40:48 PM | Edited 3:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: It is less awful than the rest of the shit I tested past that point
- [2016-07-08 3:41:46 PM | Edited 3:42:02 PM] HT☆Rock: At this point we need to find the lesser evil because there's no good here to be found
- [2016-07-08 3:42:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
- [2016-07-08 3:42:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was just saying at the time nobody saw a point to repeat it
- [2016-07-08 3:42:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: we can revisit that if you think it's the least awful option at this point
- [2016-07-08 3:42:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'm still of the mind that we should try -7-5-0 finishing with a DProw buff
- [2016-07-08 3:43:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: problem with dprow buff only is it encourages througball spam according to a few, and that's probably because you have better coverage on short passes but speed is still 77 so throughballs are the optimal pass always
- [2016-07-08 3:44:18 PM] Collie Bro: alright then
- [2016-07-08 3:44:21 PM] Duke Silver: I didn't see throughball spam being effective with the dprow buffs that I tested, to be honesty
- [2016-07-08 3:44:34 PM] Duke Silver: I mean there were some, but it's PES, there are always some
- [2016-07-08 3:44:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
- [2016-07-08 3:45:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: @HT your review of 80/88/99 said it was worse than what I wrote about 80/90/95 so I'm curious as to why you think that's the best option now
- [2016-07-08 3:45:25 PM] Collie Bro: well I'm going to finish the test cup that I started, then maybe someone can try it with non-medal finishing back at 77
- [2016-07-08 3:47:10 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:45 PM
- > @HT your review of 80/88/99 said it was worse than what I wrote about 80/90/95 so I'm curious as to why you think that's the best option now
- Because I liked the play of 80/90/95 because it was more of a team effort, but 80/88/99 had the individual class folks wanted from golds while still having defenses close down and shit
- [2016-07-08 3:48:05 PM] HT☆Rock: The finishing nerf also had a lot of good build up play in the box, it's just that keepers did fuck and all outside that one /lit/ keeperbabby game
- [2016-07-08 3:51:12 PM] HT☆Rock: I'd say finishing nerf + keeper buff, but didn't silver's tests go wacko with that?
- [2016-07-08 3:51:31 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
- [2016-07-08 3:52:01 PM] HT☆Rock: I thought there was a bronze D.Pro buff in there too
- [2016-07-08 3:52:17 PM] Duke Silver: Mine had a dpro to 82 for brones
- [2016-07-08 3:52:40 PM] HT☆Rock: Because it seems like giving 77s a D.Pro buff too high makes them try shit they can't actually do
- [2016-07-08 3:53:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we want to certainly change things it would be by adopting one of the 80 nonmedal systems. this runs the risk of changing too much.
- if we wanted to play it safer it would be one of the individual stat buffs. this runs the risk of changing too little.
- [2016-07-08 3:53:24 PM] HT☆Rock: Rock and a hard place
- [2016-07-08 3:54:34 PM] Feedback: http://pastebin.com/cYmEsn8K
- Finished writeup for the test cup I ran on 88 D.Pro for 77s & -5/-4/-3 finishing nerf. Would not recommend.
- [2016-07-08 3:54:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: >first games are 6-4 and then 2-1
- fuck you pes
- [2016-07-08 3:55:44 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm) but the eyes never open
- [2016-07-08 3:59:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: good shit feedback
- -I think lowered momentum might be more of a general 1.04 thing than any system, as I've noticed very little of it in all of the formats I've tried
- -upping defprow definitely just narrows what kinds of chances are even tried. one reason for the seemingly contradictory increase in goals might be that chances are now funneled to more optimal strategies.
- [2016-07-08 4:00:02 PM] HT☆Rock: But this helps confirm my hypothesis that giving 77s a high D.Pro boost just makes them go too hard while too slow and it turns into throughball city
- [2016-07-08 4:00:49 PM] HT☆Rock: Because the purely finishing nerf tests had them sit like tards, but that meant passing in the box was necessary to score most of the time
- [2016-07-08 4:01:54 PM] Collie Bro: >turn off pes
- [2016-07-08 4:01:57 PM] Collie Bro: >turn it back on
- [2016-07-08 4:02:03 PM] Collie Bro: >games are suddenly slurpers
- [2016-07-08 4:02:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: how stupid is suggesting like 95/85/75
- [2016-07-08 4:02:49 PM] Collie Bro: >nerfing defenders
- [2016-07-08 4:02:58 PM] Collie Bro: we've suggested stupider
- [2016-07-08 4:02:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: tbf that nerfs -everything-
- [2016-07-08 4:04:24 PM] HT☆Rock: Might as well run AGL Harlock then, JB
- [2016-07-08 4:04:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: speaking of
- [2016-07-08 4:05:06 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm thinking someone try a pure keeper buff to 80 and a finishing nerf to golds/slivers and see what happens.
- [2016-07-08 4:05:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pUWGw/5eb820d0a8.txt
- [2016-07-08 4:05:21 PM] HT☆Rock: That might be the Gordian Knot cut we need
- [2016-07-08 4:05:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: based on what /ag/L games I've watched
- [2016-07-08 4:05:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: tl;dr fuck harcock lmaooooo
- [2016-07-08 4:06:06 PM] HT☆Rock: harcock sucks lmaooooo
- [2016-07-08 4:07:19 PM] HT☆Rock: But yeah, finish nerf of golds and silvers, combined with a keeper all stat buff to 80. No other changes
- [2016-07-08 4:07:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure
- [2016-07-08 4:07:31 PM] HT☆Rock: That might work
- [2016-07-08 4:07:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Given what I've seen of the data so far
- [2016-07-08 4:07:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's so simple it may just work
- [2016-07-08 4:08:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: because every time we try to fuck with nonmedals pes spits in our faces
- [2016-07-08 4:08:10 PM] Collie Bro: *harcuck
- [2016-07-08 4:08:50 PM] Collie Bro: should I abandon the tests I've got going right now and try that setup? Because I like the sound of that
- [2016-07-08 4:09:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
- [2016-07-08 4:09:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: if what you have right now sucks
- [2016-07-08 4:10:11 PM] Collie Bro: It's not the most sucky but I'd like to move on
- [2016-07-08 4:10:29 PM] Collie Bro: so yeah, what finishing nerf should I try? -7 -5 again?
- [2016-07-08 4:10:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure go for it
- [2016-07-08 4:10:39 PM] Collie Bro: k
- [2016-07-08 4:11:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh ht what finishing nerf were you going to do
- [2016-07-08 4:11:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: ideally you do slightly different ones
- [2016-07-08 4:11:39 PM | Edited 4:11:50 PM] HT☆Rock: And the best part is: if games turn too keeperbabby, we can just de-nerf finishing
- [2016-07-08 4:12:26 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll stick with my 4/3/0 so I don't have to change as much on my save
- [2016-07-08 4:12:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure then collie does 7/5/0 and we compare
- [2016-07-08 4:13:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: what does the finishing nerf actually do though? Because I'm concerned that if all it does is nerf accuracy (ie fewer shots on target) that's fine, but if it makes strikers shoot on worse opportunities, that might be better for our purposes
- [2016-07-08 4:13:20 PM] Collie Bro: I'll just use the same teams as my last test because I can't be assed to change more teams
- [2016-07-08 4:13:50 PM] Collie Bro: I've seen strikers fuck up once or twice by shooting too early
- [2016-07-08 4:14:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: what if we lower attacking prowess
- [2016-07-08 4:14:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: say -5,-4,-3, and then bump dpro to 81 on nonmedals
- [2016-07-08 4:15:00 PM] Collie Bro: I wouldn't do both
- [2016-07-08 4:15:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: let's try this first
- [2016-07-08 4:15:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: based on what happened with dprow I'd rather not touch prowess
- [2016-07-08 4:15:28 PM] Collie Bro: we saw what happened when we buffed dprow and nerfed finishing
- [2016-07-08 4:16:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: finishing -> scoring instinct, heading
- attacking prowess ->scoring instinct, elusiveness
- [2016-07-08 4:17:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: makes me wonder if finishing actually has an AI impact
- [2016-07-08 4:17:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: because one of our guidelines is to not make the AI significantly worse in search of results
- [2016-07-08 4:17:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-08 4:17:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: well I think elusiveness isn't the problem anyway
- [2016-07-08 4:17:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: so fuck nerfing apro
- [2016-07-08 4:18:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: definitely not
- [2016-07-08 4:18:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: dribble cards don't even work lel
- [2016-07-08 4:18:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-08 4:18:26 PM] Collie Bro: oh what should Madokami be with 80 keepers?
- [2016-07-08 4:18:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: nonmedal v medal in a 1v1 usually comes out in the defending player's favor anyway
- [2016-07-08 4:18:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77
- [2016-07-08 4:18:35 PM] Collie Bro: k
- [2016-07-08 4:18:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: players can't dribble around each other for shit
- [2016-07-08 4:18:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77 height abuse keeper is what /Seinfeld/ is doing actually
- [2016-07-08 4:19:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: working nicely except when someone left on the 165cm one and he conceded a squat toilet which lost a game (^^:
- [2016-07-08 4:20:36 PM] Collie Bro: I just realized I nerfed the finishing on subs too even though they would never play in testing
- [2016-07-08 4:20:41 PM] Collie Bro: I might be retarded
- [2016-07-08 4:20:56 PM] Duke Silver: ?? Did you nerf it manually and not through RigIt or something?
- [2016-07-08 4:20:56 PM] HT☆Rock: We're all retarded here
- [2016-07-08 4:21:02 PM] Collie Bro: next gen
- [2016-07-08 4:21:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: meh some teams don't actually start their "starters"
- [2016-07-08 4:21:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's playing it safe
- [2016-07-08 4:21:24 PM] Collie Bro: oh shit you're right
- [2016-07-08 4:23:02 PM | Edited 4:23:08 PM] HT☆Rock: So you put the actual starters on the starting XI
- [2016-07-08 4:23:57 PM] Collie Bro: I have to admit I never bothered to do that for /an/
- [2016-07-08 4:24:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 8, 2016 4:23 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< So you put the actual starters on the starting XIIt's about the same amount of work to do either
- [2016-07-08 4:24:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: >teams that don't make the first 11 players in the editor their starting XI (angry)
- [2016-07-08 4:26:38 PM] Collie Bro: >accidentally add a y instead of 7
- [2016-07-08 4:26:47 PM] Collie Bro: >next gen crashes before I can fix
- [2016-07-08 4:26:51 PM] Collie Bro: life is pain
- [2016-07-08 4:27:27 PM] Duke Silver: I did that twice making /Seinfeld/ because I didn't realize it crashes if you try to make the kit name >15 characters. And obviously each time it happened on like the 20th person
- [2016-07-08 4:28:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: I have two versions of next gen because some players crash the old one, and some other players crash the new one
- [2016-07-08 4:33:31 PM] HT☆Rock: PES 16 tools: as fucked as the game
- [2016-07-08 4:33:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: always
- [2016-07-08 4:34:19 PM] Duke Silver: At least we know what everything in the tools actually does
- [2016-07-08 4:35:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: bring
- back
- dots
- and
- arrows
- [2016-07-08 4:35:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: 1.12 was the highest form of PES
- [2016-07-08 4:35:54 PM] Collie Bro: I think we should just get people to meet up for a 5v5
- [2016-07-08 4:36:04 PM] Collie Bro: wear cardboard boxes for blenders
- [2016-07-08 4:36:23 PM] Duke Silver: If you don't think I already look like a cute anime grill blender, you're sorely mistaken
- [2016-07-08 4:42:09 PM] King Lear: wear cardboard boxes for blendersI've already made a boxhead for myself.
- [2016-07-08 4:42:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: I should get a red wig and keksandra mask lel
- [2016-07-08 4:44:50 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll just cover myself in white fluid
- [2016-07-08 4:50:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: collie can Harambe please be on /an/ this summer
- [2016-07-08 5:00:32 PM] Collie Bro: It got over 80% votes on the last poll I ran, I dare say he'll be a silver at least
- [2016-07-08 5:01:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: >yfw harambe scores against /pol/ and justice is served at last
- [2016-07-08 5:01:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
- [2016-07-08 5:01:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: >yfw a /mu/ defender kills Harambe
- [2016-07-08 5:02:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: (cwl)
- [2016-07-08 5:02:01 PM] Collie Bro: >yfw harambe gets a red card right afterward
- [2016-07-08 5:02:05 PM] Collie Bro: lel
- [2016-07-08 5:02:41 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 5:01 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< lmao
- >yfw a /mu/ defender kills Harambetwenty twenty twenty four hours ago
- defender killed harambe
- [2016-07-08 5:50:21 PM] Collie Bro: bring back ketchup bug tbh
- [2016-07-08 5:58:12 PM] Myuer: -2 min to midnight
- [2016-07-08 5:58:13 PM] Myuer: woo
- [2016-07-08 6:01:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: in the third world maybe :~)
- [2016-07-08 6:01:28 PM] Myuer: >
- [2016-07-08 6:01:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: :~)
- [2016-07-08 6:01:37 PM] HT☆Rock: :`)
- [2016-07-08 6:01:52 PM] HT☆Rock: im crying
- [2016-07-08 6:02:22 PM] Myuer: so in the end what are we going to decide?
- [2016-07-08 6:02:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: Let's do central time because it's the best
- [2016-07-08 6:02:42 PM] Myuer: so 2 hours from now
- [2016-07-08 6:02:55 PM] Duke Silver: I think he mean Central 'Murica time
- [2016-07-08 6:02:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's 7 hours from now
- [2016-07-08 6:03:01 PM] Duke Silver: AKA the time he is in
- [2016-07-08 6:03:08 PM] Myuer: >murrican times
- [2016-07-08 6:03:16 PM] Myuer: so when here it's 7 am
- [2016-07-08 6:03:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: >yurop
- >relevant
- [2016-07-08 6:03:36 PM] Background Pony: when do we decide on the rules?
- [2016-07-08 6:03:53 PM] Collie Bro: we can't even decide on the damn time how we gonna decide on the pes rules
- [2016-07-08 6:04:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: In all seriousness Lear has always used eastern time
- [2016-07-08 6:04:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: We should try to make a decision before the Europeans go to bed though
- [2016-07-08 6:05:15 PM] Background Pony: I'm not sure how much longer I'll be awake
- [2016-07-08 6:05:32 PM] Collie Bro: should we tuck you in
- [2016-07-08 6:05:49 PM] Smugleaf: What are we counting down?
- [2016-07-08 6:05:51 PM] Background Pony: I already have a splitting headache.
- [2016-07-08 6:05:54 PM] Myuer: I can stay awake till 7 am in cas
- [2016-07-08 6:05:55 PM] Myuer: case*
- [2016-07-08 6:06:01 PM] Myuer: Don't worry about me basically
- [2016-07-08 6:07:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: ok bgp before you go to bed what's your vote
- [2016-07-08 6:08:04 PM] Background Pony: we should have a list of options first, before we start voting
- [2016-07-08 6:08:51 PM] Myuer: NERF GOLDS
- [2016-07-08 6:09:04 PM] Background Pony: every option has its benefits, but is also shit in a way
- [2016-07-08 6:09:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: Realistically:
- 1.04 with previous rules
- 80/90/95
- 80/88/99
- 77/88/99 +4 defprow
- 77/88/99 80 keepers, finishing nerf
- harlock with /ag/L rules
- [2016-07-08 6:10:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: what am I missing
- [2016-07-08 6:10:23 PM] Background Pony: 81/90/99 with form 8 keepers
- [2016-07-08 6:10:38 PM] Background Pony: but Im not sure how much different that is from 80/88/99
- [2016-07-08 6:10:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably not much
- [2016-07-08 6:10:44 PM] Collie Bro: >form 8 keeper meme
- [2016-07-08 6:10:51 PM] HT☆Rock: There's also normal stats on Harlock
- [2016-07-08 6:10:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: form changes seem useless
- [2016-07-08 6:10:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: I thought we decided that 81/90/99 was no bueno
- [2016-07-08 6:11:05 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm kind of feeling 99/88/77 with 80 keepers
- [2016-07-08 6:11:18 PM] Background Pony: and 1.04, I assume
- [2016-07-08 6:11:19 PM] Collie Bro: yeah
- [2016-07-08 6:11:25 PM] Myuer: 80-90-95 1.04
- [2016-07-08 6:11:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: what about finishing
- [2016-07-08 6:11:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: @HT
- [2016-07-08 6:11:38 PM] Collie Bro: I don't think 1.04 is an option at this point as much as a necessity
- [2016-07-08 6:11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
- [2016-07-08 6:11:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't see any reason to prefer 1.03 to it
- [2016-07-08 6:12:07 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 8, 2016 6:11 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< what about finishing
- @HTdoesn't seem to be affecting too much to the good or the bad
- [2016-07-08 6:12:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can argue that 1.04 isn't enough but you really can't argue that 1.03>1.04
- [2016-07-08 6:12:19 PM] HT☆Rock: unless we're talking Harlock
- [2016-07-08 6:12:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
- [2016-07-08 6:12:28 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 is a bandaid in a world where a bandaid is the best you can get
- [2016-07-08 6:12:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: but we don't have enough on 1.03 harlock and with the deadline we won't
- [2016-07-08 6:12:43 PM] Myuer: ^
- [2016-07-08 6:12:48 PM] HT☆Rock: we're bleeding and dying and a bandaid is all we get
- [2016-07-08 6:13:30 PM] Background Pony: I'll go with 99/88/77 with buffed keepers (80).
- [2016-07-08 6:13:36 PM] Collie Bro: I'm finding an increase in KAPOWs so far with nerfed finishing
- [2016-07-08 6:13:47 PM] HT☆Rock: same
- [2016-07-08 6:13:57 PM] Myuer: and no wide shoots?
- [2016-07-08 6:13:58 PM] Myuer: strange
- [2016-07-08 6:14:06 PM] Collie Bro: the same amount tbh
- [2016-07-08 6:14:15 PM] Myuer: with nerfed finishing I was expecting a lot of wide
- [2016-07-08 6:14:20 PM] Myuer: tbh
- [2016-07-08 6:14:26 PM] Collie Bro: granted this is only my second match so far in this new test cup
- [2016-07-08 6:14:38 PM] Myuer: not even kapows, only wide shoots
- [2016-07-08 6:14:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we don't -have- to alter finishing then we shouldn't
- [2016-07-08 6:15:15 PM] Collie Bro: I'd be fine with 80 keepers 1.04, but if finishing helps in my tests I will argue for it
- [2016-07-08 6:15:39 PM] Collie Bro: hasn't really yet but it's still early days
- [2016-07-08 6:15:39 PM] Background Pony: the only problem I see with 80 keepers is that in the case of benuldies, everyone's going to go medals + keeper as their first five
- [2016-07-08 6:16:08 PM] Collie Bro: keepers taking penalties is fun tho
- [2016-07-08 6:16:12 PM] Myuer: well benanldius are a complete diceroll
- [2016-07-08 6:16:25 PM] Myuer: even silvers fuck up benaldies
- [2016-07-08 6:16:34 PM] Myuer: so we shouldn't worry about that too much imo
- [2016-07-08 6:16:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 6:15 PM] Background Pony:
- <<< the only problem I see with 80 keepers is that in the case of benuldies, everyone's going to go medals + keeper as their first fivewhile true, I don't see this as a big deal at all
- [2016-07-08 6:17:23 PM] Background Pony: thought it was worth mentioning. /mlp/ almost always uses the keeper as the fifth man anyway, so it doesn't affect us.
- [2016-07-08 6:17:54 PM] Collie Bro: yeah because your keeper is essentially a silver already, horsefucker
- [2016-07-08 6:17:56 PM] Background Pony: but if everyone does it, it might get old
- [2016-07-08 6:18:01 PM] Myuer: As I said, it's not a big deal.
- [2016-07-08 6:18:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: Have mulp even ever been in a shootout
- [2016-07-08 6:18:08 PM] Myuer: Even silvers do bad penalties
- [2016-07-08 6:18:09 PM] HT☆Rock: benuldies are pure RNG fam
- [2016-07-08 6:18:13 PM] HT☆Rock: it don't mattah
- [2016-07-08 6:18:15 PM] Collie Bro: yeah jb
- [2016-07-08 6:18:15 PM] Background Pony: not in a long time, I think
- [2016-07-08 6:18:20 PM] HT☆Rock: none o dis mattahs
- [2016-07-08 6:18:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: Spring 13?
- [2016-07-08 6:18:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: why no 80 keeping stats tbh
- [2016-07-08 6:18:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: and 77 everything else
- [2016-07-08 6:18:53 PM] Background Pony: spring 13 vs /d/ was the one everyone remembers
- [2016-07-08 6:18:59 PM] Myuer: Maybe penalties would matter with the finishing nerf more
- [2016-07-08 6:19:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: we did 66 keeping stats in PES14
- [2016-07-08 6:19:01 PM] Myuer: actually
- [2016-07-08 6:19:27 PM] Duke Silver: I tried 82 keeping stats, did anyone else test with those changed specifically (i.e. not keepers overall)?
- [2016-07-08 6:20:05 PM | Edited 6:20:19 PM] Background Pony: no. I tried 81 bronze overall, and they were very effective
- [2016-07-08 6:20:17 PM] Background Pony: like, too effective.
- [2016-07-08 6:20:21 PM] Collie Bro: This game is 3-5 with no end in sight help
- [2016-07-08 6:20:32 PM] Myuer: pes16 doing his dirty work
- [2016-07-08 6:21:01 PM] Background Pony: but keepers depend on defenders a lot.
- [2016-07-08 6:21:47 PM] Duke Silver: I didn't see a ton "better" per se from 82 Keeper stats, but the only thing defenders had changed on mine was dpro
- [2016-07-08 6:21:51 PM] Duke Silver: So not speed or anything like that
- [2016-07-08 6:22:00 PM] Collie Bro: 4-5
- [2016-07-08 6:22:08 PM] Myuer: nothing new collie
- [2016-07-08 6:22:09 PM] Myuer: go on
- [2016-07-08 6:22:19 PM] Collie Bro: ;_;
- [2016-07-08 6:22:31 PM] Collie Bro: why can't we just get this game to behave...
- [2016-07-08 6:23:10 PM] Background Pony: I think we've concluded at this point that PES16 is going to have retarded blowout games regardless, and trying to eliminate those just makes standard games extremely slurpy.
- [2016-07-08 6:24:21 PM] HT☆Rock: just bumping keeper stats doesn't help them carma
- [2016-07-08 6:24:25 PM] Background Pony: all we can do is balance it down a tad, to lessen the impact of blowouts
- [2016-07-08 6:24:35 PM] HT☆Rock: just like only bumping d.pro doesn't help 77s
- [2016-07-08 6:24:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: fine, then I say we don't buff keepers
- [2016-07-08 6:25:07 PM] HT☆Rock: then I say go fuck yourself
- [2016-07-08 6:25:14 PM] HT☆Rock: because these keeper buff games are great
- [2016-07-08 6:25:31 PM] Collie Bro: they actually are, despite the depressingly high scorelines
- [2016-07-08 6:25:39 PM] Background Pony: 77/88/99 with 80 keepers, right?
- [2016-07-08 6:25:43 PM] Collie Bro: ye
- [2016-07-08 6:25:43 PM] HT☆Rock: yep
- [2016-07-08 6:25:55 PM] Background Pony: if you guys like it, then I guess that has my vote
- [2016-07-08 6:26:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: and you're positive we can't just buffthe keeping stats?
- [2016-07-08 6:26:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: Flat stats on keepers > buffing only keeper stats then?
- [2016-07-08 6:26:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: For whatever reason
- [2016-07-08 6:26:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: fine, fuck it, the keepers in pens thing isn't a big deal anyway
- [2016-07-08 6:26:57 PM] HT☆Rock: it's the same idea as why only buffing defensive prowess made the scorelines go higher: you have better senses but you suck too bad to make use of them
- [2016-07-08 6:27:28 PM] Collie Bro: and why nerfing finishing does fuckall
- [2016-07-08 6:27:37 PM] HT☆Rock: ye
- [2016-07-08 6:27:45 PM] Collie Bro: they just knock it in anyway because they create so much space to exploit
- [2016-07-08 6:29:23 PM] Background Pony: if anything, this group has given a good insight into what the stats do, and how changing the AI isnt as simple as buffing/nerfing a single stat
- [2016-07-08 6:29:46 PM] Background Pony: should be useful if people are going to make a fan patch or something
- [2016-07-08 6:29:54 PM] Duke Silver: Thank you HT, that's pretty much exactly what I saw yesterday, I was just bashing my head into a wall trying to figure out "Why"
- [2016-07-08 6:29:56 PM] Background Pony: inb4 PES17 does everything differently
- [2016-07-08 6:32:00 PM] HT☆Rock: it will lel
- [2016-07-08 6:32:13 PM] HT☆Rock: also, the previous keeper stat only buff was 82, right?
- [2016-07-08 6:32:18 PM] Duke Silver: Yes
- [2016-07-08 6:32:25 PM] Duke Silver: Or the one that we tested at least
- [2016-07-08 6:32:31 PM] HT☆Rock: Alright cool
- [2016-07-08 6:32:54 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to do this group stage faggotry, then run KOs trying that and see if there's a difference
- [2016-07-08 6:33:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: So let's come up with a number if we do flat keeper boost
- [2016-07-08 6:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: so we can get the keeper stat only buff down in the same tests
- [2016-07-08 6:33:20 PM] Collie Bro: I'll keep my 80-across-the-board keepers into the knockouts
- [2016-07-08 6:33:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: 80?
- [2016-07-08 6:33:24 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm on 80 now
- [2016-07-08 6:33:28 PM] Collie Bro: 80
- [2016-07-08 6:33:32 PM] HT☆Rock: KOs I'm bumping keeper stats to 82
- [2016-07-08 6:33:42 PM] HT☆Rock: but just the goalkeeping stats
- [2016-07-08 6:40:35 PM] HT☆Rock: yo collie, you're saying you're getting really high scorelines?
- [2016-07-08 6:40:40 PM] HT☆Rock: Are you getting a lot of draws?
- [2016-07-08 6:40:43 PM] Collie Bro: no
- [2016-07-08 6:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: huh
- [2016-07-08 6:41:10 PM] Collie Bro: but things like 4-1 and such have been common in both these tests and my last ones
- [2016-07-08 6:42:07 PM] HT☆Rock: weird
- [2016-07-08 6:42:11 PM] HT☆Rock: what teams are you using?
- [2016-07-08 6:43:07 PM] Collie Bro: /u/ /s/ /vr/ /lit/ /tg/ /k/ /toy/ /fa/
- [2016-07-08 6:43:39 PM] Collie Bro: with JB's sliders he posted earlier
- [2016-07-08 6:43:58 PM] HT☆Rock: hmm
- [2016-07-08 6:44:12 PM] HT☆Rock: I've been running the exact teams and sliders JB had in that pastebin
- [2016-07-08 6:44:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 6:43 PM] Collie Bro:
- <<< with JB's sliders he posted earlierI never posted sliders for any of those teams though
- [2016-07-08 6:44:34 PM | Edited 6:44:53 PM] HT☆Rock: /s/ and /lit/
- [2016-07-08 6:45:09 PM] Collie Bro: yeah just those
- [2016-07-08 6:45:18 PM] HT☆Rock: what sliders are you using for the other three quarters of the teams you're testing?
- [2016-07-08 6:45:21 PM] Collie Bro: I used similar tictacs for the rest
- [2016-07-08 6:45:31 PM] HT☆Rock: ummm lol?
- [2016-07-08 6:45:40 PM] HT☆Rock: post the sliders, fam
- [2016-07-08 6:46:01 PM] Collie Bro: these are /k/'s current sliders
- [2016-07-08 6:46:14 PM] Collie Bro: PSCF3Many
- [2016-07-08 6:46:27 PM] Collie Bro: FMA66Me
- [2016-07-08 6:46:41 PM] Collie Bro: Nothing too wild or crazy
- [2016-07-08 6:47:17 PM] HT☆Rock: /k/ isn't really built for that kind of close up tiki-taka
- [2016-07-08 6:47:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: /k/ isn't really built for anything
- [2016-07-08 6:47:30 PM] HT☆Rock: this is why I said use the same teams and sliders that JB posted fam
- [2016-07-08 6:47:42 PM] Collie Bro: I never saw you say that
- [2016-07-08 6:47:44 PM] HT☆Rock: so we have data with a set of control teams
- [2016-07-08 6:47:49 PM] HT☆Rock: I said it a bunch of times
- [2016-07-08 6:47:50 PM] Collie Bro: shit
- [2016-07-08 6:48:06 PM] HT☆Rock: I popped off on BGP the first or second day because of that
- [2016-07-08 6:48:39 PM] Collie Bro: fine, post it all here so I can go and change shit
- [2016-07-08 6:52:51 PM] Collie Bro: I'd also like to point out that nobody mentioned anything when I posted my -7-5-3 results using these teams
- [2016-07-08 6:56:33 PM] Collie Bro: never mind, I went and found the tactics
- [2016-07-08 8:34:54 PM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pVcv4/f753cb26c1.txt
- group stage tests
- [2016-07-08 8:35:14 PM] Collie Bro: alright, mine will be in a while
- [2016-07-08 8:35:18 PM] Collie Bro: check back tonight
- [2016-07-08 8:36:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: that seems really low scoring considering what changes were made
- [2016-07-08 8:36:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: can you do the knockouts with no finishing nerf just to see?
- [2016-07-08 8:36:58 PM] HT☆Rock: sure fam
- [2016-07-08 8:37:04 PM] HT☆Rock: just let me watch PWG first
- [2016-07-08 8:37:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: because you're still getting games like 5(4) 3-2 3(2) but shots as a total are down
- [2016-07-08 8:37:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: so that makes me wonder if "finishing" has an ai impact we may not know about
- [2016-07-08 8:37:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: like one that would make strikers even try shooting less
- [2016-07-08 8:38:01 PM] Feedback: I wouldn't think finishing effects the frequency of shots taken though, just their accuracy
- [2016-07-08 8:38:15 PM] HT☆Rock: it's pes man
- [2016-07-08 8:38:19 PM] HT☆Rock: who the fuck knows anymore
- [2016-07-08 8:38:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: I know right, but in NGE it says finishing affects something called the Scoring Instinct combined ability and that's what makes me wonder
- [2016-07-08 8:39:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: "finishing" may not just be shot accuracy despite the name basically
- [2016-07-08 8:39:25 PM] Feedback: Wouldn't surprise me
- [2016-07-08 8:40:21 PM] Collie Bro: well that would make some sense considering finishing can also include how the shot is made, not just where it ends up
- [2016-07-08 8:40:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'm suspecting finishing isn't just shooting
- [2016-07-08 8:40:58 PM] Collie Bro: not that the strikers in my tests have gotten the message
- [2016-07-08 8:41:08 PM] Collie Bro: they're just rolling right on with 4-1 and 4-2 games
- [2016-07-08 8:41:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: lel
- [2016-07-08 8:41:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we're not certain about it I'd rather not touch it
- [2016-07-08 8:41:30 PM] Collie Bro: ^
- [2016-07-08 8:51:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: agree
- [2016-07-08 9:26:31 PM] Collie Bro: look, why don't we just go back to the version and ruleset of 2011 Summer
- [2016-07-08 9:26:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: boris makes every team?
- [2016-07-08 9:26:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure
- [2016-07-08 9:27:32 PM] HT☆Rock: well it'd be lear now
- [2016-07-08 9:28:00 PM] Collie Bro: who?
- [2016-07-08 9:28:18 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 9:27 PM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< well it'd be lear nowSo then DF would be making every team? (^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:
- [2016-07-08 9:28:38 PM] Collie Bro: he's had practice
- [2016-07-08 9:28:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 9:28 PM] Feedback:
- <<< So then DF would be making every team?t h r e e s t a r s
- [2016-07-08 9:29:27 PM | Edited 9:29:25 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 9:28 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< t h r e e s t a r sbut enough about /mu/ after Winter 2017
- [2016-07-08 9:38:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: >/wg/ gets retroactively purged from the cup's history
- [2016-07-08 9:39:14 PM] JohnnyBravo: /mu/ has always won the 2013 summer cup
- [2016-07-08 9:39:41 PM] Feedback: I will accept this possibility as well.
- [2016-07-08 9:39:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: f o u r s t a r s
- [2016-07-08 9:40:01 PM] Feedback: t e n s t a r s
- [2016-07-08 9:40:12 PM] Collie Bro: still not as many as /mlp/ ^:)
- [2016-07-08 9:40:20 PM] Collie Bro: thanks skype
- [2016-07-08 9:40:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^: )
- [2016-07-08 11:17:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: speng says 1.12
- [2016-07-08 11:17:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's mandatory at this point
- [2016-07-08 11:18:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: so that's... 10 to 0 votes in favor of 1.12
- [2016-07-08 11:18:22 PM] Collie Bro: 11, I count double because I'm such a cool guy
- [2016-07-08 11:18:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
- [2016-07-08 11:18:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: but I appreciate your enthusiasm
- [2016-07-08 11:18:37 PM] Feedback: that's dubs tho, carma
- [2016-07-08 11:18:42 PM] Feedback: which confirms it
- [2016-07-08 11:18:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh right
- [2016-07-08 11:18:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: 11 because God wills it
- [2016-07-08 11:36:37 PM] Collie Bro: so what do you think, Portugal or france for the cup?
- [2016-07-08 11:36:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
- [2016-07-08 11:36:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: suicide
- [2016-07-08 11:37:02 PM] Collie Bro: >not tsuuuuicide
- [2016-07-08 11:37:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: >tfw no Wales vs Iceland
- [2016-07-08 11:37:08 PM] JohnnyBravo: Give me the TSUUUUUU memes I guess
- [2016-07-08 11:37:21 PM] Gannon Murphy: just another reminder we're in the bad ending
- [2016-07-08 11:37:52 PM] Collie Bro: >there's a timeline where the final is Iceland vs Austria and the 4cc is on fifa
- [2016-07-08 11:40:54 PM] Duke Silver: Ok, when's the big vote, I'm sleepy.
- [2016-07-08 11:41:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: I vote for memes
- [2016-07-08 11:41:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: We already had the vote
- [2016-07-08 11:41:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: My pes14 torrent finishes soon
- [2016-07-08 11:44:17 PM] Duke Silver: this is some voter suppression right here
- [2016-07-08 11:44:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's what you get for being a minority
- [2016-07-08 11:45:00 PM] Feedback: I think we need a weighted vote system
- [2016-07-08 11:45:13 PM] Feedback: if you made the elite QFs you get 3 votes
- [2016-07-08 11:45:20 PM] Feedback: Ro16? 2 votes
- [2016-07-08 11:45:24 PM] Feedback: Anything else? 1 vote
- [2016-07-08 11:45:35 PM] Collie Bro: I'd agree with this but I'm biased
- [2016-07-08 11:46:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: if you have a star, 4 votes
- [2016-07-08 11:46:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: One vote per star
- [2016-07-08 11:46:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: Nobody else
- [2016-07-08 11:46:28 PM] Feedback: I second this motion
- [2016-07-08 11:46:35 PM] Collie Bro: One vote per goal scored against JohnnyBravo :^ )
- [2016-07-08 11:46:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok feedback what do you pick and why is it 1.12
- [2016-07-08 11:47:01 PM] King Lear: Well I kind of thought we had 24 hours to make a decision, since as long as we're goon on the 9th at some point that's close enough.
- [2016-07-08 11:47:02 PM] Feedback: 1.12 because it's literally the best ever
- [2016-07-08 11:47:06 PM] Collie Bro: hang on I still have three games left in my test
- [2016-07-08 11:47:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: Oh I thought it was today
- [2016-07-08 11:47:44 PM] Duke Silver: I don't remember anything being said about having to ANNOUNCE any rules ever, just decide on them
- [2016-07-08 11:47:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: Turns out its tomorrow
- [2016-07-08 11:47:50 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 11:47 PM] King Lear:
- <<< Well I kind of thought we had 24 hours to make a decision, since as long as we're goon on the 9th at some point that's close enough.to drop the memeing for a minute, I was under the impression that we'd have until the end of the 9th (by whatever time zone you felt was best)
- [2016-07-08 11:48:18 PM] King Lear: Yeah the end of the 9th was when I assumed I had communicated the point of no return to be.
- [2016-07-08 11:48:18 PM] Duke Silver: I thought the same thing but 6 or 7 hours ago people started talking deadlines and it got confusing
- [2016-07-08 11:48:25 PM] Feedback: although since most of us here are Americans (no offense to any of the Euros here) I feel it would be best if we operated on an NA schedule
- [2016-07-08 11:48:43 PM] Collie Bro: >no offense to any of the Euros here
- [2016-07-08 11:48:49 PM] Collie Bro: what kind of an American are you
- [2016-07-08 11:48:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: You can't offend non-people
- [2016-07-08 11:49:10 PM] Feedback: When the chips are down I'm the biggest jingoist of anyone here outside of maybe Carma
- [2016-07-08 11:49:20 PM] Feedback: but you've got to be nice.
- [2016-07-08 11:49:21 PM] King Lear: Also announcing it a few hours in an inconvenient direction for some people doesn't really matter since you're not losing any real amount of the 3 weeks 'till the deadline.
- [2016-07-08 11:49:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just announce it a week before to fuck over autists (^^:
- [2016-07-08 11:50:08 PM] Collie Bro: let's use central time then
- [2016-07-08 11:50:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: nobody's a bigger djangoist or whatever than me
- [2016-07-08 11:50:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: : ^)
- [2016-07-08 11:52:07 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 11:50 PM] Gannon Murphy:
- <<< djangoIMAGEN django unchained but only featuring carma playing everyone
- [2016-07-08 11:52:19 PM] Feedback: "You had my curiosity but now you have my memes"
- [2016-07-09 12:46:22 AM] Collie Bro: http://www.mediafire.com/download/7wf61dz442g7cye/750.docx
- [2016-07-09 12:46:32 AM] Collie Bro: group stage done, would not recommend
- [2016-07-09 12:48:09 AM] HT☆Rock: for what again?
- [2016-07-09 12:48:24 AM] Collie Bro: -7-5-0 finishing, 80 keepers
- [2016-07-09 12:49:10 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't like finishing drops either and I did a lesser one
- [2016-07-09 12:49:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: ok
- [2016-07-09 12:50:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: so: no finishing nerfs, can't go higher than like 81 for dpro, goalkeeper buffs are alright, nerfs golds are a no, what else?
- [2016-07-09 12:50:11 AM] Collie Bro: can't do pes16
- [2016-07-09 12:50:14 AM] Gannon Murphy: oh, all around buffed nonmedals are a no
- [2016-07-09 12:50:57 AM] HT☆Rock: can't wake up
- [2016-07-09 12:51:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: and wasn't it that nonmedal buffs of any kind were bad when combined with keeper buffs?
- [2016-07-09 12:53:13 AM] HT☆Rock: keepers got buffed with nonmedals by default
- [2016-07-09 12:53:28 AM | Edited 12:53:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: even with just dpro?
- [2016-07-09 12:53:39 AM] HT☆Rock: Oh, nah
- [2016-07-09 12:53:48 AM] HT☆Rock: I thought you meant nonmedal all stat buffs
- [2016-07-09 12:54:01 AM] HT☆Rock: we did dpro buffs without also buffing keepers I think
- [2016-07-09 12:54:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmm
- [2016-07-09 12:54:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: so should we try dpro 80, keepers 80?
- [2016-07-09 12:54:40 AM] HT☆Rock: no
- [2016-07-09 12:54:50 AM] HT☆Rock: dpro without any other stat buff makes defenders retarded
- [2016-07-09 12:54:56 AM] HT☆Rock: they try shit they don't have the stats for
- [2016-07-09 12:55:09 AM] Gannon Murphy: I thought that was only on higher dpro buffs
- [2016-07-09 12:55:19 AM] HT☆Rock: 80 is a higher dpro buff
- [2016-07-09 12:55:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean like 84+
- [2016-07-09 12:55:34 AM] HT☆Rock: it's in general
- [2016-07-09 12:55:49 AM] HT☆Rock: duke did 88, I did 81-2
- [2016-07-09 12:55:52 AM] HT☆Rock: BGP did 80
- [2016-07-09 12:56:01 AM] Collie Bro: How about 80 keeper/defender
- [2016-07-09 12:56:15 AM] HT☆Rock: People didn't like that
- [2016-07-09 12:56:32 AM] Collie Bro: Oh? What invitational was that
- [2016-07-09 12:56:38 AM] HT☆Rock: stat compression made games slurpy, no stat compression made things long ball city
- [2016-07-09 12:56:47 AM] HT☆Rock: we tested that on Wednesday, collie
- [2016-07-09 12:56:56 AM] Collie Bro: oh never mind, carry on
- [2016-07-09 12:57:12 AM] HT☆Rock: also we have /ag/L for that, but Harlock is iffy
- [2016-07-09 12:57:27 AM] HT☆Rock: I think just buffing keepers might be the ticket
- [2016-07-09 12:57:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: it might have to be
- [2016-07-09 12:57:36 AM] HT☆Rock: given what I'm testing now
- [2016-07-09 12:57:48 AM] Collie Bro: I'd vote for it
- [2016-07-09 12:57:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: you on 80 right now?
- [2016-07-09 12:57:51 AM] HT☆Rock: We've done fucking everything else except going to feefur at this point
- [2016-07-09 12:58:05 AM] HT☆Rock: 80 for the group stage stuff I already posted, 82 now for KOs
- [2016-07-09 12:58:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: ok
- [2016-07-09 12:58:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: which is better
- [2016-07-09 12:58:26 AM] Collie Bro: http://i.4cdn.org/f/help%20me.swf
- [2016-07-09 12:58:43 AM] HT☆Rock: not sure yet
- [2016-07-09 12:58:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: mmk
- [2016-07-09 1:01:04 AM] Gannon Murphy: http://i.4cdn.org/f/How%20to%20fix%20league%20of%20legends%20vidya%20game.swf
- [2016-07-09 1:01:31 AM] Collie Bro: thanks doc
- [2016-07-09 1:10:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: Which ruleset will bring Harambe back
- [2016-07-09 1:11:22 AM] Collie Bro: 7 niggas behind bars
- [2016-07-09 1:58:16 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pVrUw/caed82957d.txt
- [2016-07-09 1:58:24 AM] HT☆Rock: wew lads
- [2016-07-09 1:58:47 AM] HT☆Rock: well we got goals down
- [2016-07-09 1:58:56 AM] HT☆Rock: except for the /po/ asswhooping
- [2016-07-09 1:59:36 AM] Collie Bro: looks presentable at least
- [2016-07-09 2:00:30 AM] HT☆Rock: /s/ and /fit/ are bullshit in these tests man
- [2016-07-09 2:00:52 AM | Edited 2:01:06 AM] HT☆Rock: but I think that either 82 or 80 keepers, no finishing nerf is the way to go
- [2016-07-09 2:02:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: really makes you think huh
- [2016-07-09 2:03:04 AM] Collie Bro: lets do 81
- [2016-07-09 2:03:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: >yfw 81 ruins everything
- [2016-07-09 2:03:23 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck me in
- [2016-07-09 2:03:25 AM] HT☆Rock: let me die
- [2016-07-09 3:03:16 AM] Myuer: tfw I couldn't open skype till now, thx microsof
- [2016-07-09 3:03:19 AM] Myuer: Microsoft*
- [2016-07-09 3:07:39 AM] Myuer: So 1.12 and fuck it?
- [2016-07-09 8:03:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: I vote 80
- [2016-07-09 8:03:22 AM] Collie Bro: same
- [2016-07-09 8:03:45 AM] Collie Bro: hey, I was wondering where to put aesthetic folders?
- [2016-07-09 8:04:11 AM] JohnnyBravo: in the a e s t h e t i c area
- [2016-07-09 8:05:03 AM] Collie Bro: Do I create a folder somewhere or what
- [2016-07-09 8:05:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: do you have a download folder
- [2016-07-09 8:05:29 AM] Collie Bro: I'm a bit behind the times
- [2016-07-09 8:05:39 AM] Collie Bro: yee
- [2016-07-09 8:05:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: put it in there
- [2016-07-09 8:05:50 AM] Collie Bro: alright
- [2016-07-09 8:06:22 AM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pVFUI/bba853d521.png
- [2016-07-09 8:07:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: wait folders?
- [2016-07-09 8:07:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: like not compiled to a cpk?
- [2016-07-09 8:07:24 AM] Collie Bro: For example A Aesthetic Export
- [2016-07-09 8:07:34 AM] JohnnyBravo: like the kind you put on a wiki?
- [2016-07-09 8:07:47 AM] JohnnyBravo: those usually get compiled by an aesthetics guy
- [2016-07-09 8:07:55 AM] Collie Bro: ah okay
- [2016-07-09 8:08:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: and then there's a big download with everyone's aesthetics
- [2016-07-09 8:08:05 AM] JohnnyBravo: plus balls, stadiums, etc
- [2016-07-09 8:08:14 AM] JohnnyBravo: all as cpk's in a zipped file
- [2016-07-09 8:08:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: and then you dump all those cpk's in download
- [2016-07-09 8:08:27 AM] Collie Bro: now I feel less stupid for having to ask :^ )
- [2016-07-09 8:14:20 AM] Myuer: >not having all placeholders
- [2016-07-09 10:37:21 AM] Duke Silver: [July 9, 2016 12:55 AM] HT☆Rock:
- <<< duke did 88, I did 81-2
- [2016-07-09 10:37:36 AM] Duke Silver: I did 82, but it doesn't matter since I got the same thing you got at 81-82
- [2016-07-09 4:52:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: how ready are we to decide tbh
- [2016-07-09 4:52:58 PM] King Lear: Well I'm heading out in an hour and wont be back for ~8 hours so either now or later, it doesn't matter much.
- [2016-07-09 4:54:28 PM] Collie Bro: I guess now would be better
- [2016-07-09 4:54:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: mmm probably
- [2016-07-09 4:55:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://www.strawpoll.me/10707654
- [2016-07-09 4:55:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: alright let's get to it
- [2016-07-09 4:55:57 PM] King Lear: One sec let me load up my proxies.
- [2016-07-09 4:56:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok so we're basically down to a keeper buff and that's it, right?
- [2016-07-09 4:56:59 PM] Collie Bro: where's the weighted vote where QF managers get more votes?
- [2016-07-09 4:56:59 PM] King Lear: Height rules.
- [2016-07-09 4:57:02 PM] Collie Bro: ;)
- [2016-07-09 4:57:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah there seems to be a consensus for 1.04, 77/88/99 plus 80 overall keepers
- [2016-07-09 4:57:11 PM] Background Pony: Im in support of the 6x175 rule
- [2016-07-09 4:57:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: and 6x175
- [2016-07-09 4:57:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'll support 6x175
- [2016-07-09 4:57:28 PM] Collie Bro: 6x175, is that height abuse?
- [2016-07-09 4:57:40 PM] Collie Bro: I missed that part of the discussion tbh
- [2016-07-09 4:57:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: no more 170 or 165 cm players required
- [2016-07-09 4:57:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: although getting rid of manlets doesn't sit well with me for the teams that play manlets as a meme
- [2016-07-09 4:57:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can go lower if you want
- [2016-07-09 4:58:01 PM] Background Pony: its just the 170 and 165 manlets get scrapped, and you get six 175 players
- [2016-07-09 4:58:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok let's hash out exactly what we want the height rules to say
- [2016-07-09 4:58:09 PM | Edited 4:58:13 PM] King Lear: Collie you do realize the only person here who haven't made a QF is Duke.
- [2016-07-09 4:58:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: we want people to be able to play 165s if there's a meme for it right
- [2016-07-09 4:58:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: like manlet or minimalism
- [2016-07-09 4:58:34 PM] Collie Bro: yes it's a meme
- [2016-07-09 4:58:42 PM] Background Pony: You're allowed to make players shorter than 175 cm, but they will count as 175cm tall for the system (in case you prefer manlets)
- [2016-07-09 4:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
- [2016-07-09 4:58:52 PM] Collie Bro: ^
- [2016-07-09 4:58:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok
- [2016-07-09 4:59:02 PM] Feedback: Sounds reasonable.
- [2016-07-09 4:59:13 PM] King Lear: Perfect.
- [2016-07-09 4:59:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: can we get confirmation that that can be put into AATF?
- [2016-07-09 4:59:27 PM] Collie Bro: confirmed
- [2016-07-09 4:59:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: collie "nbd" bro
- [2016-07-09 4:59:42 PM] Collie Bro: I know all
- [2016-07-09 4:59:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
- [2016-07-09 5:00:03 PM] King Lear: As someone who took an introductory programming course in a language that the AATF does not use it should be fuck easy if the person making it isn't retarded.
- [2016-07-09 5:00:22 PM] Collie Bro: kinda what I went by really
- [2016-07-09 5:00:39 PM] Background Pony: I think this would make the total height 4185cm or something, for non height abuse. Not sure about height abuse.
- [2016-07-09 5:00:42 PM] Myuer: Ok
- [2016-07-09 5:00:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: just some way to say like # < 175 = 175, right?
- [2016-07-09 5:00:49 PM] Myuer: I think we are pretty even about the height.
- [2016-07-09 5:00:53 PM] Myuer: Now what about stats?
- [2016-07-09 5:00:58 PM] Collie Bro: 77/88/99
- [2016-07-09 5:01:02 PM] Collie Bro: with 80 keepers
- [2016-07-09 5:01:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: with 80 keepers
- [2016-07-09 5:01:04 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:01:21 PM] Background Pony: also 1.04
- [2016-07-09 5:01:28 PM] Collie Bro: and no harcuck
- [2016-07-09 5:01:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: of course
- [2016-07-09 5:01:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: seems redundant to us but moving to 1.04 is still a change
- [2016-07-09 5:01:44 PM] Myuer: Idk, at this point I'd put all 80 not only 80 GK
- [2016-07-09 5:01:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: from what's written
- [2016-07-09 5:01:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: all 80 nonmedals kinda sucked
- [2016-07-09 5:01:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
- [2016-07-09 5:01:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77 non-GKs was better
- [2016-07-09 5:02:08 PM] Background Pony: jeah, that's why I added it. Shouldn't forget to mention it/
- [2016-07-09 5:02:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: but for the gk's it has to be 80 in all stats to work right
- [2016-07-09 5:02:23 PM] Collie Bro: ye
- [2016-07-09 5:02:31 PM] Myuer: Dropping then Form 8 and remain standard forms?
- [2016-07-09 5:02:41 PM] Collie Bro: no form 8 pls
- [2016-07-09 5:02:43 PM | Edited 5:02:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: keep the old Form rules yes
- [2016-07-09 5:02:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, form 8 didn't seem to mean much and means less players used
- [2016-07-09 5:03:19 PM] Background Pony: form 8 keepers might actually reduce performance, because youre more likely to see green keepers
- [2016-07-09 5:03:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:04:59 PM] King Lear: Which height gets the boosted foot stats again?
- [2016-07-09 5:05:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: the 175ers
- [2016-07-09 5:05:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: make it optional to run 4/4
- [2016-07-09 5:05:23 PM | Edited 5:05:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: (179cm and below)
- [2016-07-09 5:05:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can run 2/4 on a 175 for instance
- [2016-07-09 5:05:34 PM] Background Pony: everything below 180, basically.
- [2016-07-09 5:05:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm down for it being optional
- [2016-07-09 5:05:56 PM] King Lear: Yes this is something JB had asked me about a while back, making the stuff optional.
- [2016-07-09 5:06:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: added effect of if you fuck it up, you don't get 4/4 as punishment
- [2016-07-09 5:06:20 PM] Collie Bro: wouldn't 2/4 improve the strikers?
- [2016-07-09 5:06:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: what are the foot stats called again? Usage and ability or something?
- [2016-07-09 5:06:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: usage/accuracy
- [2016-07-09 5:07:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: right
- [2016-07-09 5:07:02 PM] Background Pony: isnt 4/4 basically as good as it gets? I dont see why you would want to lower it. But sure, I guess.
- [2016-07-09 5:07:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't like 4 usage on my fullbacks
- [2016-07-09 5:07:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: in winter
- [2016-07-09 5:07:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: well if you want your 179cm winger to favor his left foot, then you make him left footed and lower usage to 1
- [2016-07-09 5:07:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: they wouldn't cross nearly as much as the 2/2's
- [2016-07-09 5:07:37 PM] Myuer: [July 9, 2016 5:07 PM] JohnnyBravo:
- <<< I didn't like 4 usage on my fullbacks
- in winterMan, I knew it :^)
- [2016-07-09 5:07:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: so I always started the two 180s lel
- [2016-07-09 5:08:13 PM] Myuer: : ^)*
- [2016-07-09 5:08:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: 4/4 plus outside curler is (mm)
- [2016-07-09 5:08:59 PM] Collie Bro: I think I'd want to see some actual tests of 2/4 before I ok'd it
- [2016-07-09 5:09:10 PM] Collie Bro: but if I'm in the minority here that's fine
- [2016-07-09 5:09:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't see a reason to not have it optional; if you don't like it you don't have to use it
- [2016-07-09 5:09:23 PM] King Lear: So you could make it 2/2 or 4/4 but not a split?
- [2016-07-09 5:09:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: you've been able to "nerf" yourself in the past
- [2016-07-09 5:09:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: like lower form or prowess
- [2016-07-09 5:10:18 PM] Background Pony: "2/2 max for 180cm players or taller" would make more sense as a rule, then
- [2016-07-09 5:10:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:10:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I like that
- [2016-07-09 5:10:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: I suppose you could do 1/2 if you wanted even
- [2016-07-09 5:10:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: more options
- [2016-07-09 5:10:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:10:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: little reason to think that's harmful
- [2016-07-09 5:10:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: but you never know I suppose
- [2016-07-09 5:11:09 PM] Collie Bro: that's why I'm cautious
- [2016-07-09 5:11:16 PM] Collie Bro: but I don't really think it'll do a whole lot
- [2016-07-09 5:11:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: I doubt it's harmful personally
- [2016-07-09 5:11:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know what you'd test about that even
- [2016-07-09 5:11:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's just another juicy nugger for managers to figure out
- [2016-07-09 5:13:16 PM] Background Pony: people might use 1/2 to set up some long range drive/swerve specialist or something
- [2016-07-09 5:14:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: imo that's cool and unlikely to be gamebreaking, and there's the downside of being worse right in front of goal, but if there's opposition here I'm open to leaving it alone
- [2016-07-09 5:14:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: I support it
- [2016-07-09 5:14:50 PM] Collie Bro: just me I think, and only as a reflex desu
- [2016-07-09 5:15:03 PM] Feedback: If it's optional I've got no reason to oppose it
- [2016-07-09 5:15:03 PM] Background Pony: Im not saying it would be gamebreaking. Just how I think that could be useful.
- [2016-07-09 5:15:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm already thinking about Nice Grill going down to 1/4 on the left wing (mm)
- [2016-07-09 5:15:14 PM] Feedback: it could open up some new tactical options
- [2016-07-09 5:15:15 PM] Background Pony: I think it would cause more trouble than its worth.
- [2016-07-09 5:15:34 PM] Background Pony: not as a rule, just if you would use it. I mean.
- [2016-07-09 5:15:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: 1/4 super le cut inside man
- [2016-07-09 5:15:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: who needs a right foot
- [2016-07-09 5:16:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh man
- [2016-07-09 5:16:24 PM] Background Pony: why would you even need weak foot accuracy if you never use it
- [2016-07-09 5:16:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: true
- [2016-07-09 5:16:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: why wouldn't you
- [2016-07-09 5:16:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: 1/1
- [2016-07-09 5:16:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: but it's more usage that you'd look to alter imo
- [2016-07-09 5:17:00 PM] Collie Bro: ^
- [2016-07-09 5:17:14 PM] Collie Bro: Let's do it, it'll be something new for the anniversary
- [2016-07-09 5:17:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: let's just say you can have usage at whatever you want, on all players, but 170 and below get 4 accuracy
- [2016-07-09 5:17:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: I just think it's a cool option
- [2016-07-09 5:17:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: so you can go 4/2 on a 189cm player
- [2016-07-09 5:17:48 PM] Gannon Murphy: but not 4/4
- [2016-07-09 5:18:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: nah make it so you can do whatever you want, capped at 2/2 at 180s and 4/4 below that
- [2016-07-09 5:18:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: manlet incentive remains
- [2016-07-09 5:18:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:18:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: because that was the original purpose of different foot acc/usage
- [2016-07-09 5:18:15 PM] Collie Bro: right
- [2016-07-09 5:18:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm ok with whatever for that honestly
- [2016-07-09 5:18:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm just trying to think of ways to make it less confusing
- [2016-07-09 5:19:11 PM] Collie Bro: Non-manlets get <= 2, manlets get <= 4
- [2016-07-09 5:19:31 PM] Collie Bro: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- [2016-07-09 5:19:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'm good with that
- [2016-07-09 5:19:41 PM] Myuer: This is how it's now
- [2016-07-09 5:19:54 PM] Myuer: only forcing 2/2 or 4/4 basically
- [2016-07-09 5:19:56 PM | Edited 5:20:06 PM] Background Pony: so, to sum up the changes:
- - 1.04
- - 77/88/99 (bronze/silver/gold) stats
- - Keepers get all 80 stats
- - Height bracket 165 and 170 removed. You get three extra players in the 175 bracket instead.
- - Players may be made shorter than 175cm, but their height still counts as 175cm for the rules system.
- - People are free to edit "weak foot usage/weak foot accuracy" to whatever value they want, but 180cm players and taller are still limited to 2/2 maximum.
- [2016-07-09 5:20:29 PM] Collie Bro: yes
- [2016-07-09 5:20:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: perfect
- [2016-07-09 5:21:00 PM] Collie Bro: unless someone has something to add/subtract I think lear can post that whenever
- [2016-07-09 5:22:24 PM] Myuer: Well, I think I'm the only one opposed to the 77, but useless to do a protest when I'm the only one.
- [2016-07-09 5:22:50 PM] Collie Bro: I can do a token protest with you
- [2016-07-09 5:22:58 PM] Collie Bro: so you don't feel left out
- [2016-07-09 5:23:15 PM] Myuer: Don't worry, majority Always win
- [2016-07-09 5:23:17 PM] Myuer: always*
- [2016-07-09 5:24:45 PM] King Lear: Also this isn't actually a democracy. It's a Leartatorship.
- [2016-07-09 5:24:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: Leartato
- [2016-07-09 5:25:18 PM] Collie Bro: A learigarchy
- [2016-07-09 5:27:33 PM] Myuer: sooo what is your final decision?
- [2016-07-09 5:28:52 PM] King Lear: Seems good.
- [2016-07-09 5:29:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 9, 2016 5:27 PM] Myuer:
- <<< sooo what is your final decision?http://www.strawpoll.me/10707654/r
- [2016-07-09 5:29:20 PM] King Lear: So if a manlet is a medal they can go 8>= and non-medals get 4>=
- [2016-07-09 5:29:39 PM] King Lear: No but this is the decision that it seems like has been reached fairly decisively.
- [2016-07-09 5:30:03 PM] King Lear: I would only override if it was a decision by one vote or a tie or something.
- [2016-07-09 5:30:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: BGP put them together quite succinctly imo
- [2016-07-09 5:30:16 PM] Duke Silver: I can't vote from my phone but I would have voted "some other gay shit" on that poll, just want you to know. But I do agree with what bgp wrote
- [2016-07-09 5:30:38 PM] HT☆Rock: ?
- [2016-07-09 5:30:41 PM] King Lear: Wait I was just confusing footing and form.
- [2016-07-09 5:30:46 PM] King Lear: For the numbers.
- [2016-07-09 5:30:56 PM] King Lear: I'm retarded pls rape my face.
- [2016-07-09 5:31:11 PM] Collie Bro: can we leak that?
- [2016-07-09 5:31:31 PM] King Lear: Sure. As long as you say that the announcement will follow momentarily
- [2016-07-09 5:31:43 PM] King Lear: I just need to pick out a wallpaper.
- [2016-07-09 5:34:52 PM] King Lear: The deed is done.
- [2016-07-09 5:35:06 PM] Collie Bro: does... does that mean we're free to go?
- [2016-07-09 5:35:19 PM] King Lear: Get the fuck out of my face.
- [2016-07-09 5:35:25 PM] Collie Bro: FREEDOM
- [2016-07-09 5:35:30 PM] King Lear: But seriously guys thanks for all the help.
- [2016-07-09 5:35:47 PM] Collie Bro: no problem, it was a pleasure at times
- [2016-07-09 5:35:50 PM] King Lear: This is what we needed to do before Winter but better late than never.
- [2016-07-09 5:35:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: mhmm
- [2016-07-09 5:38:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: we can lower taller players' footedness to 1 though, right?
- [2016-07-09 5:38:45 PM] Collie Bro: yeah
- [2016-07-09 5:39:59 PM] Duke Silver: Can someone throw me a thread link?
- [2016-07-09 5:40:10 PM] Myuer: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137/4ccg-eternal-shitposting-general#p147958648
- [2016-07-09 5:40:10 PM] Background Pony: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137#p147958648
- [2016-07-09 5:40:40 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm free
- [2016-07-09 5:40:43 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm finally free
- [2016-07-09 5:40:48 PM] HT☆Rock: (cwl)
- [2016-07-09 5:43:55 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137#p147959393
- Someone post their test cup.
- [2016-07-09 5:44:38 PM] Duke Silver: Hey cool /4ccg/ is retardeds, I'd never have been able to guess
- [2016-07-09 5:44:51 PM] Feedback: [July 9, 2016 5:44 PM] Duke Silver:
- <<< Hey cool /4ccg/ is retardeds, I'd never have been able to guessmore at 11
- [2016-07-09 5:51:23 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm banned for some reason
- [2016-07-09 5:51:28 PM] HT☆Rock: someone yell at 4ccg for me
- [2016-07-09 5:51:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: kek
- [2016-07-09 5:51:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: show us the reason
- [2016-07-09 5:53:15 PM] Myuer: should we post
- [2016-07-09 5:53:20 PM] Myuer: the testing data too or?
- [2016-07-09 5:53:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
- [2016-07-09 5:56:34 PM] Duke Silver: All of the testing data was posted last night, you could repost it until the cows come home and it'll get shit on
- [2016-07-09 5:58:38 PM] HT☆Rock: just post a pastebin that says "imgay"
- [2016-07-09 6:06:19 PM] Background Pony: what were the stat nerfs for height abuse players again?
- [2016-07-09 6:06:30 PM] HT☆Rock: same as it ever was
- [2016-07-09 6:06:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: -3, -4, -5?
- [2016-07-09 7:27:24 PM] Smugleaf: Hold up, we brought in the -3, -4, -5 for height abuse?
- [2016-07-09 7:27:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: Wasn't it already that
- [2016-07-09 7:27:50 PM] Smugleaf: Wait
- [2016-07-09 7:27:55 PM] Smugleaf: Was it
- [2016-07-09 7:27:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: Height abuse rules are unchanged
- [2016-07-09 7:28:18 PM] Smugleaf: No, it was based on medals
- [2016-07-09 7:28:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: Over 189: 95 golds 84 silvers 77 keepers 74 everything else
- [2016-07-09 7:28:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yes
- [2016-07-09 7:28:26 PM] Smugleaf: I thought you meant it was based on heights
- [2016-07-09 7:28:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's what I had meant
- [2016-07-09 7:28:29 PM] Smugleaf: nvrmnd
- [2016-07-09 7:28:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: No?
- [2016-07-09 7:28:45 PM] Smugleaf: As in, 205 is -5
- [2016-07-09 7:28:48 PM] Smugleaf: But that's cool ye
- [2016-07-09 7:48:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: so are we allowing 155cm players now?
- [2016-07-09 7:50:25 PM] Smugleaf: Guess so
- [2016-07-09 8:03:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: cool
- [2016-07-09 8:04:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: dunno why anyone would tho lel
- [2016-07-09 8:04:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: what's cool about the new system is that a 160 or so cm player is going to look sooooooo small
- [2016-07-09 8:06:40 PM] HT☆Rock: that's my fetish
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