PWN Sale Discussion with Smiles

HKim-12/17/2017
I don't want to bring this up now.
But I don't know the right time either.
But we're both in an awkward situation regarding this if you're discussing it with PWN Staff.

Smiles-12/17/2017
Yes, we are ): I apologize for the awkwardness of all of this

HKim-12/17/2017
it's not your fault. It's just...
Well maybe it's my fault.
Well....
The two things are that
You have to decide what you think is right, sure.
But removing the URPG probably does kill PWN.
In terms of activity.

Smiles-12/17/2017
It certainly would... We have been relying on urpg activity to carry us on, but perhaps this whole moment is indicative of a greater change that's been happening across here and PWN. I really like to think I did everything I could for PWN, but patterns have been happening that are difficult to control

HKim-12/17/2017
I feel the same way.
The second thing is, of course, PWN ownership.
I want to assure you that whatever you decide, I...
I won't delete PWN.
Or force you to make a different decision.
That would be.... bullying. And I don't want to be Bulbagarden.
But if you do remove the URPG, I would like you or someone else to buy PWN off me then.

Smiles-12/17/2017
I can completely appreciate that! What is pwn's price, btw? As well as server cost - I know Ray handles things technical wise, and just for logistical avenue planning would be interested in what that transition would look like
So I can also give staff members all the options

HKim-12/17/2017
It'd be complicated and I don't know what the price is. I think I got it for a few hundred.
I have to check again though to be sure.

HKim-12/17/2017
I have to ask you this, unfortunately.
But do you think we need to warn URPG members that our branch on PWN could be closed?

Smiles-12/17/2017
At this moment, not currently. I'm holding an emergency staff meeting, of which I just need one more moderator online to contribute to. Whatever the case may be, we will make an official announcement. If things were to end up for the worst situation, we would give a timeframe wherein people could retrieve all their belongings from the urpg section!

HKim-12/17/2017
Okay.

December 18, 2017
HKim-12/18/2017
Are these documents that URPG staff never saw before?
Or things we reviewed already.

Smiles-12/18/2017
I assume non-reviewed

HKim-12/18/2017
Okay.

HKim-12/18/2017
Do we have a timeline on the PWN decision?

Smiles-12/18/2017
I would say three business days counting today as one

HKim-12/18/2017
Okay, thanks.

December 19, 2017
Smiles-12/19/2017
hi Harry! I'm considering buying PWN. What is your final price quote?

Smiles-12/19/2017
Stats of course will be saved! I just want the server

HKim-12/19/2017
I assume you want the domain name too.
Though I do not wish to make a decision on it yet until after the verdict from PWN staff.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Awesome! Yes, I would like the domain name. Verdict is still pending - I just want proof of cost and what ballpark I'm in here. URPG stats are guaranteed of course for a time period regardless of your choice
Is this just a transfer of server ownership, from my understanding?

HKim-12/19/2017
You'd have ownership of the domain name and databse, but not the server (which is a service I pay for through Amazon hosting).
At some point, you'd have to transfer the site off my hosting.
I'd need to check with Ray on the price.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Can you explain more of that process?
Of transferring the site hosting?

HKim-12/19/2017
Mmmm
I don't htink I can explain it better than that. Monbrey or Ray would be more knowledgeable
A forum is a bit more complex than a wordpress site
It's mostly a matter of transferring the data from one server to another.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Alright, no worries! I'll find out more
I will be buying the domain / database once we figure this out

HKim-12/19/2017
Depends if I'm selling. We'll see. But I appreciate your interest.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Is it for sale or not?
I'm getting conflicting messages here haha

HKim-12/19/2017
I haven't decided yet. I'm waiting on the URPG verdict from PWN Staff.

Smiles-12/19/2017
As this is a matter of business I would like this to be professional

HKim-12/19/2017
I just don't know if I feel comfortable selling something that has the URPG on it after what happened on BMG.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Why?

HKim-12/19/2017
I had a guarantee from BMG that URPG has ownership over everything in its boards.
Yet here we are begging for that information.
I may have your guarantee now, but I don't know if I'll have that guarantee if you sell it past that or so on and so forth.
What if the next owner does the same thing to the URPG?
I've given my trust too freely I think.

Smiles-12/19/2017
I think this is all a concerning time when it comes to trust. If anything, I understand that the trust I've had in others has been violated, and I'm sure the situation has made me violate others' trusts (I truly am sorry I cannot share the document itself.)
I would like to assure you that 1) the pwn talks aren't up to me right now as much, because I do understand the power of my own biases. 2) the decision is still being deliberated upon and also 3) regardless of what happens from here on, I will make sure that the URPG has time to gather its information. I too have served this game, written stories, enjoyed parts of it for over five years, so I understand the importance of being able to have access to that which you've written and created.

HKim-12/19/2017
Hmmm
I might not want to sell it yet anyway.
It's possible I could transfer teh URPG section info over to PXR completely.
Should PWN vote against it.
The software is the same on the backend, but I'd still need Ray and time to work it out.

Smiles-12/19/2017
You're welcome to do so! I will assist in gathering the data. I just want the domain

HKim-12/19/2017
We'll see, Smiles.

Smiles-12/19/2017
So because of this new information from what I was told, I believe we will need to readjust our verdict time frame.
What is your timeframe for knowing the costs?

HKim-12/19/2017
Depends on how fast Ray gets back to me.

Smiles-12/19/2017
We also cannot make a decision until we know what your decision is on the server in this

HKim-12/19/2017
Why not?

Smiles-12/19/2017
I'm not trying to hold urpg hostage or anything haha, and in good faith I ask that you not hold this community of PWN that I've worked hard on with my heart for over five years hostage either

HKim-12/19/2017
If you really have to ask that of me, Smiles; then I fear you never knew me at all.
No, I'm not holding PWN hostage.

Smiles-12/19/2017
I'm not assuming the worst of you, I just want a shared understanding.
and I'm not holding URPG hostage
I'm still a moderator of this game

HKim-12/19/2017
I never doubted that otherwise.
I didn't even think we needed to have a conversation about this.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Yes! It's been a crazy time, and I just want to emphasize that I do want to defend urpg's interests of course

HKim-12/19/2017
I know. I still don't understand why the staff needs to know if I'm going to sell or not.

Smiles-12/19/2017
Mhhm! PWN doesn't want its opinion to be influenced by your decision to sell or not - kinda like a messy chicken and egg

HKim-12/19/2017
Okay then.

Smiles-12/19/2017
We still would like a timeframe
if it helps at all - I was here for the BMG closure too, and among a lot of chaos I saw how much it hurt all of our members. I would never do such a thing so rashly, no matter what!

HKim-12/19/2017
Sigh. Smiles, if PWN wants to remove URPG then I'll sell it to you.
If it doesn't, I have to think about it.
That's all I have for now
Ray is asleep now, likely, I hope he'll reply to me tomorrow
I do not know. He might still be in Japan

Smiles-12/19/2017
Okay! so we're all still considering, there's a lot to process for everyone I think, but thanks so much! It'll be nice to hear from Ray again for sure! and hopefully he can give more guidance on pricing, since there's a lot I don't know about it currently

December 21, 2017
HKim-12/21/2017
I don't know if there is a way to do this because I'm an admin on PWN, but remove my URPG staff access.
Please.

Smiles-12/21/2017
I can see what I can do, I'm so sorry ):

HKim-12/21/2017
Thank you.

Smiles-12/21/2017
I just tried, I don't have the privilege to be able to alter your user groups ):

HKim-12/21/2017
That's fine.
I'll just keep out of the section.

Smiles-12/21/2017
gotcha!

HKim-12/21/2017
Maybe I can edit myself
Ah, can't either
need to backend it

Smiles-12/21/2017
alright, let me know if there's anything I can do! :<

December 22, 2017
HKim-12/22/2017
I have a question.
Is my ownership of PWN hurting the chances of the URPG remaining on PWN?

Smiles-12/22/2017
Related to URPG directly, I would say no; however, I would more so say that recent decisions have shook the PWN staff as a whole and have made us question, overall, how your ownership would impact the forum's health and future

HKim-12/22/2017
Would selling PWN to you improve the chances of URPG staying on PWN?

HKim-12/22/2017
I didn't quite understand your answer.

Smiles-12/22/2017
PWN staff have decided to continue supporting URPG on PWN in any and all ways we can ^^ I think your decision to sell the forums to us if we closed URPG started a bit of a rumble for the PWN staff.
We've always been under the impression that you supported all of PWN, so to hear that you would disembark on the basis of URPG's condition on PWN felt like a bit of a low blow to us
But we did want to be aware of all of our options before proceeding.

HKim-12/22/2017
I could be wrong. I believe you misinterpreted what I said in our previous conversations.
Like we both said, neither of us was blackmailing the other about URPG or PWN.
I was merely being honest about my feelings.
For example, before this all went down, I was a supporter of Bulbagarden. I thought they did good work.
When they removed the URPG, it felt like a betrayal. And my feelings on them turned negative.
Regardless of whether they were justified or not, I did not feel positive towards them from that point forward.
PWN is different, of course. I bought it from LaZ to save it from whatever crazy thing he was planning. I've supported your endeavors and those of Felly's and the staff.
I believe in what we do in the community.
However PWN removing the URPG would still feel like a betrayal to me, even if justified. It would hurt me.
And those negative feelings would conflict with the positive ones I have for the community.
Honestly, I don't know if I would want to remain owner with those mixed feelings. And reasonably, the PWN community might not want an owner with mixed feelings either.
So it was only natural to tell you that if such a decision were to occur, I'd be inclined to sell PWN to you.
PWN deserves an owner that believes 100% in what its doing.
If PWN didn't remove the URPG, I would still retain the positive feelings for the community.
But... I am tired. A lot has happened in the last few weeks. And I needed more time to think in that situation.
Based on what you have said now, if the PWN Staff is not comfortable with me being owner and is concerned that my presence would serve as negative influence to it's health and future.
Then I can understand if they would want me to leave.

Smiles-12/22/2017
Thanks so much for explaining more of that to me - I think it was definitely a trial period for the URPG and for so many of the staff. We at PWN definitely love URPG and are so excited to continue its relationship with the forum! I recognize that I probably should have bought PWN from you a long time ago; you had originally bought it I believe to save us from Arun lol, and his schemes, and that's very much appreciated! I also feel like we have an obligation to purchase PWN now, because we don't want to burden you with the site, especially after all that occurred

HKim-12/22/2017
It probably is for the best. I don't want anything to taint PWN and you should have the opportunity to forge your own destiny without me.
I want to sell it to you for $300. I bought it from Arun for $265. I want to give the remaining $35 to Ray for his work in transitioning it all to you.

Smiles-12/22/2017
Would you be able to attach proof of purchase?

HKim-12/22/2017
I can write up an agreement with you via email.

Smiles-12/22/2017
Also, what's the process for paying the monthly server fees?

HKim-12/22/2017
We should have witnesses
I recommend Raymond, a PWN Leader, and Swift.
It's up to you how you want to host it. I like the Amazon web service.
But there are many different servers out there.
Ray and I even bought our own once
(It was a bad idea).
Is there anyone on the PWN Staff that is technically inclined?

Smiles-12/22/2017
I believe Verzerrung is!
Also, are they all mostly $30 per month? tbh, I think this is a natural conversation I would have had with you at some point, but I think the timing in all of this is incredibly unfortunate. I'm in my master's program right now, and both of my student jobs go towards paying my rent, so I'm trying to optimize here for the best price (and connection quality!)

HKim-12/22/2017
Let me go ahead and look at my payments
I have it automated and we've been adjusting it up and down to find the right balance
Looks like I've been paying Amazong somewhere between $72 and $92 dollars per month to host PXR and PWN.
72 most recently.
I'm not sure how much the baseline would be.
Ray (and Verzerrung and Monbrey) would know more about that.

December 23, 2017
HKim-12/23/2017
I'll write up a message to the PWN Staff about this and go over the detaisl with you here.
We can attach logs or whatever too.
I imagine Swift should see them since it affects him.

Smiles-12/23/2017
Sure, yes, I think it'd be best for us to all be on the same page.

HKim-12/23/2017
Also, I want to go ahead and tell you that I'm sorry for the trouble I've caused you Smiles.
I should have listened to you more and I know that working with me hasn't been easy.
I'm sorry that I was negligent and foolish and hurt you both directly and indirectly.
I apologize for my failures. I want you to only have the best.

Smiles-12/23/2017
The apology is very much appreciated, thanks so much, Harry! I'm sorry this all had to happen this way. ): You've done so much for the URPG and PWN and I hope you know we will remember you as a leader!

HKim-12/23/2017
Heh, I'm pretty sure I will be remembered as a leader. Just like Nixon.

Smiles-12/23/2017
Def not the worst thing! hahaha!

January 28, 2018
HKim-Last Sunday at 7:12 PM
I'm sorry to see you go, Smiles, but I understand the feeling. I have similar thoughts.
Since you are departing, I would like to know who you would like to replace you on PWN.

January 29, 2018
Smiles-Yesterday at 7:00 AM
Hi Harry! A great question
I've already thought about this for a couple of weeks, and after some careful consideration I believe Liam would best serve my role from here on! And he is excited about the prospect of the position and all that he'll do!

HKim-Yesterday at 8:51 AM
Makes sense. From what you said, I assume you spoken to him about it and he accepted?(edited)

Smiles-Yesterday at 9:39 AM
I have! He is excited to begin! And I will help him transition too

HKim-Yesterday at 3:49 PM
Okay then. Thank you for working that out and for your years of service and dedication.
I wish you the best in your endeavors.