17:28 <penguin_> hi lattera
17:28 <penguin_> you seem to know about the market
17:28 <penguin_> wanna help me a bit with finding the right course?
17:29 <lattera> I think what livinded and I both suggested were good routes to go
17:29 <lattera> get your Security+, get your foot in the door by getting hired at a small company or startup
17:29 <lattera> write papers, contribute to opensource pen testing tools
17:29 <lattera> do presentations
17:29 <lattera> eventually get your CISSP
17:30 <penguin_> i can't get through i ve been trying for years
17:30 <lattera> what have you been doing?
17:30 <penguin_> i worked on an intermship
17:30 <penguin_> with some company, but i did not benefit from that
17:31 <penguin_> now its really hard to get a job in security
17:31 <penguin_> i got friends who graduated from sans.edu
17:31 <penguin_> and they got some top jobs, when they previously had nothing to do with security
17:31 <penguin_> just because of their postgrd degree in information security
17:32 <penguin_> no experience even
17:32 <lattera> they likely either knew someone there or just got lucky
17:32 <penguin_> im a programmer
17:32 <lattera> I lost my job as a security analyst, now I'm working as IT support
17:32 <lattera> but the company is already looking to switch me over to security
17:32 <penguin_> that happened to me aswell
17:33 <lattera> so a lot of times, it's just getting your foot in the door, even if it's not for the job you're looking for
17:33 <penguin_> its a really tough market
17:33 <penguin_> working in IT Support, i realised that they use you, and then kick you outta the door
17:33 <penguin_> they promise you stuff
17:33 <lattera> nah, this is different
17:33 <penguin_> but they never comply, they just keep you on the line (companies)
17:34 <penguin_> yea perhaps
17:34 <lattera> my employer is rapidly expanding
17:34 <penguin_> i would say find a bug on his website, and show it to him
17:35 <penguin_> lattera
17:35 <penguin_> is there such a job as a security analyst then
17:35 <lattera> yup
17:36 <penguin_> and whats the purpose of an information security analyst
17:36 <penguin_> or risk analyst
17:36 <lattera> find vulnerabilities, exploit them, and if requested, patch them
17:36 <lattera> at least, that was my job
17:36 <penguin_> thats a researcher
17:36 <penguin_> security research
17:36 <penguin_> e.g: secunia
17:37 <penguin_> i can help you get a good job in security if you want
17:37 <penguin_> if you are as good as you say
17:37 <lattera> never said I was good ;)
17:37 <penguin_> heh
17:37 <lattera> but I do consider myself pretty decent
17:37 <penguin_> hm
17:38 <penguin_> why not make your own then ?
17:38 <lattera> make my own company?
17:38 <penguin_> yea
17:38 <penguin_> create opportunity for yourself
17:38 <penguin_> if opportunity is not there
17:38 <lattera> because you need contracts, you need contacts, you need a lot of stuff
17:38 <lattera> stuff I don't have
17:38 <penguin_> i can help you build it
17:38 <lattera> and time I don't have to invest in gaining that kind of stuff
17:39 <penguin_> keep the it job
17:39 <penguin_> get the money
17:39 <penguin_> and make something which is gona be yours
17:39 <penguin_> i am very experienced in pen testing
17:39 <penguin_> but very unlucky
17:39 <penguin_> ;)
17:39 <lattera> I'm kinda confused... you say you can't get a job in security, yet you claim to be able to help me start a security company?
17:39 <penguin_> i can't get a job because im not lucky and lack qualifications
17:39 <lattera> and you can provide contacts, contracts, etc.
17:40 <penguin_> but im very good at it
17:40 <penguin_> yea
17:40 <penguin_> this is what you need  : a website
17:40 <lattera> so if you can provide that stuff for me, why can't you provide it for youself?
17:40 <penguin_> marketing
17:40 <penguin_> cause the works its too much for 1 person
17:40 <penguin_> work load
17:40 <lattera> I don't really do business with people I haven't met in real life, anyways
17:41 <lattera> at least, as far as this kind of stuff is concerned
17:41 <penguin_> yea i know its hard
17:41 <penguin_> im on the same boat
17:41 <penguin_> heh
17:41 <penguin_> this is how it works
17:41 <lattera> there's no reason for me to trust you, you'd have to come to defcon, I'd have to meet you, etc.
17:41 <penguin_> im not in the us
17:42 <penguin_> i could be your point of contact
17:42 <lattera> there are a lot of people who fly in from other countries to go to defcon
17:42 <penguin_> they aint that good to be worth it
17:42 <lattera> I don't start businesses with people I don't know
17:42 <penguin_> heh
17:42 <penguin_> its just some gerontics
17:42 <penguin_> who do over and over the same things
17:42 <penguin_> well you ve tried to help me a bit
17:43 <penguin_> so my advice to you at the moment is:  1. keep the it job and get the money
17:43 <penguin_> 2. you can invest it or save for later and start your own company
17:43 <penguin_> 3. things you need: to be quick and efficient
17:43 <penguin_> hows that done? automated tools msf is good
17:44 <penguin_> you don't need 0day exploits, its different from blackhat
17:44 <penguin_> and you do research and get known
17:44 <penguin_> post vulnerabilities, and people will learn about the company
17:45 <penguin_> are you here?
17:45 <penguin_> :)
17:45 <penguin_> the point is to mix with the right people