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- **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 16 19:13:49 2012
- Jul 16 19:13:49 * Now talking on #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:13:57 <tboat> timg let me get op real quick
- Jul 16 19:13:57 * timg gives channel operator status to thearrowflies
- Jul 16 19:14:01 * timg gives channel operator status to tboat
- Jul 16 19:14:30 * ArrowBot (~ArrowBot@209-6-41-37.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:14:39 * timg gives channel operator status to ArrowBot
- Jul 16 19:14:42 * gabe1118 (43bdcc35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.189.204.53) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:15:11 * baffler (~kvirc@76.72.202.67) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:15:13 <tboat> .list
- Jul 16 19:15:13 <ArrowBot> tboat: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Dict, Games, Google, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Note, Owner, Plugin, Reply, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Time, User, Utilities, and Web
- Jul 16 19:15:30 * Fast_Absorbing (~chatzilla@cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust263.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:15:33 * Filter_ (~Filtered@pool-72-91-72-84.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:15:45 * Kennythehitman (~Kennytheh@66-169-149-117.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:15:49 * centigrade233 (ad36801b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.54.128.27) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:16:22 * FRodrigues (55f1af97@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.241.175.151) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:16:32 * Rubicks (~Nick@cpe-75-185-78-15.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:16:43 * pulse40 (~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:17:13 <SlimTim10> so how many people here want the desktop project to be in Python?
- Jul 16 19:17:24 <tboat> ****If you left #rProgCollab, rejoin, you should always be in that channel if you are in the others, think of it as the main, these as party chats
- Jul 16 19:17:30 * DrosophiliaMaxim (c01160d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.17.96.208) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:17:39 <calzone21> yes please
- Jul 16 19:17:51 <Rubicks> Python is still a screwy language to me haha, after doing so much C# I haven't really grown to like it
- Jul 16 19:18:03 <thearrowflies> i kinda wanted it to be java/c#
- Jul 16 19:18:07 <centigrade233> I only know python, so...
- Jul 16 19:18:09 <baffler> I'm wanting C#
- Jul 16 19:18:12 <thearrowflies> but python works if thats what everyone wants
- Jul 16 19:18:14 <Filter_> C++
- Jul 16 19:18:18 <Filter_> ?
- Jul 16 19:18:20 <thearrowflies> or c++
- Jul 16 19:18:22 * TheDuceCat (~TheDuceCa@pool-108-14-103-48.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:18:28 <gabe1118> java would be nice
- Jul 16 19:18:37 <Babelius> lolcode
- Jul 16 19:18:40 <neTTos> I think C# is not cross platform and would be difficult
- Jul 16 19:18:40 <miyako> I think that we should havee the initial part of this discussion in the main channel, and work out details here afterwards if we can't acheive a consensus there
- Jul 16 19:18:41 <G14> who is the project leader for this one?
- Jul 16 19:18:43 <thearrowflies> main channel for now
- Jul 16 19:18:45 <FRodrigues> tboat: set that as topic
- Jul 16 19:18:45 <Rubicks> Psh memory management is a thing of the past, if this is a desktop app I don't see the need to do C++
- Jul 16 19:18:45 <TheDuceCat> +1 babelius
- Jul 16 19:18:55 * Marshall_H (~marshall@wireless-184-12-12-79.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:19:01 <neTTos> But first we should figure out the project idea
- Jul 16 19:19:01 <SlimTim10> the project leader has not yet been decided
- Jul 16 19:19:05 <SlimTim10> it depends on the project
- Jul 16 19:19:13 <thearrowflies> duce is leader
- Jul 16 19:19:17 <TheDuceCat> me and miyako
- Jul 16 19:19:21 <timg> SlimTim10 is a leader of some kind
- Jul 16 19:19:23 <SlimTim10> I can lead a project in C, Python, Perl, PHP, or Scheme
- Jul 16 19:19:28 <timg> I already forget which
- Jul 16 19:19:34 <TheDuceCat> tboat already announced leaders
- Jul 16 19:19:38 <SlimTim10> not in C#, C++, or Java
- Jul 16 19:19:42 <SlimTim10> so we may need two projects
- Jul 16 19:19:45 * Rosur (Rosur@oceanware.plus.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:20:03 <Fast_Absorbing> I also like python
- Jul 16 19:20:08 <TheDuceCat> py is nice
- Jul 16 19:20:09 <Rubicks> SlimTim10 if you know all of those, C# and Java should be easy to pick up
- Jul 16 19:20:21 <SlimTim10> I didn't say I couldn't pick them up/don't know them
- Jul 16 19:20:21 <TheDuceCat> C# is great but mainly windows only
- Jul 16 19:20:25 <SlimTim10> I will not lead a project in either
- Jul 16 19:20:33 <baffler> mono?
- Jul 16 19:21:07 <Rosur> know some pyhton
- Jul 16 19:21:21 <TheDuceCat> mono is cross platform .net
- Jul 16 19:22:53 <Fast_Absorbing> Let's count how many want python? it seems to be a majority
- Jul 16 19:23:12 <Marshall_H> aye for python
- Jul 16 19:23:34 <Fast_Absorbing> aye from me too
- Jul 16 19:23:47 <calzone21> python!
- Jul 16 19:24:02 <TheDuceCat> python is nice but for bigger gui projects im not sure
- Jul 16 19:24:13 <thearrowflies> if python wins then ill go python
- Jul 16 19:24:16 <SlimTim10> the first project is supposed to be a small one
- Jul 16 19:24:17 <thearrowflies> but im voting for other langs
- Jul 16 19:24:28 <TheDuceCat> how small we talking here
- Jul 16 19:24:34 <Rosur> python i vote for as can at least follow along with that
- Jul 16 19:24:41 * Bradford (~Bradford@c-24-7-159-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:24:41 <Rubicks> Let's stick with the main channel for now, so we don't miss everything there. But I agree with thearrowflies and TheDuceCat, I see trouble with bigger projects
- Jul 16 19:24:41 <Marshall_H> python doesnt have bad gui, but C++ would be my secondary, although I already know C++ I still would love to learn more.
- Jul 16 19:24:45 * intothev01d (~intothev0@8.27.217.75) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:24:46 <centigrade233> smaller than a breadbox
- Jul 16 19:25:20 <SlimTim10> not all projects have a GUI
- Jul 16 19:25:24 <SlimTim10> and the first one should not
- Jul 16 19:25:25 <TheDuceCat> true
- Jul 16 19:25:32 <TheDuceCat> depends on the task
- Jul 16 19:25:39 <BrotherGA2> python is all I know... so...
- Jul 16 19:25:40 <TheDuceCat> some tasks are a pain without a gui some aren't
- Jul 16 19:25:49 <SlimTim10> the idea here is to learn programming
- Jul 16 19:25:54 <SlimTim10> narrowing it down to one language is enough
- Jul 16 19:25:59 <Rubicks> It's about getting a decent number of experienced programmers something to do... not just finish something quickly. I don't want to write something htat I could personally write in a week
- Jul 16 19:26:00 <SlimTim10> narrowing it down to GUI programming is a bit too much
- Jul 16 19:26:11 <Rubicks> and then to mentor the weaker ones
- Jul 16 19:26:18 <thearrowflies> gui programming in java is really easy
- Jul 16 19:26:18 <DrosophiliaMaxim> second python
- Jul 16 19:26:20 <TheDuceCat> GUI only opens doors it doesn't close any
- Jul 16 19:26:23 <DrosophiliaMaxim> and java
- Jul 16 19:26:30 <SlimTim10> if it's a project you could write in a week, you probably don't need to be here :P
- Jul 16 19:26:44 <SlimTim10> GUI in itself is a door to first be opened
- Jul 16 19:26:50 <SlimTim10> many people here are very new to programming
- Jul 16 19:27:01 <SlimTim10> jumping straight to GUI programming would be too much of a leap
- Jul 16 19:27:14 <Rubicks> SlimTim10 I'm here to help out and enjoy some collaboration :D I'll probably take more of a mentoring job then actually spitting out coe
- Jul 16 19:27:16 <Rubicks> code*
- Jul 16 19:27:17 <TheDuceCat> but what could we make that is small but expansive enough for a lot of people
- Jul 16 19:27:32 <SlimTim10> that's good, Rubicks
- Jul 16 19:27:40 <thearrowflies> a person doesnt necesarily have to work on every aspect of something
- Jul 16 19:27:45 <thearrowflies> someone could work on only networkking
- Jul 16 19:27:47 <thearrowflies> someone else on gui
- Jul 16 19:27:59 <TheDuceCat> exactly
- Jul 16 19:28:06 <SlimTim10> now you're talking about a large project
- Jul 16 19:28:10 <Marshall_H> I enjoy network programming.
- Jul 16 19:28:18 <TheDuceCat> you can't have 30 people working on a small project
- Jul 16 19:28:24 <TheDuceCat> there's not enough to do
- Jul 16 19:28:27 <TheDuceCat> people will be left out
- Jul 16 19:28:29 <TheDuceCat> it's not fair
- Jul 16 19:28:31 <SlimTim10> it depends on the project
- Jul 16 19:28:36 <thearrowflies> we have 26 people in here, if we add a gui, that would involve more people in different things
- Jul 16 19:28:42 <SlimTim10> it could be a highly expansive project that doesn't integrate GUI and network programming
- Jul 16 19:28:45 <intothev01d> wasn't that the idea of smaller projects in various languages?
- Jul 16 19:28:47 <Fast_Absorbing> thearrowflies: why not both?
- Jul 16 19:28:54 <SlimTim10> for example, an IRC bot
- Jul 16 19:28:59 <SlimTim10> many commands could be implemented
- Jul 16 19:29:04 <TheDuceCat> GUI possible
- Jul 16 19:29:04 <gabe1118> or an irc client
- Jul 16 19:29:05 <SlimTim10> each person could write a new command
- Jul 16 19:29:13 <thearrowflies> it can be both
- Jul 16 19:29:13 <SlimTim10> but nobody has to write GUI or network programming
- Jul 16 19:29:18 <SlimTim10> just as an example
- Jul 16 19:29:32 <Rubicks> Yeah, networking is a pretty big task
- Jul 16 19:29:43 <Marshall_H> I enjoy networking programming, to me it has the highest reward
- Jul 16 19:29:44 <SlimTim10> multiple projects is a good idea
- Jul 16 19:29:46 <miyako> one of my areas of expertise is in network programming
- Jul 16 19:29:46 <Rubicks> network programming can lead to tons of issues that inexperienced folks would have a hard time doing
- Jul 16 19:29:49 <SlimTim10> I'm only talking about the Python project
- Jul 16 19:29:55 <Rubicks> But yeah, it's awesome stuff :D
- Jul 16 19:30:00 <calzone21> sorry if it has been stated already but the desktop application we're building is going to be windows-based?
- Jul 16 19:30:10 <TheDuceCat> hopefully cros splatform
- Jul 16 19:30:11 <SlimTim10> calzone21, no
- Jul 16 19:30:24 <SlimTim10> we are deciding on a Python project that is cross-platform
- Jul 16 19:30:50 <timg> sweet
- Jul 16 19:30:50 <calzone21> ah alright, thanks for the clarification!
- Jul 16 19:30:55 <miyako> by the way, I've not been following this discussion all that closely because I'm trying to keep up in the main meeting- should we try to hold off on these discussions a bit until we can bring them up there?
- Jul 16 19:30:57 <thearrowflies> so then c++ is out
- Jul 16 19:31:07 <TheDuceCat> don't talk languages yet
- Jul 16 19:31:07 <thearrowflies> because it would be hard to manage things for different os's
- Jul 16 19:31:16 <SlimTim10> thearrowflies, C++ is not out
- Jul 16 19:31:20 <TheDuceCat> don't even think about language until you have a proper problem solution in mind
- Jul 16 19:31:25 <thearrowflies> ok
- Jul 16 19:31:28 <SlimTim10> like I said, I'm just talking about one project
- Jul 16 19:31:39 <SlimTim10> if someone else wants to lead a C++ project, I'm sure a few people here would like it
- Jul 16 19:32:04 <SlimTim10> TheDuceCat, the language is more important than the problem solution right now
- Jul 16 19:32:09 <Babelius> TheDuceCat is right, determine the problem before determining the language
- Jul 16 19:32:16 <SlimTim10> I disagree
- Jul 16 19:32:17 <miyako> I don't see any reason that we couldn't use multiple languages for the final solution if that is the most reaonable approach the solving the problem
- Jul 16 19:32:22 <TheDuceCat> Language is not important right now.
- Jul 16 19:32:34 * Accipiter (~Accipiter@96.18.31.36) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:32:35 <miyako> +1 TheDuceCat
- Jul 16 19:32:37 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat the problem is definitely much more important than the language
- Jul 16 19:32:44 <Rubicks> +1 TheDuceCat
- Jul 16 19:32:45 <intothev01d> what is the problem?
- Jul 16 19:32:49 <TheDuceCat> none yet
- Jul 16 19:32:50 <Fast_Absorbing> Okay, so lets pick a problem
- Jul 16 19:32:54 <intothev01d> lol
- Jul 16 19:32:56 <miyako> we should be moving on to that in the main meeting soon
- Jul 16 19:33:00 <TheDuceCat> let's wait for main chat to be over
- Jul 16 19:33:04 <TheDuceCat> i can't focus on two at once
- Jul 16 19:33:13 <Rubicks> Haha true, I'm back and forth and back and forth
- Jul 16 19:35:55 <neTTos> Yeah does anyone have ideas for projects?
- Jul 16 19:36:12 <neTTos> Not languages
- Jul 16 19:36:14 <TheDuceCat> not atm
- Jul 16 19:36:14 * suck_my_username (suck_my_us@216-58-78-29.cpe.distributel.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:36:17 <miyako> I have a couple of vauge ideas to bring up
- Jul 16 19:36:25 <miyako> but they'll need fleshing out if we go with any of them
- Jul 16 19:36:25 <suck_my_username> hey guys
- Jul 16 19:36:31 <SlimTim10> miyako, please bring them up
- Jul 16 19:36:40 <SlimTim10> this is a meeting, so ideas are welcome
- Jul 16 19:36:43 <gabe1118> i was thinking an irc client
- Jul 16 19:37:15 <suck_my_username> IDEA: A torrent client that directly searches TPB
- Jul 16 19:37:16 <Babelius> I'll bring it up here again: a web server
- Jul 16 19:37:31 <miyako> SlimTim10: I'm having trouble keeping track of both chats is why I'm focusing on trying to keep everything in one meeting, but so we can start thinking about it:
- Jul 16 19:37:53 <BrotherGA2> suck_my_username: that will be difficult for those of us where it's blocked (like me)
- Jul 16 19:37:58 <thearrowflies> i made something that scrapes tpb's rss at mightngiht and download the file
- Jul 16 19:37:59 <suck_my_username> UK?
- Jul 16 19:38:12 <BrotherGA2> Italy
- Jul 16 19:38:17 <miyako> an application that lets people upload photos with geotagging and generates composite images of areas based on the uploaded photos
- Jul 16 19:38:23 <suck_my_username> thearrowflies: cool
- Jul 16 19:38:26 <G14> yeah this discussion is supposed to come after main one splits off - can we hold off here so people dont get left out
- Jul 16 19:38:35 <suck_my_username> thearrowflies: u already got some experience with this then :D
- Jul 16 19:38:38 <timg> miyako: sounds pretty cool.. and complex
- Jul 16 19:38:42 <suck_my_username> BrotherGA2: suck bro
- Jul 16 19:38:49 <suck_my_username> BrotherGA2: that sucks bro*
- Jul 16 19:38:49 <BrotherGA2> +1 G14
- Jul 16 19:39:02 <timg> G14: i believe main one has or is in the middle of splitting off
- Jul 16 19:39:10 <miyako> an application to do image enhancement
- Jul 16 19:39:11 <thearrowflies> guys
- Jul 16 19:39:15 <miyako> a distributed raytracer
- Jul 16 19:39:15 <thearrowflies> lets move to the other chat
- Jul 16 19:39:23 <miyako> I think an IRC client is a reasonable project
- Jul 16 19:39:23 <suck_my_username> which one?
- Jul 16 19:39:25 <BrotherGA2> suck_my_username: aye, there are good proxies, but it's still a bit of a hassle sometimes
- Jul 16 19:39:25 <G14> timg: we are barely moving on to the desktop part in the main ones - still hasnt split off
- Jul 16 19:39:26 <thearrowflies> lets talk there first, then here about specifics
- Jul 16 19:39:29 <thearrowflies> collab
- Jul 16 19:39:32 <tboat> could someone from here redirect what you have been talking about to the main chat please
- Jul 16 19:39:35 * nitrosage (~Ismail@24-52-217-40.cable.teksavvy.com) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:39:46 <miyako> okay guys, let's move this to the main chat
- Jul 16 19:40:26 <SlimTim10> who likes the idea of an IRC client as a project?
- Jul 16 19:40:31 <SlimTim10> +1 from me
- Jul 16 19:40:35 <TheDuceCat> let's stay patient here
- Jul 16 19:40:40 <TheDuceCat> wait until main discussion dies down
- Jul 16 19:40:44 <intothev01d> +1 +1
- Jul 16 19:40:53 <intothev01d> that is + 2
- Jul 16 19:41:03 <TheDuceCat> i thought it was fish
- Jul 16 19:41:07 <TheDuceCat> 2 + 2 is fish
- Jul 16 19:41:15 <TheDuceCat> :)
- Jul 16 19:41:50 <tboat> red fish blue fish?
- Jul 16 19:41:56 <miyako> We also can look at what type of problem we want to solve: Make something that fills a need; Make something with a focus on low level programming; Make something to focus on CS concepts
- Jul 16 19:41:56 <TheDuceCat> sure!
- Jul 16 19:44:07 <FRodrigues> in my first year of college in only learned low lvl languages (except prolog) :S
- Jul 16 19:44:17 <FRodrigues> I*
- Jul 16 19:45:00 <gabe1118> right now my trial for xchat and mirc have expired so i need an irc client
- Jul 16 19:45:11 <Marshall_H> ychat
- Jul 16 19:45:17 <Marshall_H> for windows
- Jul 16 19:45:23 <tboat> xhcat is free man
- Jul 16 19:45:29 <Marshall_H> n
- Jul 16 19:45:30 <Marshall_H> no
- Jul 16 19:45:33 <Marshall_H> costs money for windows
- Jul 16 19:45:35 <thearrowflies> no
- Jul 16 19:45:37 <thearrowflies> its free
- Jul 16 19:45:39 <Marshall_H> no
- Jul 16 19:45:41 <Marshall_H> its not
- Jul 16 19:45:42 <thearrowflies> get xchat-wdk
- Jul 16 19:45:42 <TheDuceCat> i have it it's free
- Jul 16 19:45:43 <thearrowflies> yes
- Jul 16 19:45:44 <thearrowflies> it is
- Jul 16 19:45:51 <tboat> xchat.org
- Jul 16 19:46:01 <Marshall_H> what the fuck
- Jul 16 19:46:07 <Marshall_H> did they make it free for windows?
- Jul 16 19:46:10 <Marshall_H> last time i checked it cost monye
- Jul 16 19:46:26 <Marshall_H> oh
- Jul 16 19:46:26 <Marshall_H> no
- Jul 16 19:46:27 <Marshall_H> http://xchat.org/windows/
- Jul 16 19:46:28 <Marshall_H> it costs money
- Jul 16 19:46:29 <ArrowBot> Title: XChat for Windows (at xchat.org)
- Jul 16 19:46:30 <Marshall_H> I was right
- Jul 16 19:46:32 <thearrowflies> no.
- Jul 16 19:46:34 <thearrowflies> because
- Jul 16 19:46:42 <thearrowflies> the official xchat ported to windows costs money
- Jul 16 19:46:43 <thearrowflies> but
- Jul 16 19:46:50 <thearrowflies> there are many unofficial builds
- Jul 16 19:46:58 <thearrowflies> that work just as good, or better
- Jul 16 19:46:59 <thearrowflies> that are free
- Jul 16 19:47:00 <Marshall_H> like ychat
- Jul 16 19:47:08 <thearrowflies> ychat is good
- Jul 16 19:47:14 <Marshall_H> yeah I said that
- Jul 16 19:49:24 <Rubicks> xchat is free?
- Jul 16 19:49:26 <Rubicks> yes
- Jul 16 19:49:47 * Accipiter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- Jul 16 19:49:48 <Marshall_H> xchat for windows costs money; alternative is ychat; xchat for linux is free
- Jul 16 19:50:13 <Filter_> hexchat
- Jul 16 19:50:20 <Marshall_H> essentially all the same
- Jul 16 19:50:23 <Filter_> is the succesor to xchat 2
- Jul 16 19:50:26 <Filter_> i recommend it
- Jul 16 19:50:38 <Filter_> its open source
- Jul 16 19:51:03 <thearrowflies> i use xchat-wdk. the dev of hexchat hosted it on the same site
- Jul 16 19:51:06 <thearrowflies> no idea what happened to it
- Jul 16 19:51:22 <thearrowflies> .load Poll
- Jul 16 19:51:22 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
- Jul 16 19:58:25 <TheDuceCat> now i can focus
- Jul 16 19:58:30 <tboat> .load Poll
- Jul 16 19:58:30 <ArrowBot> tboat: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
- Jul 16 19:58:37 <thearrowflies> i tried loading it
- Jul 16 19:58:40 <thearrowflies> im getting an error
- Jul 16 19:58:42 <tboat> thearrowflies, try loading in main channel
- Jul 16 19:58:44 <Rubicks> Jeez that was complicated :D
- Jul 16 19:58:50 <miyako> can we set the topic to a summary of the project?
- Jul 16 19:58:58 <TheDuceCat> how do you set topic
- Jul 16 19:59:01 * Justin___ (47e1eccb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.225.236.203) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 19:59:03 <TheDuceCat> are we op miyako?
- Jul 16 19:59:07 <thearrowflies> \/topic test
- Jul 16 19:59:08 <thearrowflies> oh
- Jul 16 19:59:09 <Rubicks> Why don't the leads get OP?
- Jul 16 19:59:10 <thearrowflies> let me do that
- Jul 16 19:59:11 <miyako> someone with OP will need to set it
- Jul 16 19:59:24 * thearrowflies gives channel operator status to TheDuceCat
- Jul 16 19:59:31 * thearrowflies gives channel operator status to miyako
- Jul 16 19:59:40 * TheDuceCat has changed the topic to: test
- Jul 16 19:59:45 <TheDuceCat> :D
- Jul 16 20:00:19 <TheDuceCat> miyako set it
- Jul 16 20:00:23 * miyako has changed the topic to: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability) - Discuss implementation language(s) and other design decisions
- Jul 16 20:00:41 <TheDuceCat> we can make a game later to demo the map editor
- Jul 16 20:00:48 <thearrowflies> .admin capabilities add TheDuceCat auto-op
- Jul 16 20:00:48 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: The "Admin" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "capabilities" in it. Try "list Admin" to see the commands in the "Admin" plugin.
- Jul 16 20:01:09 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat auto-op
- Jul 16 20:01:10 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: I can't find TheDuceCat in my user database. If you didn't give a user name, then I might not know what your user is, and you'll need to identify before this command might work.
- Jul 16 20:01:10 <Rubicks> I would like to steer clear of memory managed languages, so no C++ personally. THat is a lot to take in for a newbie
- Jul 16 20:01:11 <miyako> yeah, I'd like to have the ability to just print off maps so they can also be used for tabletop games
- Jul 16 20:01:26 <TheDuceCat> QT is great
- Jul 16 20:01:37 <Rubicks> i'd prefer something with a garbage collector or something akin to it
- Jul 16 20:01:38 <TheDuceCat> even though it's c++ it has a great library to make things much easier
- Jul 16 20:01:44 <TheDuceCat> okay
- Jul 16 20:01:47 <Rubicks> idk
- Jul 16 20:01:50 <TheDuceCat> C# with mono is a possibility
- Jul 16 20:01:52 <Rubicks> that's jsut me, we can discuss it
- Jul 16 20:01:54 <miyako> actually, I think first maybe we should talk about target platforms. Do we want to shoot for Win/OSX/Linux ?
- Jul 16 20:02:02 <TheDuceCat> cross plat
- Jul 16 20:02:03 <Rubicks> definitely at least Win
- Jul 16 20:02:04 <thearrowflies> TheDuceCat: miyako register with my bot. pm it and do user register name pass
- Jul 16 20:02:08 <Rubicks> but probably cross platformn
- Jul 16 20:02:30 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: Yeah, we could use mono to use C#, a powerful language
- Jul 16 20:02:52 <TheDuceCat> i'm not so sure about mono though
- Jul 16 20:02:54 <Rubicks> the web group is using python, so idk if we want to steer clear of it, or use it because of that
- Jul 16 20:02:59 <Filter_> What exactly is a tile-based map editor and who can it help
- Jul 16 20:03:06 <TheDuceCat> python is nice but for a big project idk
- Jul 16 20:03:10 <BrotherGA2> Pref cross plat, but worst case scenario we should do linux, since anyone can VM that.
- Jul 16 20:03:10 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat auto-op
- Jul 16 20:03:10 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
- Jul 16 20:03:13 <TheDuceCat> http://tiled.org
- Jul 16 20:03:13 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add TheDuceCat op
- Jul 16 20:03:13 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
- Jul 16 20:03:20 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add miyako op
- Jul 16 20:03:20 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
- Jul 16 20:03:21 <TheDuceCat> wait
- Jul 16 20:03:24 <TheDuceCat> wrong link :(
- Jul 16 20:03:25 <thearrowflies> .admin capability add miyako auto-op
- Jul 16 20:03:26 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: The operation succeeded.
- Jul 16 20:03:28 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat I agree, just trying to make a smooth transition once the web project is finished, so we can mentor the newer programmers
- Jul 16 20:03:33 <TheDuceCat> http://www.mapeditor.org/
- Jul 16 20:03:33 <miyako> Filter_: that's a great question :) check out TheDuceCat's link, the use case would be for people who want to make maps either for games they make or for table top gaming
- Jul 16 20:03:34 <ArrowBot> Title: Tiled Map Editor (at www.mapeditor.org)
- Jul 16 20:03:39 <neTTos> Java :O
- Jul 16 20:03:51 <TheDuceCat> I've used Java
- Jul 16 20:03:57 <TheDuceCat> it's ok
- Jul 16 20:04:00 <TheDuceCat> tiled uses QT
- Jul 16 20:04:05 <Rubicks> Java has swing, which is a really simple and easy to learn GUI, although it's kind of a mess
- Jul 16 20:04:06 <FRodrigues> java is very cross platform
- Jul 16 20:04:12 <TheDuceCat> swing is annoying
- Jul 16 20:04:15 <TheDuceCat> easy but annoying
- Jul 16 20:04:20 <Rubicks> agreed
- Jul 16 20:04:29 <neTTos> What were the languages people wanted to learn?
- Jul 16 20:04:34 <TheDuceCat> python
- Jul 16 20:04:37 <TheDuceCat> i think won
- Jul 16 20:04:44 <Filter_> Oh i see i see, this project sounds really good. I'm excited
- Jul 16 20:04:48 <FRodrigues> second?
- Jul 16 20:04:50 <Rubicks> I'm just trying to help out the newer people more than use something I jsut want to use because I like it :D
- Jul 16 20:05:32 <TheDuceCat> Tell me if I'm going too far here, but what about an entire suite of game dev tools. I want get some opinions on this.
- Jul 16 20:05:34 <miyako> I'll just throw this out there as a general idea: The terrain management, image generation, map saving, etc. code can be done in C or C++; GUI code could be done using Python + PyGTK as a default GUI, plus C# or Objective C GUIs if we want something more native for Windows and OS X
- Jul 16 20:05:39 <suck_my_username> anybody use wxwidgets before? its cross-platform library to make UIs
- Jul 16 20:06:00 <Filter_> +1 miyako
- Jul 16 20:06:01 * abel (~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 20:06:10 <suck_my_username> http://www.wxwidgets.org/
- Jul 16 20:06:11 <neTTos> A backend library that we can layer GUI's on top of
- Jul 16 20:06:11 <Filter_> but i vote C++ > C
- Jul 16 20:06:11 <ArrowBot> Title: wxWidgets (at www.wxwidgets.org)
- Jul 16 20:06:11 <TheDuceCat> what if we do a lightweight engine with the map editor with some other tools
- Jul 16 20:06:13 <TheDuceCat> is that too much
- Jul 16 20:06:14 <BrotherGA2> +1 miyako
- Jul 16 20:06:16 <Rubicks> miyako: I'm down, but I just hope C++ isn't too much for the majority of the people here
- Jul 16 20:06:24 <suck_my_username> ive worked with it before its really good
- Jul 16 20:06:30 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I would LOVE to do that, but we can start small if we want and build up
- Jul 16 20:06:33 <TheDuceCat> QT is great
- Jul 16 20:06:40 <TheDuceCat> you're right Rubricks
- Jul 16 20:06:46 <TheDuceCat> i've used QT before
- Jul 16 20:06:47 <thearrowflies> That sounds good duce
- Jul 16 20:06:53 <miyako> Rubicks: I think that there is plenty of frontend code to do with Python and C#, and the C or C++ code could be saved for the people who specifically want to learn those languages
- Jul 16 20:06:55 <suck_my_username> QT is good
- Jul 16 20:06:56 <FRodrigues> +1 miyako but couldn't we donne in java?
- Jul 16 20:06:56 <suck_my_username> too
- Jul 16 20:06:59 <TheDuceCat> it's cross plat and stable and easy
- Jul 16 20:07:01 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I'll check out QT
- Jul 16 20:07:05 <Rubicks> miyako: sounds good ::D
- Jul 16 20:07:12 <suck_my_username> both QT and wxWidgets make a native GUI
- Jul 16 20:07:22 <TheDuceCat> we could have plugins with python
- Jul 16 20:07:26 <FRodrigues> qt isn't c++?
- Jul 16 20:07:30 <suck_my_username> it is
- Jul 16 20:07:30 <thearrowflies> it is
- Jul 16 20:07:34 <TheDuceCat> and make the core functionality plugins to have the python devs happy
- Jul 16 20:07:35 <suck_my_username> lol beat u
- Jul 16 20:07:47 <TheDuceCat> qt is c++ that play snice
- Jul 16 20:07:48 <miyako> suck_my_username: Yeah, although I think we have the C++ covered by the backend code, so we might want to do the frontends in more managed languages for people who don't want to delve into C++
- Jul 16 20:07:50 <TheDuceCat> plays nice*
- Jul 16 20:07:50 <suck_my_username> so is the c++ code gonna be encapsulated in libraries?
- Jul 16 20:07:52 <Rubicks> I think we also need to figure out a plan for the coding, a documentation plan
- Jul 16 20:07:59 <Rubicks> so that the code is readible and reusable
- Jul 16 20:08:12 <TheDuceCat> standard code formatting
- Jul 16 20:08:24 <thearrowflies> We could follow the chrome formatting rules
- Jul 16 20:08:25 <thearrowflies> ?
- Jul 16 20:08:32 <FRodrigues> c++ isn't a little too much
- Jul 16 20:08:33 <TheDuceCat> not familiar with them
- Jul 16 20:08:35 <BrotherGA2> have we figured out how we will be using github?
- Jul 16 20:08:40 <TheDuceCat> probably github
- Jul 16 20:09:03 <thearrowflies> Im trying to add a script to this bot to work with github
- Jul 16 20:09:06 <miyako> I see lots of valid things to discuss, let's make a list real quick here then address them one-by-one
- Jul 16 20:09:10 <Filter_> ok
- Jul 16 20:09:12 <thearrowflies> im just waiting on the project to be made
- Jul 16 20:09:22 <TheDuceCat> i say we use trello for task management
- Jul 16 20:09:26 <miyako> 1: how are we going to manage version control / github
- Jul 16 20:09:29 <Rubicks> I've recently reformatted, etc, I need to set up my git directories and stuf no
- Jul 16 20:09:30 <TheDuceCat> complentary to github
- Jul 16 20:09:30 <miyako> 2: Coding standards?
- Jul 16 20:09:39 <miyako> 3: final decision on languages
- Jul 16 20:09:58 <miyako> 4: Documentation, bug tracking, etc.
- Jul 16 20:10:04 <TheDuceCat> the way we did it in the minecraft mod team was we all fork and do pull requests
- Jul 16 20:10:25 <miyako> *** Let's talk about how to manage version control ***
- Jul 16 20:10:58 <Rubicks> I've used both SVN and Git, SVN was easier to understand, with programs like tortoiseSVN, but I definitely like Git better since it has the web interface
- Jul 16 20:11:14 * bimo (54c2cb93@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.194.203.147) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 20:11:14 <BrotherGA2> question: I'm about halfway through CS101 on udacity, and have been going through the github tutorial today. Should I stick to the web project or will I be able to contribute to this project as well with my skill level?
- Jul 16 20:11:19 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I think that is a reasonable approach. What does everyone thing of having TheDuceCat and/or myself manage the "official" repo, and have us manage pull requests?
- Jul 16 20:11:30 <suck_my_username> plus, git is starting to become the popular one now
- Jul 16 20:11:40 <TheDuceCat> i'm fine with that
- Jul 16 20:11:41 <thearrowflies> thats fine miyako
- Jul 16 20:11:54 <Rubicks> miyako: that might be a lot of work for you two but that's fine :D
- Jul 16 20:11:58 <miyako> BrotherGA2: you're welcome to participate here, but you might find it easier to start with the web project then come join us after that is complete so you have a full project under your belt :)
- Jul 16 20:12:08 <TheDuceCat> with great power comes great responsibility /spiderman
- Jul 16 20:12:33 * baffler has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
- Jul 16 20:12:36 <miyako> I imagine that things will evolve as we move forward; I think the kernel model is a good one
- Jul 16 20:12:59 <BrotherGA2> miyako: Well, I'll stick around and see if I can keep up. If I feel like it's a bit much or I'm hurting the team I'll stick to just the web project. I'm eager to learn :)
- Jul 16 20:13:10 <miyako> Linus manages final pull requests from his lieutenants, who manage pull requests for their sections of the code
- Jul 16 20:13:20 <miyako> and below that it's turtles all the way down
- Jul 16 20:13:36 <miyako> or penguins
- Jul 16 20:13:40 <Rubicks> haha
- Jul 16 20:13:40 <neTTos> lol
- Jul 16 20:14:00 <bimo> Is there already a project ?
- Jul 16 20:14:14 <thearrowflies> There is an idea
- Jul 16 20:14:34 <bimo> Got it written somewhere ?
- Jul 16 20:14:37 <bimo> or can you speed me up ?
- Jul 16 20:14:42 <miyako> bimo: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability)
- Jul 16 20:15:19 <bimo> Hmm gotta search that up :)
- Jul 16 20:15:31 <TheDuceCat> Tiled map editor is a great model
- Jul 16 20:15:36 <Rubicks> I'm excited, this could definitely be a cool project
- Jul 16 20:15:39 <miyako> bimo: http://www.mapeditor.org/ that project is similar
- Jul 16 20:15:40 <bimo> i see
- Jul 16 20:15:41 <ArrowBot> Title: Tiled Map Editor (at www.mapeditor.org)
- Jul 16 20:15:41 <TheDuceCat> but i think we can improve on it if we work hard
- Jul 16 20:15:42 <Fast_Absorbing> Anyway, I need to get going
- Jul 16 20:15:49 <TheDuceCat> see you later fast
- Jul 16 20:15:53 <thearrowflies> cya
- Jul 16 20:15:53 <miyako> Fast_Absorbing: take care
- Jul 16 20:16:01 <Rubicks> Fast_Absorbing: See ya
- Jul 16 20:16:02 <Fast_Absorbing> Someone should post some kind of write-up tomorrow maybe on the subreddit, or logs
- Jul 16 20:16:14 <Fast_Absorbing> Thanks guys, see you
- Jul 16 20:16:15 <miyako> I'll post a summary after the meetings tonight
- Jul 16 20:16:22 <TheDuceCat> what do you guys think of https://trello.com/ for project management
- Jul 16 20:16:23 <ArrowBot> Title: Trello (at trello.com)
- Jul 16 20:16:24 * Fast_Absorbing (~chatzilla@cpc2-cmbg12-0-0-cust263.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) has left #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 20:16:30 <neTTos> Trello is great
- Jul 16 20:16:37 <TheDuceCat> it helps us organize our thoughts/ideas/bugs/features/tasks
- Jul 16 20:16:40 <neTTos> I've used it for a few projects now
- Jul 16 20:16:44 <TheDuceCat> same
- Jul 16 20:16:46 <bimo> What language are we gonne use ?
- Jul 16 20:16:49 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat: I've never used it, looks awesome though!
- Jul 16 20:16:53 <miyako> I've never used it, but I'm open
- Jul 16 20:16:57 <TheDuceCat> QT is my choice
- Jul 16 20:17:04 <TheDuceCat> cross platform low level and nice IDE
- Jul 16 20:17:14 <miyako> we shouldn't invest too much into it IMHO since we want to start using the web project once it becomes usable
- Jul 16 20:17:25 * Rosur (Rosur@oceanware.plus.com) has left #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 20:17:36 <Rubicks> QT for low level stuff, Python C# for some frontend stuff?
- Jul 16 20:17:44 <thearrowflies> signed up on trello
- Jul 16 20:17:45 <thearrowflies> what now?
- Jul 16 20:17:52 <TheDuceCat> i will make the board in a bit
- Jul 16 20:17:59 <TheDuceCat> +1 Rubricks
- Jul 16 20:18:02 <miyako> Personally I'm in favor of C99 with glib for the backend
- Jul 16 20:18:12 <TheDuceCat> never heard of either :(
- Jul 16 20:18:15 <miyako> but I don't expect to win that argument
- Jul 16 20:18:20 <thearrowflies> lol
- Jul 16 20:18:29 <Rubicks> miyako: Good luck convincing us :D
- Jul 16 20:18:36 <miyako> C99 is just the newer C standard, if we used it though we'd have to use GCC even on windows since VS doesn't support it
- Jul 16 20:18:39 <TheDuceCat> maybe lua/python for addons
- Jul 16 20:19:13 <thearrowflies> We should sell the finished product to non redditors
- Jul 16 20:19:20 <TheDuceCat> Open source
- Jul 16 20:19:25 <TheDuceCat> is the only way
- Jul 16 20:19:27 <neTTos> Open Source!
- Jul 16 20:19:30 <bimo> Indeed
- Jul 16 20:19:35 <miyako> That's a good point, we should discuss licensing
- Jul 16 20:19:35 <FRodrigues> FOSS!
- Jul 16 20:19:37 <TheDuceCat> while money would be great
- Jul 16 20:19:43 <bimo> Donation
- Jul 16 20:19:46 <TheDuceCat> open source gives back to the community
- Jul 16 20:19:50 <bimo> To get us going would help better :)
- Jul 16 20:19:52 <thearrowflies> yeah
- Jul 16 20:19:56 <miyako> I'm in favor of GPL3, but open to LGPL or BSD licenses
- Jul 16 20:20:01 <Rubicks> kickstarter? haha ;P
- Jul 16 20:20:07 <TheDuceCat> i'm not familiar with licenses
- Jul 16 20:20:08 <FRodrigues> LOL
- Jul 16 20:20:15 <miyako> I think we should not accept donations right now because then someone has to manage money
- Jul 16 20:20:20 <TheDuceCat> +1
- Jul 16 20:20:24 <Rubicks> + miyako
- Jul 16 20:20:27 <BrotherGA2> +1 miyako
- Jul 16 20:20:28 <Rubicks> +1*
- Jul 16 20:20:30 <FRodrigues> +1
- Jul 16 20:20:34 <BrotherGA2> I say open source
- Jul 16 20:20:34 <TheDuceCat> miyako mind if i make a trello for us?
- Jul 16 20:20:38 <bimo> +1 but accept donations when we have a program :)
- Jul 16 20:20:39 <TheDuceCat> or would you rather me hold off
- Jul 16 20:20:39 <miyako> TheDuceCat: go for it :)
- Jul 16 20:20:43 <TheDuceCat> alright thanks
- Jul 16 20:20:58 <bimo> But i think it's kinda important to have a president
- Jul 16 20:21:01 <FRodrigues> i could manage the money (hawai here I go :P)
- Jul 16 20:21:06 <thearrowflies> lol
- Jul 16 20:21:12 <bimo> like someone who is more specialized into programming
- Jul 16 20:21:14 <miyako> if the code is released (L)GPL or BSD you can sell it all you want if you comply with the license :)
- Jul 16 20:21:40 <neTTos> Let's write a program before we get ahead of ourselves
- Jul 16 20:21:50 <Rubicks> +1 nettos
- Jul 16 20:21:59 <Rubicks> it's too easy to look months ahead
- Jul 16 20:22:02 <TheDuceCat> alright i made an organization
- Jul 16 20:22:04 <miyako> neTTos: I generally agree, but I do think settling on a license is somewhat important
- Jul 16 20:22:04 <neTTos> It is
- Jul 16 20:22:05 <FRodrigues> miyako: I prefer to compile myself thanks!
- Jul 16 20:22:12 <TheDuceCat> i have to invite people by email so how are we going to do this
- Jul 16 20:22:22 <miyako> All in favor of GPL3 with no contributor agreement (everyone retains copyright of the code they submit) +1
- Jul 16 20:22:27 <thearrowflies> pm the emails
- Jul 16 20:22:34 <Rubicks> +1 miyako
- Jul 16 20:22:37 <TheDuceCat> miyako +1
- Jul 16 20:22:44 <thearrowflies> i dont know anything about licenses so +1
- Jul 16 20:22:48 <TheDuceCat> oh god pm flood incoming
- Jul 16 20:23:01 <TheDuceCat> list of emails or would you guys rather not do that
- Jul 16 20:23:03 <FRodrigues> -1
- Jul 16 20:23:06 <bimo> 0 | 1 = x ?
- Jul 16 20:23:10 <TheDuceCat> ???
- Jul 16 20:23:13 <bimo> what is X
- Jul 16 20:23:13 <TheDuceCat> PROFIT
- Jul 16 20:23:47 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I'm only opposed to it since this will be posted on reddit for bots to crawl
- Jul 16 20:24:03 <thearrowflies> trello has an api? we should write a desktop verion of it
- Jul 16 20:24:09 <thearrowflies> if there isnt one already
- Jul 16 20:24:23 <TheDuceCat> hmm
- Jul 16 20:24:34 <TheDuceCat> that was made mostly for mobile OSs but it could work
- Jul 16 20:24:39 <thearrowflies> ohh
- Jul 16 20:24:53 <TheDuceCat> alright pm me your emails
- Jul 16 20:24:57 <TheDuceCat> oh god here we go
- Jul 16 20:25:02 <miyako> So, my short argument for C over C++: C is a smaller language, easier for newcommers to learn; it has less pitfalls than C++ due to feature interaction, and if we are going to write the core component as a library then it is easier to write bindings for that library if it's done in C
- Jul 16 20:25:42 <TheDuceCat> i guess but how are we going to make it cross platform
- Jul 16 20:25:45 <Rubicks> miyako: I'm down for whatever, I'm super rusty with C but in the long run, I'm here for the collaboration and I'd like to think I can pick up a language fairly quickly
- Jul 16 20:25:47 <TheDuceCat> isn't it really hard to do without a lib
- Jul 16 20:26:01 <TheDuceCat> i like how QT can handle all platforms for us
- Jul 16 20:26:13 <TheDuceCat> so we don't get stuck in the mud in the beginning making sure everything works for all platforms
- Jul 16 20:26:15 <Rubicks> QT does look pretty nifty
- Jul 16 20:26:17 <thearrowflies> yeah
- Jul 16 20:26:40 <miyako> TheDuceCat: C libraries will do that as well, and most of the backend code should not be very platform dependent anyway
- Jul 16 20:27:17 <miyako> also, C++ + Qt may be even more difficult for people learning C++, since it's not really standard C++ due to the requirement of using qmake and it's preprocessor to deal with signals/slots
- Jul 16 20:27:35 <TheDuceCat> i picked up QT quite easily
- Jul 16 20:27:45 <FRodrigues> but c++ with oop would be much more easy to read and maintain
- Jul 16 20:27:48 <Rubicks> TheDuceCat but you seem like an experienced programmer?
- Jul 16 20:28:12 <Rubicks> I'm just worried about keeping the newer programmers afloat
- Jul 16 20:28:14 <TheDuceCat> i don't know i just pick up things quickly
- Jul 16 20:28:26 <Filter_> if we dont need OOP i say we use C
- Jul 16 20:28:29 <Rubicks> I haven't used either, so I don't know what the ebst would be
- Jul 16 20:28:39 <Rubicks> I've used C and C++, but not the specifics
- Jul 16 20:28:40 <Filter_> C is easy for anyone who is worried about that
- Jul 16 20:28:48 <Rubicks> not QT and not glib
- Jul 16 20:29:03 <FRodrigues> this is too much large scale to do without oop, I think
- Jul 16 20:29:06 <TheDuceCat> some of us here haven't touched anything low level so a jump to c might be worse than c++
- Jul 16 20:29:07 <thearrowflies> cant we use both c and c++/qt?
- Jul 16 20:29:11 <TheDuceCat> i don't know that is just what i'm thinking
- Jul 16 20:29:16 <calzone21> alright guys, i got to go. i'll check the subreddit for updates!
- Jul 16 20:29:22 <Filter_> lates
- Jul 16 20:29:24 <TheDuceCat> *** IF YOU HAVEN'T PLEASE PM ME YOUR EMAILS ***
- Jul 16 20:29:26 * calzone21 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
- Jul 16 20:29:28 <Rubicks> oh crap
- Jul 16 20:30:05 <FRodrigues> fuuuu i forgot how to pm :S
- Jul 16 20:30:16 <miyako> I don't think that OOP is necessary for the backend piece really
- Jul 16 20:30:43 <Filter_> pm = /msg name [message]
- Jul 16 20:31:04 <Rubicks> I love OOP, but kk
- Jul 16 20:31:06 <TheDuceCat> i think QT will help some ease into GUI programming
- Jul 16 20:31:25 <Rubicks> anyway guys, I have to head out and finish this move
- Jul 16 20:31:34 <miyako> okay Rubicks, take care
- Jul 16 20:31:41 <Rubicks> Take care everybody
- Jul 16 20:31:50 <miyako> TheDuceCat: GLib is part of GTK+
- Jul 16 20:32:08 <miyako> (well, sort of, they were broken apart so that GLib could be used without the GUI components)
- Jul 16 20:32:11 * Rubicks has quit (Quit: Leaving)
- Jul 16 20:32:18 <neTTos> I gotta leave too, I'll check the subreddit for the next meeting
- Jul 16 20:32:21 <TheDuceCat> http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/GTK_vs_Qt
- Jul 16 20:32:22 <ArrowBot> Title: GTK vs Qt - WikiVS (at www.wikivs.com)
- Jul 16 20:32:27 <TheDuceCat> i've been reading this
- Jul 16 20:32:35 <tboat> ****Mods check in time, discuss with each other about a recap, info you want to share, and one of ya send me a PM soonish! Thanks!!! :) *****
- Jul 16 20:32:38 <thearrowflies> im for QT
- Jul 16 20:33:25 <miyako> I'm okay with C++, I'm not sure that Qt is necessary for the backend piece at all with C++ since we can use the STL and Boost
- Jul 16 20:33:44 <TheDuceCat> never used boost
- Jul 16 20:33:48 * neTTos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
- Jul 16 20:33:49 <TheDuceCat> heard of it a lot
- Jul 16 20:33:56 <thearrowflies> it has alot of useful things
- Jul 16 20:33:56 <TheDuceCat> how much overhead does that induce
- Jul 16 20:34:07 <thearrowflies> but takes a while to learn
- Jul 16 20:34:11 <thearrowflies> for me atleast
- Jul 16 20:34:16 <miyako> TheDuceCat: less than Qt probably, it's more like an extension of the STL
- Jul 16 20:34:48 <miyako> I suspect that we won't need much beyond the STL anyway honestly, aside from maybe OpenCV or something to manage the graphics stuff
- Jul 16 20:35:13 <TheDuceCat> both options are viable. tiled uses QT, used to use java/swing
- Jul 16 20:35:33 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I thought we were going with Python for the GUI piece?
- Jul 16 20:35:33 <thearrowflies> I wouldnt mind going to java :p
- Jul 16 20:35:52 <FRodrigues> I would love java :P
- Jul 16 20:35:56 <TheDuceCat> i didn't know
- Jul 16 20:35:58 <thearrowflies> Yeah
- Jul 16 20:36:02 <miyako> Maybe we could go pure C for the library piece, then a C++/Qt gui and a python GUI?
- Jul 16 20:36:04 <thearrowflies> if we were going to use python for gui
- Jul 16 20:36:12 <thearrowflies> yeah
- Jul 16 20:36:14 <thearrowflies> +1
- Jul 16 20:36:21 <TheDuceCat> lua for modules/plugins maybe?
- Jul 16 20:36:27 <TheDuceCat> or py idk
- Jul 16 20:36:44 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I quite like lua, but python may be better since it seems like they are going to use python for the web project
- Jul 16 20:36:51 <TheDuceCat> alright
- Jul 16 20:37:46 <bimo> What about javascript ?
- Jul 16 20:37:54 <thearrowflies> for a desktop app?
- Jul 16 20:38:03 <bimo> oh shit nope
- Jul 16 20:38:09 <FRodrigues> lol
- Jul 16 20:38:09 <bimo> was in the wrong channel
- Jul 16 20:38:14 <Filter_> :)
- Jul 16 20:38:29 <miyako> So, TheDuceCat brought up a good question, what will be in the backend exactly
- Jul 16 20:38:49 <thearrowflies> anything that would interact with the webserver/web ui
- Jul 16 20:38:53 <thearrowflies> im guessing
- Jul 16 20:39:02 <miyako> the general idea I had was this: The library/backend piece would be focused on keeping track of the map
- Jul 16 20:39:19 <Filter_> yea it needs to
- Jul 16 20:39:33 <miyako> so it would keep track of tile placement, terrain, etc. It would be able to generate a mesh or SVG drawing or something for the display side
- Jul 16 20:39:52 <Filter_> +1
- Jul 16 20:39:53 <miyako> and also be able to accept input in the form of some tile to place, where in the map to place it, and probably some parameters
- Jul 16 20:40:13 <TheDuceCat> can't we keep that with c++/qt to make it more streamlined
- Jul 16 20:40:16 <TheDuceCat> i'm not sure
- Jul 16 20:40:42 <Filter_> we should if possible use as few tools as possible
- Jul 16 20:41:13 <Filter_> but its not like vanilla C is a big deal
- Jul 16 20:41:17 <TheDuceCat> *** ANYONE WHO HAS NOT SENT ME THEIR EMAIL, PLEASE DO SO ***
- Jul 16 20:41:21 <Filter_> im ok with either way
- Jul 16 20:41:53 <miyako> architecturally speaking, the map management code should be separate from the interface code even if everything was done in C++
- Jul 16 20:42:16 <TheDuceCat> yeah seperate sort of like how MVC works
- Jul 16 20:42:23 <miyako> so I don't think that using vanilla C for the library is a particularly complecting decision, especially given the similarities of the languages
- Jul 16 20:43:25 <miyako> my experience has been that using vanilla C makes generating language bindings MUCH easier, so if we want to be able to have web/python/c++ frontends it might be a good way to go
- Jul 16 20:43:35 <miyako> but I understand the hesitation to use too many different languages
- Jul 16 20:43:44 <TheDuceCat> so lets break down stages from low to high
- Jul 16 20:44:25 <TheDuceCat> C for backend
- Jul 16 20:44:38 <TheDuceCat> C++/QT for GUI
- Jul 16 20:44:40 <TheDuceCat> python?
- Jul 16 20:44:46 <thearrowflies> plugins?
- Jul 16 20:44:52 <TheDuceCat> plugins with python
- Jul 16 20:44:56 <miyako> python to provide a web service for a javascript viewer of maps?
- Jul 16 20:45:03 <thearrowflies> +1
- Jul 16 20:45:35 <TheDuceCat> what language is the web team using
- Jul 16 20:45:37 <TheDuceCat> python?
- Jul 16 20:45:42 <thearrowflies> let me find out
- Jul 16 20:48:21 * DrosophiliaMaxim has quit (Quit: Page closed)
- Jul 16 20:48:31 <tboat> ****Update coming to #rProgCollab 5 minutes!****
- Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> <tboat> we will touch base tomorrow and have ppl work on creating the HTML/CSS for the page and people more experienced can work on the backend with Django and the DB
- Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> . will be some python too eventually
- Jul 16 20:48:58 <thearrowflies> <tboat> possibly some javascript
- Jul 16 20:48:59 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "will" is not a valid command.
- Jul 16 20:49:12 <thearrowflies> ArrowBot, screw you
- Jul 16 20:49:13 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "screw" is not a valid command.
- Jul 16 20:49:17 <miyako> lol
- Jul 16 20:49:25 <TheDuceCat> lol
- Jul 16 20:49:29 <miyako> so python if they are using django
- Jul 16 20:49:31 <Filter_> .end
- Jul 16 20:49:32 <ArrowBot> Filter_: Error: "end" is not a valid command.
- Jul 16 20:49:42 <TheDuceCat> alright
- Jul 16 20:49:43 <thearrowflies> ArrowBot, question?
- Jul 16 20:49:45 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Error: "question?" is not a valid command.
- Jul 16 20:49:47 <thearrowflies> ffs
- Jul 16 20:49:50 <Filter_> .name FailBot
- Jul 16 20:49:51 <ArrowBot> Filter_: Error: "name" is not a valid command.
- Jul 16 20:50:05 <thearrowflies> AI is broken
- Jul 16 20:50:23 <TheDuceCat> so what is python for besides plugins
- Jul 16 20:50:47 <miyako> TheDuceCat: I think a python web service using the plugin would be good, and could tie in to a javascript map viewer
- Jul 16 20:50:50 <thearrowflies> the map viewer? or is that a plugin?
- Jul 16 20:51:21 <miyako> *** Quick non-binding vote so that we can provide a recap *** We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service
- Jul 16 20:51:31 <thearrowflies> I
- Jul 16 20:51:40 <TheDuceCat> I
- Jul 16 20:51:49 <miyako> thearrowflies: I think the C++/GUI app will be used for creating maps, but maybe you can also view them through a google maps like thing via javascript on the web
- Jul 16 20:51:54 <miyako> aye
- Jul 16 20:51:54 <TheDuceCat> +1/Agree/Upboat/Like
- Jul 16 20:52:02 <miyako> okay, I'm going to let tboat know
- Jul 16 20:52:05 <Filter_> aye
- Jul 16 20:52:13 <FRodrigues> AYE AYE
- Jul 16 20:52:22 <thearrowflies> captain
- Jul 16 20:52:28 <thearrowflies> .list
- Jul 16 20:52:29 <ArrowBot> thearrowflies: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Dict, Games, Google, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Note, Owner, Plugin, Reply, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Time, User, Utilities, and Web
- Jul 16 20:52:58 <Filter_> i cant hearrrrrrr u
- Jul 16 20:53:17 <thearrowflies> are we all going to use the same ide or whatever? because sometimes things dont always work across ides
- Jul 16 20:53:20 <Filter_> .google spongebob
- Jul 16 20:53:21 <ArrowBot> Filter_: SpongeBob.com | SpongeBob SquarePants Episodes, Games ...: <http://spongebob.nick.com/>; SpongeBob Episodes, Videos, & Clips | SpongeBob.com: <http://spongebob.nick.com/videos/>; SpongeBob SquarePants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants>; SpongeBob SquarePants (TV Series 1999) - IMDb: (2 more messages)
- Jul 16 20:53:49 <miyako> thearrowflies: we will work on establishing coding conventions, and everyone will need to configure their IDE or editor to follow those
- Jul 16 20:53:54 <Filter_> yea
- Jul 16 20:54:00 <thearrowflies> ok
- Jul 16 20:54:03 <Filter_> i use vim so its ok
- Jul 16 20:54:18 <TheDuceCat> well we have to use QT for the gui part
- Jul 16 20:54:29 <FRodrigues> emacs is so much better :P
- Jul 16 20:54:30 * ArexBawrin (~chatzilla@97.103.19.131) has joined #rpcdesktop
- Jul 16 20:54:33 <Filter_> :p
- Jul 16 20:54:33 <FRodrigues> im kidding :P
- Jul 16 20:54:43 <Filter_> howd the pinky surgery go
- Jul 16 20:54:47 <thearrowflies> netbeans ftw!
- Jul 16 20:55:01 <bimo> Netbeans i know that one
- Jul 16 20:55:07 <bimo> used it for PHPP and java
- Jul 16 20:55:14 <TheDuceCat> i use eclipse and msvc
- Jul 16 20:55:29 <Filter_> im ok with using whatever will help us be productive
- Jul 16 20:55:35 <Filter_> as a group
- Jul 16 20:55:51 <ArexBawrin> im late to the party sorry guys, anybody mention QT?
- Jul 16 20:56:00 <Filter_> yes many times
- Jul 16 20:56:08 <ArexBawrin> haha excellent...
- Jul 16 20:56:10 <thearrowflies> a bunch of google wave pages where we can all program on the same file at the same time.
- Jul 16 20:56:14 <thearrowflies> +1 me
- Jul 16 20:56:37 <Filter_> *** Quick non-binding vote so that we can provide a recap *** We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service
- Jul 16 20:56:41 <Filter_> arex ^^^
- Jul 16 20:56:44 <Filter_> that was the last update
- Jul 16 20:56:57 <bimo> Oh man this thing goes fast i hears a lot of names i never heard off
- Jul 16 20:57:19 <Filter_> desktop stuff is go big or go home
- Jul 16 20:57:31 <TheDuceCat> +1
- Jul 16 20:57:34 * thearrowflies has changed the topic to: The Project Is: A Tile Based Map Editor (with Native GUIs and a very basic web UI capability) - We want to use C for the backend lib, C++/Qt for a GUI, and python for gui plugins/scripting and for providing a web service.
- Jul 16 20:57:41 <TheDuceCat> +1
- Jul 16 20:57:58 <bimo> hahha :D
- Jul 16 20:58:10 <bimo> Rivalry between deskptop and web
- Jul 16 20:58:14 <ArexBawrin> any algos we might implement in this?
- Jul 16 20:58:31 <ArexBawrin> cs algorithms*
- Jul 16 20:58:53 <Filter_> idk
- Jul 16 20:59:00 <Filter_> everything we are doing has been done before
- Jul 16 20:59:05 <TheDuceCat> what would've been cool was have the same problem that the desktop and web team had to make a program for and see which was better :D
- Jul 16 20:59:07 <miyako> ArexBawrin: I'm sure there will be several, but we'll need to look at that when we start establishing requirements
- Jul 16 20:59:19 <FRodrigues> the only thing im afraid is the complexity of c and c++ :/
- Jul 16 20:59:39 <Filter_> its not hard just looks hard if uve never curly braced before
- Jul 16 20:59:44 <ArexBawrin> FRodrigues: me too, but that's what the mentors are for
- Jul 16 20:59:46 <thearrowflies> lol
- Jul 16 20:59:59 <tboat> *****ATTENTION!!!! Update in #rProgCollab!!!!!!!!!
- Jul 16 21:00:23 <thearrowflies> Do you guys want to meet tomorrow?
- Jul 16 21:00:27 <thearrowflies> What time?
- Jul 16 21:00:46 <Filter_> I have a biochem exam so idk if I can
- Jul 16 21:00:53 <Filter_> ill let others decide on the time
- Jul 16 21:00:59 <FRodrigues> same time
- Jul 16 21:01:04 <miyako> I'm good with the same time tomorrow
- Jul 16 21:01:09 <TheDuceCat> same
- Jul 16 21:01:11 <ArexBawrin> same time is fine
- Jul 16 21:01:24 <FRodrigues> 7pm est 00:00 GMT
- Jul 16 21:01:51 <miyako> *** SUGGESTION FOR TOMORROWS MEETING ***
- Jul 16 21:01:52 <Justin___> sure, but I probably wont be able to make it until 7:30-7:45
- Jul 16 21:02:08 <tboat> all chats logged during official times
- Jul 16 21:02:41 <miyako> we need coding standards, standards of community conduct, and a more firm set of requirements. let's bring these ideas to the meeting tomorrow to be voted on
- Jul 16 21:03:03 <thearrowflies> ok
- Jul 16 21:03:15 <FRodrigues> just one question, the backend could be done in java? but we are not going to do because we want to work in c right?
- Jul 16 21:03:41 <TheDuceCat> backend java front end c++?
- Jul 16 21:03:45 <TheDuceCat> OH GOD RUN
- Jul 16 21:04:02 <FRodrigues> im starting with java
- Jul 16 21:04:03 <miyako> FRodrigues: it could theoretically be done in Java, but Java doesn't really accell at the type of code that I think we'll need to write for the backend
- Jul 16 21:04:03 <thearrowflies> -------end of log------nothing after this will be logged
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