rutherford, [09.12.19 12:41]
<Xades> Commercial users will be anon only, there is no way you want your competitors to be able to see all your payments and receivables.  Your suppliers would be able to figure out other suppliers and what you were paying them, etc. Anyone you pay will be able to browse the size of your wallet.  Public transactions are unsafe for anything other than a hobby business.

rutherford, [09.12.19 12:45]
<boestie:matrix.org> blind transactions and features or any reference to them need to be hidden from the marketplace dapp, for common users at least, so as a default

rutherford, [09.12.19 12:45]
<Xades> Public is unsafe period - pay your bar bill with a public wallet, the bartender knows how many coins you have and her boyfriend mugs you after you leave the bar.

rutherford, [09.12.19 12:45]
<boestie:matrix.org> i would like to see the dapp grow and mature into a marketplace for the common man

rutherford, [09.12.19 12:54]
<yasabi> I think a compromise would be for RingCT to become the default tx method, and you must opt-out to use blinded or public.

rutherford, [09.12.19 12:55]
<yasabi> It's a bit incongruous to present as a privacy coin but have the default method be totally public imo

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:08]
[In reply to rutherford]
Blind coins make the marketplace possible. They are required as CT has programmable output and RingCT doesn't. In other words, RingCT cannot be used in smart-contract in the traditional way. To remedy that situation, the outputs of a RingCT transaction are combined to the input of a CT transaction and then released once again as RingCT once the escrow completes.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:11]
The main issue with RingCT on by default is you need to have public coins coming out of the Proof-of-Stake algorithm. Otherwise, there is not the same degree of auditability. But while it is actually possible to audit the supply by checking the number of coins created at the inflation level, having RingCT by default transactions does not protect against other types of fraudulent coin creation abuses (i.e. creating coins out of thin air outside the inflationary model). That's the main reason why RingCT is not by default, as far as I know.

rutherford, [09.12.19 13:43]
<Xades> Blind coins could be limited to smart contracts only and not show up in the user interface directly.  I don't see how anon by default makes coin inflation bugs more likely.  The UI would look a lot better with only anon sending/receiving, and public limited to staking/staking rewards.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:48]
As I understand it (Kewde and Dasource most definitely have the right answer here), with RingCT by default you can only audit coins that have been created at the inflation level (as in...coins created when new blocks are staked). Because RingCT makes everything so private, you can't audit the supply otherwise. So if there was some unknown to this day exploit that would allow someone to create coins without having them generated at the inflation level, then there would be no tool to audit the supply properly, meaning we'd never really know coins are being created. With public coins, it's very easy to audit the chain in its entirety and not just at the inflation level.

It's a "theoretical" issue that Monero is also potentially subject to. Doesn't mean it would ever happen, but if it did it would most definitely lead to an infinite dumping of coins on the market...in other words, it would kill the coin (imo)

rutherford, [09.12.19 13:59]
<Xades> RingCT by default is just a gui change, there is no way that a gui change will affect your ability to audit the supply.  Users can already decide to just use ringCT on every transaction.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:59]
Oh, you meant RingCT by default in Particl Desktop. Thought you meant at the protocol level.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 14:00]
Could be interesting indeed and a good compromise 🤔

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:01]
<Xades> I'm suggesting that the gui only offer the ability to stake public coins, and receive public stake rewards.  When the users want to send/receive they only get the option of anon.

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:02]
<Xades> There could also be seperate locks for unlocking public staking and unlocking the anon wallet for sending.

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> isn't the supply inflation risk already present with ringct tho?  making it default won't change that risk

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> and code bugs can be found in any cryptocurrency, that seems a bad reason not to make a privacy coin as private as possible

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> when exploits are discovered there's generally a way to verify whether or not they've been leveraged, as monero was able to do a couple years back

rutherford, [09.12.19 13:43]
<Xades> Blind coins could be limited to smart contracts only and not show up in the user interface directly.  I don't see how anon by default makes coin inflation bugs more likely.  The UI would look a lot better with only anon sending/receiving, and public limited to staking/staking rewards.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:48]
As I understand it (Kewde and Dasource most definitely have the right answer here), with RingCT by default you can only audit coins that have been created at the inflation level (as in...coins created when new blocks are staked). Because RingCT makes everything so private, you can't audit the supply otherwise. So if there was some unknown to this day exploit that would allow someone to create coins without having them generated at the inflation level, then there would be no tool to audit the supply properly, meaning we'd never really know coins are being created. With public coins, it's very easy to audit the chain in its entirety and not just at the inflation level.

It's a "theoretical" issue that Monero is also potentially subject to. Doesn't mean it would ever happen, but if it did it would most definitely lead to an infinite dumping of coins on the market...in other words, it would kill the coin (imo)

rutherford, [09.12.19 13:59]
<Xades> RingCT by default is just a gui change, there is no way that a gui change will affect your ability to audit the supply.  Users can already decide to just use ringCT on every transaction.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 13:59]
Oh, you meant RingCT by default in Particl Desktop. Thought you meant at the protocol level.

Cryptoguard, [09.12.19 14:00]
Could be interesting indeed and a good compromise 🤔

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:01]
<Xades> I'm suggesting that the gui only offer the ability to stake public coins, and receive public stake rewards.  When the users want to send/receive they only get the option of anon.

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:02]
<Xades> There could also be seperate locks for unlocking public staking and unlocking the anon wallet for sending.

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> isn't the supply inflation risk already present with ringct tho?  making it default won't change that risk

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> and code bugs can be found in any cryptocurrency, that seems a bad reason not to make a privacy coin as private as possible

rutherford, [09.12.19 14:03]
<yasabi> when exploits are discovered there's generally a way to verify whether or not they've been leveraged, as monero was able to do a couple years back