The 'excellence' of #debates

12:54:00 PM→ Monfd has joined
12:54:00 PMⓘ GOP undermines House Intelligence Committee | US government open | Mueller probe extends to NRA | Cohen subpeoned | Stone pleads not guilty
12:54:00 PMDALnetThis channel is protected, you may need to wait 40 seconds before being able to talk!
12:54:00 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v Monfd
12:54:35 PM@xsnlxyeah, something like $5B or something horrendous
12:54:57 PM@xsnlxand then Foxxconn was going to import thousands of workers from China to work in WI
12:55:44 PM← HRPufnstuf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:57:38 PM+BitterDrinkTrump wants to kill the estate tax.  His dummy supporters think it's a good idea
12:57:49 PM→ Forest` has joined
12:57:49 PMⓘ ChanServ set mode +o Forest`
12:57:50 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v Forest`
12:58:36 PM+BitterDrinkyeah why i said dummy
12:58:49 PM+BitterDrink10 million  a year
12:58:50 PM+BitterDrinklol
12:59:11 PM+BitterDrinkand they just raised it to that
12:59:15 PM+BitterDrinkused to be 5 million
12:59:18 PM+MonfdBitterDrink: The supporters don't want that.
12:59:39 PM+BitterDrinkdon't want what?  to repel the tax?
12:59:45 PM+MonfdBitterDrink: GOP supporters are uneducated authoritarians. They want whatever their hierarchy wants.
12:59:54 PM+BitterDrinkright
12:59:59 PM+MonfdIf you tell them they're pro-Russian, then they're pro-Russian.
1:00:10 PM+Monfdif you tell them they're anti-Russian, then they're anti-Russian.
1:00:22 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepIts for what is called  a circle wash. its a
1:00:35 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepthing where each guy washes the hands of the guy
1:00:38 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreep standing to the right of him
1:00:40 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreep .
1:00:57 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreep It is usually done after another phenomenon called a circle.... nevermind
1:01:21 PM+BitterDrinkHis tax plan doubled the exemption
1:02:21 PM+MonfdTrump and the GOP is a minority faction that is attacking our country.
1:02:31 PM+MonfdIf they were a foreign government, when kill them with drone strikes.
1:03:11 PM+Monfdwe'd kill them*
1:04:14 PM@xsnlxhttps://gizmodo.com/neanderthals-and-denisovans-shared-a-siberian-cave-for-1832195445
1:04:22 PM← Noodlings has quit (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
1:04:27 PMⓘ Noodling- is now known as Noodling
1:04:45 PM← Raven` has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
1:04:52 PM@xsnlxHedrin, I agree, the fascination with "factory jobs" is way overrated
1:05:05 PM→ Noodlings has joined
1:05:05 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v Noodlings
1:05:16 PM@xsnlxa dollar from services spends just like a dollar from mfg
1:05:48 PM@xsnlxyeah, that's the problem, they have 1970s skills in a 2019 world
1:06:20 PM+MonfdIt angers me that Mueller hasn't worked faster.
1:06:27 PM+MonfdTrump is an incredible danger.
1:06:32 PM+MonfdGet him the fuck out of the Oval Office.
1:07:06 PM@xsnlxthere's a reason the 85% of the population is in the cities, those are the economic engines
1:07:42 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepthey would get fired if they talked
1:07:53 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepthats not so bad at least it doesnt violate the first amendment
1:07:53 PM@xsnlxyeah, god forbid you actually had conversations
1:08:29 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepso if i am under a gag order and i keep talking and they jail me  and i just keep talking do they have to keep me from being raped?
1:08:39 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepand if they dont what happens?
1:08:46 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepis there any penalty for the government workers
1:09:21 PM@xsnlxMonfd, Mueller is going it be the numbers, he's only going to get one shot at this
1:09:26 PM→ AgentDaleCooper has joined
1:09:26 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v AgentDaleCooper
1:09:31 PM@xsnlxis doing it
1:09:52 PM+Monfdxsnlx: We don't really know what he's doing
1:10:07 PM+MonfdI am vey well versed in the public information of the Mueller probe
1:10:10 PM@xsnlxwe know he's the perfect guy for this job
1:10:16 PM+MonfdI also know that Trump is an extraordinary phenomenon
1:10:28 PM@xsnlxHedrin, why would you think he doesn't?
1:10:30 PM+MonfdAnd everyday he's president is an incredible threat to our country
1:10:41 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreepno he is the best
1:10:43 PM+EXEMPTChamberCreep for the nation
1:10:49 PM@xsnlxyes, and hopefully is strengthening Mueller's case
1:10:51 PM Ignoring EXEMPTChamberCreep!*@*
1:11:39 PM@xsnlxwho else would direct "a senior Trump campaign" official to ask Stone about more WikiLeaks info?
1:12:09 PM@xsnlxmy money says that's Trump
1:12:09 PM+BitterDrinkjared?
1:12:24 PM@xsnlxsure, could be someone else
1:12:42 PM+BitterDrinkChris Christie sure doesn't like his father
1:12:46 PM@xsnlxI don't think Jared normally direct campaign officials
1:12:50 PM@xsnlxdirected
1:13:00 PM+Monfdxsnlx: We don't know.
1:13:34 PM@xsnlxand apparently "senior Trump administration" officials were at Stone's house the night before the FBI raid
1:13:51 PM@xsnlxthat's getting pretty close to a smoking gun
1:13:51 PM+MonfdWhere are you getting that from
1:14:04 PM@xsnlxApril Ryan
1:14:10 PM+MonfdLink?
1:15:37 PM+Monfdhttps://twitter.com/Porter_Anderson/status/1089955941779496967
1:15:57 PM@xsnlxhttps://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/roger-stone-met-with-trump-associates-hours-before-raid-and-the-fbi...
1:16:39 PM@xsnlxHedrin, of course, they told her deny everything or end up as dog food
1:17:21 PM+BitterDrinkAnd trump had another private meeting with Putin
1:17:39 PM@xsnlxyes, recently disclosed, of course, no interpreter, no notes
1:17:46 PM+MonfdThe guy is a Russian agent
1:17:55 PM+MonfdWhat the fuck is the intelligence community doing
1:18:11 PM@xsnlxthey seem to be aware of the situation
1:18:16 PM+MonfdOh?
1:18:20 PM+MonfdI'm looking at your first link
1:18:24 PM+MonfdWhy do you say that
1:18:40 PM@xsnlxbecause senior ex-officials have said as much
1:18:55 PM+MonfdWhat does being 'aware of the situation' mean
1:19:05 PM+Monfdxsnlx: You said the other day that no topics were blocked in this channel, which was false
1:19:14 PM+Monfdxsnlx: The intelligence community should assassinate Donald Trump
1:19:15 PM@xsnlxwell, at one point they were actively investigating Trump
1:19:18 PM+MonfdIt's immoral they haven't already done so
1:19:28 PM+MonfdIf he was a foreign actor, we would have already killed him by now
1:19:46 PM@xsnlxwell, I'd like to think they would have arrested him first
1:19:53 PM@xsnlxand a trial would be a nice touch
1:19:55 PM+MonfdI'm fine with that, but they aren't doing that either
1:19:57 PM+MonfdSure
1:20:07 PM@xsnlxthat pesky Constitution
1:20:17 PM+MonfdBut a trial requires a long investigation, and a long investigation allows him to do a lot of damage
1:20:31 PM+MonfdDon't just say 'Constitution'
1:20:44 PM+MonfdAs if that that covers this situation
1:20:51 PM@xsnlxyes, the price of due process, otherwise you just get assassinations as the process for regime change
1:21:04 PM+MonfdNo, you get assassinations when you get elected president and conspire with enemies
1:21:24 PM+MonfdThat's the line, to quote Louis CK
1:21:27 PM+MonfdWhere does it stop?
1:21:44 PM+Monfd"It stops at being the president and frequently conspiring with enemies"
1:21:48 PM@xsnlxtrust the process
1:21:52 PM+MonfdWhy?
1:22:01 PM+Monfdxsnlx: I am aware of everything you're saying
1:22:06 PM+MonfdAre you aware of everything I'm saying?
1:22:10 PM@xsnlxbecause otherwise you're undermining the rule of law
1:22:22 PM+MonfdBut, wait, Turmp is undermining the rule of law
1:22:30 PM+MonfdAnd following the rule of law allows him to undermine the rule of law
1:22:30 PM@xsnlxyes, he is
1:22:37 PM+MonfdSo it's impossible to not have the rule of law undermined
1:22:41 PM+MonfdWhich puts us into a cost-benefit analysis
1:22:49 PM+MonfdWhere we have to weigh unpleasant, extreme alternatives
1:23:04 PM@xsnlxwe'll be sure to call you for the next Constitutional Convention
1:23:06 PM+Monfdxsnlx: No system can write all its rules down
1:23:17 PM+Monfdxsnlx: You seem unwilling to explore all the realms of political philosophy
1:23:23 PM@xsnlxlol
1:23:29 PM+Monfdxsnlx: People have been killing their leaders since they have been leaders
1:23:32 PM+MonfdDo you agree with that?
1:23:34 PM→ BrokenToes has joined
1:23:34 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v BrokenToes
1:23:53 PM+Monfdxsnlx: The great myth of the modern society is that all contingencies are written down
1:23:57 PM+MonfdThat's obviously a child's myth
1:24:05 PM+MonfdIt is impossible to write all possible cases and context down into documents
1:24:14 PM+MonfdHow do we know that is impossible?
1:24:19 PM+MonfdLook at the foundations of the common law system
1:24:39 PM+MonfdCourts have to perpetually re-interpret the same text for myriad circumstances because that context hasn't yet been explored
1:24:54 PM+MonfdYou want to believe that the founding documents of your system have taken everything into account
1:24:57 PM+MonfdYou were taught that as a child
1:25:03 PM+MonfdThey don't do that and they never did
1:25:05 PM@xsnlxno, the GIT says that all truths cannot be proved typographically, that's not the same as the rules;  all of the rules can be written (at least for some systems), but those rules cannot produce all of the truths
1:25:11 PM+MonfdAnd they have huge gaps in them
1:25:15 PM+MonfdAnd they require good people to enforce them
1:25:44 PM@xsnlxany power given to peoples' discretion can be abused too
1:25:47 PM+MonfdAgreed
1:25:53 PM+MonfdBack to cost-benefit analysis
1:26:12 PM@xsnlxyes, the rule would be:  "Don't elect shitbags"
1:26:16 PM+MonfdAnd doing a cost-benefit analysis has a very different timbre than "The Constitution says you can't!! It's immoral!"
1:26:21 PM+MonfdNo, that can't be the only rule
1:26:22 PM+MonfdThat's childish
1:26:39 PM+Monfdxsnlx: It's obviously correct to kill the president extra-judicially sometimes, yes?
1:26:44 PM+MonfdYou at least agree to that, right
1:26:57 PM@xsnlxyou seem to demand a more meticulous argument than I'm willing to invest in
1:27:10 PM+MonfdYes, beyond "The Constitution doesn't allow it"
1:27:13 PM+MonfdWhich is for children
1:27:20 PM@xsnlxECC, your only option is violent overthrow of the current regime
1:27:32 PM+MonfdYou are uncomfortable with this topic
1:27:39 PM+MonfdBut that's incompatible with valuing political philosophy
1:27:43 PM+MonfdAnd it's extremely privileged, too
1:27:54 PM+MonfdDo you imagine yourself being quite noble right now?
1:28:06 PM+MonfdThat you wouldn't even consider having to kill your leader, even if duly elected?
1:28:15 PM+MonfdThis is an extremely privileged viewpoint that many, many humans don't get to experience
1:28:21 PM@xsnlxECC, your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to establish a theocracy with you as the Chosen One...this IRC client will self-destruct in 30 seconds
1:28:25 PM+MonfdMany humans have elected leaders and then had that leader rape or kill their kids en masse
1:28:45 PM+MonfdAnd it's incredibly dismissive of their human experience to say, well, the "The Constitution allows them to try against in 4 years."
1:28:56 PM+MonfdBut it's painful to live in that part of the human experience -- nobody wants it
1:29:02 PM+MonfdIf you're in for real, you have no options
1:29:10 PM@xsnlxTrump is conman that got duped into becoming president so that Putin could fuck up this country
1:29:17 PM+BitterDrinkHedrin:  twitter troll to be specific
1:29:24 PM+MonfdAnd if you're not in it for real, nobody wants to use philosophy ahead of time to figure out what to do when our societies collapse to that area
1:29:38 PM+Monfdxsnlx: It's obviously correct to kill the president extra-judicially sometimes, yes?
1:29:43 PM+MonfdI can create a scenario for you
1:29:49 PM+MonfdIf that will make it easier
1:29:54 PM@xsnlxthanks, no thanks
1:30:36 PM+Monfdxsnlx: Do you agree you've signaled that you shall not be considered on the topic of "What's the cost-benefit of allowing Trump to undermine the rule of law v. having the intelligence community killing him"?
1:30:39 PM← Muckfarley has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1:30:52 PM+MonfdThat's the topic you instantly engaged a view minutes ago by repeating platitudes that we all know
1:31:03 PM+Monfd"Universal rules are for lackeys. Context is for kings"
1:31:19 PM+MonfdIt's obviously correct to kill the president extra-judicially sometimes
1:31:28 PM← kiwi88 has left
1:31:40 PM+MonfdSorry if that bothers your extreme privilege where you can not empathize with hundreds of millions of humans who have lived in that situation
1:32:01 PM@xsnlxCARNIVORE SIGINT SEMTEX GRU
1:32:13 PM+MonfdExample: The president is reaching for the nuclear football and his tone of voice and facial expression indicate to an observer he's having a psychotic break. He says, Launch the nukes! Burn them. Burn them all!
1:32:25 PM@xsnlxjust saying hi to NSA, love you guys, keep up the good work!
1:32:25 PM+MonfdIn that situation, xsnlx, you discharge a firearm into the president's head
1:32:49 PM+Monfdxsnlx: What does it mean about your civilization that you discussing political philosophy causes you to worry about being monitored by the intelligence community
1:33:01 PM+MonfdDo you wish that I self-censored and refused to do political philosophy?
1:33:12 PM+MonfdThis entire conversation is protected free speech under Watts v. United States, xsnlx
1:33:13 PM@xsnlxMonfd, I wasn't worried, I was saying hi to them
1:33:18 PM+MonfdIt's okay to not be afraid
1:33:32 PM+MonfdI don't have any ability to move the intelligence community to kill Donald Trump
1:33:47 PM@xsnlxlol
1:34:04 PM@xsnlxI would dearly love to believe that, Hedrin
1:34:49 PM+Monfdxsnlx: Do you desire some people in your society to figure out when we should kill the sovereign?
1:35:09 PM+MonfdYou've implied in this conversation you do not desire that, but you would like to allow it during Constitutional Convention periods
1:35:13 PM+MonfdThe last being in 1787
1:36:23 PM+Monfd"I don't really do political philosophy man. I just instantly engage political philosophy topics with platitudes we all learned where we pretend our obviously failing institutions will take care of us effortlessly. When pushed further, I remind I don't do political philosophy."
1:36:26 PM← tzipsaway has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1:36:48 PM→ tzipsaway has joined
1:36:48 PMⓘ Raven`X set mode +v tzipsaway
1:37:38 PM+MonfdHey, can we kill people? No, honey. What about a serial killer? Well, we'd like to hold them in a trial.
1:37:54 PM+MonfdWhat if I come across a serial killer in the middle of trying to kill a person and there's nothing I can do except kill them?
1:38:10 PM+MonfdOh, honey, don't discuss that! The police could be listening!
1:38:23 PM+josephMonfd: In the words of Monty Python: "Run away!"
1:38:37 PM+Monfd*quizzical look* Well, some people get victimized by serial killers. I want to help them. I thought planning ahead when we were under attack by serial killers would be the right time to figure out what to do
1:38:51 PM+MonfdLook, honey, I'm not going to get involved in such an uncouth topic!
1:39:34 PM+Monfd*quizzical look* But some people are victimized by serial killers, right? And that's gonna happen in the future, right? Since being an observer of a serial killer in progress is part of the human experience, should I extend thought into that part of the human experience?
1:39:38 PM+MonfdI won't do it!!
1:40:18 PM+Monfd*quizzical look* Aren't you being extremely privilege right now but never having been the victim of a serial killer, and not even willing to empathize with that part of the human experience so we can figure out what to do in such parts of the human experience?
1:40:22 PM+MonfdHI POLICE
1:41:09 PM+Noodlingwtf is happening here this evening?
1:41:11 PM+Monfd*quizzical look* It seems you're incapable of extending reason to this part of the human experience. Okay, stay moral in the more mundane regions of the human experience. Celebrate your philosophical soldiers who run into conflict, then
1:41:36 PM+MonfdNoodling: I was discussing the cost-benefit analysis of the American intelligence community assassinating Donald Trump for his frequent collusion with enemies of our nation
1:41:38 PM+Noodlingzapato: Seems that way
1:41:49 PM+Monfdxsnlx responded by communicating he fears this conversation being monitored
1:42:24 PM+MonfdMy primary argument is that not all the rule *nor* all the interactions between the rules we create as a language-based civilization and their interaction with the human experience can be written down
1:42:29 PM@xsnlxMonfd, you are incorrect
1:42:33 PM+MonfdAnd so it's fallacious to always assume our Elder Documents will save us
1:42:40 PM+Monfdxsnlx: On which point
1:42:50 PM@xsnlx<+Monfd> xsnlx responded by communicating he fears this conversation being monitored
1:43:07 PM+MonfdCivilization requires, and I know this is shocking, *the new generation to add their mental contributions to the political structures*
1:43:11 PM@xsnlxI'm not fearful whatsoever
1:43:22 PM+Monfdxsnlx: You performed the act of saying hi to the NSA during this conversation, yes
1:43:29 PM+MonfdAnd you essentially never do that in other conversations
1:43:37 PM+MonfdWhat was your motivating force to do that, then?
1:43:45 PM+Monfdxsnlx: All of these conversations are monitored by the NSA
1:44:04 PM@xsnlxyes, I did.  I wanted to say hi to the NSA and thank them for their service
1:44:07 PM+MonfdThey are stored and analyzed by algorithms, if they are flagged by those algorithms, a human is added to the loop
1:44:17 PM+Monfdxsnlx: You answered a question nobody asked
1:44:25 PM+MonfdNobody asked what you did
1:44:30 PM@xsnlxMonfd, you are incorrect
1:44:44 PM+MonfdYou're now being evasive
1:44:51 PM@xsnlxMonfd, you are incorrect again
1:45:00 PM+NoodlingHedrin: Terrorist dirty nuke bomb threat trump 9/11 al qaeda?
1:45:02 PM@xsnlx<+Monfd> What was your motivating force to do that, then?
1:45:06 PM+MonfdI noted two phenomena: 1) you said hi to the NSA in this conversation and 2) that's not a behavior you do ever
1:45:16 PM+MonfdYour response ignored the second part of my question
1:45:22 PM@xsnlxMonfd, you are incorrect yet again
1:45:24 PM+MonfdThereby answering a question nobody asked you
1:45:49 PM+Monfdxsnlx: You still haven't answer my question
1:45:52 PM@xsnlx"I saw that"  :-)
1:46:00 PM+MonfdYou're not going to answer my question
1:46:07 PM+NoodlingHedrin: Gah, when I'm subtle in my ideas to assassinate trump, no-one notices, when I'm blatant it's "too obvious".  Make up your mind!
1:46:08 PM+MonfdYou like this meta-process space instead of the main space
1:46:11 PM@xsnlxnow you see the future
1:46:15 PM Ignoring xsnlx!*@*
1:46:21 PM+Monfdxsnlx: I disengaged from you for 15 minutes
1:46:38 PM+MonfdIt's a conversational violation to refuse to engage a topic but to delight into the meta-process space around that topic
1:47:11 PM+NoodlingOh my god this is a fucking boring conversation!
1:47:17 PM+MonfdNoodling: Do you believe killing the president is morally different than the president killing a non-president?
1:47:18 PM+MonfdI do not.
1:47:20 PM+AgentDaleCooperWhy does this person sound like Lania, who is akicked?
1:47:22 PM← BitterDrink has quit (Quit: leaving)
1:47:27 PM+NoodlingMonfd: I literally do not give a fuck.
1:47:40 PM+MonfdNoodling: Why?
1:47:56 PM Ignoring AgentDaleCooper!*@*
1:48:18 PM+MonfdNoodling: Do you agree it's telling when a person passionately tells us they don't care about something?
1:48:22 PM+Noodlingzapato: More interestingly (to me anyway) new car tomorrow!
1:48:36 PM+MonfdNoodling: This is a debate room
1:48:51 PM+MonfdDiscussing your personal life over a debate, which you apparently passionately dislike, is weird to me
1:49:03 PM+NoodlingMonfd: Oh go away and masturbate or something.  Get whatever this is out of your system.
1:49:13 PM+MonfdNoodling: That's an interesting anti-intellectualism
1:49:19 PM+MonfdIt feels like a taboo response
1:49:32 PM+Noodlingzapato: Yep, looking forward to taking it out and getting used to it.
1:49:32 PMⓘ THERetroGamerNY set mode +b *!*47c10a3d@c-71-193-10-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
1:49:32 PM× You have been kicked by THERetroGamerNY (THERetroGamerNY)