wikileaks: VIETNAM ADOPTIONS - DCM MEETING WITH VU DUC LONG

WikiLeaks

Shop Donate Submit


Leaks
 News
 About
 Partners










Facebook
Twitter



WikiLeaks

Press release

About PlusD


Browse by creation date
1966 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Browse by Classification

UNCLASSIFIED

CONFIDENTIAL

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE

SECRET

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

CONFIDENTIAL//NOFORN

SECRET//NOFORN


Browse by Handling Restriction

EXDIS - Exclusive Distribution Only

ONLY - Eyes Only

LIMDIS - Limited Distribution Only

NODIS - No Distribution (other than to persons indicated)

STADIS - State Distribution Only

CHEROKEE - Limited to senior officials

NOFORN - No Foreign Distribution

LOU - Limited Official Use

SENSITIVE -

BU - Background Use Only

CONDIS - Controlled Distribution

US - US Government Only


Browse by TAGS
US PFOR PGOV PREL ETRD UR OVIP ASEC OGEN CASC PINT EFIN BEXP OEXC EAID CVIS OTRA ENRG OCON ECON NATO PINS GE JA UK IS MARR PARM UN EG FR PHUM SREF EAIR MASS APER SNAR PINR EAGR PDIP AORG PORG MX TU ELAB IN CA SCUL CH IR IT XF GW EINV TH TECH SENV OREP KS EGEN PEPR MILI SHUM KISSINGER, HENRY A PL BR RP GR SF AFSP SP PTER MOPS SA UNGA CGEN ESTC SOPN RO LE TGEN PK AR NI OSCI CI EEC VS YO AFIN OECD SY IZ ID VE TPHY TW AS PBOR

Media Organizations

Australia - The Age

Argentina - Pagina 12

Brazil - Publica

Bulgaria - Bivol

Egypt - Al Masry Al Youm

Greece - Ta Nea

Guatemala - Plaza Publica

Haiti - Haiti Liberte

India - The Hindu

Italy - L'Espresso

Italy - La Repubblica

Lebanon - Al Akhbar

Mexico - La Jornada

Spain - Publico

Sweden - Aftonbladet

UK - AP

US - The Nation








Specified Search View Map Make Timegraph View Tags Image Library



VIETNAM ADOPTIONS - DCM MEETING WITH VU DUC LONG

Date:

2004 August 12, 09:50 (Thursday)

Canonical ID:

04HANOI2220_a


Original Classification:

UNCLASSIFIED

Current Classification:

UNCLASSIFIED


Handling Restrictions

-- Not Assigned --


Character Count:

8643


Executive Order:

-- Not Assigned --

Locator:

TEXT ONLINE


TAGS:

CASC - Consular Affairs--Assistance to Citizens | PREL - Political Affairs--External Political Relations | VM - Vietnam

Concepts:

-- Not Assigned --


Enclosure:

-- Not Assigned --

Type:

TE - Telegram (cable)


Office Origin:

-- N/A or Blank --


Office Action:

-- N/A or Blank --

Archive Status:

-- Not Assigned --


From:

Vietnam Hanoi

Markings:

-- Not Assigned --


To:

-- N/A or Blank --






Content

Raw content

Metadata

Print

Share




Show Headers
(August 7, 2004, subject:  RE: Talking Points - DCM call on
Mr. Long)

1.  (U) Summary.  On August 9, 2004 Deputy Chief of Mission
John Boardman met with Mr. Vu Duc Long of the Department of
International Adoptions at the Ministry of Justice to
further clarify the content of the diplomatic note ref A.
Director Long explained that because adoptions concern
fundamental human rights, the Vietnamese system requires
that an agreement touching upon it be framed as a treaty.
However, due to differences in how the GVN and USG define
"treaty", it will be possible to sign a document with the
accepted title, if it has "the content of a treaty."   To
have "the content of a treaty", the GVN insists that such an
agreement form new "binding obligations", chiefly the
creation of a centralized USG agency to verify Prospective
Adoptive Parent (PAP) application dossiers and Adoption
Service Provider (ASP) licenses and activities.  If the USG
cannot provide such centralized oversight, the GVN asks for
a central authority to serve as a point of contact to assist
with these verifications at the state and local level.  When
asked to clarify what the GVN is seeking in terms of
"humanitarian support", Long sidestepped into an awkward
explanation that the ASPs must help support the orphanages
from which they adopt.  He was unable specify what such
support entailed, other than to say that it should be
"reasonable", and that ASPs will need to have "good
relations" to adopt in Vietnam.  Finally, Long confirmed
that the adoption of children with special needs, as with
applications made by 'friends of Vietnam', could currently
be considered on a case-by-case basis.  End Summary.

GVN ANTICIPATES ARRIVAL OF A/S HARTY
------------------------------------

2.  (U) On August 9, 2004 Deputy Chief of Mission John
Boardman met with Mr. Vu Duc Long of the Department of
International Adoptions at the Ministry of Justice to
further clarify the content of the diplomatic note ref A.
After DCM Boardman and Director Long reiterated the
importance of restarting American adoptions in Vietnam, Long
indicated that with hard work from both sides, substantial
deliverables may be ready for A/S Harty's visit to Vietnam
in October.  Long also assumed that A/S Harty would want to
meet with other officials, suggesting that he does not see
adoptions as being the primary cause of her visit to
Vietnam.

THE DEMAND FOR A TREATY
-----------------------

3.  (U) Long and the DCM went immediately to the central
question of why a treaty is required.  Long explained that
the Vietnamese system recognizes four categories of
international agreements: state-state, government-
government, ministry-ministry, and those conferred by the
Supreme Court or other agencies.  In Vietnam, because
adoption concerns the central rights of human beings, it
must be legislated at the state level.  In the Vietnamese
system "treaty" is the proper name for agreements between
states.

4.  (U) Understanding that the USG has a different
understanding of the term treaty and does not intent to sign
a document bearing that title, Long agreed that a document
with the current title could satisfy the requirement for a
treaty if it were signed by a high-level USG official and
had "the content of a treaty".

5.  (U) When questioned by the DCM on what was meant by "the
content of a treaty", Long replied that it must place new
binding obligations and rights upon its signatories.  The
"binding obligations" sought by the GVN seem to be
obligations regarding oversight of ASPs and the applications
of PAPs.  See paras 7 and 8.

6.  (U) When pressed further on why Decree 68 mandates a
treaty, Long acknowledged that because there had been no
central regulation of the adoptions process in Vietnam prior
to Decree 68, there had been "problems".  To correct these
prior deficiencies, Long asserted that Decree 68 raises
adoptions to the highest (State) level and requires a
central authority to regulate adoptions.

GVN WISH TO PREVENT FRAUD THROUGH CENTRAL AUTHORITY
OVERSIGHT
--------------------------------------------- ---------------
-

7.  (U) Long then focused on the importance of being able to
verify the lawfulness and authenticity of application
dossiers submitted by PAPs, the licensing and activities of
ASPs, and the identity and dossiers of orphans. The GVN
would like to establish clear responsibilities for these
matters, with the USG responsible for verifying PAP
application dossiers and ASP licensing, and the GVN
responsible for verifying the dossiers of orphans.

8.  (U) The DCM replied that the USG could not perform
federal oversight of ASPs as licensing of ASPs and adoptions
are both governed at the state level in the U.S..  The USG
does not have the authority to determine whether or not an
ASP could operate in Vietnam.  He suggested that the
authority to issue or revoke a license to operate lies with
the GVN.  Long in turn suggested that a federal central
authority serve as a point of contact for the GVN so that it
could "discuss" the history and lawfulness of a PAPs'
dossier or an ASPs' license and activities without needing
to refer to each of the 50 states.  This request was
repeated throughout the meeting.  Long also reiterated that
in order to be licensed to operate in Vietnam, ASPs must
have prior experience in Asia and "good relationships" in
Vietnam.

9.  The DCM attempted to focus the conversation on the
prevention of fraud in the aspects for which the GVN would
like to take responsibility.  He asked about practices for
licensing or revoking the licenses of ASPs.  He asked about
verification that an orphan is truly an orphan and that
there was no exchange of funds.  In response to all of these
questions, Long made unclear statements that the Vietnamese
system would be stronger than the Chinese system and
repeatedly turned the questions back to USG oversight over
ASPs and PAPs.

LEGALIZATION/AUTHENTICATION
---------------------------

10.  (U) Following on, Long again raised the GVN desire to
eliminate the need for consular legalization of documents.
He explained that if the GVN were assured that the ASP was
legally licensed and the application dossier was complete
and lawful, there would be no need for further `consular
legalization' (meaning authentication) of documents.


REQUEST FOR HUMANITARIAN SUPPORT
--------------------------------

11.  (U) As requested in ref C, DCM then pressed for
clarification of what the GVN is seeking in terms of
"humanitarian support".  Long then launched into an
impassioned explanation that if foreign parents wish to
adopt healthy children, then the foreign ASPs handling their
adoptions must provide support to the local orphanages to
ensure the health of the children.  He could not name an
amount or specify language to include in the document,
saying only that the amount should be "reasonable".  He did,
though, push further to suggest that ASPs will need to have
"good relations" with the orphanages if they expect to have
children referred to their PAPs, and made a clear link
between those "good relations" and the humanitarian support
provided.

SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN
----------------------

12.  (U) Mission did not broach the subject of a pilot
program, but did verify that special needs children are
currently eligible for adoption.  Long said that adoption of
special needs children would be reviewed on a case-by-case
basis.  In a seeming attempt to appear to be accommodating,
Long also offered that adoptions applications from diplomats
and friends of helpful U.S. Senators would be considered as
special cases.  Conoff replied firmly that the USG would not
encourage such special exceptions to the law.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP
----------------

13.  (U) When raised by the DCM, Long insisted he had no
concerns regarding the citizenship of children adopted under
this agreement.  He simply stated that Vietnamese children
must maintain their citizenship until given the choice at
age 18, and that as the USG allows for dual citizenship, the
issue was "not a problem".

BURGHARDT














































References to this document in other cables

References in this document to other cables



04HANOI2708


If the reference is ambiguous all possibilities are listed.



Help Expand The Public Library of US Diplomacy

Your role is important:
 WikiLeaks maintains its robust independence through your contributions.


Use your credit card to send donations

The Freedom of the Press Foundation is tax deductible in the U.S.

Donate to WikiLeaks via the
Freedom of the Press Foundation

For other ways to donate please see https://shop.wikileaks.org/donate







Tweet



























Top




WL Research Community - user contributed research based on documents published by WikiLeaks.







Tor is an encrypted anonymising network that makes it harder to intercept internet communications, or see where communications are coming from or going to.







Tails is a live operating system, that you can start on almost any computer from a DVD, USB stick, or SD card. It aims at preserving your privacy and anonymity.







The Courage Foundation is an international organisation that supports those who risk life or liberty to make significant contributions to the historical record.







Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority or banks; managing transactions and the issuing of bitcoins is carried out collectively by the network.


Facebook
 Twitter