Part 2: Not too proud of my anger here but hell man.

Calli - Today at 6:27 PM
Why not? It's a real thing.
Ultra - Today at 6:27 PM
Yeah, you really don't know much about zach if you think HE is priveleged.
Best not to throw that word around like that
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:28 PM
i ignore people like that and im absolutely not privileged in any sense of the word
Ultra - Today at 6:28 PM
If I were in his situation I wouldn't be here
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:28 PM
:shrug:
Ultra - Today at 6:28 PM
because i'd be angry and toxic as fuck :y
Calli - Today at 6:29 PM
There are a lot of people who don't have the ability to just ignore people who're trying to make their lives worse.
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:29 PM
I live with my lower class family in a trailer where we just had 120 dollars stolen from us and had to go to the food bank just to get food, I can afford luxuries yes but I will probably never end up going to college because i can't afford it and my family has had to fight for what we have more than once.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:29 PM
let me just put out there that male privilege is definetley at least somewhat real
working in trades? People just take more credibility from a man than a woman
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:29 PM
Do not claim i have "privelege" when I have little privelege to speak of.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:30 PM
also, my mother is a daughter of a sailor and served in the navy
my naval experience is having worked a little under a year with this company
they still let me drive the boats and not her
Calli - Today at 6:30 PM
I'll give you this. I hate that the word privilege was used for it. Because honestly it's just used to mean that the world works for you the way it's supposed to work.
I'm not saying it's a good thing or that you were supposed to grow up poor. Don't misinterpret me on that, but like it's sort of how somone says "Hey, it could always be worse"
Ultra - Today at 6:31 PM
I hate to be "that guy"
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:31 PM
Privelege exists in the world yes but 90% of it is a lot of falsehoods used purely by people so they don't have to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
Ultra - Today at 6:31 PM
But we live in the U.S, we're very heavily privileged compared to many parts of the word. We don't live in the sticks and mud and are fucked out of all opportunities.
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:31 PM
like am i really supposed to believe that as a white man, i have inherently more privelge than a rich black dude like kanye west?
Ultra - Today at 6:32 PM
If you don't realize this, or don't really know, then I'd suggest looking into other countries and what it'd be like to live anywhere else.
Calli - Today at 6:32 PM
No Zach that's not what it means
Ultra - Today at 6:32 PM
Our president may be an asshole, our system looks like shit, our government seems shoddy and untrustworthy, and life might seem hard. But it's a lot easier here than it is most other places.
It's not the best but it's damn near close for a country of this size.
We house 330-350 million people, so of course we won't be as good as some places with low population and more freedom over what happens.
Calli - Today at 6:33 PM
Also when did I ever say living in the US wasn't a privilege?
Ultra - Today at 6:33 PM
There have been times where you were getting close, or there were implications surrounding what you were saying that drove me to believe this.
Calli - Today at 6:34 PM
Also for Zach when people say privilege it more means. It'd be worse for you if you're situation was mostly the same except you were for example black
Ultra - Today at 6:34 PM
Again, that kind of thing depends heavily on the area you're in
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:35 PM
^
Ultra - Today at 6:35 PM
Lots of black people in my area do very well for themselves.
We have more white people in poverty here than anyone else :y
Lots of white trash, and this is the NORTH.
Calli - Today at 6:35 PM
I'm not saying black people never make money, or that white people aren't poor
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:35 PM
Calli, i have a question
Calli - Today at 6:36 PM
My last sentence was literally me saying that's not what I meant
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:36 PM
can you please tell me why you think that because i think the way that i do that I must be privileged?
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:36 PM
trying to reach the same ceiling white people have a longer ladder
poc have a shorter ladder they have to stretcg more to get to the same place
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:36 PM
Okay stopping this for a moment
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:36 PM
not that they cant do it ever
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:37 PM
I hate to sound like that guy but
Ultra - Today at 6:37 PM
I can't back tihs kind of stuff up because from what most people say about black/white privilege is literally the exact opposite in my area
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:37 PM
can you guys please stop using the term POC
Ultra - Today at 6:37 PM
if I were black I would've been much better off in this area
Calli - Today at 6:37 PM
No
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:37 PM
how does the term POC offend you?
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:37 PM
<-- is a person of color
:/
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:37 PM
"People of Color" is the same thing as saying "Colored People" just rearranged.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:37 PM
But it's accepted by them?
Zach there's no reason you should be offended by this
Calli - Today at 6:37 PM
Except it's a label that people are self identifying as
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:38 PM
and it creates this entire dynamic of "It's the Whites VS POC" in this world.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:38 PM
if the people using it, are people of colour
I
I'm sorry I'm pfFHF
well that's because there's a very obvious divide, zach
I'm also going to say it but there's definitely at least some amount of privilege
Have you ever been pulled over by the cops with a felony
and then let go because "you don't look like bad people"
you'll know then, zach
believe me
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:39 PM
Again, I don't agree.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:39 PM
you don't actually need to in this case, it's what it is
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:39 PM
That's using the example of a few racist people to color an entire section of society.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:39 PM
The privilige doesn't ALWAYS sway to white people, which people forget to include
BUT PRIVILEGE WILL ALWAYS BE AFFORDED TO MEMBERS OF THE HIGHEST POPULATION DEMOGRAPHIC
Just remember that, tru fax
Humans have a pack mentality
Calli - Today at 6:40 PM
Zach also I'm not saying that class isn't a thing that doesn't afford people privlige
Pip - Today at 6:40 PM
h o r s e s h o e
Ultra - Today at 6:40 PM
What's even being said right now,,
Calli - Today at 6:43 PM
I'm gonna add something that seems to be missing. There are a lot of different types of privilege. Economic, racial, gender, sexuality these all are different types of privilege
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:44 PM
No but I do find it personally offensive when people claim I have privelege when there have been times i've had to fight for what I have in my life now. Saying that "WELL LIFE WOULD BE SO MUCH HARDER IF YOU WERE BLACK" isn't necessarily true because as mark said that type of thing depends on the area where you grow up, there are black people here in america who have grown up and never faced a single ounce of prejudice for being black, black people who have deeply conservative opinions and don't think society is the way you think it is. The same goes for asian, arab, etc. people.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:44 PM
I don't think this is about you personally
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:44 PM
i dont hink you can say theres a single black person whos Never been prejudiced against either
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:44 PM
I'm not talking about you at all, really. I'm just stating that as an overall fact, this is how people behave
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:44 PM
cause everyones had some level of prejudice its just certain groups face it more
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:44 PM
you shouldn't be offended by that, honestly
the problems we're experiencing today are very much the same problems that have existed forever. They've only changed in how they appear, but the root of the problem's never actually gone.
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:46 PM
I truly and utterly can't agree.
Pip - Today at 6:46 PM
the problem is humans
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:46 PM
yes
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:46 PM
I also think that this mindset is just toxic in general for the sake of progress for humanity.
who cares if someone says something bad about you?
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:46 PM
people have a communal pack mentality. they form bands and have a tendency to push away outsiders or percieved threats
this is regarding to more than just racism
Calli - Today at 6:47 PM
Zach the less priviliged you are the more likely the people who say something bad about you are also people who'll end up having power over you
Like your boss, or that one cop
Or your parents
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:47 PM
and you know what you do in that situation?
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:47 PM
also this is conversation stretches to far more than just "what people say about you
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:48 PM
You fight it, you fight with every ounce of heart and soul you have to change that.
you, as a human, have that power.
Calli - Today at 6:48 PM
Exactly, but that's the opposite of ignoring it
Which is what you originally told me to do
Which is why I called you privileged in the first place
Ultra - Today at 6:48 PM
chinhands.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:48 PM
:rolling_eyes:
Ultra - Today at 6:48 PM
Just end this, please.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:48 PM
maybe I should just let you two burn yaselves out
Ultra - Today at 6:48 PM
This'll be the fourth-fifth time we've looped back to this point.
This has happened multiple times before, neither of you are going to change, therefore there's no point in this going on again.
Pip - Today at 6:49 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Ultra - Today at 6:49 PM
Just drop it for your own sanities, I have no clue how you guys are still going, I got exhausted of this topic the first time it was brought up..
Calli - Today at 6:50 PM
Wait, I literally tried to sort of start ending the argument, because his original statement was one I was making a different assumption than he was
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:50 PM
When it comes to what that conversation was about, products and stuff yes, but when it comes to people and saying stuff like "It's so much harder for black people to be successful because they're actively discriminated against in our society." People have the power to fight back and put a stop to those things.
Ultra - Today at 6:50 PM
Uh. The original point of it all has been to not care about every tiny last little thing in the world because they you get piled up with needless stress/a feeling of general incompetence because you're not Superman and fixing everything.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:50 PM
o my sweet summer children
Ultra - Today at 6:51 PM
That's what it's been each and eeeevveerrytime.
Yet this changed topics like ten times
And somehow ended back at the starting point??
Calli - Today at 6:51 PM
Having to fight to be treated the same is basically the whole definition of privilige was kinda my point, but yeah I'm down to stop.
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:52 PM
u cant really fight back against discrimination anyway like that
then ur jut painted as the bad guy
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:52 PM
and tazed
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:52 PM
yep
Calli - Today at 6:52 PM
That's also true
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:53 PM
even if you're exercising your fourth ammendment to demand explanation for search/seizure and detainment
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:53 PM
I'll say this: Don't assume to know what my life is like Calli, you don't know me in any sense of the word and acting like you know ANYTHING about my life is just arrogance on your part.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:53 PM
Damn zach once again I don't think anyone was talking about you in particular
just about life and how it is for other people
you keep taking these things personally
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:54 PM
well then maybe calli shouldn't have brought up my so called "Privelege" to begin with Theo.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:54 PM
you need to approach these a little less sensitively and not immediately attach the stigmas to yourself. Or do what I do, take every insult as critique and improve from there
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:54 PM
that's why i took it personally.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:54 PM
well, again don't be too sensitive about a debate
it's meant to be handled logically, not emotionally
And yeah, that wasn't a good move. Notably they realized that and admitted it
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:55 PM
I agree it's a complicated issue and that privelege exists in the world, I however do not agree with how you guys see it.
that's what i'll leave it at, I'm sorry for getting heated.
Ultra - Today at 6:56 PM
I'd be heated too if someone called me privileged while my life is essentially crumbling apart :y
You guys have not seen me go fucking hyper nut beastmode
Do not witness this spectacle
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:57 PM
everyone has some amount of privilege and everyone is struggling through life too
the important part is not to believe that you're struggling more than someone else, or that they're struggles are invalid because of this.
🍖jin🍖 - Today at 6:57 PM
my hyper nut beastmode has only been seen by hospital staff
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:58 PM
yeah but so many factors go into privelege that there is no definitive way to say how much privilege someone has or doesn't have.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:58 PM
I know I have a certain amount of male privilege because I can just see how my peers treat men apart from women. Especially in trades with more old fashion people
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 6:59 PM
you can comparatively say that someone has less privilege than another person like i did when comparing myself to kanye west but when comparing two people who like say...work the exact same job and have similar lives?
it's not that simple.
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 6:59 PM
sure it is
Maladapted Daydreamer [Theo] - Today at 7:00 PM
Most women in the Service side of the marine industry never advance past desk assistants
Most women in the Sales side of the marine industry never advance past models and, ah, desk assistants
And rarely I've seen as many women in the Crew side of it, but I know they're captained infrequently enough that there's magazines about it
that's about all I know with the crew side, I work in service so :shrug:
Perish - [Zach] - Today at 7:02 PM
y'know what, i'm gonna dip out now.