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Sunday Night Chatroom 2015/04/05

MegaBossMan Apr 5th, 2015 215 Never
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  1. [18:02] <@MegaBossMan> Alright, everyone, all aboard!
  2.  
  3. [18:02]  * MetaKirbSter Shuts down to listen.
  4.  
  5. [18:02] == AdrianMarceau [63e2ee3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.226.238.61] has joined #mmrpg
  6.  
  7. [18:03] <@MegaBossMan> Everyone, I'm home!
  8.  
  9. [18:03] <@MegaBossMan> Wait a minute, this isn't Kansas....
  10.  
  11. [18:03] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Actually, I'll be afk for a few. Bathroom. Brb.
  12.  
  13. [18:03] <@MegaBossMan> Good luck, dovidenja.
  14.  
  15. [18:03] <AdrianMarceau> Haha, me too.  I know this is gonna run for a while.  >_>
  16.  
  17. [18:03]  * MetaKirbSter Shut's down
  18.  
  19. [18:03] <ThatOneEnderMan> Wait Did stop yet?
  20.  
  21. [18:03] <ThatOneEnderMan> *start
  22.  
  23. [18:04] <@MegaBossMan> Seems like quite a few of our regulars won't be showing up though...
  24.  
  25. [18:04] == mode/#mmrpg [+o AdrianMarceau] by MegaBossMan
  26.  
  27. [18:04] <MetaKirbSter> Am i allowed to talk 1 thing?
  28.  
  29. [18:04] <MetaKirbSter> I want to say... I'll chat PM you what i think of your ideas.
  30.  
  31. [18:04]  * MetaKirbSter Shut's down for real
  32.  
  33. [18:06] <@AdrianMarceau> @Meta : Just wait until the chat is done and you can respond in the thread.  I wont have time to check PMs tonight.
  34.  
  35. [18:07] <MetaKirbSter> Alright.
  36.  
  37. [18:07] <MetaKirbSter> Also
  38.  
  39. [18:07] <MetaKirbSter> I mean on this chat's "Query option:
  40.  
  41. [18:07] <MetaKirbSter> *"
  42.  
  43. [18:07] == MegaBossMan changed the topic of #mmrpg to: Sunday Night Chatroom 2015/04/05
  44.  
  45. [18:07] <@AdrianMarceau> Not sure Meta, haven't ever used it.
  46.  
  47. [18:07] <@AdrianMarceau> But no chat starts NOW.  No more.
  48.  
  49. [18:07] <@AdrianMarceau> I'll kick you, for real.
  50.  
  51. [18:08] <@MegaBossMan> Same here
  52.  
  53. [18:08] <@MegaBossMan> Alright, so without futher adieu.....
  54.  
  55. [18:08] <@AdrianMarceau> As soon as Mike comes back we'll start
  56.  
  57. [18:08] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh, okay go ahead
  58.  
  59. [18:08] <@AdrianMarceau> He can read. :P
  60.  
  61. [18:09] <@MegaBossMan> Alright, so without futher adieu....
  62.  
  63. [18:09] <@MegaBossMan> Who here will be our first volunteer?
  64.  
  65. [18:10] <@MegaBossMan> Just a reminder, but last week we made a point about future T1s and T2s.
  66.  
  67. [18:10] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh yeah?  What point was that exactly (please remind me)?
  68.  
  69. [18:10] <ThatOneEnderMan> So there not gonna be any new pic tonight? Oh well...
  70.  
  71. [18:11] <@MegaBossMan> Well, I mean moreso that T1 and T2s are encouraged to be discussed in the Chat.
  72.  
  73. [18:11] <@AdrianMarceau> I don't have anything ready, but if there are specific aspects you guys would like pictures of I'm more than willing to take a few.
  74.  
  75. [18:11] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah, okay.  Awesome.
  76.  
  77. [18:11] <@AdrianMarceau> I'd like to take more of a listening role tonight than usual, seeing as I always hog the spotlight when I'm here.  :P
  78.  
  79. [18:11] <@MegaBossMan> [I'd also like to remind you all that the Killers screenshots were fake leaks, so no questions about that.]
  80.  
  81. [18:12] <@MegaBossMan> [I'd also like to thank Toby for helping me with those ^_^]
  82.  
  83. [18:12] <@AdrianMarceau> Yes, confirmed.  :P  Was a fun little joke but some people are a lot more gullible than I expected.
  84.  
  85. [18:12] <ThatOneEnderMan> ;-; Rip epic mirror
  86.  
  87. [18:12] <@AdrianMarceau> MBM did make a pretty convincing case though.  :P
  88.  
  89. [18:12] <PhantomMan> Rip Ballade (Again)
  90.  
  91. [18:13] <@MegaBossMan> Well, thanks :)
  92.  
  93. [18:13] <@MegaBossMan> But never mind that, we really don't have any volunteers?
  94.  
  95. [18:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Btw, would you guys be open to me making little videos every now and then?  When I have a new mechanic or something to show off?  Like.... devroom videos or something?
  96.  
  97. [18:13] <@MegaBossMan> Sure.
  98.  
  99. [18:14] <ThatOneEnderMan> That would be cool.
  100.  
  101. [18:14] <@AdrianMarceau> So you can see 'em in action before I actually launch the update?  
  102.  
  103. [18:14] <@MegaBossMan> Can't see how it would hurt.
  104.  
  105. [18:14] <@AdrianMarceau> Awesome.  I'd like to show off some of the new mechanics and the progression of the first few chapters.
  106.  
  107. [18:14] <@MegaBossMan> Does anyone have any questions about future aspects of the Prototype?
  108.  
  109. [18:14] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh, and MBM, about the greyscale sprites.
  110.  
  111. [18:15] <@MegaBossMan> *Braces himself8
  112.  
  113. [18:15] <@MegaBossMan> I already can guess :(
  114.  
  115. [18:16] <@AdrianMarceau> I'm going to make it so that greyscale sprites are "alt0" and are the sprites that replace RMs after you've unlocked them.  The other alts (the funky coloured ones) will only be used to represent starforce boosted RMs (so they'll appear much less frequently).
  116.  
  117. [18:16] <@MegaBossMan> Greyscale, eh?
  118.  
  119. [18:16] <@MegaBossMan> Not the GB?
  120.  
  121. [18:16] <@MegaBossMan> Welp, I owe Mike 20$.
  122.  
  123. [18:16] <ThatOneEnderMan> All I want in this world is for ring man to a black/purple alt. Then, my life would be complete.
  124.  
  125. [18:16] <@AdrianMarceau> I think it would look cool if the full colour RM was automatically replaced with the greyscale "ghost" as soon as you've unlocked 'em.  Will make it more visually obviously who you still need to capture.
  126.  
  127. [18:17] <@MegaBossMan> Alright.
  128.  
  129. [18:17] <@AdrianMarceau> *visually obvious
  130.  
  131. [18:18] <@AdrianMarceau> Other than that... I think that's all I have tonight.  :P
  132.  
  133. [18:18] <@AdrianMarceau> Who's next?
  134.  
  135. [18:18] <@MegaBossMan> Any questions?
  136.  
  137. [18:18] <ThatOneEnderMan> That black/purple ring man would still be cool as a alt, just sayin...
  138.  
  139. [18:19] <@AdrianMarceau> It is pretty dead in here.  It is easter weekend, right?  So I imagine most people are spending time with family.
  140.  
  141. [18:19] <@MegaBossMan> I mean, we gotta have some questions.
  142.  
  143. [18:19] <@MegaBossMan> Eh, next Sunday forme .
  144.  
  145. [18:19] <@AdrianMarceau> I'll definitely consider it, Ender
  146.  
  147. [18:19] <@MegaBossMan> *for me
  148.  
  149. [18:19] <@MegaBossMan> [Custom Alts]
  150.  
  151. [18:19] <@MegaBossMan> *[Custom Alts?]
  152.  
  153. [18:20] <@AdrianMarceau> Someday maybe :P
  154.  
  155. [18:20] <PhantomMan> Mega Man X Themed Alts, maybe?
  156.  
  157. [18:20] <@MegaBossMan> Eh, probably not, but we gotta throw an idea out there.
  158.  
  159. [18:20] <ThatOneEnderMan> Maybe a pink/blue Bright man? I dunno :P
  160.  
  161. [18:20] <@AdrianMarceau> Okay, no more being shy - who's got ANYTHING they want to add?
  162.  
  163. [18:20] <@MegaBossMan> I had one idea for Junk's T1.
  164.  
  165. [18:20] <ThatOneEnderMan> A Red/yellow Proto man as a zero like alt.
  166.  
  167. [18:20] <@AdrianMarceau> Alts a a bit touchy right now.  Before we start requesting specific ones let's get the actual mechanic uploaded first.
  168.  
  169. [18:21] <@MegaBossMan> Sadly, I..Really couldn't think of any mechanics for it.
  170.  
  171. [18:21] <@AdrianMarceau> *are a
  172.  
  173. [18:21] <@MegaBossMan> Maybe you guys could help me with that? :P
  174.  
  175. [18:21] <@AdrianMarceau> @BossMan : what's the idea for Junk's T1?
  176.  
  177. [18:21] <@MegaBossMan> Well, I don't know if any of you know this, but Junk does a lot of jumping.
  178.  
  179. [18:22] <@MegaBossMan> That's not so good, because Jump Sprites aren't a thing.
  180.  
  181. [18:22] <@AdrianMarceau> Okay
  182.  
  183. [18:22] <@MegaBossMan> Which means a lot of his moves are taken out of the equation.
  184.  
  185. [18:22] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah, that's true
  186.  
  187. [18:22] <@AdrianMarceau> We need to get creative using his theme instead of his canon moves I guess.
  188.  
  189. [18:22] <@MegaBossMan> In his battle, he seems to have a Earth/Electric attack, but he already has a T2 that makes much more sense.
  190.  
  191. [18:23] <@AdrianMarceau> Junk Shield as Earth/Shield is T2, so T1 should be a pure Earth type... Junk ____
  192.  
  193. [18:23] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah, that's too bad.
  194.  
  195. [18:23] <@MegaBossMan> I was thinking of some sort of "Junk Fling", where he tosses a piece of garbage at you, but that's not very...Unique.
  196.  
  197. [18:23] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Back.
  198.  
  199. [18:23] <@MegaBossMan> If you guys have any ideas, go ahead.
  200.  
  201. [18:24] <@MegaBossMan> Something revolving around trash.
  202.  
  203. [18:24] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Sorry, Phone call about babysitting niece next weekend.
  204.  
  205. [18:24] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah, that's true.  I was also considering some kind of super-arm clone but that's kind of boring too.
  206.  
  207. [18:24] <@MegaBossMan> Maybe even recycling?
  208.  
  209. [18:24] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh, that sounds interesting.
  210.  
  211. [18:24] <@MegaBossMan> Perhaps this Recycling move could...Do something to the target and heal him?
  212.  
  213. [18:25] <@MegaBossMan> I have no clue, you guys have anything to expand apon this?
  214.  
  215. [18:25] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Let me handle this:
  216.  
  217. [18:25] <@MegaBossMan> *upon
  218.  
  219. [18:25] <@AdrianMarceau> I was thinking it could recycle a used item, maybe?  But then it wouldn't do damage and a T1 without damage is.... I don't know.
  220.  
  221. [18:26] <@MegaBossMan> Then again, we ARE getting a ton of new elemental moves.
  222.  
  223. [18:26] <@AdrianMarceau> It's true.  I'm anxious to start experimenting with movesets.
  224.  
  225. [18:26] <@MegaBossMan> Mike?
  226.  
  227. [18:26] <ThatGuyNamedMike> For Junk's T1, he can use his Junk Stomp move. Makes 3 pieces of Junk fall on the Leader and 2 random allies for moderate Earth Damage.
  228.  
  229. [18:27] <@MegaBossMan> But jumping sprite?
  230.  
  231. [18:27] <ThatGuyNamedMike> He has to jump to use Junk Shield.
  232.  
  233. [18:28] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe we could call it Junk Press instead and have him use the summon frame?
  234.  
  235. [18:28] <@AdrianMarceau> We can't add a jump frame just for one robot.  :|
  236.  
  237. [18:28] <ThatGuyNamedMike> He has to jump on top of [and crush] a junk block.
  238.  
  239. [18:28] <@MegaBossMan> I'm not too sure about this, it really just rings too much of a "Leaf Fall" to be unique to me.
  240.  
  241. [18:28] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Leaf Fall is a Nature Move, though.
  242.  
  243. [18:29] <ThatGuyNamedMike> This is Earth.
  244.  
  245. [18:29] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Also, isn't LEaf Fall attacking FOUR enemies at once?
  246.  
  247. [18:30] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh, I have an idea.   Imagine a move with similar mechanics to Super Arm BUT instead of a singular block you instead add more pieces to it each turn (increasing the protection) up to four blocks before throwing.
  248.  
  249. [18:30] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Only problem; Defense-piercing moves exist.
  250.  
  251. [18:30] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike is right though, we're going to have a lot of clone abilities but just with different types and SLIGHTLY tweaked properties.
  252.  
  253. [18:31] <@AdrianMarceau> That's not a problem, really.  It's just a fact.
  254.  
  255. [18:31] <@MegaBossMan> Of course, but isn't that something we should try to avoid unless absolutely neccessary?
  256.  
  257. [18:31] <@AdrianMarceau> Yes, of course.
  258.  
  259. [18:32] <ThatGuyNamedMike> No, actually.
  260.  
  261. [18:32] <ThatGuyNamedMike> If there's a T1 and a T2 made for every playable, AND boss moves for every boss, there's gonna be a good 500+ moves in this game before all is done.
  262.  
  263. [18:33] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You don't have a choice in the matter. Copies WILL exist.
  264.  
  265. [18:33] <@AdrianMarceau> If we have a better idea and it works out, we'll totally use it.  If not, we can fall back to familiar mechanics from time to time.  I think Smash and Pokemon have shown that even the smallest variation in an ability can drastically change it's use in a fight.
  266.  
  267. [18:33] <ThatGuyNamedMike> ^
  268.  
  269. [18:34] <@MegaBossMan> But we can LIMIT how many copies there can be.
  270.  
  271. [18:34] <@MegaBossMan> Or, at least, avoid copies if there's a better option right in front of us.
  272.  
  273. [18:34] <ThatGuyNamedMike> .....mostly.
  274.  
  275. [18:34] <@AdrianMarceau> :P
  276.  
  277. [18:35] <@MegaBossMan> Just going for the copy option and saying "There's always going to be copies" doesn't mean it's a good thing.
  278.  
  279. [18:35] <@AdrianMarceau> Of course not.  We could debate this all day though.
  280.  
  281. [18:35] <ThatGuyNamedMike> That's not an opinion. That's a fact.
  282.  
  283. [18:35] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Look at PKMN.
  284.  
  285. [18:35] <@MegaBossMan> Of course. Sorry about going a bit off-topic there.
  286.  
  287. [18:35] <@AdrianMarceau> I like the themes of recycling for Junk Man as well as the idea of him dropping junk on the enemy or enemies.  Both are valid options.
  288.  
  289. [18:36] <ThatGuyNamedMike> As a matter of fact,
  290.  
  291. [18:36] <@AdrianMarceau> I wish we could let him fill a "zombie" role and bring something back from the dead, but I can't think of anything.
  292.  
  293. [18:37] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Isn't Freeze and Junk have moves PRECISELY like this in MM7, where they drop stuff from the ceiling.
  294.  
  295. [18:37] <@MegaBossMan> I could see someone like Shade performing a role like that.
  296.  
  297. [18:37] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *Doesn't
  298.  
  299. [18:38] <@MegaBossMan> Of course. A lot of robots do.
  300.  
  301. [18:38] <@MegaBossMan> That doesn't mean every robot gets a Leaf Fall, do they?
  302.  
  303. [18:38] <@MegaBossMan> But I digress.
  304.  
  305. [18:38] <@MegaBossMan> We should probably go on.
  306.  
  307. [18:38] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Why not? Every robot gets a Mecha Support? :P
  308.  
  309. [18:39] <ThatGuyNamedMike> and a Field Support.
  310.  
  311. [18:39] <@AdrianMarceau> I'm kind of leaning toward Mike regarding Freeze and Junk's T1 moves.  I like the idea of having more abilities that strike the bench, and so far there aren't any earth or freeze ones that come to mind.
  312.  
  313. [18:39] <@MegaBossMan> No Freeze encasing then?
  314.  
  315. [18:40] <@AdrianMarceau> I like the idea visually, but I'm not totally comfortable with T1s that do no damage.
  316.  
  317. [18:40] <@AdrianMarceau> Of course... there IS Gemini Man and his "Gemini Clone" T1...
  318.  
  319. [18:40] <ThatGuyNamedMike> See why T3's are needed?
  320.  
  321. [18:40] <@AdrianMarceau> Eventually, yes.
  322.  
  323. [18:41] <@AdrianMarceau> Layers, Mike.  
  324.  
  325. [18:41] <@MegaBossMan> I'm not too big on T3s myself, but I could see it work out.
  326.  
  327. [18:41] <ThatGuyNamedMike> UNIQUE T3's, that is.
  328.  
  329. [18:41] <@AdrianMarceau> It's already pretty annoying that only the MM1 robots have T2s
  330.  
  331. [18:41] <@AdrianMarceau> I want to layer the rest of them with T2s and THEN we can consider T3s
  332.  
  333. [18:41] <@MegaBossMan> Makes Cossack's Chapter 2 a pretty tough battle.
  334.  
  335. [18:42] <@AdrianMarceau> Indeed
  336.  
  337. [18:43] <@MegaBossMan> Any futher discussion about Junk's T1?
  338.  
  339. [18:43] <@AdrianMarceau> Honestly, I'm kind of on the fence about Freeze and Junk, moreso Freeze, but we should move on.  I'll take them both into consideration and "see what happenes".
  340.  
  341. [18:43] <@AdrianMarceau> *happens
  342.  
  343. [18:44] == ThatOneEnderMan [49cbca64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.203.202.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
  344.  
  345. [18:44] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Neeeeeeeeeext!
  346.  
  347. [18:44] <@MegaBossMan> Cloud Man?
  348.  
  349. [18:44] <@AdrianMarceau> Luckly, most of the bots we're discussing are option DLC (MM5+) so their T1s don't necessarily have to follow the damage norm soo....
  350.  
  351. [18:44] <@AdrianMarceau> Sure thing.
  352.  
  353. [18:44] <@AdrianMarceau> Are we looking at the preview link while we're discussing this, btw?
  354.  
  355. [18:44] <@AdrianMarceau> http://rpg.megamanpoweredup.net/images/previews/mmrpg-database_2015-04-05.html
  356.  
  357. [18:45] <@AdrianMarceau> Just to see where everything fits with the most recent revisions.
  358.  
  359. [18:45] <@AdrianMarceau> His Thunder Bolt sounds pretty T1 to me.
  360.  
  361. [18:45] <@AdrianMarceau> So his T2 can be the new one.  Thunder ______
  362.  
  363. [18:45] <@MegaBossMan> You know, I could figure Cloud being a Wind-core...
  364.  
  365. [18:46] <@MegaBossMan> In his battle, he seems to rely on two elements.
  366.  
  367. [18:46] <@AdrianMarceau> I know this is a pretty obvious answer, but does anyone like the idea of Thunder Storm?  Electric / Wind
  368.  
  369. [18:46] <@MegaBossMan> Electricity, which is already covered by T.Bolt, and he also seems to use rain a lot in his battle to baffle the player.
  370.  
  371. [18:46] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah, that's true.  
  372.  
  373. [18:47] <@AdrianMarceau> Electric / Water
  374.  
  375. [18:47] <@AdrianMarceau> What about Toad Man though?  We gave him...
  376.  
  377. [18:47] <@MegaBossMan> Ah, fooey.
  378.  
  379. [18:47] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Cloud
  380.  
  381. [18:47] <@MegaBossMan> As Mikey did say though, we could expect repeats :P
  382.  
  383. [18:47] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe we should swap that?
  384.  
  385. [18:47] <ThatGuyNamedMike> There's no Wind in thunderstorm....at least, not visibly.
  386.  
  387. [18:48] <ThatGuyNamedMike> That's the rain being to blasted stubborn.
  388.  
  389. [18:48] <@AdrianMarceau> Electric / Water feels a lot more appropriate for Cloud Man...
  390.  
  391. [18:48] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *too
  392.  
  393. [18:48] <@MegaBossMan> Wind/Electric though, does fit in with the whole "Cloud" motif.
  394.  
  395. [18:48] <@AdrianMarceau> I agree Mike, I was just trying to avoid Electric/Water again (but it didn't work, lol)
  396.  
  397. [18:48] == ThatOneEnderMan [49cbca64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.203.202.100] has joined #mmrpg
  398.  
  399. [18:49] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh!
  400.  
  401. [18:49] <@MegaBossMan> I'm not bothered by repeat Dual-cores, honestly.
  402.  
  403. [18:49] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe we can discard the whole electricity thing for Toad Man
  404.  
  405. [18:50] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, sure.
  406.  
  407. [18:50] <@MegaBossMan> Didn't like his T2 too much anyway.
  408.  
  409. [18:50] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Flush is supposed to be acidic.. right?
  410.  
  411. [18:50] <@MegaBossMan> Yep.
  412.  
  413. [18:50] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Yeah.
  414.  
  415. [18:50] <@AdrianMarceau> Could we maybe do something with poison / toxic rain and pull a Water / Shadow or is that too much?
  416.  
  417. [18:50] <@MegaBossMan> So, you're suggesting Rain Flush as the T2?
  418.  
  419. [18:50] <@MegaBossMan> Water/Shadow....
  420.  
  421. [18:51] <@MegaBossMan> Now, that's a unique typing
  422.  
  423. [18:51] <@MegaBossMan> And I like it!
  424.  
  425. [18:51] <@AdrianMarceau> Venom Snake is Nature / Shadow so I think it represents poison adequately
  426.  
  427. [18:51] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Sounds like something Splash Woman would pull. x)
  428.  
  429. [18:51] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Water/Shadow
  430.  
  431. [18:51] <@MegaBossMan> Really? Splash? Never saw her that way.
  432.  
  433. [18:52] <@AdrianMarceau> Her T2 is Water / Laser
  434.  
  435. [18:52] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  436.  
  437. [18:52] <@AdrianMarceau> I was actually suggesting something else be the T2 bossman.  I more intense version of the Rain Flush...
  438.  
  439. [18:53] <@AdrianMarceau> But you're probably right.
  440.  
  441. [18:53] <@AdrianMarceau> It wouldn't make sense to have two screen-clearing moves for him.
  442.  
  443. [18:53] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, I'm more into Rain Flush T2.
  444.  
  445. [18:53] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Question:
  446.  
  447. [18:54] <@AdrianMarceau> The only thing... "Rain Flush" doesn't sound very toxic on its own.
  448.  
  449. [18:54] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You're a against T1 moves that do no damage, but, what about T1 moves that do no damage, but inflict statuses?
  450.  
  451. [18:54] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe Rain Flush is still the everyone-hitting Water type T1.... and then "Toxic Rain" is a single-target Water / Shadow type T2?
  452.  
  453. [18:54] <@MegaBossMan> Hmmm...
  454.  
  455. [18:55] <@AdrianMarceau> I'd be open to that, Mike.  Providing it's a status that the game supports.
  456.  
  457. [18:55] <@MegaBossMan> Thing is, would Toxic Rain hitting one target really make sense?
  458.  
  459. [18:55] <@AdrianMarceau> If the user summoned a small cloud above the target, yes, but maybe you're right.... feels like a step down.
  460.  
  461. [18:55] <@MegaBossMan> Makes me think of the cartoony cloud above a depressed character.
  462.  
  463. [18:56] <ThatGuyNamedMike> 'cause I wanna harken to Toad's MMBN2/5 counterpart and suggest ToadMan.exe's Croak attack, only instead of doing damage, it just stuns the leader for X Turns.
  464.  
  465. [18:56] <@MegaBossMan> Reminds me of that one idea someone suggested for Toad.
  466.  
  467. [18:57] <@AdrianMarceau> I like that option too, Mike.  Honestly it seems like a Water / Electric type given the source... but maybe it could work.
  468.  
  469. [18:57] <@MegaBossMan> Like I said, repeated Dual-cores aren't a problem for me.
  470.  
  471. [18:57] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah we did discuss it before, don't remember if we discussed a name.
  472.  
  473. [18:58] <@MegaBossMan> Thing is, Toad.EXE and Toad are really..Only similiar in name only.
  474.  
  475. [18:58] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Song?
  476.  
  477. [18:58] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, that was the one!
  478.  
  479. [18:58] <@AdrianMarceau> Yes, very true.  Toad.EXE is electric type no?
  480.  
  481. [18:58] <@AdrianMarceau> I like the sound of Rain Dance, though I'm not sure what it would do.
  482.  
  483. [18:58] <@MegaBossMan> Heh, Rain Dance. I like that.
  484.  
  485. [18:58] <@AdrianMarceau> If Field Support didn't exist it could play with the multipliers.
  486.  
  487. [18:59] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Could be Toad's T3?
  488.  
  489. [18:59] <@MegaBossMan> T3s are for later.
  490.  
  491. [18:59] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Plays with the Multipliers HARD?
  492.  
  493. [19:00] <@MegaBossMan> Perhaps an attack that boosts Rain Flush up a bit more?
  494.  
  495. [19:00] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Dance could maybe do something else for other Water Cores instead?
  496.  
  497. [19:00] <@MegaBossMan> I mean, Rain Flush can't be boosted from SF in the future.
  498.  
  499. [19:01] <@AdrianMarceau> True
  500.  
  501. [19:01] <@MegaBossMan> Plus, it's actually a bit weak now.
  502.  
  503. [19:01] <@AdrianMarceau> Because SF is no longer percent based
  504.  
  505. [19:01] <@MegaBossMan> Took me 10 turns to take out one Bright Man, even now.
  506.  
  507. [19:01] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah, I promise you guys that once the update is out Starforce will NOT seem like such a big deal.
  508.  
  509. [19:02] <@MegaBossMan> I hope that even if Rain Dance doesn't get in, you boost Rain Flush a bit more.
  510.  
  511. [19:02] <@AdrianMarceau> Even the most powerful of elements only benefit from a 1089 point boost to the user's attack stat - that's NOTHING with some robots having almost 9999 attack already.
  512.  
  513. [19:03] <@AdrianMarceau> Would you guys be okay with a Rain Dance that's completely support-based?
  514.  
  515. [19:03] == PhantomMan [b89b4b80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.155.75.128] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  516.  
  517. [19:03]  * MegaBossMan puts thumbs-up
  518.  
  519. [19:03] == MetaKirbSter [ad50f552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.80.245.82] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  520.  
  521. [19:03] <@AdrianMarceau> Forget about Field Support - that will have it's own set of changes - let's just see what the best options are for each ability.
  522.  
  523. [19:03] <ThatGuyNamedMike> ^
  524.  
  525. [19:04] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Dance increases the multiplier by some amount (which DOES affect Rain Flush) and then heals any Water type robots on the field?
  526.  
  527. [19:04] <@AdrianMarceau> Or something like similar?
  528.  
  529. [19:04] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, alright.
  530.  
  531. [19:05] <@MegaBossMan> So, the second-typing is-?
  532.  
  533. [19:05] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Dance would theoretically take 8 WE base but only 2 WE for Toad Man so it can be used easily and often.
  534.  
  535. [19:05] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe there is no second typing?  Just pure water type?
  536.  
  537. [19:05] <ThatGuyNamedMike> It needs a 2nd type?
  538.  
  539. [19:05] <ThatGuyNamedMike> x0
  540.  
  541. [19:05] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *x)
  542.  
  543. [19:05] <@AdrianMarceau> I mean, we COULD give it Electric just for the sake of spreading it around.
  544.  
  545. [19:06] <@AdrianMarceau> Could pretend it's cloud based or something
  546.  
  547. [19:06] <@AdrianMarceau> But I like single typed just as much.
  548.  
  549. [19:06] <@AdrianMarceau> Rising Cutter, Danger Bomb, and a few other T2s are pure types so it's happened before.
  550.  
  551. [19:07] <@MegaBossMan> Sure, no second-typing.
  552.  
  553. [19:07] <@AdrianMarceau> Rain Dance!!!!
  554.  
  555. [19:07]  * MegaBossMan gives thumbs-up
  556.  
  557. [19:07] <@MegaBossMan> So, um...Back to Cloud Man?
  558.  
  559. [19:07] <@AdrianMarceau> Boosts the field multiplier and heals any Water Core robots on the field.  Sound good?
  560.  
  561. [19:07] <@MegaBossMan> Yep.
  562.  
  563. [19:07] <@MegaBossMan> I hope we didn't forget about Cloud, did we?
  564.  
  565. [19:08] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh!  Instead of (or in addition to) life energy... maybe it also restores weapon energy of those Water Cores?
  566.  
  567. [19:08] <@MegaBossMan> Ooooooh
  568.  
  569. [19:08] <@MegaBossMan> I love it!
  570.  
  571. [19:08] <@MegaBossMan> Maybe not TOO much though.
  572.  
  573. [19:09] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I prefer one or the other. It's gonna shatter Toad even more if that get's tacked on him.
  574.  
  575. [19:09] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *gets
  576.  
  577. [19:09] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Either it should heal or mess with multipliers.
  578.  
  579. [19:09] <@MegaBossMan> I could go for no multipliers.
  580.  
  581. [19:09] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Actually,
  582.  
  583. [19:09] <@AdrianMarceau> Okay, given that, let's (briefly) discuss possible numbers - boosts the field multiplier for water by 10%, life energy by 10%, and weapon energy by 10%.  All relatively low numbers but spread over multiple bots.
  584.  
  585. [19:10] <ThatGuyNamedMike> It should mess with multipliers, because most bots alreadt have either an affinity or immunity to water attacks as it is.
  586.  
  587. [19:10] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *most water
  588.  
  589. [19:10] <ThatGuyNamedMike> **most water bots
  590.  
  591. [19:10] <@AdrianMarceau> Water +10%, Flame -10%, LE and WE + 10%?
  592.  
  593. [19:10] <@AdrianMarceau> I really liked the idea of recoverying WE at least
  594.  
  595. [19:11] <@MegaBossMan> Would giving Roll a Water-core allow her to be benefitted from this too?
  596.  
  597. [19:11] <@AdrianMarceau> He's basically giving them ammo
  598.  
  599. [19:11] <@MegaBossMan> Just making sure.
  600.  
  601. [19:11] <@MegaBossMan> I would assume not, but asking never hurt anyone, right?
  602.  
  603. [19:11] <@AdrianMarceau> She'd benefit from the field multiplier when she uses her attacks, but NOT the LE/WE because she's technically not a Water Core (she's just holding one)
  604.  
  605. [19:11] <@MegaBossMan> Alrighty, thanks for clearing it up.
  606.  
  607. [19:12] <@AdrianMarceau> I don't think the LE/WE healing is that big of a deal.  At most you'll be healing 2 robots on your bench until the MM5+ updates
  608.  
  609. [19:12] <@AdrianMarceau> Right?  Just Bubble and Toad?
  610.  
  611. [19:12] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, I agree.
  612.  
  613. [19:12] <@MegaBossMan> How would it look visually?
  614.  
  615. [19:12] <@MegaBossMan> [Oh, and the Copy-cores if we go with Reisrat's idea]
  616.  
  617. [19:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Probably just the summon sprite and some rain effects
  618.  
  619. [19:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Yes, I think I will go with Reisrat's idea.  Makes things more flexible.
  620.  
  621. [19:13] <@MegaBossMan> So, five bots then?
  622.  
  623. [19:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Okay so if that is settled....
  624.  
  625. [19:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Cloud Man can easily have Thunder Cloud or Thunder Storm
  626.  
  627. [19:13] <@MegaBossMan> Yep.
  628.  
  629. [19:13] <@AdrianMarceau> Electric / Water
  630.  
  631. [19:14] <@MegaBossMan> I would think it wouldn't damage anyone outright.
  632.  
  633. [19:14] <@MegaBossMan> In the battle, he seems to use it for baffling the player.
  634.  
  635. [19:14] <@AdrianMarceau> I think Thunder Storm would work better as it implies hitting multiple targets.
  636.  
  637. [19:14] <@AdrianMarceau> Oh yeah?  
  638.  
  639. [19:14] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe I should watch a video of it.
  640.  
  641. [19:14] <@MegaBossMan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oFaU7bxgY
  642.  
  643. [19:15] <@MegaBossMan> Don't know if it's safe for work or not, mute it just in case.
  644.  
  645. [19:15] <@MegaBossMan> That's how I've been watchingit .
  646.  
  647. [19:15] <@MegaBossMan> Wait a sec...
  648.  
  649. [19:15] <@MegaBossMan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5vkevMPmXI
  650.  
  651. [19:15] <@MegaBossMan> Oopsie.
  652.  
  653. [19:16] <@MegaBossMan> Battle begins at 4:19.
  654.  
  655. [19:16] <@AdrianMarceau> Ha, that was Burst
  656.  
  657. [19:16] <@MegaBossMan> I was making up future abilities, sorry.
  658.  
  659. [19:16] <@MegaBossMan> [Oh, and don't forget to mute it]
  660.  
  661. [19:17] <@AdrianMarceau> I don't think we'll be able to use it as it appears in the game... no way to show that pushing or pulling.
  662.  
  663. [19:17] <@MegaBossMan> Thought Magnet had something like that as a T1.
  664.  
  665. [19:17] <@AdrianMarceau> I'd like for it to do damage so that the Electric / Water has a purpose
  666.  
  667. [19:18] <@AdrianMarceau> We could have another hit everyone or hit random targets, and while I know it sounds like we're using that too much electricity IS pretty erratic and it makes a lot of sense.
  668.  
  669. [19:18] <@MegaBossMan> Random, please.
  670.  
  671. [19:19] <@AdrianMarceau> That he would summon a Thunder Storm and it would hit random targets with lightning while it rains.
  672.  
  673. [19:19] <@MegaBossMan> The problem with random targets is bench-damage.
  674.  
  675. [19:19] <@MegaBossMan> At least, I think.
  676.  
  677. [19:19] <@AdrianMarceau> Well, it's not a problem per-se.  Just a risk.
  678.  
  679. [19:20] <@MegaBossMan> Eh, can't exactly agree.
  680.  
  681. [19:20] <@MegaBossMan> Say, Adrian....
  682.  
  683. [19:20] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah?
  684.  
  685. [19:20] <@MegaBossMan> How hard would it be to negate bench damage for certain attacks?
  686.  
  687. [19:20] <@MegaBossMan> I'd imagine pretty difficult, right?
  688.  
  689. [19:20] <@AdrianMarceau> You mean like, turning off the multiplier for that attack?
  690.  
  691. [19:20] <@AdrianMarceau> (the bench multiplier)?
  692.  
  693. [19:20] <@MegaBossMan> Yes.
  694.  
  695. [19:21] <@AdrianMarceau> No, actually.  There's already a flag for that.  It defaults to "true" so the bench multiplier is always considered, but it's possible for me to pass in an additional argument and poof - no more bench modifier.
  696.  
  697. [19:21] <@AdrianMarceau> That might be great for this ability, actually.
  698.  
  699. [19:21] <@MegaBossMan> Bingo :)
  700.  
  701. [19:21] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Heh.
  702.  
  703. [19:22] <@AdrianMarceau> The damage isn't coming from Cloud Man far away, it's coming from above in the sky.
  704.  
  705. [19:22] <@MegaBossMan> [I'm glad you saw where I was going with that]
  706.  
  707. [19:22] <@AdrianMarceau> I did.  I've already had a use that flag a few times for other abilities, so it's no trouble.
  708.  
  709. [19:22] <@AdrianMarceau> I should make some documentation of all available mechanics at some point.  So you guys know what we can play with.
  710.  
  711. [19:23] <@MegaBossMan> That'd be nice.
  712.  
  713. [19:23] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Pleaseandthankyou.
  714.  
  715. [19:23] <@AdrianMarceau> Actually, I plan to have the code publicly available at some point so maybe that will suffice.
  716.  
  717. [19:23] <@AdrianMarceau> But it wouldn't make sense to do that until this update is complete at least.
  718.  
  719. [19:23] <ThatGuyNamedMike> ^
  720.  
  721. [19:23] <@MegaBossMan> Only reason I suggested that was because of a moveset that I made in "Make-a-bio."
  722.  
  723. [19:23] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah
  724.  
  725. [19:24] <@MegaBossMan> Always liked the idea of that attack, it stuck with me.
  726.  
  727. [19:24] <@MegaBossMan> Propeller Knight, to be exact.
  728.  
  729. [19:24] <@AdrianMarceau> Alright, so Cloud Man summons a storm that deal water/electric damage to randomized targets.  The damage is not affected by the bench modifier as it's special gimmick.  How many randoms, btw?
  730.  
  731. [19:25] <ThatGuyNamedMike> 2.
  732.  
  733. [19:25] <@MegaBossMan> 3 or 4.
  734.  
  735. [19:25] <@AdrianMarceau> Should it just go one-by-one with 50% change of strike or pick 3 randoms or... ?
  736.  
  737. [19:25] <@MegaBossMan> 3 randoms.
  738.  
  739. [19:25] <ThatGuyNamedMike> That's how many bolts move along the ground.
  740.  
  741. [19:25] <ThatGuyNamedMike> ...at you.
  742.  
  743. [19:25] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike is right that he only sends out two....
  744.  
  745. [19:25] <@AdrianMarceau> Though I do love the number three...
  746.  
  747. [19:25] <@AdrianMarceau> Haha
  748.  
  749. [19:26] <@MegaBossMan> Maybe Cloud Man has been working out?
  750.  
  751. [19:26] <ThatGuyNamedMike> 2.5! x)
  752.  
  753. [19:26] <@MegaBossMan> Then again, he IS a couch potato.
  754.  
  755. [19:26] <@AdrianMarceau> Okay, we'll have two.
  756.  
  757. [19:26] <@AdrianMarceau> If the target only has one robot active... would both bolts hit that one robot?
  758.  
  759. [19:26] <@MegaBossMan> I'd imagine so.
  760.  
  761. [19:27] <@AdrianMarceau> I think it would be a nice compromise.
  762.  
  763. [19:27] <@AdrianMarceau> I think that would be cooler if there were three, but I know Mike's a purist. ;)
  764.  
  765. [19:27] <@MegaBossMan> I'm more for three, honestly.
  766.  
  767. [19:28] <@MegaBossMan> Two seems too small for me, but who am I to argue?
  768.  
  769. [19:28] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah, two feels underwhelming for a T2
  770.  
  771. [19:28] <@MegaBossMan> ....Although, he does shoot out four at one point.
  772.  
  773. [19:28] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Not completely, but, this IS only a T2. It's gonna be doing quite the damage, already, seeing as this is a MM7 RM.
  774.  
  775. [19:28] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike, can we do three?  Pleeeeease?
  776.  
  777. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> Pretty-please?
  778.  
  779. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> With a cherry on top?
  780.  
  781. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> And a....How does that go again?
  782.  
  783. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> I mean, he shoots out two, he shoots out four...
  784.  
  785. [19:29] <@AdrianMarceau> Each strike does 12 damage or 36 to a single robot when they're all added up?
  786.  
  787. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> What's in between 2 and four?
  788.  
  789. [19:29] <@MegaBossMan> Whole number, that is.
  790.  
  791. [19:30] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Well, technically, Thunder Bolts send 4 spars total when they hit the ground, 2 in every direction, so you could actually make an argument for an attack that hits 2 of theirs AND 2 of yours.
  792.  
  793. [19:30] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *4 sparks
  794.  
  795. [19:30] <@AdrianMarceau> Well that's just mean.  :P
  796.  
  797. [19:30] <@MegaBossMan> Cloud Man wouldn't be affected by it though.
  798.  
  799. [19:30] <ThatGuyNamedMike> and Danger Bomb isn't?
  800.  
  801. [19:30] <@MegaBossMan> Means that he gets off scot-free, right?
  802.  
  803. [19:30] <@AdrianMarceau> It does much more damage than this would and hits all bench on both sides.
  804.  
  805. [19:30] <@MegaBossMan> Still, Danger Bomb is worth the power.
  806.  
  807. [19:30] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Well, duh.
  808.  
  809. [19:31] <@MegaBossMan> Two dinky little sparks?
  810.  
  811. [19:31] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Not ALL, just 2.
  812.  
  813. [19:31] <@MegaBossMan> Not so much.
  814.  
  815. [19:31] <@AdrianMarceau> BossMan, are you okay with four?
  816.  
  817. [19:31] <@AdrianMarceau> He technically sends four in that video - two and then two again.
  818.  
  819. [19:31] <@MegaBossMan> Didn't I suggest four?
  820.  
  821. [19:31] <@AdrianMarceau> Yeah, I guess you did.  I'm the three freak.
  822.  
  823. [19:31] <@AdrianMarceau> Three doctors, three primary stats, three etc. etc.
  824.  
  825. [19:31] <@MegaBossMan> Well, honestly, I like the number three.
  826.  
  827. [19:32] <@MegaBossMan> And it makes sense to me in this situation.
  828.  
  829. [19:32] <@MegaBossMan> Two seems too little, four might be pushing it.
  830.  
  831. [19:32] <@MegaBossMan> What's between two and four again, though?
  832.  
  833. [19:32] <@AdrianMarceau> Three, I think.
  834.  
  835. [19:32] <@MegaBossMan> Bam.
  836.  
  837. [19:32] <ThatGuyNamedMike> x)
  838.  
  839. [19:32] <@AdrianMarceau> Lol.
  840.  
  841. [19:33] <@MegaBossMan> Ooh, Tails might come in.
  842.  
  843. [19:33] <@AdrianMarceau> Three random targets.  Maybe 20 damage each hit (for a total of 60 if fighting one-on-one)?  Or is that too much for a T2?
  844.  
  845. [19:34] <ThatGuyNamedMike> 18 per hit. This is a double-element, after all.
  846.  
  847. [19:34] <@AdrianMarceau> I'm gonna be eating dinner in a bit, btw.  Maybe 10 - 15 mins?  I can come back afterward but if you want to wrap this up I'm willing to stop talking about Cloud and get a few more ideas from you guys.
  848.  
  849. [19:34] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah, true Mike.
  850.  
  851. [19:34] <@MegaBossMan> Yeah, we made quite a bit of progress.
  852.  
  853. [19:34] <@MegaBossMan> Mike, your ideas?
  854.  
  855. [19:34] <@MegaBossMan> ....Or none this week?
  856.  
  857. [19:35] <@AdrianMarceau> Maybe 18 is even too much.  Look at some of the others like Rising Cutter and Thunder Beam.
  858.  
  859. [19:35] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Well, I did have ONE idea to toss around, today, actually, but, it merits a whole discussion on it: What if the game only allowed you to collect and maintain a certain number of Star Force at one time, saaaaay, 2,500-ish?
  860.  
  861. [19:35] == TailsMK4 [421984a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.25.132.166] has joined #mmrpg
  862.  
  863. [19:35] <@AdrianMarceau> 12 is probably the most fair in retrospect... Sorry I'll stop.  XD
  864.  
  865. [19:35] <ThatGuyNamedMike> This'll make even MORE diversity for PB's.
  866.  
  867. [19:35] <@MegaBossMan> Someone pick up the phone, cause I calledi t.
  868.  
  869. [19:36] <TailsMK4> Ah, the session is still going?
  870.  
  871. [19:36] <@MegaBossMan> I like 15.
  872.  
  873. [19:36] <@AdrianMarceau> Lol
  874.  
  875. [19:36] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Yeppers, Tails.
  876.  
  877. [19:36] <@MegaBossMan> That adds up to 45, which isn't too bad.
  878.  
  879. [19:36] <@AdrianMarceau> So you want players to select specific starforce from their entire collection to bring into battle?  Instead of having them all active at once?
  880.  
  881. [19:36] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Although, Adrian might have to leave in a bit.
  882.  
  883. [19:36] <TailsMK4> Honestly thought I'd be gone longer, but I guess not.
  884.  
  885. [19:37] <@MegaBossMan> I could disagree on that.
  886.  
  887. [19:37] == MetaKirbSter [ad50f552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.80.245.82] has joined #mmrpg
  888.  
  889. [19:37] <@AdrianMarceau> I honestly feel like you're going to change your mind about that suggestion once you play the new version.  Starforce does NOT feel overpowered.
  890.  
  891. [19:37] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Actually, only allow player to obtain a maximum of 2,500 Stars of their choosing. Of any combination.
  892.  
  893. [19:37] <TailsMK4> Wait, selecting only a certain amount of Starforce to bring into battle?
  894.  
  895. [19:37] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You wanna have 2,500 Cutter Stars, you get that at the risk of making all your other types weak as heck.
  896.  
  897. [19:37] <@MegaBossMan> We should make a "No-starforce until you play the Update" rule. Heh.
  898.  
  899. [19:37] <@AdrianMarceau> If we did that, the boost would be pretty insignificant.
  900.  
  901. [19:38] <TailsMK4> Plus what would be the point of collecting the Starforce in the first place when like 90% of it just sits there?
  902.  
  903. [19:38] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  904.  
  905. [19:38] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *75
  906.  
  907. [19:38] <TailsMK4> Hey, I joined in the middle of the discussion. You can excuse my lack of knowledge about stats. :P
  908.  
  909. [19:38] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Because there's 10,000 of them when this game is done, and overall, they faver Flame, Cutter and Electric.
  910.  
  911. [19:39] <TailsMK4> Electric will be the largest. I counted.
  912.  
  913. [19:39] <ThatGuyNamedMike> The other type, ESPECIALLY Shield, WILL be neglected by them.
  914.  
  915. [19:39] <@MegaBossMan> Are you including Stardroids?
  916.  
  917. [19:39] <TailsMK4> Did not count Stardroids, even then they add 1 to almost every element.
  918.  
  919. [19:39] <@MegaBossMan> @Mike
  920.  
  921. [19:39] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Should I? It'll be more like 12k or 13k if we add them.
  922.  
  923. [19:40] <@AdrianMarceau> You should not count Stardroids
  924.  
  925. [19:40] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  926.  
  927. [19:40] <@AdrianMarceau> their stages will not be unlockable for the purposes of Starforce
  928.  
  929. [19:40] <TailsMK4> They're bosses, iirc.
  930.  
  931. [19:40] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Then, it's around 10k.
  932.  
  933. [19:40] <@AdrianMarceau> In fact, looking at this and removing the 6 hero robots there will only be 96 fields capable of creating starforce : http://rpg.megamanpoweredup.net/images/previews/mmrpg-database_2015-04-05.html
  934.  
  935. [19:40] <@MegaBossMan> Adrian seems to say that SF has balanced itself, and since he has played the Update more than us....
  936.  
  937. [19:41] <TailsMK4> I trust Adrian's judgment on this. The math adds up, imo.
  938.  
  939. [19:41] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Some Types are still way more neglected than others.
  940.  
  941. [19:41] <TailsMK4> Equal amount of Attack versus Defense.
  942.  
  943. [19:41] == MetaKirbSter [ad50f552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.80.245.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
  944.  
  945. [19:41] <@AdrianMarceau> Well, think of it this way.  The most powerful type at the end of the game will be Electric, right?
  946.  
  947. [19:41] <@MegaBossMan> You're forgetting about COLLECTING 10,000 STARS.
  948.  
  949. [19:41] <TailsMK4> That's because some elements are represented more with the robots in the game.
  950.  
  951. [19:42] <ThatGuyNamedMike> We already have 1,024, buddy. :P
  952.  
  953. [19:42] <@MegaBossMan> I repeat, 10,000.
  954.  
  955. [19:42] <ThatGuyNamedMike> 9,000 more ain't nothing.
  956.  
  957. [19:42] <@MegaBossMan> Mike, not everyone has as much time as you.
  958.  
  959. [19:42] <ThatGuyNamedMike> They're tedious, but, that's it.
  960.  
  961. [19:42] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You assume that you NEED time to get these:
  962.  
  963. [19:43] <@MegaBossMan> Heck, only 8 people have got 1024.
  964.  
  965. [19:43] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I got mine in my first THREE WEEKS here.
  966.  
  967. [19:43] <@AdrianMarceau> An overpowered type like electric will have equal resistance on the opposing side in PBs (bringing the net effect down to zero).  The same is true even for neglected types.
  968.  
  969. [19:43] <@MegaBossMan> I doubt the rest of the players will suddenly decide to get all 10,000 of them.
  970.  
  971. [19:43] <TailsMK4> So anyway, I responded to your PM, Adrian. I guess I could have just replied to you in the update thread instead, but I wanted to get your input first, since ultimately you're the one doing the AI.
  972.  
  973. [19:43] <@AdrianMarceau> So two players with 1024 will have the same balance as two players with 10,000
  974.  
  975. [19:44] <@MegaBossMan> Plus, major story battles do have Dark Towers.
  976.  
  977. [19:44] <@AdrianMarceau> True
  978.  
  979. [19:44] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You assume that those two players will bring the EXACT same robots.
  980.  
  981. [19:44] <TailsMK4> Robots don't matter.
  982.  
  983. [19:44] <@MegaBossMan> ....What?
  984.  
  985. [19:45] <@AdrianMarceau> Tails is right.
  986.  
  987. [19:45] <ThatGuyNamedMike> That's gonna be impossible when you don't know what the other team even IS.
  988.  
  989. [19:45] <TailsMK4> Starforce also raises Defense against said element, so the Defense is the same regardless if you bring robots of 8 types or 8 Cutters.
  990.  
  991. [19:45] <TailsMK4> The only thing that changes is resistance.
  992.  
  993. [19:45] <TailsMK4> And that's core gameplay, nothing to do with Starforce.
  994.  
  995. [19:46] <@MegaBossMan> [Can I call TheDoc next?]
  996.  
  997. [19:46] <@AdrianMarceau> In a one-on-one where both players have all stars, you bring your Fire Man and he benefits from +1890 Attack when he uses his Fire Storm.  The target only has a Roll, but Roll still benefits from the +1890 Defense when she defends against Fire Storm.  All starforce mods are totally cancelled out.
  998.  
  999. [19:46] <ThatGuyNamedMike> Defense isn't the same if you bring 8 types, because all 8 of those types have a different number of available Stars.
  1000.  
  1001. [19:46] <TailsMK4> As for what to do with unknown teams, be prepared for as many possible combinations as you can.
  1002.  
  1003. [19:47] <TailsMK4> The only thing really you know ahead of time is what the Support robot is, since they have a different label than the rest of the robots.
  1004.  
  1005. [19:47] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I thought Neutrals don't get any support from the Sf?
  1006.  
  1007. [19:47] <TailsMK4> They get the Defense boost.
  1008.  
  1009. [19:47] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike, you misunderstand the very foundation of this mechanic! :P
  1010.  
  1011. [19:47] <TailsMK4> I think they would also get the boost if they use a Core?
  1012.  
  1013. [19:47] <@MegaBossMan> Still a defense boost.
  1014.  
  1015. [19:47] <TailsMK4> *the Attack boost
  1016.  
  1017. [19:47] <@MegaBossMan> Gotta know your material, man!
  1018.  
  1019. [19:48] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike, you have all the starforce, correct?  Every single one of your robots benefits from the Attack AND Defense boosts granted by those stars.
  1020.  
  1021. [19:48] <ThatGuyNamedMike> The very foundation of this mechanic is flawed beyond belief; you said so, yourself. :P
  1022.  
  1023. [19:48] <TailsMK4> Hence adding Defense to Starforce also allows the Support robots to benefit from Starforce.
  1024.  
  1025. [19:49] <@MegaBossMan> Waah?
  1026.  
  1027. [19:49] <@AdrianMarceau> It was.  But you need to keep up!  That's just how it goes when you're involved with an in-development game. Constant revisions.
  1028.  
  1029. [19:49] <@MegaBossMan> He was talking about the previous foundation.
  1030.  
  1031. [19:49] <@MegaBossMan> This is a new house.
  1032.  
  1033. [19:49] <TailsMK4> A mechanic can be flawed, and may forever be flawed due to the nature of programming. But it can be made better.
  1034.  
  1035. [19:49] <@AdrianMarceau> I think Mike is having a hard time understanding because he's unable to "forget everything you knew" and start fresh with the idea.
  1036.  
  1037. [19:49] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  1038.  
  1039. [19:50] <TailsMK4> Heck, this chat likely has many bugs we are not aware of.
  1040.  
  1041. [19:50] <ThatGuyNamedMike> It's not that. I'm just seeing the exact same problems that the onld one had carry over all over again.
  1042.  
  1043. [19:50] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *old one had
  1044.  
  1045. [19:50] <@AdrianMarceau> @Mike : even if you bring only Neutral core robots into battle, they would still benefit from the Defense boost that starforce grants to each type/
  1046.  
  1047. [19:50] <@MegaBossMan> But you're confusing the two.
  1048.  
  1049. [19:50] <@AdrianMarceau> He is.
  1050.  
  1051. [19:50] <ThatGuyNamedMike> But, there's no Neutral Star Force, so how do they get defense?
  1052.  
  1053. [19:51] <@AdrianMarceau> Ah, I understand why you're confused.
  1054.  
  1055. [19:51] <TailsMK4> Defense from elements, Mike.
  1056.  
  1057. [19:51] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  1058.  
  1059. [19:51] <@AdrianMarceau> If Roll is hit by a Flame type ability, the ONLY starforce that matters is Flame type starforce.
  1060.  
  1061. [19:51] <TailsMK4> ^
  1062.  
  1063. [19:51] <@MegaBossMan> If you have the same amount, they end up negating.
  1064.  
  1065. [19:52] <TailsMK4> And the attack does the damage like the ability was not boosted at all.
  1066.  
  1067. [19:52] <@MegaBossMan> Bam, back to the original, non-boosted value.
  1068.  
  1069. [19:52] <ThatGuyNamedMike> But, didn't that only apply if she was HOLDING Flame Starforce?
  1070.  
  1071. [19:52] <TailsMK4> No, if you have the Starforce on your file.
  1072.  
  1073. [19:52] <@AdrianMarceau> Because there are no Neutral stars, Neutral is the only type that can not be boosted OR resisted with starforce.
  1074.  
  1075. [19:52] <@MegaBossMan> Do you mean the holding mechanic, cause you can't carry a star.
  1076.  
  1077. [19:52] <@AdrianMarceau> Correct, you cannot.
  1078.  
  1079. [19:53] <TailsMK4> Think about this for a second, Mikey...with Defense on Starforce, Neutral abilities suddenly become MORE valuable.
  1080.  
  1081. [19:53] <@MegaBossMan> *fireworks explode*
  1082.  
  1083. [19:53] <TailsMK4> Suddenly Proto Strike becomes a decent option.
  1084.  
  1085. [19:53] <@AdrianMarceau> Mike, imagine this.
  1086.  
  1087. [19:53] <@AdrianMarceau> You have no stars in your file at all.
  1088.  
  1089. [19:53] <@AdrianMarceau> You get one Flame Star.
  1090.  
  1091. [19:53] <TailsMK4> And heck, those abilities become more valuable if your opponent has more Stars than you.
  1092.  
  1093. [19:53] <@MegaBossMan> ^
  1094.  
  1095. [19:54] <ThatGuyNamedMike> ....you've actually succeeded in ALMOST making my brain explode, guys. If there's no Neutral Star Force, and no buffers for Neutrals, and if they can't hold any Stars, then......how do they get beefed up defense?
  1096.  
  1097. [19:54] <@MegaBossMan> Because that's the way the world spins.
  1098.  
  1099. [19:54] <@AdrianMarceau> A very feint aura suddenly surrounds ALLLLLL your robots that both increases Attack when using Flame moves and increases Defense when defending against them.  Not every robot will be able to USE Flame moves and not every robot will need to defense against them, but they will all technically have that starforce on their side.
  1100.  
  1101. [19:54] <@MegaBossMan> More Flame Starforce, extra defense for everyro bot.
  1102.  
  1103. [19:54] <TailsMK4> Cause they HAVE the Starforce on their file. ANY COLLECTED Starforce automatically boosts Defense against said element as well.
  1104.  
  1105. [19:55] <@MegaBossMan> Oh my, that definition is perfect.
  1106.  
  1107. [19:55] <ThatGuyNamedMike> So, it's like Coreforce, basically.
  1108.  
  1109. [19:55] <TailsMK4> You could say that.
  1110.  
  1111. [19:55] <ThatGuyNamedMike> And corforce was broken beyond belief.
  1112.  
  1113. [19:55] <@MegaBossMan> I am being careful with what I answer with.
  1114.  
  1115. [19:55] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *coreforce
  1116.  
  1117. [19:55] <TailsMK4> *Coreguard
  1118.  
  1119. [19:55] <@MegaBossMan> Dang it, he did it again!
  1120.  
  1121. [19:55] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *coreguard, thanks, Tails.
  1122.  
  1123. [19:55] <TailsMK4> You still failed. lol
  1124.  
  1125. [19:56] <TailsMK4> Nvm
  1126.  
  1127. [19:56] <@AdrianMarceau> It's a combination of what starforce used to be and what coreguard almost was, but more refined and much simpler to understand (providing you're to mixing it with other ideas and mechanics in your head).
  1128.  
  1129. [19:56] <@MegaBossMan> Coreguard was a percent, this is not.
  1130.  
  1131. [19:56] <ThatGuyNamedMike> simpler? xD
  1132.  
  1133. [19:56] <TailsMK4> It is simplier.
  1134.  
  1135. [19:56] <@MegaBossMan> Makes all the difference.
  1136.  
  1137. [19:56] <TailsMK4> *simpler
  1138.  
  1139. [19:56] <@AdrianMarceau> *not
  1140.  
  1141. [19:56] <@MegaBossMan> Much simpler, but it's a foreign concept compared to the old.
  1142.  
  1143. [19:57] <TailsMK4> Starforce: Raises elemental attack power with said element and raises elemental defense against said element. Any questions?
  1144.  
  1145. [19:57] <@AdrianMarceau> If Mike can accept the fact that cores are just items like bolts and capsules and tanks and have no special effects other than being able to be thrown like Dark Matter in Final Fantasy, he may be able to understand better.  
  1146.  
  1147. [19:58] <@AdrianMarceau> Coreguard is not a thing at all in any way whatsoever.
  1148.  
  1149. [19:58] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I know.
  1150.  
  1151. [19:58] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I made sure of it.
  1152.  
  1153. [19:58] <ThatGuyNamedMike> x)
  1154.  
  1155. [19:58] == TailsMK4 [421984a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.25.132.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  1156.  
  1157. [19:59] <@MegaBossMan> Dovidenja, Tails!
  1158.  
  1159. [19:59] <@AdrianMarceau> Cores are collected like any other item and added to the inventory.  You can A) sell them, B) thrown them like rocks or C) let a robot HOLD one to equip additional types of abilities (but no boost)
  1160.  
  1161. [19:59] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I'm just trying to figure out why EVERYONE benefits from Star Force, now.
  1162.  
  1163. [19:59] <@MegaBossMan> Because magic makes the world go round.
  1164.  
  1165. [20:00] <ThatGuyNamedMike> *gravity
  1166.  
  1167. [20:00] <@MegaBossMan> Fine, magic and gravity.
  1168.  
  1169. [20:00] <ThatGuyNamedMike> **gravity
  1170.  
  1171. [20:00] <@AdrianMarceau> Starforce is a completely separate entity that has no relation anymore.  I'm sorry this whole process has been so confusing, but I promise the result is MUCH simpler.  I'm hoping you can one day see that and drop your previous perceptions about the changes coming to the update.
  1172.  
  1173. [20:00] <@MegaBossMan> And the snake people, but that's another thing.
  1174.  
  1175. [20:01] <@MegaBossMan> Welp, Mike, you'll just have to see yourself.
  1176.  
  1177. [20:01] <@MegaBossMan> For now, I'm pretty winded.
  1178.  
  1179. [20:01] <@AdrianMarceau> Stars, while appearing in the "Item Database" are NOT going to be hold-able.
  1180.  
  1181. [20:01] <@AdrianMarceau> They still have a net-effect on all robots in all save files once collected.
  1182.  
  1183. [20:02] <@AdrianMarceau> But BossMan is right.  I are hungry.
  1184.  
  1185. [20:02] <ThatGuyNamedMike> All right, all right..
  1186.  
  1187. [20:02] <ThatGuyNamedMike> I'll handle this.
  1188.  
  1189. [20:02] <ThatGuyNamedMike> For once, no connection problems, so, I can PB it.
  1190.  
  1191. [20:02] <@MegaBossMan> Nah, I got you, Mike.
  1192.  
  1193. [20:03] <ThatGuyNamedMike> You sure?
  1194.  
  1195. [20:03] <@AdrianMarceau> Awesome.  Thanks Mike.  And sorry about all the confusion.  I anxiously await you coming around to our side.  ^_^
  1196.  
  1197. [20:03] <@MegaBossMan> [This is what gives my life meaning! :P]
  1198.  
  1199.  
  1200. [20:03] <@MegaBossMan> Alright, good night, all of you.
  1201.  
  1202. [20:03] <@MegaBossMan> Gotta go PB this thing.
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