View difference between Paste ID: 3MWYTkEY and TaRrECDA

 The Carthus Conqueror and the Profaned Flame
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:27:01 No.156826526 ▶>>156826653
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:27:01 No.156826526 ?>>156826653
 
     >Storm Ruler is used to kill Ancient Wyvern
     >Wolnir is in Yhorm's bossroom like he was originally going to be
     >Yhorm's damage resistance is now lower to make it easier to achieve the viscerals
     Boom, DaS3 is now a better game
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:29:01 No.156826653 ▶>>156826739 >>156827428
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:29:01 No.156826653 ?>>156826739 >>156827428
 
     >>156826526
     How the fug would gigantic crawling skeleton man work in Yhorm's room
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:40:16 No.156827428 ▶>>156827723 >>156827826 >>156827872 >>156827915 >>156828118 >>156831142
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:40:16 No.156827428 ?>>156827723 >>156827826 >>156827872 >>156827915 >>156828118 >>156831142
 
     >>156826653
     Pre release trailers show it. Wolnir was in the Profaned Capital. He likely wasn't a boss or an optional one, and was a Covenant leader aka Nito 2.0
 
     Yhorm was actually designed for the arena you fight Gundyr in. That grave is actually Yhorm's, and you see him wake up from it in the intro video.
 
     Gundyr was originally in the room where OCELOOOOTE is now.
 
     The game had a very significant bunch of changes and fuckarounds late in the game.
 
     High Wall of "Lodaleth" is also the name originally for the first area.
     There's other shit, like the Catacombs of Carthus actually being entered after Greatwood, the archway where you offer up bones to moundmakers is actually a patched up doorway.
 
     Wolnir's bossroom/fight are SUPER last minute. The room you teleport to him is literally a box map placed floating PAST IRITHYLL somewhere for no reason.
 
     The room you find the goblet in, was likely something else entirely.
 
     There was also going to be a back way into Irithyll via Smoldering Lake through Irithyll Dungeon. That's why the Pontif Beast can be in 1 of 2 places, the bridge or the water area, because either of those 2 places would've been your entry point into Irithyll.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:44:55 No.156827723 ▶>>156827792 >>156828080
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:44:55 No.156827723 ?>>156827792 >>156828080
 
     >>156827428
     >Yhorm was actually designed for the arena you fight Gundyr in. That grave is actually Yhorm's, and you see him wake up from it in the intro video.
 
     That's a leap to make.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:46:00 No.156827792 ▶>>156828086
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:46:00 No.156827792 ?>>156828086
 
     >>156827723
     It does bring up a good question, though:
     How the fuck did Yhorm even get back down to the Profaned Capital, and how did he get inside his boss room?
     The door is far too small to fit a giant, and there's no way actually into the capital that he could fit through
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:46:30 No.156827826 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:46:30 No.156827826 ?
 File: 20161008124526_1.jpg (738 KB, 2560x1440)
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     >>156827428
     >There was also going to be a back way into Irithyll via Smoldering Lake through Irithyll Dungeon.
 
     >TFW THIS FINALLY MAKES SENSE
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:47:00 No.156827872 ▶>>156828280
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:47:00 No.156827872 ?>>156828280
 File: YhormMessages.png (2 KB, 194x106)
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     >>156827428
     Fun fact: They put the wrong message in Yhorm's boss room. The message they ended up using instead was meant for fighting Curse-Rotted Greatwood, indicating Storm Ruler wasn't always Yhorm's gimmick.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:47:32 No.156827915 ▶>>156828146
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:47:32 No.156827915 ?>>156828146
 
     >>156827428
     >He likely wasn't a boss or an optional one
     >and was a Covenant leader aka Nito 2.0
 
     You made that up just now, though.
 
     >Yhorm was actually designed for the arena you fight Gundyr in.
 
     And this, too. Just because Yhorm woke up there doesn't mean you fight him there, all the other lords woke up and they didn't stick around in their graves either.
 
     >Gundyr was originally in the room where OCELOOOOTE is now
 
     I don't remember seeing that in the trailer.
 
     >"Lodaleth"
 
     Bandai Namco is notably bad at translations.
 
     >the archway where you offer up bones to moundmakers is actually a patched up doorway
 
     I don't remember this from any of the pre-release gameplay, either.
 
     >There was also going to be a back way into Irithyll via Smoldering Lake through Irithyll Dungeon. That's why the Pontif Beast can be in 1 of 2 places, the bridge or the water area, because either of those 2 places would've been your entry point into Irithyll.
 
     Your ass must have a staggering storage capacity if you could manage a pull like that.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:49:39 No.156828080 ▶>>156828993
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:49:39 No.156828080 ?>>156828993
 
     >>156827723
     My guess is Yhorm was going to be the tutorial boss originally, sans the storm ruler part. Some big dumb giant that's fairly easy to dodge and a decent ask for new players.
 
     But then Namco hyped him up and Fromsoft made him into a late game boss.
 
     That's why he's kind of shit. They just inflated his HP pool to makeup for his E Z moveset to deal with and included a meme throwback to make it go over better.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:50:11 No.156828118 ▶>>156828275 >>156828561
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:50:11 No.156828118 ?>>156828275 >>156828561
 File: asdf.jpg (132 KB, 1920x1200)
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     >>156827428
     >Pre release trailers show it. Wolnir was in the Profaned Capital.
     Huh, where is this, the room with the 3 handclopes?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:50:28 No.156828146 ▶>>156828336 >>156835465
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:50:28 No.156828146 ?>>156828336 >>156835465
 File: g9tOUVM[1].jpg (113 KB, 1600x900)
 113 KB
 
-    >>156827915 (You)
+    >>156827915
     >I don't remember seeing that in the trailer.
 
     He was wrong about it being in a trailer, it was the first set of leaked images.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:03 No.156828275 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:03 No.156828275 ?
 
     >>156828118
     Wolnir's arm is fucking clipping through the pillars in that room. He would never work in there
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:06 No.156828280 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:06 No.156828280 ?
 
     >>156827872
     >You would use the storm ruler on greatwood to hit the hanging sacks, or crack open the thing to reveal the arm, the sacks may not have even been there originally
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:49 No.156828336 ▶>>156829230
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:52:49 No.156828336 ?>>156829230
 
     >>156828146
     So Gundyr was supposed to be where Oceiros is? Which would then lead to Gundyr in the past?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:55:37 No.156828561 ▶>>156829114
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)20:55:37 No.156828561 ?>>156829114
 
     >>156828118
     That actually looks like where you fight 2DOG in Irithyll
 
     But then, it's not. Maybe the water is throwing me off.
 
     That could be Yhorm's room if it was filled with water. Need to find those pillars.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:01:30 No.156828993 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:01:30 No.156828993 ?
 
     >>156828080
     >My guess is Yhorm was going to be the tutorial boss originally
     >My guess is they were going to put a Lord of Cinder as the tutorial boss
 
     Sounds pretty silly to me.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:03:11 No.156829114 ▶>>156829184 >>156829190 >>156829349 >>156829390 >>156830102 >>156830330
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:03:11 No.156829114 ?>>156829184 >>156829190 >>156829349 >>156829390 >>156830102 >>156830330
 File: TinyYhorm.webm (2.89 MB, 848x480)
 2.89 MB
 
     >>156828561
     >That could be Yhorm's room if it was filled with water
 
     The center of Yhorm's Room is currently filled with water. Or at least watery sludge.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:04:08 No.156829184 ▶>>156829357
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:04:08 No.156829184 ?>>156829357
 
     >>156829114
     Too bad that looks nothing like the room Wolnir was in.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:04:39 No.156829230 ▶>>156829397 >>156829459 >>156829825 >>156829882 >>156830183
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:04:39 No.156829230 ?>>156829397 >>156829459 >>156829825 >>156829882 >>156830183
 
     >>156828336
     >tfw Consumed Kings Garden
     >Consumed King
 
     >Gundyr with his black monster shit
 
     >Gundyr's armour still says it was modeled on an old king
 
     Calling it now:
 
     >Old King Oceiros = used to be what is currently Gundyr
 
     >Iudex/Champion Gundyr = used to be what is currently Yhorm the Giant, you would fight him again in the same huge arena as Champion Gundyr (Yhorm, red eyes) in Untended Graves just after he's woken up from the big sarcophagus and here's where you use the storm ruler
 
     >Yhorm the Giant = used to be what is currently Wolnir
 
     >The Chalice room in Carthus is where you simply part of a covenant interaction with "Yhorm" (Wolnir) and that's why the chalice is a cut key item
 
     IT FITS
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:12 No.156829349 ▶>>156829510 >>156829825
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:12 No.156829349 ?>>156829510 >>156829825
 
     >>156829114
     That's indeed the same room wolnir was in pre release. Same exact pillars and the water. There's now just more clutter with the gold stuff around the place.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:20 No.156829357 ▶>>156829825
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:20 No.156829357 ?>>156829825
 
-    >>156829184 (You)
+    >>156829184
     I mean, doesn't it?
     You've got water in the central part of the floor, pillars with square pedestals and rings around their base, a ledge on the back wall with candles. It matches up pretty well.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:51 No.156829390 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:51 No.156829390 ?
 
     >>156829114
     that's so cute
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:58 No.156829397 ▶>>156829484 >>156830802
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:06:58 No.156829397 ?>>156829484 >>156830802
 File: 1473690383150.jpg (20 KB, 319x324)
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     >>156829230
     more evidence that das3 was completely scrambled like das2
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:07:44 No.156829459 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:07:44 No.156829459 ?
 
     >>156829230
     >Yhorm the Giant (Skeleton Lord)
 
     It makes sense. "Wolnir" as he is now is the biggest giantest thing in the game.
 
     Old King Ocerios and looking like Gundyr would make sense too, since "Gundyr"s entire armour is lifted from Old King Doran.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:08:08 No.156829484 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:08:08 No.156829484 ?
 
     >>156829397
     >implying ds1 wasn't scrambled
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:08:20 No.156829510 ▶>>156829587
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:08:20 No.156829510 ?>>156829587
 
     >>156829349
     The scale seems completely different though:
     https://youtu.be/2HIxuGi_2TQ?t=84 [Embed]
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:09:17 No.156829587 ▶>>156830210
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:09:17 No.156829587 ?>>156830210
 
     >>156829510
     Hard to say because Wolnir's there fucking up sense of scale.
 
     They also could've simply scaled the area/map down/up. They do this.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:12:15 No.156829825 ▶>>156830116 >>156830254
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:12:15 No.156829825 ?>>156830116 >>156830254
 
     >>156829230
     >IT FITS
 
     It looks more like you had an epileptic fit while typing.
 
     >fighting a lord of cinder in the age of dark, when the bell hasn't even rung
     >yhorm was in the intro trailer before the wolnir screenshot was even out
     >raw chalice-related speculation
 
     >>156829357
     >>156829349
     Nonsense, are you all this bad at spatial reasoning? Look at the walls.
 
     Yhorm's room has pillars in the water, but before the walls. There's a dry strip of floor between the pillars and the wall.
 
     Wolnir's room there has the pillars flush against the walls, doesn't have the stairsteps leading to the dry strip of floor in Yhorm's (because Wolnir's has no dry strip), and the candles are in alcoves instead of being on top of the staircases.
 
     Sheesh.
 
     If anything, the room Wolnir is in looks like the entrance hallway for the 2cat Aldrich Faithful room. The skinny part, before it widens out to make room for fighting... something. Honestly, the cats aren't big enough to justify all that space, even with both of them together.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:12:56 No.156829882 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:12:56 No.156829882 ?
 
     >>156829230
     I think you might be right. The whole dragon/archdragon peak thing seems very late addition. I'd not be surprised if that was originally going to be The Nameless King DLC released in like June or July and From deemed it too jewy.
 
     they clearly played BB mid development and wanted to ape the Ludwig experience and fucked shit around to make a shitty glitchy dragon boss happen where there used to be Gundyr.
 
     Untended Graves itself may have been a total late addition too, the area after The Consumed King for all we know led to the fucking original cut Kiln level to Firelink for all we know
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:15:28 No.156830102 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:15:28 No.156830102 ?
 
     >>156829114
     D'aww that's fucking adorable
     >I AM a lord of cinder, stop laughing!
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:15:43 No.156830116 ▶>>156830587 >>156831531
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:15:43 No.156830116 ?>>156830587 >>156831531
 
-    >>156829825 (You)
+    >>156829825
     You're not getting it.
 
     "Yhorm" being the tutorial boss wasn't a Lord of Cinder. He was still called Gundyr, but the difference is "Gundyr" is a giant man using a machete.
 
     "Old King Ocerios" is what Gundyr was.
 
     "Yhorm the Giant" still wouldve existed as the lord of cinder in profaned capital. It was just Wolnir's model instead.
 
     We have pictures of "Gundyr" in The Consumed King's Garden, we have footage of "Wolnir" in Yhorm's room, and we have into videos showing "Yhorm" in the area before Firelink.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:16:26 No.156830183 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:16:26 No.156830183 ?
 
     >>156829230
     Stupid, Oceiros is the Consumed King because he ruled over Lothric and went batshit trying to become a dragon. Gundyr is a Doran reference. Yhorm was Wolnir but Wolnir's room is dependent on the chalice because the Catacombs are rushed and pasted next to a city road for some crazy reason. Wolnir is a conqueror and the Profaned Capital fits him and his power better. The Capital is also rushed since they probably made it first without thinking of how to connect it properly to anything. Although it looks like 2beast's room that room has next to nothing else like it
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:16:47 No.156830210 ▶>>156830385 >>156830587
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:16:47 No.156830210 ?>>156830385 >>156830587
 File: 20161008041545_1.jpg (313 KB, 1920x1080)
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     >>156829587
     I agree that it's most likely a different version of this room I guess. The trailer walls seem almost up against the pillars.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:17:25 No.156830254 ▶>>156830409 >>156830538 >>156830578 >>156830587 >>156830714 >>156830720 >>156831163 >>156835465
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:17:25 No.156830254 ?>>156830409 >>156830538 >>156830578 >>156830587 >>156830714 >>156830720 >>156831163 >>156835465
 File: 20161007211346_1.jpg (596 KB, 2560x1440)
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-    >>156829825 (You)
+    >>156829825
     >Nonsense, are you all this bad at spatial reasoning? Look at the walls.
 
     Anon, the pillars in Yhorm's room are Objects, the same classification as barrels or crates. I could move them over to the walls myself if I wanted.
 
     If Wolnir were just a little bit more forward, and the pillars were by the walls, he'd fit fine.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:18:31 No.156830330 ▶>>156831202
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:18:31 No.156830330 ?>>156831202
 
     >>156829114
     >this is what the player character look like to yhorm
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:19:15 No.156830385 ▶>>156830828 >>156830918
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:19:15 No.156830385 ?>>156830828 >>156830918
 File: yhorm.png (150 KB, 556x305)
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     >>156830210
     The bonfire warp thumbnail for that room shows it missing walls, too.
 
 
     Look at that left wall. You can see the archway floating in nothing
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:19:32 No.156830409 ▶>>156830578 >>156830714
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:19:32 No.156830409 ?>>156830578 >>156830714
 
     >>156830254
     oh shit
 
     You know, his gold crown kind of reminds me of all the gold trinkets lying around
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:05 No.156830538 ▶>>156831141 >>156831163
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:05 No.156830538 ?>>156831141 >>156831163
 
     >>156830254
     Can you please put Yhorm in place of Iudex Gundyr before Firelink?
 
     Seriously I would suck 4 internet dicks for you
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:35 No.156830578 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:35 No.156830578 ?
 
     >>156830254
     >>156830409
     Wjolnir does seem the type to have a room built entirely around him
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:43 No.156830587 ▶>>156830872 >>156830918
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:43 No.156830587 ?>>156830872 >>156830918
 
     >>156830116
     >we have footage of "Wolnir" in Yhorm's room
     Refer to the second half of the post you replied to. That ain't Yhorm's room by a mile, there are too many differences. All you're looking at is the wet floor, the fact that it has pillars, and the fact that it has candles. You aren't looking at the placement of the water, the placement of the pillars, or the placement of the candles.
 
     >>156830210
     >>156830254
     God damn it, guys. Just warp to the water reservoir, walk to the ladder, and take a picture. Its the fucking 2cat room.
 
     >>156830116
     Anyways.
 
     Here's the question that'll make or break your theory: which came first, the intro cinematic or this trailer? Because fancy intro cinematics like that aren't something you make in a day.
 
     >and we have into videos showing "Yhorm" in the area before Firelink
     Please tell me you aren't referring to the intro cinematic here. The same one that also has Aldrich and the Abyss Watchers rising from their Firelink graves.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:47 No.156830594 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:21:47 No.156830594 ?
 
     >Yhorm's room has all those dead bodies and the gold
     >this fits wolnir more
     Holy fug guys, this isn't just a game theory it actually sounds real, kill me.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:23:16 No.156830714 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:23:16 No.156830714 ?
 
     >>156830254
     >>156830409
 
     >the gold coins you find everywhere in profaned capital
     >the gold shit all over the room
     >the gold crown
 
     He was a king Midas
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:23:23 No.156830720 ▶>>156830882
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:23:23 No.156830720 ?>>156830882
 
     >>156830254
     The stairs aren't objects, though, and the structure of the walls is still entirely different. Crop out everything except that left wall in both this image and the screenshot, and you'll see that they don't match.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:24:26 No.156830802 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:24:26 No.156830802 ?
 
     >>156829397
     Oh yeah, because Lost Izlieath and Tomb of Giants werent fucking copypasta.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:25:21 No.156830872 ▶>>156831029 >>156831053
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:25:21 No.156830872 ?>>156831029 >>156831053
 File: 20161007212446_1.jpg (529 KB, 2560x1440)
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-    >>156830587 (You)
+    >>156830587
     These pillars are not at all similar.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:25:30 No.156830882 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:25:30 No.156830882 ?
 
-    >>156830720 (You)
+    >>156830720
     So what, level design is not set in stone. Lothric Castle looked different in prerelease shots too. Big whoop.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:26:03 No.156830918 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:26:03 No.156830918 ?
 File: 20161008042436_1.jpg (320 KB, 1920x1080)
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-    >>156830587 (You)
+    >>156830587
     I had already checked that first, completely different.
     >>156830385
     Huh, cool find. Weird as hell, maybe that was taken mid-rework for some reason?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:27:34 No.156831029 ▶>>156831240
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:27:34 No.156831029 ?>>156831240
 
     >>156830872
     I was talking about the things in the walls that look like pillars.
 
     Fuck, I know I've seen that room somewhere before. It wasn't Yhorm's, it was something else. Still think it's water reservoir from a really weird angle, though.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:27:47 No.156831053 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:27:47 No.156831053 ?
 
     >>156830872
     bingo bongo, done.
 
     "Wolnir" was either in Yhorm's room originally, or "Yhorm The Giant" was actually Wolnir by look.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:29:11 No.156831141 ▶>>156831286 >>156831446 >>156831548 >>156831734 >>156831826 >>156832013 >>156832173 >>156835465
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:29:11 No.156831141 ?>>156831286 >>156831446 >>156831548 >>156831734 >>156831826 >>156832013 >>156832173 >>156835465
 File: 20161007212854_1.jpg (983 KB, 2560x1440)
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     >>156830538
     No problem.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:29:32 No.156831163 ▶>>156831286
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:29:32 No.156831163 ?>>156831286
 
     >>156830254
 
     Oi, you! You!
     >>156830538
 
     Swap Iudex for Yhorm's model before firelink, maybe even try in Dark Firelink too for shits.
 
     I have a feeling it'll look juuust right.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:30:02 No.156831202 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:30:02 No.156831202 ?
 
     >>156830330
     >Be a giant
     >Have a beloved once upon a time
     >Lose her and go berserk
     >Start fucking up fools with a giant machete
     >Oh shit my favorite city is being burnt down from some weird-ass sky fire
     >Burn myself alive to somehow stop the fire
     >Take a nice dirt nap for awhile
     >Wake up and everything looks different
     >Eventually find my way back to my city
     >Shits fucked
     >Take a minute to sit down and consider my next action
     >A midget walks through my newly installed fog curtain, fucks the whole thing up
     >He starts running at me and starts banging against my shins with a sword
     >He fucking takes my favorite toothpick
     >Oh shit it shoots storms at me, my only weakness!
     >Fucking die to an ant
     Yhorm had a hard life
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:30:32 No.156831240 ▶>>156831618
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:30:32 No.156831240 ?>>156831618
 
-    >>156831029 (You)
+    >>156831029
     A "weird" enough angle to turn the square architecture round?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:31:05 No.156831286 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:31:05 No.156831286 ?
 
     >>156831163
     >>156831141
 
     OH SHIT ANON
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:33:13 No.156831446 ▶>>156831530
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:33:13 No.156831446 ?>>156831530
 
     >>156831141
     This feels right to look at
 
     I bet it looks really cool in dark firelink with his glowing eyes
 
     >Dark Firelink you'd fight him Embered, regular firelink he's unembered and the tutorial boss whos' big and dumb and easy to dodge, you'd need storm ruler to kill him in untended graves
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:35 No.156831530 ▶>>156831675 >>156833242
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:35 No.156831530 ?>>156831675 >>156833242
 
     >>156831446
     It feels right to you because it supports your asspull nonsense. To me it looks completely out of place. He wouldn't even fit in the coffin.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:36 No.156831531 ▶>>156831769 >>156831940
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:36 No.156831531 ?>>156831769 >>156831940
 
     >>156830116
     Yhorm's cut content set refers to him as "Lord of Cinder", almost like it's his name actually, rather than being a title. If we're going by older content, nothing suggests Yhorm was ever anything less than a Lord of Cinder.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:45 No.156831548 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:34:45 No.156831548 ?
 
     >>156831141
     >Only a Storm can fell a Greatwood
     >that tree feeding and growing from the coffin
     the plot thickens
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:35:40 No.156831618 ▶>>156831913 >>156832656
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:35:40 No.156831618 ?>>156831913 >>156832656
 File: 1475891411654.jpg (308 KB, 1780x1136)
 308 KB
 
     >>156831240
     Okay, it isn't 2cat room. But it sure as hell isn't Yhorm's room.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:36:35 No.156831675 ▶>>156831913
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:36:35 No.156831675 ?>>156831913
 
     >>156831530
     The more important thing about the coffin is that it's got a giant fucking tree on it. If the supposition is that you were supposed to fight Yhorm after he just got out of his coffin, it wouldn't really follow to cover it in a way that suggest a really, really, really long amount of time has passed.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:37:20 No.156831734 ▶>>156833625
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:37:20 No.156831734 ?>>156833625
 
     >>156831141
     As cool as this could be, this would just be From's attempt to atone for the confusing nonsense that was The Last Giant and then Giant Lord. But Dark Firelink makes even LESS SENSE, so this would only make things worse. I think its better the way things are now, but Profaned Capital obviously suffered some big cut content issues, so no matter how it ended, someone wouldve been fucked in the end.
 
     >Captcha: Gwynn Hidding
     What does it mean?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:37:46 No.156831769 ▶>>156832135
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:37:46 No.156831769 ?>>156832135
 
     >>156831531
     What if the path through untended graves actually had the fight with yhorm again, but defeating him gave you his lord soul, but it then continued through to the destroyed firelink shrine and the original cut Kiln level to the final fight with soul?
 
     Wolnir in profaned capital, being just some kind of side boss/covenant leader setup and not one of the lords
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:38:36 No.156831826 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:38:36 No.156831826 ?
 File: 1428737937986.jpg (88 KB, 500x545)
 88 KB
 
     >>156831141
     YOU'VE CRACKED THE CODE
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:39:49 No.156831913 ▶>>156832135
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:39:49 No.156831913 ?>>156832135
 
-    >>156831618 (You)
+    >>156831618
     >Same pillars, albiet with more detail added
     >same archways
     >water
 
     You sure fooled me anon
 
     >>156831675
     >The iudex was waiting for some time
 
     You forgot this part. Maybe the theoretical fight versus Champion "Yhorm" the tree wouldn't be there.
 
     Actually, is the tree there in dark firelink currently?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:40:10 No.156831940 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:40:10 No.156831940 ?
 
     >>156831531
     Way way back when DaS3 was first revealed, a fromsoft rep described Yhorm (not by name of course) in the CGI trailer bit as the concept design for Lord of Cinder that they were going for with DaS3. They seemed to suggest that before they even had names and lore and all that, Yhorm had been drafted up as their sort of core representative of Lord of Cinder.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:41:06 No.156832013 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:41:06 No.156832013 ?
 
     >>156831141
     This actually looks pretty cool, but you can really tell here that Yhorm's textures were not made to be in a well-light environment.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:42:32 No.156832135 ▶>>156832590 >>156832656
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:42:32 No.156832135 ?>>156832590 >>156832656
 
     >>156831769
     This is just getting more convoluted the more you drag it out, anon.
 
     It's 100% clear Profaned Capital was unfinished. The bit from the bonfire to the boss room is super short, there's 2-3 different routes from the tower that go nowhere at all, and the toxic swamp is full of all kinds of weird confusing shit that doesn't make sense. Like the hand ogres, who apparently count as abyssal enemies in a place noted for its fire nonsense. It just doesn't look like Wolnir had anything to do with it.
 
     >>156831913
     They aren't even remotely the same, you nut.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:43:04 No.156832173 ▶>>156832329
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:43:04 No.156832173 ?>>156832329
 File: tfw no digestive system.jpg (126 KB, 500x500)
 126 KB
 
     >>156831141
     That looks cool as shit. I'm genuinely pissed off we got the rushed release and wouldn't have mind if DS3 was released by the end of this year just so it can be fully polished.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:45:04 No.156832329 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:45:04 No.156832329 ?
 
     >>156832173
     Too bad, Bamco says one game every year as soon as possible
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:48:31 No.156832590 ▶>>156833834
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:48:31 No.156832590 ?>>156833834
 
-    >>156832135 (You)
+    >>156832135
     >Like the hand ogres, who apparently count as abyssal enemies in a place noted for its fire nonsense. It just doesn't look like Wolnir had anything to do with it.
 
     Wolnir fell to the Abyss. The Hand Ogres presence could be related to that.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:49:12 No.156832656 ▶>>156833839
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:49:12 No.156832656 ?>>156833839
 
-    >>156832135 (You)
+    >>156832135
     Those archways are the exact same, and the pillars are the same but they've now got new detail on the bottoms.
 
     Find any other place in the game that looks more like it.
 
-    >>156831618 (You)
+    >>156831618
 
     The archways clearly even have the smaller arch in the middle of them
 
     If that's not Profaned Capital, where is it, anon? Where was "Wolnir" originally?
 
     We know Gundyr was originally in Consumed Kings Garden. There's a screen of that.
 
     So what was in place of where Gundyr is right now, before firelink? If Gundyr was the Consumed King, who was the Iudex?
 
     We have footage of Wolnir being somewhere he's not. So what was originally where Wolnir was?
 
     This isn't asspull, it's just logical conclusion jumping. If Gundyr wasn't originally the tutorial boss, someone else was. That "someone else" has a complete different boss appearing to occupy their current room also.
 
     We've got 3 bosses that appear to be shuffled.
 
     So then when you think about the huge sarcophagus, and the intro showing said boss waking up from that exact area looking at firelink tower, I can't really come to any other conclusion.
 
     Iudex Gundyr/Champion Gundyr = Yhorm's model.
     Consumed King Oceiros = Gundyr's model
     Yhorm the Giant = Wolnir's model.
 
     Dragonslimefucker = late addition replacing the look and lore of Ocerios, with the dragon area added via warp complete disconnect
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:57:22 No.156833242 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)21:57:22 No.156833242 ?
 File: 20161007215458_1.jpg (559 KB, 2560x1440)
 559 KB
 
     >>156831530
     >He wouldn't even fit in the coffin.
 
     Alright, so I myself am not completely sold on the idea, but that's not true. By clipping through the terrain, you can see the full size of the coffin. From measuring the coordinates at the top and bottom, you can see that the coffin is about 12 units long. Yhorm's model is between 7-8 units tall, though it's a little harder to measure him outside T-pose. Either way, he's nowhere near 12 units. If nothing else, it's easily a fair assumption that it's meant to be Yhorm's coffin.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:01:40 No.156833531 ▶>>156833617 >>156833716 >>156835465
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:01:40 No.156833531 ?>>156833617 >>156833716 >>156835465
 File: FU0Tn5T[1].jpg (73 KB, 1600x900)
 73 KB
 
     For everyone getting obsessed about the differences between Wolnir's prerelease room and Yhorm's room in the final build, just take a moment to remember that these are the earliest known images of Dark Souls 3. They had time to readjust things, and it's not outside the realm of possibility for Wolnir's original room to have been an earlier version that they expanded somewhat later on.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:02:53 No.156833617 ▶>>156833831
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:02:53 No.156833617 ?>>156833831
 File: drunk ronnie confusion.png (73 KB, 202x259)
 73 KB
 
     >>156833531
     >Dancer just standing around
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:02:58 No.156833625 ▶>>156833698 >>156834147 >>156834205
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:02:58 No.156833625 ?>>156833698 >>156834147 >>156834205
 
     >>156831734
     >The Last Giant and then Giant Lord
     >Regular and Dark Firelink
     So they were going to originally pull of this same shit again?
 
     We don't even know if Yhorm a DSII giant!
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:03:53 No.156833698 ▶>>156834087 >>156834147 >>156834205
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:03:53 No.156833698 ?>>156834087 >>156834147 >>156834205
 
     >>156833625
     Hes not. He has a face unline ds2 giants.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:04:11 No.156833716 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:04:11 No.156833716 ?
 
     >>156833531
     >Implying this isn't the Londor DLC where you visit rehashed lothric castle at night
 
     shiggydiggy, they ALWAYS rehash an area of the main game in a DLC
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:44 No.156833831 ▶>>156834212
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:44 No.156833831 ?>>156834212
 
     >>156833617
     Actually, that's not dancer. You can see the same models walking around Irithyll as spooky ghosts
 
     >eastern iron shield was it's normal size
 
     STILL HURTS
 
     Also what fucking sword i
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:47 No.156833834 ▶>>156833968 >>156834146
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:47 No.156833834 ?>>156833968 >>156834146
 
     >>156832590
     >Wolnir fell to the abyss
     Shit, that even explains the profane flame too.
     I'm convinced.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:50 No.156833839 ▶>>156834113 >>156834376
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:05:50 No.156833839 ?>>156834113 >>156834376
 
     >>156832656
     >Those archways are the exact same, and the pillars are the same but they've now got new detail on the bottoms
     Okay, I see what you're looking at now. They literally just extended the floor below the pillars. Of course, this does mean none of the gold and treasure were in the room at that point.
 
     Here's the thing, though: you're trying to use beta version boss placements to argue that those bosses had different names and backstories. You aren't thinking like a developer whose pressed for time.
 
     We already know Yhorm's character design wasn't swapped with anything, because his cut armor set is still in the game's files and still has the description calling him a lord of cinder. Yhorm the non-skelly giant was, is, and always has been who he is now, just by that alone. Likewise, Wolnir, his crown, his sword, and his dark pyromancy all clearly state what his backstory is. It is, however, really odd that his kingdom appears to be based out of a catacombs of all things.
 
     However: if it's true Wolnir was originally in what is now Yhorm's bossroom, that doesn't mean Wolnir was originally Yhorm. It means the Profaned Capital was originally Carthus, especially if Wolnir's bling seems to match it. Being too late in development to make new assets and needing a place to stick the final Lord of Cinder, they sliced Carthus Kingdom apart from the catacombs above it, stitched it onto where the Profaned Capital was planned to be, and slapped Yhorm in there because the chair was big enough to fit his giant ass, then quickly made a new boss room for Wolnir, put it wherever they had space for it, and instead of having him come out of the abyss from a portal like he did in the trailer they just staged the fight inside the abyss and gave him a slapdash moveset to work with it. You'll note that Wolnir's bracelets in that screenshot aren't glowing at all while they are in the actual bossfight, which might indicate they weren't planned to be a weak point at first.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:07:17 No.156833968 ▶>>156834261
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:07:17 No.156833968 ?>>156834261
 
     >>156833834
     doubly so when you realise that smouldering lake was going to join up to irithyll dungeon/profaned capital area by way up past the arbalest
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:08:54 No.156834087 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:08:54 No.156834087 ?
 
     >>156833698
     The DSII giants are the same giants from ds1 and ds3 at Anor Londo and those ones had faces.
 
     The faceless giant thing was just a dumb thing that II brought up that 3 quietly dropped
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:11 No.156834113 ▶>>156834376
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:11 No.156834113 ?>>156834376
 
-    >>156833839 (You)
+    >>156833839
     This makes sense too anon.
 
     I wasn't really sperging out making out that one thing had to be one or the other, I guess I was thinking in the line that it was "always" called Profaned Capital.
 
     But it would be interesting if it was originally part of Carthus. I never felt right about how the entire carthus area is just....underneath a box room filled with undead legion
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:41 No.156834146 ▶>>156835017
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:41 No.156834146 ?>>156835017
 
     >>156833834
     >Explains the profane flame too
     pls explain
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:41 No.156834147 ▶>>156838016
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:09:41 No.156834147 ?>>156838016
 
     >>156833625
     >>156833698
     Some anon brought up once that DaS2 giants actually arent entirely distinguishable by their face-holes, because they originally didnt have them. They never actually came up with a good face design before the game launched, so in the end they just put holes in their faces and called it a day. It actually worked and made them really cool, especially how you encounter your first actual giants in Black Gulch in total darkness.
     But yea, Yhorm having a face doesnt not make him a DaS2 giant. The faces they had originally can actually still be seen in the Giant Memory areas, under the dead body of giants. They missed some of the models on the piles and left in the old faces, someone here might have a picture of it. They looked like fucking piranhas, it was terrifying. Its better they had no faces at all.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:10:15 No.156834205 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:10:15 No.156834205 ?
 
     >>156833625
     >>156833698
     DaS2 giants were victims of the original DaS2 dev before they brought Tanimura in to clean up the mess. First guy, Shibuya or whatever his name was, gave them absolutely stupid faces. Tani didn't have time to make any new things let alone new giant faces, so they just scooped out the face region and left a giant hole. They missed a few though, and you can still see the old face on a couple corpses in the giant memories.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:10:19 No.156834212 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:10:19 No.156834212 ?
 
     >>156833831
     There's exactly one model like that that walks around Irithyll, and it's the ghost-echo of Dancer as she was sent out of Irithyll by Sullivan, as what happened with Vordt and the rest of the Outrider Knights.
 
     It probably has no lore relevance anyways, since Miyazaki just makes the game first and then pulls lore out of his ass to make it fit together.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:11:05 No.156834261 ▶>>156834723
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:11:05 No.156834261 ?>>156834723
 
     >>156833968
     >Smouldering Lake Arbalest
     >Had Skelles manning it (if I remember right)
     Starting to make more sense. So Wolnir tried conquering the demons as well.
 
     (I'm honestly gland that gundyr was the first boss all things said)
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:12:46 No.156834376 ▶>>156834601 >>156834747
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:12:46 No.156834376 ?>>156834601 >>156834747
 
-    >>156833839 (You)
+    >>156833839
     >>156834113
     There's something I'd like to point out about Gundyr being in Oceiros' room as well. The fact that we saw Gundyr in it doesn't necessarily mean that was his intended placement.
 
     The reason for this suspicion is, From has stated that they always create the tutorial area last. It's easily possible that Gundyr was always meant as the tutorial boss, but they put him in Oceiros' room for some promotional photographs because that map was finished at the time.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:13:13 No.156834410 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:13:13 No.156834410 ?
 File: 1423286063817.gif (2.32 MB, 479x258)
 2.32 MB
 
     >All this unearthed lore
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:16:01 No.156834590 ▶>>156835007
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:16:01 No.156834590 ?>>156835007
 
     Just to chime in on this Wolnir conversation, the Jailbreaker's Key mentions a "bottomless black pit" beneath the Profaned Capital that you can even see at the edge of the broken bridge with a fucking gold coin placed to bait you.
 
     Considering all the other abyssal stuff in the Profaned Capital, it could very well be the place where Wolnir "fell"
     Hell, Carthus was known for its pyromancers who, following their lord's descent, mastered abyssal flames. The Profaned Capital could very well be the Profaned Capital of Carthus.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:16:14 No.156834601 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:16:14 No.156834601 ?
 
     >>156834376
     I'll play devils advocate here.
     The pus of man thing that comes out of Gundyr also ties him to the Consumed King's room.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:18:34 No.156834747 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:18:34 No.156834747 ?
 
     >>156834376
     That's very true too.
 
     I think I made the "Gundyr might have been Oceiros" thing because Old King Doran in Demon's was the previous king of Boletaria, and Gundyr's armour is literally a big big big nod to that design. Having Gundyr's model present in the room of the Consumed King made it go further. When the armour description states its based on an old king, I thought originally that was a clear obvious tongue in cheek ref to king doran, but I have to wonder if it's not what King Oceiros originally looked like before being a dragonfucker in development.
 
     I saw some theory about how the name Oceiros ingame is misspelled by translation and the kana for the name is actually in direct reference to some Sumerian/Ottoman/Muslim kings or something, and the beard design on the helmet/mask is kind of alot like those babylonian kings
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:22:32 No.156835007 ▶>>156835108
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:22:32 No.156835007 ?>>156835108
 
     >>156834590
     This, of course, would make even more sense if Profaned Capital was accessible through Smouldering Lake. And Wolnir's abyssal shenanigans would also explain the abyssal monsters hanging around.
 
     Holy shit, look at all this lore we lost because Namco needed the game out ASAP. I sure hope From gets a chance to remaster this shit.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:22:47 No.156835017 ▶>>156835183 >>156835243
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:22:47 No.156835017 ?>>156835183 >>156835243
 File: profaned_flame.png (31 KB, 210x237)
 31 KB
 
     >>156834146
     The Profane Flame was created by a daughter of the abyss:
 
     >Eleonora
 
     >The Profaned Flame was triggered by the curse of these women, relatives of a certain oracle, but despite their culpability, they went on living, without any cares.
 
     Another connection to abyssal magic, it only targets humans like a heat seeking missle:
 
     >Profaned Flame
     >The Profaned Capital was consumed by fire after Yhorm the Giant became a Lord of Cinder. The fire, born of the sky, is said to have incinerated naught but human flesh.
 
     Also, given that the profane flame is described as a pyromancy, I suspect that the old chaos flame may have also been involved in its creation.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:25:11 No.156835183 ▶>>156835851 >>156835943
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:25:11 No.156835183 ?>>156835851 >>156835943
 File: Rite_of_Kindling.png (5 KB, 80x90)
 5 KB
 
     >>156835017
     >Also, given that the profane flame is described as a pyromancy, I suspect that the old chaos flame may have also been involved in its creation
 
     I'll do you one better: the Profaned Flame is just burning humanity, and only burned human flesh because only humans have Humanity. Kinda like how those Pilgrim Butterflies can somehow still be abyssal, if Dragonslayer Armor and his friend are any indication.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:25:59 No.156835243 ▶>>156835583 >>156835943
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:25:59 No.156835243 ?>>156835583 >>156835943
 
     >>156835017
     >The Profaned Flame was triggered by the curse of these women, relatives of a certain oracle, but despite their culpability, they went on living, without any cares.
     >relatives of a certain oracle
 
     Like the robe chicks at the beginning of ds2
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:29:07 No.156835465 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:29:07 No.156835465 ?
 
     >>156828146
     >>156830254
     >>156831141
     >>156833531
 
     Speaking of things cut from the game, the Pigrim Butterflies from the DSA fight might have had a more involved role:
 
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJNsnqNOTg0
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:30:37 No.156835583 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:30:37 No.156835583 ?
 
     >>156835243
     Those weren't oracles, they were firekeepers.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:34:20 No.156835851 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:34:20 No.156835851 ?
 
-    >>156835183 (You)
+    >>156835183
     Chaos Flames feed on humanity. Chaos pyros and weapons scaled with it in DaS1, because the Chaos Flame burns humanity as fuel.
 
     It's worth noting that the Hand Ogres resemble the DaS1 demon corpses in the Smouldering Lake. They use the same skin textures. The Profaned Flame could very well just be Chaos, taken right from the Smouldering Lake (back when it was probably more than smouldering) by way of some magic and dumped right on the city. In Japanese, all instanced of "Profaned" are just "of Sin." The Profaned Capital is the Capital of Sin, the Profaned Flame is the Flame of Sin (different words for flame used to refer to the spell and the thing) and so on. profaned is a really nice localization and I like that they went with it, but some of the things lost in translation there are the fact that Pontiff Sulyvahn dual-wields the Greatsword of Sin and the Greatsword of Judgement, and the fact that "sin" is used repeatedly all throughout both DaS1 and DaS2 to refer to the Witch of Izalith's failed attempt to create fire that ended in Chaos consuming her. In other words, the connection between Chaos and the Profaned Flame are far more tangible pre-localization.
 
     I'm rather of the opinion that the Profaned Flame is just another word for Chaos.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:35:45 No.156835943 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:35:45 No.156835943 ?
 File: tumblr_nhju4edYgP1tvfm0ko(...).jpg (405 KB, 1280x1600)
 405 KB
 
     >>156835243
     Only one character in entire series
     has ever been referred to as an oracle.
 
-    >>156835183 (You)
+    >>156835183
     The problem with this theory is that Andre directly states that the profane flame is abyssal and the abyss is Wild humanity, not ALL humanity:
     >"Lords... where didye hap'n upon this Coal?"
     >"This is much too dark. I see the abyss in it..."
 
     Also
     >Pilgrim Butterflies
     We don't know shit about them except they are the final stage of the Londor Pilgrims' journey. Are they Archtree dandelion seeds? The beginning stage of an everlasting dragon? None of these? Both of these?
 
     Pilgrim butterflies can't really be used as evidence of anything. We aren't even sure if they are abyssal or if they are, what that means.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:06:53 No.156838016 ▶>>156838205
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:06:53 No.156838016 ?>>156838205
 
     >>156834147
     I dunno, it seems like different kinds of giants exist
 
     The ones in DaS1 are kind of slow and dumb and have faces, but the DaS 2 ones clearly have some sort of hierarchy and social structure and are clearly a lot more intelligent, using well crafted weapons and even wielding magic and pyromancy, they also have a large naval force which you can see shelling the fort and the coastline during the giant memory sections
 
     So maybe the DaS2 giants are just a different race of giants. Similar species, maybe having common ancestors, but different.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:10:00 No.156838205 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:10:00 No.156838205 ?
 
     >>156838016
     DS1 giants were retconned to have holefaces in 3, check the guys in anor londo
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:33:00 No.156835756 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:33:00 No.156835756 ?
 
     >That stupid warp to then warp again that happens after you place the souls on the thrones
     >We know there was a cut Kiln level
 
     Untended Graves would actually just lead up to the destroyed dark firelink, not just a black sky verison and then past it or under it to the kiln area for the finale.
 
     It would've been a bigger impact to the mindfuck rather than it just ending with "hey I can buy artorias armour and fight the tutorial boss again, let's go back home".
 
     You essentially happen upon the "real" firelink shrine basically aping Bloodborne;s Workshop but it's the end of the game final treck with black knights and some nostalgia with a gwyn fight at the end.
 
     Is there anyway we can see the cut kiln level? Is it still in the games files?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:35:23 No.156835917 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:35:23 No.156835917 ?
 
     Reposting since I didn't see the new thread:
 
     Chaos Flames feed on humanity. Chaos pyros and weapons scaled with it in DaS1, because the Chaos Flame burns humanity as fuel.
 
     It's worth noting that the Hand Ogres resemble the DaS1 demon corpses in the Smouldering Lake. They use the same skin textures. The Profaned Flame could very well just be Chaos, taken right from the Smouldering Lake (back when it was probably more than smouldering) by way of some magic and dumped right on the city. In Japanese, all instanced of "Profaned" are just "of Sin." The Profaned Capital is the Capital of Sin, the Profaned Flame is the Flame of Sin (different words for flame used to refer to the spell and the thing) and so on. profaned is a really nice localization and I like that they went with it, but some of the things lost in translation there are the fact that Pontiff Sulyvahn dual-wields the Greatsword of Sin and the Greatsword of Judgement, and the fact that "sin" is used repeatedly all throughout both DaS1 and DaS2 to refer to the Witch of Izalith's failed attempt to create fire that ended in Chaos consuming her. In other words, the connection between Chaos and the Profaned Flame are far more tangible pre-localization.
 
     I'm rather of the opinion that the Profaned Flame is just another word for Chaos.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:36:47 No.156836021 ▶>>156836243 >>156836285 >>156836423
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:36:47 No.156836021 ?>>156836243 >>156836285 >>156836423
 
     >>156835657
 
     They're having a discussion about Wolnir being in Yhorm's boss room in the pre-release screenshots, which lead to someone saying Profaned Capital may have originally been the rest of Carthus but got cut due to time constraints, which lead to someone else pointing out that the Jailer's Key references a "bottomless black pit" below the Profaned Capital that could've been the Abyss Wolnir fell into, which would also make sense of the abyss-type enemies squirming around in the Profaned Capital, which lead further to the conclusion that the Profaned Flame might actually be more closely related to humanity and the dark since it only went after humans.
 
     Actually, all that lore is oddly coherent for something that was supposedly scrapped from the game. Are we sure it isn't legit, and Wolnir and Yhorm just ruled there at different times?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:39:49 No.156836243 ▶>>156836359 >>156836391 >>156837670
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:39:49 No.156836243 ?>>156836359 >>156836391 >>156837670
 
-    >>156836021 (You)
+    >>156836021
     >Yhorm was the descendant of a conqueror
     >Wolnir was THE conqueror
     >Yhorm and Wolnir are both giants with faces
     >Time is convoluted
     Is Yhorm Wolnir's descendant?
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:40:16 No.156836270 ▶>>156838185
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:40:16 No.156836270 ?>>156838185
 File: 20160417172632_1.jpg (755 KB, 2560x1440)
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     I wish there were more information to be found about Crimson Bat. No model, no associated bullets, no icons. All we have is an NPC ID, a soul description, and an unused, unnamed bonfire location beneath the demon ruins.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:40:30 No.156836285 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:40:30 No.156836285 ?
 
-    >>156836021 (You)
+    >>156836021
     "Yhorm is the descendant of an ancient conqueror, but was asked by the very people once subjugated to lead them, serving as both a weighty blade and a stone-hard shield."
 
     -Yhorm's soul
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:41:29 No.156836359 ▶>>156836458
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:41:29 No.156836359 ?>>156836458
 
     >>156836243
     >Yhorm is hated by his own people because his ancestor was literally Genghis Khan
     It checks out.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:41:58 No.156836391 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:41:58 No.156836391 ?
 File: 1411691228606.gif (1.77 MB, 1280x720)
 1.77 MB
 
     >>156836243
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:42:44 No.156836423 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:42:44 No.156836423 ?
 
-    >>156836021 (You)
+    >>156836021
 
     >Are we sure it isn't legit, and Wolnir and Yhorm just ruled there at different times?
     That was my impression actually while playing it.
     Might explain why everyone hated Yhorm despite him doing nothing wrong, he remained the citizens too much of Wolnir.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:43:16 No.156836458 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:43:16 No.156836458 ?
 
     >>156836359
     If his ancestor were really Genghis Khan, half the people he knows would be descendants too.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:43:49 No.156836495 ▶>>156836667
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:43:49 No.156836495 ?>>156836667
 
-    >>156835943 →
+    >>156835943 ?
     The thing that always bothers me about this picture is that Alsanna is nowhere near that stacked. Look at her in-game model, she's basically flat-chested.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:46:18 No.156836667 ▶>>156836976
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:46:18 No.156836667 ?>>156836976
 
     >>156836495
     Alsanna seems to be malnourished ingame, probably to show just how much dedication she has to staying literally on top of the chaos problem, or to show how much effort it's taking from her. Presumably she wasn't railthin before the Chaos became a big enough problem she had to devote all her time to suppressing it.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:47:19 No.156836748 ▶>>156837019 >>156837294
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:47:19 No.156836748 ?>>156837019 >>156837294
 
-    >>156835851 →
+    >>156835851 ?
     >Chaos Flames feed on humanity
     I'd forgotten about that part. The chaos spells technically don't scale with humanity, but the description claims they do so I'm sure they were supposed to and the mechanic was just too bugged to fix.
 
     However, the hand ogres are classified as abyss enemies, not chaos enemies. They take damage from anti-abyss weapons like Wolf Knight Greatsword, but not from anti-demon weapons like Black Knight stuff.
 
     Sin typically refers to anything related to dark and the abyss in this series, and appears most often on stuff like cracked red eye orbs, dark spells being called forbidden or profane, and of course the hand ogre's official name being "monstrosity of sin". And of course, there's the fact that the flame of chaos and the flame of sin are referred to separately.
 
     >greatsword of sin, greatsword of judgement
     That's actually really classy.
 
     >and the fact that "sin" is used repeatedly all throughout both DaS1 and DaS2 to refer to the Witch of Izalith's failed attempt to create fire that ended in Chaos consuming her
 
     This I did not know. But there are enough differences between the two, such as the Profaned Flame having more connections to the abyss than to chaos, but I won't doubt that they may have been created by the same means and share many properties. The Witch of Izalith supposedly based the Flame of Chaos on a special soul, but what kind of soul wasn't stated. The Chaos acts with a will of its own, much like dark spells supposedly do. They both could be based on humanity, ending up with similar properties but slightly different feels. Which would also act as a perfect Lost Izalith redux, if the Profaned Capital actually is adjacent to the Demon Ruins and was the same location the Flame of Chaos spawned in.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:50:58 No.156836976 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:50:58 No.156836976 ?
 
     >>156836667
     She describes herself as one of the smallest fragments of Manus, so it's possible she was always that small. But then again, Nashandra is supposedly the smallest of them, and she turned out pretty big.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:51:42 No.156837019 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:51:42 No.156837019 ?
 File: trying to understand.gif (716 KB, 499x368)
 716 KB
 
-    >>156836748 (You)
+    >>156836748
     >The Chaos acts with a will of its own, much like dark spells supposedly do. They both could be based on humanity, ending up with similar properties but slightly different feels
     Continuing, this would also neatly explain why
 
     A) Pyros and dark spells scale the same way
 
     B) Why the Izalith Staff is good with dark magic
 
     and
 
     C) Why all other witches use dark spells, but the Witch of Izalith and her daughters used fire spells (and, apparently, dark spells)
 
     Because pyromancy and chaos, and now the profaned flame, are just dark magic on fire.
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:56:13 No.156837294 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)22:56:13 No.156837294 ?
 
-    >>156836748 (You)
+    >>156836748
     I don't think the profane flame is the chaos flame, not entirely. The descriptions with the demons say that the chaos flame died long ago and the demon race is on its way out.
 
     I just view the profane flame as the abyss taking the remnants of the old chaos flame and hijacking it. Thats pretty much the MO of the abyss at this point (see pus of man).
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:09:42 No.156838185 ▶>>156838296
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:09:42 No.156838185 ?>>156838296
 
     >>156836270
     >yfw the bats bossroom was just the entirety of smoldering lake, and you had to turn on the arbalest to take down the bat, a combo of Dragon God and Kalameet fight mechanics, the worm thing and old demon king weren't there, this was the actual boss of the Carthus Catacombs/Smoldering lake area
     >you then come up pic related way to irithyll as a back entrance
 
     >carthus catacombs are entered after greatwood
 
     >2 ways into irithyll
 
     >Kill Greatwood, travel carthus, kill Bat/Demon King, come up in Irithyll near the sewer and get ganked on by pontif beast to make your way to church of yorshka
 
     >Kill deacons, kill abysswatchers, which their bossroom and a short treck connects to the irithyll bridge, wher you get ganked on by pontif beast to make your way to church of yorshka
 
     This connects the world and gives more options on how to progress
 
     But, you still would need to kill Abysswatchers for their soul anyway, it just alters the progression you could choose to do things in, your first lord of cinder could be fucking Aldritch, Abysswatchers or Yhorm
 
     fixed gaem
 
-Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:11:55 No.156838296 ▶
+Anonymous 10/07/16(Fri)23:11:55 No.156838296 ?
 File: 20161008124526_1.jpg (738 KB, 2560x1440)
 738 KB
 
     >>156838185
     forgot my pic