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JaysonSunshine

Philosopher

JaysonSunshine
Nov 14th, 2016
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  1. +TonySnark
  2. BlueShift: would you talk about water if you spoke about the oceans? Come on, man.
  3. +BlueShift
  4. thehorror ah, that is our main communication problem tonight, I am not ;/
  5. +FearfulFrenzy
  6. "Now that you've got that worm in you... you'll be taking mine."
  7. +BlueShift
  8. TonySnark it's one of my faults to do such things, please forgive me
  9. +FearfulFrenzy
  10. Talking about water is sometimes relevant when discussing oceans.
  11. Sometimes not.
  12. Choose carefully.
  13. +BlueShift
  14. why?
  15. why choose carefully?
  16. +FearfulFrenzy
  17. If you choose wrongly, you'll fail to discuss relevant topics at a given level of abstraction/complexity as you spend too much time at lower levels of abstraction.
  18. For example, almost every conversation can descend quickly into epistemology.
  19. +BlueShift
  20. what difference would the most important conversation that ever took place in this room even matter in the grand scene of it all?
  21. +FearfulFrenzy
  22. Epistemology is incredibly important -- maybe the most important topic. But most of us have an intuition or desire to discuss other topics, too.
  23. Some conversations must be media res.
  24. in media res*
  25. (To sate the above intuition/desire)
  26. +BlueShift
  27. media res?
  28. +TonySnark
  29. Hi Lania
  30. Ignoring TonySnark!*@*
  31. +BlueShift
  32. memes?
  33. +FearfulFrenzy
  34. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res
  35. A narrative work beginning in medias res (Classical Latin: [ɪn mɛdiaːs reːs], lit. "into the middle things") opens in the midst of action (cf. ab ovo, ab initio).[1] Often, exposition is bypassed and filled in gradually, either through dialogue, flashbacks or description of past events. For example, Hamlet begins after the death of Hamlet's father. Characters make reference to King Hamlet's death without the plot's first establishment of said fact. Since the play focuses on Hamlet and the revenge itself more so than the motivation, Shakespeare utilizes in medias res to bypass superfluous exposition.
  36. Your last question is about 'what should we value?', BlueShift.
  37. ← Sara has quit (Ping timeout)
  38. +FearfulFrenzy
  39. That seems like a reasonable departure from the thread, though we could delve away.
  40. +BlueShift
  41. FearfulFrenzy specifically the value of this obscure room in world of mega social media
  42. +FearfulFrenzy
  43. Evolution made us value things, by default. That orientation seems a cultural universal (nealry)
  44. BlueShift: that alludes to the question "Can anything in the life of a single person or small group of people matter?"
  45. Different answers are possible
  46. If the answer is no, then, no.
  47. If the answer is yes, then, yes, people may find meaning in the conversations they're having with people in their lives
  48. Whether they be flesh or digital
  49. I have gotten smarter from the conversations I've had online
  50. I've been exposed to new ideas I hadn't considered
  51. I've refined pre-existing ideas as they were buffeted by criticism, inquiry and fallacy
  52. +BlueShift
  53. these are small scale influences, I said what does it matter in the grand scheme of it all.
  54. +FearfulFrenzy
  55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dSiL5wSZf4&index=3&list=PL6CE3C5E400D138EA
  56. There is an assumption that there is a grand scheme and that we should consider that when determining value
  57. Those are not necessary assumptions
  58. +BlueShift
  59. it that a butterfly effect analogy?
  60. +FearfulFrenzy
  61. Not intentionally
  62. Sartre resolved the loss of meaning systems in the 19th century, pointed out by Nietzsche and pals, by focusing meaning on the individual
  63. +BlueShift
  64. phrasing could be better I agree, I'm intellectually lazy tonight
  65. +FearfulFrenzy
  66. There are meaning-creating objects, and non-meaning-creating objects
  67. A human is a meaning-creating object, a rock is not
  68. In this construction, meaning in a person can only be self-created or copied from another meaning-object
  69. There is no grand scheme
  70. Meaning is what you have, independent of where it came from
  71. If your meaning contains a grand scheme, then it does, for you
  72. But that grand scheme isn't out there
  73. Pre-modern systems typically espouse grand narratives. Modernity and post-modernity saw the destruction of the grand narrative to be replaced by local narratives
  74. +BlueShift
  75. is see you've gotten hung up on semantics, nice talking to you.
  76. +FearfulFrenzy
  77. This is unsatisfactory for many humans
  78. Ignoring BlueShift!*@*
  79. +FearfulFrenzy
  80. That last response indicates you hate philosophy in an important way
  81. ← THERetroGamerNY has quit (Quit: Be blessed!)
  82. ← BlueShift has quit (Client closed connection)
  83. +FearfulFrenzy
  84. I believe he wanted to defend/analyze his POV
  85. ⓘ Debates set mode +l 66
  86. +FearfulFrenzy
  87. A philosopher is sometimes inclined to point out the larger construction of which the proffered POV is an instance
  88. The intellectual choices and assumptions that generated that particular worldview
  89. There is no attempt to win -- only to understand
  90. For the mind interested in 'winning', this is extremely unsatisfactory
  91. There is no object to hit. Nothing to defeat. The intentionality is not understood. Deceit is assumed.
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