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  1. [11:57:12] #AM: hi everyone today we're going to do workshop on BW OU so basically you guys get to see the process of building for BW OU. Due to it being shorter today we'll build one and I'll poll what you would like to see built around
  2. [11:57:42] A poll was started by AM.
  3. [11:57:49] #AM: I'll leave this poll up for a bit
  4. [11:57:52] #Yellow Paint: poll up!
  5. [11:57:57] #Yellow Paint: err
  6. [11:58:09] LUCK>SKILL was promoted to Room Whitelist by AM.
  7. [11:58:15] #AM: LUCK>SKILL can you confirm if you can tak
  8. [11:58:16] #AM: *talk
  9. [11:58:41] @Finchinator: dont do it it's a trap
  10. [11:58:45] DR Caetano93: lmao
  11. [11:59:05] +Katy: yo bw workshop im in
  12. [11:59:05] #AM: dont think he can anyways whitelist weird
  13. [11:59:07] #AM: hi Finchinator
  14. [11:59:38] @Finchinator: hello
  15. [11:59:52] @Finchinator: dont want to poop on the party but if any input is needed, i'll be around
  16. [12:00:14] #AM: finch that's fine you can pop in and out to give input that would be helpful
  17. [12:00:20] #AM: looking like either rain or weatherless
  18. [12:00:22] LUCK>SKILL: a
  19. [12:00:41] DR Caetano93: FNH want whitelist too
  20. [12:00:43] #AM: I'll close poll in a minute
  21. [12:00:46] @Finchinator: LUCK>SKILL will be introducing us to haxorus today
  22. [12:00:55] FNH was promoted to Room Whitelist by AM.
  23. [12:00:56] LUCK>SKILL: sun not in the poll
  24. [12:00:58] LUCK>SKILL: why am I even here
  25. [12:01:02] DR Caetano93: no hail too
  26. [12:01:07] #AM: zzzz
  27. [12:01:22] #AM: fnh confirm
  28. [12:01:30] FNH: w-less is the only playstyle
  29. [12:01:42] DR Caetano93: mono dragon is the only true bw team
  30. [12:01:48] DR Caetano93: lol
  31. [12:01:54] DR Caetano93: lets go dragmag
  32. [12:01:57] #AM: okay so let's do weatherless how do you guys usually start
  33. [12:02:04] @Finchinator: nah let's go a fringe weathrless balance with a random milotic
  34. [12:02:05] @Finchinator: -finch
  35. [12:02:14] DR Caetano93: that work too
  36. [12:02:15] @Finchinator: (dragmag is lit)
  37. [12:02:21] DR Caetano93: at least if youre facing me in a tour
  38. [12:02:22] DR Caetano93: kek
  39. [12:02:37] LUCK>SKILL: there's only 1 weatherless team I play...
  40. [12:02:47] #AM: is dragmag only weatherless?
  41. [12:02:52] @Finchinator: no
  42. [12:02:53] FNH: no
  43. [12:02:54] @Finchinator: but it's tbhe most common
  44. [12:02:57] DR Caetano93: but its the most reliable
  45. [12:03:03] @Finchinator: so what's cool about dragmag
  46. [12:03:04] #AM: dont mind me will ask lots of questions
  47. [12:03:09] DR Caetano93: np
  48. [12:03:10] @Finchinator: for the 100 or so of you guys who do not know much about it
  49. [12:03:14] @Finchinator: is that dragons in bw are very strong
  50. [12:03:17] @Finchinator: due to the lack of fairy types
  51. [12:03:21] DR Caetano93: ^
  52. [12:03:24] @Finchinator: but steel types are still able to resist them
  53. [12:03:28] LUCK>SKILL: somewhat
  54. [12:03:30] @Finchinator: so magnezone being able to trap them and dissuade spikes set-up
  55. [12:03:31] @Finchinator: is pretty dope
  56. [12:03:58] DR Caetano93: for example, ferrothorn, the best kyuB answer, receiver 45% from band outrage
  57. [12:04:15] #AM: [12:04:08] Ika Ika Musume: how do you work around mamoswine with dragmag
  58. [12:04:24] @Finchinator: that's a really good question
  59. [12:04:28] DR Caetano93: yache berry
  60. [12:04:34] @Finchinator: so some dragmags make use of non-dragon type pokemon alongside magnezone
  61. [12:04:44] @Finchinator: for example, starmie with rapid spin can resist ice shard and ohko it + outrun it
  62. [12:04:52] @Finchinator: keldeo and rotom-w have seen sporadic use, too
  63. [12:05:00] @Finchinator: also, yache berry on dragonite or garchomp
  64. [12:05:02] @Finchinator: shuca berry on jirachi
  65. [12:05:06] +Katy: isnt jirachi also common
  66. [12:05:09] +Katy: oh ya
  67. [12:05:12] @Finchinator: DR Caetano93 and LUCK>SKILL prob have more experience playing around them though
  68. [12:05:25] LUCK>SKILL: I don't even remember the last time I used dragmag
  69. [12:05:47] +Katy: I use it the most often tbh
  70. [12:06:17] @Finchinator: another cool thing is
  71. [12:06:18] DR Caetano93: the best way to answer mamoswine is having ice resist berry, or ways to avoid earthquake ohko
  72. [12:06:21] #AM: are weatherless like the ones dice used effective, the one that isnt dragmag?
  73. [12:06:25] @Finchinator: you can fit mamoswine on to your dragmag
  74. [12:06:27] @Finchinator: if you wan
  75. [12:06:28] @Finchinator: t
  76. [12:06:36] #AM: it was like rotom, exca, volca something forgot the whole team
  77. [12:06:38] DR Caetano93: like shuca berry jirachi or fast spread jirachi to iron head first
  78. [12:06:41] @Finchinator: that type of team is inconsistent
  79. [12:06:47] DR Caetano93: mamoswine is the most dificulkt mu a dragmag can face
  80. [12:06:48] @Finchinator: but it can work
  81. [12:06:50] #AM: yeah cause I never see them
  82. [12:06:51] DR Caetano93: but is not unwinable
  83. [12:06:51] @Finchinator: it's just a tad flimsy
  84. [12:07:25] #AM: okay so as far as build goes
  85. [12:07:31] #AM: how would you guys start off
  86. [12:07:35] LUCK>SKILL: the dragons
  87. [12:07:35] +pikachulover98: skarmbliss
  88. [12:07:36] @Finchinator: we talking dragmag
  89. [12:07:38] LUCK>SKILL: determine everything
  90. [12:07:39] #AM: idea is to make a general build today
  91. [12:07:39] LUCK>SKILL: on the team
  92. [12:07:40] @Finchinator: or n
  93. [12:07:42] #AM: yeah weatherless build
  94. [12:07:44] @Finchinator: ok so
  95. [12:07:46] LUCK>SKILL: on dragmag that is
  96. [12:07:50] @Finchinator: you want to pick a focal dragon
  97. [12:07:52] @Finchinator: and then build from there
  98. [12:07:55] DR Caetano93: something happened here, im back in 10 mins
  99. [12:07:59] +Katy: lets pick garchomp
  100. [12:07:59] #AM: I'll save edits in builder as I go for sake of workshop
  101. [12:08:04] #AM: DR Caetano93 no worries
  102. [12:08:04] +Katy: and go from there
  103. [12:08:07] @Finchinator: can we make another poll
  104. [12:08:09] @Finchinator: for the dragon
  105. [12:08:12] +Nal Or Ium? ″: ^
  106. [12:08:15] #AM: yes
  107. [12:08:18] @Finchinator: dnite / chomp / kyub / lati / mence
  108. [12:08:20] @Finchinator: ig
  109. [12:08:21] #AM: finch you might be able to do it
  110. [12:08:22] #AM: lol
  111. [12:08:23] @Finchinator: could throw in haxorus
  112. [12:08:26] @Finchinator: yea but idk the command
  113. [12:08:28] #AM: ok
  114. [12:09:00] A poll was started by AM.
  115. [12:09:02] #Yellow Paint: what are the options?
  116. [12:09:02] #Yellow Paint: ah
  117. [12:09:07] #AM: was typing my bad
  118. [12:09:29] #AM: i'll close soonish
  119. [12:09:33] @Finchinator: give it
  120. [12:09:35] #Yellow Paint: well we're having multiple dragons right
  121. [12:09:36] @Finchinator: 3 mins
  122. [12:09:41] #AM: yep
  123. [12:09:44] #Yellow Paint: so it's not necessarily just the one
  124. [12:09:45] LUCK>SKILL: yeah but this one iwll be the main one
  125. [12:09:52] LUCK>SKILL: like the one you want to sweep with
  126. [12:11:05] @Finchinator: so now
  127. [12:11:09] @Finchinator: if we're building around latios
  128. [12:11:12] @Finchinator: we got 2 options basically
  129. [12:11:13] @Finchinator: well, 3
  130. [12:11:16] @Finchinator: we can be ballers
  131. [12:11:19] @Finchinator: and use the dragon gem set
  132. [12:11:19] LUCK>SKILL: dd latios
  133. [12:11:23] @Finchinator: or use a choice set
  134. [12:11:24] @Finchinator: or dd, yea
  135. [12:11:26] @Finchinator: which is viable with zone
  136. [12:11:29] @Finchinator: but more fringe
  137. [12:11:35] FNH: choice specs latios imo
  138. [12:11:53] #AM: you should build around whatever you guys think will work tbh
  139. [12:11:57] DR Caetano93: back
  140. [12:12:06] +Nal Or Ium? ″: I'll go for CM Lati
  141. [12:12:09] #AM: going to end poll now
  142. [12:12:13] DR Caetano93: not a dd set for new players lol
  143. [12:12:19] @Finchinator: well
  144. [12:12:19] #AM: yeah probably not dragon dance
  145. [12:12:24] @Finchinator: if we want this team to be consistent
  146. [12:12:27] @Finchinator: scarf, specs, and dgem
  147. [12:12:29] @Finchinator: are best
  148. [12:12:52] #AM: lets go with consistency just as an educational tool, the out there tecs can be hard to grasp for newer playrs to the forma
  149. [12:12:54] #AM: *format
  150. [12:12:59] DR Caetano93: CM is awesome to break balance but scarf is the best way to deal with opposing dragmags
  151. [12:13:09] LUCK>SKILL: alright if you are new to the gen here's a guide: give latios specs send it in and click draco meteor every time
  152. [12:13:17] DR Caetano93: that work too
  153. [12:13:18] DR Caetano93: lol
  154. [12:13:21] LUCK>SKILL: only loses when you miss
  155. [12:13:22] #AM: whats funny is that isnt a joke
  156. [12:13:23] #AM: lol
  157. [12:13:26] +Katy: how about scarf so we simultzaniously have speed control?
  158. [12:13:59] DR Caetano93: its ok for me
  159. [12:14:03] #AM: so on top of what katy said maybe a general idea of how you guys want build to look
  160. [12:14:14] #AM: like the mons you want
  161. [12:14:29] #AM: and what needs to be covered
  162. [12:14:36] LUCK>SKILL: alright usually you want 3 dragons + magnezone + spin + sr lead
  163. [12:14:41] DR Caetano93: ^
  164. [12:14:42] @Finchinator: you dont need spin rly
  165. [12:14:43] @Finchinator: but yea
  166. [12:14:54] DR Caetano93: you can even drop the spin if youre not using a lot of SR weak mons
  167. [12:15:20] #AM: no kyurem/dragonite to start with gives more freedom in that department I suppose but I assume you would still use one of them right?
  168. [12:15:28] LUCK>SKILL: you will have
  169. [12:15:36] LUCK>SKILL: one of kyurem dnite or salemence
  170. [12:15:37] LUCK>SKILL: on dragmag
  171. [12:15:40] DR Caetano93: sr lead + balloon zone +speed control + 2 setup sweepers + filler is the standart
  172. [12:15:43] #AM: what about chomp?
  173. [12:15:49] LUCK>SKILL: yeah that's the 3rd drago
  174. [12:15:50] LUCK>SKILL: n
  175. [12:15:58] #AM: im just trying to understand the different applications and cool
  176. [12:16:21] LUCK>SKILL: the poll has 3 sr mons out of 5 (6 if you include latias which is too weak for dragmag usually)
  177. [12:16:22] DR Caetano93: Kyurem-B is a dragon that didn't interfer with having a spinner or not
  178. [12:16:37] DR Caetano93: since most of the times it will be clicking outrage and baiting the opposing team speed control
  179. [12:16:42] @Finchinator: ^
  180. [12:16:43] @Finchinator: agree
  181. [12:16:46] @Finchinator: dnite is more spin reliant
  182. [12:16:47] @Finchinator: than say
  183. [12:16:47] @Finchinator: kyub
  184. [12:16:47] LUCK>SKILL: fair
  185. [12:16:49] @Finchinator: despite both sr weak
  186. [12:17:23] #AM: so I guess we're okay with scarf latios here and then figuring out the framework with what DR Caetano93 put?
  187. [12:17:30] LUCK>SKILL: yes that's fine
  188. [12:17:32] DR Caetano93: kyurem function in a team is to pick at least 1 ko and info about opposing sets
  189. [12:17:45] #AM: [12:17:34] Ika Ika Musume: Is it possible to run Hydreigon as one of your dragons?
  190. [12:17:50] DR Caetano93: yes
  191. [12:18:00] DR Caetano93: but not very common since its a bit slow
  192. [12:18:10] @Finchinator: the issue w dreigon is
  193. [12:18:14] @Finchinator: it arguably is redundant w zone
  194. [12:18:17] @Finchinator: as you use it to ause coverage
  195. [12:18:20] @Finchinator: like fire focus
  196. [12:18:25] DR Caetano93: that too
  197. [12:18:27] @Finchinator: when zone traps the pkmn you use the coverage for
  198. [12:18:30] @Finchinator: hydre is more viable on sands
  199. [12:18:33] LUCK>SKILL: yeah hydra is a bit weird to run in dragmag
  200. [12:18:34] @Finchinator: even there it's fringe, but yea
  201. [12:18:40] Ika Ika Musume was promoted to Room Whitelist by AM.
  202. [12:18:49] #AM: i'm whitelisting since you're asking some good questions
  203. [12:18:50] @Finchinator: ig you could run scarf hydre on dragmag with a spinner if you really want to focus on having an RKer that's not pursuit weak
  204. [12:18:52] @Finchinator: but at that point
  205. [12:18:57] @Finchinator: garchomp is your best bet as a scarfer
  206. [12:18:58] Ika Ika Musume: Yea it makes sense
  207. [12:19:01] @Finchinator: so it's hard to justify
  208. [12:19:09] %t04ster: !code
  209. [12:15:21] Coolcodename: I’ve never played bw but wbu tentacru
  210. [12:15:27] Coolcodename: *tentacrule
  211. [12:15:51] Coolcodename: As a spinner tbh IK nothing
  212. [12:19:21] DR Caetano93: run scarf hydra + salac chomp :)
  213. [12:19:22] %t04ster: my pms will be open for suggestions like this
  214. [12:19:25] #Yellow Paint: isn't starmie just better?
  215. [12:19:28] Ika Ika Musume: Id assume Tentacruel is significantly worse without rain
  216. [12:19:32] %t04ster: yeah idt tentacruel is justifiable
  217. [12:19:34] %t04ster: at all
  218. [12:19:38] @Finchinator: tenta is only viable on rain
  219. [12:19:44] @Finchinator: starmie is ok on dragmag
  220. [12:20:06] DR Caetano93: starmie is good in dragmags because it can drop the spin function and be a breaker
  221. [12:20:10] #AM: if anyone can help put together paste on staff that would be great I can to just figuring out options we're using as chat goes on
  222. [12:20:13] LUCK>SKILL: tentacruel without rain can't ever pull spin off vs jellicent
  223. [12:20:18] LUCK>SKILL: that's the main issue
  224. [12:20:19] DR Caetano93: similar to how excadrill work since it pressure rotom with mold breaker
  225. [12:20:22] LUCK>SKILL: because you lose that 1v1 super hard
  226. [12:21:01] @Finchinator: DR Caetano93
  227. [12:21:06] @Finchinator: do you wanna work on creating the paste
  228. [12:21:10] @Finchinator: so i can continue to eat my sandwich
  229. [12:21:11] @Finchinator: oo
  230. [12:21:16] FNH: i can
  231. [12:21:18] @Finchinator: or u
  232. [12:21:19] @Finchinator: epic
  233. [12:21:23] DR Caetano93: let fnh do it
  234. [12:21:28] @Finchinator: yy
  235. [12:21:35] #AM: if I was more familiar sets I would be comfortable doing it
  236. [12:21:37] %estarossa: jel of sandwich
  237. [12:22:10] #AM: sr lead + balloon zone +speed control + 2 setup sweepers + filler is the standart
  238. [12:22:20] #AM: just c/ping for myself not to lose track
  239. [12:22:30] #AM: even if it goes in slightly different direction
  240. [12:22:45] #AM: so latios is the speed control I suppose with scarf, you'll have mag
  241. [12:22:50] DR Caetano93: its the basic for dragmag or ho wless with no dragons
  242. [12:22:54] #AM: then have to cover everything else
  243. [12:23:02] #AM: word
  244. [12:23:03] DR Caetano93: this is the formula you want to use
  245. [12:23:24] LUCK>SKILL: you can drop dedicated speed control on regular HO if you have strong priorities
  246. [12:23:32] DR Caetano93: if you're using smurf, you drop the zone
  247. [12:23:54] LUCK>SKILL: but dragmag realistically only has 1 prio, 2 at best
  248. [12:23:57] FNH: finch caetano, to get it on the record, we want 3 attacks and trick on Latios
  249. [12:24:01] FNH: can you explain why
  250. [12:24:07] FNH: why these 4 moves
  251. [12:24:14] #AM: for everyones reference point that is unaware smurf is the starmie, garchomp, volcarona, breloom, scizor build correct?
  252. [12:24:18] LUCK>SKILL: correct
  253. [12:24:24] DR Caetano93: because recover on latios in an ho does nothing, you want dragon pulse to pressure opposing teams
  254. [12:24:35] FNH: why trick though
  255. [12:24:40] DR Caetano93: draco meteor because is broken
  256. [12:24:41] FNH: it isnt as intuitive
  257. [12:24:49] DR Caetano93: surf to hit ttar, excadrill and heatran
  258. [12:24:55] +Nal Or Ium? ″: Hey, sorry, I've had some connection problems. I read that we were building around scarf lati right?
  259. [12:24:58] LUCK>SKILL: trick is for reuniclus mostly
  260. [12:25:02] Ika Ika Musume: yes I believe so
  261. [12:25:03] LUCK>SKILL: if it goes out of hand
  262. [12:25:06] #AM: Nal Or Ium yes dragmag
  263. [12:25:06] DR Caetano93: trick is to pressure more balance builds, like celebi + gastrodon
  264. [12:25:12] +Nal Or Ium? ″: kk
  265. [12:25:13] DR Caetano93: where you don't need the speed at all
  266. [12:25:19] LUCK>SKILL: like your kyub died early game to break some holes but they managed to keep reuniclus healthy
  267. [12:25:32] LUCK>SKILL: tricking it is your best bet at that point
  268. [12:25:45] DR Caetano93: ^
  269. [12:25:52] #AM: makes sense
  270. [12:25:53] FNH: perfect
  271. [12:25:59] @Finchinator: as a player
  272. [12:26:00] @Finchinator: and as a move
  273. [12:26:01] @Finchinator: yea
  274. [12:26:10] FNH: so we just have scarf latios as our one choice
  275. [12:26:14] #AM: magnezone what does that usually run with the balloon variant
  276. [12:26:17] DR Caetano93: trick also let you have a way to deal with volcarona or other speed oosting mons
  277. [12:26:19] FNH: what do you add next
  278. [12:26:20] LUCK>SKILL: look tricking the player would tell me to use twave on scarf latios
  279. [12:26:24] @Finchinator: tbolt / hp fire / mrise / sunnyd ay
  280. [12:26:30] @Finchinator: is common on balloon
  281. [12:26:33] @Finchinator: and dragmag hates drill
  282. [12:26:36] @Finchinator: so balloon is best prob
  283. [12:26:36] @Finchinator: but
  284. [12:26:37] LUCK>SKILL: yeah that's the typical set
  285. [12:26:39] @Finchinator: chople is ok to eat zam
  286. [12:26:46] LUCK>SKILL: however you will learn the hard way
  287. [12:26:52] LUCK>SKILL: that trapping exca is hard
  288. [12:26:55] LUCK>SKILL: even with that set
  289. [12:27:04] DR Caetano93: only drop the air balloon if your team doesn't care at al to trap excadrill
  290. [12:27:06] #AM: I would assume its more for ferro really
  291. [12:27:12] DR Caetano93: since this is huge for most dragons
  292. [12:27:17] LUCK>SKILL: yeah ferro and skarm are your top priority
  293. [12:27:26] LUCK>SKILL: exca doesn't take choiced dragon moves that well
  294. [12:27:28] +Katy: ferro gives latios pain ya we need zone to remove it
  295. [12:27:47] +Katy: since we use scarf and tehrefore dont have imemdiate power
  296. [12:27:56] #AM: well on the that point
  297. [12:28:02] FNH: sunny day zone is prefered
  298. [12:28:05] FNH: i would assume
  299. [12:28:07] DR Caetano93: ^
  300. [12:28:11] FNH: so ferro doesnt stack on you in the rain
  301. [12:28:16] DR Caetano93: never run a dragmag with no sunny day zone
  302. [12:28:18] +Katy: ya
  303. [12:28:27] #AM: ok so lets assume those sets for now
  304. [12:28:35] #AM: we can work out ev details later if need be
  305. [12:28:40] LUCK>SKILL: yeah plus you force them to reset their weather with sunny day
  306. [12:28:44] FNH: now if you are going sunny day, caetano do you go 3 attacks or mag rise
  307. [12:28:44] DR Caetano93: zone run max max with modest
  308. [12:28:46] FNH: and why
  309. [12:28:53] #AM: on to katys point what are the breaker options and SR options either or first
  310. [12:29:08] #AM: fnhs question first
  311. [12:29:14] @Finchinator: mrise
  312. [12:29:16] LUCK>SKILL: flash cannon is useless
  313. [12:29:16] DR Caetano93: the breakers avries acording to what mon youre using for the SR slot
  314. [12:29:19] @Finchinator: mrise is cool cuz
  315. [12:29:28] @Finchinator: of drill
  316. [12:29:38] @Finchinator: esp if u have icy wind jira as a teammate, then u dont even need to dodge flinch
  317. [12:29:40] @Finchinator: but also, think ab it
  318. [12:29:44] @Finchinator: they have to spin or iron to break balloon
  319. [12:29:45] @Finchinator: u mrise
  320. [12:29:49] @Finchinator: then they protect, u sunny day
  321. [12:29:51] @Finchinator: then u spam hp fire
  322. [12:29:56] @Finchinator: they die if they dont trip prot or flinch w dub
  323. [12:29:59] #AM: mrise = magnet rise, you dodge ground moves
  324. [12:30:05] DR Caetano93: mrise is also cool because lando-t and garchomp can't revenge ko you back
  325. [12:30:05] @Finchinator: thanks sherlock
  326. [12:30:17] FNH: yes thank you finch and caetano
  327. [12:30:18] FNH: and luck
  328. [12:30:32] #AM: its not a common used move in later gens so just to make sure the newer users are aware
  329. [12:30:37] LUCK>SKILL: mrise limits revenge kill options too, for example they can't just go to their defensive landorus-t after losing ferro. you might force a worse play out of them
  330. [12:31:00] +Katy: true
  331. [12:31:07] #AM: !code
  332. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  333. Ability: Levitate
  334. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature
  335. [12:31:16] FNH: this is the team so far
  336. [12:31:20] #AM: missing 4 evs on mag nw though
  337. [12:31:29] FNH: ye not perfect
  338. [12:31:35] Ika Ika Musume: would it not also be useful vs. teams with both ferrothorn and excadrill such as sands
  339. [12:31:36] #AM: ye no problemo
  340. [12:31:36] FNH: so we have 1 drag 1 mag
  341. [12:31:47] #AM: DR Caetano93 made a point the breakers are dependent on the SR user
  342. [12:31:51] LUCK>SKILL: yeah, we have enough mags
  343. [12:31:57] FNH: how would i move forward from here
  344. [12:32:09] +Katy: isnt mamoswine recently gaining in popularity?
  345. [12:32:11] #AM: so I would assume we consider the Stealth Rock setter
  346. [12:32:20] DR Caetano93: the most commons SR users for dragmags are jirachi, garchomp, landorus-t, skarmory, excadrill
  347. [12:32:41] DR Caetano93: because even with the SR job, they can pressure the opposing team
  348. [12:32:53] +Nal Or Ium? ″: we should add a set-up sweeper and SR yea ^
  349. [12:33:13] #AM: how do you cover terrakion with these sort of builds, speed control?
  350. [12:33:19] LUCK>SKILL: I see jirachi the most
  351. [12:33:29] LUCK>SKILL: followed by the others
  352. [12:33:31] +Katy: maybe we can really cghose landot for the terrak issue?
  353. [12:33:49] DR Caetano93: terrak is a very dificult mon to be deal with a dragmag
  354. [12:33:58] @Finchinator: am: speed control, potential for landot
  355. [12:34:03] DR Caetano93: but normally garchomp and latios are the mons used for it
  356. [12:34:05] #AM: makes sense
  357. [12:34:06] @Finchinator: but dragmag is usually weak to terrak
  358. [12:34:08] LUCK>SKILL: your sr user is going ot die very early in such a build
  359. [12:34:43] FNH: going full offense, like this team, you just have to forgo some form of defensive solidity and be weak to say terrakion? am i correct?
  360. [12:34:46] DR Caetano93: jirachi is the most common SR
  361. [12:34:55] DR Caetano93: because it can do almost everything with it moveset
  362. [12:35:02] DR Caetano93: the second most common is garchomp
  363. [12:35:06] #AM: wanna try jirachi and go from there?
  364. [12:35:13] LUCK>SKILL: yah you will rely on revenge killing
  365. [12:35:14] LUCK>SKILL: vs a lot of stuff
  366. [12:35:18] +Katy: ya im ok with rachi, if anyone else is ok w it
  367. [12:35:19] Ika Ika Musume: My assumption would be that rk is important
  368. [12:35:23] #AM: do you think its better to figure out movesets on jirachi after you place other mons?
  369. [12:35:29] DR Caetano93: yes
  370. [12:35:32] LUCK>SKILL: yes, because jirachi is so versatile
  371. [12:35:36] DR Caetano93: because there is 2 main jirachi sets
  372. [12:35:42] DR Caetano93: uturn + iron head
  373. [12:35:43] LUCK>SKILL: aside from SR, the other 3 can be picked depending on the rest of hte team
  374. [12:35:43] +Nal Or Ium? ″: in what kind of situations is energy ball preferred over thunder?
  375. [12:35:45] DR Caetano93: or full special
  376. [12:36:02] LUCK>SKILL: when you really want to chip rotomw for stuff like scarfchomp
  377. [12:36:08] LUCK>SKILL: or when you want to kill gastrodon
  378. [12:36:25] DR Caetano93: eball is for teams that struggle with rotom-w, gastrodon, seismitoad
  379. [12:36:34] LUCK>SKILL: thunder misses and your main target is skarm whom you can trap mag anyway
  380. [12:36:42] DR Caetano93: ^
  381. [12:36:54] Ika Ika Musume: would it not make more sense
  382. [12:36:54] DR Caetano93: thunder is more a anti rain tech
  383. [12:36:54] FNH was promoted to Room Voice by AM.
  384. [12:36:58] Ika Ika Musume: to flesh out the team
  385. [12:36:58] LUCK>SKILL: on the other hand thunder can spread paralysis so it's not a bad move per se
  386. [12:36:58] #AM: fnh going to temp voice
  387. [12:37:03] +FNH: so for now you all think SR, U-turn, I Head
  388. [12:37:04] Ika Ika Musume: then go back to jirachi set specifics
  389. [12:37:04] #AM: so you can code when you need to
  390. [12:37:04] LUCK>SKILL: yeah that's what we were going for
  391. [12:37:12] LUCK>SKILL: we only have sr on rachi tam
  392. [12:37:13] LUCK>SKILL: atm
  393. [12:37:18] LUCK>SKILL: rachi mag latios.
  394. [12:37:56] +FNH: !code
  395. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  396. Ability: Levitate
  397. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  398. [12:37:59] #AM: alright so the last 3 slots and then figuring out rachis move set/spread I assume is the flowchart?
  399. [12:38:05] DR Caetano93: y
  400. [12:38:06] +FNH: yes
  401. [12:38:15] @Finchinator: it needs icy wind
  402. [12:38:17] @Finchinator: w the zone
  403. [12:38:20] @Finchinator: for the drill interaction
  404. [12:38:22] @Finchinator: imo.
  405. [12:38:31] +Katy: so rocks + icy wind so far
  406. [12:38:38] DR Caetano93: next we need a ground-type, so thundurus-t don't spam thunder unpunished and to have ways to stop voltturn chains
  407. [12:38:57] #AM: besides garchomp what are the options normally
  408. [12:39:09] +FNH: lando and mamo seem interesting
  409. [12:39:10] DR Caetano93: mamoswine, landorus-t, excadrill
  410. [12:39:30] DR Caetano93: garchomp is the prefered one, since it can pressure anything with it SD set
  411. [12:39:52] #AM: I like chomp for the breaker capabilities personally but whatever you guys think is best
  412. [12:39:55] +FNH: caetano why SD and not other sets like LO
  413. [12:40:00] DR Caetano93: excadrill gives you a spin option, mamoswine and lando are more counter pciks than solid ones
  414. [12:40:17] DR Caetano93: because SD set let you use a better item to cover your team weakness
  415. [12:40:22] DR Caetano93: like yache berry
  416. [12:40:27] %t04ster: !code
  417. [12:39:39] ElRamond: https://pokepast.es/5b088c33f2281376
  418. [12:39:46] ElRamond: just a classi dd haxo
  419. [12:39:52] ElRamond: but it's great fun
  420. [12:40:30] DR Caetano93: or a salac berry for another speed control option
  421. [12:40:44] phosphor was promoted to Room Whitelist by AM.
  422. [12:40:53] %t04ster: i think its easier to secondarily code the set
  423. [12:40:54] %t04ster: !code
  424. Haxorus @ Lum Berry
  425. Ability: Mold Breaker
  426. EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
  427. [12:40:57] DR Caetano93: and with magnezone, you don't need to break steel types with fire blast
  428. [12:41:03] +Katy: dd haxo can work on this build but i think garchomp is better for now as we need smth to combat thundurus-t
  429. [12:41:04] %t04ster: someone wondering if this is salvageable
  430. [12:41:10] LUCK>SKILL: I think
  431. [12:41:14] LUCK>SKILL: haxorus needs both dd and sd.
  432. [12:41:19] DR Caetano93: ^
  433. [12:41:25] phosphor: the ground type has another importance, mag doesnt trap rachi so unless you team can constantly for rachi in you need one that can not lose momentum vs it
  434. [12:41:39] DR Caetano93: thats too
  435. [12:41:48] phosphor: lefties drill sd chomp etc
  436. [12:42:01] phosphor: scarfchomp is really nice for dragmag but thats a particular vulnerability
  437. [12:42:16] DR Caetano93: scarf chomp in ho is good to counter alakazam
  438. [12:42:22] phosphor: ye
  439. [12:42:33] +Katy: ya dual chop breaks pot sashes
  440. [12:42:33] #AM: hm so I guess what do we go for
  441. [12:42:41] +Katy: which is neat
  442. [12:42:44] #AM: considering the last two slots still need to be filled
  443. [12:42:46] +FNH: but shouldnt rachi and scarf latios already do the trick vs alakazam
  444. [12:42:54] DR Caetano93: yes, they do
  445. [12:42:55] @Finchinator: not rly
  446. [12:42:59] @Finchinator: jira dies young
  447. [12:43:01] @Finchinator: lati gets trapped
  448. [12:43:05] +FNH: i see
  449. [12:43:16] DR Caetano93: jira dies young if its not leftovers
  450. [12:43:18] phosphor: since lati is scarf i want another guy that can handle keld
  451. [12:43:19] +Katy: r u guys ok with chomper?
  452. [12:43:19] @Finchinator: u want 1 more pkmn that at least isnt ohko'd after hazards
  453. [12:43:22] @Finchinator: like yache chomp
  454. [12:43:33] +FNH: i do like yache chomp
  455. [12:43:36] +Katy: that is a neat tech Finch, i like yachie chomp
  456. [12:43:36] #AM: I like garchomp
  457. [12:43:36] +FNH: its versatile
  458. [12:43:46] phosphor: and takes a hit from thundy
  459. [12:43:51] +Katy: y
  460. [12:43:52] @Finchinator: that's not a tech
  461. [12:43:54] @Finchinator: it's standard
  462. [12:43:56] +Nal Or Ium? ″: we could add garchomp + sub yache here and that would fulfill the role of our set-up sweeper right?
  463. [12:44:00] +Katy: it is standard?
  464. [12:44:00] LUCK>SKILL: also lets you not die to mamoswine
  465. [12:44:05] @Finchinator: yache chomp is common as shit ya
  466. [12:44:12] LUCK>SKILL: don't know about sub
  467. [12:44:18] @Finchinator: sub is fine but so is atail
  468. [12:44:19] LUCK>SKILL: I'd say run dual chop + outrage + eq
  469. [12:44:23] LUCK>SKILL: or that
  470. [12:44:23] phosphor: hmm
  471. [12:44:31] DR Caetano93: sub have good usage
  472. [12:44:31] @Finchinator: dual dragon is ok but atail hits landot scor
  473. [12:44:33] @Finchinator: which u tend to outrage
  474. [12:44:44] DR Caetano93: but the standart is dchop, outrage, quake, sd
  475. [12:44:49] phosphor: if we're goign with jira scarftios mag yachchomp
  476. [12:44:56] @Finchinator: dual dragon is absolutely not the standard
  477. [12:44:57] +Nal Or Ium? ″: and how common is it to see double scarf in dragmag?
  478. [12:45:06] DR Caetano93: its what i see the most
  479. [12:45:07] DR Caetano93: lol
  480. [12:45:07] phosphor: we'd have to fit in kyub then mie right
  481. [12:45:08] @Finchinator: there rly is no standard 4th slot on yache chomp
  482. [12:45:11] @Finchinator: i've seen it 2 times ever
  483. [12:45:19] @Finchinator: and i've played tens of thousands of games
  484. [12:45:25] @Finchinator: it's not bad but calling it standard is misleading imo
  485. [12:45:30] @Finchinator: the options are sub atail outrage and sr
  486. [12:45:33] @Finchinator: but this team doesnt need sr
  487. [12:45:35] @Finchinator: so the first 3
  488. [12:45:43] @Finchinator: really any of them work but theyre all team speciifc, none are standard
  489. [12:45:43] Ika Ika Musume: sub seems to be more conducive to salac surely?
  490. [12:45:44] @Finchinator: specific*
  491. [12:45:47] @Finchinator: nah
  492. [12:45:49] @Finchinator: sub works w any set
  493. [12:45:56] Ika Ika Musume: fair enough
  494. [12:46:00] DR Caetano93: sub is amazing versus rotom-w for example
  495. [12:46:03] @Finchinator: think ab it like this
  496. [12:46:08] @Finchinator: u're in vs a protect mon
  497. [12:46:10] @Finchinator: or a rotomw
  498. [12:46:12] @Finchinator: u sub on prot or wisp
  499. [12:46:14] @Finchinator: -> gg
  500. [12:46:14] DR Caetano93: you sub in the wisp and now they need to hit multiple hydros
  501. [12:46:14] Ika Ika Musume: I could see that for sure
  502. [12:46:26] #AM: lets go with sub for now?
  503. [12:46:30] DR Caetano93: y
  504. [12:46:31] +Nal Or Ium? ″: yep
  505. [12:46:33] #AM: ok
  506. [12:46:39] phosphor: agree with sub
  507. [12:46:46] +Nal Or Ium? ″: yache right? or salac
  508. [12:46:54] phosphor: i lean towards yache more
  509. [12:47:05] DR Caetano93: also, just to be safe, don't mess with adamant garchomp
  510. [12:47:07] +FNH: !code
  511. Garchomp @ Yache Berry
  512. Ability: Sand Veil
  513. - Earthquake
  514. [12:47:11] +FNH: no evs
  515. [12:47:13] DR Caetano93: you want to be faster than tentacruel
  516. [12:47:18] +FNH: but it should be jolly
  517. [12:47:18] LUCK>SKILL: also fix the trait
  518. [12:47:24] LUCK>SKILL: sand veil is banned
  519. [12:47:30] #AM: thought it was subsd?
  520. [12:47:39] phosphor: yeah
  521. [12:47:41] phosphor: subsd
  522. [12:47:44] LUCK>SKILL: lol
  523. [12:47:48] DR Caetano93: lmao
  524. [12:47:51] DR Caetano93: sub 3 atks
  525. [12:47:58] @Finchinator: there are a lot of things wron with this set kids
  526. [12:48:02] @Finchinator: first off, sand veil is banned
  527. [12:48:06] @Finchinator: second off, there is no sd
  528. [12:48:08] @Finchinator: dont try this one at home
  529. [12:48:16] +FNH: i was going to ask to what i had wrong
  530. [12:48:17] #AM: is it just outrage/eq, sub,sd?
  531. [12:48:18] +FNH: apologies
  532. [12:48:21] LUCK>SKILL: yes
  533. [12:48:22] LUCK>SKILL: dual stabs
  534. [12:48:23] @Finchinator: i'd just use
  535. [12:48:27] @Finchinator: dual stab
  536. [12:48:29] @Finchinator: if u rly want outrage
  537. [12:48:33] @Finchinator: to me it's
  538. [12:48:40] #AM: uh or dragon claw idk what it runs
  539. [12:48:43] #AM: so jw
  540. [12:48:47] @Finchinator: sd / eq / dclaw or dual chop / outrage or aqua tail or sub
  541. [12:48:52] DR Caetano93: ^
  542. [12:49:04] @Finchinator: w yache dual chop is fine
  543. [12:49:06] @Finchinator: for sash zam
  544. [12:49:08] DR Caetano93: you don't want to be locked into outrage
  545. [12:49:14] @Finchinator: but it sucks if u dual chop into rh or iron barbs
  546. [12:49:15] phosphor: i assume yache makes it so that you don't need outrage's extra power to get through lefties lando?
  547. [12:49:15] @Finchinator: but we have zone
  548. [12:49:17] @Finchinator: so that's fine
  549. [12:49:24] DR Caetano93: y
  550. [12:49:30] #AM: yache seems like insurance in general
  551. [12:49:53] @Finchinator: [12:49:48] Coolcodename: Can u guys send a team update in chat having a hard time keeping up
  552. [12:49:56] #AM: so can we go dual chop, eq, sub, sd?
  553. [12:50:01] +FNH: yes
  554. [12:50:06] @Finchinator: ok
  555. [12:50:07] +FNH: thats it where i am at
  556. [12:50:24] phosphor: dual chop yache chomp+ jira+ scarftios, fuck zam i guess
  557. [12:50:26] #AM: can you paste and then we can figure out last two
  558. [12:50:36] +FNH: !code
  559. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  560. Ability: Levitate
  561. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  562. [12:50:59] +FNH: can someone explain why not adamant briefly?
  563. [12:51:06] +FNH: on garchomp
  564. [12:51:08] #AM: the speed tier I think?
  565. [12:51:14] DR Caetano93: i did earlier
  566. [12:51:15] #AM: cause adamant doesnt outrun thundy-rt
  567. [12:51:20] DR Caetano93: you want to outspeed tentacruel
  568. [12:51:21] +FNH: ye
  569. [12:51:22] +Katy: ull get outsped by thundy-t i think
  570. [12:51:24] #AM: oh right
  571. [12:51:44] DR Caetano93: thundy-t run modest
  572. [12:51:45] phosphor: and rarely, jolly lando
  573. [12:51:49] #AM: ic
  574. [12:51:51] DR Caetano93: its tentacruel the main target
  575. [12:51:58] phosphor: i was thinking about that, thundy doesnt usually hit 303
  576. [12:52:00] LUCK>SKILL: adamant makes you slower than landorus-t which is baddy bad, tentacruel too yeah
  577. [12:52:10] LUCK>SKILL: offensive thundurus-t still exists too
  578. [12:52:28] #AM: I'm assuming you would punish the pursuit/lati interaction with sub garchomp, so what needs to be covered on last two slots?
  579. [12:52:30] Ika Ika Musume: Youd be outsped by any + natured pokemon with a higher base speed than excadrill
  580. [12:52:43] +FNH: indeed
  581. [12:52:49] LUCK>SKILL: another dragon
  582. [12:52:49] +FNH: so we have a solid 4
  583. [12:52:56] +FNH: ye
  584. [12:52:58] +FNH: another dragon
  585. [12:52:59] phosphor: in the last two slots, mamo is still annoying, keld is still annoying, and we still need a spinner
  586. [12:53:07] #AM: need something secondary for latios right?
  587. [12:53:13] +FNH: do we actually need to spin phos
  588. [12:53:13] +Nal Or Ium? ″: we don't really need a spinner tbh
  589. [12:53:14] +FNH: why tho
  590. [12:53:16] #AM: cause rachi not going to last long
  591. [12:53:24] phosphor: hm
  592. [12:53:30] phosphor: fair point we dont need spin yet
  593. [12:53:44] +Nal Or Ium? ″: ^
  594. [12:53:47] DR Caetano93: i say we go for alakazam
  595. [12:53:53] +FNH: what are we missing that the 3rd dragon would add
  596. [12:53:57] +FNH: or alakazam
  597. [12:54:00] #AM: I like zam
  598. [12:54:15] +FNH: why though
  599. [12:54:15] DR Caetano93: sash user for control, solves our psy problem, work well in an ho
  600. [12:54:35] +FNH: so fast speed + you always have to hit it twice
  601. [12:54:41] DR Caetano93: y
  602. [12:54:44] #AM: would we be running psychic, focus blast, signal, hp ice?
  603. [12:54:48] phosphor: zam adds second keld check, lures in tar for scarftios, and we have subsd chomp to cunvert jira into momentum so i like this idea
  604. [12:55:11] DR Caetano93: yes AM
  605. [12:55:11] @Finchinator: i disagree with zam because if latios does not trick opposing jirachi then we're kinda fucked
  606. [12:55:15] DR Caetano93: i think its the best set here
  607. [12:55:16] phosphor: plus if we use encore we can free jira up to not be iron head
  608. [12:55:18] @Finchinator: and it's less effective withput spikes
  609. [12:55:21] @Finchinator: but if you're going to use it
  610. [12:55:22] DR Caetano93: encore or twave are possible too
  611. [12:55:23] @Finchinator: you need psy focus ice on this
  612. [12:55:29] #AM: finch what would you suggest?
  613. [12:55:32] @Finchinator: you're good vs celebi, u dont need signal
  614. [12:55:34] @Finchinator: run twave or encore
  615. [12:55:44] +FNH: why either of those two finch
  616. [12:55:46] @Finchinator: with lati zone ira chomp i'd suggest a breaker
  617. [12:55:48] +FNH: they arent intuitive
  618. [12:55:52] @Finchinator: rn we have a sweeper and a revenge killer and hazards
  619. [12:55:53] +FNH: twave or encore
  620. [12:55:58] @Finchinator: cb dnite or cb kyub prob
  621. [12:56:07] @Finchinator: also gives a secondary water resist
  622. [12:56:19] phosphor: kyub deal with mamo, nite kinda forces mie last no?
  623. [12:56:23] DR Caetano93: i like cb nite, it gives extremespeed
  624. [12:56:24] @Finchinator: it does yea
  625. [12:56:32] @Finchinator: u guys can go kyub + zam
  626. [12:56:33] @Finchinator: or nite + mie
  627. [12:56:34] @Finchinator: prob
  628. [12:56:45] @Finchinator: but there are other options if you go kyub
  629. [12:56:47] phosphor: kyub does enough damage that it can trade even without a spinner in this case?
  630. [12:56:48] #AM: I kind of like nite/mie personally whats pros and cons for each
  631. [12:56:48] +Nal Or Ium? ″: imo nite + mie is better
  632. [12:56:50] @Finchinator: anyway, i'll lave that up to you guys
  633. [12:56:51] #AM: if you dont mind
  634. [12:56:54] @Finchinator: leave*
  635. [12:57:06] @Finchinator: but if u run dnite, outrage / super / espeed / ice punch or dclaw or filler
  636. [12:57:15] @Finchinator: if u run kyub, outrage / dclaw / fusion bolt / ice beam
  637. [12:57:17] @Finchinator: hope this helps
  638. [12:57:20] +FNH: choice band on both
  639. [12:57:23] phosphor: imo going kyub without a spinner means you need more fighting type answers
  640. [12:57:25] +FNH: right
  641. [12:57:51] phosphor: like lando or zam last can maybe work too
  642. [12:58:03] #AM: you guys want to try dragonite/starmie here?
  643. [12:58:11] #AM: just to have a framework?
  644. [12:58:13] +Katy: im ok wi it
  645. [12:58:32] +Nal Or Ium? ″: yea me too
  646. [12:58:42] DR Caetano93: nite/mie are the most common choices since they cover each other relatively well and function versus enything with a very good speed control option
  647. [12:58:49] +Nal Or Ium? ″: LO or Lefties Mie?
  648. [12:59:00] +FNH: LO for the power
  649. [12:59:00] #AM: life orb I would assume or a berry?
  650. [12:59:17] +Nal Or Ium? ″: Starmie with recover in dragmag is useful?
  651. [12:59:27] DR Caetano93: kyub/zam are similar but this leaves you with a way more agressive team, you can missplay with they if not used to it
  652. [12:59:43] #AM: hm
  653. [12:59:44] phosphor: plus jira is still annoying
  654. [12:59:54] phosphor: if it for example catches chomp with bslam on switch
  655. [13:00:02] phosphor: if you go kyub/zam
  656. [13:00:15] DR Caetano93: LO nalorium
  657. [13:00:22] DR Caetano93: you need the power to break jellicent
  658. [13:00:46] phosphor: sounds like lo pump ib tbolt spin
  659. [13:00:51] phosphor: aka standard
  660. [13:00:55] DR Caetano93: y
  661. [13:01:11] #AM: and choice band dragonite?
  662. [13:01:13] phosphor: specs can be nice if we had another latios set, on another kind of dragmag
  663. [13:01:20] DR Caetano93: particularly, i prefer surf
  664. [13:01:21] #AM: is it just finch's set?
  665. [13:01:25] DR Caetano93: no miss x_x
  666. [13:01:35] phosphor: i also thought of surf
  667. [13:01:58] phosphor: ultimately you need tbolt to have the punch
  668. [13:02:03] DR Caetano93: outrage, superpower, extremespeed, filler is the dnite set
  669. [13:02:13] DR Caetano93: dclaw, aqua tail or ice punch are the best fillers
  670. [13:02:28] +Nal Or Ium? ″: oo I like aqua tail
  671. [13:02:34] +FNH: what do you prefer out of the fillers listed caetano
  672. [13:02:50] DR Caetano93: aqua tail
  673. [13:02:54] #AM: guess dnites filler slot would help finalize jirachi set
  674. [13:02:59] phosphor: currently lefties lando seems annoying to us, starmie is worn down fast and both our breakers get hurt by ice
  675. [13:03:00] DR Caetano93: hit heatran, excadrill and landorus in the same slot
  676. [13:03:37] +Nal Or Ium? ″: gliscor too
  677. [13:03:39] +FNH: also why do we want choice band on this Dragonite
  678. [13:03:53] phosphor: we want something that can immediately threaten
  679. [13:03:56] phosphor: like
  680. [13:03:58] phosphor: otherwise
  681. [13:04:00] DR Caetano93: game control
  682. [13:04:09] phosphor: we are gonna get chomp in, sd, and then use...dual chop?
  683. [13:04:12] phosphor: if we wanna kill a wall
  684. [13:04:19] DR Caetano93: dragon dance didn't add much with scarf latios
  685. [13:04:32] DR Caetano93: and band extremespeed helps a lot versus rain
  686. [13:04:45] #AM: so scarf latios, balloon mag, subsd chomp, sr jirachi, life orb starmie, band dragonite
  687. [13:04:53] DR Caetano93: y
  688. [13:05:01] #AM: whats import looking like so far so we can fix kinks finalize moveset
  689. [13:05:04] +FNH: !code
  690. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  691. Ability: Levitate
  692. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  693. [13:05:07] #AM: ty
  694. [13:05:13] +FNH: do correct anything i missed
  695. [13:05:17] phosphor: our zone has to be magnet rise right?
  696. [13:05:23] +FNH: indeed
  697. [13:05:24] +Katy: u have aqua tail twice
  698. [13:05:25] +Nal Or Ium? ″: Multiscale dnite
  699. [13:05:26] +Katy: on dnite
  700. [13:05:31] +Nal Or Ium? ″: ^
  701. [13:05:42] DR Caetano93: dragonite have 2 aqua tails
  702. [13:05:46] phosphor: i think our jira needs shuca
  703. [13:05:49] +FNH: !code
  704. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  705. Ability: Levitate
  706. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  707. [13:06:05] phosphor: like
  708. [13:06:05] DR Caetano93: multiscale on dnite
  709. [13:06:06] +FNH: and multiscale was what i missed this go around
  710. [13:06:08] phosphor: icy wind+ shuca
  711. [13:06:12] Ika Ika Musume: could you run icy wind + iron head
  712. [13:06:18] +FNH: !code
  713. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  714. Ability: Levitate
  715. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  716. [13:06:24] DR Caetano93: its possible yes
  717. [13:06:38] +Nal Or Ium? ″: o, we are missing rachi
  718. [13:06:50] #AM: yeah the flowchart was finishing rachi last
  719. [13:06:53] DR Caetano93: iron head main target is breloom and reuniclus
  720. [13:06:54] #AM: based on last slots
  721. [13:06:56] +FNH: ok so, how would you ev starmie, jirachi and dragonite caetano
  722. [13:07:17] DR Caetano93: starmie and dragonite max max
  723. [13:07:21] Ika Ika Musume: Starmie Id assume is timid max max
  724. [13:07:25] DR Caetano93: timid mie with 29 hp iv
  725. [13:07:25] +Nal Or Ium? ″: nah
  726. [13:07:37] DR Caetano93: dragonite is adamant
  727. [13:07:38] Ika Ika Musume: for the LO
  728. [13:07:41] Ika Ika Musume: recoil I assume
  729. [13:07:42] #AM: Nal Or Ium if later you can provide a small description for yellow paint let me know and I can format it for him to post in b101 thread
  730. [13:07:44] DR Caetano93: yes
  731. [13:07:52] phosphor: does the life orb number really help?
  732. [13:07:58] DR Caetano93: y
  733. [13:08:01] +Nal Or Ium? ″: kk
  734. [13:08:07] phosphor: like was it ever relevant in a game
  735. [13:08:11] DR Caetano93: its not something that will matter a lot
  736. [13:08:13] Ika Ika Musume: Its just a small optimisation, youd take 1 less damage from recoil
  737. [13:08:32] +Nal Or Ium? ″: Jirachi is used with evs on HP, Def, Spd and Speed
  738. [13:08:36] Ika Ika Musume: over the course of many games, it adds up. Thats how at least I justify those sorts of numbers
  739. [13:08:46] phosphor: anyway imo with jira we dont fuck with speed, let's go as high spdef as we can
  740. [13:08:47] +FNH: caetano adamant on dragonite yes or no, and why
  741. [13:08:47] +Nal Or Ium? ″: aka ADV snorlax
  742. [13:08:55] #AM: !code
  743. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  744. Ability: Levitate
  745. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD
  746. [13:09:04] DR Caetano93: if we go with iton head jirachi
  747. [13:09:08] DR Caetano93: iron*
  748. [13:09:10] #AM: DR Caetano93 I just put it there
  749. [13:09:15] DR Caetano93: we need speed to creep adamant mamoswine
  750. [13:09:15] #AM: it can be w/e we need
  751. [13:09:21] Ika Ika Musume: scarf lati definitely wants to be timid max max
  752. [13:09:28] phosphor: between trick latios+ yachesd chomp+ bandnite, do we need iron head for reun?
  753. [13:09:29] Ika Ika Musume: you wanna outspeed scarf chomp for one
  754. [13:09:44] phosphor: the other guy i imagine we need ih for is kyub
  755. [13:09:50] +Katy: so we need to creep 259
  756. [13:09:51] #AM: yeah messed up import there my bad on latios
  757. [13:10:03] #AM: its 96 speed
  758. [13:10:05] #AM: neutral btw
  759. [13:10:07] phosphor: but uturn to a dragon can deal with it no?
  760. [13:10:08] #AM: for ada mammo
  761. [13:10:20] +Katy: yup
  762. [13:10:46] DR Caetano93: reuniclus is one of the few mons that can snowball out of control really fast
  763. [13:10:50] Ika Ika Musume: you can also technically icy wind into iron head flinch right if you had both
  764. [13:10:52] Ika Ika Musume: vs. mamo
  765. [13:10:58] #AM: I like iron head for the reason DR Caetano93 stated
  766. [13:10:59] DR Caetano93: the most ways to deal with it, the best
  767. [13:11:02] Ika Ika Musume: assuming shuca is intact
  768. [13:11:15] #AM: not sure on evs for jirachi
  769. [13:11:20] DR Caetano93: with iron head we don't run shuca
  770. [13:11:21] #AM: bessides the 96 speed
  771. [13:11:27] #AM: lefties for iron head?
  772. [13:11:28] phosphor: i really must insist shuca on this reun tho, lefties lando and mamo would be much more problematic otherwise
  773. [13:11:28] DR Caetano93: leftovers for reuniclus
  774. [13:11:33] #AM: ok
  775. [13:11:35] Ika Ika Musume: yea that makes sense
  776. [13:11:49] DR Caetano93: also soft opposing latios
  777. [13:11:52] +Nal Or Ium? ″: kk
  778. [13:12:47] #AM: !code
  779. Jirachi @ Leftovers
  780. Ability: Serene Grace
  781. EVs: 96 Spe
  782. [13:12:50] @Finchinator: sorry i had to afk
  783. [13:12:51] #AM: this is just jirachi
  784. [13:12:56] #AM: nw finch
  785. [13:13:03] +FNH: you want u turn as last correct?
  786. [13:13:07] @Finchinator: lo on mie never ends well, but this looks fine
  787. [13:13:10] #AM: also what about phosphors point above
  788. [13:13:10] DR Caetano93: 248 hp, rest in spdef, uturn last move
  789. [13:13:13] @Finchinator: generally on jira u pump sdef
  790. [13:13:15] +Nal Or Ium? ″: yes fnh
  791. [13:13:24] @Finchinator: i u go uturn u dont want the speed EVs u actually wanna underspeed rotom-w
  792. [13:13:29] @Finchinator: in my exp
  793. [13:13:35] @Finchinator: but it seems that's already decided
  794. [13:13:37] +FNH: slow u turn makes sense
  795. [13:13:41] @Finchinator: uturn and thunder and eball are all fine anyway
  796. [13:13:41] #AM: speed was for mamo
  797. [13:13:44] #AM: adamant
  798. [13:13:44] +FNH: but doesnt it open us to mamo
  799. [13:13:45] Ika Ika Musume: if you are you are using jirachi to help vs. loom
  800. [13:13:46] DR Caetano93: nah, this can be debated
  801. [13:13:48] Ika Ika Musume: could you up the speed to
  802. [13:13:50] #AM: but up to you guys
  803. [13:13:53] Ika Ika Musume: 265
  804. [13:13:55] Ika Ika Musume: 263
  805. [13:13:57] Ika Ika Musume: for jolly loom
  806. [13:13:59] DR Caetano93: im not a fan of iron head jirachi slower than mamoswine
  807. [13:14:01] @Finchinator: w mie and balloon and yache and espeed
  808. [13:14:04] @Finchinator: u dont need speed for mamo
  809. [13:14:07] @Finchinator: esp since jolly mamo is solid
  810. [13:14:12] #AM: hm
  811. [13:14:20] #AM: what about Ika Ika Musumes point?
  812. [13:14:24] #AM: to justify speed
  813. [13:14:32] DR Caetano93: jolly loom is extinct
  814. [13:14:38] #AM: ic
  815. [13:14:43] +Nal Or Ium? ″: btw, how good is the idea of making jirachi sassy?
  816. [13:14:54] phosphor: if we are not iron head i am for it
  817. [13:15:14] phosphor: if we are iron head we need the extra damage on kyub and reun
  818. [13:15:20] @Finchinator: why do u need help vs loom
  819. [13:15:21] @Finchinator: w a dnite
  820. [13:15:22] DR Caetano93: the main problem with slow rachi, is that it can't outspeed landorus or chomp after the icy wind
  821. [13:15:22] @Finchinator: and a lati
  822. [13:15:24] DR Caetano93: this is huge for me
  823. [13:15:27] @Finchinator: and a mie to outrun and ohko it
  824. [13:15:33] @Finchinator: and the fact that loom is always slower regardless
  825. [13:15:35] @Finchinator: unless technician
  826. [13:15:42] Ika Ika Musume: I wasnt sure myself, only it was mentioned
  827. [13:15:44] @Finchinator: and technician loom is uncommon + walled by dnite
  828. [13:15:51] @Finchinator: [13:15:23] DR Caetano93: the main problem with slow rachi, is that it can't outspeed landorus or chomp after the icy wind
  829. [13:15:54] @Finchinator: untrue
  830. [13:15:55] #AM: ill let you guys debate this a bit for educational purpose
  831. [13:16:02] #AM: then we'll finalize everything
  832. [13:16:06] @Finchinator: hit 207 speed
  833. [13:16:10] +Nal Or Ium? ″: like imo, sassy rachi is p good
  834. [13:16:11] @Finchinator: you outrun max speed -1 landot
  835. [13:16:16] @Finchinator: you underspeed rotomw
  836. [13:16:20] @Finchinator: chomp is irrelevant
  837. [13:16:26] Ika Ika Musume: only spore is an issue, but then after the sack with many dragons surely you are fine
  838. [13:16:27] DR Caetano93: not good rotom-w but alas
  839. [13:16:30] @Finchinator: spore is banned.
  840. [13:16:33] #AM: Ika Ika Musume spore is banned
  841. [13:16:34] #AM: sniped
  842. [13:16:36] Ika Ika Musume: oh sniped
  843. [13:16:38] @Finchinator: well
  844. [13:16:45] @Finchinator: only max speed landot are scarf anyway
  845. [13:16:46] Ika Ika Musume: then loom is no issue
  846. [13:16:47] @Finchinator: ucan go slower
  847. [13:16:55] Ika Ika Musume: too used to playing 3v3 I am
  848. [13:17:35] phosphor: arent' there some fighting gem sd landos that hit 309? or is that set out of vogue
  849. [13:17:50] +Nal Or Ium? ″: can someone pass what we have so far? so that those who have just arrived can catch up
  850. [13:17:55] #AM: that set doesnt seem like very common even then you have speed options versus it
  851. [13:18:00] @Finchinator: fighting gem runs ada
  852. [13:18:01] @Finchinator: in my exp
  853. [13:18:02] @Finchinator: for skarm
  854. [13:18:10] #AM: !code
  855. Jirachi @ Leftovers
  856. Ability: Serene Grace
  857. EVs: 96 Spe
  858. [13:18:11] @Finchinator: anyway ill leave speed details up to you guys
  859. [13:18:15] #AM: whoops
  860. [13:18:17] DR Caetano93: we want here 0 speed jirachi
  861. [13:18:21] @Finchinator: i dont wanna reveal my speed for jira
  862. [13:18:23] phosphor: my stance has not changed i am still for low speed
  863. [13:18:23] DR Caetano93: to make sure we underspeed rotom-w?
  864. [13:18:24] #AM: !code
  865. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  866. Ability: Levitate
  867. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  868. [13:18:26] @Finchinator: cuz then people will begin to underspeed it by 1
  869. [13:18:27] #AM: figuring out jirachi
  870. [13:18:28] +Nal Or Ium? ″: ty AM
  871. [13:18:28] @Finchinator: and i will get angry
  872. [13:18:41] +Katy: lol
  873. [13:18:44] #AM: lol
  874. [13:18:46] +Katy: thats ok Finch
  875. [13:18:47] #AM: ok so
  876. [13:18:50] +Katy: u dont have to
  877. [13:18:54] #AM: what are we doing with jirachi
  878. [13:19:06] #AM: I was still trying to figure out with above discussion
  879. [13:19:09] DR Caetano93: if we are aiming to reduce its speed
  880. [13:19:25] DR Caetano93: then we need to at least underpeed the standart rotom-w tour set
  881. [13:19:35] DR Caetano93: with is 14 speed iv
  882. [13:20:14] #AM: so spread now?
  883. [13:20:17] #AM: and nature
  884. [13:20:28] DR Caetano93: so we are using 248 hp / 8 def / 252 spdef sassy 7 speed iv
  885. [13:20:32] #AM: still iron head, icy wind, uturn sr im assuming
  886. [13:20:36] DR Caetano93: y
  887. [13:20:49] +Nal Or Ium? ″: oo I like that
  888. [13:21:01] phosphor: 40 def might be worth considering, we have lefties so we dont lose too much bulk and this way kyub dont 2hko after sr
  889. [13:21:06] #AM: !code
  890. Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
  891. Ability: Levitate
  892. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  893. [13:21:29] #AM: anything missing /fix
  894. [13:21:33] #AM: ?
  895. [13:21:46] #AM: I guess stuff will always be up for debate but the above was pretty informative
  896. [13:21:47] DR Caetano93: no
  897. [13:21:49] +Katy: mh look ok
  898. [13:21:50] DR Caetano93: everything there
  899. [13:21:56] +Katy: we have what we need
  900. [13:22:00] +Nal Or Ium? ″: looks p solid imo
  901. [13:22:27] #AM: at a glance are there any concerns and if so just so everyone is aware how would it be addressed in battle scenario?
  902. [13:22:47] #AM: I think we'll keep this build for the sake of workshop to wrap things up but the more info the better
  903. [13:22:54] +Katy: reun and zam are dealt w fine, ya?
  904. [13:22:56] +Katy: if i understood
  905. [13:23:03] DR Caetano93: y
  906. [13:23:04] #AM: it looks fine now in those matchups
  907. [13:23:11] DR Caetano93: jirachi + latios + dragonite deals with them
  908. [13:23:13] +Katy: ah thanks that is what i wanted to make sure :)
  909. [13:23:17] phosphor: there are annoyances for this team but generally can be muscled through cause we have a lot of power
  910. [13:24:07] #AM: Yellow Paint you're able to pull all logs from modlog right?
  911. [13:24:17] #AM: some of the earlier stuff like starting got cutoff
  912. [13:24:24] #AM: okay
  913. [13:24:36] #AM: I think if everyone is good we can end it?
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