13:56 Neko-chan | I want to work on expanding my skillset.
13:57    cdsboy | Okay, what skill do you want to target?
13:57 Neko-chan | Going to start reading more technical stuff on the bus (even though I know you think that's a waste of time)
13:58    cdsboy | It's only a waste of time if you don't balance it with practice.
13:59 Neko-chan | Database management since I have basic skills for it
13:59 Neko-chan | would like to smoosh that with the idea I had for using the google map api
13:59 Neko-chan | Yeah, I feel like reading the technical stuff makes my practice more effective by giving me direction.
14:00 Neko-chan | I realize that you only develop the skill by doing
14:00 Neko-chan | but if you don't know what to do, it's hard to practice
14:00 Neko-chan | Its also a big part of how I learn.
14:05    cdsboy | I don't only develop the skill by doing.
14:05    cdsboy | And I haven't been advocating never reading things
14:05    cdsboy | What I've been trying to express the whole time is, you need to start doing things to know what you need to research
14:06    cdsboy | So if you start working on something and hit a road block, then it'd be a great thing to earmark for suplimental reading the next bus ride or w/e
14:10    cdsboy | A problem a lot of beginners who program have is over reading. They'll go read something like design patterns and then try to apply it to their work
14:10    cdsboy | and end up trying to solve problems that don't exist
14:14 Neko-chan | I just want to know what words to type. Because for the most part, you've had me sit down and I have no idea how to do the things I want to do. I
                | don't understand why I have to fail before I try to develop a cursory knowledge of something.
14:15 Neko-chan | Sitting down in front of a blank text editor offers me absolutely nothing.
14:15 Neko-chan | So I try to figure out what I can do, then apply that.
14:15 Neko-chan | Like, I do want to try, but all I've understood from you is that I shouldn't be reading documentation and should just be coding
14:15 Neko-chan | which doesn't make any sense at all to me
14:16    cdsboy | That's just simply not true?
14:16    cdsboy | The last time I had you sit down and code you had a step by step django guide to follow.
14:16 Neko-chan | The first time we were programming I tried to look something up and read about it and you told me to stop
14:16 Neko-chan | that was the formative experience here
14:17 Neko-chan | and every time I've brought up the idea of reading at all you've told me I was wrong and shouldn't do it.
14:17 Neko-chan | You're saying something different now
14:17 Neko-chan | I'm just going to try.
14:17    cdsboy | Listen, that's not true.
14:17    cdsboy | I've specifically told
14:17    cdsboy | you not to read documentation
14:17    cdsboy | And I'm not changing my tune here
14:17    cdsboy | I'm saying you need to program, and look up things as a result of the programming
14:18 Neko-chan | I agree that I need to program.
14:19 Neko-chan | I don't have time to fight about this right now, sorry.
14:19    cdsboy | I wasn't aware we were fighting.
14:19 Neko-chan | I'm a little frustrated and I don't understand what you're talking about.
14:19 Neko-chan | You're saying to both read and not read the documentation.
14:19 Neko-chan | I've got something I want to try to do, I'm just going to try to do it.
14:19    cdsboy | Don't read documenattion, reference it
14:20 Neko-chan | I am going to read about doing it, I am going to try to do it, I am going to read some more, I will do it some more.
14:20 Neko-chan | I will read while doing it.
14:20 Neko-chan | You don't understand what it is like to know nothing about this stuff.
14:21    cdsboy | I don't understand why you're asking my opinion and asking for help and then getting frustrated when I give it
14:21    cdsboy | And once again, I don't know why you're under the impression I don't understand what that's like.
14:21 Neko-chan | I just said I was going to do it.
14:21    cdsboy | I did it myself, and I've helped a ton of new programmers
14:21 Neko-chan | Okay, obviously I'm just being an idiot because the way you learn is the only way to learn.
14:21 Neko-chan | Thanks for discouraging me.
14:21    cdsboy | You're being an ass.
14:22 Neko-chan | I am going to try, and if I need your help, I will ask.
14:22    cdsboy | I did not say you're being an idiot
14:22    cdsboy | and I'm not discouraging you.
14:22 Neko-chan | Whenever we have one of these conversations, I feel totally discouraged.
14:23    cdsboy | There's a difference between you feeling discouraged, and me discouraging you.
14:23    cdsboy | I have never once said "No you shouldn't program"
14:24    cdsboy | Or "No you can't do it"
14:25    cdsboy | You're acting like me trying to guide you to use your time effectively is me discouraging you which isn't true
14:25    cdsboy | I'm trying to help you.
14:25 Neko-chan | You've told me "you're not cut out for this" and "you won't be able to handle this"
14:25 Neko-chan | I just want a baseline.
14:25    cdsboy | That's NOT TRUE
14:25 Neko-chan | I'm going to read while on the bus.
14:25    cdsboy | okay
14:25    cdsboy | I'm done talking to you about this
14:25 Neko-chan | Okay.
14:25    cdsboy | Because I'm actually not going to fight with you about this again
14:25    cdsboy | We've literally had that conversation at least 5 times