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Supplemental document for: "Theory that Roger Stone's go-between for Wikileaks was Randy Credico", link: https://wakelet.com/wake/2d352ae9-febe-44a1-a7bb-51674a2e4bf5

Randy Credico interviews Ray McGovern, broadcast date: January 3, 2017. Notable for McGovern saying the 2013 sarin gas attack in Syria was a false flag.

Excerpt runs from 26:03 to 34:08.

File link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/6tc1bme7qc5p7ji/wbai_170103_170001randyCrelof+-+CIndy+Sheean+Ray+McGovern+Frank+Serpico.mp3

RANDY CREDICO
He is the co-creator, or he co-created the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, and the Sam Adams Association for Integiry in Intelligence, and Ray, we are doing the best of 2016, on "Live on the Fly", and you made it, man, welcome back.

RAY MCGOVERN
Thanks, very much, Randy. Good to be back.

CREDICO
So, Ray, I don't know where we left off last week, about Russia. I know you went to Fordham Universsity, you got two degrees, in Russian History, Literature, and all of that, so you're pretty well attuned to what's happening, right now, so what is your overview of the kind of drumbeat for war. That's happening, still. Going into the Trump administration.

MCGOVERN
Well, it's really quite remarkable. I've not seen the major media, so-called mainstream media, so unanimous in beating the drums for a bad, bad relationship with Russia. And, you know, to the point of provoking them. Now, the odd thing is, that Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia, has been obstinate. He's refused to co-operate in the tit for tat. They tried to provoke him, when they did a coup in Kiev, in February 2014. He did what he had to...but he would not be provoked into open hostilities. And now, they've tried to provoke him by throwing out thirty five diplomats, Russian diplomats here. Fully expecting that he would do the same thing, and when Trump came in, the relationship would be very sour indeed, and Putin fooled everybody by saying, you know, this is sortof petulant activity, on the part of an outgoing administration that hasn't had much success anywhere. We're not going to respond in time. We're not going to throw out American families, we're going to invite them to New Year's celebrations in the Kremlin. Well...[laughs] even some of the neo-cons here expressed surprise at that, and said, you know, this is pretty statesman like. So, Trump is right, in saying that Putin is a very smart guy. Now, what's the problem with Russia?

Well, you know, if you look back, the last couple of years, you'll see that the neo-conservatives, these are the people who really beat the drum for tension and war. After all, tension and war are very good for business, Randy-

CREDICO
Oh yeah, lotta money.

MCGOVERN
Yeah, that would be very bad for Raytheon, Lockheed, and the rest.

CREDICO
Do you remember what Sidney Greenstreet said in _The Maltese Falcon_, to Bogart? [does Greenstreet] "We all knew the holy wars were largely a matter of loot."

MCGOVERN
[laughs] Well, he's got it. You know, to go from the ridiculous to the sublime, Pope Francis, when he was talking to Congress, it was quite remarkable, they were all smiling, "You know, the main problem is the blood soaked arms traders," Oh! They all got up and cheered. And then they looked in their back pockets, to make sure their last envelope from Lockheed and Raytheon were in their back pocket. It was giving hypocrisy a bad name in Congress. So, yeah, that's part of it. The other part is, they don't just want any decent relationship with Russia...well, they hand him ideological problems, and Russia is very obstinate. They don't do what they want him to do. And since we are the sole indispensable country in the world...well, that's not allowed. [laughs] Well, it's time people got a little bit more sensible. There was a time, after Russia fell apart, that is, the Soviet Union, fell apart, in 1991, and the decade after that, that Russia couldn't get it together...they had no real military potential...sure, they had the strategic deterrent, but they were no threat to anyone...And after we did the Gulf War, in 1991, where we creamed the ineffectual Iraqi forces, who had made the big mistake of invading Kuwait. This is interesting, because the former head of NATO, General Wesley Clark, four stars, went to Paul Wolfowitz, who was a high defense offical at the time, 1991, right after the big victory, and he said, "Paul, what's the major lesson to be learned from this?" And Paul said, "Oh, that's simple," he says. "That we can do these things, and Russia won't stop us." Wooooah. Then Paul said, because he's a bright guy, "We only have five, ten years left before we have [sic: he means lose] this dominance, and so we have to take full advantage of that." Okay? 1991, right? Fast forward to 2003. We wanted to attack Iraq. And Russia can't stop us. Fast forward to 2008, we want Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. The Russians warned us about that...but they can't stop us. Decides in Bucharest, on March or April 2008, Ukraine and Georgia will become part of NATO. Okay? Then you go to 2013, when all of a sudden, there's all hell breaking loose in Syria. K?

Now: Obama is mousetrapped. There's a poison gas, a sarin attack right outside of Damascus, on the 21st of August, 2013. And John Kerry gets up immediately and blames it on Bashar Al-AssadBashar Al-AssadBashar Al-AssadBashar Al-Assad did this. Kerry said it [laughing] thirty five times. I counted.

CREDICO
I counted thirty four.

MCGOVERN
[laughing] Thirty four, okay. You know, you don't have to be a Shakespearean scholar, indeed, to remember that one can protest too much, right? Well, the big upshot of that was there was no proof that Bashar Al-Assad did it...as a matter of fact, it was homemade sarin gas, provided by...the precursors [ingredients for the sarin gas] coming through Turkey, we know the whole story now, it is not in the major press here, but it was the rebels that were trying to mousetrap Obama into attacking and into making "shock and awe," so to speak. On Syria. Now, what happened? Putin. Putin intervened. Obama was up there for some kind of summit, there in St. Petersburg, in early September, and Putin says, "Hey, I know you got a problem there. But you know, we've been talking to the Syrians, and we can get them to destroy...all their chemical weapons." And Obama says, "What?" [laughing] Putin says, "Yeah, we can. Watch." Next day, the Syrian foreign minister gets up and says, "We have agreed to give up all our chemical weapons for destruction on a U.S. naval ship, especially outfitted for that purpose." Wooooah. Obama has his chestnuts pulled out of the fire, and the neo-cons, the people who wanted a full fledged war against Syria, didn't get their war.

CREDICO
Right, well-

MCGOVERN
They were outraged.