Create a new version of paste:

Supplemental document for: "Theory that Roger Stone's back channel to Wikileaks was Randy Credico", link: https://wakelet.com/wake/2d352ae9-febe-44a1-a7bb-51674a2e4bf5

Ray McGovern interviewed on Loud & Clear, hosted by Brian Becker, broadcast on Radio Sputnik, broadcast date: October 18, 2016.

File link: https://sputniknews.com/radio_loud_and_clear/201610181046435797-exposed-how-newsweek-fabricated-a-putin-trump-conspiracy-theory/

Interview runs from 17:55 to 35:25.

BRIAN BECKER
Anti-Russia hysteria continues to intensify in the United States. Vice President Joe Biden has openly said on national television that the U.S. will launch a cyberattack on Russia, remarks that drew a sharp rebuke from Moscow. We are joined by Ray McGovern, he is a former CIA analyst and expert on the Soviet Union, and currently an activist and journalist. Welcome back, Ray McGovern.

RAY MCGOVERN
Thank you, Brian.

BECKER
Let's start with your reaction to all that's taking place over the past few days. And a lot of things have taken place. Joe Biden said on "Meet The Press", that the U.S. will "sending a message" to Putin, and "be at the time of our choosing and under the circumstances that will have the greatest impact," I mean, it's somewhat unprecedented, I think, to openly declare its intentions to launch a cyber attack against another power. Another country.

MCGOVERN
Well, it was weird. Unless Biden is speaking, really, up at Harvard, noted that the Saudis, and the Qataris, and the Turks, were actually funding ISIS, and causing all these problems, and had to retract that, even though it's true, usually he's speaking from a script. He's kindof run by ventriloquists, you might say. And so, on Friday, taping the NBC show, "Meet the Press", he said those things, that you just mentioned. "We're gonna [send a] message to Mr. Putin, and he might not even know it. You know, we'll know it, but-" So, what's the point here? Well, you have to look at timing. This is Friday. Okay? That same day...the CIA had chosen its favorite journalist to spread the story that they're preparing to do _cyber-war_, on Russia. _Cyber War_, they're going to get _cyber war_. Why? To retaliate for Russian interference in the election, in the United States. Okay, well, you know...why Friday? Why Friday, Biden? Probably following the directions of the CIA. And why does NBC pick this up, when one of its journalists there, is a _known_ hack that has been shown by his own emails to be subservient to the CIA, that he checks messages with the CIA, and often alters his own reporting by CIA instructions [who McGovern is referring to here, I have no idea, and what the basis for his allegations are, I'm equally ignorant]. Why did he do that? Well, because the next day, Saturday, the people were trying to work out an agreement for a ceasefire in Syria, were meeting in Lausane, Switzerland. K? That's Secretary of State Kerry, Foreign Minister Lavrov, and other countries. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Ukraine, Iran, Jordan, and Egypt. They're all going to talk about resuming this hoped for ceasefire that was agreed to do by Lavrov and Kerry, on the 9th of September, went into effect on the 12th of September, and then was scuttled, because of US airstrikes on known Syrian army positions on the 17th of September. So, what happens here?

Well, the Russians had laid down the gauntlet. The Russians had said, "Look, we're a little tired of all this." Just be aware, this was the Ministry of Defense, we're going to shoot down anything that moves in the air over Syria. Any unidentified flight or missile, and, by the way, we can even deal with stealth missiles or planes, so if you think we can't, you're in for a big surprise, this is what we're going to do." Wooooah! Now, that didn't get reported in the New York Times. It's right out there. Somebody told the president. I tried to tell the preisdent- well, it probably wasn't my piece he read, but somebody gave him religion and said, "Whoops, hey, the Russians are serious here, you better get the Pentagon to realize it has to obey your instructions." Now, as I reconstructed it, he told Ash Carter at the Pentagon, "Knock it off. Just knock it off." And he told John Kerry, "Hey, John. It doesn't help anything to be accusing the Russians or Syrians of war crimes, for god's sakes. Get back to Switzerland, and see if you can work something out." Now. That happened the next day. K, now what happened at those negotiations? Zero. Nada. Nichego. Nothing. Okay? Why? Because Obama had the good sense to send Kerry back, but he didn't have the good sense to give Kerry any new instructions. And so, here are the Russians looking at things. Now: the ceasefire was scuttled by the U.S. airforce, and now, the new negotiations are trying to be scuttled by the CIA, and his henchmen in the press, and Joe Biden, of all things, what are we to make of this?

Now, this is worse, than before we tried to renew negotiations, because you can only do this so many times. And I'm really worried, I'm really worried the cowboys in the Pentagon will say, "Oh, so, the Russians think they can knock down Stealth fighters, huh? Well, this would be a good example, we can try it out-" And there will be an open clash between Russian and American planes in the air over Syria. That could, as the Chinese like to say, "That could have no good end."

BECKER
That's Ray McGovern, he is here in studio, with us in Washington, D.C., we're talking about the fact that Joe Biden threatened cyber-warfare attacks against Russia, openly on "Meet the Press", last weekend. It takes place in the context, Biden's comments, not only of the Syrian ceasefire collapse, and the attempted resumption of ceasefire talks, it also takes place in the context of a growing hysteria against Russia. And the Democratic National Committee, and the Clinton campaign, and most of the mainstream media say, without factual evidence, that Russia is behind all the hacks on the Democratic party positions of power, recent hack of John Podesta, Clinton's campaign chairperson, again not real proof. At the same time, they're using the language that Wikileaks is the proxy of Russia, that Wikileaks has weaponized information. We know, yesterday, Ray, that RT in the UK was informed by the banks, in the United Kingdom, that their accounts were being closed, we also know that Julian Assange had his server, his conenction to the internet cut, deliberately. When you look at the big picture outside of just Syria, it seems as if there is a growing- I don't even want to use the language "Cold War", because it becomes trite at a certain point. The point of a Cold War is it's not a hot war. It's not nuclear war. But there's a danger of it. Vitaly Churkin, one of the spokespersons for the Russian government, he said, "This is the worst in US-Russia relations since 1973." ["Russia envoy: Tensions with US are probably worst since 1973" link: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a1c56db1f49a4c1bae8e17a45daca436/russia-envoy-tensions-us-are-probably-worst-1973 ] [Churkin would die at the age of 64 in February, 2017: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/world/europe/churkin-russia-ambassador-un-death.html ] And that would be during the October Mid East war. Both sides were on nuclear alert during that war. Talk about the big picture, like, why is this happening, and do you believe, as a former CIA analyst, as a presidential briefer, that there actually could be calculations whereby the Pentagon is preparing for war with Russia?

MCGOVERN
Sounds strange, doesn't it? Sounds too strange to believe? But, you know, I don't get to make these observations or employ countermeasures. Vladimir Putin does. And the Russians do. And that's what's important here; is they watch all this. Now, the whole imbroglio started out in a kind of mini sortof way. Because, well, let's put it this way: two days before the Democratic National Convention, Assange, Wikileaks, released a series of emails, that show that Hillary Clinton and her henchwomen [laughs] Debbie Wasserman Schultz, had stolen the nomination from Bernie Sanders. It's right there - in the content of the Wikileaks, released stuff. Now, is this a hack? No, it wasn't a hack. It was a leak! There's another Ed Snowden, at the NSA! And he's really ticked off at how our political process is being hijacked. So: bottom line here, yeah, there's gross interference in the US electoral process, but it's not Wikileaks. It's not Russia. It's Hillary Clinton and she has succeeded in persuading the mass media to divert attention from this, to Russia, and make Russia the big bad bear, that you can do, before elections.

BECKER
And to make Donald Trump the Manchurian candidate of Russia.

MCGOVERN
[laughs] Well, that's where it's really bizarre. If people look at the facts here, it's all based on this premise. That President Putin would prefer to have Donald Trump as his opposite number, with the nuclear codes, or the finger on the nuclear button, however you want to describe it. Now, I've been watching Russia for over half a century, [laughs] it strains credulity beyond my ability to believe, that Vladimir Putin would favor the fellow who advertises the fact that he's unpredictable, and who gets irate at the slightest, the slightest offense, real or imagined, I mean...[laughs] the whole thing falls apart once you realize that as Putin said yesterday, he has no preference. All he has, is the hope that things will get back to normal, civilized behavior on the part of the United States, once a new election is held, and once a new president takes over. That may be a forlorn hope, but that's the only thing he has going for him, and there is precedent for that kind of hope.

BECKER
The retired Admiral James Stavridis, told NBC News that the US should attack Russia's ability to censor its own internet traffic, and then, as you mentioned, Ray McGovern, Putin said over the weekend, at the conclusion of the BRICS summit, that's Brazil, India, China, and South Africa, an attempt to create an anti-hegemonic structure in the world. Putin said, "You can expect anything from our American friends. But what did he say that was new? Don't we know that the official bodies of the United States are spying and eavesdropping on everyone." He's talking about Biden's comments. "The only new thing is that this is the first time that the United States has recognized at the highest level that they themselves do this." Meaning, cyber attacks. In other words, Biden, Putin is pointing out, is actually publicizing the idea that it's America, the United States government at least, not only the Russians, if the Russians are doing it, or if the Iranians are doing it, but certainly, the American government does it, they have cyber attack offensive and defensive capabilities, and we know they've used them.

MCGOVERN
Well, it was fairly clever the way Putin turned it around...realize, he's at the BRICS summit. The people there represent half of the world! China, India, Brazil, the others. And he's ridiculing, you know, the ventriloquists, who are telling Biden what to say. And he's turning it around to expose what the U.S. has done, not only against other civilians, but people like Angela Merkel, he alludes to how the US has done this forever. Now, you mentioned Stavridis...he's one of these admirals, you know, when he won his ensign stripes or whatever they are, he was already beyond the peter principle. He's now head of Tufts University, with no credentials at all, except that he bragged, when Hillary Clinton talked to Barack Obama, it would be a good idea to have a no fly zone in Libya, Stavridis was the first to applaud. "Yeah, this is a great idea!" Who is he? He's the head of NATO. You know, this guy is from hunger, as we used to say in the Bronx. Forget about him, he doesn't know what he's talking about. The noxious thing is, he is and his cronies at Tufts, they're sortof...what are they doing? They're kinda corrupting the next generation of foreign service officers, Tufts being one of the channels through which they come.

BECKER
Ray McGovern...John Kerry said the Aleppo, the situation in Aleppo, where it looks like the Syrian Arab Army with the support of Russia, will soon liberate Aleppo, the largest city in Syria. The eastern part has been under the control of terrorist organizations. John Kerry said: "The situation in Aleppo is the worst humanitarian disaster since World War II," I mean, what happened to Vietnam, what happened to Korea, what happened to Guatemala, what happened to these vast violations of human rights, humanitarian disasters. It is a humanitarian disaster in Syria, and the United States is blaming Russia for trying to liberate Aleppo from ISIS, from Al-Nusra. It won't tell its own "moderate rebels" to disentangle from these terrorist entities because they can't, actually. I mean, what do you think the U.S. really wants in Syria if they don't want a ceasefire with Russia?

MCGOVERN
Well, there are a couple of things here that are never mentioned, but perhaps we can mention them here. Who profits from the disarray, from the chaos in Syria? A country called Israel does. And, three years ago, when Jodi Rudoren of the New York Times asked Israeli leaders, what their prefered outcome in Syria was, they said, "Well, this doesn't sound really good, but our preferred outcome is no outcome." ["Israel Backs Limited Strike Against Syria" link: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/world/middleeast/israel-backs-limited-strike-against-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ] She said, "Come again?" And they said, again, this is outright, "But, you know, it's like a playoff game, we don't want either side to win, and of course, we don't want either side to win, either. As long as the Shia and Sunni are at each other's throats, not only in Syria, but in the whole region, well, Israel has nothing to fear from Syria." That's the name of the game. And in microscopic detail, it's Hezbollah which gave Israel a bloody nose a couple years ago, in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah can hardly be re-supplied through Syria, if there's chaos there. It gets re-supplied by Iran, that's very difficult, if Syria is in flames.

BECKER
Ray, I want to ask you, finally...again, the RT, that's RT TV, which is used as an alternative media source in the United States, in the UK, and many parts of the world...the British banks have closed down the account, they said they're no longer going to do business with RT. Obviously, this effort, which the British government says was made by the banks themselves, is designed to harm RT, or possibly shut it down in Britian. RT press office said, "This decision is incomprehensible, and without warning, it is not, however, at odds with the countless measures that have been undertaken in the UK and Europe over the last three years to ostracize, shout down, or downright impede the work of RT. RT UK will continues its operations uninterrupted. I mean, the Russians can also, they can take countermeasures too, if Western governments are now shutting down RT or any other media outlet. Talk about that.

MCGOVERN
I wouldn't expect the Russians to do that, curiously enough. What I would expect, is that the US to see what happens in Britain. Whether anybody in Britain still cares about the Magna Carta, or any other rights wrested from kings and queens. I mean, we have a First Amendment here. But that didn't bar us from making sure the Press TV [24-hour news channel owned by Iran] couldn't work on satellites in this country. So, RT is pretty much in the sights. Supreme irony, and get this: the supreme irony, is that five years ago, Hillary Clinton bragged about the good coverage that she got from RT and Al-Jazeera, when she traveled abroad. She was criticizing mainstream media in the United States [laughs] and she said, "Yeah, you know, when I'm traveling, I watch RT and Al-Jazeera, and I get good information from it." So, that's the supreme irony. And when RT asked me to speak, I always come on, because no one knows what to say, and I have freedom of expression here, and I fear, I have some fears, under the new draconian legislation passed, in violation of our constitution, by the way, I could be wrapped up and branded as some sort of sympathizer with, not only _terrorists_, but with _Russians_, who are now the bete noir.