Create a new version of paste:

I want the machine from Alicization arc
[9:53:58 PM] Kluck: Which is what, sorry/
[9:54:11 PM] Rabla: Its like...
[9:54:18 PM] *** Didrik McCay Wickman sent IMG_11122013_135420.png ***
[9:54:21 PM] Rabla: how the fuck do i explain this
[9:54:23 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: wip time
[9:54:47 PM] Rabla: imagine
[9:54:54 PM] Rabla: They get a NervGear setup
[9:55:00 PM] Rabla: they go in to an empty gameworld
[9:55:04 PM] Rabla: spawn four AI
[9:55:16 PM] Rabla: The players teach them how to be human
[9:55:29 PM] Rabla: And they ACT human, and they have whole lives and brains and shit
[9:55:34 PM] Rabla: And then you leave
[9:55:39 PM] Pheonyx: sweet haxorus
[9:55:48 PM] Rabla: You let the simulation run for 500 years
[9:55:51 PM] Rabla: go back in
[9:55:55 PM] Rabla: and its like a real world
[9:56:05 PM] Rabla: Thats the Alicization machine
[9:56:17 PM] Kluck: So...
[9:56:21 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: thanks, line works not the most entertaing part but this is actually pretty fun
[9:56:21 PM] Rabla: Theres no AI scripts or anything, its real personality and thoughts
[9:56:29 PM] Kluck: Its a vr.... of the real world
[9:56:38 PM] Rabla: It CAN be
[9:56:50 PM] Rabla: If you set it up and keep the world constant like that
[9:57:00 PM] Rabla: Or it can be... say, Skyrim
[9:57:31 PM] Rabla: But every mention of a backstory is a REAL backstory and instead of a few lines an NPC has its real generated speech
[9:57:59 PM] Rabla: And every single thing in that game is there because something happened once in that universe to cause it to happen
[9:58:09 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Yeah I wouldn't want that
[9:58:14 PM] Rabla: I want that.
[9:58:22 PM] Rabla: Thats the end-all of gaming
[9:58:34 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: KANS BACK
[9:58:39 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: What shit is Rabla saying now?
[9:58:41 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: That sounds like the perfect way to give yourself a mindbreaking existentialism crisis
[9:59:03 PM] Pheonyx: sounds like developer hell
[9:59:04 PM] Rabla: You'd be less willing to kill a guy, thats for sure
[9:59:37 PM] Kluck: Can't wait for mass suicides in the real world
[10:00:00 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Yeah that's part of my problem. I wouldn't wanna play a game where I'd be bound by the same rules as in the real world
[10:00:19 PM] Rabla: Thats... whats the word
[10:00:23 PM] Rabla: objectionable?
[10:00:28 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: OBJECTION!
[10:00:31 PM] Pheonyx: ABLE!
[10:00:31 PM] Rabla: thanks kan
[10:00:32 PM] Kluck: OBJETION
[10:00:38 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: *throws coffee at Pheo*
[10:00:49 PM] Rabla: Nothing says you have to be bound by real world rules
[10:00:53 PM] Rabla: What if the game is..
[10:01:03 PM] Rabla: Trying to think of a real franchise
[10:01:05 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I'm not talking physics or fantasy here
[10:01:10 PM | Edited 10:01:32 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I'm talking morally
[10:01:18 PM] Pheonyx: I think I missed an important piece of the conversation here I'm not following anything
[10:01:31 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I just woke up
[10:01:32 PM] Rabla: Go back and read from "Fuck NervGear"
[10:01:56 PM] Rabla: I think the morality would be another great part of it
[10:01:57 PM] Pheonyx: eeeeeeeehhhhh reading
[10:02:07 PM] Rabla: Geez
[10:02:19 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: How
[10:02:26 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: how would that be a remotely good thing
[10:02:31 PM] Pheonyx: you don't ever say fuck nervgear rabla
[10:02:43 PM] Rabla: TL;DR: Game engine where all the NPCs are super advanced AI that are personality and thoughts, not scripting and pre-programmed actions
[10:02:55 PM] Pheonyx: might keep the trolls down?
[10:03:05 PM] Rabla: I say Fuck NervGear because this is the fictional machine that one-up's NervGear in its own universe
[10:03:06 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Yeah those?
[10:03:08 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: They're all dead
[10:03:33 PM] Pheonyx: Not "because" you literally never said it
[10:03:57 PM] Rabla: oh
[10:04:00 PM] Pheonyx: did you mean "who gives a shit about nervgear?"
[10:04:00 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I say that whole idea is terrible. Scientifically fascinating, but shit for a game
[10:04:23 PM] Rabla: "who gives a shit about the nervgear” was the message
[10:05:06 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Paralized people do /D
[10:05:11 PM] Rabla: An open-world game would THRIVE in this, which is why I keep using Skyrim
[10:06:00 PM] Rabla: Even if not for the world building, think of the individual uses
[10:06:05 PM] Rabla: Like just a person
[10:06:18 PM] Rabla: Imagine... a TWEWY, where every partner and player and Reaper
[10:06:24 PM] Rabla: were almost real
[10:06:35 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: what do you mean almost
[10:06:53 PM] Pheonyx: sounds like a reasonable setting for a game. Though I think I understand the issue Capa's coming from.
[10:07:10 PM] Rabla: I say almost because, they’re not real. I wouldn’t call them real people because physically they’re not.
[10:07:19 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: >almost

Wow Rabla you fucking racist
[10:07:28 PM] Pheonyx: If they look like a person and think like a person how can you say they're not a person?
[10:07:33 PM] Rabla: True
[10:07:45 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Hey everyone, Rabla is racist to AI
[10:07:55 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: He doesn't think they're people
[10:07:58 PM] Rabla: If you... actually have a problem with me calling a fictional concept not real, I can not do that
[10:08:09 PM] Pheonyx: This is like textbook scifi philosophy we're dealing with here
[10:09:17 PM] Pheonyx: well it's not like anyone can really take offense I mean this technology doesn't exist yet
[10:09:33 PM] Rabla: Thats why I wasn’t expecting to be called out on it...
[10:10:19 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I wasn't calling you out, more pointing out the fallacy
[10:10:33 PM] Rabla: fair enoughhhhh
[10:10:56 PM] Rabla: I’m just saying it has amazing potential
[10:11:13 PM] Rabla: Now that I’ve thought of the TWEWY example thats all I’m thinking about
[10:11:16 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I dunno, these are real minds you're messing with here
[10:11:32 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Amazing potential for you to treat the same as always
[10:11:35 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: You damn racist
[10:11:55 PM] Rabla: Do you EVER consider actually joining a conversation
[10:12:13 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: what you're basically doing is setting up a completely stand alone universe for yourself to come in and imperialise
[10:12:33 PM] Rabla: Not if you have no power over it
[10:12:40 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Then what's the point?
[10:12:41 PM] Pheonyx: Somebody has power over it
[10:12:51 PM] Rabla: Somebody IN THE GAME has power
[10:13:02 PM] Pheonyx: I mean someone needs admin powers to debug
[10:13:07 PM] Rabla: TWEWY example again, there is a literal composer
[10:13:23 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: If you are not a prominent force in the game then it won't be entertaining to play
[10:14:07 PM | Edited 10:14:17 PM] Kluck: Wouldn't there already be a protagonist too?
[10:14:15 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: and if you ARE a prominent force, then chances are you are acting as an imperialist
[10:14:36 PM] Kluck: So you would be watching from the sidelines
[10:14:56 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: coming in and wrecking havoc in a world that you are an outsider to
[10:15:09 PM] Rabla: You’re assuming everyone who plays will immediately decide “I want this to run EXACTLY how I want” from the very start
[10:15:23 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Explain
[10:15:40 PM] Rabla: Did you ever play Bioshock Infinite
[10:15:47 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: No
[10:15:55 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I have played very few games
[10:15:55 PM] Rabla: Damn, that would of been a good example..
[10:16:10 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: because I in general don't have a whole lot of money for games
[10:16:32 PM] Rabla: Okay, well just in general
[10:16:41 PM] Rabla: What was the last story-heavy game you played
[10:16:58 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: What are those?
[10:17:04 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Depends on what you mean by story heavy. Off maybe?
[10:17:18 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Awakening I guess
[10:17:37 PM] Rabla: Oh, Awakening is a great example
[10:17:41 PM] Rabla: Thats the literal outsider
[10:17:48 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: (psst what's awakening)
[10:17:53 PM] Rabla: dammitcapa
[10:17:58 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Hey don't do that
[10:18:05 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: remember the part where I'm poor
[10:18:15 PM] Rabla: What was the last RPG you played /D
[10:18:18 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Off
[10:18:36 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: or possibly that one Fire Emblem on my phone
[10:18:46 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I hope this Off is the sequel to a game called Fuck
[10:18:52 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Nup
[10:18:55 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: French Indie game
[10:18:57 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Damn it Pheo
[10:19:07 PM] Rabla: Well, Fire Emblem works
[10:19:13 PM] Pheonyx: huh why me?
[10:19:23 PM] Rabla: (Awakening is a Fire Emblem game)
[10:19:36 PM] Rabla: So lets say
[10:19:43 PM] Rabla: What was it
[10:19:50 PM] Rabla: You arrive in this world
[10:19:57 PM] Rabla: first time, you know nothing
[10:20:03 PM] Pheonyx: Can I marry the prince?
[10:20:12 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: But the game was already out in Japan for a year
[10:20:22 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I already knew the plot twist about Marth
[10:20:28 PM] Rabla: People come up to you and say “Hey, we’re going to this town to do x objective, do you want to come along since you look pretty lost”
[10:20:34 PM] Pheonyx: Really because I recall you being surprised about it.
[10:20:39 PM] Rabla: Is your first reaction
[10:20:46 PM] Rabla: Yes I will follow the story thread
[10:20:48 PM] Rabla: or
[10:21:03 PM] Rabla: No I want to do whatever I want this does not interest me at all
[10:21:10 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: How is a story thread programmed into a game that simulates life?
[10:21:10 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: "Sure, not like I can die, hey do you mind if I repeatedly loop time whenever one of you gets a shit level up?"
[10:21:35 PM] Rabla: I’m not using the world example right now
[10:21:47 PM] Rabla: If you can take an individual personality
[10:21:57 PM] Rabla: and put them into this world where the story is happening
[10:21:58 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: so they're groomed to grow in a certain way then?
[10:22:31 PM] Rabla: Lets say for story-heavy characters, yes, they were developed with certain traits and thought patterns
[10:22:40 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Fair enough.
[10:22:56 PM] Rabla: This guy is a royal prince, he firmly believes its his duty to go defeat the Big Bad
[10:23:01 PM] Rabla: Thats still his personality
[10:23:06 PM] Rabla: But its pre-written as the story
[10:23:12 PM] Pheonyx: No wait I want to marry his daughter instead
[10:23:24 PM] Rabla: My questions stands
[10:23:29 PM] Rabla: Do you go with these people
[10:23:44 PM] Rabla: What would your first response be
[10:23:49 PM] Rabla: I’M ASKING CAPA
[10:23:50 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Well no shit, that's where the game is
[10:23:51 PM] Kluck: I'd his daughter too
[10:24:02 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I'd both him and his daughter really.
[10:24:14 PM] Pheonyx: Oh well if we can have both \D
[10:24:40 PM] Kluck: (Ps. Marth is some fiiiiiiiiine 2D)
[10:24:52 PM] Rabla: This went off the deep end fast
[10:25:04 PM] Kluck: Oh
[10:25:09 PM] Kluck: Sorry right, deep end
[10:25:12 PM] Kluck: In this case
[10:25:20 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I'd go deep in her end
[10:25:22 PM] Kluck: (Ps. Marth is some fiiiiiiiiiine 3D)
[10:25:24 PM | Edited 10:25:29 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: If you know what I mean
[10:25:39 PM] Kluck: I'd stick the falchion in
[10:25:54 PM] Rabla: You guys are legitimately killing my dreams right now
[10:26:06 PM] Kluck: Congrats Rabla
[10:26:18 PM] Kluck: You drempt the worlds first sex simulator
[10:26:23 PM] Kluck: You'll be rich
[10:26:26 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I'd go with the story, but... Hmm. I think there's a distinct difference between if you use this to create an immensly immersive story and creating an open world
[10:26:35 PM] Rabla: Oh please, you can already do that on the Rift
[10:26:42 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Can we have some of your money Rabla?
[10:26:58 PM] Kluck: Your dirty, dirty money
[10:27:15 PM] Rabla: Yeah I get what you mean. I’m just trying to present a different example to the immersive open world
[10:27:21 PM] Rabla: I could see like
[10:27:22 PM] Rabla: GTA
[10:27:28 PM] Rabla: being absolute chaos
[10:27:38 PM] Pheonyx: Well GTA
[10:28:04 PM | Edited 10:28:19 PM] Kluck: So you have complete control over how the story would progress right?
[10:28:21 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I guess the real issue is if your actions leave permanent effects
[10:28:55 PM] Rabla: Well, sure, let’s assume you can
[10:29:00 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Not unless you reload saves
[10:29:03 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: lolololololololool
[10:29:27 PM] Pheonyx: This world probably comes with autosave
[10:29:34 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: But I'm pretty sure there could be moral issues with resetting an entire world of fully functioning individuals as well
[10:30:06 PM] Pheonyx: But they'd be completely unaware of such resetting
[10:30:21 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: True.
[10:30:40 PM] Pheonyx: Perhaps we're just another possibility of the Continuum Shift
[10:31:03 PM] Pheonyx: (continues to use examples everyone but capa will understand)
[10:31:36 PM] Rabla: hehe
[10:31:37 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Rabla won't understand either because he doesn't give a shit
[10:31:44 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And I don't think Kluck even played the story
[10:31:49 PM] Rabla: I know what the Continuum Shift is you idiot
[10:32:03 PM] Rabla: How many times do I have to say i DID like the story in that
[10:32:15 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: 634
[10:33:23 PM] Kluck: BB doesn't have a story
[10:33:25 PM] Rabla: It would be interesting
[10:33:27 PM] Rabla: to reload
[10:33:36 PM] Rabla: and have people act differently every time
[10:33:45 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And then to kill everyone when you get bored of the game
[10:33:49 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Wow, you bastard
[10:34:02 PM] Rabla: Way to be the first one to go there, Kanon
[10:34:16 PM] Pheonyx: Kanon would be the devil of our new world
[10:34:17 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: then again, that's basically erasing the experience of an entire civilizations worth of people
[10:34:44 PM] Rabla: I think it would just have to be
[10:34:55 PM] Rabla: accepting that its not real
[10:35:15 PM] Rabla: which could be hard to do in practice, I obviously can’t say since this doesnt exist
[10:35:25 PM] Rabla: You’d have to make a concious effort
[10:36:02 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I think if you've seeded a world that is as complex as you say it is, it's hard to be sure that it *isn't* real
[10:36:10 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: it's not the world you were born in for sure
[10:36:16 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: does that make it not real?
[10:36:17 PM] Pheonyx: Are we not real to our divine creators?
[10:36:58 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: No, those are the ones that are not real /D
[10:37:01 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: lololololololoolololololol
[10:37:50 PM] Pheonyx: How would you know? Perhaps the Capa of creation won the battle against the Kanon of Creation and decided to let the world run itself free from divine interference
[10:38:15 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: What kind of deity am I in this scenario
[10:38:32 PM] Rabla: Whatever you want
[10:38:33 PM] Pheonyx: The one who kept Kanon from killing everyone
[10:38:34 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: So what you're basically saying is
[10:38:36 PM] Rabla: Thats the point
[10:38:37 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: X-bros are gods
[10:38:42 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Awesome
[10:38:48 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: *x-brofist*
[10:38:53 PM] Pheonyx: no you have one good one and one evil one
[10:38:57 PM] Kluck: *X-fist*
[10:39:09 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: SLIENCE Y-MORTALS
[10:39:13 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: YOUR X-GODS DEMAND IT
[10:39:22 PM] Rabla: Can I just kick him and add him back later
[10:39:24 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: So it's a simulator for playing god then.
[10:39:30 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Now then
[10:39:31 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Rabla
[10:39:34 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: You tit
[10:39:34 PM] Pheonyx: That's what I thought since the start of this conversation
[10:39:48 PM] Rabla: Is it a god sim if you’re just a human within the world
[10:39:54 PM] Rabla: You can’t make massive changes
[10:40:07 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: What if we, our world, is a product of this technology? Would you consider yourself not real?
[10:40:22 PM] Rabla: If you can prove it
[10:40:29 PM] Rabla: Sure
[10:40:38 PM] Pheonyx: Some professors somewhere attempted to prove it
[10:40:42 PM] Rabla: I am apparently born with a fascination of this technology
[10:40:42 PM] Pheonyx: I forgot how that went
[10:40:57 PM] Rabla: If you told me I was a part of this and could prove it, that would be amazing
[10:41:20 PM] Rabla: Because then I’d know it was possible
[10:41:30 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Choochoo, the Kanon train and Rabla train have taken completely and utterly different tracks, the Kanon train will no longer try and question the Rabla trains logic on the subject of this being 'real'.
[10:41:39 PM] Rabla: thanks
[10:41:54 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: The Kanon train will continue to hurl insults at the Rabla train though.
[10:41:55 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Faggot
[10:42:00 PM] Rabla: rude
[10:42:05 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: You're not a regular human though, you're an anomaly.
[10:42:11 PM] Pheonyx: simulationception
[10:42:22 PM] Pheonyx: A simulation within a simulation
[10:42:25 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Come on Pheo, you can do better than that
[10:42:28 PM] Rabla: If you’re limited to what a human can do
[10:42:34 PM] Rabla: Are you not human
[10:42:38 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Not if you can reset the entire timeline
[10:42:39 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Simulception
[10:42:56 PM] Pheonyx: pff whatever
[10:43:37 PM] Pheonyx: Ah here we go, "If our world is a computer simulation, "the highest-energy cosmic rays would not travel along the edges of the lattice in the model but would travel diagonally, and they would not interact equally in all directions as they otherwise would be expected to do."

See simple enough
[10:44:02 PM] Rabla: How do they know it would travel diagonally
[10:44:36 PM] Rabla: where did the base for this advanced simulation come from
[10:44:42 PM] Pheonyx: hell if I know
[10:44:47 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And what the fuck is a Lattice?
[10:44:50 PM] Rabla: fucking scientists
[10:45:01 PM] Rabla: All this stupid shit, still no Portal Gun
[10:45:34 PM | Edited 10:45:39 PM] Pheonyx: a grid that makes up a 3D space
[10:45:39 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: See if you can reset the entire timeline, you are for all intents and purposes a god. If you can't, then your actions have permanence and you're morally at fault for everything you do.
[10:46:00 PM] Rabla: I guess
[10:46:05 PM] Pheonyx: Not to mention I'm sure Rabla's world will let me try again if I die
[10:46:10 PM] Pheonyx: Otherwise this really is a shit game
[10:46:15 PM] Rabla: Sure, thats a Game Over
[10:46:21 PM] Rabla: Reload last save
[10:46:25 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And a Game Over for everyone
[10:46:25 PM] Rabla: Its still a game
[10:46:27 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: They all died
[10:46:28 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: i think that was my original point
[10:46:36 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: It would make for a really bad game.
[10:46:39 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Way to erase everything asshole
[10:46:39 PM] Rabla: I can’t argue against that, sure
[10:47:24 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: But you don't care about them, because as established, dispite them being, for all intents and purpose, human, you don't think they are.
[10:47:31 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: IN SHORT: ur a butt
[10:47:52 PM] Rabla: You should try following the conversation sometime
[10:48:11 PM] Rabla: We already covered that
[10:48:28 PM] Pheonyx: I so hope this technology comes out within our lifetimes so we can literally have an epic battle for the fate of the world
[10:48:31 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Cappapheo, am I not correct in that sentance as to the views Rabla has shown he has?
[10:49:04 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Pheo your sense of morality scares me
[10:49:30 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Put Pheo down for another one who doesn't think they're real
[10:49:50 PM] Pheonyx: hey man I wouldn't kill this world like Kanon but I would give my soul to digital satan for this technology to be created
[10:49:51 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Typical Y-fags, all they care about is destruction.
[10:49:57 PM] Rabla: Its not “Thinking they’re not real”
[10:50:13 PM] Rabla: Its accepting they are bound to the universe they’re given
[10:50:14 PM] Pheonyx: You're the one who wants to kill them all!
[10:50:27 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: WHERE DID I SAY THAT?
[10:50:46 PM] Rabla: You were the first person to go for killing everyone when you get bored with the game /D
[10:50:57 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: No idiot
[10:51:06 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Turning the game off to never play it again
[10:51:10 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Is killing them all
[10:51:17 PM] Rabla: No its not
[10:51:20 PM] Rabla: They’re still there
[10:51:27 PM] Pheonyx: WAIT
[10:51:29 PM] Pheonyx: Is this an MMO?
[10:51:32 PM] Rabla: No
[10:51:41 PM] Pheonyx: psh
[10:51:52 PM] Rabla: New example
[10:52:04 PM] Rabla: Capa, please tell me you’ve at least played Animal Crossing
[10:52:07 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Nup
[10:52:14 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I'M POOR OKAY
[10:52:26 PM] Rabla: You need to stop being poor
[10:52:27 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: IT TOOK LITERALLY ALMOST ALL MY MONEY TO BUY THE LATEST POKÉMON GAME
[10:52:34 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: SURE GIVE ME YOUR MONEY, ASSHOLE
[10:52:47 PM] Rabla: Hey, I didn’t say *I* wasn’t poor
[10:53:05 PM] Rabla: I just got poor later than you did /D
[10:53:09 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: bullshit, your scraped together like 60+ dollars in change
[10:53:17 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Multiple times
[10:53:20 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Might I add
[10:53:20 PM] Rabla: Twice
[10:53:27 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: STILL MULTIPLE
[10:53:51 PM] Kluck: I'm not poor
[10:53:56 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Anyway, my point is you've created life
[10:54:06 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: HOW are you not poor Kluck
[10:54:06 PM] Rabla: I’ve agreed with that, yes
[10:54:08 PM] Kluck: JUST SAYIN'
[10:54:09 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Do you shit figs?
[10:54:29 PM] Pheonyx: figs don't sell for much in market
[10:54:44 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: and if you've created life, then you need to treat it with the same moral code that you treat regular humans
[10:54:49 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Oh hey Kluck did I show you my Big O?
[10:54:53 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: and that makes for a shitty game
[10:54:57 PM] Kluck: No
[10:55:01 PM] Kluck: Do I want to see it?
[10:55:18 PM] Pheonyx: He posted it to twitter
[10:55:34 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: https://twitter.com/KeyKanon_/status/410563328964968449
https://twitter.com/KeyKanon_/status/410563814178828291/photo/1

Here
[10:56:06 PM] Kluck: How much?
[10:56:09 PM] Rabla: If you never have to step outside the moral ground, and the game can progress without anything like that, is it still a shitty game
[10:56:13 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: 2000 yen
[10:56:20 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: He was a buildable
[10:56:20 PM] Kluck: What model?
[10:56:24 PM] Kluck: Pffffft
[10:56:26 PM] Kluck: K
[10:56:35 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: The one that doesn't cost over 10k /D
[10:57:26 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: [10:56 PM] Rabla: 

<<< If you never have to step outside the moral ground, and the game can progress without anything like that, is it still a shitty gameWhat kind of game would that be?
[10:57:46 PM] Rabla: Simulation game?
[10:57:47 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Animal Crossing /D
[10:57:54 PM] Kluck: Shitty
[10:58:24 PM] Pheonyx: speaking of morals I really aught to finish SMT
[10:58:30 PM] Rabla: RPG, all bad guys are monsters. You never kill a human. Is this breaking morals?
[10:58:54 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Depends on what defines a monster I suppose
[10:58:54 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Do these monsters have the AI? /D
[10:59:06 PM] Kluck: I wanna play an RPG from a baddie's perspective
[10:59:18 PM] Rabla: Kluck confirmed for wanting to kill everyone...
[10:59:26 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Answer me Rablaaaaaaa~
[10:59:37 PM] Rabla: No, they’re just monsters.
[10:59:39 PM] Kluck: Why?
[10:59:50 PM] Rabla: They have a single purpose, to KO you.
[10:59:52 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: So are they like animals?
[10:59:56 PM] Rabla: The big bosses are smarter.
[11:00:07 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: So the bosses are people
[11:00:10 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Way to kill them
[11:00:19 PM] Rabla: They’re animals in the sense of “This thing exists to murder you and that’s it”
[11:00:47 PM] Rabla: Would it be morally right to NOT kill it? If you let one get into a town, and that was due to YOUR action, what is that.
[11:02:10 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: That is also morally wrong, but I don't see how that strengthens your point.
[11:02:10 PM] Rabla: Just throwing ideas out there.
[11:02:18 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: hm.
[11:02:19 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And when you stop playing the game, there is nothing to stop the monsters
[11:02:21 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Everyone dies!
[11:02:41 PM] Rabla: Sorry, did all the Pokemon die after you saved and left it for a few hours
[11:02:57 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Not a valid counter.
[11:02:59 PM] Rabla: Did Team Flare win while you weren’t looking?
[11:03:27 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: so you're putting Life on hold while you go do something else
[11:03:27 PM] Rabla: If you ‘Save’ and stop playing the game
[11:03:34 PM] Rabla: thats not killing everyone
[11:03:55 PM] Pheonyx: you'd just be freezing time. To the npc's perspective, you would have never left at all
[11:04:42 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: And yet, when I said 'when you stop playing the game for good, you kill everyone' but Rabla was like 'N-NO IT NEVER STOPS EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT THERE'
[11:04:53 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: You can't just change how it works to suit the current argument
[11:05:06 PM] Pheonyx: Why is the game being run on a server if it's not an mmo?
[11:05:43 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Either everyone dies when you quit, or everyone dies while you're not there to defend them
[11:05:54 PM] Pheonyx: They dont' die, they just freeze
[11:06:12 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Effective death if you're never playing it again
[11:06:23 PM] Pheonyx: Also if this simulation was run for 500 years before you got there I'd assume the population could defend itself.
[11:07:22 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: You're the hero there to save the world, if you're not there, the bosses, which have been established as having intelligent AI, would eventually get shit done with no hero /D
[11:07:36 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: IIt's some Adult Timeline shit before Wind Waker.
[11:07:38 PM] Pheonyx: Since when do bosses leave the dungeon?
[11:07:51 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Now you're imprisoning them?
[11:07:56 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: These thinking feeling beings
[11:08:03 PM] Rabla: You’re missing the part where its still a game
[11:08:07 PM] Pheonyx: We've already established that monsters do not possess the same intelligence.
[11:08:37 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: "The part where these basically human AI are NOT HUMAN AND SHOULDN'T BE TREATED AS SUCH'
[11:08:43 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I find it difficult to link the game and the high level simulation
[11:08:44 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Fucking Racist.
[11:09:07 PM] Rabla: Not what I was getting at
[11:09:12 PM] Pheonyx: I'm not talking about human AI I'm talking about monsters
[11:09:17 PM] Rabla: The game follows the rules of the game
[11:09:26 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Rabla said the bosses had the AI
[11:09:35 PM] Rabla: No I didn’t, I said they were smarter
[11:10:16 PM] Rabla: Being smarter than standard enemies would be beneficial to the idea of a Boss Fight if they can strategize and learn your attacks the same way you learn theirs.
[11:10:47 PM] Pheonyx: My theory is that in order to ensure that the simulation would survive for the 500 year incubation period, the ecosystem of monsters and humans would be properly balanced that neither would go extinct from the other while the player character was not involved.
[11:11:03 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: hmm.
[11:11:06 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Interesting.
[11:11:07 PM] Pheonyx: Or at least that's how I'd program it
[11:11:56 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: See when you impose all these rules like this, it's not the "leaving it alone for 500 years to let it do its own thing" that was originally proposed
[11:12:00 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: So you're going to create a 500 year old world, intrude, 'save' it, then put it in eternal stasis
[11:12:27 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I think you're the villian
[11:12:29 PM] Rabla: The 500 year old world thing was something I was using to introduce the idea, and part of the conversation on an Open World game
[11:12:40 PM] Pheonyx: Stasis only if it wouldn't be running while you're not there. In which case you wouldn't need to care about the ecosystem while the player isn't involved.
[11:12:54 PM | Edited 11:13:07 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: alright. Can you redefine the world this is taking place in for me?
[11:13:23 PM] Rabla: Hmm
[11:13:39 PM] Rabla: We’re talking a standard RPG, so
[11:13:55 PM] Rabla: Long enough for a world to ‘settle’
[11:14:09 PM | Edited 11:14:17 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: A few ten's of thousands of years? /D
[11:14:19 PM] Rabla: I mean, Final Fantasy 1 had an entire hundred or so NPCs
[11:14:25 PM] Rabla: maybe less
[11:14:44 PM] Rabla: Its complicated because
[11:15:00 PM] Rabla: how old is the world in the STORY, compared to the actual game you’ve built.
[11:15:30 PM] Rabla: If you want a story of a world that’s existed for ten thousand years, do you simulate ten thousand years before you start altering and adding a story
[11:16:05 PM] Rabla: The limitations of how the ‘engine’ would work are kind of non-existant
[11:16:33 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Doesn't change the fact you're killing them all in the end
[11:17:18 PM] Rabla: When was the last time you played a GBA Pokemon game
[11:17:36 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Couple of beers
[11:17:57 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I want a beer now
[11:18:13 PM] Rabla: The world hadn’t changed while you were gone, because it was frozen at a savepoint. It’d be exactly like that.
[11:18:18 PM] Pheonyx: I think we could all use a beer at this point
[11:18:35 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: BUT EVENTUALLY, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GO BACK
[11:18:41 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: THIS KILLS THE WORLD
[11:18:47 PM] Rabla: No, it keeps it frozen
[11:19:26 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Everything falls apart eventually
[11:19:41 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: IT ALL COMES TUMBLING DOWN TUMBLING DOWN TUMBLING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN
[11:19:52 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: whatever storage it was on would eventually become corrupt, or whatever
[11:20:01 PM] Rabla: That would be death, sure
[11:20:38 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: This is starting to get a little bit too distant for me to wrap my head around it
[11:21:00 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Death is when the game will never be played again numbnuts.
[11:21:08 PM] Rabla: Guess we’ll have to wait for Kluck’s scientists to invent it and test it out
[11:21:15 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: It doesn't have to be a fantastical slaughter
[11:21:28 PM] Pheonyx: all things die eventually
[11:21:30 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Being turned off is death.
[11:21:39 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I feel the world in question has become radically different from what we started with. More rules and limitations have been introduced so it's more like a game than an actual life
[11:21:59 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Yeah well all things don't come into existance for some numbnuts to play with them for a few hours and then be done with it.
[11:22:46 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: Imma brb for food, cuppa, keep count of every time these Y-fag treat this AI as something less deserving of rights than humans.
[11:23:17 PM] Rabla: Everyone has their own sense of morals
[11:23:17 PM] Pheonyx: Even humans will eventually die. Should we not birth new people?
[11:23:55 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Kanon has a good point though.
[11:24:11 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Who are we to decide what Life gets to run its course and what doesn't?
[11:24:35 PM] Pheonyx: If no one decides then who starts life?
[11:25:11 PM] Rabla: Kanon is referring to real life in reality. Despite morals and questions and all that, if this concept ever becomes real, they will be treated differently in the end.
[11:25:27 PM] Rabla: All five of us can agree we shouldn’t touch it
[11:25:36 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: That's not the question Pheo, the question is who decides to end it.
[11:25:37 PM] Rabla: That doesnt change what other people will do
[11:26:03 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: What people will do isn't really a concern, if it is morally right is.
[11:26:41 PM] Rabla: If its a world that can be reset, and a medium that will one day cease to function
[11:26:57 PM] Rabla: Is killing an AI human, for a cause or for random fun
[11:27:07 PM] Rabla: A MAJOR thing to the world
[11:27:48 PM] Rabla: Is the first person to ever kill one of these people going to be shunned for the rest of his life?
[11:27:55 PM] Rabla: Is he going to be trialed?
[11:28:10 PM] Rabla: It can be morally wrong, sure
[11:28:19 PM] Rabla: But what effect does it have
[11:28:29 PM] Rabla: It only effects you, and your copy of the world
[11:28:34 PM] Rabla: And it can be undone
[11:30:26 PM] Rabla: ...that was the end of my point, if you want to comment on that or something
[11:30:39 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I'm thinking.
[11:30:45 PM] Pheonyx: nah you just kind of left us speechless
[11:30:53 PM] Rabla: Am I wrong?
[11:31:34 PM] Pheonyx: no, though you mostly asked questions rather than bringing up answers
[11:31:54 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: But if these people have real personalities, then everytime you reset you are erasing their experiences. Is this within our right?
[11:31:55 PM] Rabla: It was just my thoughts
[11:32:00 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: [11:25 PM] Rabla: 

<<< All five of us can agree we shouldn’t touch itAbsolutely not, just not in the stupid way you want to touch it.
[11:32:16 PM] Rabla: I said CAN, not that we DID.
[11:32:28 PM] Rabla: Stop picking apart single examples
[11:32:33 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: I feel more and more I'm arguing against the creation of this technology at all
[11:33:01 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: I am incrediably up for true AI.
[11:33:20 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: What I am not up for is not giving them the respect they deserve, which Rabla has
[11:33:35 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Redefinition; I am not up for true AI in games
[11:33:45 PM] Donkvee Kanonguillotine: That's better
[11:34:17 PM] Rabla: I am FOR True AI, obviously.
[11:34:43 PM] Rabla: Though the general view seems to greatly differ
[11:35:37 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: Incredibly complex AI, sure. But there needs to be a line drawn for AI that is effectively Sentient. Of course, what is sentient can be argued as well.
[11:36:05 PM] Rabla: Where does AI go from ‘incredibly complex’ to ‘sentient’, I guess.
[11:36:21 PM] Rabla: If they’re complex enough, they might as well be sentient
[11:36:46 PM] Didrik McCay Wickman: That's the question yes
[11:38:21 PM] Rabla: Pheooooooooooo
[11:38:50 PM] Rabla: Not to spring a huge question on you, but are you at a point where you could say you’re For or Against True AI
[11:39:01 PM] Rabla: or are you still in the middle
[11:39:51 PM] Pheonyx: In game or just general?
[11:40:18 PM] Rabla: Er, when I answered I guess I was leaning towards game use
[11:40:38 PM] Pheonyx: mm. Well not like it matters. I've been for this whole time.