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Embrace R1

* Deus can metal bend all of Darg's team, capable of one shotting 2/3rds of them

* Deus can abuse the metal in the arena and attack from blind spots

* Deus' projectiles can pierce concrete and attack multiple oppponents at once, while Darg's team lacks good piercing resist

* Atlas can submerge the arena with water and force a ringout

* Atlas can shoot strong projectiles and and freeze opponents

* Ihwa can copy powers with a touch and has a guaranteed hit with the 6th shot of projectiles

* Ihwa has multiple attack vectors that she will switch from and which the opponents have poor resistance to

* Ihwa can rust metal on contact

* Embrace's team are all fast, giving them the advantage against the speed equalized members of Darg's team

* Seiya has too many options to choose from

* Guts might attack his own team

* Ben 10000 is fake

* Embrace's team is durable enough to duke it own with Four Arms

***

Darg R1

* Embrace is hypocritical to call Seiya's decision making of which power to use when she's also running a chracter with a hodge podge of powers

* Seiya has the ability to turn his team and him invisible and will most likely use it

* Seiya can copy powers to counter opponents and immediately masters them

* Seiya can root opponents with fast hands that cover the battlefield to open them up to attacks

* Guts and Seiya have strong piercing

* Embrace's team's piercing resist and piercing isn't good

* Darg's team all hit very hard while most of Embrace's team is rather frail

* Deus' speed feat doesn't give a reference to his ability to move or fight in bullet timing timeframes

* Atlas' speed feat only gives a reference to the speed of his power activation and has been shown to be unable to physically dodge bullets from a farther distance

* Atlas' flooding ability is misrepresented and won't be effective in combat

* His freezing ability is slow enough that ordinary people can react to it

* Most of Ihwa's abilities will be a waste of time and is of vague speed

* Ben 10000 is real

* Darg's team have identifiable silhouettes so Guts won't attack them

* Deus opts to fire his own metal at opponents and then manipulate that rather than controlling the metal already on them

* He doesn't consistently break apart metal

* He tries to apply force or rip opponents with the metal

* The metal on Darg's team and their physical strength in general are too strong to be manipulated

* Embrace's esoterics and power switching isn't as effective as argued

***

Embrace R2

* Metalbending allows for BFR

* Iantis wears non metallic apparel

* Deus will use metal embedded in people

* Deus won't pass out from using his powers

* Deus will attack from blind spots

* Ihwa's electricity is fine

* Atlas can gather water fast and will use his big waves

* Code Adam bending speed are linked with body movement speed

* Deus does break metal and has strong manipulation of it

* Deus is fast and scales to Atlas

* Atlas is a consistent bullet timer and his projectiles are comparable in speed to bullets

* Ihwa scales to Condor who scales to Ihwa

* Ihwa's electricity makes her faster and she'll take hits to secure hits

* Ihwa can use her powers in a relevant timeframe to her speed

* Darg's team is slow

* Seiya arrow feat narration can't be trusted

* Medieval armor bad

* Embrace's team can block piercing attacks (circular scaling used. Deus can block icicles from someone stronger than Atlas who can pierce Deus's metal)

* Embrace's team has good dura

* Seiya can't copy abilities because he first uses it to copy magic?

* Atlas doesn't need line of sight to attack and neither does the rest of his team

* The hands don't have a quantifiable strength feat

***

Darg R2

* Deus' metal detection isn't combat relevant

* Deus pulls metal from a place he knows would have metal while looking at it, not a "sightless" feat

* Atlas' initial attack doesn't accurately hit and is reactable to normal soldiers

* Eyes in water statement is vague

* Ihwa's invisibility detection requires an opponent to turn invisible in front of her and then try to catch coins

* Metalbending feats involve Deus embedding metal into his opponents first

* His one feat of metalbending weapons is done once and not something that'll be consistently attempted

* Deus lacks any feats showing he would attempt to control worn metal

* Deus won't break an opponent's metal not the environment

* There are no inner metals to be ripped out on Darg's team, only held or worn objects

* "Levels x" statements are vague

* The concrete floor collapsing feat isn't impressive as described

* Deus' method of metal manipulation would allow for leverage

* Narration is accurate

* Seiya's speed is fine and consistent

* The argued behavior that Ihwa would copy her team's powers won't work due to the spawn points being far from each other

* Her team is not going to be aware of her intention to copy them and would charge the enemy, she also lacks movement speed feats

* Atlas' displayed speed feats aren't that good

* Atlas' ice isn't provably bullet speed, especially the larger applications of it

* Deus' speed feats are also bad

* Seiya is using a demonstrably better sword, the guy Ihwa fights is using a different weapon cutting at a different arc

* Atlas has no piercing resist and Deus' ice isn't always piercing

* Bad art doesn't justify the feat not being bad

* Deus' durability isn't as impressive as described

* The hands will at least hamper the movements of opponents

* Medieval armor is meant to block sword cuts

* Her application of electricity is shown as only either a force or heat vector, not for shocking

* Condor avoids most of Ihwa's attacks

* Rusting happens after an unspecified time of prolonged contact and she would avoid rusting weapons she wants to steal

***

Embrace R3

* Ihwa doesn't fight fair

* Deus doesn't manipulate metal on his opponents in the scan, because they aren't wearing metal in the first place

* Seiya's and Gut' armors are held by bolts and straps, which can be manipulated

* Atlas will fight with waves and incap

* Seiya and Guts have gaps in their armor

* Ihwa's electricity as a baseline can kill people, Darg needs to show electric resistance above that

* Ihwa can use abilities in a combat relevant timeframe

* Atlas is hitting bullets with his ice show he can follow them

* CA characters don't need to see their objects to manipulate them

* Atlas' big ice moves happen in relevant times to bullet timers

* Ihwa moves fast

* Seiya's speed feats happen at a large distance

* Atlas scales above Deus and should share piercing resist

* CA person scales above CA person (scans where) so strength feats should be comparable

* CA characters don't need line of sight

* Atlas isn't missing

* Seiya's power copying won't work

* Embrace's team can work around the hands

***

Darg R3

* Ihwa is rapidly switching through powers, she will most likely not use Deus' ability for long

* Deus has never been shown to metalbend the way he's described to

* The people the waves scale to don't actually have relevant speed feats other than fighting Atlas

* The guy was giving up and was actually never given a speed feat

* Flooding is not a consistent wincon

* Mist freezing isn't going to happen on this map

* Seiya fast

* Spider-Man antifeat isn't applicable

* Atlas' projectiles are telegraphed

* As argued, Embrace's team won't be fighting practically

* The speed of big ice stuff are still not provably fast

* The primary point is that CA characters can use abilities based on information from their eyes, the gunmen feat doesn't contradict this

* CA speed still bad

* Nothing shows that Atlas couldn't react, he doesn't really seem to care about what's happening

* Condor scaling to Ihwa is inconsistently portrayed

* Deus and Atlas won't provably work with Ihwa to allow for power copying and their lack of movement speed feats means they'll fumble around if they do try

* Ihwa is moving faster than him aiming not reloading and he stops to gush over her

* Ihwa has too large of queue of potential things to do for Embrace to make an accurate assessment of how she fights

* Darg's team still has good piercing resist

* Deus moves metal from places he knows they're at

* Metalbender interaction is vague for actual location determining

* Seiya could copy from a goddess that wasn't from that world

* Seiya's power copying is easier to pull off

***

Overall, a decent debate from both participants, if long-winded. First off, I believe Darg's team has a notable advantage through the invisibility. I don't think Embrace's arguments against it were really effective. The initial examples involve "Atlas seeing from his water," "Deus being able to detect metal," and "Ihwa noticing an invisible opponent from coins moving." I don't think the Atlas feat works as a counter against invisibility. Although he can see from water, the goons he's killing are obviously visible. There's not an example of him "seeing" an invisible opponent through the water. The Deus example is also not strong enough, as Darg points out it's basically him sussing out the general location of a metal object, not pinpoint aiming it. I think it's possible for him to eventually find out there are invisible opponents to use metal manipulation against, but it's not something I think he'll immediately be able to do. And Ihwa's counter for invisibility is obviously bad like Darg argued and Embrace seemingly conceding to as she moves onto Ihwa power copying to deal with it. But, she then have to knowingly use the powers for invisibility detection which isn't a guarantee. With this, it's likely that Darg's team would get free hits in and considering the strength of his team, this is very relevant.

Another big part of the debate was about metalbending, very cool and definitely not cringe. The arguments were a back and forth on whether Deus can metal bend their metal, will he even do it, how will he do it, and if it's even effective. I think that he can bend their metal, but I don't think it's something he would immediately open up with. He's been shown to overwhelmingly prefer to stab opponents with metal and then use that to maneuver them around. But, even with that, his application of trying to tear limbs or force them into the ground won't matter as Darg's team has the leverage to overpower the control with their physical strength. Add onto them being invisible, makes me believe an optimal initial usage of metalbending is less likely. On a similar note, I don't think Ihwa's metal rusting would be relevant in this fight. It relies on prolonged contact of a vague time and like Darg pointed out, she's unlikely to try and rust weapons that she's actively trying to steal.

The other big part of the debate revolved around Atlas' flooding ability. I buy his smaller icicles moving at comparable speeds to bullets, but his larger sculptures rely on iffy circular scaling and Darg puts enough suspicion on the validity for me to disbelieve them being that fast. I do agree with Embrace that the water gathering would be quicker than the feat where it's done due to being in the ocean, but the suspicion placed upon the gathering speed already makes me think it's not a game changer. Darg also points out that Atlas spends a lot of time prior not preparing the flood and fighting directly with characters instead. I believe in Darg's power copying argument for Seiya too, so it's probable that he could protect his team from a flooding using his own water manipulation.

The last really big argument was over speed. Ihwa's speed is clearly really good and Darg couldn't dispute that. The CA characters' were a little more suspect, but overall their reflexes and ability to use their powers within relevant timeframes were good enough. I think Seiya's speed is also decent as argued and the rest of Darg's team is obviously slower from being equalized. Embrace's team overall has better speed, but this is mitigated partially through the invisibility making their position and attacks unknown.

The CA characters on Embrace's team don't have impressive body movement feats and generally avoid attacks by blocking with their controlled element. Couple this with the invisibility of Darg's team, I think they'll be able to effectively close the gap and land a hit. Ihwa would have the durability to take their hits, but I don't buy the CA character's being durable enough. Atlas' durability feat is clearly bad, there's no reason to assume the walls are thick just because art is bad. Deus' feat isn't as bad as Darg says it is, but him being immobilized and stunned (as in not retaliating and just taking the attack) is true, so I don't think he'd be able to effectively stand up to a barrage of attacks. The piercing resistant shield feats are also bad. The sword Atlas blocks does less impressive damaged compared to the piercing on Darg's team. There's also strange inconsistent circular scaling used for Deus' shield as it's claimed he can block icicles that are stronger than the ones produced by Atlas, but one of the following examples of Atlas' piercing is directly shown to be piercing through Deus' shield. So Deus shield > Fyra ice > Atlas ice > Deus shield?

Embrace's esoterics like electricity and piercing (to Four Arms at least) would work on Darg's team I believe. Darg doesn't show his team have the bare minimum electric resistance to survive being shocked to death. But on the other hand, it's not a guarantee that Ihwa will use it as she cycles through her many options. This coupled with invisibility making their location unknown to her makes this win con chance even more slim. As is, the win cons on Embrace's team aren't concrete enough to be guaranteed and the clear strength advantage combined with invisibility on Darg's team makes me believe his team wins more times than not.