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[19:04:17] <DeadSuperHero> Okay, let's get started! :)
[19:04:24] <DeadSuperHero> How's everyone doing this week?
[19:04:35] <raven24> almost holidays
[19:04:39] <raven24> ;)
[19:04:47] <DeadSuperHero> Sweet!
[19:04:50] <maxwell> what holiday?
[19:05:09] <DeadSuperHero> half-Christmas?
[19:05:11] <raven24> university summer
[19:05:15] <SlackerD|2> good
[19:05:16] <maxwell> oh nice
[19:05:40] <DeadSuperHero> So I wanted to bring up a few community-related announcements first.
[19:06:10] <DeadSuperHero> First and foremost, our community contributor and podmin Justin Thomas is continuing his work on Scrypto, which is a Rails engine for encryption in Diaspora.
[19:06:19] <maxwell> or actually
[19:06:29] <maxwell> scripto can be used in any rails app
[19:06:35] <DeadSuperHero> Right.
[19:06:39] <maxwell> thats why its cool it is an engine
[19:06:47] <DeadSuperHero> But he's looking for testers over at his pod at serendipito.us
[19:07:00] <SlackerD|2> I'll check that out
[19:07:10] <DeadSuperHero> We're always looking to help a brotha out, and his work is really cool.
[19:07:46] <SlackerD|2> ummm
[19:07:48] <maxwell> yeah, if you are starting any new rails projects
[19:07:55] <SlackerD|2> not sure what is going on with his server
[19:07:59] <maxwell> you should try integrating it
[19:08:06] <SlackerD|2> I'm getting a lengthy page about PHP
[19:08:14] <maxwell> :P
[19:08:22] <DeadSuperHero> my bad. ser.endipito.us
[19:08:22] <SlackerD|2> "System Linux s11013.handsonwebhosting.com 2.6.18-308.8.2.el5 #1 SMP Tue Jun 12 09:58:12 EDT 2012 x86_64"
[19:08:29] <DeadSuperHero> Silly subdomains.
[19:08:37] <SlackerD|2> lol
[19:09:03] <maxwell> nice catch
[19:09:06] <DeadSuperHero> But if you're working on integrating your own Rails project with the D* codebase, let us know about it!
[19:09:37] <DeadSuperHero> Lots of cool little projects like Scrypto have an opportunity to branch out, grow, and get used by other Rails projects.
[19:09:43] <maxwell> yeah
[19:09:55] <maxwell> trying to make them general, and using d* as a guinea pig is best
[19:10:06] <maxwell> for example, the conversation code that it is built on top of it is a bit iffy
[19:10:13] <maxwell> but since it is built as an engine
[19:10:24] <maxwell> it will be easier to re-apply, and live on in other applications
[19:11:21] <maxwell> ok
[19:11:23] <maxwell> :)
[19:12:14] <DeadSuperHero> Similarly, Hans Fase, the podmin behind hfase.com, is working on an install script for deploying to Ubuntu servers.
[19:12:38] Betreten [JT] hat den Kanal betreten (~JT]@2001:470:e885:0:d41e:e8cc:a534:a09f).
[19:12:42] <DeadSuperHero> He hasn't released it yet, but I've been talking to him, and he's willing to have a few people look at it before he pushes it out to the masses.
[19:13:06] <raven24> yeah, I've looked at it (a few weeks ago) and it was in its early stages
[19:13:18] <raven24> but I guess it's improved since then
[19:13:27] <DeadSuperHero> He's been pretty excited about it, and he's working on improving it all over the place.
[19:13:40] <DeadSuperHero> Maybe you'd be willing to take a look at it again, raven24
[19:13:41] <DeadSuperHero> ?
[19:13:42] <DeadSuperHero> :)
[19:13:51] <maxwell> hey [JT] we just finished talking about scrpto
[19:13:59] <raven24> sure, still the same gist, I assume
[19:14:05] <[JT]> Oh? Sorry I'm late. :)
[19:14:12] <maxwell> its cool :)
[19:14:23] <SlackerD|2> I just joined your pod, Justin.
[19:14:40] <SlackerD|2> Photo uploading doesn't seem to work for the profiles.
[19:15:06] <[JT]> Hmm. That's odd. I haven't heard that before.
[19:15:10] <[JT]> I'll look at it.
[19:15:12] <maxwell> SlackerD|2: I'm sure [JT] appreciated the feedback, but a pm or an email follow might be best for now <3333
[19:15:18] <[JT]> Yep.
[19:16:12] <SlackerD|2> ok
[19:16:21] <maxwell> thanks!
[19:16:41] <DeadSuperHero> [JT], what kind of help do you need with testing out Scrypto?
[19:16:50] <maxwell> or anything else you wanted to mention?
[19:16:52] <DeadSuperHero> Do you need just user feedback, or would podmin feedback be useful as well?
[19:17:21] <[JT]> Both would be helpful. One thing that quickly bubbled up is that I need to improve key management (e.g., prevent duplicate keys).
[19:17:33] <[JT]> I'd really like to see the federation part work.
[19:17:44] <DeadSuperHero> What exactly would you need to federate with it?
[19:17:45] <[JT]> But that takes more commitment from someone to stand up a test pod.
[19:18:07] <[JT]> Just folks running the integrate-scrypto branch.
[19:18:31] <maxwell> maybe a post to the mailing list would help?
[19:18:38] <DeadSuperHero> I was just thinking that.
[19:18:46] <maxwell> I'm sure some people would be interested in helping out?
[19:18:46] <[JT]> That's a good idea; I'll send something out.
[19:18:53] <DeadSuperHero> Sweet!
[19:19:42] <maxwell> [JT]: i still want to give more feedback, i really think if you could make scypto a really really slick engine, lots of rails apps could throw it in their apps
[19:19:50] <DeadSuperHero> Totally.
[19:20:02] <[JT]> Sure - I'm open to all suggestions.
[19:20:06] <maxwell> i imagine like small bloggers really liking as an easy way to drop them secure messages
[19:20:13] <DeadSuperHero> :D
[19:20:15] <DeadSuperHero> That'd be sweet.
[19:20:26] <maxwell> i think it could move the needle much more than in just D*
[19:21:27] <[JT]> maxwell: I agree. There are some things that I had to spend more time than I wanted on to work with the idiosyncracies of D* (e.g., the Contact/Person setup in messages).
[19:21:39] <[JT]> But that's okay - it serves as a good initial platform.
[19:22:04] Betreten bkeefe hat den Kanal betreten (62d67070@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.214.112.112).
[19:22:21] <maxwell> [JT]: yup, we can talk more out of band but I think YOU really want it to be decoupled from our complicated stuff
[19:22:37] <[JT]> Absolutely - as much as possible.
[19:22:37] <DeadSuperHero> modularity is a good thing.
[19:23:05] Betreten dave_y hat den Kanal betreten (~dave_y@ip68-4-205-245.oc.oc.cox.net).
[19:24:25] <bkeefe> So what kind of changes has D* been going through recently?
[19:24:39] <maxwell> bkeefe: we have been talking about them
[19:24:49] <bkeefe> I've seen some incremental changes on Github here and there, Are there big changes planned?
[19:25:54] <raven24> bkeefe: I recommend you read the http://devblog.joindiaspora.com/
[19:26:13] <bkeefe> thanks!!!
[19:26:23] <maxwell> raven24: thx
[19:26:28] <raven24> you'll get a gist of all the going-ons and (most of the time) weekly updates
[19:26:49] <maxwell> also
[19:27:02] <maxwell> frenetic found a race condition in federation code which is causing some errors
[19:27:37] <maxwell> s/he is not here, but i wanted to send a big shout out to them for doing the due dillengene on documenting it
[19:27:44] <maxwell> race conditions are hard :(
[19:27:59] <DeadSuperHero> I can imagine.
[19:28:41] <maxwell> esp. in such a frustrating part of the codebase
[19:28:51] <raven24> is the proposed change in the issue gonna help?
[19:28:54] <bkeefe> what exactly does the problem do?
[19:29:11] <maxwell> raven24: honestly, I am not sure
[19:29:20] <raven24> bkeefe: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/3420
[19:29:31] <maxwell> his diagnosis of the problem sees right to me
[19:29:34] <DeadSuperHero> raven24, nice!
[19:30:15] <bkeefe> It looks like he/she is already working on a fix.
[19:30:20] <bkeefe> Good to know!
[19:31:14] <maxwell> so helping verify whatever he comes up with would be awesome
[19:31:31] <raven24> I guess we really need a federation-testuite
[19:31:51] <maxwell> yeah unfortunately, testing race conditions are really hard
[19:32:12] <raven24> true...
[19:32:33] <maxwell> these are indicative about why we need a different strat for federation in general
[19:32:47] <maxwell> or distrubtuted-ness in general
[19:33:15] <maxwell> sigh
[19:33:38] <maxwell> well, so one other thing that people have been asking about (/hatip raven24 )
[19:33:50] <raven24> :)
[19:33:52] <maxwell> is something new that dennis, daniel and I have been working on this summer
[19:34:06] <maxwell> is called makr.io
[19:34:06] <DeadSuperHero> It's really sweet.
[19:34:23] <maxwell> i mention it because it started as doing UX experiments for D*
[19:34:43] <maxwell> the reason we started in another place was so we could make lots of changes without making people mad
[19:34:53] <maxwell> something we have not been good at in the past
[19:35:03] Spitzname offSchub nennt sich jetzt DenSchub.
[19:35:08] <maxwell> but one problem that we found while doing d* for the past couple of yrs
[19:35:43] <maxwell> is that, in addition to technical owning the bits, people need tools to actually MAKE stuff on the internet
[19:35:44] <DenSchub> huh? Why am I always missing the meetings? o_O
[19:35:54] <maxwell> dude, same time every two weeks
[19:36:06] <DenSchub> my brain...
[19:36:10] <DenSchub> hi there!
[19:36:15] * DeadSuperHero hugs DenSchub
[19:36:16] <maxwell> hey sir
[19:36:17] <DeadSuperHero> it's okay.
[19:36:41] <maxwell> so, we wanted to experiment with some completely different ways to solve these related problems
[19:37:15] <maxwell> its much more focused on helping be creative in an internet native way
[19:37:23] <DeadSuperHero> You could think of makr as an evolution of a set of ideas about how the social web could work.
[19:37:33] <maxwell> the main point I want to stress, is that its a separate project with related goals
[19:37:46] <maxwell> but its trying to break up this big problem spaces into separate things
[19:37:49] <raven24> as a personal feedback for makr.io: I really don't like that sort of thing. I guess I don't want to be that creative, and write text instead ;)
[19:38:00] <maxwell> raven24: totally Ok!
[19:38:10] <maxwell> in fact thats really good feedback
[19:38:35] <maxwell> we by no means see it as something that will be the universal 'social network' expereicne
[19:38:35] <maxwell> but
[19:38:45] <maxwell> we did want a space to innovate on HOW people communicate
[19:39:05] <maxwell> and maybe(hopefully) build something that is make unequivocally better by being a distributed system
[19:39:34] <maxwell> the next generation of the social web needs it own way to communicate.
[19:39:43] <raven24> yeah, I can imagine people going crazy for that sort of thing,
[19:39:46] <maxwell> i don't know if makr.io is it, but we needed a space to experiment
[19:39:47] <DeadSuperHero> Not only to communicate, but it's a different way to use social software.
[19:40:17] <maxwell> the important part that is missing from d*, that we are tying to understand with makr, is about creating new things
[19:40:21] <DeadSuperHero> The design focuses a lot on remixing and creating content, to add your own personal voice to the mix.
[19:40:31] <maxwell> and making a system where actually borrowing things from other places and putting your own spin on it
[19:40:47] <maxwell> and make that oK
[19:40:57] <maxwell> because if everyone in the world is going to care about their data
[19:41:06] <maxwell> they need to feel like it really means something to them
[19:41:24] <maxwell> and i don't think current social system, d* included, really institutionalize that feeling
[19:41:42] <maxwell> certainly, a bunch of smart nerds know what is at stake, but most people dont
[19:41:55] <maxwell> and we want to try and move the needle to make the web a positive place for everyone
[19:42:00] <DeadSuperHero> user data, at this point, is little more than abstract representation of how social data is paresed.
[19:42:10] <DeadSuperHero> *parsed
[19:42:31] <raven24> like the mess that was myspace customizations, but with a nice 'container' for each individual message :)
[19:42:32] <maxwell> it is both fundamental, and completely misunderstood
[19:42:52] <maxwell> raven24: not only that, but enabling new modes of production
[19:43:00] <maxwell> memes are creating silly messages today
[19:43:21] <maxwell> but it very well could be the way that ideas are created and proliferated in a distributed and non centralized manner
[19:43:33] <maxwell> ^^ right now, that is just a hypothisis
[19:43:37] <maxwell> but one we want to explore further
[19:44:32] <raven24> I guess that can be really hard, since like, pictures of people or popular culture can be really location-specific
[19:44:47] <raven24> so, not to create a bunch of 'inside jokes'
[19:44:57] <bkeefe> is Makr still going to be Open Source?
[19:45:01] <maxwell> so tl;dr makr.io, separate project, related goals that came out of questions we had from d*; two parts to owning your data we need to solve, technical and emotional
[19:45:16] <raven24> bkeefe: https://github.com/makrio/makrio
[19:45:30] <maxwell> https://github.com/makrio/makrio
[19:45:34] <maxwell> whoops
[19:45:36] <maxwell> thx raven24
[19:45:38] <raven24> ;)
[19:45:56] <maxwell> raven24: a good point, we are trying to figure out how we make it better for small groups of people
[19:46:09] <maxwell> we are trying to take a lot of our learnings from d* here
[19:46:35] <maxwell> i.e., we never really ended up building something that us and our friends want to use, and while we were able to spark the imagination of people all over the globe
[19:46:37] <bkeefe> what's going to happen to D?
[19:46:46] <maxwell> it was kinda lonely for what we original intended
[19:46:55] <maxwell> bkeefe: as I said, nothing is going away or stopping
[19:47:02] <bkeefe> oh. phew!
[19:47:07] <maxwell> they are separate projects
[19:47:36] <maxwell> but unfortunately they both require our time :)
[19:48:03] <DenSchub> and "unfortunately" makr.io get's more time right now.
[19:48:04] <maxwell> one is trying to create a next generation personal publishing platform
[19:48:13] <maxwell> and the other is the basis of its distrubution
[19:50:19] <bkeefe> so will D* end up sharing any of the code that Makr is getting?
[19:50:59] <DeadSuperHero> bkeefe, technically speaking, Makr already does share code with D*. ;)
[19:51:16] <maxwell> i think it is a possibility, there is some stuff that we fixed. a lot of the 'fixing' for some of the d* code is just ripping it out
[19:51:47] <maxwell> we realized that it was in nobodies interest to continue the radical changes as feature flags in the current code base
[19:51:51] <maxwell> causes too many bugs for everyone
[19:52:01] <maxwell> and doesn't help us make something simple and good
[19:52:08] <maxwell> versus something broad and shallow
[19:52:29] <bkeefe> makes sense.
[19:54:02] <bkeefe> how can the community help with Makr?
[19:54:52] <maxwell> well, the community can help diaspora if they want by trying to pull fixes out of it
[19:55:22] <maxwell> there are some decent refactorings of photos
[19:55:54] <maxwell> and some other things
[19:56:00] <maxwell> if someone was up to that
[19:56:06] <bkeefe> :)
[19:56:13] <maxwell> that would actually be huge
[19:56:22] <maxwell> but its a fair amount of work
[19:56:30] <maxwell> and would require someone pretty awesome and dedicated
[19:56:55] <maxwell> bkeefe: thanks for the question
[19:56:59] <maxwell> anyone else?
[19:57:04] <bkeefe> thanks for the answer!
[19:57:51] <maxwell> ok I need to go get myself some coffee from the store
[19:57:56] <DeadSuperHero> kk
[19:58:00] <maxwell> so email me maxwell@joindiaspora.com if you have any questions
[19:58:04] <DeadSuperHero> Thanks for coming everyone! :)