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Supplemental document for: "Theory that Roger Stone's back channel to Wikileaks was Randy Credico", link: https://wakelet.com/wake/2d352ae9-febe-44a1-a7bb-51674a2e4bf5

Randy Credico on Jimmy Dore. Broadcast date: November 28, 2017. Transcript runs from beginning to 22:40.

File link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wcd2f1tY0k

JIMMY DORE
Hi everybody, welcome to the show. I have a special guest on right now, he's a great comedian, but he's also a political activist, and he's a journalist, and he's been summoned by the House Intelligence Committee, to talk about Russia involvement in our election, and all things Russia. His name is Randy Credico, I have him on the phone right now. Hi Randy, how are you?

RANDY CREDICO
Hey. Very good, Jim. Jimmy. Thank you for having me on the show. How are you?

DORE
I'm doing good. Now...I just want people to know, I have you picture up, I want everybody to know that you are the real deal, you were instrumental in getting the Rockefeller Drug Laws re-written, you've been essential in getting lots of people out of prison over a- unlawfully imprisoned. And lots of people have hailed your work. And they've done a documentary on your work, called "60 Spins Around The Globe" [sic - "60 Spins Around The Sun" link to film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96cUhhiUhw4 ]. It- it's- You're what everybody should aspire to be. And you've also done interviews with Julian Assange, recently. Because you're a big free speech activist. And so now, you got a letter, from Adam Schiff, who, we've lampooned him here on the show, from the U.S. House of Representatives, House Intelligence Committee. Tell me what's going on.

CREDICO
Well, I got a...I think about two and a half, three weeks ago, I pretty much kept this buried, a letter from them, asking me to appear before them, voluntarily, go before them, and talk about Russia-gate. It's a huge letter that they sent me, I think I sent it to you. [DORE: Yes.] Signed by Adam Schiff, and so...I mulled over about two weeks, and then I sent them a letter saying: no, I will not voluntarily testify, or be interviewed by the House Intel Committee, on Russia-gate, basically. So, I got a phone call from my lawyer, saying, well, they are going to send you a subpoena. So. That should be coming, either today or tomorrow, through my lawyer, trying to compel me to testify, you know, about my association with Julian Assange, you know, people that I've- You know, I've been- Like you, I've been really focused on free speech, and Wikileaks, and- and this bogus Russia-gate operation that's going on, and some of the creepy characters that are involved, including Adam- Adam Schiff, the guy, let's be honest, like, sixty percent of his- of his donors, are in the arms business. You know? So, it's a little troubling, I'm a little nervous. Am I going to go down there? I'm probably going to go down there, I'm certainly not- I have nothing to say to them.

DORE
So, what do you think this is really about, then? What do you think, they're trying to intimidate you, or- What is this about?

CREDICO
I think it's going after Wikileaks. First of all, they call them, as you have mentioned many many times, "a hostile intelligence entity." Right? Pompeo has called them that, and it's now language that is encoded in our last budget bill, I believe. So, I'm over- I was over there twice in the last two weeks. I had lunch with him [Assange], we talked about the "Jimmy Dore Show", he loves the "Jimmy Dore Show". You gotta get him on your show, Jimmy. So, so, they don't want- they don't want- they don't want him to put stuff out there. As you have pointed out, time and time again, this man has never been contradicted, or impugned. Any of his releases are 100% _accurate_. He's an accurate journalist. And they're trying to treat him like a hostile intelligence operation. Now, you got The Daily Beast, you got the- these other on-line operations, the Washington Post, The Smoking Gun, they put out material by Guccifer II - why aren't they being classified as hostile intelligence operations? They don't want this guy to be getting stuff out there. He's a powerful journalist, they don't want that material to be out there, in the public, they don't want us to be knowledgeable, and they're trying to intimidate people like _me_. And I know you've been intimidated yourself, you have people saying bad things about you, in Congress, I- recently, I believe. And- And so, they don't want him to put stuff out there, they don't want people like me, uuuh, talking with him, I've been, like I said, I visited three times since September. And, not only me, now, a couple of his lawyers are going through the ringer too, with Diane Feinstein, on the Senate Intel Committee side.

DORE
Oh, no kidding.

CREDICO
Yeah, I can't mention their names, but I can tell you, a couple of lawyers have received similar letters, to appear before the Senate Intel Committee. That work with Julian Assange!

DORE
So...this is basically, again, the...establishment, along with the intelligence community of the United States, wanting to shut down a truthteller. This is a- This is the oldest story in the world, by the way. And so, they've used propaganda to turn Julian Assange, who is a publisher of information, none of it ever been false, like you stated, and that's what he does - right? - and he exposes the crimes of the powerful. So, he's made lots of powerful enemies, and now they've hoodwinked half the country into thinking somehow he's an "enemy" of- of liberty and democracy, and the United States. When it's the exact opposite. Right? He's actually upholding those principles, and the people who uphold those principles actually, evenly, we pillory, in this society, and [CREDICO: Right.] - and, by the way, called for his assassination. And I try to remind people- [CREDICO: Exactly.] Can you imagine if Donald Trump called for the assassination of Jeff Zucker? And CNN. [CREDICO: Right.] Or Phil Griffith over at MSNBC. Can you imagine if he did that, but Hillary Clinton did it, and it didn't matter. Hardly got a bleep in the media. So, you're talking about Julian Assange, and they're trying to intimi- Now, you went over and visited him, interviewed him, and so you think this is an attempt to discourage people from doing that?

CREDICO
Well, I don't think they want him to get out. They wanna contain him. They don't want his stories out- El Pais just went after him, which is the establishment New York Times / Washington Post of Spain, because he did incredible reportage on the situation in Catalan. The independence movement. He was the only one, and that's where I got the information. I certainly wasn't getting it anywhere else, I got the information from his postings on twitter. [DORE: Right.] And incredible postings, and now they're going after _him_. You know, when I was there, there was a picture in El Pais, of two people visiting the embassy, two people from Catalan, that had been there, five or six days earlier [visit by Oriol Soler and Andreu Grinyó - Soler has openly admitted to this meeting; it was published in English in El Pais here: https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/11/13/inenglish/1510565565_636373.html ] - they put it in like it was the paparazzi, that took the pictures, when in fact, it was a government spy camera in a window, which was geometrically- geometrically proven to me, that it was the same- Both pictures came from the same angle, looks like a different shot [the photos that accompany the El Pais article are copyrighted, with a larger watermark, to the paper]. And uh, you know, it's scary stuff. Like, if you go in there, go into the embassy, you have to go through a lot of security to get inside, and he- He's been in there, five years and a half. Right? Almost six years. Coming in June. And I gotta tell you something, this man still pumps out great material, he still has a commitment, he still has the energy, and you know, thank god there are people like _you_ out there, that are defusing some of the B.S., so people can see what you say, to analyze it correctly. You're the only one that's analyzing it correctly.

DORE
Well, it's-

CREDICO
And I really have to- I really got to give you high fives for that, because _you have_, and I can see you're a great comic and a journalist, at the same time. You have restored some sanity to comedy.

DORE
A-ha! Well, thank you, Randy, that's a high compliment. I really appreciate it. I wanted to ask you about the letter they sent you. Because I read it, and in it, it says, the letter also requests "preservation and production of all documents, records, electronically stored, information, recordings, data, and tangible things including, but not limited to...." - uh - "graphs, charts, photographs, images, and other documents, regardless of form. Other than those widely available e.g. newspaper articles, related to the committee's investigation, your interview, and any ancillary matters." So, they want to have access to everything that you have, in your completely- in your life, it seems like. As a journalist. Do they want- Have they subpoenaed your notes or anything?

CREDICO
You know, I'm gonna get a copy of Laura Kightlinger's "60 Spins Around The Sun", and say, those are the only documents that I have. Let them watch that, alright? Because, I- No, I have not seen the subpoena, they threatened- they threatened to send it, and it just hasn't come - I don't even know- Look, technologically, what am I? I'm like a-a-a- Alley Oop [cartoon character who is a pre-historic warrior], is more into technology than me. I have no idea what I'm doing. I can talk on the cell phone - I don't even know how to use Skype! Okay?

DORE
Ha! [that's it - a single ha] So-

CREDICO
Otherwise we'd be doing Skype right now. I don't know how to use it.

DORE
Okay. I hear you. I understand. I gotcha. It's very easy. You can even do it off your phone. Doesn't matter. So...so Randy, so what are you going to say to them, when they bring you up to the- to the committee? What- what- are you going to tell them what you guys talked about when you met- I mean, you- you freely tell people what you guys talked about, anyway, right?

CREDICO
Right. Well, I've had him on the show, I think, four times, on my radio show. Four times. And I will- I'll let them have those files- In the Pacifica archives. But anything that I said, behind closed doors, with him or anybody else, on my radio show, I have nothing to say to them, and you know what? They can get it anyway, because you just go to one of these metadata centers, in Fort Meade, or Utah, and everything's stored. I mean, why do they say, I should- They've already preserved it. They got it preserved. Everything. Talk to William Binney, or Thomas Drake. All of these conversations are already preserved, so - it would be redundant for me to try to preserve stuff that they've already kept on file.

DORE
Ha. [again - a single ha] Well, so- What do you think- Just- Moving on, so you promise to come talk to us after you go to that hearing, correct?

CREDICO
I- I- I dunno, but I am going to quote...Dalton Trumbo, what he said, in 1947 or '48. I'm gonna use his words, which I have not f- I'm not going to dignify, or legitimize this witch hunt. It is a _witch hunt_, they want a Cold War, you know, they- This is the same thing that happened, remember, in- in the Fifties, they wanted a Cold War with Russia, and they did it with that entire Red Scare witch hunt. So, they brought that back to life, they want to have a C- They don't want a nuclear war! They just want to have a Cold War. When you have all of these weapons, you know, when you have a seven hundred billion dollar defense budget, you gotta spend it somewhere. We've got China surrounded, like a noose, four hundred bases, Russia we got a hundred bases around them, Syria - I think you put up a map the other day, Iran, we got bases everywhere - how many bases does Russia have over here?

DORE
Right, right. Exactly. Zero.

CREDICO
I have not seen one!

DORE
Well, people don't realize, Randy, that this is a completely- Russia is a paper tiger, in the sense that, it's been completely propped up to be more powerful and scarier than it is, because the military industrial complex, and the Deep State, they need an enemy, right? So, now that people are figuring out we're the ones creating terrorists, they're starting to have to figure out ways to keep this military budget going, and I really believe that's behind a lot of this, ramping up- I mean, Dennis Kucinich was on my show, and he talked about how the Deep State had undermined Barack Obama's deal with Russia, to share information about what was happening in Syria. And they didn't want that to happen. They wanted us to keep fighting in Syria, right? They didn't want co-operation. They want exactly what you're saying. They want the Cold War to keep going on. And so, that's why this- And- And- How sickening is it, to you, Randy, to see the lefty media, or quote unquote "lefty media", is the one now pushing the new Red Scare? How- I mean, Russia- [CREDICO: Right.] Just to finish my point before - Russia only spends 
sixty five billion dollars a year on their military, we spend now seven hundred billion dollars a year on our military, and we don't-

CREDICO
That's what's on the books! That's on the books! Seven hundred billion on the books. We don't know what the off the books uh, you know [DORE: Right.] cash flow [sic - expenditures, he means ] is, in there. That's ten percent. Ten percent! Ten percent. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

DORE
So...No, so I'd just say, how- I'm- People always say to me, "Jimmy, you're getting this thing wrong about Russia." And I say, "Wherever there is evidence, to show, I will report it." Until then, I'm not going to report rumor. Okay? Because that's all this is, and propaganda. Until there's evidence, which you and I both know, there _never will be_, because the DNC [CREDICO: No.] and John Podesta did not let the FBI or the Department of Homeland Security, to investigate their servers. And why- And now we're supposed to believe the DNC and John Podesta, who have been proven liars, they lied for years straight, about whether they funded the dossier [this is the Steele dossier], they lied constantly about whether they hijacked the DNC, and whether the primary was rigged. So, they're the biggest liars and cheaters in the world, and somehow we're supposed to believe them on this.

CREDICO
When I hear them talk about, how they interfered with "our democracy", [DORE laughs, DORE: Yes!] you take a look at these fifteen people on the committee, "our democracy". Right now we're spending seven hundred thousand dollars in Hungary, trying to interfere with their elections - but that's okay. Right? And they've got like one tenth our population. Seven hundred - and Russia supposedly spent a hundred thousand dollars in Facebook, I didn't see one of their ads. As if that would have any influence uuuuuh As far as this entire operation that's going on, with Russia-gate, you take a look at- You are right! There was interference, in our democracy, and it was done by the Democratic National Committee. [DORE laughs] When they screwed Bernie Sanders. That is the- That is where the focus should be, they should have an intel committee investigating everyone involved, including John Podesta, and undermining our democracy, which was the democratic primary system.

DORE
Yes! There's a lot of people who influenc- How about the- people in New York City, who worked for the government, who threw two hundred thousand voters off the rolls, and they- admitted they did it illegally now. And guess what? None of those people are going to jail. Isn't that funny? Isn't that weird.

CREDICO
Yeah. Yes. They said "Oh! Oops! We have proof!" Yes.

DORE
We have documented-

CREDICO
We have proof.

DORE
-documented election hacking, there it is, no one goes to jail, and it barely gets reported. Isn't that amazing? [CREDICO: Yeah.] So, that's what makes me believe this is all propaganda, and I have to remind people, Randy, that the reason why half the country is poor, or low income, and sixty three percent of Americans can't afford a thousand dollar emergency, has nothing to do with Russia. The reason why people go bankrupt when they get sick, has nothing to do with Russia. The reason why we are in, spending seven hundred billion dollars a year has nothing to do with R- on the military, has nothing to do with Russia. And the reason why you are in a mountain of debt when you want to go to college, and we don't have any gun legislation [Credico would be very opposed to such gun legislation anyway] - none of that stuff, has anything to do with Russia. And that's what they want us talking about. They want us talking about Russia. But guess what? I travel as a comedian, and I know people like you know comedians, people in America don't give a shit about Russia. And they see through it.

CREDICO
Absolutely.

DORE
I try to tell people, "If you really oppose Trump, you wouldn't be talking about Russia, you'd be talking about his horrible tax plan, or his health care plan, or what he's doing-"

CREDICO
Or the deportations! The deportations of Haitians! The deportations of Salvadorans! The deportations of other people! There's a lot- Tax plan! That's coming up, that you just mentioned. There's a lot of reasons to not like Trump, to oppose Trump, but this isn't the one! This is- This is a false lead! And- and people don't care. You know, I don't know anybody- Two and a half million people in prison in this country, why aren't they talking about that? Why isn't Adam Schiff talking about...two point five million of his fellow Americans, one percent of the population that are rotting behind- A prison system that has no oversight, you know, Dostoevsky said, "You can judge a society by...the conditions of the prisons." Ours are in horrible shape, and the criminal justice system, they talked about reforming it - forget about it. So, what's going on in the new- amping up the drug war, with this clown, this racist, Jeff Sessions, that's what we should be focusing on, not Russia-gate!

DORE
Yeah...I couldn't agree with you more. It's uh- But how shocked are you to see other comedians, your peers, fall hook, line, and sinker, and I'm not talking just about Stephen Colbert, and the guy, Trevor Noah, and pushing this stupid fucking Russia thing, but- How surprised are you by just regular club comedians who are pushing it also?

CREDICO
I- I cannot believe it. Because I can't go on Facebook anymore. There's a good reason not to go on Facebook, because it's a dossier that you're supplying them, a full dossier, but- I just- I get too upset when I see all these comics that I'm friends with, falling for this Rus- and people are- you and I know, a lot of people out there in Los Angeles, I don't want to mention any names, but every single one of them, seems to be falling for this Russia-gate garbage. They're all buying it, hook, line, and sinker. Thank god that you're there. As I said, you- Just like John Pilger said, "Julian Assange has _restored_ decency to journalism," you have restored decency to political comedy, and you're the only one! The most trusted name in comedy is Jimmy Dore right now.

DORE
[slightly forced laugh] Well Randy, that's a high compliment, coming from you. You actually...you know, I have-

CREDICO
I love you and Barry Crimmins. I don't think Barry Crimmins is talk- [Possibly: "I don't think Barry Crimmins is talking to me right now." Credico cited Crimmins as the central reason for his September 2016 trip to London where he visited the Ecuadorian embassy. ] And some others. That are out there, and don't buy it, you know - I think Katie Halper is not buying it, and some others-

DORE
Yes.

CREDICO
The vast majority of people I know, who are _comedians_, and you know, the thing is, you've been doing this for a long time. You've been doing comedy for a long time. Alright? You're a wise guy. And...you're younger than I am, but you're a wise individual. And- So- You paid your dues in political humor. These people were doing McDonald's humor, two or three years ago. Relationship material, three years ago. They're Johnny come latelys to this! They don't understand it!

DORE
I know.

CREDICO
I feel sorry for them. They don't have any background, in political humor, because they didn't get into it.

DORE
Uuuuh...thank you very much. [laughs] For saying that. Yes! I- I- I know, just- People who started paying attention because of Trump, it's like, okay, you're missing the whole back story. You're missing the whole- You can't just- You have to nip it in the bud. Now you're just going after the flower. Trump is what happens, you have to go after the roots. Problem. [sic] And that's what people don't understand. And that's why people think people like you and me, are just kinda like cranky agitators, but what we really are, are people who can tell you how we got here. And what we need to do to get out of it. [CREDICO: Right.] And even the labor unions, Randy, are agreeing with us, agreeing with us - now, they've came together [sic], I don't know if you know this, but they had a- they had a convention, where they decided that the lesser of two evil voting is gotta end, _now_. So they've defined [CREDICO: Right.] Even the teachers' union. People are coming around to our way of thinking, you and me is what I'm talking about.

CREDICO
I- I hope so. I hope so. Can I say one thing? What- And I remember you talking about this. Under Obama, where were they when he was passing the NDAA or HR 347 or- or keeping the Patriot Act, in stone, there are a lot of things- And he passed all of those powers onto Trump!

DORE
And to Trump! In fact [CREDICO: Right!] he-

CREDICO
Who gave it to him! Obama!

DORE
And so, what I would say to people, Randy, before the inauguration? If you guys are- If Trump is really as crazy as everybody says he is, why isn't Barack Obama scrambling like a maniac, trying to rescind all those executive powers he gave people, he's going to give to Trump right now, to spy on people. Why isn't he trying- In fact, he was doing the opposite, you know that, Randy, he was actually trying to expand the powers of the government to spy on people.

CREDICO
Right. The NSA grew big-time under him. The spying- I mean, this guy went after eight, nine, ten people - Thomas Drake, others. William Binney. Others under the espionage act. It was used more times by him, than the previous thirty presidents since Wilson. The espionage act. There are people in jail because of this guy. And...I don't know if Trump has done it yet, but he set a record, using - and here's a guy who's a Harvard lawyer, and he's a constitutional lawyer, and yet he allowed these things to happen, and then he goes off and hangs off [sic[ with Richard- [DORE: Branson.] Yes. On an island that was stolen from somebody. Alright?

DORE
I know. Well, listen Randy, I really appreciate you taking time, I know a lot of people want to talk to you now, I mean, today and tomorrow, and-

CREDICO
That's it. You're my last interview. I- You know, I got the Daily Beast, I have all these others trying to get a hold of me, I said, after I do the "Jimmy Dore Show", that's it. I just did New York One, Max Blumenthal, [DORE: Okay.] and I did KPFA, I said, "Dore is it!" That was the desert. [As usual, Credico's word was worthless. He would go on to do an interview with the Daily Beast, as well as H.A. Goodman, various Russia Today shows, "Morano in the Morning" hosted by Frank Morano, and the Intercepted podcast with Jeremy Scahill. He would cajole Chris Hayes about doing a national prime time interview, and though Hayes showed some interest, he probably decided that this self-promoting delusional egomaniac wasn't worth the trouble.] Thank you very much, and to your guests, on the show, and the side, I love the show. It will be on, on Wikileaks, as soon as it's up on youtube. I guarantee it.

DORE
Aha! Okay, Randy, thanks for taking time, thanks for all the hard work, and please come back and tell us what happens when you go in front of the intel committee-

CREDICO
I'll let you know. Please visit me in jail! Okay?

DORE
HAAAAA! [one ha, extended out] I definitely will come visit you in jail. If you go to jail for this.

CREDICO
Alright. "At long last, have you no sense of decency!" [DORE, forced laugh] See you later.

DORE
Uh, so that's Randy Credico, he's...a real inspiration. A guy who's gotten a lot of stuff really done. He doesn't just gab. He doesn't just flap people. He puts- He puts his body on the gears. He stops the machine with his body. I really have a lot of respect for Randy. And...go check out that documentary, Laura Kightlinger made of him called "Sixty Spins Around the Sun".