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  1. Monday, May 23, 2011
  2. 7:40 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: youre a fucking retard, please do not continue posting in the vanilla thread.  i am removing you from friends so i no longer have to see your name, and think, omg it's that idiot who doesn't understand there isn't a white and black side to tf2, and thus the world "should" has to be used, because we're talking about balance
  3. 7:40 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: good day
  4. 7:40 PM - ukm: lol get mad
  5. 7:41 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: well yes, i'd rather the game be played well than you come into the thread, not understanding a single thing, trying to argue based on semantics
  6. 7:42 PM - ukm: it's not semantics, i guess you really don't undersatnd the point i'm making, obviously you can type SHOULD since you need to articulate how you'd like the game to be
  7. 7:42 PM - ukm: the point is that you have to actually offere reasoning behind that
  8. 7:42 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: should is used for balance.  there is no black and white to tf2, i hope you understand.  saying this SHOULD be played this way is the equivalent of saying "this should be played this way because it will yield the most balanced outcome"
  9. 7:42 PM - ukm: the scout SHOULD die if he plays aggressive because it has X effect on the game which is beneficial for Y reason
  10. 7:42 PM - ukm: not the scout SHOULD die because lol u r so dum im invite breh
  11. 7:43 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i said that already.  scout should die because he overextended, and being able to survive something like that, when scout is the class used for picking, is imbalanced
  12. 7:43 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i literally said the invite thing one time
  13. 7:43 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: and that wasn't even close to the bulk
  14. 7:43 PM - ukm: its overextending if bonk doesnt exist
  15. 7:43 PM - ukm: which it does
  16. 7:43 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: of any part of the post
  17. 7:43 PM - ukm: and what do you mean by imbalance? you think it makes scout too good relative to the other classes on your own team?
  18. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: no shit?
  19. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: what do you think balance is?
  20. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: the classes should be balanced
  21. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: if a scout can run in
  22. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: not die
  23. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: then use that life
  24. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: to make another play
  25. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: then the class is far too powerful
  26. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i don't give a shit about scout v. scout
  27. 7:44 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: although that is another issue
  28. 7:45 PM - ukm: ok so your point is that bonk makes scout way too good compared to the other classes
  29. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: but if you can't understand that the most influential class, who has a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card, to torment anyway he wants at any given time
  30. 7:45 PM - ukm: bonk has been out for how long now? you feel that scouts run tf2?
  31. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: is not balanced
  32. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: yes?
  33. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: of course
  34. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: who do you know
  35. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: who thinks scouts don't run tf2
  36. 7:45 PM - ukm: then why did vhalin and oov win invite l0l
  37. 7:45 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: besides for the occassional really good pocket
  38. 7:46 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: (tlr)
  39. 7:46 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: scouts are extremely influential
  40. 7:46 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: why do you think complexity was good at all ever
  41. 7:46 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: their soldiers were shit all the time, besides for that one season with tlr
  42. 7:47 PM - ukm: im not saying scouts dont matter but i dont think the game is skewed in their favor and definitely dont think that bonk has created that situation even if it exists which seems not to be the case based on results
  43. 7:47 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: also, vhalin and oov used bonk ALL the time
  44. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: and when we scrimmed them
  45. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: a lot of the time it was a deciding factor, whether it was blocking ubers
  46. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: using it to survive, then come back and pick the medic
  47. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: coming*
  48. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: it's something that gives the scout an extra chance to do something
  49. 7:48 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: no other class has that, and they aren't pick classes
  50. 7:49 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: scouts try to get key picks, and it makes it much easier if they can literally double their picking attempts
  51. 7:49 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: with the use of 1 weapon that replaces a shitty weapon to begin with
  52. 7:50 PM - ukm: my perspective is basically that anything that keeps the game moving and faster paced is better, if bonk results in more scout picks aka more interesting plays i dont see that as an inherently bad thing
  53. 7:50 PM - ukm: if we were in some scenario where scouts were running the fuck out of leaderboards and never dying because of almighty bonk i would maybe care
  54. 7:50 PM - ukm: as it is its another option that lets you break stalemate situations in some cases
  55. 7:50 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: that happens all the time
  56. 7:51 PM - ukm: yea scouts can dominate, so can demo/soldier, and all 3 do at times
  57. 7:51 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i'm pretty sure yz50's entire outlook on tf2 was run in, kill a scout or soldier, then use bonk to escape
  58. 7:51 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: that's already 6v5
  59. 7:51 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: when if the bonk didn't exist
  60. 7:52 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: moving that far in to kill one thing would have led to his death too
  61. 7:52 PM - ukm: right
  62. 7:52 PM - ukm: but why is it a bad thing to have a game that rewards that aggressive play
  63. 7:52 PM - ukm: the other team can do it too
  64. 7:52 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: because the class rapes because of it
  65. 7:53 PM - ukm: thats not the most cogent of points l0l
  66. 7:54 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: scouts don't get a lot of poitns?
  67. 7:54 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: have you seen the esea stats?
  68. 7:54 PM - ukm: what
  69. 7:54 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: oh
  70. 7:54 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i thought you meant pertinent
  71. 7:54 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: to scoreboard poitns
  72. 7:54 PM - ukm: oh no
  73. 7:54 PM - ukm: i just dont know how to respond to "scout rapes because they can play aggressive"
  74. 7:54 PM - ukm: i guess my thought on that is "so?"
  75. 7:55 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i feel like playing aggressive should rely on smarts and overall skill.  i'm not saying that scouts who use the bonk are skilllless, but the cap for how good your movement and aim has to be is lowered drastically
  76. 7:55 PM - ukm: i dont see how that is the case, bonk is something that comes in after the play and is a pure survivability after-the-fact thing
  77. 7:56 PM - ukm: you have to be able to avoid damage and hit your shots the same amount to get the pick initially
  78. 7:56 PM - ukm: whether or not you have bonk
  79. 7:56 PM - ukm: assuming you're still talking the pick and run away scenario
  80. 7:58 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: sometimes, but not all the time.  you can bonk in and put yourself in a better position, or even using the bonking in to trigger a soldier on your team jumping, which definitely lightens the load on how difficult it is to get a pick as one scout.  and even if the difficulty of the initial pick was unchanged, if you fail, you probably have a 40% chance to escape using the bonk, rather than actually being punished for a poor play
  81. 7:58 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: use*
  82. 7:58 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: jesus
  83. 7:58 PM - ukm: right
  84. 7:59 PM - ukm: i guess basically what it comes down to is you really dislike the idea of someone "getting away with" what would be a bad play in vanilla tf2
  85. 7:59 PM - ukm: whereas i see that as the weapon encouraging them to make thos eaggressive plays where they otherwise wouldnt, making the game more aggressive in nature which i like
  86. 7:59 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: i mean to each his own, but i definitely feel like you shouldn't be able to get away with something like that
  87. 7:59 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: while the aggressive playing might be likie
  88. 7:59 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: a pleasant byproduct
  89. 8:00 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: it's definitely not the basis behind why a lot of people find bonk stupid
  90. 8:00 PM - ukm: oh yea i realize that, and im not saying there are 0 times when someone bonks and it doesnt seem ridiculous to me its just not clear that the weapon makes the game objectively worse, i think there are good effects and bad effects from it
  91. 8:00 PM - ukm: which to me doesnt warrant banning
  92. 8:01 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: yeah no, i mean there are definitely good effects, but i feel like the bad effects hut the game on a more siginifcant level than the good effects help the game
  93. 8:01 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: WHATEVER
  94. 8:01 PM - ukm: l0l
  96. 8:01 PM - ukm: pregame's on though so cyaaaaa
  97. 8:02 PM - eMg ~~~~~~~: bye u
  98. eMg ~~~~~~~ is now playing Natural Selection. Click here to join.
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