christ: Repeated ad hominems

DrG_
of course most of what trump offered is bullshit, but what choice did they have
Viseus
(people from Poland; not polar caps)
DrG_
christ:  thats kind of insulting of you
DrG_
christ:  many of these people elected obama
DrG_
they picked trump for a reason
DrG_
thank you bill clinton
13:15 slippy
DrG_: What do you think of AOC?
13:15 christ
DrG_ fuck obama. please don't imagine i'm a centrist or a liberal.
DrG_
clinton also gave china a most favored nation status and allowed them to join the WTO
13:16 DrG_
and people wonder why hillary is hated so much?
christ
the only people i ever hear talk about aoc or bernie sanders are rightwing folks on here.
slippy
I like AOC.
DrG_
slippy:  i think shes ridiculous but people are going to make her president
slippy
I'm a progressive/green.
slippy
DrG_: What makes AOC ridiculous?
Viseus
Neff, are there many Africans where you live? Like people who grew up in Africa
DrG_
she says dumb things
slippy
christ: This channel has a vocal, right-wing conspiracy segment.
Viseus
DrG_, Trump says dumb things too
slippy
DrG_: What are the three dumbest things she has said?
DrG_
but Im thankful she got amazon to leave NY
DrG_
Viseus:  but hes also kicking china in the balls
DrG_
trump is terrible in every way imaginable, but it doesnt matter
slippy
christ: Who do you plan to vote for POTUS in November?
Viseus
Neff, i'm sure you realized this, but dark-skinned African immigrants here don't typically go to the park to sunbathe in summer.
Viseus
lol
Viseus
What's there to defend?
slippy
Viseus: Neff is a frequent propagandist.
slippy
What moral duties does that give you when engaging them?
Viseus
You're right that most people here look very European.
Viseus
Exactly
Viseus
That's not an attack
Viseus
How do i check it?
Viseus
You mean check it as reduce it?
Viseus
Or just give it a casual glance
Viseus
Like checking my watch
slippy
Viseus: Why does the thought of you having ethical duties interest you much less than Neff's latest comment?
christ
i really like old fashioneds.
christ
i find it very easy to go out and just stop after two drink lately. that has not historically been the case.
DrG_
i spoke to a friend from australia this week and she basically said australians are terrified of china, they own australia and will soon own the world. it seems to me the entire world should get behind trumps chinese expedition, at least all of america
Viseus
slippy, i feel like you skipped a few steps now, can we go back and do this again?
13:22 christ
i think it's because of the ketamine i took recently.
christ
<Neff> Viseus: idk that's some dumb phrase SJWs use here to publicly shame people
slippy
DrG_: You have not provided examples of any dumb things AOC has said.
christ
Neff we agree 1000% on this.
DrG_
i dont care about AOC
DrG_
thats your thing
christ
You seem to imagine I'm politically correct and a social justic warrior.
Viseus
Neff: Ok. I'm very aware that i'm one of the most privileged people who have ever existed.
christ
King Viseus!
Viseus
Like, top 0.0001% most privileged
slippy
Viseus: What don't I understand?
DrG_
slippy:  do you believe she has never said a dumb thing?
slippy
DrG_: That is a non sequitur.
christ
The history of Scandinavian royal families is something I need to research.
DrG_
haha ok
Viseus
slippy, on the contrary - it is i who don't understand what you're saying.
slippy
I think she is a highly intelligent, extremely moral human being.
DrG_
oh she thinks she is
christ
Born in Pau in southern France, Bernadotte joined the French Royal Army in 1780. Following the outbreak of the French Revolution, he exhibited great military talent, rapidly rising through the ranks and was made a brigadier general by 1794. He served with distinction in Italy and Germany, and was briefly Minister of War. His relationship with Napoleon was turbulent; nevertheless, Napoleon
christ
named him a Marshal of the Empire on the proclamation of the French Empire.
13:24 christ
n 1810, Bernadotte was unexpectedly elected the heir-presumptive to the childless King Charles XIII of Sweden, thanks to the advocacy of Baron Carl Otto Mörner, a Swedish courtier and obscure member of the Riksdag of the Estates
slippy
Viseus: Neff very frequently, i.e. dozens of times per day, spreads lies that are part of the international right-wing propaganda network rooted in white nationalism.
christ
Fucking nuts. They just chose some French commoner to be king of Sweden.
slippy
Now, I posit such lies are a crime against humanity.
slippy
What, then, are your ethical duties when engaging such a person?
christ
I'm amazed that I never heard of this before.
DrG_
that itself is left wing propaganda
DrG_
irony wins
Viseus
Whoa, slippy  - that's a lot to take in at once
slippy
DrG_: I am only willing to engage one topic with you at a time.
slippy
Would you like to close the AOC topic?
christ
I don't think extremely moral human beings survive in politics, slippy.
slippy
Bernie Sanders has.
DrG_
slippy:  im not engaging with you
slippy
DrG_: I put you on ignore for 48 hours.
13:25 christ
why should i trust bernie sanders?
slippy
christ: That is a new topic.
slippy
Do you agree Bernard Sanders is "extremely moral"?
christ
slippy your point being?
christ
No.
christ
I don't have enough information to know that.
slippy
christ: My point is that one needs to employ substantial frame control with you in order to prevent you from Gish galloping.
christ
And neither, I imagine, do you.
slippy
Bernard Sanders was for LGBT equality by at least the 1980s -- way ahead of the typical American.
slippy
Bernard Sanders was marching with MLK in the 60s and putting himself in personal jeopardy for people with different skin colors.
slippy
Those are two pieces of evidence for his "extreme morality".
christ
DrG_ what party?
christ
slippy they're very weak, and circumstantial pieces of evidence.
Viseus
I believe AOC would be a vastly less corrupt politician than most. And that alone makes me willing to overlook a lot of dumb statements (which i haven't actually read yet)
slippy
christ: What are examples of direct evidence for one's moral status?
christ
someone participated in what you consider moral struggles. that doesn't mean they life a morally consistent life, or should be trusted.
Viseus
Who is philosophy?
slippy
christ: It is the current Western status quote that racial and sexual equality is part of 'correct morality'.
slippy
In regards to my two examples.
christ
you're not making sense.
fr33d0g has set topic: THUNBERG: 2020
lockie has changed mode: +t
Viseus zip lip
slippy
The current topic is 'types of direct evidence for a person's moral status'.
slippy
You'll find this level of frame control to be unpleasant.
slippy
And you'll eject shortly.
christ
You don't get to dictate what other people want to talk about, slippy. That's something most people consider unacceptable. It goes against prevailing moral norms.
slippy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frxT2qB1POQ

Viseus
Any individual's suffering and misfortune is directly proportional with their moral virtue
Viseus
RIGHT?
slippy
christ: I am talking about what you brought up.
christ
Given that are unable to follow prevailing moral norms of conversation on this channel, slippy, it seems unlikely that you are to be trusted in your value judgements pertaining to the moral qualities of people you have never met.
slippy
You claim two pieces of evidence are circumstantial, implying there is a type of direct evidence for discerning one's moral status.
slippy
I seek to better understand what that would be to evaluate your claim.
christ
Yes the best evidence of someone's character is strong personal familiarity.
Viseus
George, hand me the rifle.
slippy
I'd probably disagree with that.
christ
posty don't do that.
slippy
It might be useful to delineate between different types of moral actions, e.g. the personal and the aggregate.
christ
slippy can you please address your failure to meet the prevailing moral norms of conversation?
Viseus
What about inherited sin?
slippy
A common thing in our species, for example, is a person that is thoughtful to their family and friends, while not caring about people who are distant, either geographically or abstractly.
christ
posty don't tell me not to tell you what not to do.
christ
abstractly is the wrong word, slippy.
christ
slop trotting out your opinions. try listening to other people who are more thoughtful and informed.
Viseus
I know what my behavioral problem is.
slippy
christ: You may raise one topic with me at a time, and vice versa. My current topic is the morality topic.
slippy
Would you like to spend that on the moral norms topic?
slippy
Or you can do the word choice.
slippy
I perceive the former is more emotionally salient for you.
slippy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pROtFa6ggzM

christ
the former? again you are failing to abide by the sense-making norms we use here in the world of conversation.
Viseus
Don't teach a man to fish, feed yourself. He's a grown man, fishing's not that hard.
slippy
I love this song from Glory.
slippy
Although, their charge on Fort Wagner was foolish.
christ
slippy i find it very obnoxious that you feel you can dictate the terms under which you converse with others. it reeks of autism.
Viseus
That man probably doesn't want fish anyway.
Viseus
People are such picky eaters nowadays
lockie has changed mode: -t
slippy
christ: I'm currently mindfully pausing to allow impulsivity to decrease.
Viseus
I'm the only one here who knows what fascism is
Viseus
I'll eat the tongue of a sheep
Viseus
But i'll definitely think twice
christ
slippy that's probably a performative contradiction, but i do encourage you to slow down and be less reactive.
slippy
christ: You haven't stated which topic you would like to discuss.
Viseus
posty, i'm glad you asked. Fascism is compulsory unity. If you're not with us; you're against us. FALL IN LINE!
slippy
I will use my inference, then. I believe you care most about my expression of frame control and the possibility that violates standard community or communication norms.
christ
i don't want to talk to you, slippy. as i've stated now in several ways, the manner you try and control and frame conversations is unpleasant and asinine.
christ
it's not an inference. i directly told you this several times.
Viseus
Lutefisk is not rotten fish. You must be thinking of that Swedish fish "product".
christ
Starvation in Norway was a few generations back.
slippy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Dvg2MxQn8

Viseus
Lutefisk can be delicious.
Viseus
I do
christ
is lutefisk pickled herring or something else?
Viseus
At least once a year
slippy
christ: I agree with you that under typical norms among strangers it is generally inappropriate to consciously employ too much frame control, though some measure of frame control is part of many conversations.
christ
fr33d0g they already don't pay me enough.
Viseus
It's kinda like it i guess?
christ
the dream?
slippy
I am applying a much more deliberate frame control with you in response to your past behavior, which I found to be reasonably fallacious.
slippy
I have some of that behavior documented, if you'd like to see.
slippy
(You're not interested.)
christ
again, you're addressing me in a manner that violates the terms of polite conversation.
Viseus
Also, lutefisk is eaten with potatoes swimming in melted butter, and copious amounts of diced, fried bacon
Viseus
Yes, bacon.
slippy
christ: Your past behavior disallows typical polite conversation.
slippy
You are experiencing a consequence of past choices.
Viseus
Are you sure it's in your heart?
Viseus
you pervert
slippy
People often find consequences for their behavior to be unpleasant.
slippy
The correct goal is to reflect on whether or not the behavior was inappropriate in any regard.
slippy
If it is, then we should thank the correction and modify our behavior.
Viseus
slippy: I, on the other hand, find the consequences for my inaction to be unpleasant.
christ
slippy you're insufferable pompous and priggish and orders of magnitude less insightful or educated than you think you are.
slippy
If it is not, then we can try communicating with the would-be corrector that we stand by our choices.
slippy
Once such a difference is encountered, the fundamental choices are negotiated resolution, i.e. you celebrate on even days and I celebrate on odd days, or avoidance of the person.
christ
you are consistently engaging in ineffectual attempts to assert your intelllectual dominance and showcase your excoriating, coruscating genius.
slippy
(The other common choice among humans in such a scenario is violence.)
slippy
christ: Your posts have an excessive ad hominem quality.
christ
you lack a great deal or nous, and self-awareness. your arrogance will do much to hold back any progress you might hope to make in any field of human endeavour.
slippy
I recommend you pause to regain calm.
Viseus
Jesus christ, i've chatted way too much today. I must break loose. Good night, gentlemen!
christ
another clumsy attempt to assert superiority! don't be such a dick.
christ
goodnight Viseus. nice to chat, take care.
slippy
christ: I will take a 10 minute pause from engaging you, based off your posts.
christ
slippy why are you telling me that? what function could that possibly serve?
christ
next time, just do it. i'm not about to object. you're not depriving me of something i enjoy!
christ
i think i need to give myself permission to do nothing some days.
christ
i've been infected with the widespread virus of constantly trying to 'improve' myself.
christ
diet, exercise, meditation, yoga, nature. everything is instrumentalized in terms of its purported benefits.
christ
the only pure pleasure, or unmediated desire, i have is reading.
christ
He was here yesterday. Relax.
slippy
https://imgur.com/gallery/Gp1YXj5

slippy
This is pretty amusing.
Belbo
i just picked a winner
Belbo
pinky
Belbo
i wonder if i can replace the diaphragm in this broken pump and fix it on the cheap
slippy
10 minutes have elapsed.
slippy
christ: I don't think you responded to the substance of my response to your one topic: To what extent is it or can it be just to exercise more substantial than baseline conversational structure?
slippy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gus4dnQuiGk

slippy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QaorPp8BNU

slippy
This song is exceptionally serene.