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ETC ASIC Discussion in #mining on Discord

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Apr 20th, 2018
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  1. [4:05 PM] anthony: https://github.com/ethereumproject/ECIPs/pull/91
  2. [4:05 PM] anthony: ^Would love some input from miners on the effects of lowering the DAG size(edited)
  3. [8:37 PM] D34D: The goal is to lower the barrier to new miners and serves as a countermeasure to the risk of an even bigger centralization of hash, if I got it right.
  4. That said, I think it will have undesired consequences like also lower the barrier for fpga boards overcharged with smaller memories, and likely the yield for older GPUs which are power hungry will not be enough to make it profitable for them
  5. [8:39 PM] D34D: Most likely I'm wrong but my gut tells me that it's highly unpredictable how it would benefit the decentralization of the network
  6. [8:40 PM] D34D: Would love to hear Ninja's take on it
  7. [9:43 PM] Epool.io: @D34D Unpopular or not, I'm in the asics resistance camp. Reduce dag, sure no problem with that. We really inherited that huge dag, or rather they inherited ours. I'm for a concerted effort to remain asic resistant though I leave the debate to miners. Only they have the power, with their hash, or what % remains, to push the chain in the direction.
  8. 💯1
  9. [9:47 PM] Epool.io: I do think there is a high probably that ETC doesn't remain ASIC resistant while some other chains do. The value, level of centralization, is remained to be seen.
  10. [9:52 PM] D34D: I get where you're coming from but maybe reducing the dag could actually just make it easier for asic producers to build a bunch of specialized miners? Seems to me that the only thing stopping (or slowing) them now is the high cost of implementing the powerful memory boards
  11. [9:54 PM] D34D: Personally me and every other 'normal' miners will benefit for a asic resistance strategy as it will 'protect' us from becoming obsolete
  12. 💯1
  13. [9:55 PM] D34D: But the suggested countermeasure seems to have highly unpredictable results
  14. [9:55 PM] bakon: @D34D I think that lowering the dag will definitely incentivize other companies or your hobbyist DIYI builder to make a or desin an ASIC
  15. [9:55 PM] D34D: Thus not really being the solution to stop asic makers from making us obsolete
  16. 💯1
  17. [9:56 PM] bakon: Which is part of the point I think actually.
  18. 💯1
  19. [9:56 PM] bakon: But when that happens, then the issue of centrilized AISC miners is nto an issue
  20. [9:56 PM] bakon: if anyone can build one them selves, especially if community members come together to create a Open source type ASIC miner
  21. [9:57 PM] D34D: That sounds good in theory but has anyone made the real calculation of how profitable would it 'right now's to mine with an older 1gb you?
  22. [9:57 PM] D34D: Because if it's not profitable, then no hobbyist will actually take it
  23. [9:57 PM] bakon: I've done some calculations with a good friend of mine, but ti's hard to tell with out actually being able to take card and mine on a current chain
  24. [9:57 PM] bakon: to see how it really does with current block time and difficulty
  25. [9:57 PM] D34D: And it's not going to be hobbyists hash power that will complete and contribute for a net hash decentralization
  26. [9:58 PM] D34D: Exactly
  27. [9:58 PM] D34D: Highly unpredictable
  28. [9:58 PM] bakon: You would be surprised what community memebrs can come up with given the ability to
  29. [9:58 PM] D34D: I'm betting that it actually will make it easier for asics to swamp the network
  30. [9:58 PM] bakon: Especially ones that feel so strongly about ASICs
  31. [9:58 PM] bakon: and sticking it to the man ;p
  32. [9:59 PM] bakon: This also gives companies like AMD and nvidida incentive to go ahead and produce asic type cards as well, knowing they don't have to pour ton of money in newest technology for anther SKU item.
  33. [10:00 PM] D34D: I think I've made my point, it's not up to me anymore. Luckily I've hit ROI for my farm long ago so financially im not worried at all, I just think lowering the dag will have unwanted consequences
  34. [10:00 PM] bakon: Don't quote me 100% on any of this, cause it's like with anyelse
  35. [10:00 PM] bakon: you can't 100% predict it especially with something as crazy as crypto.
  36. [10:00 PM] bakon: But so far it's the best solutions I've come accross
  37. [10:01 PM] D34D: If the results are unpredictable, then it's not a solution, it's a bet
  38. [10:01 PM] D34D: It's a gamble
  39. [10:01 PM] bakon: Then if it's jsut as easy to lwoer the dag
  40. [10:01 PM] bakon: it should be jsut as easy to bring it back up right
  41. [10:01 PM] bakon: :p
  42. [10:01 PM] D34D: Thats the whole point
  43. [10:01 PM] bakon: jsut make another ECIP
  44. [10:01 PM] bakon: :smile:
  45. [10:01 PM] D34D: I'm all in for a real solution
  46. [10:02 PM] D34D: I give alot of merit to Cody proposal but no one can actually guarantee that it will meet it's goal
  47. [10:02 PM] D34D: And that's my point
  48. [10:02 PM] Epool.io: before asics have the controlling share. or do they already?
  49. [10:02 PM] D34D: Just that :)
  50. [10:02 PM] D34D: Of course they do already
  51. [10:02 PM] D34D: For months
  52. [10:03 PM] D34D: Anyone watching the networks hash the past months knows something was going on
  53. [10:03 PM] Epool.io: all ye enter here  :fearful:
  54. [10:03 PM] D34D: We've been talking about eth asics since  October
  55. [10:04 PM] D34D: Gotta go to sleep for 2 more hours until my newborn son needs feeding and diapers again
  56. [10:04 PM] D34D: TTYL
  57. [10:05 PM] Epool.io: later
  58. [10:05 PM] bakon: Take care man :smiley:
  59. [10:06 PM] Epool.io: you still have devs and exchanges.  but what mines the network may be of little consequence to them
  60. [10:14 PM] Epool.io: https://cointelegraph.com/news/monero-devs-follow-through-on-threats-to-upgrade-algorithm-to-maintain-asic-resistance
  61. [10:15 PM] Epool.io: Haven't seen much chatter of that regard here
  62. [10:18 PM] bakon: I like monero, and I'm actually in full support of their decision.
  63. 👍1
  64. [10:19 PM] Epool.io: they have a specific use case. highjacking peoples browsers.. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
  65. [10:19 PM] bakon: Hahahaha
  66. [10:19 PM] bakon: Securely :p
  67. [10:22 PM] Epool.io: ETC might just go the route of BTC.. CLO hybrid,  ETH POS
  68. [10:23 PM] Epool.io: ponders if CLO will remain resistant. I believe they are a little more flexible to do so.
  69. [10:24 PM] bakon: All we gotta do is keep ETC at $16usd and we don't have anything* to worry about no ASIC. Hahaha(edited)
  70. [10:26 PM] Epool.io: I've been mentally prepared for ETH to POS, but they are way behind schedule.
  71. [10:28 PM] bakon: Is there any chain currently that has a good PoS system running on Mainnet?
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