eOut12/10/2020
dave is allowed to retain the trades that were made before week 1, but that's it
I don't know the full reasoning for prohibiting other trades to be retained
but I suspect it had something to do with historically unbalanced trades
that were made by teams out of contention
Tony12/10/2020
and also from before retains were exponentially more expensive
plus if you just go by auction price for the retain
it shouldn't matter for which team the retain goes
all 10 teams had the chance to bid more during the auction either way, right?
what's the difference?
unless i'm missing something i don't think there's any harm
eOut12/10/2020
given that we have imposed a ban on retention trading
permitting trades to be retained strikes me as a loophole
Tony12/10/2020
i don't think so, because retain trading specifically intended to the dodge the auction prices
like how i traded for abr in spl 9
via retain trading
if a player gets bought by a team for a certain price
then gets traded to another team
they still get retained for last year's auction price + 3k the next year
the price isn't lower
the auction isn't dodged
that's the difference
i can't sneak 10k off of someone's price this way
because the player is still going to auction prior to being traded
eOut12/10/2020
that's the same thing though
Tony12/10/2020
the same managers bid on the player
eOut12/10/2020
take the abr case as an example
you could perform the same trade you did in the spl pre-season during the actual spl season
just in advance
Tony12/10/2020
no but you can't trade a retained player until mid-season
and instead of trading 2k for someone's retention rights
you'd have to offer up equal value
right?
how is it the same?
to use the example i'm messaging about as an example
i traded for 1 true lycan
last season
at mids
all 10 teams were able to bid on 1 true lycan during the auction last year
the tigers won that auction
and then traded his 'contract' to us, allowing us to line him up for the remainder of the season
shouldn't i then be able to retain all of the 'contracts' that i gathered that season of spl?
where is the abuse?
if the trade to get a player is lopsided it gets vetod
and it's still auction price + 3k
how am i abusing a loophole by retaining 1 true lycan, hypothetically?
eOut12/10/2020
we eliminated pre-season retain trades; when you exit spl, the assumption is that your available retains are those people you purchased during the auction
if trades are added
then that changes everything; that is the only way you can get retains for next season that weren't originally on your team
and I believe that if every manager were playing with that assumption in mind, midseason would look a lot different for teams that are out of contention
that is what I mean by a loophole; permitting trades to be retained introduces something that was previously assumed impossible under the current ruleset
Tony12/10/2020
so you're worried about teams giving up at mids
and making trades looking at  next season
trying to attain potential retains
at the cost of valuable starting pieces
i'm not even sure if i'd consider that a negative
that happens in the nba too for example
and could add to the identify/franchise feeling
it's a fair point though
eOut12/10/2020
it's not inherently a negative, but if we consider it a viable strategy, the community should be aware that we are designing our infrastructure to support it
this is something I've thought about wrt to the neo-snake discussion as well
and ideas such as teal's
establishing cross-tournament continuity is enticing, but if 8 teams are playing to win the season and only 2 teams are playing for the longterm, is that really a good thing?
Tony12/10/2020
right
but for this upcoming spl
could we apply for an exception like ima's? i know 1 true lycan wasn't traded before week 1 like ima, but there's similarly no abuse and both teams still tried to win as many games as possible at the time of the trade
1 true lycan also played 5 games for the wolfpack
mncmt, a ruiners retain, played 3 games for his team last season
it just seems genuinely harmless to me and i clearly wasn't trying to loophole with the tigers
just as ima and the tyrants/bigs
eOut12/10/2020
I wouldn't personally grant one. but exceptions fall under the hosts' purview, so I am gonna throw you over to perry