Alivi: Andddd sup Soulless ?
[3:29pm] AgentFlowers: this is a society where men are valued for their brute strength alone
[3:29pm] Soulless: AgentFlowers Alivi we were discussing a method to give research and others "moments of glory" so to speak
[3:29pm] • Snowshoe appears
[3:29pm] AgentFlowers: To be considered strong enough to be added to the wall is supposed to be considered an honour
[3:29pm] Alivi: Its a careful balance but it is something we wanna like..
[3:29pm] Alivi: balance it
[3:31pm] Snowshoe: something to possibly give research characters the equivalent of taggart's blowing up shit with a giant laser
[3:31pm] Soulless: ^
[3:31pm] AgentFlowers: Kind of like what we did with the T Rex?
[3:31pm] Alivi: well it shouldnt be just research
[3:31pm] Alivi: it needs to be everyone
[3:32pm] Soulless: But when it comes to run it /isn't/ everyone'
[3:32pm] Snowshoe: kind of like that, but without ending it with shooting the giant dinosaur
[3:32pm] Soulless: *to runs it isn't
[3:32pm] AgentFlowers: I think that could be accomplished by doing what Pres did, and allowing the characters a little extra time to MacGuyver something
[3:32pm] Alivi: Well yea.
[3:33pm] Alivi: thing is we dont wanna set up runs for specific character
[3:33pm] AgentFlowers: That thing with the electrified net was ingenious
[3:33pm] Soulless: Players have apparently been meh on the RP just because they feel their char is useless
[3:33pm] Alivi: we can do things that provides arcs and whatnot to help out.
[3:33pm] Alivi: Well which characters have the complaints been from?
[3:33pm] Soulless: And ultimately their char can be pretty damn useless when their field isn't being explored the same way combat-based shit is
[3:33pm] Alivi: yea.
[3:34pm] Alivi: I agree which is why I am happy PRP allow people to bring things back to research
[3:34pm] Alivi: it gives researchers things to do.
[3:34pm] Alivi: Arthur and Loren have something with the Maker as well
[3:34pm] Soulless: Yes what we are suggesting is have more tings like that, and give that more significane
[3:34pm] Alivi: well yea!
[3:34pm] Soulless: It'll give players things to do, even on "soft rp" time
[3:34pm] Alivi: i think pres is working on something similar.
[3:34pm] Alivi: right?
[3:34pm] Alivi: Well Soft Rp is where Eriko gets most of her sciency stuff done anyways
[3:35pm] Soulless: For example, were you guys here when they brought the plant-girl back? Surgery and shit happened, and I think people were awarded XP for all of that
[3:35pm] Alivi: I have an incident that is fantastic for mantianence people
[3:35pm] Alivi: Basically the power goes out.
[3:35pm] Soulless: for both huge mess ups that required security intervention and other things
[3:35pm] Alivi: they need to restore it and meanwhile people need to hold off anything not having power will do.
[3:36pm] Alivi:  What we are gonna have to do is create opportuniuties for the Characters to hold onto.\
[3:36pm] AgentFlowers: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman
[3:36pm] Alivi: Players need to take the chance to do things. But we as GMs need to supply the opportunities.
[3:36pm] Soulless: Yes, so Snowshoe and I were discussing different ways we can do incidents and runs
[3:36pm] Alivi: Yea.
[3:37pm] Alivi: I think Pres mentioned it with his non-gated approch
[3:37pm] Soulless: in such a manner that it gives, say, espionage? something they actually need to espionage
[3:37pm] AgentFlowers: We want to avoid that trope
[3:37pm] AgentFlowers: that is a BAD trope
[3:37pm] Alivi: We need to avoid that trope
[3:37pm] Alivi: it feeds Special Snowflakes
[3:37pm] Soulless: AgentFlowers: This isn't one extreme to the other
[3:37pm] Alivi: BSAA had an issue with that.
[3:37pm] Alivi: I agree tho
[3:37pm] Alivi: But Soulless
[3:37pm] Alivi: I think that it is a 1/2 thing
[3:37pm] Alivi: does that make sense
[3:37pm] Soulless: This is just recognizing that the RP is extremely combat based and giving it a bigger opportunity to be less so
[3:37pm] Alivi: we need to do our part. But the players need to as well. But I am sure they will.
[3:38pm] Alivi: Well its been Combat based...
[3:38pm] AgentFlowers: Yeah, this is just a general caution to avoid getting too Aquamany
[3:38pm] Soulless: By giving a greater variety of things to /do/
[3:38pm] Alivi: Wilt used to keep a strong hold on everything MAKING it combat based
[3:38pm] Soulless: AgentFlowers:  Again, we're not jumping from one extreme to the other
[3:38pm] Alivi: and making it ridiculously hard to not do combat based.
[3:38pm] Soulless: Alivi:  And now we can change that is what we are suggesting
[3:38pm] Alivi: Also Aquaman is AWESOME
[3:38pm] Alivi: Well like I said Pres had an idea he is writing up.
[3:38pm] Alivi: On how GMs construct runs
[3:38pm] AgentFlowers: I know, I know, it's just a caution. Change up the runs, but be careful how you write them.
[3:39pm] Alivi: We cant be like
[3:39pm] Alivi: OH you NEED
[3:39pm] Snowshoe: As I see it, the issue right now isn't that the players aren't taking advantage of opportunities. It's that we're not giving them opportunities, or that the ones they're getting aren't interesting enough to explore.
[3:39pm] Alivi: sso and so there
[3:39pm] Alivi: I agree
[3:39pm] Alivi: Well take like tonight for example
[3:39pm] Alivi: Loren will be useful on the run
[3:39pm] Alivi: should she take the paths she can
[3:39pm] Soulless: I don't think th GM's need pokes on how to construct runs
[3:39pm] Soulless: We're all here because we construct badass runs
[3:39pm] Alivi: Well yea.
[3:40pm] Soulless: What we're saying is that we can use our badass run construction skills on something other than traditional run formats
[3:40pm] Alivi: What is tradiotional run format tho?
[3:40pm] Soulless: Run in, killy things
[3:40pm] Alivi: So far most of my run formats havent been really
[3:40pm] Soulless: or, ultimately, killy things
[3:40pm] Alivi: I mean they took a hostage in one.
[3:40pm] Alivi: And now we have a skip in containment for espoinage to interveiw and research/mantiance to play with
[3:41pm] AgentFlowers: Even the greatest artists have their shames
[3:41pm] Alivi: one of my first lessons wasnt to end in killing things unless we had to. That is why things like puzzles and academics things. You know?
[3:41pm] Alivi: Ive been playing with a couple ideas.
[3:41pm] Alivi: and yea we will probably always have things.
[3:41pm] Snowshoe: I think, unless we give them a compelling reason to experiment with things, it's not an interesting opportunity for them to explore.
[3:41pm] Soulless: ^
[3:41pm] AgentFlowers: We all need criticism. Keeps us humble
[3:41pm] Alivi: its their job.
[3:42pm] Snowshoe: People don't RP to have a second job.
[3:42pm] Alivi: i know.
[3:42pm] AgentFlowers: She means, it's their responsibility to a certain degree.
[3:42pm] Alivi: We cant force them to do anything
[3:42pm] Alivi: but it doesnt mean we need to cater to everyone
[3:42pm] Alivi: and give everyone special snowflake time.
[3:42pm] Soulless: We can give them compelling reasons to research, we can give them serious investigative things
[3:43pm] Alivi: And we have started doing so
[3:43pm] Soulless: We're not giving people special snowflake time
[3:43pm] Soulless: This isn't one extreme to the other
[3:43pm] AgentFlowers: Yes, Soulless, we heard you the first three times.
[3:43pm] Alivi: I know. And I am not saying it is. I am just saying that we are already moving in the right direction in my opinion
[3:43pm] Soulless: AgentFlowers:  And yet you two continue to worry that we are going from one extreme to the other
[3:44pm] Alivi: Im not....worried.
[3:44pm] AgentFlowers: Neither am I
[3:44pm] AgentFlowers: I think we're miscommunicating somewhere
[3:44pm] Snowshoe: You do continue to bring up special snowflake time.
[3:44pm] Snowshoe: Which implies that concern.
[3:44pm] Alivi: im just confused as to why you are so insistant that it hasnt been happening when I think we are on the right path.
[3:44pm] Alivi: I given you examples where we are ready and have things stored up for it.
[3:44pm] Alivi: But you arent telling me what you want.
[3:45pm] Alivi: just, it isnt good enough. And people hate the rp
[3:45pm] AgentFlowers: We are gradually working in more and more alternative routes. It's not going to happen overnight.
[3:45pm] Alivi: Thereis also the matter of not everything can happen on a run.
[3:45pm] Snowshoe: I think this is a suggestion that, rather than focusing on making runs not combat focused, we introduce /separate/ opportunities for people to research things.
[3:45pm] Alivi: Some people's jobs will be more on the other side of the pool than the other.
[3:45pm] AgentFlowers: People got used to one way of doing things, as well, and breaking a habit takes /practice/.
[3:46pm] Alivi: But that is the thing Snowshoe
[3:46pm] Soulless: Yes, that is what Snowshoe says
[3:46pm] Alivi: We have been doing it
[3:46pm] Alivi: or at least I have.
[3:46pm] AgentFlowers: We have several things in containment right now, that the players aren't interacting with.
[3:46pm] Snowshoe: I haven't seen GMd research in soft RP aside from you and I with prefab 12, and possibly counting arthur and his arm.
[3:46pm] Alivi: Look at the active Players list
[3:46pm] AgentFlowers: The bunnies, the guy we pulled out of prefab 12, the master,
[3:46pm] Alivi: and who are research
[3:47pm] Alivi: Arthur and Eriko are the only active ones
[3:47pm] Alivi: Espionage we can work on doing internal investigation, psych evals, and employee reports.
[3:47pm] AgentFlowers: Basically it sounds a little like you two are reinventing the wheel a bit here.
[3:47pm] Alivi: As well as Skip and containment interveiws and interveiws after incidents
[3:47pm] Snowshoe: Maintenance and medical are both other departments that aren't combat focused at all, and none of them have gotten anything.
[3:47pm] Alivi: Medical tends to get thin-
[3:48pm] Alivi: I AM GETTING THERE
[3:48pm] Soulless: Alivi:  But has any of that been done, really?
[3:48pm] Alivi: Medical tends to get things on runs for field medications and then after the fact.
[3:48pm] Alivi: Not yet.
[3:48pm] Alivi: But what I am saying is
[3:48pm] Alivi: we are working on it
[3:48pm] Alivi: we talked about a crafting system
[3:48pm] Soulless: We are suggesting that we brainstorm things to do so, then
[3:48pm] Alivi: and I am throwing out ideas
[3:49pm] Snowshoe: It's an issue that plagues everything we decide to do in this channel. We decide to do it, we write something up on the GM wiki, and then it hovers in limbo between the main wiki and the GM wiki for months.
[3:49pm] Alivi: if you look at my incident and run pool it is invited for everyone to do so and write on it.
[3:49pm] Alivi: THis isnt something that is being ignored tho!
[3:49pm] Alivi: Ive been implementing things
[3:49pm] Alivi: So has Roget
[3:49pm] Alivi: Pres has ideas everyone does.
[3:49pm] AgentFlowers: We have literally been doing nothing but look for ways to make this better.
[3:49pm] Alivi: Its going to take a while to do a crafting system
[3:50pm] Snowshoe: If anything has been implemented, I have, to be blunt, noticed no change.
[3:50pm] Soulless: If I may, I don't believe a crafting system is necessary
[3:50pm] Alivi: It was a suggestion to give mantiance people something
[3:50pm] • Alivi shrugs
[3:50pm] Alivi: i mean
[3:50pm] AgentFlowers: BECAUSE YOU ARE CURRENTLY TALKING TO THREE CONTRIBUTORS, NOT ADMINS.
[3:50pm] • Alivi sighs.
[3:50pm] Soulless: I don't believe getting angry is the appropriate response here flowers
[3:50pm] Alivi: Soulless:
[3:51pm] Alivi: please Understand why we are frusterated
[3:51pm] AgentFlowers: My grandfather died, I had to leave work early, and now I have to deal with Snowshoe again. I'm frustrated as fuck.
[3:51pm] Alivi: AgentFlowers:
[3:51pm] Soulless: AgentFlowers:  If you need to step out then place do
[3:51pm] Alivi: back down for a bit
[3:51pm] Alivi: and breathe
[3:51pm] Soulless: This is not an obligation for you, if shit is happening on your end, go address it
[3:52pm] Alivi: Its a bit frusterating because I am just saying we are working on it
[3:52pm] Alivi: And Snowshoe you seem to just not even be listening or caring.
[3:53pm] Soulless: And I am saying we don't need to "work" on it, we can just "do" and I believe the playerbase will follow
[3:53pm] Alivi: But that is the thingggg
[3:53pm] Alivi: I am saying I personally AM
[3:53pm] Soulless: We have the resources and the ability to do exactly that
[3:53pm] Alivi: trying to make it so
[3:53pm] Alivi: And other GMs have been too
[3:53pm] Alivi: and saying that we haven't is frankly insulting
[3:53pm] Snowshoe: Alivi: I'm fine with "We're working on it", but I'm seeing repeated references to things that have already been done that I haven't noticed
[3:54pm] Alivi: like what/
[3:54pm] Snowshoe: <Alivi> Ive been implementing things <Alivi> So has Roget
[3:54pm] Alivi: roget started doing espionage interveiws after the incident
[3:54pm] AgentFlowers: Give specific examples Snowshoe.
[3:54pm] Alivi: I have the thing with the Maker and am stocking up runs and incidents with good moments (LIKE THE RUN TONIGHT)
[3:55pm] Alivi: for people like Loren to use her skills in talking to panicked people
[3:55pm] Alivi: YES
[3:55pm] Alivi: the run is combat based because of the setting
[3:55pm] Alivi: but there is other chances for things to happen based off what she choses to do not to mention her melee score like flowers brought up before
[3:55pm] Alivi: There is the specific indicents and things Ive been telling you ive been brainstorming on
[3:55pm] Alivi: there is ones ALREADY WRITTEN UP
[3:56pm] AgentFlowers: I will give one for you, which was actually right when you came in
[3:56pm] AgentFlowers: 14:44	AgentFlowers	Gara's face when Loren actually has a chance of being awesome tonight? 14:44	Alivi	haha 14:44	Alivi	Yea 14:45	Alivi	I actually have some things where interpersonal relations between them and the NPCs could REALLY help 14:49	AgentFlowers	Not only that, but the fact that everyone has to compete for weapons, and she has the highest melee 14:51
[3:56pm] Alivi: The power goes out site-wide and the team is needed to try and restore the power before the generators fail resulting in everything goes haywire. <- From my incident Pool!
[3:57pm] Alivi: Mantiance and researchers who are well-versed in containment specialization
[3:57pm] Alivi: or building things to contain
[3:57pm] Snowshoe: Yes, I've seen that. That's one thing that might happen for gara's character on this run, though, not a soft RP thing that lasts a while and eventually culminates in a fulfilling conclusion for the non-combat characters involved.
[3:57pm] Alivi: The Poolboys are called out to another site to help contain various SCPs before they surround and attack the nearby town after a scientist commits suicide after releasing the skips.
[3:57pm] Alivi: Based off the 2011 Zanesville Ohio Animal Massacre. Likely it will be a dangerous mission with many various animal skips (Most Elucid/Safe)
[3:57pm] Snowshoe: I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying it's not what I'm talking about.
[3:57pm] Alivi: But Snowshoe
[3:57pm] Alivi: THAT IS THE THING
[3:57pm] Alivi: We have things like the Maker and them restoring things and doing incidents,
[3:58pm] Alivi: doing long term things like that takes a while and a lot of planning and correlation and we can't just half-ass it
[3:58pm] AgentFlowers: Then we don't know what you want. We are DOING everything you've mentioned, so obviously you aren't communicating what it is you're looking for.
[3:58pm] Snowshoe: <Snowshoe> As I see it, the issue right now isn't that the players aren't taking advantage of opportunities. It's that we're not giving them opportunities, or that the ones they're getting aren't interesting enough to explore.
[3:58pm] Soulless: ^
[3:59pm] AgentFlowers: But we ARE giving them opportunities.
[3:59pm] AgentFlowers: Containment is RIGHT THERE.
[3:59pm] Alivi: Not only that
[3:59pm] Alivi: so is the armoury
[3:59pm] Alivi: so is the labs
[3:59pm] Alivi: mantiance
[3:59pm] Alivi: hell
[3:59pm] Snowshoe: Then why is nobody taking advantage of them? Are they just not interested in roleplaying? Are the things themselves not interesting? Is there something else?
[3:59pm] Alivi: For the Containment thing I am doin
[3:59pm] Alivi: it is a timing issue
[4:00pm] AgentFlowers: If lurkd wanted to Elif could start rolling Engineering right now to trick out a humvee for incidents
[4:00pm] Alivi: Gara is interested and so is Woggle.
[4:00pm] AgentFlowers: lower that bitch and paint flames on the side.
[4:01pm] Alivi: There is a balance to be struck.
[4:01pm] Alivi: I can start working on the espionage thing
[4:01pm] Alivi: The medical thing weve mentioned but sure I can go over it again
[4:01pm] Alivi: And I can also draft out the mantiance thing
[4:01pm] Snowshoe: I don't think we could fall too far on the wrong side of giving people things to do. Worst-case, they have a lot to do and still aren't interested.
[4:01pm] Alivi: Thats a bad thing tho
[4:02pm] Alivi: because then we are violating something you've SAID
[4:02pm] Alivi: we arent doing
[4:02pm] Alivi: We give them lots to do and they still arent interested. Well FUCK me
[4:02pm] Alivi: i must be a shit GM then ain't I?
[4:02pm] Snowshoe: No, if that happens then we know that the majority of people aren't interested in soft RPing research.