[00:26:35] <Holden_EX3> Fun fact: we weren't paid for developing any material that didn't make it to the final version of the book
[00:26:44] <Holden_EX3> (EX3 used a per-word developer rate)
[00:27:06] <Holden_EX3> anyone want to make a wager on whether I see anything for the cut material I originally developed? X)
[00:27:45] <Holden_EX3> yeah, me either
[00:28:27] <Mobius> Is that an industry norm?
[00:28:41] <Serah> That sounds silly.
[00:29:18] <KJ> I'm not sure there's an industry norm for having material, cutting it, switching developers and then reusing it
[00:29:47] <Mobius> Man, I seriously hope they aren't that audacious.
[00:47:30] <Holden_EX3> firing someone and stealing their work is not the industry norm, no
[00:47:49] <KJ> I'm not entirely certain what the right call would be. I guess just pay out for the used cut material twice, once to Holden for originally developing it and then once for Vance and Minton for changing up whatever they need to and printing it?
[00:47:49] <KJ> idk
[00:48:15] <KJ> <- Not a businessman
[00:49:33] <Mobius> I'd hope Eric and Vance have enough integrity that they won't be party to that.
[00:49:36] <Serah> Well either you pay for the words that make it into print, which is a bit iffy. Or you pay for the developer's time, in which case you get to recycle cut material since you already paid for it.
[00:49:52] <Serah> Not paying for the words that don't make it into print, and then printing them later seems iffy as you said.
[00:49:52] <Holden_EX3> except you didn't
[00:49:54] <Odd_Canuck> Writing in general tends to suck as far as pay for labour goes.
[00:50:00] <Holden_EX3> as we were explicitly not paid for that
[00:50:20] <Holden_EX3> i mean, it's not the first time they've pulled this shit
[00:50:28] <Holden_EX3> nobody got paid a dime for the Broken-Winged Crane
[00:50:42] <KJ> Fuck
[00:50:45] <KJ> I forgot about that
[00:50:46] <Holden_EX3> as it was theoretically "just" a compilation of cut material from Infernals that CCP already owned
[00:51:01] <MorkaisChosen> that's a fucking sleight of hand >_>
[00:51:10] <Holden_EX3> of course in reality it was about 10K words of cut material and 15K of original stuff written just for the BWC
[00:51:10] <Serah> If they didn't pay for it, how can they own it? Does it not belong to the developers?
[00:51:23] <KJ> Serah: Almost certainlhy not
[00:51:38] <Odd_Canuck> there's a good chance that argument would at least be heard in court.
[00:52:23] <Mobius> Serah: Depends what the contract with the writers is like.
[00:52:43] <Odd_Canuck> all ya have to do is have a wronged party, aka the writers that get paid shit, front large sums of money to take it to court on the chance that it pays out a couple or three orders of magnitude less than the legal costs.
[00:52:49] <Mobius> It seems pretty clear that they're generally pretty one-sided. -_-
[00:52:55] <Holden_EX3> in reality, I'm not inclined to make much of a stink about it, since Minton and Vance did like 95% of the antagonists/beasts stuff basically with few directives other than "write cool antagonists"
[00:53:05] <Holden_EX3> and the stuff required very little developing
[00:53:26] <KJ> I'm confused, did the writers get paid for the cut material and the developers got stiffed, or did everybody get stiffed?
[00:53:34] <KJ> For this cut material
[00:53:40] <Holden_EX3> everyone
[00:53:40] <GSD> I doubt anyone got paid for cut material
[00:53:43] <KJ> Goddamn
[00:53:54] <GSD> I'd assume that is always the case
[00:53:56] <Odd_Canuck> cut material is a freebie.
[00:54:00] <Holden_EX3> on the other hand
[00:54:14] <Holden_EX3> john wrote a 40,000 word outline for Realm and DBs and I'm betting the upcoming books are based on it
[00:54:29] <Holden_EX3> thaaaaaaat... is going to be a little harder to live with, if it happens to be the case
[00:54:42] <GSD> do you get paid for outlines?
[00:54:46] <Holden_EX3> haha no
[00:54:53] <GSD> that was my assumption
[00:54:55] <Odd_Canuck> and the rest of the developers bible...  which afaik ya'all didn't get compensated for either, only the core book work.
[00:55:00] <Holden_EX3> right
[00:55:11] <Holden_EX3> developers are paid by the book and by the wordcount in said boo
[00:55:15] <Holden_EX3> book*