5:58:04 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: Just being more logical then emotionally attached
5:58:22 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: lately I find myself being more and more drawn to the world
5:58:27 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: and less and less attached to it
5:59:29 AM Chris Groves: But what's the objective?
5:59:47 AM Chris Groves:  If there's no objective, there's no logic, what's the end goal here?
6:02:07 AM Chris Groves: Just to be sure we're on the same page in the ol' book of logic here,
6:02:14 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: one sec
6:02:19 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: I got a wenching mother
6:03:59 AM Chris Groves: Logic requires a procession between co-relational states, concurrent, synchronous, or asynchronously. Meaning, states are related as properties or objects over time, space and consciousness. Consciousness is inherently a distinct property, rather than a subset of space or time (beware of Ryle's category mistake). This is because it is the nature of the mind to
6:05:20 AM Chris Groves: A) perceive a difference between states, which means either a difference in the same time frame (between different elements of spacetime, semantic, ontological or otherwise), for example, the difference between "logical," "illogical" and "alogical" are property-states, and therefore objects in an object-relational matrix.
6:05:53 AM Chris Groves: That object-relational matrix, while often computed spatially (a graph is a 2D example, an information graphic is a 3D example, and the content of our minds ranges from 1D to 10D+)
6:07:30 AM Chris Groves: THe other perceived difference between states is that of time (perception of progress and process, the stuff that seems static to us - walls - we now know is actually vibrating particles. Particles, which, relative to their size, move at extreme velocities. This is the cornerstone of relativity theory actually, the relativity of all speeds to that of the speed of light.
6:09:12 AM Chris Groves: This, along with both topographical mathematics, and more concrete but still theoretical physics, now paints a picture of all complex systems proceeding from one another. Computation to physics to chemistry to geology to biology to ecology to language to philosophy to logic to mathematics to computation
6:09:19 AM Chris Groves: computation being synonymous with consciousness
6:10:24 AM Chris Groves: In that a computational model of conscious is, by default, the only logical solution to a theory of consciousness, which allows therefore a unified field theory to describe all relations of matter, energy, time, space and consciousness, from the cosmic quantities to the conscious, biological qualities and qualia.
6:11:35 AM Chris Groves: It is, by default, the [only] logical theory, because in order for something to be logical, it must be described through a logical matrix. That logical matrix is the relationship of objects with one another through certain types of interactions.
6:11:52 AM Chris Groves: Much like how the universe is organized by particles or wavefunctions interacting with one another through various types of interactions.
6:12:24 AM Chris Groves: At various levels, from quarks and leptons to bosons to neutrinos to protons to antiparticles and so on and so forth.
6:13:14 AM Chris Groves: In order for something to be described logically, a computation has been therefore been performed on a calculation.
6:14:25 AM Chris Groves: The base states are all existing computation, a sequence of state-processes. The transformation and dimensional reduction of states of one type to states of another type. Hence space-time, the noumenal (the actual world, all extant states of matter and energy)
6:14:41 AM Chris Groves: being filtered into the phenomenon (states of matter and energy as reported by the sense organs)
6:14:54 AM Chris Groves: into the perceptual (sense organ data filtered for relevance by the ego)
6:15:31 AM Chris Groves: Which is simply a survival mechanism necessary for the operation of the senses in a primitive environment we have since outgrown the need for.
6:17:36 AM Chris Groves: Anyway, point of A) is: logic is the relation of objects with one another in a specific sequence, forming strings. These strings are orders of operations, which converge on a single solution, a single objective. All logical systems, in order to be logical, must be connected from beginning to end. Any break therefore means the introduction of illogic, and therefore erroneous calculation.
6:19:54 AM Chris Groves: This relation is perceived as the difference between objects, either in their mental qualities (attractive, repulsive, right,wrong, black, white, grey, colors of the spectrum, etc.), objects in space (relative to the observer), objects over time (relative to the observer)
6:20:15 AM Chris Groves: That is to say, there is an illusion that we are perceiving states (the static)
6:20:29 AM Chris Groves: Whereas we are actually perceiving only changes (the dynamic)
6:20:42 AM Chris Groves: Not the underlying matrix upon which changes are performed as permutations
6:21:42 AM Chris Groves: B) because logic requires an objective, without which there can be no coherency in relations, or relevance in objects selected for observing relations
6:22:27 AM Chris Groves: Because the objective determines the algorithm of selection and the determination of relations
6:22:43 AM Chris Groves: That is what programming is.
6:23:17 AM Chris Groves: Therefore, the question must be asked; what is the end objective of all of our thoughts, words and actions?
6:23:39 AM Chris Groves: What is it we're living for? What is the point of our lives?
6:23:52 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: no point. Just living.
6:24:04 AM Chris Groves: Then life is inherently illogical and without meaning.
6:24:16 AM Chris Groves: And furthermore, the lack of meaning is itself meaningless.
6:24:37 AM Chris Groves: Is that a reality that humanity is prepared to live in?
6:25:17 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: perhaps life should just be enjoyed for the rarity that it is in an otherwise rather desolate universe
6:25:35 AM Chris Groves: Desolate relative to what?
6:25:48 AM Chris Groves: That implies that the goal is experience of something relative to something else
6:25:51 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: How many planets/moons there are able to support life as we know it
6:25:57 AM Chris Groves: That is an algorithmically definable objective
6:26:12 AM Chris Groves: We're back to a logical goal, an end for which our activities are means
6:27:52 AM Chris Groves: What's logically relevant about life? What purpose does logic, the finder of means to ends, and ends to means, serve to life, or those living it? Why has humanity developed this faculty of making various types of  temporal, spacial and cognitive connections between ontological objects?
6:28:02 AM Chris Groves: How does an individual gain from this?
6:28:10 AM Chris Groves: How does a species gain from it?
6:28:48 AM Chris Groves: So far it's equipped us with nuclear weapons and the paranoia to go with the arsenal.
6:29:40 AM Chris Groves: And an industrial system utterly reliant on nonrenewable resources, killing off the living resources which support the matrix of life, without which human life is impossible.
6:29:57 AM Chris Groves: Empirical evidence bespeaks poorly of logic as an evolutionary adaptation in that regard.
6:30:13 AM Chris Groves: How valid are the connections we purport to make in our formal systems without definite ends?
6:30:24 AM Chris Groves: This requires the logic to be finitely circular, and therefore demonstrably false.
6:32:48 AM Chris Groves: Infinite suns, infinite planets, infinite moons, there's not a whole lot remarkable about us. If the point of living is to be enjoyed for its rarity, (back to a change amidst objects, dynamical experience, rather than the static), then what frequency of states is to be preferred? All of this forms into patterns, these patterns have to do with the distribution of matter and energy obeying physical laws, or the breakdown of physical laws such as that experienced with a black hole.
6:33:03 AM Chris Groves: Physical laws being the programmed parameters.
6:33:24 AM Chris Groves: What this means is that chaos is composed of order and vice versa, patterns are composed of randomness.
6:33:34 AM Chris Groves: No state is ever quite like another
6:33:41 AM Chris Groves: Because all states are calculated relative to eachother
6:33:52 AM Chris Groves: That relative order is always changing
6:34:01 AM Chris Groves: And relative to the observer, as well as the time, as well as the space
6:34:25 AM Chris Groves: Hence, the cognitive hole in physics without a theory of consciousness rooted in computability.
6:35:41 AM Chris Groves: It can be logically proven that human beings are engaged in both illogical and alogical activity, speech and thoughts. In a logically describable system, how can illogic come about? Illogic has a negative relation to truth-value, alogical has a neutral relation. Logic is recursive.
6:36:25 AM Chris Groves: If human minds run logic natively, amongst other less algorithmic programs, what causes failures of logic and lapses into illogic?
6:36:40 AM Chris Groves: This is due to incomplete sets, and tehrefore incomplete relations between obejcts.
6:37:41 AM Chris Groves: This is due to having filters of perception, and an inability to connect sets of logically performed operations to other logically performed operations in a cohesive whole, therefore rendering our logical activities, speech and thoughts spatially, temporally and cognitively isolated, and finitely circular
6:37:50 AM Chris Groves: And therefore false, due to admitting illogical prepositions.
6:38:20 AM Chris Groves: How then can logic check for errors and eliminate illogic in a logically described system?
6:38:33 AM Chris Groves: (A logical operation is impossible without a described system)
6:40:18 AM Chris Groves: Logic is based on category theory, categories of objects (properties), categories of connections/relations, how properties act on one another in a matrix. Because we do not know all objects, and all relations, and falsely attribute objecthood to that which is not really an object (because it is a flux, a system composed of changing systems composed of changing systems composed of... etc.)
6:42:33 AM Chris Groves: But we have since established, logically, that all states are unique constructs of relativity (due to their relation to all other states), that being so, categories become as varied as properties; collections of properties, loosely defined by similarity or difference between eachother.
6:42:55 AM Chris Groves: This means infinite difference between infinite statres
6:42:59 AM Chris Groves: *states
6:43:31 AM Chris Groves: And thus the final frontier of logic; there is no known computation system capable of computing all states simultaneously in an infinite set of states, parallel or sequential
6:44:07 AM Chris Groves: No known formal system capable of expressing that computation, because language has only described superficial categories of only a few known states from the phenomenal world.
6:44:54 AM Chris Groves: This is compounded by the unsolvability of a system without an objective.
6:45:26 AM Chris Groves: Where a system can be alternately restricted to the set of properties and categories known as 'the universe,' 'life,' 'mankind,' 'individual self'
6:46:01 AM Chris Groves: ie; ultimately, no logical systems can be carried out without introducing illogical operating parameters unless a logical end goal can be described.
6:46:03 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: I need to go to bed.
6:46:08 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: my head is doing front flips
6:46:21 AM Chris Groves: Hold up, one last thing
6:46:28 AM Chris Groves: Where I'm going with all of this is
6:46:46 AM Chris Groves: The only logical objective for all of this
6:47:00 AM Chris Groves: Is universal knowledge and bliss
6:47:19 AM Chris Groves: For all experiencers of all possible states
6:47:30 AM Chris Groves: Without this goal, a lack of meaning is introduced
6:47:40 AM Chris Groves: In any supposedly logical system
6:47:53 AM Chris Groves: that's all, good night
7:00:13 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: goodnight brother faggot.
7:00:22 AM theshirebaggins@mac.com: I love you stay safe and all that jaz.
Changed status to Offline (7:00:38 AM)