bong

DEC 14 - 4:08AM
Trisolis999: ty

DEC 14 - 4:09AM
MissSentiment: Finally.

MissSentiment: Even though you're just going to say the same thing as Jesse

Trisolis999: so what's this all about

Trisolis999: dealing with mod abuse?

MissSentiment: Not sure if there is any dealing with it.

Trisolis999: hi corg

MissSentiment: This all started with mouldy.

DEC 14 - 4:10AM
Corgisploot: *wave* I just want to read mostly

MissSentiment: And I swear to god you guys never do anything about this mod fluctuation

Trisolis999: fluctuation?

MissSentiment: But

AerohillB: I am the newest mod here but I've been a mod for over 6 years

MissSentiment: We have too many mods as it is

Trisolis999: i can agree with that

MissSentiment: And the fact that everyone complains about the same one

AerohillB: I can't rescind the rule

DEC 14 - 4:11AM
MissSentiment: And yet nothing is ever done about it.

AerohillB: I would like to understand your point

MissSentiment: Ok whatever listen aero

Trisolis999: i've got no idea if this is actually about you, aero, or if this is basically just a vent/discussion

MissSentiment: This has been a recurring issue for maybe the pase week

Trisolis999: we'll see where it goes

MissSentiment: Mouldy silenced someone for talking about the mods.

DEC 14 - 4:12AM
MissSentiment: In my honesty, he was being honest.

MissSentiment: what he said were things I agreed with. Most of the mods here are just make up excuses to warn and silence people.

AerohillB: was the silenced individual being critical of all mods? And was there a specific complaint

MissSentiment: Mouldy labels anything you do against her as harassment

DEC 14 - 4:13AM
MissSentiment: It's completely ******* annoying, and we all hate it.

MissSentiment: Because it's a legitimate reason to give a silence, but it's subjective.

MissSentiment: Meaning whatever she calls harassment is harassment and she can silence for it.

Trisolis999: i can't tell if her issue is with being overbearing with rules or just not really been able to express what she means a lot of the time/understanding what people are saying

MissSentiment: She doesn't care.

DEC 14 - 4:14AM
Creedictator: i've personally had encounters with Mouldy

MissSentiment: It was one person who got silenced.

MissSentiment: And he came back with an alt asking about why he got silenced.

Creedictator: where i've been threatened, and at times she attempted to intimidate me

MissSentiment: I'm under the impression that she just silences people and doesn't give reasons.

MissSentiment: And she silenced that guy's alt and didn't tell him anything.

Trisolis999: it's weird

DEC 14 - 4:15AM
Trisolis999: sometimes she'll just warn people even though they should get silences, and sometimes she silences people without warning

Trisolis999: it's like she switches between two extremes of it at a whim

MissSentiment: It made other people curious and they started asking, and that's where Ayrus and Loki come in

MissSentiment: Ayrus was pissed at ALL the mods

AerohillB: Do you feel that mods should warn people individually or when the conversation gets into dicy territory is a blanket warning okay?

MissSentiment: And Loki was misunderstood and silenced.

DEC 14 - 4:16AM
Trisolis999: the loki thing was really odd

MissSentiment: People kept coming back and asking about silences, only for mouldy to add more gas to the fire by silencing them

MissSentiment: This could have easily be resolved if she wasn't such a bitch

MissSentiment: And she said the same thing

MissSentiment: "Stop harassing me"

MissSentiment: And that's it

Trisolis999: i feel the ayrus situation is really badly handled

AerohillB: how many people were questioning her at one time?

MissSentiment: The participants of CK and I are just sitting here wondering how long she would keep that up.

DEC 14 - 4:17AM
MissSentiment: Um.

MissSentiment: I do believe it was max 2 at a time.

Trisolis999: on one hand i think ayrus is being annoying with doing this for months and forcing everyone in chat to go through it, on the other hand the mods should just try to reason with him more and tell him straight up they'd just silence him if he diditagain

MissSentiment: And at one time, I told mouldy that clearly they weren't going to stop and maybe she should actually go away for a bit to let them cool down.

AerohillB: was she offering any explanation?

MissSentiment: All she was saying was "Don't ask about silences"

DEC 14 - 4:18AM
AerohillB: so they should be allowed to be jerks and name call? but the mod should leave ?

MissSentiment: And to be honest, she's done that. And she stated that she doesn't have to tell anyone why she's silencing them. And I understood that.

MissSentiment: All they wanted was an answer.

MissSentiment: Why be a bitch and just keep feeding them?

MissSentiment: Even I could have came up with fake ass reasons.

DEC 14 - 4:19AM
MissSentiment: "Well I'm silencing you now because you got on an alt to dodge my first silence"

AerohillB: but why should they be able to do as they please and drive any one out of the room?

MissSentiment: they weren't doing as they please.

DEC 14 - 4:20AM
MissSentiment: Like I said after the first one, people just wanted to know why she was being like that

AerohillB: if an alt continues the poor behavior the silences are to be excalated

MissSentiment: And she shut down everyone

Trisolis999: i think another issue with md is feeding the trolls and shit along with bad explanations

MissSentiment: Yeah

MissSentiment: I think she's feeding the trolls

MissSentiment: AT THIS POINT

MissSentiment: She knows why they are coming out, but she is doing the same thing to keep them coming

Trisolis999: all this probably could've been avoided if she just said 'ayrus, don't keep bringing this up in public chat, you can try to talk to admins or mods if you want but i will punish you if you continue'

Trisolis999: and i don't think it's just the people you're talking about

DEC 14 - 4:21AM
Trisolis999: i see it all the time with tons of trolls

MissSentiment: Anything.

MissSentiment: but all she could say was "Stop harassing me" or "don't ask about silences"

Trisolis999: it may be minor since they usually get attention from some random guy anyway but still

AerohillB: the issue is that Ayrus seems to have dug in their heels and goes on the attack with all mods "damn the man style"

MissSentiment: Yeah.

DEC 14 - 4:22AM
Trisolis999: ayrus i feel is still in the wrong but md handles it poorly

MissSentiment: because they haven't done anything about it.

AerohillB: I was here the other day and he was railing at all mods

MissSentiment: That's where we are, Aero.

MissSentiment: Mouldy is doing all this shit, and the other mods aren't doing anything.

AerohillB: the other mods do not control what Mouldy does

MissSentiment: Ok so

MissSentiment: you aren't accountable either?

DEC 14 - 4:23AM
AerohillB: have you made complaints off her profile?

MissSentiment: We all have.

AerohillB: not for Mouldy's actions

MissSentiment: Reports NEVER work

Trisolis999: i will say

AerohillB: have you gotten responses?

Trisolis999: it's pretty difficult to get a mod warned/demodded for shit they do

Trisolis999: unless it's really bad abuse of power/doing something illegal/being inactive for years on end

Trisolis999: at least with my experience

DEC 14 - 4:24AM
AerohillB: back when I started out I was given some directions when the admins felt I could have handled something differently

MissSentiment: I know for god damn sure that doesn't happen anymore.

DEC 14 - 4:25AM
MissSentiment: I have NEVER been silenced before the first time I showed up to that room

AerohillB: you don't know that

MissSentiment: But the moment I step in, I'm sitting on multiple WEEK suspensions, perm ban warnings, and day silences

AerohillB: it may seem that nothing is being said

Trisolis999: week suspensions?

MissSentiment: And I guarantee 70% are from mouldy.

Trisolis999: what happened

DEC 14 - 4:26AM
MissSentiment: Yeah. Not being able to log into my account.

Trisolis999: weird

AerohillB: permaban warnings come from admins reviewing the situation

MissSentiment: They do that shit apparently.

Trisolis999: i've been locked out of my acc for a bit but i'm pretty sure that's just my internet

MissSentiment: Both of them happened while I was talking to her.

AerohillB: lets all take a deep breath please

MissSentiment: We're all breathing.

DEC 14 - 4:27AM
MissSentiment: but we're all asking for how long?

AerohillB: Miss, please chill you are obviously upset

MissSentiment: yeah. This shit has been going on for a WEEK

AerohillB: and I get that you feel that you are being treated unfairly

MissSentiment: And the only thing done was a room rule telling us not to ask about silences

DEC 14 - 4:28AM
MissSentiment: you guys, shouldn't be able to enforce anything that is subjective

Trisolis999: i will say, though this is kind of detracting from the conversation and no one can really do shit about it

Trisolis999: i really dislike the fact we have room rules that're just in the description

MissSentiment: And I swear. She is hella intimidating.

MissSentiment: When we talk about this, all she has to add is go to another room, or report.

Trisolis999: the majority of them don't need to be there/aren't enforced

DEC 14 - 4:29AM
Trisolis999: and i still don't really understand the silence/ban/mute thing

Trisolis999: i get it if, as aero pointed out, it's the example where people are talking shit or saying bad things while the person can't talk

MissSentiment: But that doesn't happen all the time.

Trisolis999: but usually when it's just a question about what happened/why it doesn't make sense to just say 'don't talk about it, warning'

MissSentiment: ^

DEC 14 - 4:30AM
MissSentiment: Why not PM the person like YOU DID

Trisolis999: not only is it not really fair as a warning, it draws more attention to it

AerohillB: and also the mod mentality of attack the mod for doing the silencing

AerohillB: warnings are equal parts warning and education

MissSentiment: Because the silencing isn't justified.

MissSentiment: What we see is just her silencing people she doesn't want to deal with.

AerohillB: yes some of them are

DEC 14 - 4:31AM
MissSentiment: And I know damn well that's not why she has the mod status

MissSentiment: If that's the case, I want to be my own mod

MissSentiment: I want my own room and I want my own mods

Trisolis999: i will say

Trisolis999: mods get a lot of shit even when they don't deserve it

AerohillB: Miss, I've seen you be belligerent and overly sexual both things that would warrant a warning or silence

MissSentiment: Yeah.

MissSentiment: And guess what

MissSentiment: SHE WARNS ME FOR THAT

Trisolis999: but i feel a lot of the shit they get is either from the same person (who should've just been instantly silenced when saying it in that case) or trolls

DEC 14 - 4:32AM
Trisolis999: in which case i don't understand the like

MissSentiment: And "most" times I don't continue.

Trisolis999: mod rules and stuff for situations like those, but still

MissSentiment: I haven't been silenced this week

Trisolis999: really?

MissSentiment: None.

AerohillB: that surprises me

Trisolis999: me too honestly

MissSentiment: It does, doesn't it?

DEC 14 - 4:33AM
MissSentiment: I can't tell if it's because she's getting soft, or she's too busy feeding trolls.

MissSentiment: Or enjoying me.

AerohillB: because the other day when I was in the room I thought it should have happpened

MissSentiment: I make jokes about loving her.

MissSentiment: She pushes me away.

MissSentiment: That's what I wanted to say, Aero.

AerohillB: okay can I invite Sike so they can clear they air and answer some things for us?

DEC 14 - 4:34AM
MissSentiment: These people are getting silenced for doing less than me and I'm not getting punished at all

MissSentiment: Sure

DEC 14 - 4:35AM
AerohillB: oops Sike disappeared lets give it a minute and see if they come back

AerohillB: can I say a few things about how the questioning of silences seems to me as a mod?

Trisolis999: go for it

DEC 14 - 4:36AM
MissSentiment: Oh

AerohillB: okay as far as I am as a mod I usually try to warn warn warn before I act

MissSentiment: yeah

AerohillB: and when I do silence I feel that it is abundantly clear why the silence was handed out

DEC 14 - 4:37AM
Trisolis999: there goes corgi

AerohillB: and when I have 2-6 people saying "UNFAIR why was soanso silenced" and calling me names

AerohillB: I feel harassed

Trisolis999: yeah that sucks

DEC 14 - 4:38AM
Trisolis999: but i feel it still really depends on the situation

AerohillB: and then I hand out more silences for those

AerohillB: and if you come back on an alt asking about it in a belligerent manner I up the ante

DEC 14 - 4:39AM
AerohillB: I don't know what is going on with Mouldy as I am not her and have not seen what happened

AerohillB: but perhaps not charge at her when it happens but ask about it calmly

MissSentiment: all we do is ask

Trisolis999: i've tried calmly asking her about things at points

MissSentiment: No one is being rude lol

Trisolis999: she just pushes me away

DEC 14 - 4:40AM
MissSentiment: It's just them asking why they got silenced

Trisolis999: which is why i don't involve myself with her anymore

MissSentiment: Ayrus has pretty much been the only one being rude

AerohillB: I've seen rude

AerohillB: and Loki and a few others

DEC 14 - 4:41AM
AerohillB: and Ayrus is rude to all mods even when we are trying to get his point of view

Trisolis999: ayrus is just a **** honestly

Trisolis999: he doesn't listen and can't admit he's wrong

DEC 14 - 4:42AM
MissSentiment: He was like me

MissSentiment: When shit is unfair, I lose all consideration of policy

Trisolis999: i don't even remember why ayrus is mad

DEC 14 - 4:43AM
AerohillB: and when someone is unwilling to look at their behavior and consider that someone else as a point it does not lend to things getting better

Trisolis999: oh wait right now he's annoyed about randomly getting silenced by someone

Trisolis999: but i forgot what the thing before was

DEC 14 - 4:44AM
AerohillB: I tried to talk to Ayrus but it did not really help me understand the issue. They just damned me with all the others as if I was in lock step and not an individual

DEC 14 - 4:45AM
AerohillB: so let me test my understanding

Trisolis999: he constantly talks about not getting to talk about it but then won't talk about it when given the chance

DEC 14 - 4:46AM
Trisolis999: 'i'll make a k+ room and we can talk about it later when i'm home'

Trisolis999: 'ok'

AerohillB: you do not like the don't talk about silenced individuals rule because you want to understand why someone was silenced?

Trisolis999: 'wow this guy hasn't been here for a while what a **** he doesn't listen to my problems at all'

DEC 14 - 4:47AM
Trisolis999: and i feel the 'talking about silences' rule is a bit vague, it punishes all curiosity instead of just the ones that are obviously a user being bad

Trisolis999: like maybe just politely asking why a user was silenced in a situation when it was unclear is fine

Trisolis999: but, say, calling it unfair and immediately yelling at a mod is definitely something bad

Trisolis999: dunno about miss' opinion

DEC 14 - 4:50AM
SikeBanana: Okay so. I came in cause I heard there was confusion on the 'dont ask about other folks being silenced' rule

AerohillB: thanks, I'd like to understand it myself

DEC 14 - 4:51AM
SikeBanana: please let me try and get it all typed out. may take a few messages

SikeBanana: okay. So the Rule on "Don't ask why someone else was silenced" was after talking to Jo. Partially because no one else is privvy to why a person should be silenced (private information) but also because it tends to directly turn to attacking.

DEC 14 - 4:52AM
SikeBanana: Secondly because people hyper focus on why X was silenced and this turns into bandwagoning, something that everyone here has been a part of and done themselves. Cafe has a really bad history of forming lynch mobs

SikeBanana: This is why we have rules saying to privately contact a mod or contact support for info on it if you were silenced, but other folks really dont need to know why they were silenced unless it actually pertains to a blanket issue

DEC 14 - 4:53AM
MissSentiment: Now see

SikeBanana: I understand frustration also comes from the 'contact a mod' part because folks feel that they dont get that chance when they have been muted by mods

MissSentiment: The problem with that is mouldy could easily just tell them that.

SikeBanana: However, as mods, we also don't have to pertain to harassment via profile whispers. I myself have had numerous members harass me in my private messages. Miss you in particular have admitted that you try and flood whispers so that mods cant read chat

DEC 14 - 4:54AM
AerohillB: but why should a mod tell someone else why Soandso was silenced?

SikeBanana: The only case it would be appropriate to say "X was silenced for Y" is if there had been a blanket warning for the room

SikeBanana: "I did tell you guys I would be silencing if you didnt stop being inappropriate about this topic"

DEC 14 - 4:55AM
AerohillB: another question I have is why is it worth attacking someone over and over over the course of days over a 15 min time out?

DEC 14 - 4:56AM
Trisolis999: anger

AerohillB: so spending hours over 15 min is worth while?

SikeBanana: Can you guys understand though that in the attacking over 1 15 minute silence, how that is going to likely turn into many more silences and bans vs contacting people above the chain?

Trisolis999: no

Trisolis999: but it's understandable for some people

DEC 14 - 4:57AM
SikeBanana: Can I explain anything else or make it easier to understand?

AerohillB: I've had hours long conversations with people that go no where but "you suck and I should be able to do whatever I want"

DEC 14 - 4:58AM
Trisolis999: can i have my own room yet :(

AerohillB: do you have K+?

SikeBanana: I don't get to control that Tris. best I can say is to do well enough to get modded somewhere and mod your own room that way

Trisolis999: i will manipulate the users of a dead chatroom

Trisolis999: until i can own it

Trisolis999: then

Trisolis999: anarchy

SikeBanana: If you want Chill Lounge or Pub let me know Ill have my M taken off =b

DEC 14 - 4:59AM
Trisolis999: both

Creedictator: Hey, before this is dissolved

Creedictator: i have a comment

Trisolis999: go on

Creedictator: sorry I was gone for most of this

Creedictator: but again I have to comment on the very existence of the rule, and the existence of a rule list in the room description

DEC 14 - 5:00AM
SikeBanana: I have no problem answering questions on it Creed (Are you infact Ninja?)

Creedictator: I'm not ninja

Creedictator: whoever that is

SikeBanana: ok

Creedictator: I completely understand the reasoning behind the rule, however the rule just behind it is "Don't be a jerk"

SikeBanana: You just seem to know a lot about the room/regs and I havent seen you in chat much before on this account

Creedictator: which is natural, first rule of conduct

DEC 14 - 5:01AM
Creedictator: i've been a few times on the room under another account

Creedictator: also starting in Creed

AerohillB: Doesn't The Village have room specific rules as well?

SikeBanana: They do

AerohillB: I know Sloth did

SikeBanana: Jo's room did as well and was the one that explained that I should/could have room specific rules

Trisolis999: jo's room

Trisolis999: what

AerohillB: and Road Less Traveled has a few as well

SikeBanana: To make it very clear what users would be able to ask about/do vs not

DEC 14 - 5:02AM
SikeBanana: Jo owned a room back in like 2009 Tris

Creedictator: okay, I understand that the rule has good intentions

SikeBanana: It's gone now a days

Trisolis999: also just a random question

Trisolis999: say you were a mod

Trisolis999: could you make your own list of like, things that could net warnings/silences and how many warnings it would take

Trisolis999: i remember there's average warning amounts and shit but i think you can lower them if needed

DEC 14 - 5:03AM
SikeBanana: I mean probably, like certain users are way more strict on Racism than others ect. But mostly each mod is going to be different and each situation different. I dont think any mod is going to make a blanket X warnings to silence list

SikeBanana: And we do not have average warning limits

AerohillB: there are things that are instant bans and silences, Trisolis

Trisolis999: not average i meant more like

Trisolis999: most would do 3 warnings for specific shit

SikeBanana: The only rule is 1 warning Whether others are taking it as a warning or not is on them

Trisolis999: anyway i just randomly came upwith this

Creedictator: man it's more flexible than I thought

Trisolis999: oh you only need one for the stuff that isn't instant silence/ban?

Trisolis999: sweet

DEC 14 - 5:04AM
SikeBanana: 1 warning minimum for any action. Again the time period of that could be flexible

SikeBanana: could be non specific but room specific

Trisolis999: because i was just thinking it might've been useful for some people

SikeBanana: Theres a lot of variables. As long as the mod can explain where the warning was, it suffices

Trisolis999: i could patent that idea

AerohillB: and it does not have to be an individual specific warning

Trisolis999: and then force mods to pay me

AerohillB: Mods don't get paid

DEC 14 - 5:05AM
Trisolis999: i don't know where i'm going with this

Trisolis999: but they do have payments

SikeBanana: Did Miss have anything she wanted to weigh in on?

Trisolis999: probably but i think she's off right now

Creedictator: i did omg

SikeBanana: A few of us in the room are trying to be more open about meeting with you guys privately and explaining things

Creedictator: well, it's good that you are

Creedictator: i held the cafe kong mod crew in very dim light before this

DEC 14 - 5:06AM
SikeBanana: but bare in mind like a lot of us have been harassed (legitimately) for months and it makes us less amicable about doing so.

SikeBanana: I dont mind it as long as folks stay calm and reasonable. I chatted with Loki for over an hour last week when he was angry. It went well

SikeBanana: Ayrus talked to Amber for 2 hours and cussed her out at the end. It did not. Now he's in hot water

Creedictator: oh damn

DEC 14 - 5:07AM
Trisolis999: why is ayrus even angry again

Trisolis999: he got silenced randomly with no warning or whatever right

Trisolis999: allegedly by one of three mods who all said they had nothing to do with it

Trisolis999: so i imagine it was a report or some shit

SikeBanana: He decided to jump into a fight, got silenced after being told to stop. Then continued for months to harass mods that he couldnt pinpoint did it

AerohillB: and I do think it bares in mind that there are several mods in the room so attacking one because you "know" they did something is not advisable

SikeBanana: which turned into me ttelling him to leave me the **** alone after months of it

DEC 14 - 5:08AM
SikeBanana: he didnt, got pissed he got more silenced and it snowballed

SikeBanana: For sure, a lot of us have no problem 'owning up' to when we silence.

Trisolis999: he's really bothering me by this point

Trisolis999: sometimes he's alright

Trisolis999: but the rest of the time he just gets into arguments randomly just because 'mods bad'

SikeBanana: But it boils down to respect. If we're attacked when questioned about it, we're less likely to answer

Trisolis999: or just because he wants to be a victim

DEC 14 - 5:09AM
AerohillB: I don't know that cause or Ayrus' feelings on this

SikeBanana: Ayrus was a mod that was demodded for abusing his powers. (this is in public forums and known and hes admitted to it in chat).

Trisolis999: >i could do better than you

AerohillB: I can say that when I approached him and tried to find out I felt attacked

SikeBanana: What I can say is, he feels when he is punished its mod abuse, even when its blatantly not.

Trisolis999: >literally got demodded for abuse

Creedictator: >greentexting

DEC 14 - 5:10AM
Trisolis999: >it's green i promise

SikeBanana: There are a number of demodded mods in the room

SikeBanana: so when we say that mods DO get talked to about reports and they DO matter, there are some very good examples sitting in chat

SikeBanana: usually causing the problems

DEC 14 - 5:12AM
SikeBanana: Anything else? I got a little bit more time before I hae to go for a bit

SikeBanana: Speak now or hold your peace lol

AerohillB: and sometimes the users that are causing the issues have dozens of previously banned alts

Trisolis999: is there actually a way to circumvent bans on your own acc

Trisolis999: i saw some guy getting warned for talking about it but i missed what he actually said

DEC 14 - 5:13AM
SikeBanana: I dont believe you can circumvent a ban on the account that was banned

AerohillB: try to take a step back if you are seeing red and look at what you did before jumping on someone's band wagon

DEC 14 - 5:14AM
AerohillB: are we done?

Trisolis999: i think

Trisolis999: what's your favorite movie?

DEC 14 - 5:15AM
SikeBanana: Tris in particular you and I havent ever had a serious altercation so if there is something just message me or invite me to one of these.

SikeBanana: also Jurassic Park

AerohillB: lately I like The Martian

SikeBanana: I can't remember for Creed but I figure itd be the same. I dont mind for Miss either, just it needs to stay calm

AerohillB: I am more that willing to talk to someone, but not to just have accusations thrown at me

DEC 14 - 5:16AM
SikeBanana: ^

SikeBanana: I know I haven't been online as much either since my new job, but I will try and do try to check in nightly

DEC 14 - 5:17AM
AerohillB: and if I say something about take a breath, calm down, step back, chill, that is not to be incindary it is to keep things productive

AerohillB: the past can not be changed but we can try to learn from it

AerohillB: not all the learning is going to happen on one side

Creedictator: we've most definitely not had encounters before, sike

DEC 14 - 5:18AM
AerohillB: both need to be flexible enough to see the other's point of view

Creedictator: i'm a good boy i swear

SikeBanana: Didn't think so xD I don't even know your main

Creedictator: ahahaha

Creedictator: woah u checked my main?

SikeBanana: No I don't know it

DEC 14 - 5:19AM
Creedictator: i've only been on Cafe Kong under *******

Creedictator: Creed ix

DEC 14 - 5:20AM
SikeBanana: Alright well. Im gonna head off then if we're all done here

SikeBanana: Have a nice evening folks

DEC 14 - 5:21AM
Creedictator: ciao