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JaysonSunshine

mugz on country above party

JaysonSunshine
May 15th, 2017
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  2. Status #christiandebateX
  3. #christiandebate: Please note this channel rule: 1 John 4:20-21 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
  4. [15:31] == RachelThompson [[email protected]] has joined #christiandebate
  5. [15:31] == mode/#ChristianDebate [+v sexb] by BibleBot
  6. [15:31] == mode/#ChristianDebate [+v RachelThompson] by BibleBot
  7. [15:32] <+mugz> :)
  8. [15:32] <+mugz> “[Americans have] a continuing normative commitment to the ideals of individual freedom and mobility, values that extend far beyond the issue of race in the American mind. The depth of this commitment may be summarily dismissed as the unfounded optimism of the average American—I may not be Donald Trump now, but just you wait; if I don't make it, my children will.” - Barry Obama
  9. [15:32] <+RachelThompson> mugz: How do you feel about Trump sharing that classified information about ISIS with Russia?
  10. [15:33] <+mugz> RachelThompson can you tell me exactly what that information was?
  11. [15:33] == Mickey52 [[email protected]] has joined #christiandebate
  12. [15:33] == mode/#ChristianDebate [+v Mickey52] by BibleBot
  13. [15:33] <+nancy_> hello
  14. [15:34] <+Forest`> hello nancy_
  15. [15:34] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Have you heard the story?
  16. [15:34] <+RachelThompson> It's breaking right now.
  17. [15:34] <+RachelThompson> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
  18. [15:34] <+mugz> RachelThompson yes, have you? If so, please tell us all what the info was
  19. [15:34] == mode/#ChristianDebate [+l 67] by QRT
  20. [15:35] <+RachelThompson> mugz: You've read the originating source? The Washtington Post.
  21. [15:35] == barabbas` [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout]
  22. [15:35] <+RachelThompson> You'll know the answer to your question, then.
  23. [15:35] <+RachelThompson> I can tell you what you're doing, though.
  24. [15:35] <+RachelThompson> Here is what you are doing:
  25. [15:35] <+RachelThompson> 1 - The Washington Post did not report many details because the information is code-word secret
  26. [15:36] <+RachelThompson> 2 - You're implying that this lack of details means it's a fake story
  27. [15:36] <+RachelThompson> 3 - You're implying The Washington Post is fake news
  28. [15:36] <+RachelThompson> 4 - You are implying the Deep State planted this fake story with the fake Washington Post to discredit our Dear Leader
  29. [15:36] <+mugz> RachelThompson according to the Post article, he did not discuss anything that was not already publicly known
  30. [15:36] <+mugz> “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”
  31. [15:36] <+RachelThompson> "The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said."
  32. [15:37] <+mugz> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b6206e8758c3
  33. [15:37] <+mugz> Furthermore
  34. [15:37] <+mugz> "Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law."
  35. [15:37] <+mugz> so there is your story :P
  36. [15:37] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Are you stating that you support any and all disclosure by the President of classified information?
  37. [15:38] <+RachelThompson> Due to his "broad authority to desclassify government secrets"
  38. [15:38] <+RachelThompson> I don't. Because Presidents can make mistakes.
  39. [15:38] <+mugz> RachelThompson the fact that ISIS was planning to use laptops and other electronic devices was revealed after to so-called "failed" raid in Yemen
  40. [15:39] <+RachelThompson> mugz: The WP story emphasis is that the source of the intel is the truly valuable information that was shared.
  41. [15:39] <+RachelThompson> Not the particular piece of information.
  42. [15:39] <+RachelThompson> They didn't elaborate on the source. An example could be that it's somebody within ISIS leadership.
  43. [15:39] <+RachelThompson> Russia could then leak or release that information, which might result in the death of that person.
  44. [15:39] <+RachelThompson> Which would make America less safe.
  45. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> It also damages American credibility and will make it more likely in the future sources won't share intelligence with us.
  46. [15:40] <+mugz> Laptops Banned Because of “Battery Bomb” Intel From Yemen Raid
  47. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> That makes America less safe.
  48. [15:40] <+mugz> http://conservativetribune.com/trumps-right-horror-plane-laptops/
  49. [15:40] <+mugz> just more fake news RachelThompson
  50. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> "The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said."
  51. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> "by a U.S. partner through an intelligent-sharing arrangement consider so sensitive"
  52. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> The sharing arrangement is what is sensitive
  53. [15:40] <+RachelThompson> Not the information
  54. [15:41] <+RachelThompson> Say that you have as a source the foreign minister of the Russian government.
  55. [15:41] <+RachelThompson> Maybe he tells you something not too important
  56. [15:41] <+RachelThompson> But you reveal you have his as a source
  57. [15:41] <+RachelThompson> He won't be a very good source anymore
  58. [15:41] <+DeckrdR> People love Trump because he bucks the system
  59. [15:41] <+RachelThompson> Look at McMaster's nuanced 'rebuttal'
  60. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> The publicly available qualifier is only for the military operations
  61. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> “The president and the foreign minister reviewed common threats from terrorist organizations to include threats to aviation,” said H.R. McMaster, the national security adviser, who participated in the meeting. “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”
  62. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> "and no military operations were disclosed..."
  63. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> That's not the allegation
  64. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> Now, he does say 'no intelligence sources'
  65. [15:42] <+RachelThompson> That could mean that Trump didn't say "Frank Smith, second in command of ISIS'
  66. [15:42] <+mugz> RachelThompson again, the Post artcicle you cited: “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”
  67. [15:43] <+mugz> and even if he did:
  68. [15:43] <+DeckrdR> Do you think Trump is doing a great job mugz ?
  69. [15:43] <+RachelThompson> He may have merely provided enough information, based off who could know the information, to identify the person indirectly
  70. [15:43] <+mugz> "Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law."
  71. [15:43] <+RachelThompson> mugz: I do not allege he broke the law
  72. [15:43] <+RachelThompson> I allege he is a foolish braggart and leaked sensitive information to an enemy of the United States
  73. [15:43] <+RachelThompson> And that makes Americans less safe
  74. [15:43] <+RachelThompson> Why are they our enemy?
  75. [15:44] <+RachelThompson> Because that's what the DoD states.
  76. [15:44] <+RachelThompson> Russia is one of the primary enemies of the United States
  77. [15:44] <+RachelThompson> (They are the primary enemy)
  78. [15:44] <+RachelThompson> The DoD has a 4+2 model of threats to America
  79. [15:44] <+RachelThompson> The 4 references 4 permanent, long-term threats: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
  80. [15:44] <+mugz> DeckrdR for a non-politician yes, and I don't disagree with much of what he has done, but I am upset that he caved to democrats on the wall - that was upsetting - but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as the 2018 budget is coming up
  81. [15:45] <+DeckrdR> oh dear, thanks for explaining mugz
  82. [15:45] <+RachelThompson> The +2 represents less-permanent, more ephemeral threats: cyberattacks from non-state actors and terrorism
  83. [15:45] <+RachelThompson> The 4+2 model came up in General Mattis confirmation hearings
  84. [15:45] <+RachelThompson> He confirmed Russia in the 'competitive adversay' category
  85. [15:45] <+RachelThompson> He has a four-part model for organizing other nations
  86. [15:46] <+RachelThompson> Ally, competitive ally, competitive adversary, enemy
  87. [15:46] <+RachelThompson> Other sources in our government have stated "Russia is the number one enemy of America"
  88. [15:46] <+RachelThompson> Several members of Congress, I believe
  89. [15:46] <+RachelThompson> (Including Republicans)
  90. [15:46] <+RachelThompson> Having a foolish braggart with legal authority to declassify information is a recipe for making Americans less safe
  91. [15:46] <+mugz> RachelThompson imagine how many libreal brains would explode if he was tying his facetime with the Russians to hundreds of millions of dollars to the Trump foundation :P
  92. [15:47] <+RachelThompson> mugz: We're currently discussing President Trump
  93. [15:47] <@[e]> thinking like this is why the DEM's have lost so many elections
  94. [15:47] <+RachelThompson> Try to stay focused
  95. [15:47] <@[e]> please dont change
  96. [15:47] <+RachelThompson> [e]: Caring about national security?
  97. [15:47] <+RachelThompson> You'd think that be a non-partisan issue.
  98. [15:47] <+RachelThompson> mugz: I am able to criticize any and all threats to our country
  99. [15:47] <@[e]> dems dont care
  100. [15:47] <@[e]> media dont care
  101. [15:47] <@[e]> one of the same
  102. [15:48] <+RachelThompson> For example, Hillary Clinton made a very foolish decision with her private email server
  103. [15:48] <+RachelThompson> It seriously compromised security for our nation
  104. [15:48] <@[e]> lololololol
  105. [15:48] == Forest` [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: ]
  106. [15:48] <+mugz> RachelThompson you are just a mass media lemming
  107. [15:48] <+RachelThompson> And it should have been illegal
  108. [15:48] <+RachelThompson> Also, President Trump is a foolish braggart who risks national security
  109. [15:48] <+RachelThompson> Can you criticize both?
  110. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> Also, Hillary Clinton clearly used the Clinton Foundation as a means to launder money from foreign interests for her dynasty
  111. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> Also, Donald Trump is the most corrupt politician in this regard in our history
  112. [15:49] <@[e]> she broke 16 laws
  113. [15:49] <@[e]> diffrent set of rules for her
  114. [15:49] <@[e]> lololol
  115. [15:49] <@[e]> no he isnt
  116. [15:49] <@[e]> try again
  117. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> [e]: You are unable to criticize both
  118. [15:49] Ignored [e], to unignore type: /UNIGNORE [e]
  119. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> This caused me to stop interacting with you
  120. [15:49] <+DeckrdR> what Hillary did or didn't do is irrelevant
  121. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> It's not useful to engage partisans
  122. [15:49] <+DeckrdR> imo
  123. [15:49] <+RachelThompson> I would support the criminal prosecution of Clinton, though Comey made an interesting argument
  124. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> I obviously support the immediate impeachment of Trump and his criminal prosecution
  125. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> (There are at least 4-5 major reasons why)
  126. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Here's what happened
  127. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> You tried a gambit
  128. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> You, as a partisan, assumed I was a partisan
  129. [15:50] <+RachelThompson> So you brought up the red herring of Clinton
  130. [15:51] <+RachelThompson> Now that I have stated I support her criminal prosecution, you're nowhere to be found
  131. [15:51] <+mugz> RachelThompson first I distroyed your argument about Trump's meeting with the Russians, dont forget that part :)
  132. [15:51] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Our nation isn't going to survive if we can't put country above party or self on at least some issues
  133. [15:51] * mugz bows
  134. [15:51] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Do you think we should put country above party or self on any issues?
  135. [15:52] <+sexb> I have terminated this conversation with both of you.
  136. [15:52] <+mugz> RachelThompson and I never did get to say "neener neener neener" on your other fake news claim that Comey had requested addtional assets to persue the Russia investingation
  137. [15:52] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Do you think we should put country above party or self on any issues?
  138. [15:52] <+RachelThompson> For example, would you support securing our voting machines so foreign powers can't interfere with them?
  139. [15:53] <+mugz> lol
  140. [15:53] <+mugz> RachelThompson you swallow every bit of fake news click bait that comes along :)
  141. [15:53] <@Ross> is neener neerner neener the same as i told you so
  142. [15:53] <+RachelThompson> Also, would you support campaign finance reform to disallow foreign money from being involved in our elections?
  143. [15:53] <+mugz> Ross yes :)
  144. [15:53] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Do you think we should put country above party or self on any issues?
  145. [15:53] <+RachelThompson> Also, would you support campaign finance reform to disallow foreign money from being involved in our elections?
  146. [15:53] <+RachelThompson> mugz: If it was shown that a foreign power donated money to the Democrats or Republicans, would you work with me to block that?
  147. [15:54] <+RachelThompson> I guess not
  148. [15:55] <+mugz> RachelThompson there has been foreign invovlment in our elections for decads, and the USA does more of that than any nation on the planet
  149. [15:55] == kissa [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout]
  150. [15:55] == mode/#ChristianDebate [+l 64] by QRT
  151. [15:55] <@Ross> i think gvt should serve the ppl instead of the ppl serving the gvt
  152. [15:55] <+mugz> RachelThompson the Russians merely exposed how the Clinton campaign used the DNC to maniputlate votes against Bernie Sanders
  153. [15:55] <+RachelThompson> As a fellow American citizen I'm asking you if you'll work with me help secure our country above party politics, at least some of the time
  154. [15:55] <+mugz> if in fact it was the Russians
  155. [15:55] <+RachelThompson> And you're screaming "fake news" repeatedly
  156. [15:55] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Would you like to work with me to help prevent the Russians involving themselves in our elections?
  157. [15:55] <+RachelThompson> If it was in fact the Russians
  158. [15:56] <+mugz> RachelThompson God forbid the truth should be known :P
  159. [15:56] <+mugz> those evil Russians, exposing the truth like that :P
  160. [15:56] <+Mickey52> Fake news is what the Russians and Donald Trump used to influence voters in many midwest states.
  161. [15:56] <@Ross> lets abolish gvt and go completely lawless for 6 months
  162. [15:56] <+RachelThompson> mugz: Are you saying you support Russians hacking our political parties?
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