From https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,4453,page=666

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 02, 2019 11:53PM

Hello, sorry for the lack of long contact. The issue of writing here was not an easy thing. And for now I will comment sporadically.

I will also add briefly that the motto of my action are the words I address especially to Mr. Midget:

"The right to truth and justice deprives you of the right to comfortable self-justification or group self-justification"

I don't even want to go beyond fact and truth for 0.1 millimeter.


VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello DaWatcher, pleased to finally hear from a
> former Polish devotee.
> I just have a few questions for you, if I may?

> Were the Polish devotees obligated, coerced or
> shamed into sending money to Butler? Were they
> also condemned if something went wrong for Butler
> and were they fined (forced to send money) as the
> American devotees were?

From the perspective of a uninitiated member of the group (and a number of things were hidden before such members or, for example, they were not invited to the so-called initiated meetings) it looked something like this:

It was understandable that donating supports the Guru mission. Personally, however, I have not heard that there was a request to send funds abroad, to Hawaii. However, there was such an expectation for initiates, understood as a guru-daksin, but the controversy was the fact that 50% of revenues in Polish realities is unrealistic, when the cost of living can be in the order of e.g. 75% especially for people without a certified education, permanent work etc. due to the large number of time spent at the center.

However, from the accounts of another former member of SIF Poland, I heard that this expectation was verbalized around 2008 and 2009, which was supposed to lead a number of people to leave SIF Poland or make great confusion.

> How many kids did you witness working without pay?
> I witnessed many of the kids forced to work for
> Butler on several occasions. They called it
> "devotional service" which was, in fact, unpaid
> slave labor.


Personally, I have not witnessed kids working without pay. It must be said that Catholic upbringing or academic education has often obstructed submission or the desire to reproduce the strange behavior of the leaders of SIF Poland.

A large part of the activity was associated with socially beneficial things, such as participation in social campaigns, cooking meals at charity events.

However, i have knowledge about activities done for the businessess abroad, let say looking like an exclusive one, where people engaged in it did not know if it was "material" or "spiritual" activity and the issue of gratification was never raised. What's more, those involved paid for the premises themselves, there was also a moment where they had nothing to eat and the issue of self-earning was also unclear, especially that one of the charismatic leaders highlighted the issue of uncompetitiveness at the time. uncompetitiveness


> It was usually involving one or other
> of the many businesses that Butler had set up for
> profit. Nothing was ever in his nanme, of course.
> He had a convenient foil- they called it the Wai
> Lana Yoga gimmick.

We did not know exactly the material conditions on the site.

Personally, until 2017, I didn't even know that Chris Butler had a step son. Only daughters were mentioned.


> Did the Polish devotees ever receive - from
> Hawaii- the special prasadam packages? Each
> box guaranteed (especially in the 1990's) to
> contain TOENAILS?

In the 90's it was possible - I remember such idea. There was no determination on either side to give or receive. Later they were sweets, old clothes which were accepted.


> Do you know, by any chance, how many kids were
> seriously injured or died, due to parental
> neglect? The parents were usually too busy to
> care for their children--they were serving the
> Master.

There was an event where, in turn, the two children of one of the members died, it was a social scandal, while he was a recluse, he seemed to have a bizarre view and this matter is a mystery to me.


> There was never any question in my mind that
> children were abused & neglected in one form or
> another in this cult.

Generally, having children was percepted rather like a lack of spiritual advancement.

What is shock for example for me that: Tulsi Gabbard is initiated, supports abortion, when in Poland in the 90s they would burn you at the stake for eating a cake with the wrong ingredient, e.g. E120