The Black Godfather (2019)

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This is Bill's new album.

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Is it your first album you've done?

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Yeah, that was my first singing, period,
anywhere.

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I didn't sing before.

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I... I was into another thing altogether.

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What did you do before you sang?

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Well, I had been in the Navy
for nine years,

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and then I got out
and I worked in aircraft.

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I made toilets for 747 aircraft.

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One of the reasons I'm here is that...

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I met Clarence Avant.

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I have a lot of respect for Clarence.

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What he's done is a very unusual story.

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That's why we're sitting here talking.

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He puts people together.

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And they do what they do.

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How do you put together a life...

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from knowing people?

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I've never seen him with a tool.

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His tools...

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are his...

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you know, ability to...

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manipulate people.

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I don't mean that in a bad way,
necessarily.

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And if he needs to do it in a bad way,

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he's probably good at that, too, you know?

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Meet Clarence Avant.

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Clarence's name kept coming up.

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Who is this guy
that I keep hearing about?

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<i>♪ My friend</i> s<i>... ♪</i>

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His name would come up, Clarence Avant.

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Say Clarence Avant's name,
and the doors open,

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and the seas part.

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Oh, man. He was too fly.
You understand me?

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He talked the talk, walked the walk,
dressed the part. Played it, you know?

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<i>♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪</i>

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<i>♪ Until you use me up</i>...<i> ♪</i>

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Clarence knew everyone.

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- Everybody.
- Everybody.

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He's a celebrity's celebrity.

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<i>♪ My brother</i>...<i> ♪</i>

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Writers, with singers,

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with record companies,
with business deals...

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He was just all over the place.

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He was in the mix.

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He finds a common ground

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between people who are different.

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This mysterious figure...

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that everybody respected.

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Like, a person from the street
to the White House, he was known.

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One of the things he understands

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is there are different kinds of power.

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There's the power
that needs the spotlight,

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but there's also the power
that comes from being behind the scenes.

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He wasn't there, but he was right there.

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<i>♪ If you only knew
You'd wish that you were in my shoes ♪</i>

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<i>♪ You just keep on using me</i>...<i> ♪</i>

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Clarence Avant is a complete original.

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A badass and a legend.

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He's a very incisive thinker.

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A historian and a maker of history.

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That's who Clarence is.

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Clarence Avant,

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from a two-room schoolhouse
in North Carolina

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to the boardrooms of Motown,
and MGM, and everyplace.

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James Brown told me,
"White folks just, you know, respect him.

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They scared of that nigga.
Scared of him."

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<i>♪ Oh, you get in a crowd
Of high class people... ♪</i>

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His advice, per word,

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is probably worth more
than just about anybody I ever dealt with.

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You knew if you were making a deal
with Clarence, there was something there.

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You always got the truth from Clarence.
You got it straight. You got it quick.

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I don't know anybody else like Clarence.

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Clarence is the final word.

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He became that mentor for us all.

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He became that godfather.

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<i>The godfather.</i>

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<i>Clarence is the godfather.</i>

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<i>♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪</i>

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<i>♪ Until you use me up ♪</i>

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I can't make speeches.

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That's not my... That's not my life.

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I make deals.

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This is interesting.

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Absolutely no fucker's giving me
a check...

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for doing this. I might say anything now.

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That's the goal.

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Well, no. Then I'm gonna...
I'mma say I don't know anything.

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Mm-hm. Fortunately, there's other people
who will tell us stories as well.

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You don't know anybody
who can tell my story.

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Yeah, well, I don't know about that.

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Clarence is one of my favorite guys.

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I think Clarence exemplifies...

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a certain...

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...cool,

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a certain level of street smarts
and savvy...

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that allowed him to move
into worlds that...

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nobody had prepared him for

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and say, "I can figure this out."

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Do you remember the first time
someone ever said you're the godfather?

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People call me that.
People can call me anything.

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People have called me a son of a bitch,
so what? That's part of life.

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I was managing a club
in Newark, New Jersey.

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Teddy Powell's Lounge.

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Teddy was a concert promoter.

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He had Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson,
people like that.

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Teddy Powell was a legend.

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So these legends...
He was like a sponge.

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He absorbed the best of everybody he saw.

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I was in my 20s, I guess.

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So, Joseph G. Glaser came in one day,

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and he owned a company
called Associated Booking.

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He represented Dinah Washington.

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And Dinah was rough.

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So Mr. Glaser heard me argue with her,

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and he was laughing, so...

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And he wanted me to be an agent.

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He said, "You're a great salesman."
What did I want to be an agent for?

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You know, Clarence was a guy who...

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wasn't looking for the job
he ended up with.

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I said how the fuck was I gonna be
a goddamn agent,

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and writing reports up
and all that shit, and...

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You know, that's not my life.

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Not at all.

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But he, um, he's the guy
that really made Louis Armstrong.

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Joe Glaser was
Louis Armstrong's agent, manager, and...

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You know, they were together
for virtually all of Louis' life.

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He managed Dave Brubeck,
Duke Ellington, Sarah Vaughan,

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and Billie Holiday.

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He had a lot of acts.

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And he talked Clarence into getting
into show business as a manager.

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Joe Glaser was tough...

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He was a tough guy.

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Joe was connected.

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They were all Al Capone's folks.

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Prohibition creates

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the modern entertainment business
in America.

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The underworld creates

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a network of restaurants, speakeasies,
places where you can get drinks,

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and they provide entertainment.

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So, when Prohibition was repealed,

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the structure created
by Prohibition remained.

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Now we have all this talent,
and they need management.

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And so, the gangsters
who were involved with the speakeasy world

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are still there, and now
there's a legitimate business to be run.

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I was too young
to know about Al Capone.

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The fuck did I care
about Al Capone, man?

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I mean, shit.
I wasn't worried about nothing like that.

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No, I don't ask Mr. Glaser questions.

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I just learned from him.

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I think we had, at one time,

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about 70% of all the black talent
in America to book.

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They owned everything:
the booking agencies,

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the publishing companies,
record companies, and the clubs.

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Business people...

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Not mafia. It's business.

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Oh, please.

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Please, Clarence.

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Somebody was holding a guy by his heels

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- out of the window,
- Remember that.

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and his overcoat fell all over his head.
And I said, "What's going on up there?"

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They said, "Jackie Wilson's trying
to renegotiate his contract."

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- True story. Nat Tarnopol.
- It's true.

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Those were some heavy days, man.

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True.

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Yeah, I used to
walk Joe Glaser home at night.

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We would talk about people
who came in the office,

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how bright they were
or how dumb they were.

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Did they belong with us?

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Um, did... did we want to be around them?

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And Clarence was one of the favorite guys.

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Clarence was an honorable,
decent, hardworking guy

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who tried to do the right thing.

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And, you know, in the agency business,
with managers and people like that,

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it's hard to find
a person quite like that.

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I think that Joe recognized this
about Clarence

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and thought, "This is a guy
who should be looking out for artists."

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I think that possibly, culturally,
the guy was smart enough to think,

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"You know, if I'm gonna have
all of these great artists,

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Louis Armstrong and Sarah Vaughan,

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wouldn't it be great
to have an African American,

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or a black, or a Negro...
or whatever we were at that time...

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uh, be, you know, a conduit for them?"

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Clarence became the manager
of Little Willie John,

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and later on, Jimmy Smith.

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The thing I was always
most impressed about Clarence with...

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was that he once represented Jimmy Smith.

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The greatest jazz organist who ever lived
by a country mile.

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Jimmy Smith was a genius with the organ.

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He was a creative guy,

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but a character.

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Very eccentric.

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Quincy and I became friends

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because after Jimmy made
that "Walk on the Wild Side,"

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everybody wanted Jimmy.

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The first time we met,
I had just convinced Philips Records

197
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to start a record label called EmArcy.

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We gave $100,000 to Dizzy Gillespie,

199
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to Art Blakey,

200
00:10:07,857 --> 00:10:09,692
to Gerry Mulligan, to Cannonball,

201
00:10:09,775 --> 00:10:10,818
to Clark Terry, et cetera.

202
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And so Clarence came in,
and he wanted $450,000 for Jimmy Smith.

203
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And I said, "Wait a minute, man.
You gotta be crazy, man.

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You're smoking something!"

205
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And he went out and got half of that.

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He didn't get 450,

207
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but he got half of that from Creed Taylor.

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We were on then.

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What was your
first impression of Clarence?

210
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Can't put that on camera.

211
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No.

212
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No, it was love at first sight. It was.

213
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And respect.

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It's a tremendous respect,
'cause he has no BS in him.

215
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Not a drop.

216
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It's having that person
that you can...

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really count on.

218
00:10:50,858 --> 00:10:52,985
I mean, they really count on each other,
you know.

219
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If you talk to Quincy about, you know,
Clarence,

220
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"Man, shit, man,
Clarence is a son of a bitch, baby.

221
00:10:57,948 --> 00:10:59,325
He's a true gangster, man."

222
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Now he used to...
Quincy'd go off on a tangent.

223
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"Yeah, man. Shit. Him, Sinatra, baby,
that was shit."

224
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You could never get him in the corner.
Mm-mmm.

225
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That's part of the game, man.

226
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If you don't ask, you don't get.

227
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Life is about one thing: numbers.
Nothing else.

228
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What did Tina Turner say?

229
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"What's love got to do with it?"
Not a fucking thing, man.

230
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That's why I tell people, life begins
with a numberand it ends with a number.

231
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Love ain't got nothing to do with shit.

232
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It's all about numbers. Nothing else.

233
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I had a manager,

234
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and he had his offices in Carnegie Hall.

235
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Every now and then,
I would just walk to the window

236
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and stand there and just watch life go by.

237
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And one morning,

238
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I looked across the street,
and there was this man...

239
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Now mind you,
this man was dressed to the nines.

240
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Do you hear me?

241
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And so, he would come,
and he would stand in the entryway,

242
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and he would look north,

243
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and he would look south,

244
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and then he straightened out
his shoulders,

245
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he took his bag,

246
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and he stepped out of that building,
and down Seventh Avenue he went.

247
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And he was this color!

248
00:12:33,294 --> 00:12:34,295
Do you hear me?

249
00:12:34,378 --> 00:12:37,673
Oh, my God.
I'd never seen anything quite like it.

250
00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:42,386
Every description of Clarence,
he was one of those guys.

251
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:44,180
He was a man about town,

252
00:12:44,263 --> 00:12:47,224
he was all in the clubs,
he knew all the cool people.

253
00:12:48,642 --> 00:12:50,311
I took him to the Copacabana...

254
00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:52,855
With Lena.

255
00:12:53,898 --> 00:12:56,984
And we went backstage
to try to get Diana Ross.

256
00:12:57,777 --> 00:12:59,862
And they said, "Miss Ross is resting."

257
00:13:00,613 --> 00:13:03,908
I said, "Resting my butt, man.
Lena Horne's out there. Get out here."

258
00:13:04,575 --> 00:13:07,787
Clarence had
a little bit too much lemonade that night.

259
00:13:09,371 --> 00:13:12,291
He had to get a cab
to carry me into my apartment,

260
00:13:12,374 --> 00:13:14,251
15 West 72nd Street.

261
00:13:14,668 --> 00:13:16,378
I was drunk for two days, man.

262
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,256
I ain't been drunk since.

263
00:13:19,423 --> 00:13:21,050
- Oh, please.
- No, I haven't!

264
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:23,333
- Oh, please.
- That's why I put ice in my wine.

265
00:13:26,305 --> 00:13:27,973
When I was dating Clarence,

266
00:13:28,474 --> 00:13:29,600
there were so many,

267
00:13:29,683 --> 00:13:32,728
you know, interesting places,
restaurants, and people.

268
00:13:32,978 --> 00:13:35,189
And we would visit, like, Harry Belafonte.

269
00:13:35,272 --> 00:13:37,191
It was, I mean,
it was one thing after another.

270
00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:41,111
<i>♪ I love you, I love you
Baby, I love you</i>...<i> ♪</i>

271
00:13:41,195 --> 00:13:43,781
At one time, Jackie modeled
for Ebony Fashion Fair.

272
00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:49,286
Ebony Fashion Fair
was a tour that would bring high fashion

273
00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:50,412
to black neighborhoods.

274
00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:52,766
The Ebony Fashion Fair models
were, like, the first models

275
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:54,667
that black people really saw
on the runway.

276
00:13:54,750 --> 00:13:58,587
So, for a black guy in 1960-something,
a Fashion Fair model was, like,

277
00:13:59,171 --> 00:14:00,256
a big deal.

278
00:14:01,048 --> 00:14:03,884
When Jackie met me,
I got into Birdland free.

279
00:14:03,968 --> 00:14:08,389
I got into the best restaurants, you know,
because you knew certain people,

280
00:14:08,472 --> 00:14:10,140
you know, like Mr. Glaser.

281
00:14:10,224 --> 00:14:11,225
You know, hey!

282
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,359
He'd always have a car pick me up.

283
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:18,190
And I thought, "Who is this guy?"

284
00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:21,902
And then one day,
I guess he was really trying to get...

285
00:14:23,153 --> 00:14:23,988
win me over.

286
00:14:24,071 --> 00:14:26,699
And for some reason, he mentioned...

287
00:14:27,324 --> 00:14:29,535
how much he had paid
the Internal Revenue Service.

288
00:14:29,618 --> 00:14:32,204
"Okay, so if you paid them that much,
that must mean that..."

289
00:14:32,288 --> 00:14:34,248
Guess he was trying to tell me
how much he made.

290
00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:37,185
Hey, I told you. Life begins
with a number, and it ends with a number.

291
00:14:37,209 --> 00:14:39,396
- Thought it was important.
- Life's about numbers.

292
00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,175
I had been on a tour with Jimmy Smith

293
00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:47,469
and Dizzy Gillespie.

294
00:14:51,056 --> 00:14:53,559
That's where Lalo was playing the piano.

295
00:14:57,938 --> 00:15:01,233
Pianist, composer,
and arranger of Dizzy Gillespie.

296
00:15:01,817 --> 00:15:04,236
We were touring around the world.

297
00:15:08,574 --> 00:15:10,534
And so, when I get back,

298
00:15:11,118 --> 00:15:14,288
Mr. Glaser come into his office.
"I'm sending you to California."

299
00:15:14,538 --> 00:15:15,538
I said, "For what?"

300
00:15:15,998 --> 00:15:20,252
"This piano player
with Dizzy wants to be in the movies."

301
00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:23,797
Because when you got into TV
and television,

302
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:26,008
there was big money.

303
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,554
And Mr. Glaser thought
Lalo had what it takes.

304
00:15:32,222 --> 00:15:34,433
And what am I gonna do
with a white composer?

305
00:15:34,808 --> 00:15:37,019
He said, "The same god damn thing.
You heard, Negro.

306
00:15:37,144 --> 00:15:38,938
Get the fuck outta here and go to work."

307
00:15:39,897 --> 00:15:42,524
I really didn't know nothing
about movies, man,

308
00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:43,984
and television, shit.

309
00:15:44,568 --> 00:15:46,779
Mr. Glaser said, "Don't worry about that."

310
00:15:47,529 --> 00:15:50,407
And I met every head of every studio.

311
00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:52,951
He knew everybody,

312
00:15:52,993 --> 00:15:58,248
but he knew the head
of music publishing of MGM.

313
00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:01,377
And he... Right away, he got me a movie.
Right there.

314
00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:05,005
Clarence ran the ship for Lalo.

315
00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:10,177
I'm sure that a lot of white people
were very surprised

316
00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:12,304
when Mr. Schifrin showed up
with his manager.

317
00:16:12,388 --> 00:16:15,516
They probably thought he was his valet
or his driver.

318
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,689
You know, Lalo did over 100 films.

319
00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:24,108
Over 100 fucking films.

320
00:16:26,902 --> 00:16:29,738
Bruce Lee,
he liked my music so much,

321
00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,533
he offered to teach me martial arts.

322
00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:35,285
He made me build a dojo in my house.

323
00:16:35,953 --> 00:16:37,496
I became a black belt.

324
00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:42,459
Lalo's probably the main guy

325
00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:45,879
who set him up in the publishing world,

326
00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:49,925
where he learned
that a copyright is a gold mine.

327
00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:06,358
I had told Quincy,

328
00:17:07,735 --> 00:17:10,320
"I'll never get married,
never live in California."

329
00:17:11,739 --> 00:17:13,115
Well, Jackie got pregnant.

330
00:17:14,408 --> 00:17:18,120
So I took her out to see my mother
in Summit, New Jersey,

331
00:17:18,203 --> 00:17:19,955
where I'd bought my mother a house.

332
00:17:20,456 --> 00:17:22,416
I remember him calling her
while we were dating,

333
00:17:22,499 --> 00:17:24,376
and he would always refer to her
as Gert.

334
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:28,547
And his mother gave a beautiful tea
for me at her home.

335
00:17:29,131 --> 00:17:30,507
My mother took me in the kitchen,

336
00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:33,191
and she was talking to me.
She said, "Boy, what's wrong with you?"

337
00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:35,237
I said, "I ain't ready to get married."

338
00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:37,102
She said,
"You used to ask me about your daddy,

339
00:17:37,139 --> 00:17:39,459
and now you talkin' about
you ain't gonna marry that girl?"

340
00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:42,144
We got married.

341
00:17:44,354 --> 00:17:45,355
And then...

342
00:17:46,648 --> 00:17:47,900
moved to California.

343
00:17:53,155 --> 00:17:54,448
When he came to LA,

344
00:17:54,531 --> 00:17:58,786
it was like, he was starting his life
all over again with Jackie.

345
00:17:58,869 --> 00:18:00,329
He was changing his life.

346
00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:03,248
♪ <i>California soul...</i> ♪

347
00:18:04,041 --> 00:18:07,294
I was just looking for a house
'cause Mr. Glaser told me to find a house.

348
00:18:07,377 --> 00:18:09,088
Baldwin Hills was the shit.

349
00:18:09,213 --> 00:18:12,091
Ray Charles and Nancy Wilson lived there.

350
00:18:12,174 --> 00:18:13,717
Everybody lived in Baldwin Hills.

351
00:18:14,218 --> 00:18:16,804
So one day, Mr. Glaser came out.

352
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:19,264
"Looking for a house?"
"Yes, sir."

353
00:18:19,348 --> 00:18:20,933
"Where?" "Baldwin Hills."

354
00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:23,777
"Where the fuck's Baldwin Hills?"
I said, "That's where Negroes live."

355
00:18:24,394 --> 00:18:27,898
Back then, there were no Negroes living
in Beverly Hills.

356
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,359
But he said,
"You find a house in Beverly."

357
00:18:30,442 --> 00:18:33,070
I said, "Sorry, I can't afford it."
"I didn't ask you that."

358
00:18:33,737 --> 00:18:34,780
Found a house.

359
00:18:34,863 --> 00:18:37,324
♪ <i>California soul...</i> ♪

360
00:18:38,158 --> 00:18:40,744
Glaser is the one who bought the house.

361
00:18:40,828 --> 00:18:44,373
Of course, I borrowed the money from him.
Didn't have no fuckin' money.

362
00:18:44,957 --> 00:18:47,376
I had a few dollars, but not like that.

363
00:18:47,459 --> 00:18:49,920
He was dealing with all the studio heads

364
00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:51,463
in the old days.

365
00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:54,341
And got away with it.

366
00:18:54,508 --> 00:18:57,386
He's just fearless, man.
Absolutely fearless.

367
00:18:57,469 --> 00:18:59,229
I remember all those guys
were talking about,

368
00:18:59,304 --> 00:19:00,639
"The man's holding me back."

369
00:19:00,722 --> 00:19:03,809
He was in there talking to Lew Wasserman,
the mofo.

370
00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,729
And meeting with him
and getting things done.

371
00:19:09,439 --> 00:19:11,984
Lew created the agenting system,

372
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,236
you know. And ran the studio.

373
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,030
And Clarence understood
the power in connectivity

374
00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:18,907
and the power in relationships.

375
00:19:19,908 --> 00:19:21,468
Lew Wasserman was a good friend.

376
00:19:23,036 --> 00:19:25,455
I used to meet with him,
just the two of us, have lunch.

377
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:27,624
Whatever time he had a fund-raiser
or something,

378
00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:29,418
he'd call. "Clarence, I need you."

379
00:19:30,419 --> 00:19:33,964
Most of the fund-raisers were held
at Lew Wasserman's house.

380
00:19:34,173 --> 00:19:36,842
And I would always see Clarence

381
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:38,218
at those events.

382
00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:41,722
Was he the only black person
at these events?

383
00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:45,434
I'm... saddened to tell you

384
00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:47,227
that that may be the case.

385
00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:51,315
Clarence has that something
where he can connect with...

386
00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:53,274
everyone.

387
00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:54,650
And he has.

388
00:19:55,068 --> 00:19:56,862
He came a long way

389
00:19:57,696 --> 00:19:58,906
in a short time.

390
00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:02,868
Lalo worked a lot for David Wolper.

391
00:20:02,951 --> 00:20:05,621
David Wolper did documentaries.

392
00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:10,334
So... I get a call
from Mr. Glaser one day.

393
00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,127
"You gotta go meet Art Modell."

394
00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:13,670
"Who the fuck is Art Modell?"

395
00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:16,314
"He owns the Cleveland Browns."
"What do I want to meet him for?"

396
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:19,092
"Well, your friend David Wolper
wants to do a documentary.

397
00:20:19,176 --> 00:20:21,303
And there's a guy who plays
for the Cleveland Browns

398
00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:24,348
named Jim Brown. Doesn't want to be
in the documentary.

399
00:20:24,932 --> 00:20:26,350
You gotta convince him."

400
00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,686
Jim Brown was a football player.
He's a running back,

401
00:20:29,937 --> 00:20:32,272
who is as big as anybody on the line.

402
00:20:32,356 --> 00:20:34,107
And if you watch film of Jim Brown,

403
00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:36,777
he's just brutalizing people.

404
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:40,280
<i>Number 32, Jimmy Brown,
makes tissue paper of the Giant line.</i>

405
00:20:40,364 --> 00:20:42,032
<i>There's no stopping the great man.</i>

406
00:20:42,115 --> 00:20:45,702
<i>He sets the Cleveland team on fire,
and it's a five-alarm blaze!</i>

407
00:20:48,413 --> 00:20:51,583
You have this guy called Clarence Avant...

408
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:55,128
that everybody's talking about,

409
00:20:55,963 --> 00:20:57,923
but nobody seems to understand

410
00:20:58,006 --> 00:21:00,926
just exactly what his official title was.

411
00:21:01,009 --> 00:21:03,553
I couldn't tell you now exactly what he<i>...</i>

412
00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:05,555
Was he an agent, a manager, a lawyer?

413
00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:08,558
...what he was.

414
00:21:08,642 --> 00:21:11,812
And so, we're talking.
"You wanna be in the movies?"

415
00:21:12,562 --> 00:21:13,647
He just looked at me.

416
00:21:14,856 --> 00:21:16,858
"Yeah. You own a record label?"

417
00:21:17,901 --> 00:21:20,904
I guess he said,
"Who the eff is this schmuck?"

418
00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:25,993
He had a definitive... personality.

419
00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:28,120
You know, he was Clarence,

420
00:21:28,954 --> 00:21:31,665
and he wasn't gonna be no different
than that.

421
00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:34,084
And he had his way of operating.

422
00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:36,670
And I liked that.

423
00:21:37,671 --> 00:21:40,340
We put him into movies,
which he did.

424
00:21:40,465 --> 00:21:42,926
One of the big films was <i>The Dirty Dozen.</i>

425
00:21:43,010 --> 00:21:45,345
<i>Jimmy Brown as Napoleon Jefferson.</i>

426
00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:48,890
<i>"Jefferson is any man fighting
for recognition against the odds,"</i>

427
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,019
<i>says Brown.
"I think I understand him pretty well."</i>

428
00:21:52,853 --> 00:21:54,021
<i>He was a presence.</i>

429
00:21:54,104 --> 00:21:56,773
<i>There was something so credible about him.
He filled the screen.</i>

430
00:22:00,527 --> 00:22:02,588
Clarence was a guy
that you really had to see

431
00:22:02,612 --> 00:22:04,781
to put certain kinds of deals together.

432
00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:07,367
Woman, what're they looking at?

433
00:22:08,827 --> 00:22:10,996
It's the first time
they've seen a black man before.

434
00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:14,416
I became the first black actor

435
00:22:14,499 --> 00:22:16,501
that had a love scene

436
00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:19,671
with a white actress,
which was Raquel Welch.

437
00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:22,650
He does this movie
with Raquel Welch, 100 <i>Rifles,</i>

438
00:22:22,674 --> 00:22:26,094
and there's a picture of Raquel Welch
with her arms around his big, black chest.

439
00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:27,846
People are like, "Whoa!"

440
00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:29,431
I got threats.

441
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:34,311
America was not indulging
with interracial love scenes

442
00:22:34,394 --> 00:22:36,605
on their... silver screen.

443
00:22:38,648 --> 00:22:41,610
These values
that America said it believed in...

444
00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:44,654
were not being manifested for us.

445
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,866
Jim Crow was everywhere,
racism was everywhere.

446
00:22:48,992 --> 00:22:50,494
It's a very heavy time.

447
00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:53,205
It's a time of great conflict.

448
00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:55,082
I never marched.

449
00:22:56,541 --> 00:22:58,168
If I got hit, I'd hit back.

450
00:22:58,668 --> 00:22:59,711
I'd be dead now.

451
00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:05,759
There were so many question marks
at that particular time, racially,

452
00:23:06,134 --> 00:23:09,012
and Hollywood had its own power base,

453
00:23:09,763 --> 00:23:11,431
and here was...

454
00:23:12,432 --> 00:23:15,018
an African-American man in Hollywood

455
00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:18,271
that was defying
what Hollywood was supposed to be.

456
00:23:19,523 --> 00:23:23,402
I don't let nothing get in my way
about anything that I wanna do.

457
00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:24,653
That's the way I think.

458
00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:28,115
People say, "Where'd you go to college?"
College?

459
00:23:28,865 --> 00:23:31,118
Shit. Ninth grade is as far as I got.

460
00:23:31,993 --> 00:23:34,413
I learned a lot
from a guy called Joe Glaser.

461
00:23:35,038 --> 00:23:36,038
A lot.

462
00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,001
When Mr. Glaser died,

463
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:42,838
I told Jackie, "We have to move."
'Cause I owed them money.

464
00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:46,299
One month goes by, three months go by,
the fourth month...

465
00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:48,969
Mr. Korshak called.

466
00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:51,638
"Clarence." "Yes, sir."

467
00:23:51,721 --> 00:23:53,390
"Your loan is forgiven." Hung up.

468
00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:56,768
I don't have problems.

469
00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:58,812
I have friends.

470
00:24:03,984 --> 00:24:06,236
It's almost like he took a situation...

471
00:24:06,903 --> 00:24:10,407
and saw there was a lot of power
in this situation...

472
00:24:10,657 --> 00:24:11,950
and decided,

473
00:24:12,576 --> 00:24:14,202
"Okay, I landed here,

474
00:24:14,744 --> 00:24:17,831
and I'm gonna take everything here
that's here

475
00:24:17,914 --> 00:24:20,125
on this little island
that I just landed on,

476
00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:22,586
and I'm going to use it for good,

477
00:24:22,669 --> 00:24:24,349
and I'm gonna use it to lift up my people,

478
00:24:24,379 --> 00:24:26,179
and I'm going to use it
to push down barriers,

479
00:24:26,214 --> 00:24:29,718
and I'm gonna use it to open doors,
and I'm gonna use it for the right thing.

480
00:24:29,801 --> 00:24:31,428
I'm gonna use it for justice."

481
00:24:32,012 --> 00:24:35,265
He got involved in wanting to be
an entrepreneur in his own right.

482
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:40,896
So in 1970, I launched Sussex Records.

483
00:24:42,606 --> 00:24:45,835
Clarence is very proud of the name.
I don't know if he's mentioned it to you.

484
00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:48,320
The two things people want more.

485
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:50,070
Think about it.

486
00:24:51,573 --> 00:24:54,242
Success and sex, what else is new?

487
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,789
"Success," that means suc... sex... sex?

488
00:25:02,542 --> 00:25:03,376
Shit!

489
00:25:05,795 --> 00:25:07,380
Success and sex.

490
00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,567
Sound like something him and Quincy
was talking about high.

491
00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:15,388
He goes his own way.

492
00:25:15,472 --> 00:25:17,516
He doesn't feel the need...

493
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,686
to fold himself into a pretzel
to be popular.

494
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:23,980
He just, you know...

495
00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:26,733
m... moved to his own drum beat.

496
00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:30,237
Over the course of between,
like, '68 and '71 or '72,

497
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,365
Motown basically moved from Detroit to LA.

498
00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:37,702
And so, Clarence opening Sussex
in LA in the early '70s...

499
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:39,538
He's in the moment

500
00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:43,375
where LA is becoming the new center
of black commercial music.

501
00:25:44,709 --> 00:25:48,922
I was involved with him
on his formation of Sussex music.

502
00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,926
At that time, I can't think
of very many black entrepreneurs

503
00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:55,595
in the rock and roll business,

504
00:25:55,679 --> 00:25:58,390
let alone on the true business side

505
00:25:58,473 --> 00:25:59,683
of the music scene.

506
00:25:59,766 --> 00:26:01,851
And Clarence was one of those kinda guys.

507
00:26:02,143 --> 00:26:04,455
I didn't want anybody to tell me
who I had to sign,

508
00:26:04,479 --> 00:26:07,399
so I... the first artist
I signed was Dennis Coffey.

509
00:26:07,649 --> 00:26:09,859
- The first 45 I ever bought.
- Really?

510
00:26:09,943 --> 00:26:12,487
I gave you money
from the first time I had some money.

511
00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,656
I spent my allowance on that.

512
00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:15,949
- You did?
- Yes.

513
00:26:16,032 --> 00:26:17,158
Bullshit.

514
00:26:19,202 --> 00:26:23,707
Dennis Coffey,
the Detroit Guitar Band, and "Scorpio."

515
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,547
And I had no idea...

516
00:26:32,215 --> 00:26:33,717
that Dennis Coffey was white.

517
00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:41,349
It just was a funky, funky, funky record.

518
00:26:43,226 --> 00:26:45,507
"Scorpio" went to number one
on the black charts,

519
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:48,732
and then the black DJs found out

520
00:26:48,815 --> 00:26:50,650
that Dennis Coffey was white...

521
00:26:52,235 --> 00:26:54,070
and were very upset,
and they called my father

522
00:26:54,154 --> 00:26:56,281
and said,
"You didn't tell us he was white.

523
00:26:56,364 --> 00:26:57,574
We didn't know he was white."

524
00:26:57,657 --> 00:27:00,076
My dad said,
"Who gives a shit what he is? It's music."

525
00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:04,664
It speaks to the fact
that Sussex wasn't a stereotypical label.

526
00:27:05,749 --> 00:27:08,376
Everybody wanted to be Berry Gordy.

527
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,420
But I changed that around.

528
00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:12,464
So what I did,

529
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:15,592
instead of going with black acts,

530
00:27:16,217 --> 00:27:17,677
I had white acts.

531
00:27:18,345 --> 00:27:19,345
Wednesday,

532
00:27:19,721 --> 00:27:21,723
Wadsworth Mansion,

533
00:27:21,806 --> 00:27:23,600
the Gallery. The Gallery had a record

534
00:27:23,683 --> 00:27:26,394
called "It's So Nice to Be with You."
Number one.

535
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:29,856
<i>♪ Ah, it's so nice to be with you ♪</i>

536
00:27:29,939 --> 00:27:33,568
<i>♪ I love all the things you say and do ♪</i>

537
00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:35,692
There was nobody else
doing anything like that

538
00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:36,780
in those days.

539
00:27:36,863 --> 00:27:40,575
A black-owned label
that had all these different things.

540
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:42,160
That's the unorthodox Clarence,

541
00:27:42,243 --> 00:27:44,803
not gonna follow a script,
not gonna do what he's supposed to do,

542
00:27:44,871 --> 00:27:46,164
not gonna do what's expected.

543
00:27:48,291 --> 00:27:52,754
I met Rodriguez
by way of Dennis Coffey, and...

544
00:27:54,172 --> 00:27:56,716
I liked his music. Liked his sound.

545
00:27:58,593 --> 00:28:00,595
He saw the world was a bigger place.

546
00:28:01,221 --> 00:28:03,890
He's saying that there are so many voices
that ought to be heard,

547
00:28:03,973 --> 00:28:06,267
I want everybody to hear what I hear
in these voices.

548
00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:11,564
He was one of my favorite artists.

549
00:28:11,648 --> 00:28:12,941
But you couldn't give it away.

550
00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:16,027
It took 40-some years.

551
00:28:17,153 --> 00:28:19,239
And it started in South Africa.

552
00:28:19,823 --> 00:28:23,660
So, long after Sixto cut his records
in Detroit for Clarence,

553
00:28:23,743 --> 00:28:26,121
and everyone thought
it was over and done with,

554
00:28:26,204 --> 00:28:29,290
he developed this cult following
in South Africa.

555
00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:31,973
South Africa is under apartheid.

556
00:28:32,043 --> 00:28:33,920
They ban the album.

557
00:28:34,003 --> 00:28:35,064
The government literally...

558
00:28:35,088 --> 00:28:38,007
It was against the law
to sell any of his albums.

559
00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:42,846
<i>♪ Something you call unique... ♪</i>

560
00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:44,851
The white-run South African government

561
00:28:44,889 --> 00:28:46,433
was brutally oppressive.

562
00:28:47,142 --> 00:28:50,395
And Rodriguez's music
was inspiring people to oppose

563
00:28:50,478 --> 00:28:51,688
the policy of apartheid.

564
00:28:51,938 --> 00:28:53,940
<i>♪ As the tears rolled down your cheek... ♪</i>

565
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:56,651
There was just
so much bootlegging going on with that.

566
00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:58,987
But for the movie,

567
00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:00,811
nobody would've known about it.

568
00:29:01,698 --> 00:29:04,367
I watched my dad
smile through that movie like,

569
00:29:04,451 --> 00:29:07,412
"Oh, finally,
everybody gets to see what I saw.

570
00:29:07,495 --> 00:29:09,664
I wasn't crazy
to take a chance on this guy.

571
00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:11,958
I wasn't crazy to put all my money
in for this guy.

572
00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:15,128
I wasn't crazy to mortgage my house.
I wasn't crazy. Like, I was right!"

573
00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:19,841
Rodriguez was, to me,
he was a brilliant writer.

574
00:29:20,049 --> 00:29:21,426
So was Bill Withers.

575
00:29:23,845 --> 00:29:25,138
<i>♪ Mm-hmm ♪</i>

576
00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:28,683
<i>♪ Mm-hmm ♪</i>

577
00:29:30,602 --> 00:29:31,811
<i>♪ Mm-hmm ♪</i>

578
00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:41,196
<i>♪ Grandma's hand clapped in church
On Sunday morning ♪</i>

579
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:47,952
<i>♪ Grandma's hands
Played a tambourine so well ♪</i>

580
00:29:48,661 --> 00:29:50,079
Bill came to see me.

581
00:29:51,706 --> 00:29:54,959
He said, "I've been to all the labels.
I guess you'll be the last one."

582
00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:56,878
I said, "Well, you have to wait and see."

583
00:29:56,961 --> 00:30:00,673
I remember getting a taste
of Clarence's personality when...

584
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:05,386
...I went up there,
then they had cassettes,

585
00:30:06,262 --> 00:30:08,640
and I played "Grandma's Hands" for him.

586
00:30:08,723 --> 00:30:11,059
And he got up and ran around the desk,
and I thought,

587
00:30:11,142 --> 00:30:13,770
"What kinda guy is gonna run..." You know.

588
00:30:13,853 --> 00:30:15,293
You didn't hear many records

589
00:30:15,355 --> 00:30:17,857
of people talking about grandmothers,
but everybody has one.

590
00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:21,319
It just resonated with me, and I said,
"Wow, this guy has got it!"

591
00:30:21,402 --> 00:30:23,905
He said, "Do you have enough songs
to make an album?"

592
00:30:23,988 --> 00:30:24,989
And I said, "Yes."

593
00:30:26,282 --> 00:30:27,282
That was it.

594
00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:29,369
Oh, Jesus Christ. Bill.

595
00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:32,831
<i>♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪</i>

596
00:30:32,914 --> 00:30:34,666
I mean, come on, man.

597
00:30:36,709 --> 00:30:39,754
<i>♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪</i>

598
00:30:39,838 --> 00:30:42,882
<i>♪ And she's always gone too long ♪</i>

599
00:30:42,966 --> 00:30:46,386
<i>♪ Anytime she goes away</i>...<i> ♪</i>

600
00:30:48,721 --> 00:30:50,890
- Bill was not a...
- He wasn't obvious.

601
00:30:50,974 --> 00:30:53,142
He wasn't an obvious star whatsoever.

602
00:30:53,434 --> 00:30:56,104
And Bill will tell you that himself.
"I don't know what he saw."

603
00:30:57,856 --> 00:31:00,525
Bill Withers is interesting
because he expands what...

604
00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:02,318
commercial black music is,

605
00:31:02,402 --> 00:31:05,405
in that Bill looks like a folk artist.

606
00:31:05,488 --> 00:31:08,032
♪ <i>I know, I know, I know, I know...</i> ♪

607
00:31:08,157 --> 00:31:12,203
He's sitting there with a,
you know, acoustic guitar on a chair,

608
00:31:12,287 --> 00:31:17,292
but around the frame of him
was a really great, funky R&B thing.

609
00:31:17,375 --> 00:31:21,379
<i>♪ I know, I know, hey
I oughtta leave the young thing alone ♪</i>

610
00:31:21,462 --> 00:31:25,508
<i>♪ But ain't no sunshine
when she's gone</i>...<i> ♪</i>

611
00:31:25,592 --> 00:31:29,554
Clarence is like that. He's, you know...
He's a little to the left, you know,

612
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:32,473
uh, in terms of how
he sees and does things.

613
00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:34,517
And that's what makes him unique.

614
00:31:34,767 --> 00:31:37,562
Clarence made
some great choices musically.

615
00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:40,356
"Lean on Me" was not my choice
for a single.

616
00:31:44,819 --> 00:31:45,945
I wasn't some kid.

617
00:31:46,029 --> 00:31:48,114
I mean, I was 30-something years old,

618
00:31:48,197 --> 00:31:52,118
and, you know,
I had a whole life behind me.

619
00:31:53,661 --> 00:31:57,040
And so,
I will always be indebted to Clarence

620
00:31:57,123 --> 00:32:00,877
because he provided the big leap for me.

621
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,714
From being
a professional aircraft mechanic

622
00:32:05,256 --> 00:32:06,841
over into this world.

623
00:32:09,052 --> 00:32:14,140
<i>♪ Sometimes in our lives ♪</i>

624
00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,684
<i>♪ We all have things... ♪</i>

625
00:32:16,768 --> 00:32:19,520
The person that's responsible
for your transition,

626
00:32:20,229 --> 00:32:22,440
that's the key to you changing your life.

627
00:32:22,523 --> 00:32:24,067
<i>♪ Lean on me ♪</i>

628
00:32:25,818 --> 00:32:28,738
<i>♪ When you're not strong</i>...<i> ♪</i>

629
00:32:28,821 --> 00:32:31,741
Those songs are just so huge.

630
00:32:31,824 --> 00:32:34,577
I mean, even today. It's...
You can't really...

631
00:32:35,745 --> 00:32:39,040
spend a lot of time listening to music
without hearing some Bill Withers.

632
00:32:39,123 --> 00:32:40,723
- They've stood the test of time.
- Yeah.

633
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,794
We will never forget "Lean on Me."

634
00:32:44,128 --> 00:32:47,090
That's as famous
as "The Star-Spangled Banner."

635
00:32:48,341 --> 00:32:50,551
We still work every day
at what we do, right?

636
00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:52,095
Still trying to do that.

637
00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:56,516
After all these years.
Still trying to find that one classic

638
00:32:56,599 --> 00:33:00,311
that will stand the test of time.
Clarence did it... a few times.

639
00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:03,898
Well, I'm from Slab Fork, West Virginia.

640
00:33:05,024 --> 00:33:09,070
What's the odds of two guys
from Slab Fork, West Virginia,

641
00:33:09,445 --> 00:33:11,739
and Climax, North Carolina,

642
00:33:13,032 --> 00:33:16,744
making a fuss... in Hollywood?

643
00:33:20,081 --> 00:33:21,541
Yeah, I had some hit records.

644
00:33:21,624 --> 00:33:23,710
You know. Hey.

645
00:33:25,253 --> 00:33:28,006
I think that's the real tribute

646
00:33:28,089 --> 00:33:30,383
to Clarence's ear,
is that he had a feeling

647
00:33:30,466 --> 00:33:32,969
for whatever wasn't being done
at the time.

648
00:33:33,052 --> 00:33:35,179
Must've been kind of a lonely place
for him.

649
00:33:36,347 --> 00:33:39,058
For all that kind of brusqueness
and loudness,

650
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:41,185
it's never a one-way street with him.

651
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:42,437
He's not just talking

652
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,857
to be heard, but he's talking to provoke.

653
00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:48,568
I wanted to do a tribute
to Smokey Robinson,

654
00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:50,737
and I was talking to Don Cornelius,

655
00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:53,781
but Don said,
"You need to talk to Clarence Avant."

656
00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:56,117
He gave me a number, I called Clarence,

657
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,785
and he answered the phone.

658
00:33:58,536 --> 00:33:59,620
"Hello, who's this?"

659
00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:01,706
I said, "This is Danny Bakewell."

660
00:34:01,998 --> 00:34:04,083
I said... He said, "Well, who is that?"

661
00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:05,375
And he says... So I said,

662
00:34:05,418 --> 00:34:07,795
"Well, I'm the head
of the Brotherhood Crusade."

663
00:34:07,879 --> 00:34:09,464
And, you know, he said, "Well,

664
00:34:09,797 --> 00:34:12,133
what do y'all sing?
What's the name... What's your group?"

665
00:34:12,216 --> 00:34:13,216
"We don't have a group.

666
00:34:13,259 --> 00:34:15,299
This is a civil rights organization,
we wanna talk."

667
00:34:15,344 --> 00:34:17,531
He said, "I don't talk
to no civil rights organization.

668
00:34:17,555 --> 00:34:20,308
I'm sick of these niggas."
You know? Then he hung up the phone.

669
00:34:20,391 --> 00:34:23,227
So I was like, "Now, wha... Who is this?"

670
00:34:23,644 --> 00:34:26,189
So... I called back.

671
00:34:27,065 --> 00:34:31,110
And he said, "Man, I told you,
I don't want to do no civil rights.

672
00:34:31,194 --> 00:34:32,862
Okay? I'm trying to make some money."

673
00:34:32,945 --> 00:34:35,823
I said, "What I was doing is talking
about self-help,

674
00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:37,325
you know, and mutual aid.

675
00:34:37,408 --> 00:34:40,488
We have to do something for ourselves,
have to stop standing on the sidelines,

676
00:34:40,536 --> 00:34:43,623
asking white folks to do something
for us that we could do for ourselves."

677
00:34:43,706 --> 00:34:45,708
He said, "I like that!
That's what I'm all about!"

678
00:34:46,959 --> 00:34:51,297
And as I began to know Clarence,
I realized that he was a lone stranger

679
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:52,757
in the world he was operating in,

680
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,676
because he didn't dance, he didn't sing.

681
00:34:56,260 --> 00:35:00,890
You know, he was in the music business,
but he was so much more than that.

682
00:35:00,973 --> 00:35:03,893
Right now, we turn our attention
to the <i>Soul Train </i>Gang,

683
00:35:03,976 --> 00:35:06,771
the <i>Soul Train </i>Line,
and a master storyteller,

684
00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:08,064
Mr. Curtis Mayfield.

685
00:35:08,147 --> 00:35:10,316
You would have never heard

686
00:35:10,399 --> 00:35:13,319
95 percent of black artists

687
00:35:13,903 --> 00:35:15,571
without <i>Soul Train.</i>

688
00:35:24,163 --> 00:35:26,290
<i>Soul Train </i>was the weapon
of the movement

689
00:35:26,374 --> 00:35:28,014
that it didn't know it had,
which was joy.

690
00:35:30,253 --> 00:35:31,462
Before <i>Soul Train,</i>

691
00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:32,547
there had never been

692
00:35:33,089 --> 00:35:36,884
a weekly program show on national TV

693
00:35:36,968 --> 00:35:38,928
that featured black people,

694
00:35:39,011 --> 00:35:40,471
for black people,

695
00:35:40,555 --> 00:35:41,555
by black people.

696
00:35:41,597 --> 00:35:43,432
Not even anything close to it, really.

697
00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:49,230
And the amount of white people
who would experience black culture

698
00:35:49,647 --> 00:35:51,941
for the first time in an undiluted way,

699
00:35:52,024 --> 00:35:55,064
that was... <i>Soul Train </i>was that for them.
And they couldn't get enough of it.

700
00:35:55,111 --> 00:35:59,157
Welcome aboard, you're right on time
for another sweet ride on the <i>Soul Train.</i>

701
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:03,953
The unbelievable Al Green coming at you,
right after this important message.

702
00:36:04,036 --> 00:36:05,722
Haven't you forgotten something?

703
00:36:05,746 --> 00:36:07,707
Hey, aren't you Frederick Douglass?

704
00:36:08,457 --> 00:36:10,668
Yeah, we studied about you
in school yesterday.

705
00:36:10,751 --> 00:36:13,212
About how you were a slave,
and how you took your own freedom,

706
00:36:13,296 --> 00:36:15,214
and then began to fight for freedom
and dignity

707
00:36:15,298 --> 00:36:16,507
for all our people.

708
00:36:16,591 --> 00:36:17,800
Say, but what did I forget?

709
00:36:17,884 --> 00:36:20,604
Are you gonna go out into the world
with your hair looking like that?

710
00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,638
You have a black TV show

711
00:36:22,722 --> 00:36:25,850
that is sponsored primarily
by a black hair product company.

712
00:36:26,934 --> 00:36:31,480
Dick Clark had been the king
of youth culture and dance TV

713
00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:34,025
since he joined <i>American Bandstand</i>
in the '60s.

714
00:36:36,068 --> 00:36:39,655
Almost every act who would pop,
in any sense, played <i>Bandstand.</i>

715
00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:44,243
Every new dance that became hot
around the country was on <i>Bandstand.</i>

716
00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:47,079
So <i>Bandstand </i>was a big, big force
in the culture.

717
00:36:48,247 --> 00:36:51,918
And <i>Soul Train </i>was...
really, really threatened that,

718
00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:55,463
because it was a new style for America.

719
00:36:55,546 --> 00:36:58,466
<i>Soul Train, </i>you know,
was obviously doing very very well.

720
00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:00,468
And Dick Clark had...

721
00:37:01,010 --> 00:37:04,472
um, unfortunately created

722
00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:05,973
a competing dance show.

723
00:37:06,057 --> 00:37:07,808
Hello! Thank you very much!

724
00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:09,492
Let me get untangled
from this cord here.

725
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,520
He starts this show
called <i>Soul Unlimited</i>

726
00:37:11,562 --> 00:37:14,398
and gets
a pseudo-Don Cornelius host on it.

727
00:37:14,482 --> 00:37:16,484
Did you like Japan a lot?

728
00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:18,152
Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah.

729
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,988
He's on ABC. It was gonna come on
after <i>American Bandstand.</i>

730
00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:22,365
It's gonna have a big preview.

731
00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:24,450
Also, its advertisers.

732
00:37:24,533 --> 00:37:28,371
It came to Dick Clark
versus Don Cornelius.

733
00:37:28,788 --> 00:37:31,582
My father actually was fighting
for his life.

734
00:37:31,666 --> 00:37:34,418
Dick Clark approached me,

735
00:37:34,502 --> 00:37:35,878
and he wanted me to endorse it.

736
00:37:35,962 --> 00:37:38,339
Now remember, I was a consultant at ABC.

737
00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:39,966
That's why he came to me.

738
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,135
Dick Clark offered me a lot of money

739
00:37:43,761 --> 00:37:44,761
to do it.

740
00:37:45,596 --> 00:37:46,596
I said no.

741
00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:49,725
So, what I did,

742
00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:51,310
I went to New York.

743
00:37:52,561 --> 00:37:55,273
I said, "If you let Dick Clark go for it,

744
00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,067
I will put people
in the street that will..."

745
00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:00,403
I didn't know what I was gonna do.
You say all that shit,

746
00:38:00,486 --> 00:38:01,696
the white people got scared.

747
00:38:01,779 --> 00:38:03,906
He had the ability to walk in a room,

748
00:38:05,324 --> 00:38:08,536
tell people
exactly what they needed to hear.

749
00:38:09,245 --> 00:38:11,372
And if you were smart, you listened.

750
00:38:11,872 --> 00:38:14,667
And the decision was made bluntly.

751
00:38:15,126 --> 00:38:18,129
ABC would not move forward
with <i>Soul Unlimited.</i>

752
00:38:18,713 --> 00:38:20,339
So I won that battle.

753
00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:24,885
Clarence came to my father's aid
and did his magic.

754
00:38:25,886 --> 00:38:28,389
I'm Don Cornelius,
and as always in parting,

755
00:38:28,472 --> 00:38:31,767
we wish you love, peace, and soul!

756
00:38:34,228 --> 00:38:36,647
Yeah, I helped a lot of people, but...

757
00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:42,153
my job, so far as I'm concerned,
is to move us forward, period.

758
00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:45,031
That's all he's done.
That's all he's ever done, anyway.

759
00:38:45,114 --> 00:38:46,114
You know, um...

760
00:38:47,074 --> 00:38:48,617
just help those who need help.

761
00:38:49,201 --> 00:38:51,120
But he's never forgotten, you know...

762
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,792
the hardships.
Never, you know, forgotten the pain.

763
00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:00,129
'Cause equality drives him.

764
00:39:01,047 --> 00:39:03,007
But I do think it's from his childhood.

765
00:39:03,257 --> 00:39:06,594
We were poor, man.
I'm talking about poor, poor, poor.

766
00:39:07,219 --> 00:39:10,473
We had chicken feet soup,
we were so goddamn poor.

767
00:39:11,724 --> 00:39:14,310
Now if Quincy was here, he would say,
"Well, you're from Climax."

768
00:39:14,393 --> 00:39:15,269
That's not true.

769
00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:18,689
I was born in Greensboro
and <i>raised</i> in Climax.

770
00:39:19,899 --> 00:39:22,943
There's no better place
for Clarence to come from than Climax.

771
00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:27,156
Because... his whole career
has been a series of climaxes

772
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,239
that shook the world.

773
00:39:29,075 --> 00:39:32,661
There were eight children,
and me being the oldest.

774
00:39:32,995 --> 00:39:34,455
Gertrude is my mother.

775
00:39:35,331 --> 00:39:37,500
I just have
all these great memories of her.

776
00:39:37,917 --> 00:39:41,629
Yeah, she loved telling me stories
about her childhood, which wasn't easy.

777
00:39:41,712 --> 00:39:44,298
She did domestic work
since she was six years old.

778
00:39:44,382 --> 00:39:46,651
You know, it wasn't...
Her parents weren't technically slaves,

779
00:39:46,675 --> 00:39:48,344
but I mean, they were.

780
00:39:48,969 --> 00:39:53,641
And she was fast with her mouth,
you know, and she didn't take any crap.

781
00:39:53,724 --> 00:39:56,185
They're very similar,
my father and my grandmother.

782
00:39:57,353 --> 00:40:00,356
I know some people in the South
where Clarence grew up.

783
00:40:00,439 --> 00:40:03,359
And I got a phone call one day
from a good friend of mine,

784
00:40:03,442 --> 00:40:05,986
and he mentioned the word "sweet potato."

785
00:40:07,029 --> 00:40:09,657
And Clarence's nickname is "sweet potato."

786
00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:12,535
'Cause I would say,
"Everybody's got a sandwich except me!"

787
00:40:12,618 --> 00:40:14,787
"Well, you ain't got one.
Get your ass outta here."

788
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:17,248
And I would be so embarrassed

789
00:40:17,331 --> 00:40:19,667
because everybody would have...
And they would tease me.

790
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:20,751
"Sweet potato."

791
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,671
That's all I had to carry to school,
was sweet potato.

792
00:40:24,797 --> 00:40:28,134
Growing up, you know,
being born in 1931 in the South

793
00:40:28,634 --> 00:40:30,553
and living under Jim Crow law,

794
00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:33,431
he saw a lot of things
that nobody should see.

795
00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:37,184
How do I describe racism then?

796
00:40:38,644 --> 00:40:40,896
The KKK was all around us.

797
00:40:41,689 --> 00:40:43,399
My mother would just tell us,

798
00:40:43,482 --> 00:40:47,570
"If you hear a car coming, run and hide,

799
00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:50,573
lay down flat."
You know, just to protect yourself.

800
00:40:51,657 --> 00:40:54,257
Was your father
ever with you during your childhood?

801
00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:55,911
Nope, I was born out of wedlock.

802
00:40:57,037 --> 00:40:58,706
Well, I saw him a few times.

803
00:40:58,789 --> 00:41:01,417
He'd never give me shit,
so he didn't mean anything to me.

804
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:04,044
But I didn't have a father...

805
00:41:05,087 --> 00:41:06,087
per se.

806
00:41:06,922 --> 00:41:07,923
I had a stepfather.

807
00:41:09,758 --> 00:41:12,803
Gert, she was married
to a gentleman called Eddie Woods.

808
00:41:13,012 --> 00:41:15,139
And I certainly didn't get along with him.

809
00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:17,766
I knew he was very mean.

810
00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,312
I knew he was very abusive.
I knew he was physically abusive.

811
00:41:21,395 --> 00:41:23,606
My mother used to get
the shit beat out of her.

812
00:41:24,148 --> 00:41:25,399
And I was tired of it.

813
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:28,486
And I was like 12, 13 years old, I guess.

814
00:41:28,569 --> 00:41:31,238
So one day,
I put some rat poison in his food.

815
00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:33,907
So my...

816
00:41:34,533 --> 00:41:37,578
brother who is deceased, Weldon...
Poochie, we called him...

817
00:41:38,162 --> 00:41:40,164
Poochie said, "You better not eat that."

818
00:41:40,956 --> 00:41:42,041
I had to leave.

819
00:41:45,544 --> 00:41:48,881
I went to my Aunt Annie
in Summit, New Jersey.

820
00:41:49,757 --> 00:41:53,636
And I had never been on a train before
or anything like that.

821
00:41:54,887 --> 00:41:57,056
And after going to New Jersey,

822
00:41:57,556 --> 00:41:59,683
it was a whole new world
that I had never even<i>...</i>

823
00:41:59,767 --> 00:42:01,101
couldn't even imagine.

824
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,020
If he hadn't left the South...

825
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:06,106
and especially, he was in the Carolinas
in the period he was in...

826
00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:09,485
the opportunity for him
to move forward was very limited.

827
00:42:09,568 --> 00:42:11,448
Especially someone
who didn't have an education,

828
00:42:11,487 --> 00:42:12,905
wasn't part of any black elite.

829
00:42:12,988 --> 00:42:15,824
The Great Migration had started
in the '20s, really,

830
00:42:15,908 --> 00:42:20,371
and '30s, and '40s, '50s,
scores of black Americans went north.

831
00:42:20,913 --> 00:42:25,668
So Clarence ended up in New Jersey,
which is where his aunt lived.

832
00:42:26,168 --> 00:42:28,963
She was the first of the Avants
to go north.

833
00:42:30,631 --> 00:42:34,051
A few years later,
I got this job at Martindale-Hubbell.

834
00:42:34,635 --> 00:42:35,970
It was a law directory.

835
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:39,848
"What did you do at Martindale-Hubbell?"
What did black people do in those days?

836
00:42:39,932 --> 00:42:41,652
There was no such thing
as black executives,

837
00:42:41,684 --> 00:42:44,687
so you just carried books
or whatever you were doing.

838
00:42:46,397 --> 00:42:49,775
I used to watch television
or read the papers, and...

839
00:42:50,734 --> 00:42:52,319
my whole life changed...

840
00:42:53,445 --> 00:42:56,198
...when Emmett Till got killed.

841
00:42:57,616 --> 00:43:00,286
The Emmett Till case
is one of those seminal events

842
00:43:00,369 --> 00:43:03,831
in race relations in America
that really pointed out...

843
00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:07,835
the disparity of justice
when it came to black Americans.

844
00:43:08,919 --> 00:43:10,879
Emmett Till was a young kid.

845
00:43:11,422 --> 00:43:15,551
Summer vacation, you know, went down south
with his relatives to Mississippi.

846
00:43:16,093 --> 00:43:19,054
The story goes that he saw a woman,
a white woman,

847
00:43:19,388 --> 00:43:21,849
who claims that he whistled at her.

848
00:43:23,058 --> 00:43:25,853
And he was found
the next morning brutally murdered.

849
00:43:27,938 --> 00:43:30,941
His mother brings the body
back to Chicago,

850
00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:33,235
and everyone says
it should be a closed casket,

851
00:43:33,319 --> 00:43:36,405
but no, she wants the world to see
what happened to her son.

852
00:43:47,333 --> 00:43:51,003
The photograph of Emmett Till's body is,

853
00:43:51,086 --> 00:43:53,088
you know, for kids today, it went viral.

854
00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:55,716
It was the day after he was killed.

855
00:43:56,925 --> 00:43:58,802
I started crying and screaming...

856
00:44:00,054 --> 00:44:01,847
how badly I hated white people.

857
00:44:03,432 --> 00:44:05,768
The gentleman that run the place,

858
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:07,561
his name was Mr. Nofer.

859
00:44:09,063 --> 00:44:10,272
He came out...

860
00:44:10,856 --> 00:44:14,026
told me to come in his office.
Everybody knew that I was fired.

861
00:44:14,985 --> 00:44:18,614
And he said that they were all terrified
for him. Terrified.

862
00:44:19,323 --> 00:44:22,368
Not only because it was clear
that he was going to be fired,

863
00:44:22,743 --> 00:44:26,372
but, you know, you are a black man,
even in New York,

864
00:44:26,455 --> 00:44:28,290
going off about white people.

865
00:44:30,042 --> 00:44:31,043
In America.

866
00:44:31,627 --> 00:44:33,629
I went in his office and...

867
00:44:33,712 --> 00:44:34,922
I sat on the couch.

868
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:39,343
He said, "I understand your emotions."

869
00:44:41,637 --> 00:44:45,224
So he said, "I'm not gonna fire you,
but you can't do it again."

870
00:44:46,642 --> 00:44:49,395
That clearly changed my life

871
00:44:49,478 --> 00:44:52,606
in terms of civil rights,
or whatever you wanna call it.

872
00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:53,857
It just changed me.

873
00:44:59,029 --> 00:45:02,449
Memphis is a confused
and shocked city tonight.

874
00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:04,743
No one can believe what has happened.

875
00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:08,997
It's been just a little over an hour
since Dr. Martin Luther King died

876
00:45:09,081 --> 00:45:10,582
from an assassin's bullet.

877
00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:15,295
Reverend Andrew Young,
King's top lieutenant,

878
00:45:15,379 --> 00:45:18,674
was at the hospital awaiting word
and described the shooting.

879
00:45:19,383 --> 00:45:22,594
As he came out of his room,
on the edge of the balcony,

880
00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:25,389
he was shot.
And we thought a firecracker had gone on.

881
00:45:25,472 --> 00:45:27,766
Most of us were downstairs
on the lower level.

882
00:45:28,267 --> 00:45:32,020
And we immediately ran up and saw
that he'd been pretty badly wounded

883
00:45:32,104 --> 00:45:35,858
and sent for the ambulance,
and the police, and everybody.

884
00:45:39,528 --> 00:45:44,158
A man dies when he refuses
to stand up for that which is right.

885
00:45:44,908 --> 00:45:48,620
A man dies when he refuses
to stand up for justice.

886
00:45:48,704 --> 00:45:49,538
Yeah!

887
00:45:49,621 --> 00:45:55,043
A man dies when he refuses to take a stand
for that which is true.

888
00:45:55,127 --> 00:45:56,962
In the wake of Dr. King's assassination,

889
00:45:57,045 --> 00:45:58,380
we wanted to do something.

890
00:46:00,048 --> 00:46:02,009
Clarence had come up with the idea,

891
00:46:02,092 --> 00:46:05,429
Clarence and Jesse,
of putting on a big concert,

892
00:46:05,512 --> 00:46:08,223
a five-day kind of music festival.

893
00:46:24,573 --> 00:46:29,828
<i>♪ Oh, who really cares? ♪</i>

894
00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:34,875
<i>♪ Who's willing to try ♪</i>

895
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:41,006
<i>♪ Oh, to save the world ♪</i>

896
00:46:45,135 --> 00:46:46,887
<i>♪ To save our sweet world? ♪</i>

897
00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:50,891
We happen to have with us, in the studio,
a very dear friend

898
00:46:50,974 --> 00:46:54,019
who is the executive producer
of that film.

899
00:46:54,102 --> 00:46:56,480
He's a man
who has helped many, many careers

900
00:46:56,563 --> 00:46:59,358
during his career, including my career,

901
00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:01,121
and I'd like for you
to welcome him warmly,

902
00:47:01,151 --> 00:47:03,237
<i>Soul Train </i>Gang, Mr. Clarence Avant.

903
00:47:06,406 --> 00:47:07,616
All right.

904
00:47:07,699 --> 00:47:09,619
- How're you doing, Clarence?
- A little nervous.

905
00:47:10,327 --> 00:47:11,971
- I'm a little nervous.
- You of all people?

906
00:47:11,995 --> 00:47:13,831
- Yeah.
- Clarence...

907
00:47:14,164 --> 00:47:17,626
I'd like to get into how you got involved
in <i>Save The Children,</i>

908
00:47:17,709 --> 00:47:20,170
as its executive producer.

909
00:47:20,254 --> 00:47:23,298
We were able to work
with Reverend Jesse Jackson,

910
00:47:23,382 --> 00:47:25,193
come up with an idea
that this film should be made

911
00:47:25,217 --> 00:47:26,969
after looking at all that talent
out there,

912
00:47:27,052 --> 00:47:29,763
and so, in 1972, we filmed it.

913
00:47:30,347 --> 00:47:32,641
As a dealmaker,
he's the best in the business.

914
00:47:32,724 --> 00:47:36,603
There's no negotiating dealmaker
in Hollywood

915
00:47:36,895 --> 00:47:39,356
or New York better than Clarence Avant,
just none.

916
00:47:40,023 --> 00:47:42,609
I used to say,
"Why do ya'll all defer to Clarence?"

917
00:47:42,693 --> 00:47:47,239
He said, "Clarence Avant's the only one
that has the muscle,"

918
00:47:47,322 --> 00:47:50,242
was the term they used,
"to get a lot of these artists."

919
00:47:50,325 --> 00:47:52,202
'Cause you gotta remember,
in the '70s, now,

920
00:47:52,286 --> 00:47:55,998
the mob had a lot of control
in the music industry.

921
00:47:56,331 --> 00:47:57,833
I said, "He knows gangsters?"

922
00:47:57,916 --> 00:48:00,419
He knows how to talk to everybody.
He's not with them,

923
00:48:00,502 --> 00:48:02,087
but he knows how to talk to 'em.

924
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,758
I was looking for a tall, imposing man.

925
00:48:07,926 --> 00:48:10,596
And in those days, everybody was bright,

926
00:48:11,346 --> 00:48:15,183
darn near white, and curly-haired.
They used to call it "good hair."

927
00:48:15,267 --> 00:48:16,643
And this very short,

928
00:48:16,935 --> 00:48:22,482
dark-skinned brother came in,
who was very emphatic, you know,

929
00:48:22,566 --> 00:48:24,276
like a guy like your uncle at...

930
00:48:25,444 --> 00:48:26,278
at a reunion.

931
00:48:27,571 --> 00:48:29,757
One of the things that's unique
about <i>Save The Children,</i>

932
00:48:29,781 --> 00:48:33,911
and one reason the roster is so great,
is that it was able to bring together

933
00:48:33,994 --> 00:48:36,914
the three dominant labels
in black music at that time,

934
00:48:36,997 --> 00:48:40,375
which was Motown, Stax,
and Atlantic Records.

935
00:48:40,459 --> 00:48:44,755
No other event ever brought all
of that talent together on one stage.

936
00:48:44,838 --> 00:48:46,506
The film that resulted

937
00:48:46,590 --> 00:48:50,052
featured the best and the brightest
of black acts of the day.

938
00:48:50,135 --> 00:48:52,804
Jesse wanted to have a black crew.

939
00:48:53,347 --> 00:48:55,974
Black this, black that, black that.

940
00:48:56,308 --> 00:48:58,018
Clarence told me I was the director.

941
00:48:58,352 --> 00:49:00,437
He said, "You the producer,
and you the director."

942
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,522
We want black folks out there
on them cameras.

943
00:49:02,606 --> 00:49:05,651
<i>♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪</i>

944
00:49:05,734 --> 00:49:06,944
<i>♪ Show you that I love you ♪</i>

945
00:49:07,027 --> 00:49:11,073
<i>- ♪ Won't you please let me
- ♪ Back in your heart ♪</i>

946
00:49:11,156 --> 00:49:14,368
<i>♪ Oh, darling, I was blind to let you go ♪</i>

947
00:49:14,451 --> 00:49:15,786
<i>♪ Let you go, baby ♪</i>

948
00:49:15,869 --> 00:49:20,082
<i>- ♪ Not since I've seen you in his arms ♪
- ♪ I want you back ♪</i>

949
00:49:20,165 --> 00:49:22,250
<i>- ♪ Yes, I do, now ♪
- ♪ I want you back ♪</i>

950
00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:24,628
<i>- ♪ Ooh, ooh, baby ♪
- ♪ I want you back ♪</i>

951
00:49:24,711 --> 00:49:26,471
<i>- ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪
- ♪ I want you back ♪</i>

952
00:49:26,505 --> 00:49:29,967
It's also got brilliant,
brillant documentary footage

953
00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:32,260
of Sammy. There's an amazing section

954
00:49:32,344 --> 00:49:35,389
where he comes out
to an all-black crowd in Chicago,

955
00:49:35,472 --> 00:49:37,057
and they're booing his ass.

956
00:49:41,728 --> 00:49:45,524
If you look at that <i>Save The Children,</i>
he was clearly nervous.

957
00:49:45,607 --> 00:49:48,568
He was nervous
'cause they caught him hugging Nixon, man,

958
00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:50,112
and they booed him.

959
00:49:51,279 --> 00:49:54,866
Clarence convinced the naysayers
to give Sammy a place on the show,

960
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:56,576
so he could state his case to the crowd.

961
00:49:56,910 --> 00:50:00,122
Disagree, if you will, with my politics...

962
00:50:01,748 --> 00:50:02,748
Good.

963
00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:04,166
Good!

964
00:50:04,918 --> 00:50:06,878
Good, but don't...

965
00:50:08,046 --> 00:50:11,675
I will not allow anyone to take away...

966
00:50:12,467 --> 00:50:15,220
the fact that I am black.

967
00:50:17,889 --> 00:50:19,266
And then sings, you know,

968
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:20,726
"I Gotta Be Me."

969
00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:27,524
<i>♪ Daring to try, to do it or die ♪</i>

970
00:50:28,567 --> 00:50:32,988
<i>♪ I gotta be ♪</i>

971
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:39,536
<i>♪ Me ♪</i>

972
00:50:49,713 --> 00:50:51,913
And people are crying
at the end of this thing,

973
00:50:51,965 --> 00:50:55,260
and I'm... You're damn near crying,
because this is not just a performance.

974
00:50:55,343 --> 00:50:56,703
This is a man who's really saying,

975
00:50:56,762 --> 00:50:59,973
"No, I <i>am </i>one of you, and I...
Don't judge me this way."

976
00:51:02,267 --> 00:51:04,978
My father has this great sense of music.

977
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:07,481
He understands the vibration of music.

978
00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:11,359
He understands that music changes
the way you feel.

979
00:51:11,443 --> 00:51:14,279
He understands the power of music.

980
00:51:14,362 --> 00:51:15,739
I used to call him Magic,

981
00:51:16,323 --> 00:51:21,787
because he connects all of these worlds
and makes them his reality.

982
00:51:22,287 --> 00:51:24,915
He's in the music business.
He's in the movie bu...

983
00:51:24,998 --> 00:51:28,418
He's in the entertainment business,
but he's also in politics.

984
00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:32,380
There was a guy running for Congress.

985
00:51:32,464 --> 00:51:35,550
He would've been the first black guy
from the South.

986
00:51:36,301 --> 00:51:37,803
I'm Andrew Young.

987
00:51:38,637 --> 00:51:42,099
My preparation for politics
and my previous experience

988
00:51:42,182 --> 00:51:45,102
was somewhat different
from that of most of my colleagues.

989
00:51:46,019 --> 00:51:48,063
That's me in St. Augustine, Florida.

990
00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:52,984
Andy really didn't know me,
and I really didn't know him.

991
00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:54,903
So I call Andy.

992
00:51:55,695 --> 00:51:58,615
He called up and he said,
"You Andy Young?" I said, "Yeah."

993
00:51:59,491 --> 00:52:03,036
He said, "You running for Congress?"
I said, "Yeah."

994
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,081
He said, "In Georgia?" I said, "Yeah."

995
00:52:06,665 --> 00:52:08,500
He said, "Nigga, are you crazy?"

996
00:52:11,294 --> 00:52:14,214
I said, "Well, I don't know.
I probably am."

997
00:52:15,048 --> 00:52:17,092
He said,
"Well, if you crazy enough to run,

998
00:52:17,175 --> 00:52:18,802
I'm crazy enough to try to help you.

999
00:52:21,346 --> 00:52:22,346
What do you need?"

1000
00:52:23,557 --> 00:52:25,058
I said, "I need everything."

1001
00:52:26,059 --> 00:52:28,061
I said, "Suppose I can deliver...

1002
00:52:28,895 --> 00:52:29,896
Isaac Hayes...

1003
00:52:30,772 --> 00:52:31,815
and the Rare Earth."

1004
00:52:32,899 --> 00:52:35,777
He said, "I don't have any money!"
I said, "I didn't ask you that."

1005
00:52:35,861 --> 00:52:37,195
Andy said, next thing he knows,

1006
00:52:37,279 --> 00:52:40,240
he's driving down the street,
there's a big billboard on the street,

1007
00:52:40,323 --> 00:52:42,868
saying, "Concert coming for Andy Young,"

1008
00:52:42,951 --> 00:52:44,471
and he's got all these artists coming.

1009
00:52:44,536 --> 00:52:46,371
I mean, it was just...
it was just magical.

1010
00:52:47,622 --> 00:52:50,584
So they showed up,
and in the pouring-down rain.

1011
00:52:52,252 --> 00:52:53,753
We had 30,000 people.

1012
00:52:56,214 --> 00:52:58,675
And that launched my political campaign.

1013
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:08,768
<i>My dedication is not just to blacks.</i>

1014
00:53:09,102 --> 00:53:11,980
<i>My dedication is to anybody
in this society</i>

1015
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,318
<i>that has not had an opportunity
to enjoy all of the rights</i>

1016
00:53:16,401 --> 00:53:18,111
<i>and privileges of this society.</i>

1017
00:53:20,488 --> 00:53:24,284
The one thing Mr. Glaser said to me...

1018
00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:28,830
You have no rights
unless you have the right to vote.

1019
00:53:29,414 --> 00:53:33,585
I believe in, heavily,
in the political system. Period.

1020
00:53:34,461 --> 00:53:36,046
His attraction to politics,

1021
00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:39,424
again, is first and foremost
as somebody who likes people

1022
00:53:39,507 --> 00:53:41,718
who have that thing that nobody else has,

1023
00:53:42,052 --> 00:53:44,930
and seeing that. And responding to that,

1024
00:53:45,013 --> 00:53:49,059
again, that way of just seeking people out
who you would be surprised he knew about.

1025
00:53:49,142 --> 00:53:52,395
He called me and he said,
"Do you really know this Jimmy Carter?"

1026
00:53:54,356 --> 00:53:55,356
I said, "Yeah."

1027
00:53:57,150 --> 00:53:59,110
He said, "You not gonna get me

1028
00:53:59,194 --> 00:54:01,279
out here supporting
some Georgia cracker..."

1029
00:54:02,948 --> 00:54:05,659
"...and get embarrassed."
He said, "I want to help him."

1030
00:54:06,493 --> 00:54:09,621
I decided to mix it up
like a scrambled egg and get involved.

1031
00:54:10,205 --> 00:54:13,041
You can't go just one way, one color.

1032
00:54:13,124 --> 00:54:15,418
You have to look at the whole system,

1033
00:54:15,502 --> 00:54:18,129
and I look at the whole spectrum

1034
00:54:18,713 --> 00:54:20,090
of this country.

1035
00:54:21,341 --> 00:54:24,886
When Jimmy Carter decided
to run for office,

1036
00:54:25,387 --> 00:54:28,890
Clarence pulled most of Hollywood together

1037
00:54:28,974 --> 00:54:31,184
to support this peanut farmer
from Georgia.

1038
00:54:31,685 --> 00:54:33,019
So I think he organized

1039
00:54:33,103 --> 00:54:36,147
one of the first big fundraisers
for Jimmy Carter.

1040
00:54:38,441 --> 00:54:40,443
You go to a Clarence Avant event,

1041
00:54:40,527 --> 00:54:42,988
it would be Lew Wasserman,

1042
00:54:43,071 --> 00:54:44,990
Quincy Jones, and Barbra Streisand,

1043
00:54:45,073 --> 00:54:46,073
and Diana Ross,

1044
00:54:46,116 --> 00:54:47,033
and Berry Gordy.

1045
00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:49,494
So it was the fact that he had this net.

1046
00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:53,540
They always had people at the house.

1047
00:54:53,623 --> 00:54:57,127
We were either going to an event,
or an event was at our house,

1048
00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:58,628
or they were always involved.

1049
00:54:58,712 --> 00:55:00,463
Ted Kennedy was always at the house.

1050
00:55:00,839 --> 00:55:03,758
He saw very clearly
that celebrity was power.

1051
00:55:04,592 --> 00:55:06,152
Look, I think Clarence

1052
00:55:06,553 --> 00:55:09,973
is somebody who cared about politics

1053
00:55:10,056 --> 00:55:13,518
because he recognized
that economic progress,

1054
00:55:13,727 --> 00:55:16,021
cultural progress, social progress,

1055
00:55:16,479 --> 00:55:19,774
political progress are all tied together.

1056
00:55:27,115 --> 00:55:31,995
<i>Three-one pitch.
There's a drive into left field!</i>

1057
00:55:32,078 --> 00:55:34,748
<i>That ball is going, going, and outta here!</i>

1058
00:55:36,041 --> 00:55:39,502
<i>Henry Aaron has just tied Babe Ruth</i>

1059
00:55:39,586 --> 00:55:42,589
<i>in the all-time home-run parade!</i>

1060
00:55:43,757 --> 00:55:46,437
Clarence called me up and said,
"Andy, you know Hank Aaron?"

1061
00:55:47,052 --> 00:55:49,387
I said, "Yeah, he lives
around the corner." He said,

1062
00:55:49,971 --> 00:55:52,349
"If he's about to break
Babe Ruth's record,

1063
00:55:52,932 --> 00:55:54,851
he's supposed to make some money."

1064
00:55:54,934 --> 00:55:56,614
He said, "I'm not talking
about his salary,

1065
00:55:56,644 --> 00:55:59,481
I'm talking about him having endorsements.

1066
00:56:00,231 --> 00:56:05,236
Will you tell him that I'm not crazy
and I'mma call him?"

1067
00:56:06,446 --> 00:56:09,407
I said, "Well, I can't vouch
for you not being crazy!

1068
00:56:09,491 --> 00:56:12,452
But I'll tell him
that you've been very helpful to me

1069
00:56:12,535 --> 00:56:13,703
and he oughta talk to you."

1070
00:56:15,288 --> 00:56:16,790
I wasn't getting any offers.

1071
00:56:17,916 --> 00:56:22,295
I was somewhat reserved.
I was somewhat, um...

1072
00:56:22,379 --> 00:56:25,131
I thought that everything
should come to me.

1073
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,675
I explained to him, I said, "Hank,

1074
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,471
I'm not really a sports fan. But...

1075
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:33,890
I'll try to help you."

1076
00:56:34,474 --> 00:56:36,893
I said,
"You gotta understand numbers, man.

1077
00:56:37,727 --> 00:56:40,980
If you haven't made a deal
before you hit 715,

1078
00:56:42,232 --> 00:56:43,483
who the fuck cares?"

1079
00:56:44,067 --> 00:56:46,361
That was the magic number
in baseball forever.

1080
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,615
No one's gonna break Babe Ruth's 714.
Now, Babe Ruth, you have to understand,

1081
00:56:50,698 --> 00:56:52,117
has become a mythological figure.

1082
00:56:52,534 --> 00:56:53,618
He was the Bambino.

1083
00:56:53,701 --> 00:56:55,954
He was larger-than-life.
Played for the New York Yankees,

1084
00:56:56,037 --> 00:56:58,077
which is the greatest baseball franchise
in history.

1085
00:56:58,123 --> 00:57:01,960
He won a lot of championships,
so there's an investment in him

1086
00:57:02,043 --> 00:57:04,963
as this almost-mythical figure embodiment
of baseball,

1087
00:57:05,046 --> 00:57:06,923
embodiment of the American Dream.

1088
00:57:08,299 --> 00:57:12,262
So, when this black man
begins inching closer to his record,

1089
00:57:13,263 --> 00:57:15,640
there's, like, a national sense of crisis.

1090
00:57:17,058 --> 00:57:18,810
He gets letters, I mean,

1091
00:57:18,893 --> 00:57:20,979
flooding into the stadium in Atlanta.

1092
00:57:21,604 --> 00:57:22,647
"Nigger, don't do this."

1093
00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:24,899
"Nigger, you'll never...
I'll shoot you on the field."

1094
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:27,193
That was the hardest part.

1095
00:57:27,694 --> 00:57:29,237
I wasn't able to enjoy it.

1096
00:57:30,947 --> 00:57:33,450
Clarence, on the other hand, was...

1097
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:35,326
the type of person that,

1098
00:57:35,952 --> 00:57:38,037
if he wanted something,
he would go after it.

1099
00:57:38,121 --> 00:57:40,331
He wanted me to be part of Coca-Cola.

1100
00:57:40,665 --> 00:57:43,751
He wanted Henry Aaron
to be part of Coca-Cola.

1101
00:57:45,336 --> 00:57:47,380
So what he did, he said,
"I'm gonna go up here

1102
00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,133
and talk to these SOBs," you know.

1103
00:57:51,885 --> 00:57:57,056
He walked up to the president's office
in Coca-Cola. Now, this is unheard of.

1104
00:57:58,558 --> 00:58:00,643
Mr. Austin met with me.

1105
00:58:01,186 --> 00:58:02,645
Right to his office,

1106
00:58:02,729 --> 00:58:04,606
and looked him in the face...

1107
00:58:04,689 --> 00:58:07,609
You look at him
nose-to-nose. And you don't say hello.

1108
00:58:08,026 --> 00:58:11,112
You just go,
"Niggas drink a lot of Coke."

1109
00:58:11,279 --> 00:58:12,279
Yep.

1110
00:58:13,114 --> 00:58:14,365
He said, "You got

1111
00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:17,827
a nigga drinking Coca-Cola here,
and he does well,

1112
00:58:18,286 --> 00:58:19,704
plays ball in your town.

1113
00:58:20,246 --> 00:58:22,248
I want him to be part of your family."

1114
00:58:24,626 --> 00:58:27,003
He got the biggest contract for me

1115
00:58:27,086 --> 00:58:31,049
that any sports figure had ever had
back in the days when I was playing.

1116
00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:33,176
<i>One ball and no strikes,</i>

1117
00:58:33,259 --> 00:58:35,762
<i>Aaron waiting,
the outfield deep and straightaway.</i>

1118
00:58:35,845 --> 00:58:39,098
<i>Fastball, it's a high-fly
to the deep left center field!</i>

1119
00:58:39,182 --> 00:58:42,977
<i>Buster goes back to the fence! It is gone!</i>

1120
00:58:46,272 --> 00:58:49,234
<i>What a marvelous moment for baseball!</i>

1121
00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:53,655
<i>What a marvelous moment for Atlanta
and the state of Georgia!</i>

1122
00:58:54,030 --> 00:58:57,951
<i>A black man is getting a standing ovation
in the Deep South</i>

1123
00:58:58,576 --> 00:59:02,830
<i>for breaking a record
of an all-time baseball idol!</i>

1124
00:59:02,914 --> 00:59:05,708
<i>And it is a great moment for all of us,</i>

1125
00:59:05,917 --> 00:59:08,002
<i>and particularly for...</i>

1126
00:59:09,504 --> 00:59:10,421
It was...

1127
00:59:10,505 --> 00:59:13,925
his connection to Clarence
that helped him to know

1128
00:59:14,008 --> 00:59:16,469
how to market his value.

1129
00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:19,222
That's been a marriage made in heaven

1130
00:59:19,305 --> 00:59:22,684
because Hank has probably given away
more money

1131
00:59:22,767 --> 00:59:25,562
to poor kids
through his Chasing the Dream Foundation

1132
00:59:25,645 --> 00:59:28,606
than he made in all the years he was
in baseball.

1133
00:59:29,232 --> 00:59:32,986
Henry Aaron would not be Henry Aaron
if it were not for Clarence Avant.

1134
00:59:33,486 --> 00:59:36,239
When you're young,
you don't know your worth sometimes.

1135
00:59:36,322 --> 00:59:38,241
He was telling him,
"Yo, your worth is this.

1136
00:59:38,324 --> 00:59:40,844
This is the money you should
be looking for out of this position

1137
00:59:40,868 --> 00:59:42,579
because they pay your counterpart,

1138
00:59:42,662 --> 00:59:44,914
somebody who's white, Asian, or otherwise,

1139
00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:47,584
that does the same thing, or less,
this amount of money."

1140
00:59:47,667 --> 00:59:49,127
Getting true value...

1141
00:59:50,128 --> 00:59:53,715
is one of those things that,
as Clarence grows,

1142
00:59:54,090 --> 00:59:55,675
this becomes a touchstone.

1143
00:59:56,593 --> 00:59:59,971
Clarence put together a tribute
to Muhammad Ali,

1144
01:00:00,430 --> 01:00:02,140
and he got ABC to do it,

1145
01:00:02,348 --> 01:00:05,268
and then he demanded that they hire me
as the director.

1146
01:00:05,351 --> 01:00:08,187
And they said,
"This guy doesn't direct these things!

1147
01:00:08,271 --> 01:00:11,983
This is a black show, yeah,
but we don't need... I mean, come on!"

1148
01:00:12,066 --> 01:00:13,526
So I told this guy,

1149
01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:15,236
"You got one week.

1150
01:00:16,446 --> 01:00:18,531
I'm using Stan Lathan.

1151
01:00:19,157 --> 01:00:20,575
You either in or you out."

1152
01:00:21,451 --> 01:00:23,161
He went into somebody's office

1153
01:00:23,703 --> 01:00:26,914
and banged on their desk
or did whatever he had to do

1154
01:00:26,998 --> 01:00:28,678
for me to get a call
from my agent, saying,

1155
01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:32,879
"Guess what, man?
They want you to direct an ABC special!"

1156
01:00:38,259 --> 01:00:40,540
Muhammad Ali,
the greatest fighter of all time.

1157
01:00:41,804 --> 01:00:44,098
And there's Clarence,
at the end of the career,

1158
01:00:44,182 --> 01:00:45,975
kind of giving him that last pop

1159
01:00:46,476 --> 01:00:50,605
that helped him solidify his reputation
as a personality,

1160
01:00:50,688 --> 01:00:51,564
not just a fighter.

1161
01:00:51,648 --> 01:00:53,816
It's gonna be a killer!

1162
01:00:53,941 --> 01:00:54,941
And a chiller!

1163
01:00:55,318 --> 01:00:56,444
And a thriller!

1164
01:00:56,694 --> 01:00:59,072
When I get the Gorilla in Manila!

1165
01:01:00,114 --> 01:01:01,115
Right on.

1166
01:01:04,369 --> 01:01:05,828
All right!

1167
01:01:08,915 --> 01:01:12,502
It's so funny that Clarence
is content to be behind the scenes,

1168
01:01:12,585 --> 01:01:14,295
because he just registers

1169
01:01:14,379 --> 01:01:18,299
so impressively and so powerfully.

1170
01:01:18,383 --> 01:01:21,969
And so, I think that because of that...

1171
01:01:24,847 --> 01:01:26,474
hunger, you know,

1172
01:01:26,557 --> 01:01:29,268
that people just want to be
in business with him.

1173
01:01:30,019 --> 01:01:33,106
You know, I just... I don't know
how I got involved with anything, man.

1174
01:01:33,189 --> 01:01:34,273
I just took shots.

1175
01:01:34,357 --> 01:01:36,526
So, in my mind, I've been like this, man.

1176
01:01:37,860 --> 01:01:39,654
Everything you want to be involved in.

1177
01:01:40,196 --> 01:01:44,242
The whole idea... of the '70s,
when I was growing up,

1178
01:01:44,325 --> 01:01:48,788
into the '80s was blacks wanted
to own and control...

1179
01:01:49,455 --> 01:01:53,334
their own institution
and their own culture.

1180
01:01:53,418 --> 01:01:56,003
Clarence becomes an embodiment
of that because he's a link

1181
01:01:56,087 --> 01:01:59,841
between the black business world,
the idea of black entrepreneurship,

1182
01:01:59,924 --> 01:02:02,176
and black people
controlling their environment.

1183
01:02:02,260 --> 01:02:05,471
He's able to work with white institutions
to get money from them,

1184
01:02:05,555 --> 01:02:09,016
and he's tied into black music,
which is driving a lot of the messaging

1185
01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:12,645
around black identity,
and black confidence, and black power.

1186
01:02:17,859 --> 01:02:22,363
There was only one radio station
that I knew of that was owned by blacks.

1187
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:24,866
So I decided to...

1188
01:02:26,033 --> 01:02:30,037
expand my whatever,
and I bought a radio station.

1189
01:02:32,415 --> 01:02:34,792
A local radio station,
it was in Inglewood.

1190
01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:41,215
When I bought it, I changed its name
to Avant Garde Broadcasting, KAGB.

1191
01:02:43,259 --> 01:02:45,404
When you're in the sales department
at a radio station,

1192
01:02:45,428 --> 01:02:46,428
you're always hustling.

1193
01:02:46,929 --> 01:02:49,140
So you're always trying to sell that time,

1194
01:02:49,223 --> 01:02:50,975
that 60-second time buy.

1195
01:02:51,058 --> 01:02:54,729
So, I mean, you just have to go out there
and sell sell, sell.

1196
01:02:57,190 --> 01:03:01,611
It's still rough on black radio,
but when Clarence was in the business,

1197
01:03:01,694 --> 01:03:03,154
it was even worse

1198
01:03:03,237 --> 01:03:08,659
because none of these major advertisers
would even consider advertising

1199
01:03:08,743 --> 01:03:09,952
with a black station.

1200
01:03:10,036 --> 01:03:12,789
Even McDonald's hadn't decided

1201
01:03:12,872 --> 01:03:15,500
that they were going to get into
the black people business.

1202
01:03:17,126 --> 01:03:18,961
Overtly, Clarence is doing well.

1203
01:03:20,254 --> 01:03:23,341
He has Sussex Records, which is
very successful with Bill Withers.

1204
01:03:23,424 --> 01:03:25,176
He has KAGB radio station,

1205
01:03:25,843 --> 01:03:28,387
but it seems like he was overextended.

1206
01:03:28,888 --> 01:03:31,557
He bought that radio station.
I hated that damn thing.

1207
01:03:31,641 --> 01:03:32,892
I thought it was a dump.

1208
01:03:32,975 --> 01:03:35,144
Bill Withers did very well,

1209
01:03:35,353 --> 01:03:38,689
but, you know, you make money,
and you sign all these other acts,

1210
01:03:38,773 --> 01:03:42,944
and they sell two copies,
and... it doesn't mean shit.

1211
01:03:43,694 --> 01:03:45,571
One thing about the independent labels

1212
01:03:45,655 --> 01:03:50,159
in the '70s is that you were at the mercy
of your distributors, which meant

1213
01:03:50,243 --> 01:03:53,579
you weren't getting money for 3 months,
no matter how many records you sold.

1214
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:57,708
And you're still also getting bills
from pressing plants,

1215
01:03:57,792 --> 01:04:00,711
and you're getting bills
from people who make the labels,

1216
01:04:01,712 --> 01:04:04,006
and then you have the fact
that he had this radio station,

1217
01:04:04,590 --> 01:04:08,135
and he's cross-collateralizing his money
to try and keep both afloat.

1218
01:04:09,762 --> 01:04:11,430
And all of a sudden...

1219
01:04:17,061 --> 01:04:18,061
you broke.

1220
01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:21,983
One day, the IRS came into his office,

1221
01:04:22,275 --> 01:04:25,069
snatched everything
from the records to the desk,

1222
01:04:25,945 --> 01:04:26,988
padlocked the joint,

1223
01:04:27,697 --> 01:04:29,448
and said, "You owe us money."

1224
01:04:29,532 --> 01:04:30,532
Boom.

1225
01:04:31,701 --> 01:04:32,701
It's all gone.

1226
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,912
When we lost the radio station,

1227
01:04:34,996 --> 01:04:37,498
I think his regret was,
"I didn't really listen to the people

1228
01:04:37,582 --> 01:04:38,702
that were trying to help me,

1229
01:04:38,749 --> 01:04:41,210
the people who knew
how to run the radio station.

1230
01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:44,046
And I was too arrogant to listen."

1231
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,966
You know, he did say...
He'll never say that, but he did to me.

1232
01:04:47,049 --> 01:04:51,637
I think it was probably
the first big failure that he faced,

1233
01:04:51,721 --> 01:04:55,600
that he didn't see an immediate solution
on the horizon.

1234
01:04:56,976 --> 01:05:00,396
Bill and I had fights,
but that's part of the game, man.

1235
01:05:01,939 --> 01:05:04,233
Arguments, not fights.
I don't fight nobody.

1236
01:05:05,651 --> 01:05:08,070
Then there was the business part of it,
you know?

1237
01:05:09,906 --> 01:05:12,533
No hard... I understand, you dig?

1238
01:05:14,076 --> 01:05:15,077
But...

1239
01:05:15,161 --> 01:05:17,622
then it became time to move on, you know?

1240
01:05:22,376 --> 01:05:23,544
I'll never forget it.

1241
01:05:25,171 --> 01:05:26,297
Bill was like...

1242
01:05:30,051 --> 01:05:31,719
How do I put this?

1243
01:05:35,264 --> 01:05:37,141
I got very emotional when he left...

1244
01:05:40,061 --> 01:05:41,062
Uh...

1245
01:05:41,896 --> 01:05:43,022
I couldn't pay him.

1246
01:05:45,191 --> 01:05:48,903
With Bill Withers, you know,
that was a heartbreaker.

1247
01:05:49,487 --> 01:05:52,198
My daughter was maybe three
when she got to know him,

1248
01:05:52,573 --> 01:05:53,950
and she loved him.

1249
01:05:54,825 --> 01:05:56,827
But he decided to leave Sussex.

1250
01:05:57,411 --> 01:05:59,205
I had to explain that to her, too.

1251
01:06:00,748 --> 01:06:03,209
It was hard for my dad to let go.

1252
01:06:04,251 --> 01:06:09,173
He was getting very upset
because I think he felt insignificant.

1253
01:06:11,467 --> 01:06:14,595
I remember my dad and I used to swim
all the time.

1254
01:06:14,929 --> 01:06:17,890
I'd always get on his back.
He'd be like the big whale,

1255
01:06:17,974 --> 01:06:20,101
and he'd swim me to the deep end,
and we'd come back,

1256
01:06:20,184 --> 01:06:21,394
and then he'd watch me swim

1257
01:06:21,477 --> 01:06:24,438
and make sure my backstroke was good.
You know, we always had a good time.

1258
01:06:24,522 --> 01:06:26,242
All of a sudden,
I remember, just one day...

1259
01:06:26,273 --> 01:06:27,817
it stopped.

1260
01:06:30,820 --> 01:06:32,613
My mom said to me one day,

1261
01:06:33,114 --> 01:06:35,700
"You know, City National Bank
may take our house."

1262
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,869
I didn't know what that meant,
"What are you talking about?"

1263
01:06:38,953 --> 01:06:43,499
"Well, you know, we're... This is closing,
Sussex is closing, Bill Withers..."

1264
01:06:43,582 --> 01:06:45,626
everything just...
Then we lost the radio station.

1265
01:06:45,710 --> 01:06:47,128
Everything crumbled at once.

1266
01:06:48,004 --> 01:06:49,672
My house was in foreclosure.

1267
01:06:51,090 --> 01:06:52,925
I was gonna sell the house,

1268
01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:54,051
'cause I was broke

1269
01:06:54,135 --> 01:06:57,805
and I was gonna get the loan
and then sell it eventually.

1270
01:06:58,264 --> 01:07:00,433
And Jackie said, "Why didn't you tell me?"
And well,

1271
01:07:01,142 --> 01:07:02,560
"I didn't wanna tell you."

1272
01:07:07,148 --> 01:07:10,943
Just a matter of time, things,
I don't know. It's...

1273
01:07:11,027 --> 01:07:12,027
Um...

1274
01:07:13,237 --> 01:07:15,489
You don't leave.
You don't leave.

1275
01:07:15,573 --> 01:07:17,366
Where are you going, anyway?
And, you know.

1276
01:07:17,450 --> 01:07:21,495
So you're in this together, and you just,
you know, wait it out. And, um...

1277
01:07:23,748 --> 01:07:25,124
But you have to face it.

1278
01:07:25,207 --> 01:07:27,460
You can't make believe it didn't happen.

1279
01:07:29,545 --> 01:07:31,464
He had a lunch with me,

1280
01:07:31,756 --> 01:07:33,966
and he was in financial trouble,

1281
01:07:34,467 --> 01:07:37,011
told us he's going to have
to fold the company,

1282
01:07:37,094 --> 01:07:40,097
and we proved
to be "Here Comes Santa Claus."

1283
01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:43,017
And he was forever grateful

1284
01:07:43,684 --> 01:07:46,020
because it bailed him out of a hole
that he...

1285
01:07:46,103 --> 01:07:48,439
possibly would lose everything he had.

1286
01:07:49,273 --> 01:07:52,568
I was very connected to the man,

1287
01:07:53,027 --> 01:07:55,988
and I didn't want to see anything
bad happen to him, you know.

1288
01:07:56,322 --> 01:07:58,699
Little help from this friend
and that friend, and...

1289
01:07:58,866 --> 01:08:00,910
in time, we just pulled through.

1290
01:08:02,036 --> 01:08:04,121
It's a long life
in this game, you know.

1291
01:08:05,206 --> 01:08:06,707
You wanna keep your friends.

1292
01:08:07,458 --> 01:08:08,334
Very important.

1293
01:08:08,417 --> 01:08:10,836
And to know who your friends are,
very important.

1294
01:08:12,254 --> 01:08:14,507
It's my friend. Shit, I have friends.

1295
01:08:16,425 --> 01:08:17,843
I think Jackie

1296
01:08:17,927 --> 01:08:19,970
was the force that said to Clarence,

1297
01:08:21,055 --> 01:08:23,099
"When it comes to family, we can do this."

1298
01:08:27,561 --> 01:08:31,107
Since I've known Clarence
for almost 50 years,

1299
01:08:31,524 --> 01:08:34,360
I've known all of his kids, you know,
from the very beginning.

1300
01:08:34,944 --> 01:08:36,278
Clarence was a great dad.

1301
01:08:36,570 --> 01:08:37,571
He was a great husband.

1302
01:08:38,614 --> 01:08:40,950
It feels good to see Clarence
and his wife.

1303
01:08:41,492 --> 01:08:43,994
You know, these young cats, man,
in this business.

1304
01:08:44,537 --> 01:08:46,163
They look so amazing,

1305
01:08:46,747 --> 01:08:49,542
and they still look
like they got wedding cake on their feet.

1306
01:08:50,334 --> 01:08:53,087
Like they just walked
off of a soul wedding cake.

1307
01:08:53,629 --> 01:08:58,050
Really, he's been a mentor
and someone... and not just in business.

1308
01:08:58,759 --> 01:08:59,759
In life.

1309
01:09:00,386 --> 01:09:03,639
He actually probably saved my life
from one of the most...

1310
01:09:03,722 --> 01:09:05,975
It would've been
one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.

1311
01:09:06,058 --> 01:09:09,270
I was thinking about
doing something different in my marriage.

1312
01:09:09,353 --> 01:09:11,355
Like... ending it, basically.

1313
01:09:12,481 --> 01:09:13,983
And I called Clarence,

1314
01:09:14,316 --> 01:09:16,068
and he's like, "What's going on?"

1315
01:09:16,152 --> 01:09:18,946
I say, "Hey, man. You know,
I don't think...

1316
01:09:20,072 --> 01:09:21,615
I think I'mma get a divorce."

1317
01:09:22,241 --> 01:09:24,285
And he says, "A what?!"

1318
01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:28,497
I says, "Divorce." And, you know,

1319
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:32,376
when you talking to another guy,
you think that he's... it's guy talk.

1320
01:09:32,877 --> 01:09:35,077
"I know what you're going through.
This, this, and this.

1321
01:09:35,129 --> 01:09:37,756
You'll be all right."
That's what I was expecting.

1322
01:09:38,549 --> 01:09:39,925
What I got was...

1323
01:09:40,926 --> 01:09:45,222
"God damn it! God damn it, Jon!
What is wrong with you?!

1324
01:09:45,723 --> 01:09:46,765
You're different!

1325
01:09:47,141 --> 01:09:49,643
You're not supposed to be
like those other guys!"

1326
01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:53,063
And, I mean, he cussed me up one side
and down the other.

1327
01:09:53,731 --> 01:09:55,733
And he said, "Get your shit together!"

1328
01:09:55,816 --> 01:09:58,986
And he started crying on the phone.

1329
01:09:59,904 --> 01:10:01,572
And he's like, "I'm hanging up!"

1330
01:10:01,822 --> 01:10:02,822
And he hung up.

1331
01:10:03,657 --> 01:10:06,535
And... it blew me away

1332
01:10:06,619 --> 01:10:08,787
'cause that was the total opposite...

1333
01:10:09,288 --> 01:10:10,288
um...

1334
01:10:10,998 --> 01:10:12,416
reaction that I expected,

1335
01:10:13,250 --> 01:10:15,127
and he made me think.

1336
01:10:16,337 --> 01:10:17,713
And about a week later,

1337
01:10:17,796 --> 01:10:19,757
we were at breakfast, and he was like,

1338
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,217
"So, how's it going, kid?"

1339
01:10:21,342 --> 01:10:23,677
And I'm telling him,
I was like, "You know,

1340
01:10:23,886 --> 01:10:25,638
it just feels
like it's all falling apart."

1341
01:10:26,472 --> 01:10:28,641
And it just... flowed out of me.

1342
01:10:29,433 --> 01:10:32,686
And, um, he grabbed my hand,
and said, "You gonna be all right, kid.

1343
01:10:32,770 --> 01:10:36,523
Just take a step back
and you deal with one thing at a time."

1344
01:10:37,524 --> 01:10:39,276
Big Jon's like my son, man.

1345
01:10:39,818 --> 01:10:41,028
He's a good guy.

1346
01:10:41,111 --> 01:10:44,073
He checked me,
like a father would check his son.

1347
01:10:44,156 --> 01:10:48,160
Saved my marriage, saved my life,
and humbled me very quickly.

1348
01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:50,788
My wife got pregnant,

1349
01:10:50,871 --> 01:10:54,917
and then it was a bigger surprise
that we were having twins.

1350
01:10:55,501 --> 01:10:57,294
So, when the kids were born,

1351
01:10:58,545 --> 01:10:59,545
he called me.

1352
01:11:01,340 --> 01:11:03,175
"The first one I named Clarence.

1353
01:11:04,051 --> 01:11:06,053
The second one I named..."
I said, "Come on, man."

1354
01:11:06,136 --> 01:11:08,136
He said, "No, it's too late.
His name is Clarence."

1355
01:11:09,765 --> 01:11:12,142
He showed me a black family structure.

1356
01:11:12,226 --> 01:11:14,979
He showed me a black businessman.

1357
01:11:15,354 --> 01:11:18,190
He showed me how women
are supposed to be treated,

1358
01:11:18,274 --> 01:11:20,567
how you juggle a career and family.

1359
01:11:21,944 --> 01:11:25,698
I think Clarence Avant has one of
the biggest hearts in the universe.

1360
01:11:25,781 --> 01:11:29,118
I think he also goes to great lengths
to protect his heart,

1361
01:11:29,201 --> 01:11:31,245
and I don't think he lets
a lot of people in.

1362
01:11:31,328 --> 01:11:35,749
He has countless acquaintances,
friends, associates,

1363
01:11:35,833 --> 01:11:39,795
but very few people that I think,
as he would say, he has inside.

1364
01:11:39,878 --> 01:11:42,214
But Quincy Jones is one of those people.

1365
01:11:42,965 --> 01:11:45,342
I know him, man.
That's why I love him.

1366
01:11:46,427 --> 01:11:47,886
I've loved him a long time.

1367
01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:49,430
Eternally, man. I love him.

1368
01:11:49,513 --> 01:11:52,016
Quincy is very, um...

1369
01:11:52,808 --> 01:11:55,853
He loves to share his emotions.
He's a very intimate person,

1370
01:11:55,936 --> 01:11:57,354
and my father is not.

1371
01:11:57,604 --> 01:11:59,565
But it's very good for my father.

1372
01:12:00,566 --> 01:12:02,627
Ever give Clarence
relationship advice?

1373
01:12:02,651 --> 01:12:04,421
- Relationship advice?
- Mm-hmm.

1374
01:12:04,445 --> 01:12:06,572
No, but I've asked him to stop putting ice

1375
01:12:06,655 --> 01:12:09,908
in my Château Pétrus wine.

1376
01:12:11,702 --> 01:12:12,702
Yeah, I do.

1377
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:14,400
Just trying to get on my nerves.

1378
01:12:14,455 --> 01:12:16,615
- I swear to God.
- It's all he's trying to do.

1379
01:12:17,249 --> 01:12:18,667
When you see Clarence and Quincy,

1380
01:12:18,751 --> 01:12:21,253
it reminds you
of whoever you hang out with, your homie.

1381
01:12:21,628 --> 01:12:24,089
Like, no matter they age,

1382
01:12:24,423 --> 01:12:26,050
they still busting each other's balls.

1383
01:12:26,133 --> 01:12:28,969
Oh, wine is just like Pepsi-Cola to me.

1384
01:12:29,887 --> 01:12:32,181
- Pepsi-Cola, man?
- You just put ice in it to...

1385
01:12:32,264 --> 01:12:33,098
Get outta here, man.

1386
01:12:33,182 --> 01:12:34,892
It's like ice water. Same shit.

1387
01:12:34,975 --> 01:12:36,775
You have to be
from Climax to think like that.

1388
01:12:41,273 --> 01:12:43,484
1982...

1389
01:12:44,151 --> 01:12:46,278
I was then a young lawyer,

1390
01:12:46,362 --> 01:12:47,696
fresh out of law school,

1391
01:12:47,780 --> 01:12:49,907
working at CBS Records
in the law department.

1392
01:12:50,741 --> 01:12:52,743
Universal Pictures released a film

1393
01:12:52,826 --> 01:12:54,787
called <i>E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial,</i>

1394
01:12:55,371 --> 01:12:57,706
which became
one of the most successful films

1395
01:12:57,790 --> 01:12:58,832
of all time.

1396
01:12:59,875 --> 01:13:01,043
Universal decided

1397
01:13:01,126 --> 01:13:05,798
that they would put out
a storybook box set album,

1398
01:13:05,881 --> 01:13:08,425
to be produced by Quincy Jones,

1399
01:13:09,009 --> 01:13:11,220
executive produced by Steven Spielberg,

1400
01:13:11,303 --> 01:13:13,472
narrated by Michael Jackson.

1401
01:13:14,473 --> 01:13:18,352
The only problem was Michael Jackson
wasn't signed to Universal.

1402
01:13:18,435 --> 01:13:20,771
Michael Jackson was signed to CBS.

1403
01:13:21,522 --> 01:13:23,482
Michael did something. Quincy knows.

1404
01:13:24,233 --> 01:13:26,402
He made a whole CD...

1405
01:13:27,027 --> 01:13:28,445
and didn't get permission.

1406
01:13:28,612 --> 01:13:31,740
No one had asked permission from CBS,

1407
01:13:32,533 --> 01:13:35,494
and then head of CBS was
a man named Walter Yetnikoff.

1408
01:13:35,577 --> 01:13:39,790
He viewed this as an act of betrayal
and a declaration of war.

1409
01:13:41,792 --> 01:13:44,002
He sued Universal,

1410
01:13:44,086 --> 01:13:48,215
got a temporary restraining order
to stop the album, um,

1411
01:13:48,465 --> 01:13:51,927
and all of us end up
in a big conference room.

1412
01:13:53,137 --> 01:13:56,223
Universal has its litigators
at the meeting.

1413
01:13:56,306 --> 01:13:58,517
Sony has its litigators at the meeting.

1414
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:00,436
Michael Jackson's representatives
are there.

1415
01:14:00,519 --> 01:14:02,646
Steven Spielberg's representatives,

1416
01:14:02,729 --> 01:14:04,440
Quincy Jones' representatives...

1417
01:14:04,731 --> 01:14:07,276
And in the middle
of this big conference room

1418
01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:08,694
is Clarence Avant.

1419
01:14:11,155 --> 01:14:15,242
And I turn to the general manager
of CBS Records, and I say,

1420
01:14:15,325 --> 01:14:17,703
"This Clarence Avant,
what is he doing here?

1421
01:14:17,786 --> 01:14:18,996
Who does he represent?"

1422
01:14:19,496 --> 01:14:21,957
Without missing a beat, he said,

1423
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,043
"Clarence?
Clarence represents everyone here."

1424
01:14:25,586 --> 01:14:28,630
So, I met with them.

1425
01:14:29,631 --> 01:14:30,674
Worked it out.

1426
01:14:31,633 --> 01:14:32,885
The rest is history.

1427
01:14:38,932 --> 01:14:43,103
He was able to maneuver
and resolve so many issues.

1428
01:14:43,187 --> 01:14:46,023
It was crazy!
I'm like, "How was this guy doing it?"

1429
01:14:46,106 --> 01:14:48,150
But he was that go-to guy.

1430
01:14:49,359 --> 01:14:52,196
Michael wanted to thank my dad
for his help with <i>E.T.,</i>

1431
01:14:52,279 --> 01:14:53,739
so a few years later,

1432
01:14:53,822 --> 01:14:56,158
they asked him to promote the Bad tour.

1433
01:14:56,575 --> 01:14:58,202
Michael wanted me to do his tour

1434
01:14:58,911 --> 01:14:59,912
with just him.

1435
01:15:00,496 --> 01:15:01,747
And I turned Michael down.

1436
01:15:01,830 --> 01:15:03,707
I said, "I'm not a fucking promoter."

1437
01:15:04,625 --> 01:15:07,503
I walked into his office one time,
and he started saying,

1438
01:15:07,586 --> 01:15:10,881
"Man, you know,
Quincy put me down with Michael.

1439
01:15:10,964 --> 01:15:12,674
They want me to do some tour."

1440
01:15:13,926 --> 01:15:15,260
I said, "The Bad tour?"

1441
01:15:16,094 --> 01:15:17,094
"Yeah, I guess."

1442
01:15:19,014 --> 01:15:21,225
"Is that a problem?"

1443
01:15:21,308 --> 01:15:22,976
You know, I'm thinking to myself,

1444
01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:24,520
"What a great opportunity!"

1445
01:15:24,603 --> 01:15:27,022
And he said,
"I don't know what to do with this."

1446
01:15:27,105 --> 01:15:29,316
So, you know, I said, "There's one person

1447
01:15:29,942 --> 01:15:32,277
who I know, who I've dealt with,

1448
01:15:32,903 --> 01:15:39,201
who actually knows all the ins and outs
of every building that is important

1449
01:15:39,284 --> 01:15:41,078
for this tour in America,

1450
01:15:41,828 --> 01:15:43,080
And that's Al Haymon."

1451
01:15:44,289 --> 01:15:48,043
So we brought in Al,
and that completely locked it down.

1452
01:15:48,627 --> 01:15:49,545
<i>Inside the arena,</i>

1453
01:15:49,628 --> 01:15:52,923
<i>one of the biggest
and most elaborate stage sets ever built,</i>

1454
01:15:53,006 --> 01:15:54,675
<i>erected in just four days.</i>

1455
01:15:54,758 --> 01:15:56,802
<i>Ninety thousand packed the park,</i>

1456
01:15:56,885 --> 01:16:00,097
<i>ten thousand more
than for Springsteen, Genesis, or Madonna,</i>

1457
01:16:00,180 --> 01:16:01,640
<i>and they weren't disappointed.</i>

1458
01:16:01,723 --> 01:16:04,768
<i>♪ Bringing brighter days ♪</i>

1459
01:16:04,851 --> 01:16:07,646
<i>♪ They're all in line waiting for you ♪</i>

1460
01:16:07,729 --> 01:16:11,775
<i>♪ So know the truth
You're just another part of me ♪</i>

1461
01:16:11,858 --> 01:16:14,778
Al could do everything that was required

1462
01:16:14,861 --> 01:16:17,531
of the position they had put Clarence in.

1463
01:16:17,614 --> 01:16:21,076
Clarence looked upon Al
as a high-achieving son.

1464
01:16:22,578 --> 01:16:24,997
You know, like,
"This is one of my mentees,

1465
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:26,957
and look at what he does."

1466
01:16:27,749 --> 01:16:28,829
Everyone was asking,

1467
01:16:28,875 --> 01:16:32,713
"Are you gonna be in the record industry
like your father, follow his footsteps?"

1468
01:16:32,796 --> 01:16:37,426
It's... I think Al Haymon taught me,
those are some... deep, deep shoes.

1469
01:16:38,552 --> 01:16:41,346
It's too much. It was too much pressure.

1470
01:16:43,015 --> 01:16:45,684
In the wake of
the fall of Sussex Records,

1471
01:16:45,892 --> 01:16:47,311
Clarence dusts himself off...

1472
01:16:48,353 --> 01:16:49,605
...and starts another label.

1473
01:16:49,938 --> 01:16:51,538
Taboo, you know, the forbidden.

1474
01:16:51,565 --> 01:16:54,276
That which is out of reach,
that which you shouldn't have.

1475
01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:56,903
The unorthodox,
the unexpected, the surprise.

1476
01:16:57,112 --> 01:16:57,946
Classic Clarence.

1477
01:16:58,030 --> 01:17:01,116
And as they join us to do
their latest single on the Tabu label,

1478
01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:03,994
an absolute smash
entitled "Take Your Time,"

1479
01:17:04,119 --> 01:17:05,912
let's welcome from Atlanta, Georgia,

1480
01:17:05,996 --> 01:17:08,248
the SOS Band.

1481
01:17:16,465 --> 01:17:19,051
The first time I ever heard
the name Clarence Avant,

1482
01:17:20,344 --> 01:17:22,638
it was the SOS Band's...

1483
01:17:22,721 --> 01:17:25,307
<i>♪ Baby, we can do it
Take your time ♪</i>

1484
01:17:25,390 --> 01:17:28,352
<i>♪ Do it right
We can do it, baby ♪</i>

1485
01:17:28,435 --> 01:17:30,354
<i>♪ Do it tonight ♪</i>

1486
01:17:30,437 --> 01:17:34,274
<i>♪ Baby, we can do it
Take the time, do it right ♪</i>

1487
01:17:34,358 --> 01:17:37,778
<i>♪ We can do it, baby
Do it tonight ♪</i>

1488
01:17:37,861 --> 01:17:39,655
The '80s brings in technology,

1489
01:17:40,572 --> 01:17:44,368
so, literally, the texture
of the music sonically changes.

1490
01:17:44,451 --> 01:17:45,786
The LinnDrum,

1491
01:17:45,869 --> 01:17:48,830
808, all kinds of synthesized keyboards.

1492
01:17:48,914 --> 01:17:52,834
All this music that in 1972 was made
by human beings alone

1493
01:17:52,918 --> 01:17:55,462
is now made with computers
of various kinds.

1494
01:17:56,588 --> 01:17:59,257
The producer now didn't need
a house band.

1495
01:17:59,341 --> 01:18:01,468
And it becomes much more, even more so,

1496
01:18:01,551 --> 01:18:04,012
about the masterminds of the music.

1497
01:18:04,096 --> 01:18:07,015
And it tends to be one- or two-man teams.

1498
01:18:07,974 --> 01:18:12,187
I was managing these guys,
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis,

1499
01:18:12,562 --> 01:18:16,108
and Clarence was looking
for someone to produce SOS Band.

1500
01:18:16,191 --> 01:18:17,901
I told him, "I've got these guys.
You know,

1501
01:18:17,984 --> 01:18:21,071
they're with The Time, you know,
but they're producers, you know.

1502
01:18:21,154 --> 01:18:23,234
They want to do some other things
outside of Prince."

1503
01:18:23,740 --> 01:18:26,451
He saw that these guys had talent.

1504
01:18:26,535 --> 01:18:29,538
He gave them the shot,
the first real shot.

1505
01:18:30,122 --> 01:18:32,582
And so we went in, and he said,

1506
01:18:32,666 --> 01:18:34,126
"You'll be producing some songs."

1507
01:18:35,168 --> 01:18:36,837
We're like, "Whoa!"

1508
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,590
Our then manager/agent,
he asked her to leave.

1509
01:18:41,591 --> 01:18:46,012
And he said, "Now, I got a problem
with what you're asking for."

1510
01:18:47,180 --> 01:18:50,517
We're like, "Oh, no, Mr. Avant.
Whatever you need,

1511
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,229
if we've asked for too much, you know,
we can do it for less or whatever."

1512
01:18:54,396 --> 01:18:55,480
He said, "No.

1513
01:18:56,398 --> 01:18:57,816
She didn't ask for enough.

1514
01:18:58,734 --> 01:19:00,318
You can't do a record on that.

1515
01:19:00,402 --> 01:19:02,362
You need some money for this,
some money for that,

1516
01:19:02,446 --> 01:19:05,365
you need some money for this."
You know, and we were like...

1517
01:19:06,241 --> 01:19:08,452
I... At that point in my life,

1518
01:19:09,202 --> 01:19:12,080
as a black man,
I had never met an honorable man

1519
01:19:12,164 --> 01:19:15,083
who would give you more
than you asked for...

1520
01:19:15,917 --> 01:19:18,044
and enough that you needed.

1521
01:19:18,128 --> 01:19:20,297
That told you everything you needed
to know about him,

1522
01:19:20,380 --> 01:19:22,132
- right in that first meeting.
- Yes.

1523
01:19:22,215 --> 01:19:24,342
<i>♪ People always talking about ♪</i>

1524
01:19:26,219 --> 01:19:27,846
<i>♪ Your reputation ♪</i>

1525
01:19:31,057 --> 01:19:34,561
<i>♪ I don't care about your other girls ♪</i>

1526
01:19:34,644 --> 01:19:36,480
<i>♪ Just be good to me ♪</i>

1527
01:19:37,773 --> 01:19:39,858
How does it feel to have

1528
01:19:39,941 --> 01:19:42,694
the biggest record on the planet here,
folks? Anybody wanna...

1529
01:19:42,778 --> 01:19:44,154
Great!

1530
01:19:45,197 --> 01:19:48,241
We give all the thanks to Allah,
and Jimmy, and Terry,

1531
01:19:48,325 --> 01:19:49,993
which came in the nick of time.

1532
01:19:50,076 --> 01:19:54,247
And so, Tabu became alive
after Jimmy and Terry got involved.

1533
01:19:54,331 --> 01:19:56,583
If you wanted Jam and Lewis
to produce you,

1534
01:19:56,666 --> 01:19:58,710
they had to do at least five tracks.

1535
01:19:58,794 --> 01:20:02,047
You got five songs, five more copyrights.

1536
01:20:02,130 --> 01:20:04,174
Clarence spent a lot of time with them,

1537
01:20:04,466 --> 01:20:07,093
schooling them,
teaching them the business.

1538
01:20:08,804 --> 01:20:10,764
He had a flurry of hit records.

1539
01:20:10,847 --> 01:20:12,641
Uh, he had the SOS Band.

1540
01:20:12,724 --> 01:20:15,519
He had Cherrelle.
What was Cherrelle's song?

1541
01:20:16,061 --> 01:20:18,772
<i>♪ I didn't mean to turn you on ♪</i>

1542
01:20:18,939 --> 01:20:21,107
<i>♪ Didn't mean to turn you on! ♪</i>

1543
01:20:24,402 --> 01:20:25,654
Then one day,

1544
01:20:25,862 --> 01:20:28,740
we brought Alexander O'Neal
into the studio

1545
01:20:28,824 --> 01:20:30,325
and sent Clarence the tracks.

1546
01:20:30,867 --> 01:20:31,867
He said...

1547
01:20:32,244 --> 01:20:34,804
"This motherfucker you sent me,
what's that motherfucker's name?"

1548
01:20:35,205 --> 01:20:36,456
I said, "Alexander O'Neal."

1549
01:20:36,540 --> 01:20:38,083
Who is he?

1550
01:20:38,166 --> 01:20:41,127
"He Irish or something?"
And we said, "No, he's black, Clarence."

1551
01:20:41,211 --> 01:20:43,851
"O'Neal! What kind of name
is that for a black man? Huh?

1552
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:45,382
Yeah, well, have him come on out."

1553
01:20:45,465 --> 01:20:47,133
- Right.
- You know?

1554
01:20:47,717 --> 01:20:50,053
<i>♪ There's never any question ♪</i>

1555
01:20:50,178 --> 01:20:51,221
<i>♪ Uh-uh ♪</i>

1556
01:20:51,346 --> 01:20:54,182
<i>♪ You will be my Saturday love ♪</i>

1557
01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:57,227
<i>♪ There's never any question! ♪</i>

1558
01:20:57,310 --> 01:20:58,436
I'm like, how did he...

1559
01:20:58,979 --> 01:21:00,856
He said "querstion." I love that.

1560
01:21:01,189 --> 01:21:02,524
<i>♪ There's never any... ♪</i>

1561
01:21:02,607 --> 01:21:04,776
<i>- ♪ Question ♪
- ♪ Uh-uh ♪</i>

1562
01:21:04,901 --> 01:21:08,238
<i>- ♪ You will be my Saturday love! ♪
- ♪ You can be my Saturday, Sunday, Mon... ♪</i>

1563
01:21:08,321 --> 01:21:09,948
<i>♪ Sunday Monday Tuesday... ♪</i>

1564
01:21:10,031 --> 01:21:10,907
We knew

1565
01:21:10,991 --> 01:21:15,370
that all we wanted to do was make
our godfather happy.

1566
01:21:16,121 --> 01:21:18,248
<i>♪ Never on Sunday ♪</i>

1567
01:21:18,331 --> 01:21:20,250
<i>♪ Monday's too soon ♪</i>

1568
01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:23,587
All these records were records
I was partying hard to.

1569
01:21:23,670 --> 01:21:26,172
Dancing my ass off to in the clubs, so...

1570
01:21:26,965 --> 01:21:31,011
in my mind, he was partial man,
partial god in terms of tastemaker.

1571
01:21:31,469 --> 01:21:33,805
Clarence managing, uh, uh...

1572
01:21:33,889 --> 01:21:36,892
Jimmy and Terry
helped make the Janet album.

1573
01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:41,380
What're you doing? You're working!

1574
01:21:41,438 --> 01:21:45,191
Not anymore, Lou.
I'm gonna be a big star!

1575
01:21:46,651 --> 01:21:48,987
Janet was signed as a 15-year-old.

1576
01:21:49,738 --> 01:21:51,740
She had made a couple of records
with her father.

1577
01:21:51,823 --> 01:21:54,784
<i>♪ Come give your love to me ♪</i>

1578
01:21:54,868 --> 01:21:57,662
Nobody knew what to do with her,
nobody was listening.

1579
01:21:57,746 --> 01:22:01,875
And I think what Clarence's real gift was,
is finding people who had ears.

1580
01:22:02,334 --> 01:22:04,294
My father said, "Wait a minute!

1581
01:22:04,377 --> 01:22:06,630
I have these two young guys
from Minneapolis.

1582
01:22:06,713 --> 01:22:07,839
They worked on SOS.

1583
01:22:07,923 --> 01:22:10,675
They gave me a couple hits.
They went to number one,

1584
01:22:10,759 --> 01:22:12,052
and they're living in LA.

1585
01:22:12,636 --> 01:22:14,638
We should just put them together."

1586
01:22:17,182 --> 01:22:18,183
Terry!

1587
01:22:18,892 --> 01:22:20,185
Break it down!

1588
01:22:21,394 --> 01:22:22,394
Right here!

1589
01:22:25,899 --> 01:22:26,899
Jimmy Jam!

1590
01:22:34,366 --> 01:22:37,410
Very special, one man's name that...

1591
01:22:38,536 --> 01:22:41,373
means the world to us.
He means the world to us.

1592
01:22:41,456 --> 01:22:43,667
A gentleman named Mr. Clarence Avant.

1593
01:22:45,710 --> 01:22:48,046
And I remember after the <i>Control</i> album-<i>-</i>

1594
01:22:48,672 --> 01:22:49,839
Clarence!

1595
01:22:49,923 --> 01:22:51,132
The phone was ringing more.

1596
01:22:51,216 --> 01:22:53,385
People were always at the house
on a Sunday.

1597
01:22:53,468 --> 01:22:56,304
It didn't matter who it was.
One day I'd walk in, it's Bobby Brown,

1598
01:22:56,388 --> 01:22:58,014
or Whitney Houston.
Everybody was coming.

1599
01:22:58,098 --> 01:22:59,891
Everybody just started flooding the house.

1600
01:22:59,975 --> 01:23:01,184
Questions, questions.

1601
01:23:01,267 --> 01:23:04,020
"Can you help me with this deal?"
Or, "Can you... "It just happened.

1602
01:23:09,025 --> 01:23:10,527
In 1983,

1603
01:23:10,819 --> 01:23:15,031
I went to run a place
that was then called MCA Records.

1604
01:23:15,115 --> 01:23:17,242
I probably had the job maybe a week,

1605
01:23:17,325 --> 01:23:19,911
and I get a call from our chairman,
Lew Wasserman,

1606
01:23:19,995 --> 01:23:20,996
and he says,

1607
01:23:21,079 --> 01:23:23,498
"Clarence Avant would like to have lunch
with you."

1608
01:23:24,082 --> 01:23:26,668
And I remember we went
to the Chinese restaurant up at the lot,

1609
01:23:26,751 --> 01:23:28,511
and we're sitting there talking,
and he said,

1610
01:23:28,545 --> 01:23:29,921
"Would you like any help

1611
01:23:31,089 --> 01:23:34,050
putting MCA
into the black music business?"

1612
01:23:34,676 --> 01:23:36,553
And I said, "Yeah, I really would."

1613
01:23:36,636 --> 01:23:39,431
He says, "That's good, 'cause I'm gonna
tell you what to do anyway."

1614
01:23:41,933 --> 01:23:45,145
And that's what I say about Clarence:
he was never looking for permission.

1615
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,274
Which is still an unusual thing
in the culture, you know,

1616
01:23:49,357 --> 01:23:52,068
the idea of a black voice being heard
the way it needed to be heard.

1617
01:23:54,779 --> 01:23:57,216
One of the things
that's magical or interesting to me

1618
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:58,324
about Clarence's career

1619
01:23:58,408 --> 01:24:00,535
is that there's all this history
in the '70s

1620
01:24:00,618 --> 01:24:02,912
of him having a record company
and stuff.

1621
01:24:02,996 --> 01:24:05,540
When I encounter him as a young writer
in the '80s,

1622
01:24:05,623 --> 01:24:07,503
it feels like he's transitioned
to another place

1623
01:24:07,542 --> 01:24:09,794
in terms of what his role is
in the industry.

1624
01:24:11,713 --> 01:24:14,758
Clarence was the guy
that could place you.

1625
01:24:14,841 --> 01:24:19,554
RCA, Polydor, CBS Records, Epic, all that.

1626
01:24:19,637 --> 01:24:22,807
And I begin to realize that
it wasn't simply that he was having

1627
01:24:22,891 --> 01:24:25,310
young black executives be vetted

1628
01:24:25,894 --> 01:24:27,187
for, like, white executives.

1629
01:24:28,605 --> 01:24:30,815
It was that the white executives
were listening to him.

1630
01:24:31,524 --> 01:24:34,319
He staffed
our entire black music label.

1631
01:24:34,819 --> 01:24:37,739
I, right then, figured out,
he's the godfather.

1632
01:24:40,408 --> 01:24:42,994
All of us would go to him
from time to time

1633
01:24:43,078 --> 01:24:45,538
to ask about how to get someone
that we wanted,

1634
01:24:45,622 --> 01:24:48,416
how to make sure we didn't lose someone
that we wanted to keep.

1635
01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:52,128
Because, you see,
Clarence knows everybody.

1636
01:24:54,923 --> 01:24:56,341
You know, he knows everybody.

1637
01:24:57,759 --> 01:24:59,594
And everybody could trust him.

1638
01:24:59,677 --> 01:25:02,097
Say, well, if Clarence said it,

1639
01:25:02,180 --> 01:25:05,016
it must be all right,
'cause Clarence is not going to get you

1640
01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:07,227
out there on something
that's gonna backfire.

1641
01:25:07,310 --> 01:25:08,978
What's extraordinary about him is...

1642
01:25:09,938 --> 01:25:13,233
he... he's got this instinct
on young people, young executives.

1643
01:25:13,316 --> 01:25:17,195
He's been so involved in the careers
of so many young people,

1644
01:25:17,278 --> 01:25:19,155
not just in the entertainment industry,

1645
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:20,949
but just throughout.

1646
01:25:21,032 --> 01:25:22,033
He's always a person

1647
01:25:22,117 --> 01:25:24,536
that people say, "You should talk
to Clarence about that."

1648
01:25:24,619 --> 01:25:28,248
Every deal I had, every contract I got
as a record executive,

1649
01:25:28,915 --> 01:25:30,458
I would send it to Clarence.

1650
01:25:30,542 --> 01:25:32,252
What to ask for, what not to ask for,

1651
01:25:32,335 --> 01:25:34,462
what to push back on,
what not to push back on.

1652
01:25:34,963 --> 01:25:38,633
Usually it was about,
for him, it was... money.

1653
01:25:39,217 --> 01:25:40,343
What's the money like?

1654
01:25:40,426 --> 01:25:43,638
And was it on par
with what white executives were getting?

1655
01:25:43,721 --> 01:25:46,683
If he thought it was right for you,
it was about the right thing for you.

1656
01:25:47,267 --> 01:25:49,686
I'd gone
from Berry Gordy's pet assistant...

1657
01:25:49,769 --> 01:25:53,148
I took care of his animals...
up to his assistant, and on and on.

1658
01:25:53,231 --> 01:25:55,608
And I'd hit this kind of ceiling
with the company,

1659
01:25:55,692 --> 01:25:57,443
and that's when I heard from Clarence.

1660
01:25:58,403 --> 01:26:02,407
He helped me construct a deal
at Warner Brothers Pictures

1661
01:26:02,490 --> 01:26:04,993
that allowed me to develop television
and film projects,

1662
01:26:05,076 --> 01:26:07,236
and ultimately,
to take some of those things to Quincy,

1663
01:26:07,287 --> 01:26:08,580
which we got made.

1664
01:26:09,789 --> 01:26:12,876
If you wanted to get a job in Hollywood,

1665
01:26:12,959 --> 01:26:16,796
in the record business, or as an actor,
or with the studios,

1666
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,048
Clarence was the guy you went to.

1667
01:26:19,132 --> 01:26:21,259
And Clarence was the guy
that saw that you...

1668
01:26:21,843 --> 01:26:24,012
were taken care of,
that you weren't, uh...

1669
01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:26,431
shortchanged.

1670
01:26:26,514 --> 01:26:29,350
You know, we're in a business
with a bunch of assholes.

1671
01:26:29,434 --> 01:26:30,744
You got five of 'em sitting here.

1672
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:35,000
You have to understand something:
when you walk into this town,

1673
01:26:35,064 --> 01:26:36,649
you are green.

1674
01:26:37,358 --> 01:26:40,320
You have no concept...
You know the music business,

1675
01:26:40,737 --> 01:26:42,906
but you don't know the business of music.

1676
01:26:43,198 --> 01:26:46,159
Making your money is the creative side.

1677
01:26:47,327 --> 01:26:49,996
Keeping your money is the Clarence side.

1678
01:26:50,705 --> 01:26:51,956
I'mma give it to you raw.

1679
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:55,043
Clarence makes sure
that you don't get fucked.

1680
01:26:56,127 --> 01:26:58,588
Straight up,
there's a lot of fuckin' going on

1681
01:26:58,671 --> 01:27:00,423
in the entertainment industry,

1682
01:27:00,590 --> 01:27:04,928
and if you are important
to the overall greater good,

1683
01:27:05,011 --> 01:27:07,513
he's gonna step in like Super Black Man.

1684
01:27:08,056 --> 01:27:09,432
When we went to meet him,

1685
01:27:09,515 --> 01:27:10,808
we also knew that...

1686
01:27:11,684 --> 01:27:14,062
you know, he handled Jimmy and Terry.

1687
01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,899
So, we needed to know him because...

1688
01:27:17,982 --> 01:27:20,526
- we wanted to be Jimmy and Terry.
- Yeah.

1689
01:27:20,610 --> 01:27:22,546
You know,
we wanted to follow in their footsteps.

1690
01:27:22,570 --> 01:27:24,906
- Exactly.
- And he was the gatekeeper.

1691
01:27:25,531 --> 01:27:27,659
I remember running into L.A. Reid
and Babyface.

1692
01:27:27,742 --> 01:27:28,618
And I remember

1693
01:27:28,701 --> 01:27:31,412
people thought we were in competition
with each other,

1694
01:27:31,496 --> 01:27:33,216
and we'd never even met
the brothers before.

1695
01:27:33,248 --> 01:27:34,488
But we met them, and L.A. said,

1696
01:27:34,540 --> 01:27:36,417
"Hey, can you introduce me
to Clarence Avant?"

1697
01:27:36,501 --> 01:27:39,254
And I said, "Yeah. Absolutely, we can."

1698
01:27:39,337 --> 01:27:41,506
First, let's just talk about
hearing about Babyface,

1699
01:27:41,589 --> 01:27:43,967
'cause I was trying to sing.
I was in college,

1700
01:27:44,050 --> 01:27:46,970
and one of my boys called me.
He said, "Man, give it up." "What?"

1701
01:27:47,053 --> 01:27:48,493
"You ain't heard of Babyface, dawg?"

1702
01:27:48,554 --> 01:27:50,348
He was terrible.
"Dawg. Look here, dawg."

1703
01:27:50,431 --> 01:27:53,935
I didn't put two and two together.
Babyface came from The Deele.

1704
01:27:54,018 --> 01:27:58,690
<i>♪ I want to be with you
Wherever, ever you are ♪</i>

1705
01:27:58,773 --> 01:28:00,775
<i>♪ I only think of you ♪</i>

1706
01:28:01,401 --> 01:28:03,528
<i>♪ On two occasions ♪</i>

1707
01:28:04,696 --> 01:28:07,490
<i>♪ That's day and night ♪</i>

1708
01:28:07,991 --> 01:28:10,660
<i>♪ I go for broke ♪</i>

1709
01:28:10,743 --> 01:28:12,578
When I heard that shit...

1710
01:28:12,662 --> 01:28:14,414
<i>♪ I go for broke ♪</i>

1711
01:28:14,497 --> 01:28:16,165
When I heard the motherfucker say...

1712
01:28:16,249 --> 01:28:18,501
<i>♪ I go for broke ♪</i>

1713
01:28:18,584 --> 01:28:20,420
I was in the mirror every day.

1714
01:28:20,503 --> 01:28:21,879
<i>♪ Bro... ♪</i>

1715
01:28:21,963 --> 01:28:23,089
This nigga's yodeling!

1716
01:28:23,172 --> 01:28:25,508
This motherfucker's making yodeling hot!

1717
01:28:25,591 --> 01:28:28,303
Clarence set up a series of meetings

1718
01:28:28,386 --> 01:28:30,805
with all of the top record executives:

1719
01:28:30,888 --> 01:28:32,890
Jerry Moss from A&M,

1720
01:28:33,516 --> 01:28:34,600
David Geffen,

1721
01:28:35,059 --> 01:28:37,854
Joe Smith was at Capitol Records,

1722
01:28:38,104 --> 01:28:40,440
and Clarence was the orchestrator.

1723
01:28:40,523 --> 01:28:45,194
He was, like, sort of the mediator,
the orchestrator, pulling it all together.

1724
01:28:45,278 --> 01:28:49,282
The next meeting was Clarence set us up
to go and see Clive Davis.

1725
01:28:49,866 --> 01:28:53,828
I said, "You know,
they're gonna complement, with an <i>E,</i>

1726
01:28:54,871 --> 01:28:58,249
the kind of operation that I had...

1727
01:28:59,208 --> 01:29:01,127
in the urban field."

1728
01:29:01,919 --> 01:29:03,880
Clarence, without question,

1729
01:29:03,963 --> 01:29:08,176
was an absolutely essential part
of how that deal came through.

1730
01:29:08,843 --> 01:29:11,512
The one thing that stands out was
that Clarence said,

1731
01:29:11,596 --> 01:29:13,431
"You must own your masters."

1732
01:29:14,098 --> 01:29:16,392
They were artists.
They were just singing.

1733
01:29:16,976 --> 01:29:20,396
You know, maybe if that's all
it was ever gonna do,

1734
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:21,689
they would've lasted...

1735
01:29:23,024 --> 01:29:24,024
ten years.

1736
01:29:24,317 --> 01:29:27,195
But Clarence said, "No, this how you put
the company together.

1737
01:29:27,278 --> 01:29:28,905
This how you do business.

1738
01:29:28,988 --> 01:29:30,990
This how you take all
of this talent that you have,

1739
01:29:31,074 --> 01:29:33,368
open it up,
and grab other people that are talented,

1740
01:29:33,451 --> 01:29:35,119
and now put them out."

1741
01:29:35,536 --> 01:29:39,207
If you look at the run of talent
that L.A. and Face signed to LaFace...

1742
01:29:39,290 --> 01:29:40,166
Take TLC,

1743
01:29:40,249 --> 01:29:42,543
which reinvented
the vocal group tradition.

1744
01:29:42,627 --> 01:29:45,421
<i>♪ Don't go chasing waterfalls ♪</i>

1745
01:29:45,505 --> 01:29:46,585
Take Toni Braxton.

1746
01:29:46,631 --> 01:29:50,426
<i>♪ Love shoulda brought you home ♪</i>

1747
01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:51,719
And you take Outkast,

1748
01:29:51,803 --> 01:29:53,603
which became one of
the most innovative groups

1749
01:29:53,679 --> 01:29:54,719
in the history of hip-hop.

1750
01:29:54,764 --> 01:29:57,016
<i>♪ So fresh, so clean
So fresh and so clean, clean ♪</i>

1751
01:29:57,100 --> 01:29:59,560
You have a really powerful label.

1752
01:30:00,395 --> 01:30:02,021
I mean, one after another,

1753
01:30:02,105 --> 01:30:03,940
we became a powerhouse.

1754
01:30:04,899 --> 01:30:07,735
He was an advocate for...

1755
01:30:07,819 --> 01:30:12,824
all of the creative people, you know,
the writers, the producers, arrangers.

1756
01:30:13,491 --> 01:30:17,870
Motown really expanded the power
of black music as pop music.

1757
01:30:17,954 --> 01:30:22,083
<i>♪ My girl, ooh</i>...<i> ♪</i>

1758
01:30:22,166 --> 01:30:25,420
When I sold Motown, I was thrilled

1759
01:30:25,503 --> 01:30:28,297
when Clarence became
the chairman of the board.

1760
01:30:29,382 --> 01:30:32,260
Alain Levy, chairman of PolyGram,

1761
01:30:32,343 --> 01:30:34,053
said it's a three-year deal.

1762
01:30:34,637 --> 01:30:37,682
I think it was either 600...
$650,000 a year.

1763
01:30:38,433 --> 01:30:40,143
with a $250,000 bonus,

1764
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:41,561
two-year option.

1765
01:30:42,103 --> 01:30:44,439
I got a piece of paper, said, "Damn!

1766
01:30:45,273 --> 01:30:48,276
Second mortgage is gone,
the first mortgage is gone.

1767
01:30:48,359 --> 01:30:50,361
I can pay Herbert and Jerry back.

1768
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:52,321
Free at last."

1769
01:30:55,283 --> 01:30:56,617
<i>♪ Hey, hey, hey</i>...<i> ♪</i>

1770
01:30:56,742 --> 01:30:59,370
Alain Levy made me
the new president of Motown.

1771
01:30:59,787 --> 01:31:01,205
It was to bring in new life.

1772
01:31:02,290 --> 01:31:04,500
I had Uptown Productions.

1773
01:31:04,959 --> 01:31:06,502
A lot of new groups out there,

1774
01:31:06,586 --> 01:31:09,297
making music that I think could turn
this company around.

1775
01:31:09,380 --> 01:31:12,175
Well! Who are these new groups?

1776
01:31:14,343 --> 01:31:15,803
<i>♪ Yo! Check this out! ♪</i>

1777
01:31:15,887 --> 01:31:19,140
<i>♪ I'm funky fresh Dr. Jeckyll
So cool up in the place ♪</i>

1778
01:31:19,223 --> 01:31:20,266
<i>♪ Uptown, Uptown! ♪</i>

1779
01:31:20,349 --> 01:31:21,934
I said, "Wait a minute."

1780
01:31:22,226 --> 01:31:23,895
I said, "What the fuck is this?"

1781
01:31:24,812 --> 01:31:28,441
Levy gave Andre $250,000.

1782
01:31:28,733 --> 01:31:29,984
Nobody asked me.

1783
01:31:30,610 --> 01:31:34,739
I was trying to transfer some
of the energy of Uptown into Motown,

1784
01:31:34,947 --> 01:31:36,532
so that artists would want to come.

1785
01:31:36,616 --> 01:31:38,826
Andre and I...

1786
01:31:39,952 --> 01:31:41,746
disagreed on a lot of things.

1787
01:31:44,332 --> 01:31:45,812
End of the day, it's a culture clash.

1788
01:31:45,875 --> 01:31:48,419
I think we'd call it, in medical terms,
organ rejection.

1789
01:31:49,003 --> 01:31:53,049
They gave you a company that was broken.
It'd been losing money for 12 years.

1790
01:31:54,425 --> 01:31:57,678
They couldn't expect you to turn it around
in a year or two!

1791
01:31:58,596 --> 01:32:01,140
I had only been president for 18 months.

1792
01:32:01,724 --> 01:32:03,893
They chose to make me the scapegoat.

1793
01:32:04,352 --> 01:32:05,352
Clarence was...

1794
01:32:06,187 --> 01:32:07,271
He was my protector.

1795
01:32:07,355 --> 01:32:10,066
My dad was... "Okay,
even if he deserves to be fired,

1796
01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:12,151
I have to get him his settlement package.

1797
01:32:12,235 --> 01:32:13,528
Because, in fairness,

1798
01:32:13,903 --> 01:32:15,279
if he were white,

1799
01:32:15,363 --> 01:32:16,822
he would get a severance package.

1800
01:32:16,906 --> 01:32:18,783
This guy,
he needs to get a severance package."

1801
01:32:18,866 --> 01:32:21,410
Yeah. I had a few arguments with Levy,
so what?

1802
01:32:21,494 --> 01:32:23,054
He was one of my closest friends there.

1803
01:32:23,079 --> 01:32:25,665
I have arguments with everybody. Shit.

1804
01:32:25,873 --> 01:32:28,459
I got Clarence Avant backing me up.

1805
01:32:29,210 --> 01:32:33,881
So the meeting lasts about three minutes,
and they said, "All right. No problem.

1806
01:32:33,965 --> 01:32:35,216
We'll take care of that."

1807
01:32:37,301 --> 01:32:41,806
He will sit at his desk with a pen
and a piece of paper

1808
01:32:42,723 --> 01:32:44,642
and he'll write it out,

1809
01:32:44,725 --> 01:32:46,435
"You know what? This will happen to this.

1810
01:32:46,519 --> 01:32:47,728
Okay, this was this and this."

1811
01:32:47,812 --> 01:32:51,482
And he formulates a map
of how to resolve it,

1812
01:32:51,566 --> 01:32:53,734
and then he puts it into action.

1813
01:32:55,778 --> 01:32:58,155
What he was doing, it had to do

1814
01:32:58,614 --> 01:33:01,784
with seeing
that everybody was treated right.

1815
01:33:01,867 --> 01:33:04,370
Seeing that things were fair,

1816
01:33:04,453 --> 01:33:05,830
that things were just.

1817
01:33:05,913 --> 01:33:09,208
He's been the only one like himself.

1818
01:33:09,292 --> 01:33:11,002
And, you know, a combination

1819
01:33:11,294 --> 01:33:15,006
of Reverend Sharpton, Martin Luther King,
Malcolm X of the record business.

1820
01:33:17,091 --> 01:33:18,593
Sometimes, Reggie, I say to myself,

1821
01:33:18,676 --> 01:33:21,345
"How in the fuck did I get involved
in all this shit?"

1822
01:33:22,805 --> 01:33:25,224
He does so much and sacrifices,

1823
01:33:25,308 --> 01:33:27,184
it's amazing.

1824
01:33:27,643 --> 01:33:31,314
People have trusted him for,
you know, all their lives.

1825
01:33:31,397 --> 01:33:34,609
And, I think, for me, it's something
that was conditioned from him.

1826
01:33:34,692 --> 01:33:37,987
The current job that I have
as an executive at a talent agency...

1827
01:33:38,321 --> 01:33:40,573
uh, lends that as well.

1828
01:33:41,198 --> 01:33:44,660
Whenever we saw anyone in distress
after Clarence helped us,

1829
01:33:44,994 --> 01:33:47,997
we'd say, "'All right, Clarence.
You gotta help these guys.

1830
01:33:48,497 --> 01:33:49,999
You gotta help these people."

1831
01:33:50,374 --> 01:33:51,500
And Clarence would help.

1832
01:33:52,209 --> 01:33:55,796
And I'm not just talking about music,
I'm talking about civil rights.

1833
01:33:56,213 --> 01:33:59,425
I'm talking about anything that had to do
with the rights of people,

1834
01:33:59,508 --> 01:34:02,637
creativity, just being able
to do your own thing,

1835
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:04,388
to voice your opinion.

1836
01:34:04,764 --> 01:34:07,433
Clarence gave you a place to do that...

1837
01:34:08,100 --> 01:34:10,102
and would protect you while you did it.

1838
01:34:10,561 --> 01:34:12,104
<i>♪ How you living, Biggie Smalls? ♪</i>

1839
01:34:12,188 --> 01:34:14,440
<i>♪ In mansion and Benzes
Giving ends to my friends... ♪</i>

1840
01:34:14,523 --> 01:34:16,150
He was only 24 years old,

1841
01:34:16,233 --> 01:34:19,528
was just starting what was expected
to be a promising career in music.

1842
01:34:19,612 --> 01:34:22,114
But tonight,
it's only what could have been.

1843
01:34:22,740 --> 01:34:26,202
The rap star had just left
the <i>Soul Train </i>Awards Party

1844
01:34:26,285 --> 01:34:27,370
and was sitting in his car

1845
01:34:27,453 --> 01:34:30,289
when a vehicle drove by,
and someone opened fire.

1846
01:34:30,373 --> 01:34:31,791
When Biggie died,

1847
01:34:31,874 --> 01:34:34,043
I saw another side of Clarence.

1848
01:34:34,126 --> 01:34:37,129
And he was really, really affected
by Biggie's death.

1849
01:34:38,339 --> 01:34:40,925
After Biggie's taken
to Cedars-Sinai Hospital.

1850
01:34:41,008 --> 01:34:43,010
It strikes everybody at the hospital,

1851
01:34:43,094 --> 01:34:46,138
after they get through the grief,
that they're all in danger.

1852
01:34:46,430 --> 01:34:48,724
And particularly, Mr. Sean Combs.

1853
01:34:49,225 --> 01:34:52,937
Since Biggie was on his label,
Puff was the likely next target.

1854
01:34:53,729 --> 01:34:55,439
Usually, Clarence gets the call

1855
01:34:55,523 --> 01:34:56,899
from a position of fear

1856
01:34:57,692 --> 01:35:02,154
because...
I called him like most people call him.

1857
01:35:02,238 --> 01:35:04,407
He's the one to call
when we're in trouble.

1858
01:35:05,700 --> 01:35:07,827
Because they worried
about people at airports

1859
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:10,287
looking for him, they drove to San Diego.

1860
01:35:10,913 --> 01:35:13,290
From San Diego,
a flight was booked to go to Miami.

1861
01:35:13,916 --> 01:35:17,503
So again, this was sort of masterminded

1862
01:35:17,586 --> 01:35:19,880
by... Clarence Avant.

1863
01:35:20,464 --> 01:35:21,966
'Cause we in the music industry,

1864
01:35:22,049 --> 01:35:23,968
everybody's getting caught up
into something.

1865
01:35:24,051 --> 01:35:27,346
You know, we were young, talented people,

1866
01:35:27,430 --> 01:35:30,766
never been hit with wealth or power.

1867
01:35:32,101 --> 01:35:35,187
You know, I'm sitting here
because he kept my ass outta jail,

1868
01:35:35,271 --> 01:35:36,647
like two, three times.

1869
01:35:36,731 --> 01:35:39,024
I'm cured now, though, everybody.

1870
01:35:39,108 --> 01:35:42,027
I'm cured. Everything's good, you know.

1871
01:35:42,111 --> 01:35:45,072
Y'all can have me over for dinner.
Everything is good,

1872
01:35:45,531 --> 01:35:47,408
thanks to the godfather, Clarence.

1873
01:35:47,491 --> 01:35:49,368
I would hear,
and I dunno if I'm overstepping,

1874
01:35:49,452 --> 01:35:51,036
but I would hear about people

1875
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:53,456
that were in very serious situations

1876
01:35:53,539 --> 01:35:55,624
when it came to... life.

1877
01:35:56,292 --> 01:35:57,543
Just life in general.

1878
01:35:58,085 --> 01:36:01,589
And they would say, "The only person
that can help you with this...

1879
01:36:02,381 --> 01:36:03,632
is Clarence Avant."

1880
01:36:06,427 --> 01:36:07,553
When I was...

1881
01:36:08,387 --> 01:36:10,347
...having difficulties
with Death Row Records

1882
01:36:10,431 --> 01:36:11,307
and Suge Knight,

1883
01:36:11,390 --> 01:36:13,934
there was a lot of call
for violence and action.

1884
01:36:15,561 --> 01:36:18,898
And the message that I received
from Clarence was just to be me

1885
01:36:18,981 --> 01:36:21,525
and to think about those kids
that's looking up to me,

1886
01:36:21,609 --> 01:36:23,736
and the youth that are inspired by me.

1887
01:36:23,819 --> 01:36:27,698
So one action that I create could be
a million actions that'll be followed.

1888
01:36:29,074 --> 01:36:30,868
You know, I was young and...

1889
01:36:31,577 --> 01:36:34,622
considered a gangster, or a thug,
or whatever you wanna call it,

1890
01:36:34,705 --> 01:36:38,042
and I didn't really want to hear it,
but I had to reevaluate the conversation

1891
01:36:38,125 --> 01:36:41,462
and say,
"Well, this man is a legend. An icon.

1892
01:36:41,545 --> 01:36:43,839
If he's taking his time
to deliver this message to me,

1893
01:36:43,923 --> 01:36:45,257
he must see something in me."

1894
01:36:45,341 --> 01:36:48,469
So it just made me take on
a stance of peace,

1895
01:36:48,552 --> 01:36:50,846
and it'll always be about peace
and be about love,

1896
01:36:51,222 --> 01:36:53,307
and to confront violence with love.

1897
01:36:54,391 --> 01:36:57,186
Clarence is the type of person
that wants everyone to do better

1898
01:36:57,269 --> 01:36:58,896
because he understands

1899
01:36:59,021 --> 01:37:03,025
that there are strength in numbers,
and the bigger that we are together,

1900
01:37:03,317 --> 01:37:06,111
the bigger we will be as a entire culture.

1901
01:37:06,195 --> 01:37:07,822
Never asked us for nothin'.

1902
01:37:08,405 --> 01:37:09,405
Never.

1903
01:37:09,448 --> 01:37:11,534
As far as monetary and stuff like that,

1904
01:37:11,617 --> 01:37:13,786
I just think that he does it
out of the love,

1905
01:37:13,869 --> 01:37:16,956
which makes me do it out of the love
with a lot of these young guys.

1906
01:37:17,039 --> 01:37:19,542
I'll be honest with you,
I've talked to, you know,

1907
01:37:19,625 --> 01:37:21,377
Jimmy, Terry,

1908
01:37:21,460 --> 01:37:23,754
L.A., Babyface, a lot of the guys,
so it was like,

1909
01:37:23,963 --> 01:37:25,464
"So, whatever happened

1910
01:37:25,548 --> 01:37:28,008
when he did this for you
and did that for you?

1911
01:37:28,092 --> 01:37:30,511
Did... Was there a cost to it?
Did you get a bill for it?"

1912
01:37:30,594 --> 01:37:32,304
"Nope! Never got a bill for it!"

1913
01:37:33,055 --> 01:37:34,932
I don't know how he made a living.

1914
01:37:35,015 --> 01:37:36,934
He never seemed to charge anybody.

1915
01:37:37,059 --> 01:37:39,520
Well, everybody comes to me for this,
that, this,

1916
01:37:39,603 --> 01:37:41,105
that, you know. And so,

1917
01:37:41,188 --> 01:37:43,065
if I like the people, why not?

1918
01:37:43,691 --> 01:37:45,067
He had an attitude.

1919
01:37:46,527 --> 01:37:48,279
Did you know he had an attitude?

1920
01:37:50,573 --> 01:37:52,324
He does not suffer fools lightly.

1921
01:37:52,741 --> 01:37:55,160
As much as he loves a good laugh

1922
01:37:55,619 --> 01:37:57,413
and a good story,

1923
01:37:57,580 --> 01:37:59,707
he does not suffer fools.

1924
01:37:59,790 --> 01:38:03,752
People get upset with my attitude,
but I don't give a fuck, you know.

1925
01:38:03,836 --> 01:38:06,589
He has this facade of being gruff,
and mean,

1926
01:38:06,672 --> 01:38:09,550
and "I don't give a damn!"
and "Get the fuck outta here!"

1927
01:38:09,633 --> 01:38:10,718
And blah, blah, blah.

1928
01:38:10,801 --> 01:38:12,595
All of that is just a facade.

1929
01:38:12,678 --> 01:38:15,139
In the middle of all that MF-ing...

1930
01:38:15,598 --> 01:38:17,057
is an extraordinary,

1931
01:38:17,725 --> 01:38:19,101
elegant man.

1932
01:38:19,184 --> 01:38:21,937
Part of the magic of Clarence is

1933
01:38:22,021 --> 01:38:24,398
there's so much more there
than what you see.

1934
01:38:25,024 --> 01:38:28,027
He doesn't talk in terms of emotion.

1935
01:38:28,110 --> 01:38:30,654
If you press him on...
"What is love, Clarence?"

1936
01:38:30,738 --> 01:38:32,498
"Do you love something
or someone loves you?"

1937
01:38:32,573 --> 01:38:34,158
He pushes back on that.

1938
01:38:34,241 --> 01:38:37,453
I think some people will see Clarence
and go, "Who's this gruff guy?

1939
01:38:37,536 --> 01:38:39,204
He's talkin' about money all the time."

1940
01:38:39,705 --> 01:38:42,708
That seems to be his overt way
he likes to present himself,

1941
01:38:42,791 --> 01:38:45,502
'cause he always talks about life
as numbers.

1942
01:38:45,586 --> 01:38:47,421
Well, life is about one thing: numbers.

1943
01:38:47,504 --> 01:38:48,923
Life is about numbers.

1944
01:38:49,006 --> 01:38:51,300
I told you, man.
Life is about numbers, didn't I?

1945
01:38:51,383 --> 01:38:52,843
- Yes, you did.
- Shit!

1946
01:38:52,927 --> 01:38:54,637
You come with one,
and you end with one.

1947
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,514
When is your birthday?

1948
01:38:58,599 --> 01:39:02,186
I remember when he collected
the million dollars for Bill Clinton,

1949
01:39:02,269 --> 01:39:04,313
which was unprecedented

1950
01:39:04,813 --> 01:39:07,024
in what that was gonna mean

1951
01:39:07,107 --> 01:39:09,568
for the consolidation of a voice
inside that,

1952
01:39:09,652 --> 01:39:11,403
and this is how you really are heard.

1953
01:39:11,487 --> 01:39:12,655
You know, this is how the...

1954
01:39:12,738 --> 01:39:16,784
He was also completely unfiltered
about this is how this game works.

1955
01:39:18,827 --> 01:39:21,830
You either join a country club,
or you remain a goddamn caddy.

1956
01:39:21,914 --> 01:39:23,165
I'm not a fuckin' caddy.

1957
01:39:24,792 --> 01:39:25,792
Period.

1958
01:39:26,919 --> 01:39:29,463
So, Bill Clinton
and I became very close friends.

1959
01:39:30,839 --> 01:39:33,199
He's real quiet
at first. He's reserved.

1960
01:39:33,258 --> 01:39:35,970
He doesn't exactly
throw himself at you. Um...

1961
01:39:36,095 --> 01:39:37,513
But I just liked him.

1962
01:39:38,514 --> 01:39:41,475
And I just kept being with him,
and I thought, "God, this guy's special."

1963
01:39:41,558 --> 01:39:44,311
He has put Bill Clinton's feet to the fire

1964
01:39:44,395 --> 01:39:46,105
in front of an audience...

1965
01:39:46,188 --> 01:39:49,066
to the point
that he will ask the questions

1966
01:39:49,149 --> 01:39:50,985
as to why and how

1967
01:39:51,068 --> 01:39:54,113
we can be really comfortable
that, once you get this job,

1968
01:39:54,196 --> 01:39:56,740
all the promises that you're making
to this community,

1969
01:39:56,824 --> 01:39:58,784
you're gonna really stand by them.
You know?

1970
01:39:58,867 --> 01:40:00,953
You know, like,
he would just straight up be like,

1971
01:40:01,036 --> 01:40:03,664
"Motherfucker, what're you gonna do
when you get the job?"

1972
01:40:03,747 --> 01:40:05,374
You know, I like that about him.

1973
01:40:05,457 --> 01:40:07,084
It's never gratuitous.

1974
01:40:07,167 --> 01:40:11,964
But if he has something to say
that's embellished, let's say, by a...

1975
01:40:12,047 --> 01:40:14,591
purple word,
he doesn't hesitate to use it.

1976
01:40:15,592 --> 01:40:19,430
I was invited to the White House
three months after he became president.

1977
01:40:19,513 --> 01:40:21,193
The fuck do I care
about Lincoln's bedroom?

1978
01:40:21,223 --> 01:40:23,434
I didn't see Lincoln
when we went in there,

1979
01:40:23,517 --> 01:40:25,620
so it doesn't make any difference to me.
Fuck it, man.

1980
01:40:25,644 --> 01:40:28,731
So we stayed, big deal. That's all.
Nothing like that don't move me.

1981
01:40:28,814 --> 01:40:30,024
Clarence...

1982
01:40:31,775 --> 01:40:36,030
hangin' out with Bill Clinton...
is a long way from Climax.

1983
01:40:38,407 --> 01:40:39,992
My favorite story...

1984
01:40:44,663 --> 01:40:48,250
is... deeply personal.

1985
01:40:49,877 --> 01:40:55,507
When the Republicans were trying
to run me outta town,

1986
01:40:56,925 --> 01:40:59,762
Clarence Avant looked at me and he said,

1987
01:41:00,512 --> 01:41:01,972
"Don't even think about it...

1988
01:41:04,933 --> 01:41:07,436
Don't even think about it." He said...

1989
01:41:08,062 --> 01:41:09,897
He said, "This ain't gonna happen...

1990
01:41:10,355 --> 01:41:11,565
unless you give in."

1991
01:41:13,442 --> 01:41:16,820
He said, "Don't spend a lot of time
on this in public. Do your job.

1992
01:41:17,488 --> 01:41:18,906
Let people see you working.

1993
01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:21,241
It ain't gonna happen."

1994
01:41:21,325 --> 01:41:23,160
You know, it was so Clarence.

1995
01:41:23,827 --> 01:41:25,037
You know, it was like...

1996
01:41:25,329 --> 01:41:28,499
now that's maybe selfish of me to say,
but that's my favorite story

1997
01:41:28,582 --> 01:41:32,044
'cause, you know,
when it's raining outside,

1998
01:41:32,419 --> 01:41:35,589
if a guy comes up with a little umbrella,
you feel pretty good.

1999
01:41:36,340 --> 01:41:37,966
And Clarence, for me,

2000
01:41:40,177 --> 01:41:42,888
has always had that umbrella.

2001
01:41:42,971 --> 01:41:45,349
Not just for me,
but for anybody he thought...

2002
01:41:46,225 --> 01:41:47,559
needed a handout.

2003
01:41:47,643 --> 01:41:48,852
Anybody he thought...

2004
01:41:49,770 --> 01:41:51,730
needed somebody to be a wall.

2005
01:41:52,106 --> 01:41:55,192
The guy's a rock. In every way.

2006
01:41:58,153 --> 01:42:00,193
So, Clarence is viewed in the party

2007
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:02,282
as being a go-to person

2008
01:42:02,366 --> 01:42:03,617
if not, you know,

2009
01:42:03,700 --> 01:42:07,329
part of that group of folks
that are called the king and queenmakers.

2010
01:42:07,412 --> 01:42:08,580
He's the kingmaker.

2011
01:42:08,872 --> 01:42:11,959
He not only is satisfied with that,
he realizes that that's where

2012
01:42:12,042 --> 01:42:15,754
he can be most effective,
and frankly, where he's most comfortable.

2013
01:42:20,634 --> 01:42:23,011
He would have parties at his home

2014
01:42:23,095 --> 01:42:25,848
that had great musicians
and great friends there.

2015
01:42:25,931 --> 01:42:28,142
And Clarence would be
at the grill barbecuing.

2016
01:42:28,225 --> 01:42:30,435
Jackie would be
in the kitchen hustling around.

2017
01:42:30,519 --> 01:42:32,354
All the kids would be playing together.

2018
01:42:34,481 --> 01:42:37,609
You could not be an African-American
candidate in this country

2019
01:42:37,693 --> 01:42:39,862
running for a serious office in anything

2020
01:42:39,945 --> 01:42:42,531
and not have consulted with Clarence Avant

2021
01:42:42,614 --> 01:42:44,533
on the way that things should be done.

2022
01:42:44,616 --> 01:42:45,909
The first fund-raiser I went to,

2023
01:42:45,993 --> 01:42:49,037
one of the first things he invited me
to was... from...

2024
01:42:49,121 --> 01:42:50,873
He wasn't even a senator yet...

2025
01:42:50,956 --> 01:42:52,249
was for Barack Obama.

2026
01:42:53,041 --> 01:42:56,170
He called me
about a young man in Chicago...

2027
01:42:59,423 --> 01:43:00,799
...named Barack Obama.

2028
01:43:01,925 --> 01:43:05,387
When it came time
for the convention in Boston...

2029
01:43:05,470 --> 01:43:09,391
uh, and I remember Barack called Clarence.

2030
01:43:10,058 --> 01:43:12,519
He said, "Clarence, they want me to speak,

2031
01:43:12,603 --> 01:43:14,188
but I'm not even prime time."

2032
01:43:15,272 --> 01:43:17,524
Who do you think made
that fuckin' telephone call?

2033
01:43:17,608 --> 01:43:20,736
To somebody in John Kerry's camp.
I don't know who the fuck it was...

2034
01:43:20,819 --> 01:43:22,237
He made that famous speech.

2035
01:43:22,529 --> 01:43:23,989
Barack Obama!

2036
01:43:26,700 --> 01:43:28,952
They moved Barack to prime time,

2037
01:43:29,036 --> 01:43:31,038
and then the whole country sees,

2038
01:43:31,496 --> 01:43:35,125
"No red state, no blue state.
These United States." It changed history.

2039
01:43:35,209 --> 01:43:38,587
There is not a liberal America
and a conservative America.

2040
01:43:38,670 --> 01:43:41,256
There is the United States of America.

2041
01:43:42,758 --> 01:43:46,428
There is not a black America,
and a white America,

2042
01:43:46,511 --> 01:43:49,473
and Latino America, and Asian America.

2043
01:43:49,556 --> 01:43:51,975
There's the United States of America.

2044
01:43:58,190 --> 01:44:00,943
Did I ever think
I'd see a black president? Hell no.

2045
01:44:01,902 --> 01:44:03,320
It wasn't in the card game.

2046
01:44:04,321 --> 01:44:06,281
When he said he was gonna run,

2047
01:44:07,824 --> 01:44:09,284
I thought he was nuts.

2048
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:11,370
I had a conversation with him

2049
01:44:11,453 --> 01:44:14,790
and explained why I thought
the moment was right,

2050
01:44:14,873 --> 01:44:18,460
and I'm not sure that Clarence
actually thought I could win,

2051
01:44:18,543 --> 01:44:20,879
but he was nice and encouraging anyway.

2052
01:44:22,506 --> 01:44:25,550
There is that generational issue,
and Clarence,

2053
01:44:25,634 --> 01:44:28,345
like Vernon Jordan and others,

2054
01:44:28,929 --> 01:44:31,473
they are really the bridge...

2055
01:44:32,891 --> 01:44:36,561
from a time where there was
almost no opportunity

2056
01:44:36,645 --> 01:44:39,648
to a time where doors began to open.

2057
01:44:40,691 --> 01:44:42,776
And they led the way

2058
01:44:43,110 --> 01:44:46,238
in politics, in business,

2059
01:44:46,321 --> 01:44:49,157
in the arts, in saying,

2060
01:44:49,241 --> 01:44:50,993
"You know, make room for us."

2061
01:44:52,244 --> 01:44:54,579
For most of their lives, oftentimes,

2062
01:44:55,747 --> 01:45:00,002
that door was just open a crack,
and success was tenuous.

2063
01:45:00,335 --> 01:45:03,588
And I would never challenge them...

2064
01:45:04,548 --> 01:45:08,552
sticking with some of the folks
who'd brung 'em to the dance.

2065
01:45:09,928 --> 01:45:12,115
When they were both running
against each other,

2066
01:45:12,139 --> 01:45:15,475
I remember going to my father,
and I said, "Listen, I like them both,

2067
01:45:15,559 --> 01:45:17,728
and I'm not against Hillary or anything,

2068
01:45:17,811 --> 01:45:19,604
but I feel like this...

2069
01:45:20,230 --> 01:45:23,400
Something's happening with Obama,
and I really want to be involved,

2070
01:45:23,483 --> 01:45:25,027
they're asking me to do things, and...

2071
01:45:25,110 --> 01:45:27,029
But if it's gonna be weird
with the Clintons...

2072
01:45:27,112 --> 01:45:28,872
He was so great.
He looked at me and he said,

2073
01:45:29,406 --> 01:45:30,490
"You're a grown woman.

2074
01:45:31,116 --> 01:45:32,784
You can make your own decision."

2075
01:45:33,201 --> 01:45:35,620
And I said,
"I'm really not against anybody."

2076
01:45:35,704 --> 01:45:36,747
He said, "No, go."

2077
01:45:36,830 --> 01:45:39,416
And then of course, he said,
"And he's not gonna win."

2078
01:45:39,916 --> 01:45:41,293
And I said,

2079
01:45:41,376 --> 01:45:42,627
"Dad, he's gonna win."

2080
01:45:42,711 --> 01:45:45,881
He said he had...
No chance in hell, is Obama gonna win.

2081
01:45:47,132 --> 01:45:48,592
- Didn't you?
- Yep!

2082
01:45:49,634 --> 01:45:54,348
Nicole, in coming
on-board very early on my campaign,

2083
01:45:54,973 --> 01:45:56,058
in her own way,

2084
01:45:56,141 --> 01:45:58,268
she was expressing values
that had been taught to her

2085
01:45:58,352 --> 01:46:01,605
by Clarence and Jackie.
And part of that is independent thinking

2086
01:46:01,688 --> 01:46:03,940
and... making up your own mind, and...

2087
01:46:04,358 --> 01:46:07,110
uh, I... I'd like to think that...

2088
01:46:07,736 --> 01:46:10,489
Clarence didn't necessarily mind
being proven wrong.

2089
01:46:11,573 --> 01:46:13,033
Don't think he didn't rub it in.

2090
01:46:13,116 --> 01:46:14,659
Obama! Obama!

2091
01:46:14,743 --> 01:46:16,787
- Thank you.
- Obama! Obama!

2092
01:46:16,870 --> 01:46:17,913
Thank you!

2093
01:46:17,996 --> 01:46:19,289
God bless you,

2094
01:46:19,373 --> 01:46:21,541
and God bless
the United States of America.

2095
01:46:24,002 --> 01:46:25,462
After the inauguration,

2096
01:46:25,545 --> 01:46:28,173
I became an ambassador to the Bahamas.

2097
01:46:28,715 --> 01:46:32,219
You know, and then the best part
for me about the whole ambassadorship

2098
01:46:32,302 --> 01:46:35,055
was having my father's longtime friend,

2099
01:46:35,430 --> 01:46:39,518
as a Secretary of State, swearing me in.
She didn't do a lot of ambassadors.

2100
01:46:41,186 --> 01:46:44,981
He came to Washington, and I saw this...
I had never seen it before...

2101
01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:48,318
of beaming with such pride.

2102
01:46:49,277 --> 01:46:53,740
For him, it was like all this shit
finally came together to make sense.

2103
01:46:54,199 --> 01:46:57,202
I'm sure that he was enormously proud,
and rightfully so,

2104
01:46:57,285 --> 01:46:59,246
because Nicole served our country well.

2105
01:47:00,122 --> 01:47:03,333
I did most everything
I wanted to do in life,

2106
01:47:03,583 --> 01:47:07,170
except being Warren Buffett
or Bill Gates.

2107
01:47:07,754 --> 01:47:09,381
Alex, what about you?

2108
01:47:09,464 --> 01:47:11,692
You ever feel pressured
to live up to your father's name?

2109
01:47:11,716 --> 01:47:14,094
- Oh, shit.
- What's that supposed to mean?

2110
01:47:14,177 --> 01:47:16,197
- Well..
- Let Alex answer the question.

2111
01:47:16,221 --> 01:47:18,515
- It's a big deal. See?
- Every day. Every day.

2112
01:47:18,598 --> 01:47:20,392
- Oh, I see.
- See?

2113
01:47:20,475 --> 01:47:21,475
Every day.

2114
01:47:22,227 --> 01:47:23,227
For sure.

2115
01:47:24,688 --> 01:47:27,357
It was harder on Alex
because of his gender, I think.

2116
01:47:27,441 --> 01:47:28,567
For me,

2117
01:47:28,650 --> 01:47:30,944
I had a different tape in my head,
which was,

2118
01:47:31,027 --> 01:47:32,187
"I'm saying yes to everything

2119
01:47:32,237 --> 01:47:34,397
because I'm Clarence Avant's daughter,
so I'm doing it.

2120
01:47:34,448 --> 01:47:36,450
I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this."

2121
01:47:36,533 --> 01:47:38,994
But it was always
because I was his daughter.

2122
01:47:39,703 --> 01:47:43,665
It was, like, amazing to be raised
from my mom and my dad.

2123
01:47:43,748 --> 01:47:46,084
But, you know, everyone was like,

2124
01:47:46,168 --> 01:47:47,919
"I need to holla at your dad!"

2125
01:47:48,003 --> 01:47:49,796
So it's kind of...
sometimes it's kinda crazy

2126
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,215
'cause they take a lot of time. A lot.

2127
01:47:52,799 --> 01:47:56,428
They're taking the father-son time away
or, you know, son-father time away,

2128
01:47:56,511 --> 01:47:57,721
sometimes, it feels.

2129
01:48:01,892 --> 01:48:04,603
My father... I'll never forget it
'cause this, like, makes me cry.

2130
01:48:04,686 --> 01:48:06,146
Uh. Whoo.

2131
01:48:08,607 --> 01:48:10,734
Um...

2132
01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:14,488
It's like, you know, he's like,

2133
01:48:14,696 --> 01:48:16,823
"You know,
I don't know how long I'm gonna be here."

2134
01:48:20,952 --> 01:48:23,205
It's weird because sometimes people say,

2135
01:48:24,706 --> 01:48:27,626
"Shit, when he goes,
who're we gonna call?"

2136
01:48:30,504 --> 01:48:32,714
And for me, it's like,
"Who am I gonna call?"

2137
01:48:35,717 --> 01:48:36,717
It's tough.

2138
01:48:38,512 --> 01:48:39,554
It's tough.

2139
01:48:46,228 --> 01:48:49,731
I told him the other day,
I said, "If you left this planet tomorrow,

2140
01:48:50,190 --> 01:48:51,942
you fulfilled your purpose.

2141
01:48:53,109 --> 01:48:56,530
It was very clear what your purpose was.
That's... It's obvious."

2142
01:48:57,113 --> 01:48:58,573
And he never wavered from it.

2143
01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:01,618
Never. No matter what business he was in.

2144
01:49:01,701 --> 01:49:03,620
Didn't matter if he was promoting a tour,

2145
01:49:03,703 --> 01:49:06,164
running a record company,
running a radio station.

2146
01:49:06,248 --> 01:49:08,416
He knew his purpose, head-on,

2147
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:11,503
was black people
are going to move forward.

2148
01:49:12,921 --> 01:49:16,424
He'll take something
that was impossible and make it possible,

2149
01:49:16,508 --> 01:49:18,343
because he'll bring the parties together

2150
01:49:18,426 --> 01:49:21,972
and make them understand the concept,
the overall vision of it.

2151
01:49:22,556 --> 01:49:25,809
Then he makes you realize
your responsibility

2152
01:49:25,892 --> 01:49:27,352
to whatever it is,

2153
01:49:27,435 --> 01:49:30,772
and then your responsibility
to give to the next one.

2154
01:49:30,855 --> 01:49:31,940
Each one, teach one.

2155
01:49:32,399 --> 01:49:33,525
Everybody's giving.

2156
01:49:34,109 --> 01:49:35,860
And then the spirit gets bigger
and bigger,

2157
01:49:35,944 --> 01:49:38,321
and the circle gets bigger and bigger.

2158
01:49:38,405 --> 01:49:41,074
And you keep touching, and moving,
and shaking.

2159
01:49:41,157 --> 01:49:43,952
And Clarence exposed us to that world.

2160
01:49:44,828 --> 01:49:47,080
Look at, like, that artistic journey

2161
01:49:47,163 --> 01:49:48,623
and put anything in between it.

2162
01:49:48,707 --> 01:49:51,501
Little Willie John is all the way
over here,

2163
01:49:51,668 --> 01:49:54,212
and Michael Jackson's right there
in the middle,

2164
01:49:54,296 --> 01:49:58,258
and then there's Bobby Brown,
and then there's Alexander O'Neal,

2165
01:49:58,341 --> 01:50:01,386
and then go another layer,
and then you go from Quincy Jones

2166
01:50:01,469 --> 01:50:05,682
to L.A. and Babyface, and Jimmy Jam
and Terry Lewis, and Teddy Riley,

2167
01:50:05,765 --> 01:50:07,726
and the list goes on and on and on.

2168
01:50:07,809 --> 01:50:09,853
It's not even like he's a bridge.

2169
01:50:10,312 --> 01:50:11,396
He's the way!

2170
01:50:12,230 --> 01:50:14,441
You know, we call him the godfather
as our parent.

2171
01:50:14,524 --> 01:50:16,276
You know, we're all children of Clarence.

2172
01:50:16,359 --> 01:50:18,278
We're all children of Clarence.
And it's weird

2173
01:50:18,361 --> 01:50:21,114
because sometimes you don't even know
the other children of Clarence

2174
01:50:21,197 --> 01:50:23,366
until you see them do something
or say something.

2175
01:50:23,450 --> 01:50:24,909
You're like, "Wait a minute.

2176
01:50:24,993 --> 01:50:28,955
You don't just say that.
That came from this bloodline."

2177
01:50:30,624 --> 01:50:32,042
What the fuck is this?

2178
01:50:34,127 --> 01:50:35,629
Now I'm getting nervous.

2179
01:50:37,297 --> 01:50:40,634
Do you think it's possible
for there to be another Clarence Avant?

2180
01:50:41,301 --> 01:50:42,218
No.

2181
01:50:42,302 --> 01:50:44,846
There could never be another Clarence.

2182
01:50:44,929 --> 01:50:46,809
I don't feel comfortable
answering that question

2183
01:50:46,848 --> 01:50:48,266
'cause it sounds a little crazy.

2184
01:50:48,350 --> 01:50:49,726
I don't... I don't wanna...

2185
01:50:49,809 --> 01:50:52,062
That's not something
I'm not even trying to think about.

2186
01:50:52,145 --> 01:50:54,564
You only find one of those people.

2187
01:50:54,648 --> 01:50:57,233
You don't find more than one.

2188
01:50:57,317 --> 01:50:59,194
There will never be
another Clarence Avant.

2189
01:50:59,277 --> 01:51:02,405
However, his goal is to plant seeds,

2190
01:51:02,489 --> 01:51:04,616
so that there can be individuals
just like him.

2191
01:51:04,699 --> 01:51:07,744
We all trying to live by his...
the example that he set, a'ight?

2192
01:51:07,827 --> 01:51:10,205
Which is, you know,
share what you've learned

2193
01:51:10,288 --> 01:51:11,623
with the next generation.

2194
01:51:11,706 --> 01:51:14,417
He actually says...
he has said it to me many times.

2195
01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:17,879
He's like, "Baby, you gotta get
your generation to be active.

2196
01:51:18,213 --> 01:51:19,047
I'm tired.

2197
01:51:20,882 --> 01:51:22,175
This should be fun.

2198
01:51:22,300 --> 01:51:23,343
Oh, yeah.

2199
01:51:30,850 --> 01:51:34,312
- My main man!
- Hey, what's up? What's up?

2200
01:51:34,896 --> 01:51:35,896
Hi.

2201
01:51:36,856 --> 01:51:38,817
- A star is born.
- That's right!

2202
01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:40,402
And so today,

2203
01:51:41,444 --> 01:51:42,444
my man,

2204
01:51:42,862 --> 01:51:46,074
they gonna put your name
on the Walk of Fame.

2205
01:51:49,160 --> 01:51:50,203
Thank you.

2206
01:51:51,538 --> 01:51:52,539
Wow!

2207
01:51:54,290 --> 01:51:57,669
<i>♪ Sometimes in our life... ♪</i>

2208
01:51:58,503 --> 01:52:01,923
Because it isn't always about the money.

2209
01:52:02,006 --> 01:52:03,341
Well, he would beg to differ.

2210
01:52:03,425 --> 01:52:07,846
Yeah, I know. He would beg to differ,
but I would argue that

2211
01:52:07,929 --> 01:52:09,389
that's part of his game.

2212
01:52:09,472 --> 01:52:10,640
'Cause...

2213
01:52:10,724 --> 01:52:13,268
I believe what's most important
to Clarence Avant

2214
01:52:13,351 --> 01:52:15,103
has nothing to do with money.

2215
01:52:15,186 --> 01:52:18,481
And he will argue it all day long,
but I disagree completely.

2216
01:52:18,565 --> 01:52:20,150
It has to do with

2217
01:52:20,233 --> 01:52:23,945
how much did it help you,
help your family,

2218
01:52:24,028 --> 01:52:25,321
and help your people,

2219
01:52:25,864 --> 01:52:26,990
help everyone?

2220
01:52:27,574 --> 01:52:29,134
Thank you for doing what you do.

2221
01:52:29,159 --> 01:52:30,744
We will take this
to the next generation

2222
01:52:30,827 --> 01:52:31,995
and keep on going.

2223
01:52:35,707 --> 01:52:39,669
If he felt like you were
going out there and doing for others

2224
01:52:39,753 --> 01:52:41,379
as he's tried to do for you...

2225
01:52:42,338 --> 01:52:43,173
then I think

2226
01:52:43,256 --> 01:52:46,301
he would feel much better
about not getting that.

2227
01:52:46,384 --> 01:52:49,721
But if he feels like he did all this,
and you did nothing...

2228
01:52:50,305 --> 01:52:52,557
with it, and you helped no one,

2229
01:52:53,141 --> 01:52:54,476
then that was a bad investment.

2230
01:52:54,559 --> 01:52:57,437
- Yeah.
- Of my time and my love.

2231
01:52:58,480 --> 01:53:01,524
That's why we'll always have respect
for Clarence Avant, 'cause in the...

2232
01:53:01,608 --> 01:53:02,608
in the end,

2233
01:53:03,526 --> 01:53:05,570
he's got family. He's the first family,

2234
01:53:05,653 --> 01:53:07,947
and that ain't been about money,
that's about love.

2235
01:53:08,031 --> 01:53:09,991
Let's get that family together.

2236
01:53:10,992 --> 01:53:12,035
That's the example.

2237
01:53:12,327 --> 01:53:16,039
<i>♪ Oh, lean on me ♪</i>

2238
01:53:17,749 --> 01:53:20,668
Hey, man, I had a good life thus far.

2239
01:53:21,044 --> 01:53:23,147
If I wake up tomorrow morning,
and I'm Warren Buffett,

2240
01:53:23,171 --> 01:53:24,464
I'll have a better life.

2241
01:53:31,221 --> 01:53:34,015
You know, whenever I see Clarence,
he always gives me a hug,

2242
01:53:34,098 --> 01:53:35,683
and cusses me out,

2243
01:53:35,767 --> 01:53:38,144
and then ask me what I'm doing.

2244
01:53:38,228 --> 01:53:40,998
Know what I mean? He's like,
"Motherfucker, what are you talking about?

2245
01:53:41,022 --> 01:53:43,107
You know, I mean,
that's some bullshit!"

2246
01:53:43,191 --> 01:53:45,610
Clarence had that old,
by the bayou cussing.

2247
01:53:45,693 --> 01:53:47,529
"Now, you get your mother <i>fucking</i> ass."

2248
01:53:47,612 --> 01:53:50,365
You know, how you got
that inflection like that.

2249
01:53:50,448 --> 01:53:52,325
"You get your mother <i>fucking</i> ass!"

2250
01:53:52,408 --> 01:53:54,327
For me, he's called me

2251
01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:56,996
every kind of name
you can probably think of.

2252
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:01,835
Clarence would be on the phone,
calling the president of a studio an MF.

2253
01:54:01,918 --> 01:54:03,753
What the fuck is he doing?

2254
01:54:03,837 --> 01:54:05,630
"What the fuck was that?
What y'all doing?<i>"</i>

2255
01:54:05,713 --> 01:54:08,383
You've never been cussed out
till Clarence cusses you out.

2256
01:54:08,466 --> 01:54:10,093
A Clarence curse-out was like...

2257
01:54:10,677 --> 01:54:12,262
"Wow, that was great."

2258
01:54:13,304 --> 01:54:14,889
Like Stockholm Syndrome.

2259
01:54:16,933 --> 01:54:19,394
"All right, motherfucker!
Let's go get paid!

2260
01:54:19,727 --> 01:54:21,062
Let's go get paid!"

2261
01:54:21,145 --> 01:54:23,345
Most affectionate "motherfucker"
anybody could give you.

2262
01:54:23,398 --> 01:54:24,232
Yeah.

2263
01:54:24,315 --> 01:54:25,650
It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde.

2264
01:54:25,733 --> 01:54:28,111
You can't believe that we're talking
about the same...

2265
01:54:29,863 --> 01:54:32,198
eloquent person that we know so well.

2266
01:54:32,282 --> 01:54:34,909
You know, I've been called motherfucker
so much by Clarence,

2267
01:54:34,993 --> 01:54:37,412
I thought "motherfucker"
was my middle...

2268
01:54:37,495 --> 01:54:38,997
Clarence has never cursed me out,

2269
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:41,457
I am so proud to say.

2270
01:54:43,918 --> 01:54:47,005
Now, when y'all through with me,
how much y'all paying me for all this?

2271
01:54:48,214 --> 01:54:49,507
<i>♪ To bring the light ♪</i>

2272
01:54:56,723 --> 01:55:00,518
<i>♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪</i>

2273
01:55:06,858 --> 01:55:10,820
<i>♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪</i>

2274
01:55:10,904 --> 01:55:14,616
<i>♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪</i>

2275
01:55:14,699 --> 01:55:16,701
<i>♪ So I toast him tonight ♪</i>

2276
01:55:27,003 --> 01:55:30,256
<i>♪ When your trajectory was off ♪</i>

2277
01:55:35,678 --> 01:55:37,972
<i>♪ And couldn't find true north ♪</i>

2278
01:55:38,431 --> 01:55:39,807
<i>♪ Just lost ♪</i>

2279
01:55:44,354 --> 01:55:48,816
<i>♪ He would say,
"Protect him at all costs" ♪</i>

2280
01:55:53,988 --> 01:55:57,867
<i>♪ Then he would hang up the call ♪</i>

2281
01:56:00,954 --> 01:56:06,709
<i>♪ But we
We can still hug him now ♪</i>

2282
01:56:12,131 --> 01:56:15,885
<i>♪ After all these years ♪</i>

2283
01:56:21,015 --> 01:56:24,894
<i>♪ 'Cause when the darkness comes ♪</i>

2284
01:56:30,483 --> 01:56:33,778
<i>♪ He's our chandelier ♪</i>

2285
01:56:36,030 --> 01:56:38,032
<i>♪ To bring the light ♪</i>

2286
01:56:44,998 --> 01:56:48,501
<i>♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪</i>

2287
01:56:54,841 --> 01:56:58,845
<i>♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪</i>

2288
01:56:58,928 --> 01:57:02,640
<i>♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪</i>

2289
01:57:02,724 --> 01:57:04,976
<i>♪ So I toast him tonight ♪</i>