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  1. [3:09:03 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Ping
  2. [3:09:19 AM] Bill Shihara: Pong
  3. [3:09:57 AM] Bill Shihara: Is the reported issue with the DAO real?
  4. [3:10:17 AM] Vitalik Buterin: as far as we can tell yes
  5. [3:10:33 AM] Mike Li: Where can I find the report?
  6. [3:10:54 AM] Vitalik Buterin:
  7. [3:10:55 AM] Vitalik Buterin: active thread
  8. [3:11:06 AM] Alex Hanin:
  9. [3:11:07 AM] Mike Li: Thank you VB
  10. [3:11:19 AM] Vitalik Buterin: possible mitigation strategies are:
  11. [3:11:21 AM] Bill Shihara: Thanks.  There is a lot of panic so a clear statement from the DAO and ETH team's would be extremely helpful.  At this point, people are speculating that griff's account was hacked.
  12. [3:11:29 AM] Vitalik Buterin: 1. seizing any stolen either that goes through exchanges
  13. [3:11:38 AM] Vitalik Buterin: 2. there is one person who will split within 2 hours
  14. [3:11:40 AM] Vitalik Buterin: if we can contact him
  15. [3:11:49 AM] Vitalik Buterin: then we may be able to copy the attack and recover a large portion of it
  16. [3:12:15 AM] *** Vitalik Buterin added Christoph Jentzsch ***
  17. [3:13:23 AM] *** Vitalik Buterin added Stelian Balta ***
  18. [3:14:11 AM] Bill Shihara: Has the hacker already received more than they should have via their split?  If so, we'll need to be prepared for #1.
  19. [3:14:16 AM] Vitalik Buterin: much more
  20. [3:14:18 AM] Vitalik Buterin: 3m+
  21. [3:15:58 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Is any of it safe, or could this proceed until there is nothing left?
  22. [3:20:22 AM] *** George Hallam [ETH]  added Jesse ***
  23. [3:22:02 AM] Jesse: Hi guys.  catching up on the conversation now
  24. [3:22:51 AM] Alex Hanin: This will surely test the resilience of ETH - let's keep faith in VB and others to mitigate this. Good luck!
  25. [3:35:40 AM | Removed 3:37:43 AM] Shawn: This message has been removed.
  26. [3:41:38 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : ALL EXCHANGES: please pause ether trading as soon as possible
  27. [3:41:56 AM] Jesse: why pause trading?
  28. [3:41:59 AM] Aurélien MENANT: done :p
  29. [3:42:56 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: That's a pretty serious measure, is the stolen ETH moving?
  30. [3:42:57 AM] Alex Hanin: Can you please elaborate on this pause?
  32. [3:43:01 AM] Vitalik Buterin: ok can you guys stop trading
  33. [3:43:05 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Okay
  34. [3:43:10 AM] Bill Shihara: Stopping the trading will stop the hacker from liquidating.  but that may be penalizing legit traders significantly
  35. [3:43:11 AM] Vitalik Buterin: and deposits and withdrawals
  37. [3:43:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Okay, not trading then...
  38. [3:43:38 AM] Jesse: we can do withdrawals.  haven’t heard the case for trading yet
  39. [3:43:48 AM] Shawn: wouldn't it be better to just pause withdrawal?
  40. [3:43:50 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Deposits and withdrawals frozen on Polo
  41. [3:43:57 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: For ETH
  42. [3:44:22 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Does anyone have any contacts at Bitfinex?
  43. [3:44:34 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : europe timezone based would be best
  44. [3:44:36 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : cant reach them
  45. [3:44:52 AM] dino: The ethereum foundation can reimburse exchange losses. Without a hard fork and rollback this damage will be permanent and the ecosystem will die.
  46. [3:45:10 AM] Jesse: the foundation hasn’t reimbursed prior losses
  47. [3:45:19 AM] Aurélien MENANT: can we get our 185k eth back?
  48. [3:45:20 AM] Shawn: exchange trades are off chain anyways
  49. [3:45:31 AM] Bill Shihara: You are considering a rollback?  that's a significant step.
  50. [3:45:36 AM] Alex Hanin: wtf?
  51. [3:45:38 AM] Bill Shihara: Bittrex ETH wallet is disabled.
  52. [3:46:06 AM] Shawn: no fish without a hook in the water
  53. [3:46:22 AM] dino: This happened with Bitcoin in 2013.  Exchanges rolled back trades.
  54. [3:46:44 AM] dino: We can also blacklist the addresses stealing the DAO ether
  55. [3:46:46 AM] Alex Hanin: this is not happening - and I cannot get hold of my boss
  56. [3:46:55 AM] Shawn: the concern would be that fast responding exchanges shut down and the thief goes to slow responders
  57. [3:47:19 AM] dino: Hanin. Go to his house and wake him up
  58. [3:47:21 AM | Edited 3:50:30 AM] Shawn: whereas if fast responding exchanges leave deposits open and only stop withdrawals the chances of catching it would be better
  59. [3:47:32 AM] Alex Hanin: I am in the UK and he's in Canada :) gonna be hard
  60. [3:47:45 AM] Alex Hanin: I will shut down withdrawals
  61. [3:47:48 AM] Alex Hanin: but that's all I can do
  62. [3:47:57 AM] dino: Shut down everything.
  63. [3:48:01 AM] dino: If you can.
  64. [3:48:07 AM] Alex Hanin: what do you mean everything?
  65. [3:48:10 AM] Jesse: lol
  66. [3:48:17 AM] Shawn: shut the internet
  67. [3:48:19 AM] dino: Everyone needs to contact all exchanges. Shut down trading and withdrawals
  68. [3:48:28 AM] Alex Hanin: right
  69. [3:50:24 AM] *** Mike Li added 荣海 施 ***
  70. [3:53:32 AM] Bill Shihara: What can I say publicly about the ETH wallet being disabled?
  71. [3:54:00 AM] Bill Shihara: "ETH wallet disabled at request of Ethereum Foundation" ?  I don't want to cause more panic
  72. [3:54:01 AM] Jesse: just point to
  73. [3:54:30 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Anyone got a contact at bitfinex?
  74. [3:54:35 AM] dino: Tell them it is a precautionary measure until a solution is determined
  75. [3:54:52 AM] dino: I do. I've been pining Phil Potter.
  76. [3:57:06 AM] Bill Shihara: Ok.  So our wallets are disabled.  Have we agreed to disable trading?
  77. [3:57:37 AM] Jesse: we’ve also disabled withdrawals.  not disabling trading yet
  78. [3:58:21 AM] dino: Trading must be disabled. It is likely a hard fork will be needed to fix the hack.
  79. [4:00:11 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Disabling trading is about as extreme as it gets. Why are we being asked to do this? Is it only to prevent the attacker from cashing out?
  80. [4:00:13 AM] Alex Hanin: disabled ETH withdrawals
  81. [4:01:00 AM] Alex Hanin: It's going to p*ss off a lot of people that want to get rid of ETH and may lead to loss of business - I need to wait for management to agree to this
  82. [4:01:23 AM] Alex Hanin: I cannot close ETH trading without the proper consent
  83. [4:02:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: We need to know why before we do that -- we may have a better way of addressing the issue
  84. [4:02:34 AM] Shawn: ok so the argument to pause eth trading is that stopping withdrawal only shuts one exit
  85. [4:02:58 AM | Edited 4:03:31 AM] Shawn: but there are N exits and you don't want to close all of them, so shutting down eth trading at least allows the other exits to continue working
  86. [4:03:20 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Have the stolen funds moved from the address they were collecting in?
  87. [4:03:43 AM] dino: Is poloniex on this chat?
  88. [4:04:27 AM] Shawn:
  89. [4:04:28 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: One doesn't just move millions of ETH through an exchange, most of it is pretty likely to be caught
  90. [4:05:11 AM] Aurélien MENANT: I think the eth were destroyed
  91. [4:05:23 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Are there any internal transactions that moved the ETH? etherscan is down...
  92. [4:05:24 AM] Alex Hanin: ok shutting down trading
  93. [4:05:27 AM] Alex Hanin: got the go ahead
  94. [4:05:43 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Far more important to track the ETH than shut down trading
  95. [4:05:55 AM] Bill Shihara: If you are considering a roll back, we also need to disable all of the ETH dependent tokens too.
  96. [4:06:13 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: A roll back would be a good reason to freeze trading
  97. [4:06:29 AM] Jesse: ^ agree
  98. [4:06:35 AM] Shawn: pausing trading would just be a stop-gap
  99. [4:06:57 AM] Bill Shihara: A roll back doesn't need to affect trading if the Ethereum Foundation is going to make all of the exchanges whole.
  100. [4:07:16 AM] Bill Shihara: we'll still be able to account for every ETH traded
  101. [4:07:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It isn't effective if you want to catch the stolen funds -- it's just a huge signal to the attacker that says "Not yet..."
  102. [4:07:32 AM] Shawn: the key is to keep an eye out for the relevant ether
  103. [4:07:36 AM] Aurélien MENANT: yes but what if some eth traded were deposited after the roll back?
  104. [4:08:28 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: If there are no internal transactions that moved ETH from that address, the deposit freeze will block him cashing out for now
  105. [4:08:35 AM | Edited 4:08:55 AM] Jesse: I haven’t heard anything from the Foundation about making exchanges “whole”.  There is reputational damage to consider when meddling with the market
  106. [4:08:46 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: If they got any to Polo, it isn't much
  107. [4:10:33 AM] *** Tristan D'Agosta added Craig Sellars ***
  108. [4:11:15 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Hi guys - more updates coming very soon from us
  109. [4:11:31 AM] Bill Shihara: Thanks.  Its 2am here.
  110. [4:11:49 AM] Bill Shihara: So any updates you can provide that will allow me to get to bed would be great :)
  111. [4:11:54 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : We are incredibly appreciative of you all pulling together on this.
  112. [4:12:13 AM] Alex Hanin: how can you sleep - the internet is in meltdown lol
  113. [4:12:14 AM] Aurélien MENANT: why does it always happen on Friday nights...
  114. [4:12:21 AM] Bill Shihara: btw, I just want to clarify that this was an issue with how the DAO split function was coded and not a problem with the smart contract infrastructure in general
  115. [4:12:46 AM | Edited 4:12:59 AM] Alex Hanin: pointing the finger will happen soon enough - right now we need to get out of this mess
  117. [4:12:58 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Thank you Dino
  118. [4:13:13 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Why -- is a blockchain roll back a possibility?
  119. [4:13:28 AM] Bill Shihara: this isn't a matter of finger pointing.  I want to know if there are other tokens or other ETH derivatives that I need to take offline
  120. [4:13:32 AM] Alex Hanin: what are the implications of a rollback if I may ask?
  121. [4:13:40 AM] dino: Busoni, maybe. We don't know yet. The safe path is freezing trades.
  122. [4:13:44 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It invalidates deposits
  123. [4:13:47 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Maybe is enough
  125. [4:14:31 AM] *** Craig Sellars added Philip G. Potter ***
  126. [4:14:51 AM] Craig Sellars: Dino - for clarification, Bitfinex has PAUSED WITHDRAWALS, we have not paused trading.
  127. [4:15:08 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Oh, for Christ's sake
  128. [4:15:12 AM] dino: The safe thing to do now is pause either trading and/or withdrawals
  129. [4:15:17 AM] *** Jesse added Stephan Tual [] ***
  130. [4:15:33 AM] dino: Vitalik is on a security call r right now with the core team to push an update asap
  131. [4:15:37 AM] Mathias: Guys, I understand the stress you are all in at the moment.
  132. But please keep the big picture in mind :
  133. What we are facing is a crappy smart contract, and careless investors. This is their risk of investing without proper due diligence.
  134. Don't risk the reputation of Ethereum as an independent, decentralized platform because of it by taking hasty measures like hard forks or roll  backs .
  135. Doing so will create a highly dangerous precedent, giving political authorities an entry whenever required in the future!
  136. [4:15:46 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Do you know what block the rollback might be to?
  137. [4:15:47 AM] Shawn: keep in mind that ether comes in, trades to btc, then leaves as btc
  138. [4:15:59 AM] Shawn: so you might want to pause btc withdrawals too then
  139. [4:16:04 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: No ether is coming in, that has nothing to do with trades
  140. [4:16:08 AM] Philip G. Potter: HF that fucks exchanges is completely unaccpetable
  141. [4:16:54 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Has anyone frozen trades?
  142. [4:16:55 AM] Shawn: the safe thing is to either pause trading or make sure you can filter the deposits
  143. [4:17:02 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: .......
  144. [4:17:14 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : It will likely be a soft fork
  145. [4:17:16 AM] dino: Phil the alternative might be worse.
  146. [4:17:20 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : More information coming very soon
  147. [4:17:20 AM] Craig Sellars: Tristan, if there is a HF, you may be getting deposits on a dead chain
  148. [4:17:27 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Yes, deposits are frozen
  149. [4:17:32 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: They have been for quite some time
  150. [4:17:38 AM] Philip G. Potter: worse for whom?
  151. [4:17:56 AM] Philip G. Potter: ETH price will go to zero if you try to change the past
  152. [4:17:57 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Freezing trades makes little sense unless existing deposits are going to be invalidated
  153. [4:18:39 AM] Philip G. Potter: this is problem with DAO not ETH
  155. [4:19:11 AM] Jesse: someone else mentioned it was a problem with Solidity
  156. [4:19:17 AM] Mathias: Fully agree, phil
  157. [4:19:34 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: I agree, if it's just the DAO at fault
  158. [4:19:42 AM] dino: Phil, March 2013 Bitcoin hard fork is precedent. Roll back was quite a few hours.
  159. [4:20:01 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: March 2013 was a different time
  160. [4:20:16 AM] dino: Alternative is that a hacker keeps 3 million ether. It will kill ecosystem.
  161. [4:20:34 AM] Philip G. Potter: yes, but we didn't have other cryptos to exchange to and withdraw
  162. [4:20:53 AM] dino: If hacker empties 10M DAO you think Ethereum will survive?
  163. [4:20:57 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Is the foundation prepared to make everyone affected whole? It can cause some pretty big problems.
  164. [4:20:58 AM] Jesse: yes
  165. [4:21:07 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: ^ and it can be tracked
  166. [4:21:08 AM] Aurélien MENANT: why would it kill the ecosystem?
  167. [4:21:11 AM] Philip G. Potter: if you screw exchanges, will ETH survive
  168. [4:21:13 AM] Philip G. Potter: >
  169. [4:21:14 AM] Philip G. Potter: ?
  170. [4:21:25 AM] dino: Foundation might be able to if losses are small...  Please freeze trading and withdrawals
  171. [4:21:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It isn't even just the exchanges
  172. [4:21:38 AM] dino: Phil, sadly yes...
  173. [4:21:42 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Do you know what block you might roll back to?
  174. [4:21:43 AM] Philip G. Potter: freeze trading?
  175. [4:21:53 AM] Aurélien MENANT: there has been USD2 to 4m in eth stolen from us, and since it happened the price increased by 90%, so it doesn't look that bad for the ecosystem
  176. [4:21:58 AM] Philip G. Potter: fuck this coin
  177. [4:22:27 AM] dino: Busoni I'm not sure what they are discussing in the security call right now
  178. [4:22:45 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: That is a vital piece of information if it's being considered
  179. [4:23:02 AM] Jesse: waiting to hear about a rollback.  until then, we’re not interfering in the market
  180. [4:23:26 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: ^ this would be the only reason to freeze trading
  181. [4:23:44 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: If it's anything else, tell us, we may have a better way of dealing with it
  182. [4:24:04 AM] Jesse: ^ happy to track funds and lock withdrawals, freeze accounts all day long
  183. [4:24:18 AM] Philip G. Potter: yes
  184. [4:24:33 AM] Bill Shihara: +1
  185. [4:24:56 AM] Mathias: If there is no intrinsic problem with Ethereum (solidity), there is no reason for a rollback or fork!
  186. [4:24:58 AM] Philip G. Potter: change history - BAD IDEA!!!!
  187. [4:25:52 AM] dino: Phil. Did you see any suspicious eth deposits and Bitcoin withdrawals?
  188. [4:26:08 AM] dino: If losses are small we should roll back
  189. [4:26:16 AM] Craig Sellars: dino - we're checking on how many deposits we got in the past four hours
  190. [4:26:17 AM] dino: Maybe the foundation can reimbuse
  191. [4:26:22 AM] Alex: There'll be an update here, likely from George, as soon as there is further clarification.
  192. [4:26:33 AM] dino: Thanks decker.
  193. [4:27:00 AM] dino: At least everyone should pause withdrawals 100%
  194. [4:27:10 AM] Philip G. Potter: the foundation will never reimburse
  195. [4:27:22 AM] dino: Phil if losses small maybe.
  196. [4:27:41 AM] Philip G. Potter: impossible to calculate
  197. [4:27:54 AM] Philip G. Potter: therefore, impossible to be perfectly fair
  198. [4:28:20 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It is easy for larger exchanges to calculate it, but very difficult to reach everyone
  199. [4:28:21 AM] Philip G. Potter: ethereum foundation reimbursement = fantasy
  200. [4:28:40 AM] Shawn: what's most important is to keep an eye on the movement of the stolen ETH
  201. [4:28:42 AM] Philip G. Potter: "if it is small" is a terrible metric
  202. [4:30:19 AM] Shawn: if people funded their accounts before the hack then there's no harm in letting them trade
  203. [4:30:28 AM | Edited 4:30:44 AM] Shawn: the trick is to keep an eye out for the stolen goods
  204. [4:30:59 AM] Mathias: Vb: please keep big picture in mind!
  205. [4:32:44 AM] Mathias: For all Ethereum related ventures, impartiality and immutability of chain is paramount!
  206. [4:33:30 AM] Shawn: As Phil points out, it's unfortunate that ETH holders who don't trade DAO suffer regardless
  207. [4:34:09 AM] Jesse: not really.. they may suffer the price drop but they still have the same amount of eth
  208. [4:34:50 AM] Philip G. Potter: true
  209. [4:34:54 AM] Shawn: fair enough
  210. [4:35:26 AM] Philip G. Potter: exchanges cannot be the bagholders on this flaw
  211. [4:35:32 AM] Shawn: It's an inconvenience to ETH holders to get patted down because of a DAO hack, but the DAO also brought them a lot of good price action and no one complained about that
  212. [4:35:58 AM] Philip G. Potter: trust me, it will be the END OF ETH
  213. [4:36:08 AM] Alex Hanin: it's a typical reaction - make people happy and you don't hear a thing, screw something up and they're all up in arms!
  214. [4:36:38 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: We're warning you before you screw it up
  215. [4:36:42 AM] Alex Hanin: I don't think ETH can be blamed for that - however a rollback will do more harm than good
  216. [4:39:45 AM] Shawn: buying opportunity
  217. [4:42:15 AM] Philip G. Potter: in ETH?
  218. [4:42:27 AM] Philip G. Potter: not so sure about that
  219. [4:43:07 AM] dino: Eth will not recover from a hacker who empties the DAO of 10 million ether and sells on exchanges foe the next 2 years. The price will be $0.50
  220. [4:43:26 AM] dino: Think logically.
  221. [4:43:40 AM] dino: Irrecoverable PR disaster
  222. [4:44:01 AM] Mathias: Don't agree
  223. [4:44:34 AM] dino: Of course exchange owners won't agree if they took losses
  224. [4:44:50 AM] Alex Hanin: I believe ETH will survive this - without a rollback - might take a little while to recover but it will make it... DAO on the other hand...
  225. [4:44:59 AM] Shawn: It's even possible for a phoenix to rise from the ashes of something like the bitcoinica hack
  226. [4:45:08 AM] Craig Sellars: Agreed with Alex.
  227. [4:45:08 AM] dino: Ultimately The community and miners  decide about rolling back with hard fork
  228. [4:45:20 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Traders really won't care that much
  229. [4:45:36 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: If a hacker has 10m, I mean
  230. [4:45:51 AM] Philip G. Potter: correct
  231. [4:46:03 AM] dino: Really?
  232. [4:46:23 AM] dino: 10m eth Is a lot to dump
  233. [4:46:23 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Not ETH traders, no. It won't directly affect the price much.
  234. [4:46:33 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: You can't dump 10m ETH without being noticed
  235. [4:46:37 AM] Alex Hanin: I think that logically the difference is nil as the ETH has not been taken from ETH account owners
  236. [4:46:42 AM] Philip G. Potter: but if chain gets "reorged", then a fundamental precept of blockchains will be violated
  237. [4:46:48 AM] Alex Hanin: even if it is being dumped, people will profit from it
  238. [4:47:01 AM] Alex Hanin: @Phil +1
  239. [4:47:08 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It is much more likely to cause market panic if the blockchain is considered unreliable
  240. [4:47:19 AM] Aurélien MENANT: agreed
  241. [4:47:20 AM] Alex Hanin: step away from the blockchain rollback
  242. [4:47:31 AM] Aurélien MENANT: or do a vote at least
  243. [4:47:41 AM] dino: I think both viewpoints here are going to be hotly debated.  I have no doubt exchange owners won't want a roll back though
  244. [4:47:47 AM] Shawn: rewriting the tape wouldn't be great, it would be better to catch the ETH
  245. [4:47:48 AM] Mathias: By staying true to principles, CASE FOR ETH GETS STRONGER!
  246. [4:48:00 AM] Mathias: Don't roll back
  247. [4:48:06 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: I really don't want to see DAO investors suffer, but the exchanges know their business. Perhaps there's another way? Can the funds be seized with a hard fork?
  248. [4:48:23 AM] Alex Hanin: not only will it hit the credibility of the blockchain concept, it will hurt exchanges real bad with all the numbers being invalidated
  249. [4:48:45 AM] Mathias: DON'T FORK
  250. [4:48:59 AM | Edited 4:49:04 AM] Alex Hanin: this debate sounds so similar to the Leave/Remain campaigns in the UK :)
  251. [4:49:05 AM] Aurélien MENANT: hahaah
  252. [4:49:25 AM] Mathias: 😀
  253. [4:49:38 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: I don't think the exchanges themselves will suffer nearly as much as individuals using the blockchain
  254. [4:49:43 AM] dino: We can blacklist the stolen eth perhaps.
  255. [4:49:45 AM] Alex: Tristan: The logistics are being discussed and debated. Whatever solution that is decided upon will be up to the network and miners.
  256. [4:49:57 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Update - it looks like the stolen Ether has been moved to a child DAO which means that is cannot be moved for at least a week. We are still not 100% sure at this stage - this is just information to keep you informed, please do not act on it yet.
  257. [4:50:12 AM] dino: I just go in touch with Yunbi China exchange
  258. [4:50:16 AM] dino: Brb.
  259. [4:54:21 AM] Bill Shihara: @George that is very good news if you can confirm it.  No need for a rollback.
  260. [4:56:00 AM] Philip G. Potter: except to rollback the split - if that is possible
  261. [4:57:08 AM] Philip G. Potter: so can we reenable withdrawals
  262. [4:57:10 AM] Philip G. Potter: ?
  263. [4:59:02 AM] QIU Liang: I’m here
  264. [4:59:44 AM] Mike Li: Hey I am Mike from Yunbi, Together with me is Yunbi’s CTO and CEO Mr. Qiu
  265. [4:59:49 AM] QIU Liang: YUNBI Exchange think ROLLBACK IS EVIL
  266. [5:00:01 AM] Mike Li: We don’t agree rollback
  267. [5:00:35 AM] Craig Sellars: You can't claim immutability and then change the ledger.
  268. [5:01:05 AM] Mike Li: Rollback will be unfair for all ETH traders on Yunbi
  269. [5:01:14 AM] Philip G. Potter: even a serious discussion about a rollback by eth overlords IS EVIL
  270. [5:01:51 AM] Mike Li: And will put all the loses of DAO to Yunbi users.
  271. [5:02:31 AM] Mike Li: For an exchange, the roll back is like a disaster.
  272. [5:02:39 AM] Mike Li: That is Yunbi’s opinion.
  273. [5:02:44 AM] Alex Hanin: @Mike +1 - don't rollback
  274. [5:03:34 AM] André Horta: @Horta +1 - don't rollback
  275. [5:04:08 AM] JonisJon: hi all just seeing this… crap, can someone get me up to speed?
  276. [5:04:57 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : It looks like Ether has been removed from THE DAO to a child DAO
  277. [5:05:02 AM] George Hallam [ETH] :
  278. [5:05:23 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Fortunately, it seems like the Ether is now trapped in there for at least a week.
  279. [5:05:36 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Again, we are still going over the code to get full confirmation
  280. [5:05:40 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : blogpost coming soon
  281. [5:05:45 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : with all the definitive info
  282. [5:06:00 AM] Alex Hanin: Thanks George
  283. [5:06:28 AM] Philip G. Potter: btw, if any government entity realizes that they can potentially pressure a "leaderless" DAO (or ETH for that matter) into a rollback, the consequences will be far reaching, I promise you
  284. [5:06:32 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Thank you all for you patience
  285. [5:06:51 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : and input
  286. [5:07:00 AM] Philip G. Potter: so - can we resume normal operations at Bitfinex or not?
  287. [5:07:14 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Please don’t act on this information yet
  288. [5:07:20 AM] Philip G. Potter: ?
  289. [5:07:29 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : We’re just wanting to make sure you’re up to date.
  290. [5:07:42 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : Actionable info will be available very soon.
  291. [5:09:04 AM] Bill Shihara: appreciate the update George.  I think we all feel better that we're not discussing a roll back anymore.  :)
  293. [5:09:38 AM] JonisJon: ok… so do we need to do anything? sorry all way behind here
  294. [5:09:41 AM] JonisJon: for the moment nothing changes?
  295. [5:09:47 AM] dino: Alright if eth is in the child DAO it cannot be spent for 7 days.
  296. [5:10:24 AM] Alex Hanin: can it be "locked" or confiscated?
  297. [5:10:29 AM] dino: We can soft fork to freeze that contract and revert the DAO contract.
  298. [5:10:41 AM] Alex Hanin: looks more and more like someone wanted to buy cheap ETH :|
  299. [5:11:47 AM] dino: Yes attackers would have margin shorted DAO in large scale right before this.  PLEASE ALL EXCHANGES LOOK FOR UNUSUAL SHORTING ACTIVITY directly before this happened.
  300. [5:12:00 AM] André Horta: need to create a feature in Eth blockchain that enable foundation to lock a block.
  301. [5:13:35 AM] dino: Bad idea because centralization.
  302. [5:14:00 AM] dino: So, we can soft fork to revert the splits from the DAO.
  303. [5:14:05 AM] Alex Hanin: any idea why is showing 2.4M ETH and is showing 3.5M ETH
  304. Has the attack been stopped?
  305. [5:14:12 AM] dino: And fix the contract at the same time.
  306. [5:14:54 AM] Craig Sellars: A soft fork with a single exclusion opens the door to blacklists
  307. [5:15:18 AM] Craig Sellars: (Besides being a stain on the code)
  308. [5:16:54 AM] Shawn: we could try submitting a proposal to the child dao asking for it to be returned
  309. [5:16:55 AM] Philip G. Potter: it's a truly terrible idea
  310. [5:18:16 AM] Philip G. Potter:  the fork, that is
  311. [5:18:46 AM] Philip G. Potter: negotiating with the "terrorist" is this case, is far preferale
  312. [5:18:58 AM] Philip G. Potter: preferable
  313. [5:20:28 AM | Edited 5:20:33 AM] JonisJon: do we have any idea who this person(s) is or contact?
  314. [5:20:48 AM] Shawn: 0x304a554a310c7e546dfe434669c62820b7d83490
  315. [5:21:04 AM] Craig Sellars: I was wondering if the curators of the child DAO were visible, and if those addresses had been used before?
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