-- Alpha [AA] began pestering splendiferousEpicedium [SE] at 01:51 --
[01:51] AA: By the way?
[01:51] AA: There's two things I need to talk to you about.
[01:52] SE: Alright.
[01:52] AA: 1. Magic and Versatility 2. Ability Count Limit
[01:52] AA: One will roll casually into the other.
[01:53] AA: So as far as the core complaints seem to be, they loathe Magic because it's "overly versatile and can't be explained" as well as "potentially OP".
[01:53] AA: Sound like a fair quote?
[01:53] SE: Yez.
[01:53] AA: And I have you on record saying you would prefer this to be a more science fiction themed memo, right?
[01:55] SE: More than likely, yes. Most characters get here through scifi means, and have interests in such things related.
[01:55] AA: So here's the little I have to say. Emphasis on little compared to my past rants.
[01:57] AA: 1. Science Fiction tends to have an emphasis on fiction. Any explaination passed out would be illogical likely, otherwise everyone here would need to be running to the copyright offices. It seems demonizing to blacklist magic under the pretense of "impossible logic" in any juxtaposition.
[01:57] AA: What's your ruling when I make some futuristic weapon that's impossible with an alchemiter?
[01:58] AA: Not that I mind Magic being gone, but we'll circle back to that.
[01:59] SE: Any weapons or gadgets have to be able to be explained.
[01:59] AA: Warp speed isn't possible. But the natives have that tech. That's what I mean.
[02:00] AA: We can't have the fiction and science fiction if we have to explain everything that's literally impossible. So I wanted to make sure "logical" was the accepted word more so.
[02:00] -- Alpha [AA] [[ in* ]] --
[02:00] SE: Resources, dear. So yes, it has to be a logical explanation. Example: You cannot make a miniature black hole gun.
[02:01] SE: As CR said earlier when I talked to her, technology can be nitpicked easier than magic can.
[02:02] AA: It's literally the same, but I won't start that disertation.
[02:02] AA: So look at this:
[02:02] AA: If you alchemized the generic
[02:03] AA: "Black Hole" Yu Gi Oh Card with a Gun that was Alchemized with the Bubble Shield technology from Halo, you could rationalize a gun that fired a contained black hole using the && process instead of the || ones.
[02:04] AA: But that's not scientifically "logical", as in it's not something we can make at present technology.
[02:04] AA: But it /is/ science fiction.
[02:04] SE: That won't work.
[02:04] AA: Why not?
[02:04] SE: Physics.
[02:04] SE: How much do you know about it.
[02:04] AA: Enough to know a black hole is a gravity vacuum and that most shit isn't getting out.
[02:05] SE: That's not enough.
[02:05] SE: :)
[02:05] AA: It can't really be contained.
[02:05] AA: But see, your counter argument right there?
[02:05] AA: That's shutting down science fiction.
[02:05] SE: Hold th fuck up
[02:05] SE: while i type
[02:05] SE: lmao
[02:06] SE: If you wanted to make a black hole. Even a small one. You would have to find a way to condense an Earths worth of matter, down to the size of a DIME, to even have something dense enough to simulate a singularity. From there it's a domino effect of course, but you have to find a way to outwardly compress all of that matter down, since you don't have a star to do that shit for you.
[02:06] SE: That is why a black hole gun will not work.
[02:07] SE: Physics won't allow it.
[02:08] SE: And that's why even alchemized items can be nitpicked and scrutinized. Sure, you can combine whatever to try and shit out anything you want.
[02:08] AA: I don't need to build the singularity technology with an alchemiter. The && formula makes an object with the capabilities of both and an algamation of the forms.
[02:08] AA: Jane made a fucking Iron Man suit.
[02:08] AA: Not physically something we can support.
[02:08] AA: Science Fiction to the letter.
[02:08] AA: Are you black listing /that/?
[02:08] SE: An Iron Man suit is logical and doesn't break the laws of phsyics.
[02:08] SE: physics*
[02:09] AA: Yes it does.
[02:09] AA: The Unibeam shouldn't be concussive.
[02:09] AA: The unibeam shouldn't be a discharge source at all.
[02:09] AA: The core should be covered to keep it from fucking depowering from so much as a jostle.
[02:10] AA: There's so much wrong with it, being /a comic book bit of silliness/.
[02:10] SE: You are reading way too much into that.
[02:10] AA: Hell, his last Silver Suit was literally /him/. And based off the Spider Man Symbiote physics.
[02:10] AA: Which is BEYOND exacerbating of physical norms.
[02:10] AA: My point is half of it isn't possible.
[02:10] AA: We got off track.
[02:10] AA: You answered my question: "No impossible Alchemizations".
[02:11] SE: Yes, you are fighting with me for no reason. This gives me MORE reasons to limit what kind of alchemized weapons you can bring in.
[02:11] AA: So how can you achieve your Science Fiction without the Fiction?
[02:11] AA: That's the question.
[02:11] SE: We've already been doing it.
[02:12] SE: No one is as heavily reliant on combatic weaponized bullshit as you, apparently.
[02:12] SE: You want to push limits continuously and mold the plot to your liking.
[02:12] AA: Your ship, that Zelvis (spelling*) made? It's scientifically impossible.
[02:12] AA: I don't care about the combat limitations.
[02:12] AA: I care about the rules being thrown only on me.
[02:12] AA: But this isn't about me.
[02:12] AA: I wanted to make sure I was actually following the spirit of your rules.
[02:12] SE: The only reasons it would be scientifically impossible at *this* point in time, is because of a lack of resources.
[02:12] AA: You said you wanted Science Fiction so I tried to make it.
[02:13] SE: No dude. You're trying to argue with me. Keep your characters on a reasonable, average power level as most people in the setting.
[02:15] AA: What?
[02:15] AA: I don't care about the power level. This isn't about fighting.
[02:15] AA: I told you last night I was building someone. You said then you wanted a more Sci-Fi themed memo, so I made them tech heavy in their exeuction.
[02:16] AA: I write /stories/. I didn't come here for a showdown.
[02:16] AA: Don't insult me like that.
[02:16] SE: :T RP is really like writing a story. It's about interactions with characters.
[02:16] SE: isn't*
[02:16] AA: Okay? I obviously have an understanding of outside forces touching the narrative. That's the point of involving other people.
[02:16] SE: I've heard nothing but horror about the shit that went down in dream hive from multiple people.
[02:17] AA: And fuck Dream Hive.
[02:17] AA: There was some shit there.
[02:17] AA: We aren't there.
[02:17] AA: It isn't relavent.
[02:17] AA: What is? The hypocrisy here. But I'm not worried about that.
[02:17] AA: I got my answer one "what's allowed".
[02:18] AA: Let's get back to that second thing:
[02:18] AA: Ability Count Limit.
[02:18] SE: Everything has a resource limit. Use something reasonable.
[02:18] AA: I won't beat around the bush, I understand half of your rules here are in place because of societal preference and the fact that it's literally called a Refuge. Most of the people here are --
[02:18] AA: Can you not?
[02:18] AA: This is not about power.
[02:18] AA: I do not care.
[02:18] AA: I cannot stress that enough.
[02:19] AA: -- Most of the people here are (OoC and IC) running away from Memos and Worlds where there's been a history of hatred, strive, and general drama.
[02:19] AA: Am I wrong? Because I swear that was said.
[02:19] AA: And it's the sole reason I haven't taken half the shit they've complained about to heart as a personal offense.
[02:20] SE: Correct. My memo caters pretty much entirely to casuals, and people that just want in character interaction.
[02:21] AA: Okay. So this is what I said yesterday and want to delve into:
[02:21] AA: Their complaint about Magic doesn't seem to stim from "it can't be explained" (not that they were listening to any rational, surgical application) but the fact that they didn't like how much versatility it gave to any one person.
[02:22] AA: To which I replied: any overly armed bastard with technology could pose equal threat given a level of preparation.
[02:22] AA: IE: Batman
[02:22] AA: No one seemed to respond to that.
[02:22] AA: UA in fact said it /before/ me.
[02:23] SE: Batman has no way to counter a purple using chucklevoodoos on him.
[02:23] SE: Or being ripped apart by telekinetics.
[02:25] AA: He could actually. A KO-gas, or even some sensory impairment that clouded processing and judgement would rationale addle the brain enough to keep them from using etrasensory powers.
[02:26] AA: Actually blocking the telekinetics if he gets hit? Far less. But he can keep that reality from coming to light a lot better than he can mitigate it.
[02:27] AA: I'm under the impression you're typing, and I'll let you finish, but I just realized we hit another tangent.
[02:28] AA: I was leading into a question.
[02:28] SE: I'm doing other things, as well. I disagree, but don't feel like arguing.
[02:28] AA: The concern is, what do you do when they reach that threshold? Someone not breaking all the rules of "impossibility", but being far more combat pragmatic and equipped than their adversary?
[02:29] AA: You saw last night I could have literally recreated that fight with technology and have been fine.
[02:29] AA: But I'm still inside the rules.
[02:29] AA: I didn't break a rule last night in fact.
[02:29] AA: But they're not happy.
[02:30] AA: But you know (or should by this point) that I didn't come here to beat up on people who don't even want to fight. but half of them don't even care based on how I looked at onset.
[02:30] SE: No one was okay with Amara as a character being around except for UA.
[02:30] AA: (sigh*)
[02:30] AA: Yes. The why is what I'm looking at.
[02:30] AA: And you aren't walking with me.
[02:30] AA: I say again: The concern is, what do you do when they reach that threshold? Someone not breaking all the rules of "impossibility", but being far more combat pragmatic and equipped than their adversary?
[02:31] AA: Because it's not Magic alone they're up in arms about.
[02:31] AA: They directly called out feasibility.
[02:31] SE: If your character is unrealistically powerful, it's not okay, and it's not going to be tolerated.
[02:32] AA: What's unrealistic about someone who's fighting Gods in their spare time, like Orrick, having a weapon tailored to shutting down every aspect? Or wearing a belt, boots, armor, helmet, and the whole nine yards?
[02:32] AA: That's the character's rationale. I mean, if they show up in a fucking /Gundam/, sure. You may call foul play easy . . .
[02:33] SE: Actually, Zoroti shows up often in a mecha.
[02:33] AA: But ultimately, from what I've seen, you're more likely to step in if the gap is just wide enough to make --
[02:33] AA: Not even touching that.
[02:33] AA: -- someone cry.
[02:35] SE: Here's the thing. RP is supposed to be fun. No one wants drama. No one wants to deal with unfair fights, or bullshit, or fighting in general. So yeah, I'm going to step in. Your solution is for them to suck it up, but in the same sense, you could get characters to fit the setting better. Make a new one, and work on gaining abilities and writing a story, if it's that important to you. I've literall
[02:35] SE: y have 4 or 5 people tell me at this point just to tell you to conform completely or leave, and I would rather not do that. That fucking annoys me, because it's supposed to be *fun*. If you can't have fun without testing limits with magic and technology, then I have no idea how to appease you, because the fun in this memo particularly comes from the interactions with each other.
[02:36] AA: You say it's supposed to be about fun, but look at this:
[02:36] AA: Yesterday FF chimed in and I didn't even approach their character at first.
[02:37] AA: They regularly target me in the OoC without provocation.
[02:37] AA: I've left every engagement fair. I've taken steps to promote narrative.
[02:37] AA: I involved more people in Orrick's existence in plot.
[02:37] AA: I chimed in with my own plans for Seth fighting the Empire.
[02:37] AA: I haven't just walked in and been like, "I'm magic and above all of this."
[02:37] AA: More importantly?
[02:37] AA: I /did/ write someone new.
[02:38] AA: I have done literally every fucking thing every complaint has demanded to make them at peace.
[02:38] AA: But I know it isn't enough because of the /core/ of their concern.
[02:38] AA: And when I came to you tonight, to make sure things would be okay?
[02:38] AA: You seemed to believe I came here to argue or reinstate something that /I asked you to do/.
[02:38] AA: What's really going on?
[02:39] AA: Is it because I want to do more than sit around and eat and flirt? I won't apologize for that. I agree that character interaction is the goal. It's why I /come in at all/.
[02:43] SE: Okay, but you can make a character that's not super skilled, or specialized in everything, and have a good time. You could literally make a level 3 noob, and go through the grandoise process of "leveling" them up, so to say. You want adventure? I mean, it's out there. Just not in the way you're expecting it, I guess.
[02:44] AA: It's not about skill! Forget the fact that my last character /wasn't/ good at everything. I'm focused on the literal definition of "versatility", because I felt like that was their focus more so than just the word "Magic".
[02:44] AA: I tend to go to new memos with blank slate characters and let them evolve. I'm not above that.
[02:44] AA: I'm about to do it /now/ in fact, mostly.
[02:44] AA: This is all I worried about: Skill Total
[02:45] AA: Because when they bump into a challenging battle, because it's /not/ always an even engagement, and I haven't broken any rules and the person's equipment is realistic and not "overly armed for the situation or godmoddingly counter-picking" ...
[02:45] AA: I wanted to know what you'd do.
[02:45] AA: Because you /KNOW/ they already don't like me.
[02:45] AA: And I'm not trying to piss anyone off!
[02:48] SE: You tell me this, then. If you're not doing anything wrong, why is EVERYONE getting pissed off?
[02:49] AA: That's easy. For starters? I came in embodying a lot of what they didn't like, A Powerful Past /and/ Magic. Promise of conflict and drama, interactions that were less positive. And then OoC I'm cold or come off as judging and offensive.
[02:50] AA: Both of those hand in hand were their first impressions.
[02:50] AA: Where as you?
[02:50] AA: You didn't get that.
[02:50] AA: You heard the narratives, my goals, my designs and wishes.
[02:50] AA: You got to hear from me, as an Operator, beyond my evaluations and critiques or judgements.
[02:50] AA: You've been /listening/.
[02:51] AA: So counter question: if I'm doing something wrong, why isn't it a rule somewhere that I could have kept in mind? If you remember, I talked to you for hours before even coming in the first time.
[02:52] AA: I had seen their day to day operations. I knew who they were before they heard from me. I knew half of this /could/ be a problem. But I was optimistic.
[02:59] AA: I answered your question, SE.
[03:01] SE: You avoided answering many, many of my questions when we first talked about you bringing her in, and after you DID. I kept asking what she was, what she could do, and you avoided enlightening me. So I wasn't as informed then as I am now. And I've shown the list of her abilities to pretty much everyone in the memo, and again, the only person okay with that is UA. If you had given me that list of he
[03:01] SE: r abilities on day one, I would of erected a big stop sign and said no. If I had been aware of that on the second.. Third.. Fourth, ect times. I would of said no. But watching her use more, and more spells. Come back from a death that is probably Just. Turn into some intangible, ethereal form for no reason.. Those are my red flags. Those are everyone else's red flags too.
[03:02] AA: You have /no limitations/ on abilities.
[03:02] AA: You said you wanted nothing Over Powering.
[03:02] AA: She's Over Powered, stoppped, NO ONE.
[03:02] AA: This is why I came to you tonight!
[03:02] AA: If you want this to be a thing, make it a thing. I obviously cared.
[03:03] AA: But as for not telling you "everything upfront"? I didn't even approach the topic with ambiguity. I straight up said "I know for a fact this character has a plethora of powers that without even discussing cross your line of usual expected power, but that shouldn't come up".
[03:03] AA: And look at how little of a death toll lies in her wake.
[03:04] AA: She's used Mind as an Aspect, fired a thunderbolt, used telekinesis, and used one healing spell.
[03:04] AA: That's actually all she's done.
[03:04] AA: Juxtaposed to that ENTIRE LIST?
[03:04] AA: That's a testament to me keeping my word.
[03:04] AA: But they're angry?
[03:04] SE: She has cast more spells than that.
[03:04] SE: And again.
[03:04] SE: Ethereal
[03:04] SE: bullshit
[03:04] AA: Name 'em.
[03:04] AA: She has not gone entangle once.
[03:05] SE: Bruh yes she has. She literally didn't even open the door.
[03:05] AA: I'll give you the healing passive at a slower rate than the Heal she dropped last night. I night. I forgot that.
[03:05] AA: And when I said she didn't open the door, I didn't mean to say she walked through it. I implied she suddenly appeared.
[03:05] SE: How?
[03:05] AA: Because she had done /that/ several times.
[03:05] SE: Up until a few nights ago
[03:06] SE: I didn't know she wasn't even human.
[03:06] SE: ....
[03:06] SE: I didn't know she *was* human
[03:06] SE: there we go
[03:06] SE: Sorry. I haven't slept much.
[03:06] AA: She did it the first three days she was there. And the third day I intentionally didn't hide it. Because it was supposed to be the point of initial narrative. The whole "She's not hiding she isn't quite normal, but she's not talking about it like she's waiting for us to figure it out".
[03:07] AA: And yes you did. I told you at onset when you asked directly "She was human and is not just that word alone now".
[03:07] SE: WAS human
[03:07] AA: Because physically she is human.
[03:07] SE: bruh you know how many times i've dealt with "demons" that used to be humans?
[03:07] SE: and it's not against the rules, per say. i also thought she might be something like a djin.
[03:07] AA: Anyway, all of /THIS/ is a tangent. You said you didn't know all of this until a few nights ago but that's not true. I have the freakin' logs, but you were also /there/.
[03:08] AA: And yes! A djinn was the BULK of her influence by my design.
[03:08] AA: She's activell (now this I haven't told you)
[03:08] SE: :T I thought she wasn't human this entire time. Humans are given completely different limitations. That's like trying to make a hedgehog fly.
[03:09] SE: So, I was ignorant. And while she was doing these things, it didn't impact anyone at all. Her appearing didn't do jack shit to anybody.
[03:09] SE: And I honestly prefer to avoid bullshit if it's not impacting anyone
[03:10] AA: There is no misconception or veiled presentation. I accept that you may have felt different with a detailed list, but considering what I told you is exactly the case I don't see why you would operate different in retrospect except for the fact thaty ou know that no one is at peace with me.
[03:10] AA: And it /is/ impacting, in the long term. When you reach a challenge and no one has an answer but the ambiguous power in the distance that invariably is supposed to come with a catch?
[03:10] AA: That's important.
[03:10] AA: Her mere existence, any characters, is important.
[03:10] AA: But that's not what I'm talking about right now.
[03:11] AA: I was going to tell you her backstory that got to the point of essentially operating as a Djinn, but that's neither here or there either:
[03:11] AA: There's no rule on a list of X amount of super weapons or X amount of skills. And while I personally don't care, /THEY DO/.
[03:11] SE: It's never been an issue until now.
[03:11] SE: So there hasn't been the need for any sort of RULE enforcement and creation until now.
[03:11] AA: So right now, like yesterday, I haven't broken any rules. This person's everything lines up with their narrative. They have no magic. The whole nine yards. I even read the rules again.
[03:11] SE: Some laws aren't written until they're necessary.
[03:11] AA: But they are going to get mad. Rest assured.
[03:12] SE: Try them and see, I suppose.
[03:12] AA: So I asked what you'd do. Because yesterday? You said you'd tell them to suck it.
[03:12] AA: But after talking to you tonight? I dunno. You seem less "I understand your commentary, I thank you for trying, and I wish they saw things like I do".
[03:13] SE: Because I am tired. Unbelievably so. Because it's pretty much down to, conform to the setting, or mosey on to another equally shitty memo.
[03:14] AA: This place isn't shitty, for one.
[03:14] AA: And two, I've been all about changing. I didn't come in with guns blazing, to which no one has yet to even properly highlight.
[03:14] AA: I haven't been about about IC Strife. I've been talking, mingling, etc etc.
[03:14] AA: Like you said, "Being a bitchy female seems to be a no-no to them".
[03:14] AA: And Amara has certainly been that.
[03:15] SE: Then, try someone not so bitchy and see how it goes.
[03:15] SE: People don't respond well to Zakhar either.
[03:15] AA: I am not the same demogrphic as them. I like a bit of hostility, conflict, goals, challenge in any narrative and I usually work towards some level of success or catharsis. --
[03:15] SE: He's bitchy as hell.
[03:15] AA: I don't care about them not responding to her or him or anyone being bitchy.
[03:15] AA: I care about rules being made in my wake so I can't come in at all.
[03:15] AA: Amara didn't break any rules.
[03:15] AA: Notice how she's gone now.
[03:16] AA: I won't break any rules again, and I don't want this to happen again.
[03:16] AA: You say "conform", not "follow the rule".
[03:16] AA: That's important.
[03:16] AA: But I don't operte like them. FF even said OoC, "Well, I don't like your style"
[03:16] AA: That shouldn't matter.
[03:16] AA: I definitely wasn't forcing myself upon them for one.
[03:16] SE: She can still come in and exist without having to draw in arcane magics. UA is having to conform as well.
[03:16] AA: And I wasn't defying your order either.
[03:16] AA: You allowing them to come in is irrelevant.
[03:17] AA: I am so not even bothered by that.
[03:17] AA: If I haven't already said it, let me say it not:
[03:17] SE: And I'm not really making ulres in your wake, as much as reinstating an old one, because my point was proven.
[03:17] AA: I'm not mad at you, the "rule", any of it.
[03:17] AA: Your point was the /OPPOSITE/ of proven!!
[03:18] AA: I have held all of that typed of potential and acted on NONE OF IT. I haven't been the aggressive, unstoppable antagonist, or condescending know all mage.
[03:18] AA: They just /hate my work/ and have proof now that it was as powerful as they feared.
[03:18] AA: But NEVER had I crossed that line, just as I told them!
[03:18] AA: This is the literaly definition of the word OPPOSITE to your point.
[03:18] AA: And I actually would love to take a second and highlight that.
[03:18] AA: Because now I feel disrespected.
[03:19] SE: Amara was the first magic heavy reliant character to come in, and throw spells. Even weak ones. And no one wants to deal with that. 100% the only reason magic was permitted was because of UA. The negative reaction Amara got was enough to end the extended probationary period of allowing magic, since only 2 others have bothered to come into the memo that use magic at all.
[03:20] AA: Your point was that Magic was OP and unrestrained. All this proved is your world has no tolerance for it.
[03:20] SE: Correct.
[03:20] AA: I can accept this turn of events proving something.
[03:21] AA: I won't call it anything but that.
[03:21] AA: Targeted Hatred.
[03:21] AA: Which I'm okay with.
[03:21] SE: It's not you.
[03:21] AA: But this circles back to my point:
[03:21] SE: If Seth ran around throwing spells
[03:21] AA: I think it's more than Magic. It's /versatility/.
[03:21] SE: he woul get the same shit
[03:21] SE: would*
[03:21] SE: 100%
[03:21] AA: I started with that, and I'm trying to get you to see that again.
[03:21] AA: You said yesterday you'd tell them to suck it.
[03:21] AA: But when I come in, because I'm coming, and my person shows a nice little armory worth of tech.
[03:22] AA: When they bitch and moan, because it'll come up.
[03:22] SE: if your dude comes in with 50 types of super compact weapons that somehow are miniturized and able to still function and all that and can do things like throw fire and ice and lightning and all that, then yeah, that's a problem.
[03:22] AA: If it's physically possible you said, scientifically sound, BARRING THE HYPOCRISY of the tech others already have.
[03:22] AA: And my shit is. I promise that.
[03:23] AA: But I also know it won't matter.
[03:23] SE: No one has tech like that.
[03:23] AA: Because I gave a non-ambiguous disertation about --
[03:23] SE: If you go past the spaceships people need to get around and interact with the universe
[03:23] SE: to explain going places
[03:23] SE: no one has super duper high tech bullshit
[03:23] AA: Liquid Nitrogen Flamethrower.
[03:23] AA: "Throwing ice".
[03:24] AA: Not my point though.
[03:24] SE: It would completely freeze up the system
[03:24] SE: It would also boil away mostly and evaporate through the air
[03:24] SE: You would have to DUMP a SHIT TON on someone
[03:24] SE: Trust me dude, I know my fuckin' science.
[03:25] SE: I can have scifi because I know science. I can explain the shit my characters use.
[03:25] AA: I think you think you do. But more importantly, this is that same hypocrisy:
[03:25] AA: You want to let in Science Fiction but won't allow the Fiction if it get's too powerful.
[03:25] AA: That's luke warm.
[03:26] AA: Which is fine, but you have to see that.
[03:26] SE: I mean, I would call it a science memo, but considering my own fan species exist here and I made the entire planet up it's not exactly unable to be a "sci-fi" environment.
[03:28] AA: I'm not even worried. I'm not judging, and I'm super cool with it. Like I said IC and OOC, "I like this planet and what to see what's going on".
[03:28] AA: I did my part. I didn't cross any lines. These people came to me with these problems.
[03:29] AA: As far as I figure? I haven't let you down or said some shit and gone back on my word.
[03:29] AA: Tell if I'm wrong.
[03:31] SE: You didn't disclose most of the nature of Amara and her abilities when we first were talking. It's been frustrating to me because Amara just DOES shit. She made a person without having to use god tier abilities. She talks about conquering universes and shit. You may not be actively using the extent of her abilities, but she sure as fuck holds them over other people's heads. Apparently she literall
[03:31] SE: y made a Prince of Time. Which is a cool concept, I guess. If you're writing a book where you can dictate the plot.
[03:32] SE: She just appears. Out of nowhere. And you still haven't explained how she does that.
[03:32] SE: It's really hard to let me down, or upset me enough to say anything, so keep that in consideration.
[03:33] SE: I am much, much harder to piss off than the others.
[03:33] SE: I can tolerate boundless amounts of utteral bullshit. They can't. That's why you haven't gotten shit from *me*.
[03:33] AA: Hang on.
[03:33] AA: Once again, day one, I told you she had a list of powers that would be damnable and ultimately wouldn't come to touch your world. I stand by that.
[03:34] AA: Now, as of yesterday, you have the complete works of her repitiore but here's the thing:
[03:34] AA: This isn't just things I've written, like you know. This has been RP'd out. And you say in the rules "There is no official anchor to other canons. If your person and another Operator's knows each other, that's between you."
[03:35] AA: So /again/, I'm within the rules.
[03:35] AA: She holds her history over the heads of the others, okay.
[03:35] SE: Knowing each other and pulling in backstries is different.
[03:35] SE: ... backstories*
[03:35] AA: Even if they are, these feats are a testament to her power but not something that promotes an OoC extraction endeavor.
[03:35] AA: And that's exactly what they did.
[03:36] AA: They flinched because she /could/ be a threat, like I said they would.
[03:36] AA: But I don't believe you can show me where I crossed some OoC outrageous line.
[03:36] AA: Because even the revival, because she's a God Tier after all, checks out.
[03:36] SE: Okay, but look at this differently. Anyone OUTSIDE of that is going to assume her IC threats can be followed up, and no one is really going to not put it past you as the operator to probably act on that shit.
[03:37] AA: You're right. Not only are their fears valid and possible, but Amara normally WOULD follow up on those threats as UA can attest. But I don't have to look at it differently because I already kept that in mind. I went to you first, promises and all, before they even KNEW.
[03:37] AA: And I /hadn't/ acted on that shit.
[03:38] AA: So UA, You, and Myself. Three people more informed. And I had been here several weeks without crossing that line.
[03:38] SE: Amara hasn't interacted with many people outside of my own characters.
[03:38] AA: So they couldn't accept my word and your own scrutiny.
[03:38] AA: And that's just untrue.
[03:39] AA: The cannon-in-a-box was responded to by at least four people, one of them at least yours. But she's played with Seth. She was originally hanging out with that Highblood Girl. She's talked to your characters a lot though, but she's also mingled in general.
[03:39] AA: She's social.
[03:39] AA: What she /hasn't/ done is been /trouble/ for most people.
[03:43] SE: No one knew the cannon in the box was her, that I'm aware. I had Zexius throw that shit, because everyone was ignoring it, because they realize you were trying to instigate a situation. Which I don't mind. I also welcome the occasional bullshit-a-thon.
[03:43] AA: Don't you see beyond the words there though?
[03:44] AA: It's me.
[03:44] AA: It's not the magic, it's not just the versatility, it's me.
[03:44] AA: And I'm okay with that.
[03:44] AA: But I need to reach a point where they stop having ammunition OoC to condemn me.
[03:44] AA: Like I said, I want to be here.
[03:44] AA: And I think some of you want me to here, if only to be another person.
[03:44] AA: But we know they won't stop. Whatever form I take.
[03:44] AA: Because I don't /do/ the same things. (shrug*)
[03:45] AA: Hell, that's the only reason I even came to you tonight instead of just diving on in.
[03:46] SE: Just, try using a blank slate character, instead of someone like Amara. And see how that goes instead.
[03:47] AA: Like I said, entire day ahead of you:
[03:47] AA: Remember that group of God Tiers I wrote? Army of Prospitians.
[03:47] AA: I literally wrote a no powered, just off the ship with what inventory he saw fit, Prospitian.
[03:47] AA: Most of them have a preference of gear, and there's a write up of the basic gear, but this is your "Bare Bones Stormtrooper" tier of threat.
[03:48] AA: Half of them literally run around dressed as Stormtroopers in fact.
[03:48] SE: lmao
[03:48] AA: But this is what I was telling you, if I wanted OP I'd make it. That's not what this is.
[03:48] AA: But he's still /versatile/.
[03:48] AA: And I knew they'd be the first to say "This guy AA is just min/maxing and out to kill us.
[03:49] AA: And I didn't want that to devolve into "You can't have magic and now can't alchemize things, but this is still a Homestuck setting".
[03:49] SE: The definition of Mary Sue, or rather, one of them. Is having a character that can do like, everything.
[03:49] AA: Because I know it's about about the setting and plausibility, it's about them being secure.
[03:49] AA: /Still haven't crossed that line, not that they'll say it/.
[03:50] AA: She doesn't have all the God Tiers. She has no physical fortitude displayed. She still obides by the Just and Heroic death clause. The list goes on.
[03:50] AA: But where I commented on those concerns, they didn't even respond.
[03:50] AA: They tend to move on to a new complaint when I shut down the other, or just say "I'm wrong".
[03:50] -- Alpha [AA] [[ abides* ]] --
[03:55] SE: She can't have any god tiers beside her own. Which, even if she's not actively using them here. It's been used in past memos, as influence to somehow... Get conjoined with the horrorterror creature the keyholder made there. I mean. Things you've done in the past in other memos will follow here, because things done in other memos would not be POSSIBLE here. That's part of the issue.
[03:57] AA: I understand what you're saying, but your logic of impossibility is a construct of your world, not cannon.
[03:57] SE: That's why it's my world though.
[03:57] AA: For example, Dave can casually move through time. His Timetables are just a set of training wheels. But he can see past events.
[03:57] AA: He's eclipsing Seer.
[03:57] SE: I fabricated this shit to my own design and I can alter it as I see fit.
[03:57] AA: Which is cool. This is what I'm saying though:
[03:58] AA: You said Amara couldn't do something that was easily within the realm of her skillset. Not being allowed to for the narrative of your world is one thing.
[03:58] AA: Saying she doesn't have the power to get inside someone's head for a comprehensive understanding for THEIR power is not something you can just decide in the /grand scheme/ though.
[03:58] AA: Just for your world.
[03:59] SE: When I'm saying shit like that, it's directly referring to what I, and the others, consider possible. Because as I'm talking to you, I'm talking to them too. It's not just me inputting on this. I just have the final say so.
[03:59] AA: Well, you have a clause about Chucklevoodoos and Mind Players as well. You have a lot of "head canon" stuff and you admittedly said you only call it a "canon memo" to keep the rainbow bloods and the like out.
[04:00] AA: I don't operate like that. I'm not in charge either, so I accomedate your designs. But I want what's noted, her narrative and fruition, to be that I've not gone outlandish from the narrative.
[04:00] AA: This isn't some homebrewed "I can beat anyone and I'm so special" nonsense.
[04:01] SE: All of those clauses were approved by the patrons before they were posted.
[04:01] AA: I'm not critisizing a rule. Calling out "head canon" population among them.
[04:01] AA: Hell, the fact that you bother to balance anything at all must be appreciated by them.
[04:01] AA: Like I already told you, you're exactly the kind of leader they want.
[04:01] AA: And I can't be mad at you.
[04:04] SE: But. I guess view it more this way. Thanks to the way this universe in particular operates, a person like Amara wouldn't exist in the first place. Like it's really going to root back to her not being able to fit into the setting, because it just doesn't make any sense. That's like, I had a cyan blooded seadweller come in before, and I had to tell them that no, that's not going to fit here. They tr
[04:04] SE: ied to justify that just because he had only been shown eridan and feferi, doesn't mean there aren't other seadwellers existing.
[04:04] SE: And I finally had to just be like, "Well. HERE that's not going to fly. So. Bye."
[04:04] AA: That's not a justification.
[04:04] AA: Hussie has data against that.
[04:04] AA: That's different.
[04:05] AA: I get your point though.
[04:05] AA: But she doesn't "Not fit in" because of pat narrative actions that are unreasonable in universe. It's meta.
[04:05] AA: They don't like or want magic. Which is okay.
[04:05] AA: That's all I said.
[04:06] AA: You said magic didn't exist in the Homestuck universe, but you have data on Caliborn using curses while derived from the Earth Universe. And then I gave my whole speech about inheritance and Alternia.
[04:06] AA: Point was I had several sensible sources.
[04:06] AA: Not a hand canon believe.
[04:07] AA: (( Aside: I don't like head canons, but I don't try and judge them. I just prefer to operate purely off what I see in the narrative. ))
[04:08] SE: A. I thought it was LE using the Curses. The guy that was literally like, breaking the universe. B. There's nothing proving your point. Because CR already told me HIC was able to pretty much mimic other abilities because she's a thief, and that LE's curse only gave her immortality. But, *I* never read that far.
[04:08] SE: There's still literally nothing proving your point, and there's nothing 100% proving mine.
[04:09] SE: But because I run this shit, and I still don't want magic around, I can take it away if I want. There aren't that many people that use it anyways.
[04:09] AA: That's wrong. HIC never played.
[04:09] SE: Dave was able to use Time abilities before god tiering.
[04:09] AA: LE is Caliborn, obviously. He comes from B1 Universe.
[04:09] SE: :')
[04:09] AA: Remember, he's on Earth. Gamzee moved him there.
[04:10] AA: And sure, you're allowed to take Magic away. I'm literally just outlining my lack of assumptions and fan-based-insertion of reality to accomedate my work. Because I don't want to look like "that guy".
[04:10] AA: You aren't the first one to throw the word "Mary Sue".
[04:10] AA: But you are the first to be listening.
[04:10] AA: Well, here. I haven't gotten that insult elsewhere.
[04:10] AA: (shrug*)
[04:11] SE: Most people are huge pushovers that don't want to deal with shit though. Like. So many people are giant pansies.
[04:11] AA: I won't say /shit/ in that realm. God forbid these lot think I'm insulting them.
[04:11] AA: Like I said, I don't think little of them! I just know we have different interest.
[04:12] AA: I've likened their memo activity to "The Sims" while it's always some larger than life narrative for me.
[04:12] AA: Oh. Speaking of:
[04:12] SE: That is... Actually 100% accurate.
[04:12] SE: This is like The Sims
[04:12] AA: I try to be.
[04:12] SE: 100000%
[04:12] AA: And it's why I stay frustrated. But as for Amara:
[04:13] SE: Which. People love that game. Lmao. Including myself.
[04:13] AA: You commented on her line about taking over universes: Context is important there.
[04:13] AA: She's no space demon of infinite power or some nonsense. When she played her session, still the normal human girl in over her head, she had friends in another session. Initially her team crossed the divide to help, because someone had died, but ultimately infighting broke out at the end.
[04:14] AA: Her session eliminated their ex-friends and took their Ultimate Reward, so existentially took over a universe.
[04:14] AA: She just knew how to spin the words.
[04:14] AA: That's why she said "Before I got my big girl pants".
[04:14] AA: She wasn't such a monster yet.
[04:17] SE: Yeah, but, it's probably wordings like that, that cause others to assume you're lording some sort of..... Unstoppable power over their heads, probably.
[04:17] SE: A lot of this of course, is just lack of trust of the operator.
[04:17] AA: That's what they get for assuming and not talking to me as an operator. I've been the utmost responsive about specifics, or tried to be OoC with them.
[04:17] AA: And you're right. I've said so much tonight verbatim.
[04:18] AA: . . . Though let the record show, she DID eventually get to the point where she thought she could grab ten universes and re-create the forumla for the Green Sun in an overly intensified manner, then bottle THAT into a universe she had contained else (she stole that, didn't make it) and use it as her own source of almost-unrivaled power.
[04:19] AA: Didn't work. About twenty something other OCs jumped in.
[04:19] SE: That. Is ridiculous, sir. Lol. That's waaaaay next level. This memo isn't old enough for that plot progression yet.
[04:19] SE: Which is another issue.
[04:19] AA: If you recall, I commented on tht.
[04:20] AA: I know.
[04:20] SE: The memo has only been back up for... idk. 3 or 4 months? and it wasn't active until like a month ago.
[04:20] AA: I watched them before coming to talk to you.
[04:20] AA: I knew what I could and couldn't do.
[04:20] SE: which, finally, shit is starting to happen on the side with various characters.
[04:20] AA: Well bully for them. Here's to me /getting to fucking see/.
[04:20] AA: Had they their way, I'd be gone already.
[04:21] SE: Good thing I don't believe in just banning people.
[04:21] AA: Amen to that.
[04:21] SE: Because I've had plenty of people tell me to do it.
[04:21] SE: And I'm just like
[04:21] SE: "...........nah"
[04:21] AA: Either way, I'll see you IC soon enough. Maybe not tonight (although possible), but Soldier 8084 is done and written.
[04:22] SE: Sounds interesting, if anything. I look forward to it, regardless. Although I'm just RPing a dog tonight, apparently. lmao.
[04:22] AA: . . . I have no words.
[04:22] SE: I'm so tired man you have no idea
[04:22] SE: i've gotten ~5 hours of sleep in the past like, 3 days
[04:23] SE: a dog is about all i can manage
[04:26] SE: Luckily. Honey is a smart dog.
[04:28] SE: CCR: ((I am more than happy to help with trying to build up overarching plotty stuff that gives various people opportunities to do things, if need be. alpha just needs to realize that this isn't the Amara show and nobody's tuning in to learn more about her, they're playing to explore more about their own characters)) <- from CR, obviously. we're talking about shit on the side.
[04:29] AA: I wasn't making requests. To be frank, Orrick's nonsense from yesterday was far and above my expectations even for the ultimate disappointment that was motive.
[04:29] AA: Though I'm happy to see CR cares.
[04:29] AA: More over?
[04:30] SE: Actually, that plot line developed
[04:30] SE: a lot
[04:30] SE: today
[04:30] SE: graphically even
[04:30] SE: but i've also bitched about not enough going on
[04:31] AA: If you noticed, I haven't had Amara in any situatuon as a decider or key piece. Because I never wanted her to be unless personally sought out for such. CR's targeting animosity and contempt shows /in colors there/, not that I give a single flying fuck. They're right: this /isn't/ anything Amara centric and I pity the day it's ever wished.
[04:31] AA: But I'm chuckling, in the most genuinely condescending way I have to date sadly.
[04:32] SE: It seems very Amara-centric because she does things to draw attention.
[04:32] AA: She's self centered. That doesn't make the day to day ongoings "Amara centric".
[04:32] AA: She did nothing to put herself at the center of anything, either.
[04:33] AA: What she's done is instigate a few things, but count the number of "I" against "You".
[04:33] AA: ( Don't do that )
[04:33] AA: She's infinitely more focused on the world, for her own amusement mind you, but it's always about the other person.
[04:33] AA: Her class damn near demands it.
[04:33] SE: Yes. But, the point of me sending that over was to just point out, there are some people more than willing to do plotty developmental things.
[04:33] AA: But I never finished:
[04:34] AA: ( oh, you didn't need to defend that. I know.~ )
[04:34] SE: i like developing my characters a lot. putting them through bullshit. but usually that's one on one.
[04:35] AA: The fact that CR says "They RP to explore their own characters more" is genuinely laughable to me. If you wrote the person, you should have their core understood /off hand/. I sure as shit didn't come in to "explore Amara". I came to see /your/ characters, their lives and agendas, and the consequences of those drives in near proximity.
[04:35] SE: Character development is important. And that's what people are doing.
[04:36] AA: When someone who wants to police the spread of SBURB is caught in the same place as someone who intentionally saves sessions without a creed or concern besides the fact that they are losing . . . are caught in the same room?
[04:36] AA: Interesting shit happens.
[04:36] AA: Character development I get though.
[04:36] AA: Their phrasing just made it sound so . . . well, self-centric. Not in a "I'm the best" way but in a "All that matters is what I've put on the board".
[04:37] AA: But maybe I'm different, overly focused on being a compliment.
[04:37] AA: Because I am. Like I said, as much as I like the stage I never want to be in the center.
[04:37] SE: i don't mind being the center. occasionally. in other memos it was always my guy orchastrating shit.
[04:38] SE: sadly, i got too much shit for being OP and attention whore-y
[04:38] SE: so i quit doing that c':
[04:39] AA: If you knew how much I empathized with that, you'd call it out of character given my cold and detached norms.
[04:39] AA: Remember, Ursula was a thing before Amara. I RP'd all that shit. Being the center of most conflicts was half of my defining data OoC.
[04:39] AA: And it didn't disappear after I started writing more villains.
[04:39] SE: I could orchastrate more, but I have this very big, solid rule, that i refuse to have my characters interact.
[04:40] SE: ...
[04:40] SE: i can't spell
[04:40] SE: anyways
[04:40] AA: You said the people here would like Amara's brother more, being a guy who was bitchy instead of a chick. But there's a bit that's left out:
[04:40] AA: Not only is he more aggressive, infinitely more petty, and a bully.
[04:40] AA: But he has more powers. And more unrivaled powers.
[04:40] AA: He has powers that are redundant, from seperate sources.
[04:40] AA: He's been my mental image of a monster for ages.
[04:40] AA: Allow me to be brief:
[04:41] AA: Without Aspects:
[04:42] AA: Alternian Insight, Concentrated Heat Projection, Darkvision, Immunity to Electricity, Immunity to Poison, Super-resist Fire/Acid/Cold, Telepathy, Darkvision, Immunity to Sleep, Immunity to Paralysis,
[04:42] AA: Notice how Darkvision is in there twice.
[04:42] SE: How does he have all of that.
[04:42] AA: He, off hand, has an almost complete memo---
[04:43] AA: He's a bit of a soul eater. He doesn't (always) take it all, but when he does he gets their memories and understandings: pretty much anything that was a power confined to a physical source. But sometimes he even got /that/ with a derivative mutation.
[04:43] AA: He stopped looking human after a while.
[04:43] AA: Two dragons, a demon, a new body made himself, and twelve God Tier's later . . .
[04:44] AA: Hell, some of his /weapons/ have lists of powers.
[04:45] -- Alpha [AA] [[ Typo: not confined. ]] --
[04:46] AA: Actually, you know one of his victims!
[04:46] SE: :T soul eating
[04:46] AA: Lawkan's Operator was the person he got the Light Aspect from! But he /actually/ couldn't win that fight. He made a deal, and by proxy Lawkan died but he didn't know that would happen.
[04:46] AA: He didn't help either, but still.
[04:46] AA: So not completely unstoppable.
[04:47] AA: But no. A /hell no/ in fact
[04:47] AA: I skipped over his prompt entirely when I saw the first few line from this memo.
[04:47] AA: He does have one of my favorite powers though, the opposite of what Megaman does:
[04:48] AA: He can share all the powers he has with someone for X amount of time, physical or otherwise.
[04:48] SE: lord
[04:48] SE: lol
[04:48] AA: It was one of his intentionally ironic fraymotifs from the game because at onset he had /no/ powers.
[04:48] AA: That was the point. He was a dumb kid and was supposed to consider it useless. He did.
[04:48] SE: I've made some really quesitonable characters tbh.
[04:49] AA: I'd never believe really.
[04:49] SE: Reseph can control multiple elements based on emotion. Caezil had wings xenotransplanted onto his back.
[04:49] AA: But what you lot consider to be a death sentence I call Tues--
[04:49] AA: That's not questionable at all.
[04:50] AA: That's a physical change on a whim and some less-than-avatar nonsense. I have a person who is a martial artist and a geomancer. He doesn't have a mastery of every element, but he sure as shit got close.
[04:50] AA: He is basically an aggressive Avatar.
[04:50] AA: And he knows it.
[04:50] AA: Proud, haughty, competitive, spiteful, and be littling.
[04:50] SE: :T i get shit from everyone
[04:50] SE: i got soooo so soso much shit for caezil
[04:50] SE: "that's not possible"
[04:50] SE: i literally looked the science up on all of it
[04:50] AA: You shouldn't. They weren't "born with wings". And mroe over, on Alternia having Insectoid Wings is something to aspire to.
[04:51] AA: It's lining up with their mental image of deification when the God Tier status is reached.
[04:51] AA: So that's like . . . a normal thought.
[04:51] AA: FURTHER MORE
[04:51] AA: In the history of the planet, a key and prominent figure has wings.
[04:51] AA: People tend to remember that.
[04:51] AA: Envy it even.
[04:51] AA: No. You're fucking fine.
[04:52] AA: They /sought/ those wings and got them. There's nothing sketchy about it.
[04:52] AA: My Black Blood Alternian is the exact fucking same (cerulean by birth, mind you).
[04:52] AA: They were no different at start and made different life choices.
[04:52] SE: they're not insect wings. which makes me kek.
[04:52] AA: I think I remember you showing me them, no they are not.
[04:52] AA: Which should have made it even more obvious to them.
[04:53] AA: But thee guys don't seem to think "What's the story that can make this okay?" as quick as "This is wrong and I'm angry.".
[05:01] AA: I'd come in right now, but I imagine it'd be hard to make any serious head-way. Not quite the crowd of non-loungers. And my lot are too focused for such.
[05:03] SE: honey is a non-lounger :o